To resign the Iraqi president made the announcement along with sweeping changes he's proposing to diffuse protests that have swept the capital and across southern Iraq N.P.R.'s Jane Erath has more from Baghdad President Barham Saleh announced that Prime Minister addle Abdel Matty had agreed to step down the president promised early elections political reforms that would include young people and faster investigations into politicians accused of corruption and he expressed sorrow for the more than $200.00 protesters who have been killed by security forces since the protests began in early October what's unclear though is when the prime minister will step down who will succeed him and when elections would be held protests were expected to grow on Friday the start of the weekend here and it's not clear these promises will diffuse them turn around for n.p.r. News Baghdad u.s. Stocks are trading lower this hour the Dow is down $214.00 points since the open or 3 quarters of a percent at $26971.00 this is n.p.r. News. She called to students and teachers in the nation's 3rd largest school district are looking at making up nearly 2 weeks worth of work everything ground to a halt this month during the teachers' strike over pay class sizes another union issues the labor dispute prompted officials to scrap s.c.t. And testing dates yesterday the Chicago teachers union voted to approve a tentative contract agreement with the city but it's refusing to end the strike unless mayor Laurie Lightfoot add school days to make up for lost class time life it says that demand is a quote nonstarter. The boards of fear Chrysler and pujo have agreed to a merger valued at nearly $50000000000.00 N.P.R.'s Sylvia Poggioli reports the deal would create the world's 4th largest automaker with an eye to are producing more electric vehicles the new company would have $400000.00 employees worldwide f.c.a. And Joe said they expect to achieve the deal without any factory closures a major concern for unions in France and Italy the deal comes just months after f.c.s. Talks with automaker Renault collapsed following French government intervention the major reason for the merger auto experts say is the need to start producing electric cars in view of stricter European Union emissions standards that will go into effect in January the 2 companies believe that by combining their factories and know how they can tackle the large cost of investing in new technologies to make electric and autonomous cars Sylvia Poggioli n.p.r. News Rome the Dow is now down $221.00 points at $26965.00 this is n.p.r. Support for n.p.r. Comes from Fidelity Investments taking a personalized approach to helping clients grow preserve and manage their wealth learn more at the deli dot com slash wealth for deli brokerage services l.l.c. And Americans for the Arts at Americans for the Arts dot org. This is the takeaway I'm Tenzin of a guy with. Was with Washington d.c. Experienced a rare moment of unity Wednesday night the Nationals beat the Houston Astros in game 7 of the World Series giving the team its 1st major league baseball championship but on Capitol Hill the mood is decidedly less celebrate Tory. On this the A's are $232.00 The nays are $196.00 the resolution is adopted without objection the motion to reconsider is laid upon the table it's not fair to the president of the United States it's not fair valid representative and it's not fair to the American people this morning the House passed a resolution that sets up concrete rules from its impeachment inquiry and a vote that fell almost entirely along party lines the vote comes days after Lieutenant Colonel Alexander been testified to Congress about his concerns that President Trump pressured Ukrainian president Volodymyr Selenski to investigate Joe Biden even menace the top Ukraine expert on the National Security Council and he told House impeachment investigators that the White House memo of the July call between Trump and the Ukrainian president omitted key words and phrases. Times allies immediately started questioning bin man's loyalties and patriotism because his family fled Ukraine when he was 3 years old like many Jewish refugees living in the then Soviet republic here we have a u.s. National security official who is a advising you crane while working inside the White House apparently against the president's interest and usually they spoke in English has an affinity I think for Ukraine he speaks Ukraine and he came from a country and he wants to make sure they're safe and free I understand that that was Laura Ingram on Fox. News and former Representative Sean Duffy on c.n.n. The vin man isn't the 1st military official to be attacked by President Trump or his supporters since taking office the president has repeatedly lashed out against high ranking military members and veterans who publicly disagree with him including the late Senator John McCain at the same time current and former members of the military have become more vocal in their criticism of President Trump and his policy decisions for you in a debate over if and when military officials should break their code of silence today we'll take a look at morale in the military in the age of Trump. Joining me now are Missy Ryan a reporter at The Washington Post covering the Pentagon military issues and national security and William Arkin an Army veteran journalist and author of more than a dozen books on the military Missy William thanks for joining us thank you for having me William early in the trump of ministration and even when he was on the campaign trail President Trump praised the military he called them quote my generals he stacked his cabinet with career military officials why was he so attracted to a strong military presence initially Well I think that Trump and sax started his Can does a see as president being very critical of the generals he actually said negative things about Colin Powell and he said negative things about John McCain He glam bastid Obama's generals in fact as candidate he got away with criticizing the American military in a way that I would think a normal candidate might not get away then when he became president obviously reached into the ranks of the military retired military James Madison's secretary of defense John Kelly as secretary of Homeland Security Michael Flynn this is national security adviser but he soon grew weary of all of them or they grew weary of him Donald Trump doesn't have good relationships with anyone and it seems to me that the military is no exception I'm not sure I would actually argue that they are an exception there's lots of reasons why the military and Donald Trump are at loggerheads but I don't particularly think it means that the military is one thing or that there is bad morale within the military let's dig into a little bit of that missy to Williams point I mean this isn't the 1st time we've seen President Trump lash out at or criticize military members again we mentioned John McCain I recall thinking at that moment that I said this on c.n.n. That that was a turning point in his campaign and he's since I was elected. So why do you think the president Missy is so publicly alienated certain members of the military Well I think it's really a hallmark of Trump's presidency to lash out it whole array of individuals and members of the military and high profile retired and serve the officers just happened to be among them I don't see him especially singling out members of the military for criticism but what makes it unusual when he does is that you know there has been a code in American political life to some extent although there certainly are numerous exceptions that current and even Austin former military officers try to refrain from getting involved in partisan politics again there have been a lot of high profile exceptions to that but what Donald Trump is doing is seeming to like he does with so many other things sort of shrug off those norms and what you're seeing because of that and because of the policy actions he's taken because of his style because of his erratic policy pretty much for announcements you're seeing this tension within the ranks about whether or not military officers have a duty an ability to speak out when they disagree with the president and I think that that's that's the tension that you're seeing and the courage and the sort of former high profile military ranks but you know I think that at the end of the day most officers wealth knowledge that you know President Trump was the elected civilian leader and he's in the White House and he's the commander in chief so as long as it's not an order that is unlawful that members of the military have a duty to to carry out his orders William owes a building on that you mentioned earlier talking a little bit about morale a lot of the officials that are speaking up are either retired or high profile Well what's your sense of what morale is like on the ground I'm thinking with the military action that has happened in Syria and we still have troops in Afghanistan and beyond. Well it's important that the listeners understand that the military is not one thing there's a Washington military and then in many ways there's the rest of the military the people who serve in Washington and or who are in the fishbowl of political life are very different than those who are out there in the field then I think the military is fundamentally mission focused it's fundamentally process oriented and so the consistency to do the mission to soldier on to do it in a way that is following the rules and the and the operational plans you know that's not being really interrupted out there in the field and in a funny way in a week in which special operations forces killed Baghdadi the head of ISIS it shows that despite all of the turbulence that Donald Trump introduces in his Are we in Syria are we out of Syria and all of the process things that he violates the clandestine forces the special operations forces the intelligence forces continue to operate and that was the same even during the Obama administration so as far as I see it in my 40 years I look at the military and I say to myself yes there is a split between the Warriors and the non warriors and there is a split between the Washington military and the non Washington military and there are many who express alarm about Donald Trump but to tell you the truth what Barack Obama became president and he was talking about closing Guantanamo and getting out of Afghanistan and getting out of Iraq there were as many people who I heard who were saying that he was a menace to national security as I hear today about Donald Trump Missy I'm curious to get your thoughts on this because the president has been. Unconventional if you will and has broken protocol in many instances I'm thinking most recently his press conference on. On the killing of al Baghdadi you know it is a press conference when you compare that to the way President Obama announced the death of bin Laden you know in in less than 10 minutes I believe versus the press conference that many would describe as rambling full of fantasy there is no proof of the whimpering of that like a dog detail for example is the military cringing here when they see that the president is sort of breaking protocol by announcing things on Twitter by having open ended press conferences by sort of not following the traditional rules why I do very much agree with William when he says that it's hard to make generalizations about an organization that has more than a 1000000 active duty members and certainly there are things that Donald Trump has done for the military that are deeply appreciated starting with restoring a larger budget for the military than it's had in a while and you know that makes everybody happy in the Defense Department and the defense establishment but there are definitely a number of things that I think cause grave concern and I would start with as you said his style his policy pronouncements that sometimes you take 180 turns within days there is concern that that creates an appearance on reliability for America's partners and then the 2nd thing and I think even larger and more far far reaching within the ranks is the concern about what trumps attitudes are towards the countries that are America as traditional defense allies and this is when Trump questions the value of NATO when he suggests that the United States might not abide by Article 5 of NATO when he questions the need to keep forces and South Korea or Japan or Germany and more recently we saw this with the incident that you mentioned in Syria when he abruptly announced he was pulling u.s. Forces from from northern Syria the perception there of course was that the United States was a bad to be in Kerr. Dish Syrian forces that have been fighting alongside the United States against the Islamic state and so the idea that the United States number one is seen as a bad partner and number 2 actually might not be able to recruit partners that the whole counterterrorism strategy for example is predicated on working with other countries and subnational groups and said that those things are it's things that I think are at the core of these concerns that we're that we're seeing within the military also you mentioned recruitment Mysie I mean some of the critical recruits here are folks that are going to serve rank and file in the military and William you've written about the decline in those numbers and of course that's been happening for years not just under this administration but I wonder if you see some of the tensions that are playing out now between President Trump and military leaders at least the high profile ones the Washington military as you call them the sort of erratic behavior on pulling troops in and out and how he approaches foreign policy whether or not that will have any effect on recruitment efforts overall look Donald Trump has been extremely disruptive in American society and of course within the institutions and certainly one of the institutions that is both the most respected and polling and also the one that feels it is the flame keeper if you will with the traditions and the lineage is the u.s. Military the irony here at a time when the military is getting an increased budget at a time when the military is being given more leeway where the rules of engagement in military operations are being loosened by Donald Trump is that they can't make their recruitment goals and we're not talking about something which is very big the military needs about 100018 year olds every year in order to replenish its ranks and that of some I don't know $20000000.00 plus 18 to 24 year olds in American society. It can't not even attract 100000 people and that's because of a lot of reasons but the one that I think is most important is that America's youth is not behind the war on terrorism is not behind the American military and the American military as an institution is increasingly distanced from American society and so when I think about Donald Trump or I think about Barack Obama or I think about the future the real crisis is that the American public the American society is not with the American military the American military is increasingly an institution out on its own William Arkin Army veteran author and journalist and Missy Ryan reporter at The Washington Post thanks to you both for taking the time thank you thank you. For the central Arkansas library system and m r Chris with an encyclopedia of Arkansas minute Woodruff counties Anita Blackman wrote more than $1000.00 short stories and several novels including mysteries in the Had I but known school born in August in 19021 published her 1st short stories in 1922 under her married name Mrs Harry Pease Smith but she would publish her novels using her maiden name but Quinn's work was published in Love Story magazine Cupid's diary and Detective tales as well as in serialized versions in the Arkansas Democrat in Arkansas Gazette her 1st novel her private devil shocked many in her home town with its openness about sexual matters but she made her mark writing mysteries such as $930.00 seven's murder Allah Richelieu which opened with the sentence had I suspected the orgy of bloodshed upon which we were about to embark I should then and there in spite of my Balkan an arthritic knee have taken shrieking to my heels she died on February 23rd 1903 and is buried in Augustus Memorial Park Cemetery more visit encyclopedia of Arkansas dot net. This is the takeaway from w. N.y.c. N.p.r. I Public Radio International in collaboration with w g b h radio in Boston. This Tuesday marked one year since the 1st of 2 recent deadly crashes of the Boeing 737 Max aircraft fly in Air Flight 610 took off from Jakarta 12 minutes later it fell into the Java Sea killing all 189 people on board that in March and Ethiopian Airlines plane of the exact same model crashed shortly after taking off killing 157 people and this week Boeing c.e.o. Dennis mule Imber testified before the House and Senate committees for the 1st time and to questions about evidence of potential wrongdoing surrounding the crashes Here's Texas Senator Ted Cruz on Tuesday reading from a text exchange between 2 of Boeing's chief technical pilots. Mr Fortner So basically I'm lied to the regulators unknowingly justice and it wasn't a lie no one told us that was the case for Connor I'm leveling off at like 4000 feet 230 knots in the plane is trimming itself like crazy I'm like what for can are granted I suck at flying but even this was agreed Joining me now to discuss this week's testimony is Leslie Josephs airline reporter for c.n.n. Dot com Leslie welcome back to the show thank you so we just heard a clip from Mark Fortner a former chief technical pilot for Boeing who mentioned some alarming concerns over the 737 Max in that text exchange did he bring those concerns to the f.a.a. Well he was speaking with the f.a.a. The entire time and this is someone who was telling the f.a.a. Hey this system which is at the center by the way of both crashes it's been implicated as as the cause a malfunction regarding that system sync delete that system from manuals so pilots didn't even know that the system existed until after the Lion Air crash a year ago so let's remind folks about the concerns around the 737 Max we talked about that this control system and it's known as the m c a s relied on one sensor I am not an airline expert you are Explain this for us the m. Cast was put on these planes the 737 has been around since 1967 Anyone who's flown has probably flown on a 737 but wing has changed the design added layers of technology over the years and the 737 Max features these 2 very large fuel efficient engines which is a great sell for airlines but there were some concerns among its engineers that the plane could tip upwards which wouldn't when it's flying at certain speeds which can cause the plane to stall and that could be catastrophic So what Boeing did is that out of the system it's an automated flight system that would push the nose down automatically pilots didn't have to do anything if it got into that attitude what happened online error is that one of the sensors that feeds the system got incorrect data the plane was not going into a stall and the pilots were battling the system that pushed the nose of the plane down over and over again until it took one final thought of. So there was a document released this week as part of the hearings that show that a Boeing engineer did raise concerns about the 737 Max in 2015 what happened so this engineer was saying Are we sure we want to rely on one sensor Reese concerns 2015 is before over a year before the f.a.a. Approved the planes so there was some concern over to even do we want more redundancy and that's what lawmakers are now asking Boeing c.e.o. And another executive saying why didn't you put in more safeguards if you knew that this could be a concern that we have an answer to that yet they are saying we made a mistake this is lone burghs saying I'm sorry the victim's family member standing behind him saying We made an error. So there were other red flags paranoia that Boeing executives were aware of explain those for us so there have been complaints of one of the e-mails that surfaced was a complaint from a manager of the 737 program in 2800 June 2018 and believe this is months before the Lion Air crash saying the 737 plan is running at full speed my workers are tired they are exhausted I'm worried about quality and in one of the messages he even says I don't know if I want to put my family on a Boeing some that worried about it so then it's me Limburg said he he's sorry but beyond that is he taking any other responsibility for these crashes during the congressional here well earlier this month the board stripped him of his chairmanship he was chairman and c.e.o. There's going to be no bonuses this year Boeing has told us but he has resisted calls so far to resign and lawmaker said well why don't you resign and there have been countless criticisms from lawmakers during the hearings and saying well why don't you do more than that is he going to potentially be sued by any of the families I mean there are lawsuits ongoing right now and they're trying to settle Boeing has set aside $100000000.00 fund for families victims' families and also their communities but people said well you make more than $20000000.00 And that's what you're handing out but that amount that Boeing is setting aside is exclusive of what could come out of the litigation so what happens with the technology going forward I mean why hasn't the f.a.a. Been more aggressive in its oversight with Boeing in general when it comes to this technology Well part of the issue is that it was a decades long program that has existed where f.a.a. Centrally farms out certification tasks to Boeing and that's really under fire right now and this has been going on for so long it's how like a fox guarding the henhouse sort of that's some of the criticism and does the f.a.a. Greater oversight and the act at the time in the spring the acting head of the f.a.a. Said Well I mean the almost $2000000000.00 to do it and Ralph Nader who's grandniece was on the Ethiopian flight said so do it. So how important is the $737.00 Max to Boeing generally when it comes to profits the it's enormously important it's about 40 percent of Boeing's profits this is Boeing's future they have an order for they have orders of 4400 airplanes all over the world Boeing is banking on this airplane and it needs it to fly again so what Boeing is doing now is it's changing the software relying on 2 sensors instead of one of course lawmakers are saying well why didn't you do that in the 1st place what do they do going I mean what's coming next for Boeing well going forward they need the f.a.a. To sign off on these changes and so far they haven't done it I mean the f.a.a. Doesn't want to look like they're just rubber stamping everything there's a ton of scrutiny now on the f.a.a. So they're Boeing says that we're pretty much of the tail and we expect to get regulator approval sometime this quarter before the end of the year airplane airlines have taken the plane out of their schedules through the beginning of 2020 so we're not we're not sure when it's going to fly again Leslie Josephs is an airline reporter for c n.b.c. Dot com Thanks so much. Today's Here's to your health segment with Dr t. Glenn Pate is brought to you by the University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences we owe him Howard Taft the 27th president of the United States serving from 1909 to 1913 who's struggled with his weight throughout his life had a huge appetite and was clinically obese at just under 6 feet tall he weighed about 340 pounds when he left office he suffered from sleep apnea among other conditions that may have been caused or made worse by his weight Taff suffered a head injury at the age of 9 that resulted in an indentation in the school that he carried for life he had typhoid fever as a boy and he had an abdominal abscess and dysentery as well as several cases of food poisoning and heartburn while in office generally avoided smoking and alcohol but once he became president he developed gout the 1st president to own a car or calf was in car accidents in 1000 in 1921 but suffered only minor injuries he died of complications of heart disease and I blood pressure in 1934 here's your health Dr Teagle and pate support for here's to your health is provided by the University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences for a better state of health 3 teaching the state's health care professionals healing the sick and injured searching for new medical treatments and providing programs that reach into every corner of our state says that new A.M.'s health dot com. I'm taking a Vega and this is the take away in 2018 the u.s. National parks were visited more than 300000000 times and most of these guests when in hoping to connect with nature and enjoy the scenery and wildlife but a new plan from an advisory committee to the Interior Department has outlined proposals that critics say would dramatically change the face of our national parks by commercializing them if the proposal is passed we may see national parks with Wi-Fi and food trucks and drastically higher entrance fees the plan is just one example of the major policy changes the trumpet ministration has proposed through its interior department Jimmy Tobias a contributor for The Guardian and the nation has been following the shifts in the agency and I asked him to start by breaking down exactly what this department does the Interior Department is an incredibly powerful agency it employs roughly 70000 people it controls almost 500000000 acres of land across the country has about one 5th of the u.s. Landmass it manages vast reserves of oil and gas other precious minerals as well as the Outer Continental Shelf it runs dams across the west it's the prime in force of the Endangered Species Act And a recent federal study found that roughly a quarter of greenhouse gas emissions in the United States derive from fossil fuels that are drilled on federal land who's running the agency right now and where to many of the folks who work there come from the trouble ministration has stocked the agency with former lobbyists and conservative activists and ideologues you've got David Bernhardt the current interior secretary he's a former lobbyist for Big Ag and the oil and gas industry you've got his closest personal friend and Lieutenant assistant secretary Doug Dominick who came from a Koch brother funded think tank in Texas that fights environmental protections you've got William Perry. Pendley who is a long time conservative activist who has fought in the courts against protections for public lands he's now overseeing the agency's Bureau of Land Management So these are the sorts of folks that are there now people with deep long histories with industry and conservative activist groups now thanks to impart to your reporting here there are some members of the Interior Department that are under investigation from the inspector general's office what is that about the interior Armin's inspector general is investigating allegations against no fewer than 7 top officials at the agency mostly for ethical violations after they took office I'll give you an example assistant secretary Doug Dominick he used to work for this Koch brothers funded think tank in Texas as soon as he took office he started turning around and inviting his former employer into the agency butting them in touch with top officials providing them with access and that sort of activity is a pretty blatant violation of federal ethics rules there's been reporting recently that there was a proposal regarding the use of public lands and the idea of opening up those public lands to privatization tell us what that would do what does that exactly mean well among some quarters of the conservative movement there's long been a push to effectively privatized the public lands including national parks for instance there's a group in Montana called the property and Environment Research Center that advocates for raising user fees and turning parks over to private operators to run and this group and others like them have had constant access to the Interior Department during this administration and so the Interior Department has tried to adopt some of these policies very recently an advisory committee to the Interior Department put out a plan that would effectively privatized the parks and within the hands of private companies it was a proposal this plan that came out this summer recommended that the Park Service hand more campgrounds to private companies allow them to raise fees campgrounds. And I think effect what they want to do is turn our protected public parks more into Disney World or Universal Studios places where Kershaw will operators kind of run the show and everything seems to indicate that the leadership at the Interior Department is fully on board with that vision and we got to take a quick break and we'll be back this is the takeaway. And we're back this is the takeaway I'm Tenzin of AIG And we've been talking about the Interior Department and how it's been pushing to privatized national parks and the trumpet ministration and I've been talking with Jamie Tobias a contributor at The Guardian and the nation so to me it seems like raising the price of entry to $70.00 a car is which is what they're proposing would keep many families from being able to enjoy these parks and there are also concerns about whether or not the park land itself would be affected I mean if you put why fight in the park for example it could create noise pollution so how far along are these proposals and how much do you think the public is actually aware of these changes and their possible consequences I would say in general the public does not have a great enough awareness of the Interior Department how important it is there is a major push to expand wife across the parks that effort is largely being driven by telecom companies and their lobbyists the public does have input but this administration has explicitly sought to limit public and put it by kind of cracking down on provisions in the National Environmental Policy Act and other things like that that are meant to give the public in books they're also they've also gone after the Freedom of Information Act of sight to make it harder for the public to get information about the agency so there's there is some public awareness there is public involvement there should be public involvement but I fear that this administration and its critics certainly fear that this administration is doing everything it can to kind of remove the public from public lands how likely is it that this newest proposal will actually happen that there will be an increasing presence of private companies in public parks you know I would say that it's likely this administration the people they're inviting into the Interior Department to hear from are the major companies are representatives of these major companies they're the people whose voice is dominating the conversation and so you know it's definitely going to follow that Internet I do not believe has made up its mind about this specific proposal yet but you know all signs. All their past behavior would indicate that this is something they would be onboard with and he mentioned how broad the reach of the Interior Department is it is you know obviously at the center of a lot of the controversial decisions that the top administration has made regarding climate change what are some of the big issues there that our listeners should know about. The Interior Department under this administration has done everything it can to open up public lands to oil and gas drillers and other industries they've rolled back restrictions on methane pollution on public lands they've sought to open the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge and the Atlantic Ocean to oil and gas drilling they've removed protections from species like the sage grouse in order to promote or oil and gas drilling out West they have rolled back their Perhaps the most controversial decision was to roll back protections for 2 national monuments in southern Utah in what amounted to the largest rollback of protected public lands in American history that move took direct aim at one of our oldest conservation laws the Antiquities Act of $1006.00 they've opened up the lands around our one of our country's oldest wilderness areas to a foreign mining company I mean these it's been a consistent kind of drumbeat of policies like this and all the while top officials at the agency have held scores and scores of meetings with the oil and gas industry executives lobbyists the Interior Department at this point its critics contend is basically being run by and for industry groups what should people who are concerned about this be doing I mean these lands are probably the greatest accumulation of collective wealth in the world possibly and certainly in this country and there's a lot of very powerful people who understand that and want access to that and want it for themselves and so I think a lot of people look at national parks and think of that as sort of this egalitarian ideal at the you know our heart of our country's landscape you know and and so if people believe that then there's a lot of a lot they can do to protect these places so that they don't become prohibitively expensive. Of or ultimately private if future administrations are serious about transformative changes like the Green New Deal for example they'll need to come in and day one with a plan to change the direction of this agency and they'll need to come in and leverage the massive powers of the Interior Department to make the changes they want to seek and I do fear that the entire department is often you know under discussed but it is its impact on this country is enormous and that's something for everyone to understand give me Tobias is a contributing writer at The Guardian and a contributor at The Nation thanks so much for joining. And this is the takeaway the movement to decriminalize sex work has been getting a lot of national attention lately even presidential candidates have started taking a position on the controversial topic and a few states are proposing bills that could decriminalize some forms of sex trade Most recently though d.c. Leaders heard from both advocates and opponents of a bill that if passed would make the district the only u.s. Jurisdiction to decriminalize sex work outside of some counties in Nevada I asked and a north the senior reporter at Vox about all this starting with exactly what decriminalization actually means in practice people mean a few different things when they talk about decriminalization but typically sex workers rights advocates when they say about term they really mean decriminalizing both the selling and the buying of sex so we're talking really about repealing or changing laws against prostitution one thing that's important to note is that none of these decriminalization efforts would make it legal to solicit an underage person for sex or to do sex trafficking where someone is not consensually trafficked into sex work so when we think about the latest bill that's in d.c. Where does that bill stand right now and what it's specifically asking for so the bill had to hearing earlier this month which sort of put the issue into the news a little bit more currently the bills awaiting a vote it's not clear when or if it will it will get one but essentially that bill is asking for decriminalization of sex work within the district why d.c. Do we know is this the 1st time d.c. Has tried to make this push before d.c. Has tried to make this push at least once before it didn't work but it's not the only place in the country where this is being tried in New York has made efforts to do this there are bills proposed in Maine and Massachusetts and I believe all sorts or so really activists around the country are starting to push for this internationally have we seen efforts to do this yes so actually New Zealand did decriminalize. Work a few years back and removing her mental penalties around selling and buying and we have some research showing that in some ways conditions for sex workers did improve and New Zealand also found one concern that a lot of opponents of decriminalization have is that sex trafficking would increase New Zealand did not find that to be the case so let's talk a little bit about why this is happening now what's changed in the national conversation around sex work to make this these issues now part of policy you know that's a great question folks have told me that it's really part of larger social justice movements so things like black lives matter and even the women's March you know together a lot of these broad based social justice movements have really made people think about workers' rights gender justice racial justice economic justice all kind of together and that has raised interest in things like sex workers rights which a lot of people say is a gender justice and a racial justice and economic justice issue on the economic justice front I mean there are some folks who say this is going to lower the cost I mean if you if you make it if you decriminalize it more people can do it and it will ultimately lower the cost and the price for these services is that's something that people are thinking about or they thinking more about the safety and the workers involved so I think a primary driver of a lot of interest in decriminalization among sex workers and sex workers rights groups as has been around safety and also just sort of working conditions so right now with sex work being illegal people who do sex work are constantly exposed to police so that means potential for police violence it also means potential for us you could go to jail you could go to prison in some states you could pay a fine and then of course there's everything associated with being arrested so having a record having to go to court which might mean you missed school you missed childcare you can't pay your bills all these kinds of things sex workers say these are really interrupting their lives and having a real finance. Well as well as you know emotional and health and all sorts of costs to them and I think that's the primary driver around why they'd like to see this decriminalized So let's talk a little bit about the opposition to this because I think this is where is a place where a sex trafficking comes into the equation and I'd love if you could sort of explain how that connection is being made by opponents to the bill and if there are other things that people oppose when it comes to decriminalization you know I think there are a couple of things to note here one is that you know I found this to change a little over the years Also it used to be that there were a number of groups that really opposed really wanted it to remain illegal both to sell sex and to buy sex now you see much more broad agreement around that it should not be criminal to sell sex a lot of feminist groups say the same a lot of anti trafficking groups say the same a lot of people want to remove penalties on the selling of sex through the buying of stocks that remains the sticking point for a lot of people and I've seen 2 main objections one is this sort of more conceptual objections saying if we make it legal primarily for men to buy sex then we're saying it's Ok to put a price on someone's body often people in this context are often talking about women and they're saying that this sends a message that it's Ok to put a price on a woman's body another is the idea that if we decriminalize the buying of sex it will drive up demand and that will increase trafficking or that this in some way might make it harder to fight trafficking and so there are a variety of anti trafficking groups that have opposed the criminalization for that reason when we look at the anti sex trafficking groups have they gained any traction in opposing these bills you know there's been an interesting debate regarding this sort of trafficking piece of the sex workers rights advocates have sort of pushed back and said Well actually these bills make it easier to fight trafficking they say that the people who are most likely to know about trafficking are sex workers themselves that they're if they're working on the street or they're working somewhere they see someone who is not there of their own volition that they might be able to report. That but right now they can't because if they report anything to the cops they risk arrest so that's the response there but the anti trafficking groups certainly have have gotten attention and a lot of them were at the hearing earlier this month in d.c. Being very vocal about their position is there more reality opposition here are there people who are saying we just shouldn't do this because we're a Christian nation or this is anti woman or anti-man or anti american or anything like that or does that not even factor into the question anymore certainly there are plenty of groups who are against likes work whole cloth from a moral perspective I think you might see that come into play a little more of decriminalization efforts happen more in purple or red states right now we're seeing it in a lot of blue states and very blue cities within blue states and so it tends to be a debate between you know say feminist groups and anti trafficking advocates and sex workers rights advocates starts to happen you know in places where the political climate is different we're going to see a different argument and of course we can't let you go without asking a question about the presidential candidates 2025 any of them so far taken a stance on sex work this is actually been really fascinating to me as a reporter because I've covered this issue off and on for a long time and I didn't necessarily expect to see candidates take a position on this you know leading into the 2020 Alexion but in fact several haven't the positions haven't been very detailed but I will say that multiple candidates have said they're open to decriminalisation including Senators Warner and Sanders and Senator Harris and I believe Senator Booker also so a number of a number of the candidates in this race have actually said you know they haven't said here's my 10 point plan for decriminalisation not even Elizabeth Warren not even Elizabeth Warren but they have said they're open to it and in North senior reporter at Fox thank you for being with us thanks so much. Residents in California have been evacuated multiple times in recent years. Is. Going to be every year. Is the dream they had hoped for is that can unite all things considered from n.p.r. News. This is Tenzin of a guy and you're listening to the take away and we just talked about the movement to decriminalize sex work nationwide now we're going to get one sex workers perspective on those efforts Michael Jones is a black trans sex worker an advocate and the founder of the outlaw project as a young 21 year or who just moved out of their grandparents' house I was living in a studio apartment sleep mamak out and I thought I had and I met this guy at a bar and I was going to hook up with him anyways but offered money I was like well I can get paid for that is and I got into it from Brighton a matter tell us how you went from doing sex work and then how you expanded into advocacy work in the kind of work you do today I think it's a continuation because like sex work is work and how I got into it and to advocacy work a friend of mine says like well you're a really great person you should try counseling and what I heard was social work and so I got into social work but also I was like during the same time being a black trans woman realizing there's some serious issues with the way that the system our prices set up and felt that I shouldn't be arrested for just surviving in this world and especially and I rights work state and so became speaking about it then you said just recently you said sex work is work. It is why did you say that why do you think that was important distinction to me because I feel that people don't understand that. Sex work is one of the oldest profession and it's a legitimate form of work and it's recognized and several countries as a legitimate form award and here and us is not recognize and what happened is that people were being arrested and goes into it is a massive cost to ration system where in our bodies our profit. Because we're going to prison because we have to survive so you've had contact with law enforcement right you've been arrested in the past what have they been like for you generally. They were violence right and so like any time that any person has specially a black trans woman have an interaction with the polies there's a power dynamic there is mystery may happen and these issues impact trans women so like my interaction with the police Mr Jenner called a freak course system set up in a face where even if you're going to to fight the charges you are already presumed guilty and so the system is set up for you to plead guilty and is this revolving door out of the court systems in like especially in Arizona where we have a minimal jail sentence for your 1st offense is 15 days there are offenses 30 days then it goes up to a year in prison and so what's the long term effect of that contact with law enforcement of having essentially a criminal record right because that goes on your record the long term effect is like say if you want to get out of sex work and get a 9 to 5 job as anyone with say you can't because everyone looks at your background and like. I have a degree in social work and during my time I fill placement was really hard for me to find a fill placement because I'm my arrest and if people want to understand is that because you're arrested that means you can't really get a good job and being in a trans woman that means your options of jobs are very limited and even like hey I got a job at McDonald's are a fast food joint there on my face transformed sexual harassment and everything else and so sex work became like the best option for so many trans women and so many women and so many. Well let's talk a little bit about decriminalizing sex work and what the goals of that work are what are you hoping to achieve when you're fighting to decriminalize sex we're going to talk about sex trafficking and how that plays into it in just a moment for the company zation what we're really hoping for a long term goal is that is recognized as a legitimate form a word and that minimize the harm of being arrested and having to wear it or if you face violence from a client bar someone else you can go follow a police report and the polies will have to follow up and it's looked at as a legitimate form of work there are folks who also who want to push back against decriminalization and say that part of the reason why is because by making it not a crime that it might encourage people to get involved in sex work that it might move people to sex work rather than away from it does that matter should that matter Monica in your experience no it does not matter because like if you decriminalize it as a legit form of work and it is all the right to choose to work right I think people have the right to work and history are in the business that they choose and it should not be deterred. Heard because anyone. Spiritual are emotional belief about sex work in your personal experience and when you look at sex workers as a whole do you see differences in how law enforcement treats different kinds of sex workers for example being a black trans woman versus being a white woman I think that's society as a whole especially just like having your access to privileged right info though for you but totem pole the less violence you may experience as blacks times women being invisible and being black be in trans. Those are the things that impact us and that's what makes us more susceptible to violence one other thing that you know we think about when we think about decriminalizing is would it also open up avenues for health care without feeling like you're putting yourself in danger having access to adequate health care system is crucial but also have an agency of your own body right info like not being told when to be tested and I have the test forced upon you but I actually like and it's a good test that what we see a lot is that condoms are used as evidence to prove that someone was sex working and so that's basically like a street basic commie and would it make it easier for law enforcement to focus on things like sex trafficking if sex work were decriminalized in other words they wouldn't be looking for sex workers but they'd be able to work more closely with sex workers in identifying people who are doing this work against their own will Yeah I think who will know who traffic lines would know if someone is being trafficked they can say look hey I saw this girl and she looked like she was trafficked are saw this guy who looked like they were trafficked and so making sure that people are safe to come forward and identify trafficked victims and make sure that traffic victims can come forth without fear of being arrested are you hopeful that this is something that will happen at some point I mean as we know that the bill is making its way through Washington d.c. Right now yes because a lot of cities are going after the Crown and so I think that it's like this amazing thing where you might not see it in one city but you might see it in some other city hopefully that sex workers get recognized as work. Michael Jones is a black trans sex worker an advocate founder of the outlaws project. And that's our show for today and if you don't already make sure you follow us on Twitter at the takeaway you can find me at Tenzin Vega of course we're on Facebook and Instagram our team includes producers Ethan Oberman. Andress O'Hara. Rob Gunther Meg Dalton Jason to rest Lydia McMullan layered and Joseph Getty and Alexander is our senior producer who is our digital editor our tech team is Claire McKean Vince Fairchild and Jake aout they've played musical chairs at all the spots this week Jason Isaac Davis an assist as well David Gable is our great pumpkin and administrative assistant and leader how well is our in turn. Is our executive producer thank you so much for listening this and every week we hope you'll join us again next time I'm tending to Vega this is the take away and happy Halloween. Our public. And I had enough air be to know what was going on Brooklyn was like my mom warm and inviting and it had it was like my dad allusive very bipolar. Join us for more true stories told live this time adoption reconciliation and face that's the most Radio Hour from p.r.s. This Sunday at noon came way are 89 point one. Hello again why is that when 2 or 3 bands for the 2 bowling one of them comes the best so that's what we're going to explore in our next episode to hear familiar songs interpret in the funds and there are still 2 to go swing him down the line David No Friday night in case you weigh in on. This is $89.00 k USA Our Little Rock listener support service at the University of Arkansas at Little Rock. Funding for here and now comes from math works creators of Matlab and Simulink software accelerating the pace of engineering and science learn more at Mathworks dot com from n.p.r. And you are Boston I'm Jeremy Hobson And I'm Robin Young is here and now. Coming up the House passes a resolution formalizing the impeachment inquiry we'll have a conversation with Senator and presidential candidate Bernie Sanders who says impeachment is necessary when you have a person and. You think he's guilty of trucking of justice in many ways the House doesn't really have a choice also I mean the u.k. Where an election campaign is underway I'll speak with a member of parliament from Scotland about what she'll be telling voters there may see just made it clear we're going to stop breaks it we're going to stop borders joints and we want to give Scotland the date to choose a sort of future visit with 4 generations of my family in the u.k. Including my 93 year old grandmother coming up here in our news 1st. Live from n.p.r. News in Washington I'm Lakshmi saying the u.s. House is Democratic majority advances its investigation to President Donald Trump by voting today over Republican objections to formalize the next phase of impeachment proceedings the resolution lays out the ground rules for public hearings and procedures for trying to respond to evidence N.P.R.'s Asia Rosco reports on the White House's review White House advisor Kellyanne Conway says it's too late for Democrats to address the due process concerns raised by Republican lawmakers in the administration no they can't do anything that would make this investigation legitimate It was October 8th it's over 3 months ago later that the White House counsel to send a letter and said this is an unconstitutional illegitimate process Republicans argue for weeks that the impeachment investigation was a quote sham but because the house had Matt formally voted on the process they also objected to the closed door depositions Republicans were able to participate in those hearings if they were on the relevant committees ice Rosco in p.r. News the White House Members of Congress are investigating allegations a trump withheld u.s. Military aid to pressure Ukraine to investigate his potential 2020 rival Joe Biden while lawmakers continue to hear from more witnesses a top European policy official for the National Security Council corroborates other witnesses accounts of the Ukraine affair and a closed door deposition but stop short of characterizing transactions as improper or illegal Timothy Morrisson told House investigators that he was briefed about Trump's intent to lean on the government of Ukraine by his.