Israeli politician can I say I play she were a politician Mr President then you would know the art of the possible g.m. And United Auto Workers have reached a tentative contract deal that could end up a month long strike representatives for the u.a.w. Say the deal offers quote major gains for workers really a Francis. One year ago my book Gold is a better way became a national bestseller it remains at the top of the charts today since that time gold is up more than $300.00 per ounce Hi my name's Adam Carolla I teach investors about gold now you can buy my book or even better watch my latest video presentation right now for free it's called the great devaluation it was seen live by thousands of my annual gold summit and explains how central banks of lost control buy stocks and bonds are set to collapse and why gold will sort of $5000.00 per ounce in the next few years people are calling it the best presentational gold they've ever seen just text the word gold to 49776 I'll send it to you right now no questions asked text the word gold to 49776 text the word gold 249776 we promise to add massive value before ever asking for your business text the word to 49776 this is cow Hunter the producer of radio law talk the nationally syndicated radio program that airs coast to coast and border to border we talk about topical issues of the law that affect and interest you and there's a little fun thrown in to so long to tune in for Radio last talk Saturday 9 to noon here on k t o x 1340 radio long talk listen for it kill enjoy it brought to you by Penny and associates injury lawyers at p.t. n n u I Penney and Associates dot com. 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Whether or not update for tonight also cloudy then gradually clear walls around 68 with like solved with and tomorrow sunny with highs there 94. With. Teachers across the country. Raises. Tail sales fell for the 1st time since September raising fears of a slowdown in the American manufacturing sector could be starting to bleed into the consumer side of the economy that's not good news for this of those though General Motors and union leaders at the u.a.w. . Reached a tentative deal on a new labor contract that could end the United Auto Workers month long strike against the automaker details of the proposed deal not immediately available however the unions roughly $40000.00 members with g.m. Are expected to receive raises and bonuses as part of the accord they will vote on the pact Here's our registered investment advisor Michette like mist this is good news if they ratify this contract it is George and I'm looking at raises of 3 to 4 percent I looked at the stock market reaction today g.m. Was up to an app percent and the only closed up while one percent for it was flat on the day I just wonder about some of the details of George and we're just guessing I'm just reading these reports so we don't really know what's in there but they're talking about the addition of 9000 you know more more workers a pay off for promotion Sastre raises George if the economy is slowing down I don't know how we can guarantee these jobs because we don't know what's going to happen with the cars and the auto industry so yes it's good this is all over it cost g.m. $2000000000.00 so far it's probably going to take another 2 weeks to hash that out but if g.m. Agreed to something that's going to destroy its bond market and it and its bonds are already one company has been rated as junk it's not good for map aspect George Well we will watch and see what happens when i'm glad it looks like the strike is over once the workers ratify social isolation is unfortunately a common occurrence among the elderly while this phenomenon can be traced back to a number of contributing factors the simple fact is that it's harder for many older people to move around. And I place a significant role in relationships with this in mine researchers from the American Jihad tragics society said they may find a link between osteoarthritis a condition that causes joint pain and social isolation that's interesting many people of course suffer from stressing reside in depression during the winter holidays one of the reasons why our programs are live 7 days a week for you the truth is the holiday cheer isn't guaranteed just because it's forced on you by television special social media posts and Christmas carols and every store that you step in several sources can cause a storm of negativity during the holidays from money stress to family stress and from pressure and unmet expectations to loneliness Let's check in with resident psychiatrist Dr Peter Bergen Peter how widespread is loneliness and depression during the holidays Oh people often just feel miserable judged during the holidays and I just love that you bring this subject up they let you stay on the air. One of the problems is that the psychologist the fair the Saudis are adding to the misery. Here's one that says every call your heart and favorite holiday movie when the family fell the meaning of 2 Christmases cetera et cetera Yeah that was say as . He would say I want to tell people that you can make you hungry. Of course is depressing if you have to go and see if the people who brought you up in a way that left you feeling really angry have said of course is no fun to go to a party where you know one of your uncles is going to try to inappropriate with sexually or put you down and it sure it's no fun if you have no place to go on holiday sure but the answer is to remember that we have to make our lives here on Earth there are infinite opportunities there are times when holidays can be as good or better than movies so sit down with the person this nearest dearest to you and say what do we do to make this a great holiday for us or some friends of the people or some people who are poor don't have any ills and then you get into all the guilt and shame we have to go on to just tax party we have to see my There's no way not to see mom and Christmas or whatever else but I want to urge for you folks out there to to really look around say well what do I need and if and if you actually don't even have somebody to sit down with and plan and go someplace where there will be people who will need you to someplace where we should be giving out food on Thanksgiving or Christmas or cleaning up or helping and some way we can make our holidays I want people to know that we humans can really go out there and get the love we want give the love we want find the enjoyment I want some want folks have good holiday. Thank you Peter we'll be talking with you before those holidays and once again we will be live for you on Christmas Eve and Christmas night New Year's Eve and New Years night Thanksgiving night as well just in case your by yourself NASA has unveiled a new spacesuit for. The next moon landing I don't know when the next moon landing will occur but we've got the story in the news at coast to coast am dot com if you get a moment go take a look at it it's kind of a cool space suit it really is archaeologists have discovered more than 20 ancient wooden coffins near locks or in Egypt according to the countries and to quit his ministry the coffins were found on the river Niles a bank it's pretty fascinating story indeed another fascinating story of course is that has been the disappearance of the former Teamsters boss Jimmy Hoffa in a moment Jack Goldsmith joins us with his work in the shadow next on coast to coast am. 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And you only find Sleep Number One of those 600 sleep number stores nationwide find one near you at sleep number dot com slash Nori insurance. Plan from different companies no government or Medicare affiliate coverage is not available. If you have Medicare there's something you need to go there are all. Medicare Advantage plans that me included extra coverage for. One complete bundle of insurance better includes hospital visits doctor care prescription drugs and may also include eyeglasses and digital care some of these planes may have no monthly plan premium That's right 0 dollars plan premium where of if you have Medicare more online and one card. That's one card. One company one complete package of benefits that mean clude extra coverage for your eyeglasses and dental care and some of these plans have no monthly plan premium one card. One card. That one card. Back to coast to coast with you we've got a fascinating program for you tonight starting of course with. Shadow Jack Goldsmith a professor at Harvard Law School a senior fellow at the Hoover Institution cofounder of law fair he teaches and writes about national security law presidential power cyber security international law Internet law conflicts of law as well and he's from Newton Massachusetts and his book is called Inhofe a shadow a stepfather a disappearance in Detroit and my search for the truth Jack I'm looking forward to this great book by the way walk into the show thank you very much I'm happy to be here here's something for you that is a tidbit that I think you'll enjoy I'm from Detroit. My career at. Channel 2 before I left on the Minnesota than St Louis and l.a. And I may have been the last news person in 1975 to talk to Jimmy Hoffa it was in May. 1975 I had invited him to our station to be on our newscast we had a hour long newscast at the time and so we have big blocks where we had lived interviews on the Sat and then and he was one of them and he like I like the guy in a you know after the newscast was done I walked him to his car that he had parked in our back parking lot in you know his whole effort was as you well know and point out in your book in Hoffa shadow he wanted to come back and reclaim the Union presidency you know his parole you know via except that he couldn't do that part of his terms but you know he was a nice guy but you know I've got some questions about him and kinda in Canada and we'll get into that but. The big story that we were covering during those days is of course what happened to Jimmy Hoffa in July 1985 when he was going to have a luncheon with some mafiosos at the Marcus Red Fox in Bloomfield and he was gone but the big story in this is where you come in is that we all were told or heard that his son the guy that he treated like a son Chuckie O'Brien who I believe was your stuff father was the driver at the Marcus Redfox and took him away to what where whatever happened to him Tell me a little bit about what you've heard because you had a falling out with him and then you came back into the family mix again and then of course wrote the book and Hoffa shadow but tell us your story with us yeah so I was 12 years old when Hoffa disappeared my mother actually married Jackie. 6 weeks before Hoffa disappeared so except he had just recently come into my life he was my stepfather he was actually a great father as you pointed out he was the hop of longtime aide he had been his right hand man for 20 years. They had a falling out about Scituate week feed me 6 or 8 months earlier before the disappearance and soon after the disappearance which as you say to place he'd probably just disappeared into thin air from the mockers red box parking lot about 5 or 6 days after he disappeared my stepfather became a leading suspect in the person whom the f.b.i. Believed that the prime picked him up from the Marcus red box and took them to his killers Yeah that's what we kept hearing that's what our reporters at our station were trying to follow that lead Chuckie to believe he's still alive Disney has got to be what he is he's $85.00 you'll be 86 in December I mean everything we heard Jack during the seventy's was that you know he's he's got a son who's running the union now James p. Hoffa and I met his daughter Barbara Krantz or she was a judge here in St Louis and she's in her eighty's right now but we always heard that Chuckie O'Brien was like a son with Jimmy Hoffa that Hoffa loved him like a son and some of us had a very difficult time trying to. Except the fact that was he is really a suspect and he did it did he drive the car and take off or to some place where they rubbed him out and we could get some of us couldn't believe that he would do something like that unless they also threaten Chuckie right to check he was like a son to him he referred to hop and sometimes his dad often referred to them as the 2nd son his other son they were extremely close truckie was by his side all the time for the 20 years leading prior to the disappearance except for the few months before the reason that the f.b.i. The main reason the f.b.i. Believed Chuckie was involved was because he was driving a car in the vicinity it was believed since Hoffa disappeared into thin air that he must have gotten into a car voluntarily with someone they speculated that he might have gotten into the car with Jackie to check on the few people he would have gotten into the car with Chuckie was very close to one of the other living suspects Anthony Jacqueline honey and the f.b.i. Also discover what was later determined to be fair that matched the scent of Hof in the car so there is a lot of circumstantial evidence pointing to Chuckie as you said Chuckie revered Hof on Eve Unum as a father he loved my grandfather and all of my life he treated him he revered him and told me how much I loved him and expressed deep affection for him the circumstantial case against Chuckie that seemed so powerful in 1975 and that the f.b.i. Released at the time which is why everyone believed they actually accused him publicly driving off into is death. The circumstantial case against him what I'm about to say now is not known that if the case as the public understands it basically rests on the 1975 rumors of the night $75.00 theory starting about 2025 years ago the f.b.i. Developed a whole bunch of reasons to think that Chuckie was them involve the circumstantial case against him was full of holes and they developed evidence to think that there were other people involved so he's basically as you say everyone was told that he was involved in 75 every almost surprises he was close to how far. But that rumor and that representation by the government has been out there book after book has repeated it in various guises but the whole the whole case has changed in secret the government hasn't talked about this publicly but the whole case has changed in the last 20 years I bet it has and we're getting to some of those cases you did have a falling out what Chuckie something happened where you kind of broke away what happened yes I was extremely close to him when I was a teenager he was an amazing father in the mists in the height of the hof the disappearance. High the hof investigation he was a an amazing father when I went to college and to law school. I began to reflect upon impact on my career I started to read books about the Hava disappearance it turned out that many of the gentlemen that I was hanging out with were Chuckie's friends like Anthony Jacques Aloni and Anthony problems on 2 men that I refer to as Uncle Tony and Uncle Tony that they were according to the books I read very dangerous and violent men these books told me that Chucky had a criminal past so I started to learn more about my stepfather whom I revered and I started to think about my career I wanted to be a lawyer and I assumed and this is a valid assumption that having a close association with someone associated with the mob and who is the lead suspect in the Hoffa disappearance might not be so good. For my career. Largely for what now seemed to me to be pretty selfish reasons I basically cut him out of my life for about 20 years when you were an assistant attorney general weren't you I was the assistant attorney general in charge of the Office of Legal Counsel Yes At what point did you decide to break bread with Chuckie again and get close to him it started actually when I was in the Justice Department I was working on. I was working on what the. President Bush's one was wiretapping program and I had discovered that there were some legal problems with that in the course of working on that program I actually on the legal issues on the water as well as having program I actually came across accidentally some precedents involving Chuckie It was checking in the sixty's 'd had been illegally surveilled he had always told me that you couldn't trust the government that the government did all sorts of illegal surveillance that they cut corners in secret inside the Justice Department and it had an impact on me when I was in the Justice Department involved in this with the program and I came across an opinion that basically validated which actually had long told me that was the event that got me started to rethink. Their retreat considering him and trying to basically make to seek his forgiveness there were other things as well. And they all as I got older I became less judgmental I became less confident in my own virtue and some of us confident that I was in a position to judge Jackie and his life I had my own young children and it was only after I had children. And that and the love and vulnerability that came with having children and I realized how extraordinarily hurtful I had been to Chuckie when I basically thought about it my life for all those reasons I saw his forgiveness after I left the government have you had a chance to talk to Chuckie over the years about this Hoffa case oh yes. I mean the book is basically about that we talked for literally hundreds probably certainly more than a 1000 maybe more than 2000 hours we talked and talked and talked for 7 years about it does Chucky have his own theory of what happened and who did it. He's never told me what is there what happened and who did it I mean early on in our discussions. He was floating theories about the CIA and the like but that wasn't serious he's never told me who he thinks actually. Committed the deed that afternoon and I don't think he knows maybe maybe he certainly I'm sorry go ahead well maybe he doesn't want to know Jack but he certainly doesn't want to know he told me that many times he said I He said that I quote him on the book he says I don't know and I'm glad I don't know and certainly if he did know he wouldn't be alive today there's no way he would be alive today because he spent the last 45 years trying to clear his name he's talked to the f.b.i. He's been on television if he had any. Evidence to spell he wouldn't he would have been alive today now for a lot of people of course who weren't around during the Hoffa era you know he was he was a bulldog he helped build that union when this country needed needed unions because most companies were taking advantage of American workers and he threw a lot of muscle got his way in but using some of that muscle he had to go to the mob to get some help and he stayed in bed with them and finance Los Vegas with Teamster pension money and God knows what else they did. And got to a point where I will play a clip after the break of Bobby Kennedy from the McAllen Commission who was going after Jimmy Hoffa but you know Hoffa was very friendly with with mobsters and I think that was probably his biggest on doing Jack I agree I agree with both things you said he was hugely important and hugely successful Labor leader and he came up through the labor movement the hard way and he was enormously consequential in bringing many hundreds of thousands of people out of. Of. And of the middle class and the workers in the teachers union and many other workers around the country just revered off for he was is really an amazing leader but as you say he was also looking only be called corrupt by any definition he was he did have relationships with the mob there were 2 sorts one as you say he bases there were a lot of mob controlled unions in the Teamsters Union when he became president and he basically had to accommodate those he did not have the power to basically get the mob out of the parts of the Union that they controlled. And off with a very pragmatic guy and he was willing to deal with anyone on any terms with. Some advantage so he had no compunction about dealing with the mob. And then also as you say this is a relationship he. Make loans to all sorts of people including. Absolutely he built Las Vegas Jack we're going to take a quick break we'll come back and talk more next hour we'll take phone calls with you Jack Goldsmith with us in Hoffa's shadow. 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Years premier networks we are talking about in a huff a shadowy Jack Goldsmith's incredible work about Jimmy Hoffa he is Jack is the stepson of Chuckie O'Brien when he had accused of being involved in the Hoffa disappearance and we've been talking about that much more to talk about when we come back we'll also take your phone calls next hour with Jack as we talk about the Hoffa case well it's Wednesday and that means 2 more features from the Art Bell ball Tommy Absolutely and one of my favorites just added They just added an art night where he opened up the phone lines he wanted to talk to a vampire he wanted to interview a vampire I remember that one you should hear some of the people that called in and it was a really great show and that's just one of the latest in our Art Bell vault a collection of classic Art Bell programs also the other ones are still there Dr Evelyn tag Leni which is a black magic Malakai Martin Dame So it's a really great collection it's classic audio and it's all heard without interruption if you're not already a subscriber it's a great time to become one just get over to coast to coast am dot com all the details are right there it's coast to coast am dot com absolutely available to you Coast insiders as well and I'll tell you about that next hour we'll be back with Jack Goldsmith in a moment in Hoffa shadow. 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And welcome back to cost because who would Jack Goldsmith his book in Hoffa's shadow and Jack I have to tell you I know about half the people who were called before the grand jury when they started investigating his disappearance your book is one of the most thorough ones that I have ever read on the subject thank you that's just truly remarkable I want to get your reaction to the movie The Irishmen with. No in dinero and all those folks that's coming out with based on the book I heard you were paint houses but for people to really get a handle on why Jim Hoffa disappeared and as we can perhaps a murdered. He wanted to come back into the teamster presidency but by that time his handpicked successor who we didn't get along with anymore Frank Fitzsimons he was in bed with the mob as well and the mob didn't want to make a change in the I guess Hoffa in the end he told me this too when I when I was walking to his car. He knew that we all knew his reputation and he wanted to go straight and he was deal was done being the good the bad guy with the mob in the mob wasn't going to have anything to do with that they had their hand in the cookie jar the Teamster pension fund and they didn't want to make a change I believe that's why Hoffa got killed what do you think that's exactly why he got killed one of the things it's important to understand is that while Hoffa was did have extensive relations with the mob when he was and I explained this in detail in the book when he was in charge of the Teamsters he was in charge of the. Turkey described to me in detail the mob would come to him it would cost him $50000.00 per loan just to be considered top off and he often said yes and they may needed him because they couldn't get the funding any other way you often said yes but he sometimes said no so while Hoffa way is extent. Relations with the mob he was in charge of the teacher's pension fund they often said no he went to jail as you say but is he placed Frank Fitzsimmons in charge and it was a weak sister and he basically allowed the mob to take over the pension fund all the all hurdles to the pension fund went away and the mob was gorging on teacher and. Pension and some money and so went off like it's out of jail and tried to come back they basically said no way and as you say Hopper was threatening the last 6 months to basically reveal everything he was overt about this to basically reveal everything about the mob's relationship to the Teamsters and the like I'm not so sure he said he was going straight I'm not sure to hobble is really capable of going. Rate but on the other hand he did threaten to tell tales and. Organized crime around the country was mortified to talk about this in detail in the book and that's certainly why he was murdered it was so amazing his son is now the president of the Teamsters Union and he's been the president for 20 some years at least. Not longer than his father yeah and a good guy and his his daughter Barbara Krantz or was a St Louis County Circuit Judge I mean very well educated good kids in every way in 1957 and this is part of the problem that started this mess for Hoffa Bobby Kennedy who was an attorney on the McAllen commission as they were investigating racketeering and mob involvement and stuff in unions and everything else Bobby Kennedy hated Jimmy Hoffa and Jimmy Hoffa as you know Jack hated Bobby Kennedy I want to play a little clip of Bobby Kennedy trying to question Jimmy Hoffa at the McAllen committee not been called by him by by the same program. And. Regain any union activities anymore even though that's what he wanted to do it's what he told me and so many other people back in 1975 when he was starting that push that got him killed I'm convinced Jack now you've looked at this and you've touched upon it in the book and you mention the fact that there's no proof and I agree with that I think I think Jimmy Hoffa who hated the Kennedys had something to do with John f. Kennedy's assassination that's always been my personal feeling. Well I don't I couldn't find any evidence for it he certainly hated Bobby Kennedy hated his brother as the House investigators in 1972 did a rerun of the Warren Commission said of papa he had the motive in the had the means but they couldn't find any evidence that he was involved Chuckie told me a lot of intimate things about how frightened he says that he was involved and he was certainly happy when Bobby Kennedy When been done if Kennedy killed was killed . But I don't I don't believe that he was involved or any number of reasons he knew the players who may have been involved Carlos Marcelo and Santosh Trafficante dead he also knew Jack Ruby everyone who was in Detroit knew Jack will be here and so he definitely knew the people who were for whom there's a more plausible case of involvement but I found no evidence that he was actually involved and he was under at the time this is happening he was under 24 hour surveillance he knew he was under 24 hour surveillance and. It just would have been surprising if even though he wanted to he was happy that it happened if he were involved but in any event neither I nor the investigators were able to find any concrete evidence suggesting that he was involved because I think negative I think part of Hoffa's thoughts were that if you get John f. Kennedy the president out of the way his brother Bobby of course will last stop being the attorney general that he was yeah that child quote Chuckie Chuckie told me that soon after most killed he said. One prick gone maybe will be lucky with the next one did Tukey go into deep depression when Hoffa disappeared. Check as I describe in the book was the moment he heard about the hospital missing he was mortified because he knew what he knew he didn't know what happened that afternoon but he knew why he disappeared he knew all the players all the way around he knew how for example only he knew problems on and he knew all of them 3000000 a lot happened. And it was mortifying to him because his 2 father figures were Jimmy Hoffa and Anthony jackal only a person who disappeared in the leaves the specter of the disappearance and he was then soon when he became a suspect which freaked him out because he wasn't actually involved in it but there was this strange circumstantial case against him in the game even more freaked out because he wanted to try to clear his name he tried to clear his name but he couldn't even begin to do anything to cross the mob because if he had he would be gone. Absolutely what's so amazing he is in a terrible awful position to try to try to describe in some detail in the book or when you do a very good job with that what's so amazing to with all of this is the fact that this Hoffa case remains open at least in the public's eye and hasn't been solved and the body is never been found and probably never will be Jack I don't believe it will ever be found I was you know I've interviewed a lot of f.b.i. Agents who've worked the case over the last 45 years they all the ones I could find to a lot of actually became friends with a lot of them are week or so close and they all say the remarkable thing is there is a lot of evidence in the case about the conspiracy and the like but there's actually not a single piece of evidence not one about what happened to him that afternoon we have no idea what happened to him that afternoon we don't know if he voluntarily got a voluntary got in the car if he was shot or had he just disappeared into thin air there's no evidence it's amazing you know in some bizarre way you know we put a bond Detroit television in maybe a 75 talking about the presidency and coming back and everything else and then of course he disappears in July I keep I've always wondered if that broadcast anything to do with his disappearance it might have contributed to it but he was doing a whole bunch of things he was another 8 miles contributed. On what he said but he was he was letting it be known in public and in private that he was going to tell tales I speculate in the book why he did that and it was obviously suicidal he understood what the consequences would be and I talk about talking about that I think that when he realized he couldn't get the teachers back he loved you need him in his whole life and when it became clear to him that he was losing lost his case he couldn't get to that condition let it I think he just decided to bring everything out. And he I mean he wasn't overtly suicidal obviously it takes my but he was acting in a way that foreseeable resulted in his murder. Incredible story truly remarkable Now there's a book out called I heard you paint houses which talks about his men and that's of course been turned into a movie which is going to come out in November December called the Irishman about Frank Sheeran who you highlight in your book as well sure and I guess his has said that he killed Hoffa what do you think about. I don't think much at all I wrote I wrote a long essay in The New York Review of Books. I think this year and confession is preposterous and so does everybody who's ever looked at the case in the f.b.i. There's no affirmative evidence for it and the case itself is is full of holes and implausibilities but you can't prove a negative and he he he did report according to the book to come back to the crime . But I don't know anyone who spent a lot of time looking at the case who believes it and in that essay I talk about the f.b.i. Agents on the record who think it's preposterous and why and it's going to be made into a big movie so it's going to be considered truth it's going to be a big one capsule only with what some superstars in there I remember cases where the f.b.i. Dug up a farm or they dug up boards in a house where all kinds of things they just. They just can't find it do you think there's some f.b.i. Person out there Jack who handled the case who knows what happened not on to I think it I know it because I talked to him on May told me what they think so I can tell you this about what they think what happened I love to hear it I mean I can't I can't reveal everything that I know because for a lot of reasons but I can tell you this and I talk about this in the book. Starting about 2025 this is none of this is not on the public what I'm about to tell you might not know because the public thinks that the 975 story that was late that involved Chuckie and the like is the actual story the story about 20 or 25 years ago 2 things happened one. The case agent on the case and the city u.s. Attorney on the case developed a whole bunch of reasons to think that Chuckie was not involved and make came to the view that the focus of Chuckie had misled them and taken the case in the wrong direction so that was one thing that happened and starting in the 1990 s. They tried to clear his name and address the whole thread in the book at the same time they uncovered through surveillance and through informant information. They had they believe they did figure out who did it and who picked up and who killed them the person that they think who picked up. Cording to again this is according to several f.b.i. Agents and former f.b.i. Agents at least one. Government lawyer who told me this and I pieced it together based on what they told me. Jack Aloni who was the brother of Anthony Takalani who is a leading suspect was the person who picked up Papa Haifa knew him he had been talking to him in recent weeks and. He had no one has reviewed all of them that day the f.b.i. Was never able to figure out where he was on that day that picked him up and they think that they know the man who killed him and I did not mention the man's name in the book because I don't know the basis for the F.B.I.'s belief but they think it was a low level Detroit organized crime figure who rose and prominent. Soon after the disappearance of became a big man and they had to degrade family so they think that they have got it figured out but all of the players are not dead they can't prove it I think one day that they will maybe one day soon come out and finally explain what they know him are they think it and. I hope when they do that that they exonerate Jackie because they've told him that they don't think he's a suspect and I wish they would say so publicly that most of the fact that he believes he had nothing to do with it must have destroyed him during that time period because every media event kept saying Chuckie O'Brien maybe he didn't he was the driver and Jimmy knew the driver so he had to jump in with Jackie it was all over the place imagine how bad it is this is a man grew up with that you revered that you were deeply loyal to that you considered to be your father and imagine if you had a reputation whatever of his reputation was in check he had a mixed reputation but he had a reputation to loyalty especially to hoffer that's what everyone a lot of people speculate he was poverty or government I don't believe that's true and I explained why in the book but imagine that you're in public from the outset of the disappearance of actually picking up and driving your father to his death patricide essentially and living with that for 44 years trying to clear your name and not being able to I was one of the reasons I wrote the book was to figure out how to figure out the truth because Jackie was unable to you know didn't have the resources or the legal training and I was right do we know what the son James p. Hoffa suffuse are about to check your brian accusations from the outset James p. Was convinced that Chuckie was involved and he there's a long rivalry between them going back a long time and from the beginning James believe techie was involved and he was the one the 1st point of the f.b.i. To Chuckie interesting I don't know if he thinks that I reached out to him twice to talk to me about the book and he didn't want to talk to me about it I would guess there was a little river would be there as you say because Jimmy Hoffa also thought of Chucky as his son and probably paid more attention to Chucky than he did James p. Jr he did for most of his life yes 1st of all check he was extremely close to Barbara and James he in effect raised them but he was especially close to Barbara and he loves Barbara very much he he and James had a falling out but you're absolutely right. For most of James's life most of half of the tension in public and elsewhere was given to Chucky even though Chucky was not a perfect human being but he Hava showered attention on him. And but over time it's been especially when I had dropped out of jail as James's legal skills became more relevant top of trying to get out from underneath the condition of a problem Hopper publicly and otherwise closer to the sun and less close to the point told on for 2nd jack where the break top of the hour we'll come back and talk more about your work in Hoffa shadow and of course the Web site is linked up at coast to coast am dot com It's Jack Goldsmith dot org And we will take your calls next on coast to coast am. Shirts storable food and yes our world famous supplements and check this out because of your supports and the support of stations just like the one you're listening to right now are giving something back. Promo code. 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