Users to subsidize solar customers. Now enter the Public Utilities commission. Which was tasked with coming up with a revised plan. In december the threeperson commission. Decided to cut the credits that solar customers get for their extra power. And charge them an increased service fee. On a four years. While proponents of this decision say it is fair for all involved. It has resulted in most Solar Companies. Large and small. Closing up shop in nevada. I want to stress when planning for this episode. I reached out to the Public Utilities commission. And nv energy. To try to get their perspectives on the decision. And find out more about their process and the Research Behind it. Both entities declined the invitation to come on the show. But the invitation stands. If and when they want to weigh in. Coming up on face the state. Ill sit down with the owner of a local solar company. To find out how this change in policy is affecting his business. Thats Arianna Bennett welcome back to face the state, im Arianna Bennett, thank you for staying with us. Well as i mentioned earlier Rooftop Solar Companies all over nevada are calling it quits after the change in net metering and service charges. Well hamilton solar based right here in reno is one of those companies. Reid hamilton, founder of hamilton solar, is here now with me to talk about that. Reid thank you so much for coming on the show. Reid hamilton hey thanks for having us. Bennett okay so for those not familiar just tell us a little about hamilton solar and how long its been around . Hamilton sure so hamilton solar was founded out of my dads Development Company which had division which is a combination of both southern and northern nevada and that gonna impact about 30 of our employees. Bennett now was business, how was the solar climate in nevada prior to this decision . Hamilton for the first time in about 7 years we we were feeling really good about where solar was going both locally as well as federally. The 30 federal tax credit had just been extended for five years, we had a five year window for us in solar thats like the longest time weve ever seen. And so we were starting to celebrate. We could really strategically plan for the next couple of years. And then on december 23rd the puc ruled to essentially make solar not financially viable in the state of nevada anymore. Bennett just completely not viable at all . Hamilton yeah i mean so look i always tell you know solar is fantastic but people are going to go solar because its a really good financial investment. The Environmental Impact is the cherry on top and were grateful for that but with all the rulings that have happened as of late, it jus doesnt make Financial Sense anymore for people to go what i say residential or small commercial solar. Bennett with the deal as it was previously how much interest in hamilton i mean we were hiring and growing. We had Just Launched our vegas operation six months prior. We were doing some installs for some National Companies and we had a 300 home backlog which is humungous for us. Bennett wow. Hamilton yeah. Bennett and then what happened . Hamilton . Zero. I mean the National Companies pulled out, they stopped so obviously theyre not signing up any more and so we unfortunately had to you know wed signed a two year lease on a building down there and were negotiating how to find our best way to work out of that lease. And then up here like ive said weve been around for a long time and weve done the majority of the schools, the prisons, the a lot of the stuff that you see around town and well still be able to do commercial stuff but residential, what i call the Ripple Effect thats in our community its just its challenging for people to be able to justify why to do that right now with the term of the payback. Bennett now maybe you can explain a little bit better why that is. I guess when this said, gosh you know it seems like solar must have been kind of a fragile industry if this industry could completely kill it right away because it was immediate. I mean as soon as the decision was handed down we were Getting Press releases from companies saying well were closing up shop, were pulling out of nevada completely. So what is the price difference or the cost to customers thats causing them and causing you guys to call it quits on solar . Hamilton so thats the unfortunate thing. The cost were actually going in the right direction. Panel prices are coming down, were getting more efficient as an industry, were able to install at a much more affordable cost, okay . And so were moving in the right direction there. Unfortunately what nv energy or puc, i guess that i kind of mix those guys up right now, is what they did is they killed the value of net metering. So right now you pay approximately 10 cents a kilowatt hour for the energy that you purchase. When you add a solar system, you know predecember 23rd if you produced more energy than you used you would receive 10 cents a kilowatt hour. Now okay . So absolutely hammered there. And then theyre also charging a monthly fee. And we knew a monthly fee was going to be coming because other utilities across the state have started to charge a quote on quote a solar fee. And we get that right . Theres some parts of the grid that had been built out and we need to to factor in those costs. And we were anticipating maybe 3 to 5 dollars. Well at the end of the day its going to be about 38 dollars. Which like i said it just doesnt make sense. We have a handful of our employees who have solar systems. Obviously we work with them, create a great deal, they get to install solar, running the math on this its it makes more sense for them to unplug their solar system than to keep it plugged in because its going to cost them more money on that Monthly Service charge to have a solar system than to not. Bennett wow. So i guess that kind of eliminates the incentive part of the issue too right is that installing the solar ray or the panels on top of your house is a kind of expensive input cost and money back through savings correct . Hamilton absolutely. Like i said is the reason that the industry has grown so much, one is awareness right people are starting to realize its not just for rich people and hippies okay . But also its its gonna be somewhere between a 710 year payback maybe a 712 year payback and call it about a 10 irr. I used to tell people i said hey so long as the sun comes up youre going to get 10 irr. Go find that anywhere else. Especially in the stock market right now. I felt a lot of confidence saying that. Now its like so long as the sun comes up and the Public Utility Commission and nv energy dont hack you away youre going to get your return. So bennett so part of this is also kind of a ethical dilemma for you i would imagine. If someone would come to you now and say i want to put solar on my home, would you feel comfortable doing it . Hamilton no not at all. So we you know this came down on december 23rd was the first that this dramatic impact happened. And we were booked out until you know about springtime and we had were just hiring another crew, and we just said we have to stop. And we told our customers, look even if you wanted to go forward right now we cant, we cant do a system for you because we dont know what the impacts going to be. Hamilton because some of this is uncertainty too. I know i read in the in the decision that rates are also subject to change so its not like these are nailed down in perpetuity, this could be the case now and 5 years down the road they could change their minds and change to something thats worse or hamilton or maybe better right and thats the problem right now is theres no consistency and theres a dramatic loss of trust. You know heres a utility or a puc that for the last ten years is saying hey were the sunniest state in the nation or one of them, go solar, go solar, we support you. Oh shoot you guys are growing way too fast were going to stop you and not only are we going to stop you but all the 17,000 customers who have signed up guess what you dont get what you signed up for anymore. Cuz people are no longer grandfathered in. Is an effort to slow the growth of solar because thats not what the message is from the other side . Hamilton i would be i would love to know what the clear message is from the other side. To be honest its we theres no real strong rationale right and a lot of times the information that we hear is buried in 128 page dockets. Well and its its a bunch of you know pardon me for some of my frustration but its a bunch of attorney talk where its just like what does any of this mean . Right . And were in the industry and we cant quite figure it out. Bennett okay, well so youve been doing this for several years now, its kind of become your life blood now youre closing up shop, what does that mean for you . Whats next for you . Hamilton i have to reinvent myself. I mean i was actually at the city of sparks today and i was talking to the mayor and he goes what are you going to do now and i said, i dont know. You know i got to find something new. Luckily i can still do commercial solar because the impact of these changes doesnt really affect can still do that but look i do that with myself and maybe one other person. I dont do that with our team of people at hamilton solar that weve built over the course of the last seven years. Bennett so were talking permanent loss of jobs here . Hamilton sure, totally. I mean and its not like were talking about it, its happened. Those folks that used to work for us are no longer in our office. If you came to our office i mean theres a big for lease sign up right now and this is an office that we put a lot of effort and energy into building up. Bennett if the puc were to change course or if something were to change legislatively or through the ballot measure, would you consider going back into solar or is it just too unstable . Hamilton well when we joke around in the Solar Industry we call it the solar coaster right . Were trying to break do the doors. Were changing the industries and we know that its going to be challenging. Right . And thats something that you know getting into solar or any whether its going to be solar, wind, geothermal, any of the type of a newer Renewable Energy i guess you could say. I would love to get back into it. Im have a 22 month old son and i want him to have a Better Future than i did but it doesnt seem that as a nation or as the powers at be are going to put the environment above you know strictly financial reward any time soon. Bennett okay. Reid thank you so much for your time, i sure appreciate it. Hamilton hey thank you for giving us a voice, we appreciate it. Bennett yeah. Well coming up on face the state ill sit down with a group of industry professionals to discuss working on changing the face of rooftop jjj jjj Arianna Bennett welcome back to face the state, im Arianna Bennett. Thank you for being with us once again. Well since the Public Utilities commission december there have been several attempts to stop the changes or to convince them to reconsider. So far the efforts have not been successful and now Solar Companies may have to turn to the voters. Now blake guinn and Travis Miller are here now to tell us all about the effort going on. Thank you both for coming on the show. Blake guinn thank you. Travis miller thank you. Bennett okay so this alliance really has brought together former solar competitors right all into one body, tell us what the ultimate goal is . Miller well the ultimate goal is to bring back net metering rates that allow the homeowners to have an option to install solar again. Right now its just not a viable market with the rates that have been imposed. Bennett now you guys were telling me earlier that as you said its just not viable. Are we going to see pretty much all rooftop residential solar dropping off if this doesnt change . Blake guinn what youll ultimately see is theres no financial benefit any more to go solar in the state. Based premium, your fixed charge has we produce in excess is now reduced by 75 percent. Financially its not a good investment anymore so people are gonna end up leaving if they havent already. The state produced over 8700 jobs for solar jobs. Theres no more of those. All right . Were seeing Companies Just up and go. Bennett have you guys personally had to deal with layoffs . Miller were definitely seeing layoffs. We just lost 19 job positions in our sun works office and thats out of 24. So instead of looking at expanding to 50 or 100 employees over the course of 2016 weve dropped from 24 down to about 5 in the Residential Market and so its pretty dramatic. Were doing our best to keep the door open today. Guinn local companies down in Southern Nevada are closing up shop. Solar city, the company i work for, has laid off over 5 to 600 people and that includes local people who take care of the system. Southern nevada was the number one solar installation. Nevada was the number one solar job per capita in the nation. The loss of jobs is devastating. Bennett now part of the argument from the Public Utilities commission was that it cant base its decisions on projected job loss. What do you guys have to say in response to that . Travis miller well theyve based their decision on projected future costs of the utility grid that have not been vetted and are there in serious discrepancies in those calculations and they simply dont match the calculations performed by any of the groups that i work with that show that the net metering is the net benefit to the entire community, all members of the grid receive a benefit from solar net metering customers bennett well they say that and i you know this is a difficult fact to verify but they say that net metering is ending up hurting Traditional Energy users that theyre actually having to subsidize solar users because of the increase in use fees that solar users arent paying. Is that is there truth to that from your standpoint . Guinn solar provides a net benefit for all people. So the real idea of solar is that during on demand peak thats when solar generation is at its highest. So what were doing is were eliminating the need for the utility to provide expensive power during that time when solar home owners like myself can provide my neighbors cheap clean power. It also reduces the need to build extra infrastructure which we pay through our utility bills. Bennett so you think that it ends up breaking even . Guinn sure its a wash. So i mean were benefitting our community and our state. Nevadans have solar. Weve seen that with over 17,000 installed residents. Bennett so from your perspective why was this decision made to begin with . Guinn so nv energy is a monopoly. This is the first time that theyre ever faced any type of competition so for them its a net loss in profit. Now as a utility theyre guaranteed 10 net profit and solar is actually cutting into those overall profits. So while were helping out our community, nevadans are choosing to produce their own clean power, nv energy as a monopoly is now anting to put a stop to that. Bennett okay well the Solar Companies have banded together. Theyre kind of not going quietly in this situation so tell me about the efforts. Whats being done right now to change the outcome . Miller so in northern nevada we formed the great basin solar coalition. It consists of a large majority of the local smaller businesses that have been installing solar in the area for the last 1520 years. Rock solar, independent power company, alternative energy solutions, sierra solar theyve all theyre all thethethe providers that have serviced the northern nevada industry for the history of the market in our area and so weve all been in competition for with each other for a long time and now were coming together to kind of get the message out that something has to change. Guinn down in Southern Nevada weve collected 55,000 ballots, signatures, for hopefully a ballot referendum. Ultimately what we would like to do is go back, put the vote to the people to undue the unjust taxes and rate increases that the puc ha put on the people. Ultimately going back to the old net metering. If we extend the cap thats great but nevadans would like to see that cap removed because with that cap removed well Economic Growth can its something that the state needs. Bennett and i understand that northern nevada great Basin Coalition is in support of the ballot referendum also . Miller we are definitely in support. Wewe joined them at the filing at the secretary of States Office down in carson city a few weeks ago and were really hoping that this awareness raising can really maybe put some pressure on our legislators to call a special session. They have an opportunity to really solve this problem right now instead of letting the industry be destroyed and have it be something that is dealt with later on through these Ballot Initiatives and future legislative sessions. So now is the time for them to act. Bennett so specifically what would voters be asked to decide on this november . What would be on that referendum . Guinn so we would ask the voters to say no on the ballot. And that no would undue the pucs decision for rooftop solar. Bennett then it would just automatically revert back to the old net metering system . Guinn right. I would be in law that we would go back to the original bennett would that then be binding so that the following legislative session couldnt go in and state another bill giving the puc power again to make another change . Miller i think that the petition will remove verbiage from sb 374 that was passed by this last legislation that was used to create this new rate tariff and so any legislature is always going to have an option to come back in and change things thats thats their job but its much better if they address the problem now. Its going to be a lot easier if they come andand save the industry. If they wait til the next legislative session, all of the companies will be out of business, well all be gone. And theres the confidence in the solar market is gone. Theres a chill throughout the market. Were seeing commercial jobs that arent even affected by these rates cancelling their projects because theyre afraid they might be next on the chopping block. Bennett yeah. We definitely dont want to see a shrinking of industry. I know and maybe this earlier the coalition had called for calling a special session of the legislature. Is that something thats still on the table . Guinn absolutely. So a special session would ultimately be the right decision right now. Its a quick fix for this problem. Were seeing Southern Nevadans, northern nevadans. The support is behind this. So i mean with the 55,000 signatures that weve received its more than enough to let our leaders know that this is the right thing to do. I think that our leaders have seen that he job growth, right, i mean thats what this is. Its all about job growth and competition. The freedom to choose where you want to get your power from. So this is something that i think that theyre understanding, theyre getting more information on it as they meet with constituents. Bennett okay, what would be the minimum required to keep Solar Companies alive and you know well in nevada. Maybe not but if there were a compromise what would be the minimum that you guys would ask for . Miller my opinion is that the net metering customer needs to stay on the same rate schedule that they are currently which is the otherwise applicable rate schedule. It ties their rates directly to existeveryone elses rates and really gives the protection of the heard. It keeps everybody on the same level. What the new rate schedule that theyve announced now kind of allows this the net metering section to be treated vastly differently than every other rate pair in the state and thats what causes the Chilling Effect in the market. No ones confident that they wont be targeted further in this and so bennett okay. Real quick because we dont have a ton of time left, what about grandfathering . Is that something that you guys support . Guinn i fully support it. So i myself am just not just a solar employee but i am a solar home owner. So my wife and i we 2014 and we installed solar on our home. We did it to save money and it also invests in our energy future. So i was encouraged by my government and the state to look forward and move forward toward solar. Now without that i mean my rates are gonna increase, i dont know what my payment is going to be but its going to be a lot higher. For the people that made that investment, that jump, that leap of faith to do this, its the right thing to do. To go back and say hey we encourage you to do this, lets go back and make sure that those people initially are taken care of. Bennett okay we just have about a minute left so we have to keep it quick but say this decision stands hypothetically. Is it possible that solar will rekindle in the future just under maybe a different set of standards . Miller the utilities scale market is still open for nv energy to build utilities scale that seems to be the direction they would like to to go. But with the structure thats in place now the homeowner is pushed out of the market. Bennett okay. Guinn solar scale utility for them to build it, that is still feasible. But residential rooftop solar, without a change in the rates its just the investment for somebody to make that is just not there anymore. Bennett okay if they want to get any more information on this, the viewers, where would you direct them . Guinn so we have a nosolartax. Com and bringsolarback. Com as well. And theres just a lot of information out there. Bennett okay with about 30 seconds left anything else you guys want to add, any final message . Miller id just like to say this is a bipartisan issue. You kwon the people in nevada overwhelmingly support solar. A recent poll said 89 of nevadans support homeowners rights to have solar energy. A vast majority in both parties are in opportunity for our legislators to come together on a topic they can all agree on and support their constituents. Bennett okay thank you both so much for coming on the show guinn thank you so much. But for more information on all of this you head to our website thats ktvn. Com. I will post both of the websites they mentioned before. Thank you so much for announcer the following is a paid advertisement for good feet, americas numberone arch support. Upwards of 80 of the population at some point in their life will have foot problems. My feet feel like theyre broken by the end of the day. 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