Versus the gameplay so how does the game play is gameplay art versus our games art and how do those 2 separate and we discussed. The other arguments that Myers provides regarding these topics from other professors researchers art historians accept and how there's a don't delineation between intent and the oppositional nature of games and additionally games of sports so covered a lot last week this week we'll also be talking about another researcher or another academic of games that being the research horse or. Horse h h j o r t h I'm not sure if that h. Is silent or if it's fully pronounced not exactly sure but that's her name and we're going to be discussing her arguments regarding games as unique cultural entities determined by the specific place and time in which gaming cultures originate from. It's it's a very nuanced argument and very much differs from the way in which we have discussed games up until this point given that I have always discussed games within a global context so when I am when I talk about games I've talked about games the history of games the development of games all within a global context not necessarily focused on particular countries or particular. Subsets of gaming culture which develop in particular countries and how that dominates and differs from other countries based on the unique culture economy government except per each country I've always discussed it in a global sense. The one exception being when we talk about the specific laws governing games and the politics of games but that is something we talked about earlier and that doesn't really dive into or never really elucidated to me at least how games and the way that people interact with games differ and are uniquely defined by their this society in which they exist and if that makes sense so where you are in the world can definitely defer the way in which you interact with video games I mean on the surface the concept itself is not very complex a given that different civilizations across the world interact with all things differently so it shouldn't come as much of a stock to hear that individual come countries and cultures interact with videogames in their own unique ways. Yet games themselves have always been a global phenomenon especially in recent decades given the technological advancements and. Made in regards to computers computing processing graphics exciter a and how those technological developments impact games and the inherent tying of the development of games to technological for the Elegy is a very obvious point but when we talk about. Games specifically in various countries it may have never fully elucidated that so we'll be talking about the risks is or Professor horse argument and specifically as it relates to 2 countries which. Have become basically the global paragons of games if you will it's a very grandiose imagery very grandiose terminology to describe these countries but in many ways gaming as a socially acceptable activity or as an activity that is widely supported by the culture and has been integrated into the society itself has not really been replicated yet but except by these 2 countries I think that we America are on our way to getting closer to the ways in which these countries interact within view games so in many ways when me talk about the culture of these 2 countries we might be looking at the future of America and how we as Americans will interact with games in the future. And the 2 countries in question which we're going to be discussing are South Korea and Japan and the various ways in which they differ in their relations in their relation to games so how they differ and how that relates to their relation to games and then simultaneously talking about which one I think the United States is closer to and which one I think we're going to develop into or the way in which we interact with game culture will develop into or the 3rd option of course being that the United States is culture in relation to games will be completely unique and independent of these 2 countries will see so the main argument that Professor horse Jorth scribes is online gaming. Versus electronic individual ism. So she delineates. South Korea as being a society which involves games in a. Co-operative public way whereas Japan and their interactions with games are more closely focused or more closely associated with the individual and the personal and her argument discusses. How the these 2 kind of conceptions came about and why we see them in these particular societies so what I'm going to do is kind of give us side by side the way she describes it in the text because this argument comes from her book I guess I should mention that from the start it's called games and gaming is just games and gaming a discussion and look into new media so this argument comes from her text which I've read the way she lays out her argument is she 1st talks about Japan and then Korea what I'm going to do is do it simultaneously so I'll bring up a point for Japan and then tell you how that is different from Korea or vice versa Korea and to Japan and. Hopefully to to elucidate or allow you to understand the argument in the same way that I have understood it and give you this awareness that the professor really brought brought to me to my attention regarding vocal populations and their relation to games and how they differ Ok so when we talk about the history of games in Japan we have to understand that Japan itself has always been a leader in technological and industrial development following the 2nd World War So following the 2nd World War Japan was a country very much focused on technological development and increasing the. Technological abilities of computers processors t.v. Xix cetera phones whatever whatever aspect of life that existed Japan passed the World War 2 following World War 21950 s. And onward maybe even 1000 sixty's and seventy's 167 is going to really picks up but following World War 2 We see this period and which depend as a country as a nation devotes itself to the technological development of all aspects of its life or the lives of its citizens now along with that comes the development of games and games technology now given that Japan and now you know with this national spirit Japan of course becomes a leading developer of technologies globally and as such becomes a leading export or of technology globally and as a you know refers to us as people who are interested in studying games Japan became a major exporter of both hardware and software regarding games major export or this differs from the history as it relates to Korea and then for Korea their journey with games doesn't really began in till the late 1990 s. Because in the 1950 s. You has the Korean War And then long into the 1980 s. Seventy's seventy's and then eighty's Korea does not and by the way when I say Korea I mean South Korea none of this applies to North Korea not at all just South Korea just to be clear when I refer to Korea South Korea or Korea. After the 1980 s. Is still very much considered a developing nation it is not the technological giant that we see today very much existing within the shadow of Japan in regards to games and were in regards to technological development as were most nations within the. Oil as I guess the Indochinese region Korea Vietnam Laos Cambodia Thailand very much in that same region all developing nations at the time very much in the shadow of Japan at this point it only really begins in the 1990 s. After a financial crash that Korea and the Korean government devotes itself to technological development investment as being the method by which they could jump start the crumbling economy and. The infrastructure of their nation as a whole so a big delineation here and that Japan's journey with games and technology really begins in 1970 s. In the 1970 s. And they stand out as an innovator on the cutting edge of games and as a result become an export or Korea really experiences games in the 1990 s. Where much technological change and growth regarding games has already been achieved by Japan by America. In this particular field and. Korea itself doesn't but it was interesting mostly is that it doesn't invest in hardware and software because why would you ever this is like economics here a little bit of economics why would you ever start or attempt to produce a good in which you are already at a disadvantage. So from the Korean expected perfect perspective why would we ever try to compete with Japan when they already have so much of an edge on us what they did instead was focus on something new in the late 1990 s. That being the Internet and Internet connectivity so by the early 2000 Korea had one of the most robust wireless networks in the world within its country so another big point. Of delineation that begins to shape everything is Japan's focus on hardware and software and Korea's focus on Internet and connectivity between computers from this. We really begin to see the burgeoning of online gaming focus on online gaming and Internet connectivity versus the electronic individual isn't exemplified by Japan beginning here with an investment in Internet resident investment in hardware and software this these developments change the way in which the regular citizen of the particular countries interact with games given that the people we're going start with Japan the people in Japan the citizens of Japan being at the cutting edge of technological development were always had this expression of themselves as a technologically advanced nation always at the cutting edge always having the best in games technology given that there is a wide adoption of mobile technologies so mobile phones p.s.p. S d s intended e s. . Various consuls which lend themselves to mobility now you would think that mobile games lending themselves to mobility would mean that the Japanese would be more inclined to a public perception or a public acceptance or Republican veiling of games themselves a an expression of games within the public sphere with outside of the home not in a domestic space but in a public space but actually 10 and had the opposite effect whereby the only way to express oneself was through a personalized experience. How does this make any sense so if everybody is gaming and has the best technology and how do you delineate yourself from as someone who enjoys games and plays games from somebody else who has the exact same technologies and things that you have let's say a new technology or a new phone is coming out it would be expected within Japan that you would have such a technology within a certain timeframe this was mostly seen with the development of the mobile phone. By the time the mobile phone came out or you know i Phones things like that a form of technology which could sustain games on a mobile level allowing games to be played publicly and openly over 80 percent of Japanese citizens were subscribed to and owned a cell or a mobile phone with n years of its production. Because as a country that the find itself as being a leader in technology and exporter of hardware and software. Owning the most technologically advanced items was a matter of civic and national pride or understanding of oneself you do as a Japanese citizen would define yourself by the technology that you won't and the way in which you interact with it given that how do you delineate yourself now from other people who also have all the best new technologies how do you as an individual. Not within the collective express your own individuality and your sense of self given this alteration or change that we see within games in gaming within Japan and the way that they did this was reaching towards personalized experiences so mobile yet personalized most mobile games the Japanese people engaged with were actually done or actually engaged with inside a domestic sphere so most people would play mobile games so games that you could play on your phone or on a mobile consul that you could hold in your hands most people would engage with those items in their own home in a domestic sphere reaching for a personalized individual experience that does not exist inside of the collective Professor horse explains this argument again by discussing the or reiterate his argument or even fully leans into it when she discusses the idea of reclamation of games so in Japan being this exporter of games this technologically advanced nation. Giving out as technology is hardware and software is games to the world how do you take ownership of the things in which your country produces so she says that the retreat of games into the domestic sphere is a way of individual denizens of Japan reclaiming games as belonging to them as being personal and individual to them and here we have the existence or the expression of electronic individual ism despite the capacity to connect with or express games openly in a public sphere the reclamation of games to the Japanese citizen the individual creates the conception of electric individual as an electronic individual as I'm whereby individuals seek to engage with games primarily within the domestic sphere so let some summarize quick summary of everything we just went over regarding Japan as a export or and as a technologically advanced nation Japan's citizens then interact with games in a private personalized domestic. Interactive games in a personal domestic individual fashion despite having the capacity to do so publicly and openly those in Japan as a means of reclaiming games from the world as well as individually expressing their interests or likes in games would do so through interacting with. With the private sphere as expressing electronic individual ism. That's made mainly how we're going to or how the professor lays out and defines their argument moving to South Korea South Korea is known for having these massive rooms or structures filled with computers P.C.'s many now in the modern day well I guess it's a many of these rooms designed for people to play games openly and publicly. Together in a large public settings but many of these. That's how they existed by the early 2000 and now many of these also. Public p.c. Rooms are in for in the Korean translation of the term is called a bang b b a n g s plural bangs are Abang p.c. Bangs I guess you'd call them but the Korean term is not stated within the book they use the Roman eyes during which version so these p.c. Bangs are p.c. Rooms p.c. Floors really exist for the production and. Public play of games together collectively which is also interesting given that. We have discussed. The way in which Korea itself developed was primarily focused on Internet capacity broadband. Multiple computers being able to connect and talk to each other at the same time. Yet again ironically. Despite the ability to now to. The easier ability to express games within a domestic sphere yet still cooperatively So you know me and my friend were playing games at home we can still talk to interact with each other in game given that our internet is strong you know in this hypothetical analogy me and my friend are both in Korea but in the early 2000 and. Yet they chose. To express games interactive games and a public manner differing from electronic individual isn't very much the opposite of it expressing the idea of online games or online interaction through the open and explicit play of games I've said many times on the show that at this point Starcraft 2 is the official national sport of South Korea. And it didn't just get there by happenstance. The adoption of the wide or the wide use of this powerful Internet. Pull proliferated the dawning of these p.c. Rooms or p.c. Bangs in which multiple people can play games together openly and publicly became the norm within Korean society. In a way one of the reasons for this besides the technological aspects being the development of games prior to their own creation so by by there the 2000 is what I'm saying that technology and hardware produced by countries like the United States like Japan already existed and the way in which the Koreans adopted this is through their own use of Internet. Unlike Japan Korea never existed as an export or of games they existed at the at as a beneficiary as an as an importer of games from Japan from America not an end of a or but an adopter an adoption that is whole that has now at this point has been wholeheartedly accepted to the point in which Koreans a sigh can be considered one of the most technologically advanced societies on the planet especially given their interactions with games games being their national sport these p.c. Bangs evolving into d.v.d. Bangs or various other. Public and open expressions of technology people watching movies together publicly people playing games together publicly video games together publicly all these expressions of. Technology as an Enter cool part of their society is something that the book defines as techno nationalism Korean society wanted to remove the label that their country had been given as a developing nation. You know from the destruction of the Korean War internal political instability the economic crash that the country suffered in 1907 they wanted to remove this stigma. And move into the modern world being understood as a technologically advanced nation as someone who provides the best for its citizens and one which is on the cutting edge of modernity. Like on the at the same scale of the United States urge upin or you know in England in Germany things like that and today they have realized that goal and they did it through. The the adoption as I said as importing these technologies these ideas these concepts from a Japan from a Korea or from a from an America. By becoming just taking a quick note here by becoming this nation that prioritizes modernization and technology techno nationalism technology as nationalism our adoption of technology defines us as Koreans sets us apart from other peoples from other nations we are the country of technology we are the country of modernity we are at the cutting edge this is who we are. Very much the opposite of what we discussed when we talked about Japan and we talked about Japan that was a reclamation of games being an export or being one who gives to the world existing on that cutting edge made it hard for one to define or delineate. Oneself as an individual from other individuals within Japanese society. Hence the turning inward not outward the turning inward of oneself towards a private personalized domestic experience which is different which wholly differs from the Korean approach to games which is focused on this public expression of technological development and technological fidelity playing games together in a social setting openly and publicly expressing our advanced Mint our technological strengths as a nation our whole hearted option as a people of what it means to be modern and what it means to be on the cutting edge of technology and what it means to be a developed quote unquote 1st world nation. And these are the main ways in which the 2 nations delineated from each other online gaming versus electronic individual ism and how the 2 differed from each other. Given that how do we. Perceive ourselves now as Americans and as moving on towards the American understanding of games and how does it differ from. The arguments presented in this book whereby Korean and Japanese societies differed so vastly from each other where it is our own personal destiny I guess you could say regarding games. Why or how it developed over time or how has it scuse me how has had developed a been till this point it's a difficult difficult question to answer or at least looking at where we stand now are we more inclined towards online gaming are we more moving towards a South Korea or are we as a nation more intrinsic Lee focused on or drifting towards electronic individual isn't as seen with Japan it's a very difficult thing to break down or stand Firstly just because of the demographics of our nation the unique position in which America finds itself. Because as we've seen the governmental political and national understanding of oneself greatly alters or at least Professor yours argues greatly alters or defines the way in which we interact with and change our perception of games and the way we interact with games given that where do we as Americans stand or exist or where we going towards demographically already presents an interesting challenge because unlike Japanese and Koreans a society America is not a modulus. The vast majority of people living in Japan are ethnically Japanese the vast majority of people living in Korea are ethnically Korean the vast amount of people in Japan speak Japanese the vast amount of people living in Korea speak Korean This is not true for the United States yes of course the vast majority of people in the United States speak English but there are major points major areas and which other spoken languages represent a powerful minority or at least a or in some cases even a majority depending on how specific you get the this is also true in terms of wealth disparity of course people in Japan and of course people in Korea have wealth disparities every developing nation every nation with a late stage capitalist system will inevitably develop vast wealth disparities given generational wealth and the continued expansion of companies which exist for generations upon generations and then become too big to fail becoming integral parts of the economy which can no longer AIG and which the economy can no longer exist if the companies or some of these key companies didn't exist. What would happen if Microsoft or Google just went bankrupt out of nowhere How would I would would occur our country fill that void like Amazon which has gone into places like 3 or 4 smaller other companies how would they 3 or 4 smaller other companies fill the void by the you know secure strong margin is coming in that was Amazon it's very hard to tell very hard now but the economic disparity within a country such as Korea and Japan is less than that of America mostly because America is so great that we have so many billionaires and millionaires that there isn't evidently going to be a large wealth disparity I'm not dismissing that I'm not saying or I'm not speaking in favor of or against wealth disparities I'm just simply pointing out the reality of wealth disparity exists and is even greater than that of a Japan or a Korea given America's propensity to create millionaires and billionaires but additionally are just population number you know 350000000 people or something you have that many people it's going to have some impact or have some differences. All right so given that where do I see our nation in particular going which route do I think that America's going to take I think currently we're moving ever closer towards the Korean model and I think other European nations are doing the same I think that that is the inevitable future for Americans but I think it's going to take much longer than a Korea did I think that right now we exist in a space between electronic individual is an ongoing gaming I think we as Americans exist. Between the 2 but a leaning towards online gaming or the public perception and understanding of games in a public fashion or manner in the same way it is in Korea but I think it's going to take a lot lot longer for us to get there 1st and foremost of course being the national spirit of America America is a country of individuals and we place our emphasis on the individual America the American dream is all about making your own way you as an individual striving for greatness reaching you know picking yourself up by your bootstraps with nothing in making something for yourself which doesn't lend itself towards the public communal expression of games that of course lends itself towards more economic or sorry electronic individual ism whereby each individual defines themselves by the games they play in the way they interact with games. So national spirit is a roadblock Secondly Likewise talk about wealth disparity it's going to be difficult those without the means to experience games will be left out of the social experience of the social burgeoning of games as a public event a public understanding of games those without the means are simply cannot exist in the same space as those with the means to afford a computer afford a phone a Ford accent or a and as I already stated the wealth disparity is much vaster than in Korea so that is another roadblock now I already talked about national spirit and national identity within the idea of individuals as m but also the concept of. Development and growth the Korean mass adoption of technology was brought about through something we talked about as techno nationalism whereby they define themselves as being on the cutting edge as being a modern nation shedding the past conceptions of them as being backwards or developing or just not on the same level as in America or Japan you know just a picking themselves up from their colonial past as it were historically but the attempt to shed that was the mass adoption of modernity and technology and through that the mass adoption of games as a public expression of that concept of techno nationalism America doesn't have that same national identity America perceives self some American there's a big disparity in that too it's very easy to convince people of a nation that is very small and very homogenous we're all in the Korean that we as Koreans are technologically developed technologically modern It's very easy to convince a citizenry like that to alter their national perceptions of who they are now I'm not saying it's easy I'm just saying it's easier than to do it from a diverse linguistically ethnically Montero e population like the United States is very much becomes more difficult the more differences that exist in a society to alter the the national spirit I guess you could say and the national spirit and what America represents for you will greatly differ depending on your place in society and how you view America some people say you know America is the greatest country there ever was no country is better. Than ours other people say America is a truly evil horrible place and some exist in the middle saying you know America's great or America is a fun and. Amazing place to live yet it could be better I don't want to fundamentally change the system I just want to improve it versus people who say we have to burn everything to the ground the entire system is corrupt the cork cetera et cetera and you have the on the other side of that is the deep lever's America's Great America has always been great we only exist to make it better than it already is very different conceptions of the national identity and the national spirit. Which make it difficult to change or alter our societal conceptions However given that. I think I'm I'm of the opinion. That games as a cultural medium of one that continues to expand technologically and has a vast subscribership I guess you could say vast amount of people who interact with games I only see it becoming more and more ubiquitous with in American society the means to play an interactive games are becoming cheaper and cheaper literally owning a phone typically has the capacity to run mobile games which is some form of gaming it's talked about this before previously mobile games are still games also the rise of the sports. Whether or not you consider a sport or not cannot dismiss the popularity. That there garnering and the widespread acceptance there garnering from American youth and America more generally I talked about earlier than on previous shows how over 70 percent of Americans play or interact with games in some capacity than another discussion I talk about American adults interacting with games on a thing more than 50 percent of them and some level so I see it as inevitable that if the technology increases or as more younger generations grow up understanding games playing games at the technological Fidelity it is now and only as it increases the future games and the level of escapism Newsom those games will lose a day for us the individual I can only guess I can only hope it will improve from here on out but I only see it as a as a couple steps away we're not there yet it's very hard to estimate I was trying to think of like well how many years you think we are away like you have and I was being interviewed by someone and they were asking how well given that opinion how long do you think we are from looking like a Korea and that is a incredibly difficult question to answer because we don't have massive p.c. Spaces we don't have a lot of the full integration of technology like Koreans do we haven't adopted that mentality yet and I don't know when we will or if we ever will it's just that instead of that it will be a slow burn towards people who have interacted with games at this particular level in coming generations with this new perception of games slowly. Replacing the old that will see this change. It's possible I mean if I know that people have heard about parents who give their children and i Pad and give them games. Playing games from 3 or from 2 well impact how you view games when you know you're 151620 then how you perceive the sports and social expression of games and games within the public sphere so I think we're well on our way to give it like 20 or 30 years maybe there's no way to really know I just think that we're on our way towards that. Same style but I think also it'll be unique in the same way that Japan is new and their expression of games is uniquely Japanese and Koreans expression of games is current uniquely Korean I think America's interaction and expression games will be in a uniquely American. What form that takes. Is hard to know hard to say very difficult to predict you probably know a lot of research gather a lot of dated conduct a lot of interviews but and even then you still might not have any real idea about how it will change over time but I think you could give us a good core clear understanding of how we are slowly making our way towards that. I guess we'll do a quick recap of everything that we've talked about so far so the ideas of online gaming verses. Electronic individual is I'm trying to kinda vigils them as expressed by Japan given the fact that throughout the 1970 s. In the or yes throughout the post World War 2 primarily during the 1960 s. $970.00 s. Japan was at the cutting edge of technological developments in terms of hardware and software to the point in which they became a global exporter of the 2 and therefore turned inward and adopted a pa private the Mest Dick individual expression of games and do that fact most Japanese interactive games on a private level this differs from Korea which has a post the destruction of the poster colonial past and the widespread destruction caused by the Korean War. Coupled with an economic collapse in 1907 Korea has attempted to redefine itself as a technologically modern state which expresses their technological fidelity openly and publicly expressing to everyone and the world what it means to be Korean and being Korean means being taken logically advanced being at the cutting edge and being proud of that fact no longer being a developing nation but being a developed nation being part of the club so to speak with the Japan's with the Americas with the Britons Germany's French cetera being at the same level as them back came to define Korean interactions with games hence games became very public you have the development of so-called p.c. Bangs these vast complex is filled with P.C.'s and computers in which people interact socially together in a public and open expression of their technology through games. And in regards to America I think we're on the same path however I think that our development or evolution end to that type of society will only really come to bear or come to fruition over time given the vast diversity economically politically as an equally linguistically given all of our differences which are not a bad thing and in many ways there are strengths what makes America unique whole the unique country when comparison to the rest of the world in terms of pure diversity well however impact of the ways in which we develop new national imaginaries how we as Americans define ourselves differs wildly as I stated earlier between die hards who say America is the greatest country of all time people who say that America is the worst country of all time deeply racist to its core deeply corrupt and those in the middle lose stay the that America is a country which just needs to be reformed and changed slightly either one way or the other either it was great and now needs to be fixed or is terrible but it can still be redeemed very different opinions based on where you stand on this particular spectrum. So that's those are the major expressions of Professor source argument and you can find more fair work in games in gaming very good books very interesting book a lot easier than to read than Professor Myers book which is much more conceptual much more argumentative brings in a lot more focused and historians in art historians who are really or even philosophers which focus on the core of the issue. Understanding what games are and their relation to art rather than what games you know represent So next week we'll be talking about another professor nother argument regarding games don't know who that is yet but I'm sure it will be just as exciting and just as interesting as the examples we've already discussed when talking about Professor Myers now Professor source r us thanks everybody so much for watching Stay tuned for even better even even more interesting content and shows here on k.c. 88.9 f.m. In Irvine Stay tuned for more great stuff thanks everybody so much for listening. 'd 'd 'd 'd 'd You're listening to k. You see I 88.9 f.m. In Irvine California the views on this show are not necessarily the views of u.c.i. K. You say are the border regions to learn more about our programs log on to k u c I or my name is and this is Operation Community stimulus you can always reach me through my website which is Operation Community stimulus dot com Please feel free to reach out with any information any suggestions that you might have we have with us here is some information that we're going to share with listeners from a program in Mission v.a. How Kevin Hurley started a program called girls in the garage and it's a unique one of a kind program that I think you all of you girls are going to want to get involved in especially there at u.c. I thank heaven thank you very much for inviting me over this is great we think so also. Well I think your program is very very great Tell us a little bit about how did girls in the garage 1st of all what do you guys do there well 1st. Of all a repair shop for the better part of 30 years and we're located in a Mission Viejo It's called Mission Vo transmission and auto repair and we just over time have catered to you know a lot of people don't know a lot about their cars you know a lot of people are coming in and don't know what's what's good about it what's bad about it what they do have to do to maintain it so we kind of started an educational. Program which came about a little crazy but we do it once a month now and the 1st Wednesday night of every month and we it's from $5.00 to 8 pm and what we do is we cater to women only at this time we don't allow guys to even come in at all so that's funny that all over all of our mechanics are. Basically the certified techs or the teachers and we let women come in and learn more about doing maintenance on their cars you know I have to thank you for inviting me last Wednesday that wasn't last Monday but the 1st Wednesday of this month I was like very very very impressed with the whole Your place is very clean by the way Ok that's what we heard. You know we just recently expanded we went from we went from 4 lives to 15 and when we when we made the expansion we really concentrate on making the place beautiful it's probably the most beautiful already pear shop around and it's funny because one of the events we.