I'm Terry Gross. Live from n.p.r. News in Washington I'm Jack Speer President Trump says some u.s. Troops will go to different parts of Syria for now but eventually they will be brought back home he's defending his decision to pull out as Turkey moved in against u.s. Backed Kurdish fighters in northern Syria here's N.P.R.'s Michele Kelemen the Kurds help the u.s. To fight ISIS in Syria but Trump says he made no promises to them while working with the Kurds we're going to relationship with the Kurds but we never agreed to you know protect the Kurds was for them and then for 3 and a half to 4 years we never agreed to protect the Kurds from the rest of the lands Turkey agreed to pause its military campaign to give the Kurds time to withdraw all about 20 miles from the Turkish Syrian border Trump who has hailed that arrangement negotiated by his Administration says he doesn't think it would have happened without the Kurds going through quote 2 and a half days of hell Michele Kelemen n.p.r. News the State Department a bipartisan group of state attorneys general say they've reached a tentative national settlement with 5 major drug companies over the opioid crisis and are unveiling plans for how to distribute almost $50000000000.00 in cash and medicine to hard hit communities drug distributors Amerisource Bergen Corp Cardinal Health and McCaslin Corp a drug makers Johnson and Johnson and Ti Vo pharmaceuticals Ltd proposed a deal last week valued $48000000000.00 resolve opioid litigation against them separately for companies reached a $260000000.00 settlement with 2 a while counties today warning what would have been the 1st federal trial against drug companies for their role in the opioid crisis the House has blocked a largely symbolic effort by Republicans to censor House Intelligence chairman Adam Schiff as N.P.R.'s Susan Davis reports Republican leaders called for the official reprimand for ships management of the impeachment inquiry Democrats blocked a vote on a resolution by Arizona Republican Congressman any big to censure Schiff specifically . Wilkens want to reprimand shift for the way he depicted President Trump's July 25th call with the Ukrainian president during a committee hearing last month says his summary was a parody it was self evident to anyone watching Democrats control the chamber and block the resolution from proceeding it is part of Republicans broader complaint that the impeachment inquiry is happening behind closed doors it was never authorized by a full House vote she says public hearings could happen in the future house rules do not require such a vote Susan Davis n.p.r. News the Capitol the job administration is showing no signs of backing off its plan to collect d.n.a. Samples from asylum seekers no other migrants were detained by authorities saying without information to a massive f.b.i. Database Justice Department official says the information could be used by law enforcement for hunting for criminals Amendment regulation would written portably mandate d.n.a. Collection for almost all migrants across without authorization a Wall Street the Dow is up 57 points this is n.p.r. . Protesters continue to defy an emergency decree in the capital of Chile confronting police there you can tame unrest that is left at least 11 people dead police used tear gas and water cannons to break up a March by students in union members on one of Santiago's main streets today police and soldiers Meanwhile guarded long lines of people who queued up before supermarkets opened since many stores were closed over the weekend so as conservative president said the country is at war with the protesters who contend they have not shared in the country's economic advances federal land agencies like the u.s. Forest Service and the Bureau of Land Management are not doing enough to keep employees safe that's according to a new government watchdog report member station Boise State Public Radio he threw and as more the Government Accountability Office found employees face threats ranging from online harassment to attempted murder in some cases the f.b.i. Opened domestic terrorism investigation centered around anti-government extremists and he said that your heads a California union that represents b.l.m. Employees with current anti-government sentiment being pushed by a lot of these groups national agenda prospective employee no longer look at all government and service tract of anymore that concern was heightened by armed standoff like the takeover of organs now your National Wildlife Refuge in 2016 between 201327000 there were $360.00 reported threats and assaults on staffers across 4 federal agencies for n.p.r. News I'm Heath treason in Boise griddle futures prices fall for a 2nd straight session oil down $0.47 a barrel to 5331 a barrel in New York I'm Jack Speer n.p.r. News in Washington support for n.p.r. Comes from n.p.r. Stations other contributors include the Corporation for Public Broadcasting and the estate of Joan Kroc whose bequest serves as an enduring investments in the future of public radio and the John d. And Catherine t. MacArthur Foundation Ed Mack founded dot org. Support for fresh air is provided by Cottonwood consulting specializing environmental sampling and natural resource management with headquarters located in Durango Cottonwood provides environmental services to the 4 corners and Rocky Mountain region more information is available at Cottonwood consulting dot com And again 709463761 this is Fresh Air I'm Terry Gross My guest is the author of a new biography of Janis Joplin called Janice her life and music Holly Georgia writes quote Joplin's confident musicianship brash sexuality and natural exuberance locked together to produce America's 1st female rock star Janice never compromised her vision she wasn't afraid to cross boundaries musical cultural and sexual as we look back at pivotal moments in 1906 rock history she is usually there the Monterey Pop Festival the vibrant Haight Ashbury scene in San Francisco the streets the clubs and studios of gritty New York City what stuck unquote Japanese brief life was ended by a heroin overdose in 1970 when she was only 27 her final album Pearl was released posthumously. Holly George Warren is also the author of the road to Woodstock and biographies of Alex Chilton and Gene Autry she's on the nominating committee of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and teaches at the State University of New York and new parts let's start with a track that was Joplin's commercial breakthrough with her band Big Brother in the holding company this is piece of my heart recorded in 1068. You see. Holly George Warren welcome back to Fresh Air thanks so much for having me again so why do you say why do you and so many others consider Janis Joplin the 1st woman rock star and I presume are we say rock star were eliminated during like rock n roll where we're eliminating like girl groups we're talking about like rock rock . Yes Janis Joplin broke down a lot of barriers to become the woman that she was in the 1960 s. When at that point in time there weren't too many women taking center stage not only on stage in the recording studio but even as far as a point of media attention and Janis created this incredible image that went along with her amazing vocal ability her talent and also her live performance which was very very different than most of the women that came before for people who aren't seeing her live or on film or video how is her live performance different. What made Janice really different as a live performer is that she connected with her audiences by tapping into her deepest feelings and there was this authenticity that came across She wasn't just standing up there singing she was basically emptying out her gods through that amazing voice of hers and touching her audience members like they had never been touched before I've talked to people who saw her back in 196667 and they talk about it as if it was yesterday especially women I think because she was able to express deep down emotions shame disappointments hurts that I think a lot of women in her audience couldn't express themselves and Janice was not only just singing to them she was singing for them and I think that kind of deep connection was very very unique at that time. She was very sexual onstage but it wasn't in the way that you would imagine she wasn't wearing like sexy clothes she wasn't like revealing a lot of her body like on stage. So what was it about her that had so much kind of sexual energy in her performances. You can look to 2 major influences that Janice had that I think affected her sexuality and the way she expressed it on stage one was of course the great Bessie Smith who lyrics Janice knew by heart she started out singing Bessie Smith songs way before we ever saw her these images of her with Big Brother in the holding company she started performing Bessie Smith songs in around 1963 and those kind of lyrics of sexuality of sexual longing sexual betrayal those very much inform Janice's own songwriting and the songs that she chose to sing the. The other major influence was Otis Redding she was a huge Otis fan until the day she died and she got to see him perform live 3 nights in a row at the Fillmore back in 1966 and it transformed her because he was a very sexual performer and he was able to this heat on stage that Janis herself was able to do through her own. Way of manifesting these feelings that she had while singing in the these songs and I mean Janice herself she compared singing on stage to having an orgasm she blew some journalists minds when she used that expression but she it was a very sexual experience for her and the world of rock in the late sixty's was very much a male dominated world in the studio and in the music world. Do you think their chief faced a lot of sexism when she was a performer in spite of on her way to stardom or after she reached at. Janice was one of the boys she considered herself one of the boys and she kind of was outside that gender role playing at the time that was pretty much dominant in our culture but when she was a public figure the press would of course be amazed by her vocals and critics would be talking about what a great singer she was but they were often see going out her body parts and talking about her physical appearance and away that of course you know male singers rock singers were really not getting that kind of attention from the press also she really had to bust down barriers to be able to have control to do what she wanted to do because she loved being in Big Brother and the holding company for example the band with whom she catapulted to fame but she was such a restless spirit as far as a musician goes she wanted to keep exploring different sounds different kinds of music and when she did that it was really awful in that the boys' club of music critics just kind of raked over the coals for dropping her band and going off on her own and they tried to say she was selling out going show biz and I don't think other artists like Eric Clapton who left plenty of bands to try different sounds I don't think they got that kind of personal attack that Janice got Janis Joplin's music idols included Bessie Smith and Big Mama Thorton other blues and rhythm and blues singers but she was born in Texas and Port Arthur Texas at a time when it was still segregated how she exposed to black music and how did she like find records that she might not have heard on the radio. Because Janis came of age in the mid fifty's fortunately in that golden age of early rock n roll she went nuts over Chuck Berry Little Richard there was some great records that she could listen to driving around they used to call it doing the Triangle where she lived in Port Arthur Texas they would just drive every night from Port Arthur to Beaumont to Orange Texas listening to the radio also Beaumont had some great or and B.'s station that played black music which Janis loved I mean the great ivory job hunter was from Beaumont so she was fortunately exposed to music like that on the radio and then she discovered Leadbelly and Leadbelly just changed for head around the lyrics the sound of his voice you know Janice took her own vocals for granted until she discovered Leadbelly she just thought Oh anybody can sing soprano like you know she sang in the church choir in the glee club but when she heard lead belly's fois she wanted to experiment with the rough and up her sailed and making it more brawl and she was a mimic she could you know she discovered Odetta who had kind of the round tones and she started trying to sing like oh dad on her records but she was mostly inspired by Leadbelly until she discovered of course Bessie Smith and then that was all she wrote Let's take a short break here and then we'll talk some more if you're just joining us my guest is Holly George Warren she's written a new biography of Janis Joplin called Janice We'll be right back this is Fresh Air . I'm inviting you to join me here on. The great music from all around the globe in the global village each week we travel the planet for classic recordings the best in new world music releases features specials and more from both international performers and rock jazz other artists who draw on world influences the global village Mondays from. As part of a great Monday night. Here on. Public radio for the 4 corners. Tune in to Chrissie Haim with the global village coming your way at 8 support for fresh air as provided by Mo Hart Murphy regional Adl center announcing the arrival of new line of Subaru models and offering a stress free sales environment open Monday through Saturday and Durango's Boto park more information is available at Mo Hart Murphy Subaru dot com that's most heart Murphy Subaru dot com. This is Fresh Air and if you're just joining us I'm talking to Holly George Warren about her new book Janice It's a biography of Janis Joplin one of Janis Joplin's most famous recordings as a ball and chain and that was a cover of a song that was written by an originally recorded by Big Mama Thorton. So what's the story behind how Janis Joplin 1st heard that song or how someone in her band 1st heard that song and how she decided to record it. It is so poetic that Janice's breakthrough song would be written by Big Mama Thorton ball and chain because as a teenager of course who like many who saw Elvis on Ed Sullivan Show Janice loved Elvis loved dog but then she went to the lengths and we don't even know how she did it but somehow she found Big Mama Thorne's original version of the Duke records out of nearby Houston Texas of Hound Dog which was very different from Elvis's it was it had a lot more heat to it and you know fast forward what 10 years later 1966 or so Janice was with Big Brother in the holding company Big Mama lo and behold was living in the Bay Area performing at a little club so Janis and her band mates went down to see her perform and she does this self penned song ball and chain they were blown away Janice started writing down the lyrics to the song on a piece of paper there sitting in the club they went backstage got to meet Big Mama and literally ask her permission for them to start covering that song and she said Sure as long as you don't mess it up you know and they did Dave gets the drummer used to say Big Brother rise to the song so I think Big Mama Thorton and Janis Joplin recorded ball and chain at about the same time because if I'm not mistaken when Janis heard Big Mama Thorton perform it thought and hadn't recorded the song yet. That's correct it was not available on record and when it I think 1st did come out it was on a very tiny label I mean at this point Big Mama Thorton had her star had kind of fallen as far as the record industry goes so the version that most people heard became the version that Big Brother in the holding company did at the Monterey Pop Festival in June of 1967 which was really their breakthrough performant. But they'd started doing that song I guess they'd been doing it for probably about 8 or 9 months before they did it at Monterey Pop and it kind of gradually evolved as they did it you can hear it on some bootlegs and things like that and here you know a little bit different but Janis just dug into the phrasing of that song they've slowed it way down and it just had this. Heavy intensity to it that was the perfect vehicle for Janice says vocal abilities and also her ability to tap into those deep emotions and let them come through her voice so I thought I would be interesting to hear the Big Mama starting recording and the Janis Joplin recording back to back so we can hear something of you know what influenced Janis Joplin and how she made it her own so here's Big Mama Thorton followed by Janis Joplin and both of these recordings were made in 1968. When. You. Would. What are the legal limits. So I was Big Mama Thorton followed by Janis Joplin and Big Brother and the Holding Company all that recorded and 1968 and my guest is Holly George Warren author of a new biography of Janis Joplin called Janice. Janis Joplin had a very unconventional a very rebellious life but she grew up in a very you know I think we can say conventional family in Port Arthur Texas Her father worked in the oil industry her mother taught Sunday school sang in the church choir tell us a little bit about her family life before she struck out on her. Janice came from a very close knit family growing up in Port Arthur Texas but her parents were quite different from one another Her mom was pretty much a traditionalist who wanted Janice to grow up with those fifty's kind of values the white picket fence and and all that kind of thing and made Janice's beautiful cradle and you know petticoated dresses and all that the dad however was Janice called him a secret intellectual though he was a mid-level management job at Texaco when he came home at night he listened to Bach . He read hefty tomes on philosophy and history and most unusual in Port Arthur Texas he was an atheist never went to church and you know Janice was you know they went to an evangelical Christian church she was baptized by immersion saying in the choir and her mother was quite religious came from a rich religious family her family was from Nebraska but there were these 2 kinds of messages coming to Janice to think outside the box but then also to follow society's norms she was a tomboy she her her dad apparently really wanted a son and Janice was an only child until she was 6 she I think was most influenced by her father so artistically Janis Joplin thought of herself early on as a visual artist who also enjoyed singing but she didn't think of herself as a singer with a capital ass or you know as a performer so what was her early experience singing what got her to actually start singing in front of people and starting to take it seriously. In 1962 she moved to Austin Texas enroll at u.t. And found this cool little combo called the Waller Creek boys who are mostly doing folk and bluegrass kind of tunes an acoustic little group they heard her voice and were blown away now Janice believe it or not was quite shy about singing publicly and like I said she did the glee club in the church choir but with this bluesy for these records that she had gone to great lengths to find and learn obscure blues songs which she taught to the wall or Creek boys she found a vehicle to actually began performing and build an audience and that's just what happened 1st on campus there at these folk sing in Austin Texas and then at a place that still exists called thread kills where the gentleman named Kenneth Threadgill who was a big Jimmy Rogers fan had Jimmy Rogers records and hillbilly records on the jukebox just went ballistic over Janice and the play started getting packed when the Waller Creek boys would perform and Janis loved that feeling of people applauding her yelling out you know song requests and things like that and it totally changed her head around and she dove headfirst into being a musician my guest is Holly George Warren author of a new biography of Janis Joplin We'll talk more after a break but 1st let's hear how Joplin sounded in the early sixty's when she was starting out I'm Terry Gross and this is Fresh Air. This is a song. Care of course and I do. My Lonnie Johnson back in the twenty's. Never much promise but he. Really. See. The new power Family Foundation supports w.h.y. Wise fresh air and its commitment to sharing ideas and encouraging meaningful conversation support for n.p.r. Comes from this station and from Subaru featuring the 3 row ascent with seating for up to 8 and a choice of 2nd row captains terms loves it's what makes Subaru Subaru learn more at Subaru dot com and from the Annie e. Casey Foundation developing solutions to ensure that families and communities have opportunities to create a brighter future for America's youth more information is available at a c f dot org On the next morning edition catching a spy is no easy task now computers can be programmed to find insider threats they don't just predict the future they cost the future but are their conclusions reliable Also a new h.b.o. Series puts a different spin on superheroes shouldn't we be a little worried about people who put on masks listen for all kinds of stories on the next Morning Edition from n.p.r. News. As oys even catch N.P.R.'s Morning Edition weekdays from 6 to 9 support for fresh air is provided by the make his creative district proudly highlighting over 160 artists in the make us Valley through support of the arts art education galleries live music in community events more information is available at make us creative district dot com make is Colorado at the intersection of art an adventure. This is Fresh Air I'm Terry Gross let's get back to my interview with Holly George Warren author of a new biography of Janis Joplin George Warren writes about how Joplin grew up in segregated Texas but was able to cross musical cultural and sexual boundaries and become an icon of the counterculture she was there at pivotal moments in sixty's rock history the Monterey Pop Festival the vibrant Haight Ashbury scene in San Francisco what stock Joplin's brief life was ended by a heroin overdose in 1970 when she was 27 when we left off we were talking about how early in her career Joplin started building an audience in Texas clubs singing folk music bluegrass and blues then she moved west she goes to San Francisco and becomes part of Big Brother in the holding company the band how do they all get together. Well interestingly Terry a lot of people don't realize that the time she joined Big Brother in the holding company was in June 1966 that was actually the 3rd time she had been out there to salmon Cisco So in January 1963 a week after the week that Janice toured 20 years old she had hiked to San Francisco and started a career so-called career sleeping and basements and living off $5.00 a day or whatever singing Bessie Smith songs and some originals that she had started writing in folk labs in the Bay Area and North Beach she 1st met your Macau can then Jerry Garcia they were doing the same kind of thing at little open mike nights and sunny little folk clubs so she did that for about 3 years things started to take a bad turn as far as some self destructive habits that she picked up all there so she ended back up back in Texas for a year in 1965 started singing again on that circuit in Houston with Guy Clark Townes Van Zandt. And then Chet Helms who had stayed in San Francisco was managing this band of musicians called Big Brother in the holding company they called their is their music freak rock because it was lots of feedback and super loud electric guitars cetera and they decided they wanted a female singer in the band now Janis had never ever performed with electric instruments before she went to San Francisco to give it a try and just completely change her head around performing and singing with these roaring electric guitars bass and drums and just the whole ballroom vibe of that was going on in some of the Sco in the summer of $66.00 ad places like the Avalon Ballroom the Fillmore which was so different from anything she had ever done before musically really difficult decision for her after the Monterey Pop Festival when she was on screen and people could really see she is a star everyone in the music industry who she worked with was trying to talk her out of leaving big brother in the holding company and just going solo and Big Brother in the holding company and just they'd all just moved in together they were happy with the arrangement they had and she seemed to like know that the band wasn't up to her standards musically but she didn't want to leave them can you talk about how painful it was for her to figure out what to do. Janice had 2 sides one was she loved having that community that family of Big Brother and the holding company who really gave her the underpinnings to work out her musicianship to climb the ladder you know she was very ambitious from the beginning Big Brother was kind of this cool you know freaky you know hanging out improvisational band but they were not it was all about feel with them they were not these precise musicians that tried to play every part perfectly every time Janice on the other hand she had that Perfectionist mindset when it came to her music she wanted to be the best singer she wanted to be perfect she was the 1st one in the recording studio in the last one to leave she worked really hard to be as good as she possibly could and she was also a restless soul when it came to her music she didn't want to stay with just one style one Sound of Music and also belting the way she was the Banshee wail that she developed with Big Brother and the holding company that really was not sustainable that was going to record voice so she wanted to sing with more nuance and she liked Jazz she liked Broadway show tunes you know she wanted to try lots of soul music r. And b. There were a lot of things that she wanted to do that she was worried that Big Brother the holding company either couldn't or wouldn't want to do so it became just a matter of time before she finally did leave the band. So she gets a new band the cosmic blues band and records with that album doesn't do very well in the group disband there was such a backlash against Janice when she had the audacity to leave her band and go out on her own Janice had no period but. Big Brother in the holding company and her new role as band leader to even kind of warm up to that role which was really different for her and there was so much pressure on her too because the critics started just ripping her to shreds about her new style that she was doing the fact that she had a horn section she was very influenced by the music coming out of Stax Records and recorded a Muscle Shoals she loved that 1st Atlantic record that Aretha dead so she aspires to that kind of sound she started doing shows just a couple months later in New York City at the Fillmore East there really was a time you know this was back in the sixty's when you had to follow up the head fall of the hit and piece of my heart had been a big kid cheap thrills had been a big hit so they were trying to immediately capitalize on that where is the band itself needed a little time to just kind of get their harmonizing together get the sound right work out the horn section so it did overpower her vocals you know those kind of things but it turned out she did her biggest shows ever with that band everything from Woodstock to touring Europe selling out Royal Albert Hall in London Ed Sullivan Show really a lot of hope high profile gigs during that period. So her career really starts taking off but her personal life has problems you know she is on and off shooting meth she ends up doing other drugs. So during this period when she's recording with the cosmic blues band and she's separated from the band that she knew so well that she was so close to Big Brother in the holding company what's happening in her personal life. When she was out on the road constantly backed up by what became known as cosmic blues band Janice started turning to heroin as a way to just kind of numb. Herself from all the pressures and the fear of what it was like being a solo artist at that point time in her career again she was still very much a focal point of media there was articles about her all the time and she had developed this whole you know hard drinkin blues mama image that she had so this was a secret vice of hers that she picked up unfortunately it was heroin was pretty prevalent No no one really realized at the time and so she gradually got addicted to heroin in 1989. And did she kick heroin before going back to. She tried to kick heroin a few times she finally did almost for good in 1970 right about the time she had put together a new band which became called Full Tilt Boogie Band and she she she got off heroin for a while actually by going to Brazil for Carnival and I mean it's so hard to believe that she was a massive rock star she was hitchhiking around in Brazil for a while totally cleaned up really loved the feeling of being clean and back to her old self again sadly she relapsed when she got back to California and then finally she quit in the spring of 1970 and she stayed off of it for about 4 or 5 months until tragically she relapsed again while recording Pearl in Los Angeles got a very strong dose very pure kind of like what's happened horribly in recent times with fentanyl and things like that it was much more pure than she had ever used before and she her tolerance was down she was by herself overdosed and died October 4th 1970. If you're just joining us my guest is Holly George Warren and her new book is a biography of Janis Joplin called Janice when we take a short break and we'll be right back this is Fresh Air. Support for n.p.r. Comes from this station and from the estate of Joan b. Cross whose bequest serves as an enduring investment in the future of public radio and seeks to help n.p.r. Be the model for high quality journalism in the 21st century and from the law firm Cooley yellow teeth with offices in the u.s. Europe and Asia Cooley advises entrepreneur investors financial institutions and established companies around the world where innovation meets the law this is Fresh Air and if you're just joining us my guest is Holly George Warren she's written a new biography of Janis Joplin called Janice. One of her best and most famous songs was recorded right before she died for her final album pearl that was released posthumously I'm thinking of me and Bobby McGee. So before we hear of that tell us about how she came to record that Kris Kristofferson song. Kris Kristofferson What an amazing songwriter and also from Texas just like Janice she learned that song actually from the great Bobby Neuwirth who had been Dylan's Ada Compton did the same role with Janice he actually heard it and her manager Albert Grossman's office played by Gordon Lightfoot who had heard it no one knew b. And Me and Bobby McGee no one knew who Kris Kristofferson was at that point he learned the song raced over to the Chelsea Hotel and said Janet you've got to hear this song she went nuts over the song she immediately learned to play it on acoustic guitar and sing it and she actually did it for the 1st time in December 1969 with the cosmic blues band backing her up in Nashville she also got to hear a bootleg of her doing Sunday Morning Coming Down another great Crist Kristofferson song she finally did meet him in 1970 again introduced by Bobby Neuwirth they totally hit it off and she just loved his songwriting and my theory is that she would have continued doing more of that kind of style least maybe for her next record with that kind of. You know poetic country cosmic country if you will kind of sound yeah and it's just so interesting to hear the instrumentation on this because it is very country and it is very you know it's the band sounds great they also sound like real pros and it's such a contrast to the 2 of the really like Ranchi. The feedback noise kind of sound that she starts with with Big Brother. Yeah full tilt boogie was a very cool band and it really worked well Janice's voice and I think she would have pursued that sound she had checked out Linda Ronstadt of the Troubadour she loved the Flying Burrito Brothers and Gram Parsons So you know she started out like I said playing at thread gills and also in doing rows Maddicks hillbilly buggy songs I mean she definitely has some country songs she even knew Carter Family songs so she had a vast encyclopedic knowledge of music so I think that would have been a phase at least for a while she would have pursued before probably trying you know more another genre of music so this is Janis Joplin and her posthumously released album Prawle Me and Bobby McGee. Just been rude weight and 1st train going to be. Feted it was meant. To diesel day just a farmer a throne a song the way to new things. And a. Whole . Thing song that. Was Janis Joplin for. Her last album. And that was me and Bobby McGee and my guest is Holly George Warren the author of a new biography of Janis Joplin called Janice I mean that's such a great track and I say something about it yeah when Janis heard that song Me and Bobby McGee I think she's so identified with those lyrics I mean she had done that she'd had tried to round you know she had to California and she knew those feelings expressed so beautifully by Kris Kristofferson in that song you know Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose I mean that's Janis Joplin. So why did you want to write a biography of Janis Joplin you've written biographies of. Gene Autry you know a country singer I love and Alex Chilton who is a great songwriter and singer So why did you want to write about. Like Gene Autry and Alex Chilton. Janis Joplin was a game changer and created a new kind of music new kind of musical persona but what really got me going to want to you know go down the rabbit hole and learn everything I could about Janice was I felt that her musicianship had not been explored and again I like everybody else was bamboozled I thought she was just as blues feeling mama of the just all about the feel and it was after I got to listen to some tapes from of Columbia's vaults of Janice in the studio with Paul Roth's child known for being this very authoritarian producer but here he was in the studio working on Pearl and Janice was just coming up with idea after idea you know let's do this guitar part now let's change it let's change the tempo no way let's you know she was basically you know co-producing this record with her and that turned my head around like wait a minute she's knows what she's talking about I realized that that part of her story had not been told and I wanted to find out how she started her journey and what she did to get to where she was from Port Arthur teenager in the fifty's to Janis Joplin the queen you know of the whole scene with Cisco sound how did she do that so that's what started me on my quest. How old were you when you 1st started listening to Janis Joplin and when was that. My 1st clear clear memory of Janice was seeing her on The Dick Cavett Show which she was on a few times and just seeing her that image and you know she was and she was clearly really smart and then her whole look her whole sound just blew me away although of course I didn't say that at the time but my 1st album that I got was when I joined the Columbia House Record Club and I got 12 albums for a penny and I got Pearl and I still have my original copy of pearl from back in 1901 when it came out and I just played that record all the time how does Janis Joplin's music sound different to you now now that you're decades older than you were as and you've heard so much more music since then what's really struck me as I. Dove into Janice's music was all the different styles and different sounds that she could make with her voice I guess I just thought she just kind of started singing she was this full blown singer and it just came out that way but what I realized from working on the book and doing all the research and listening to tons of music is how she worked with her voice how she would purposefully evolve and change her style and how she could sound so different depending on what the songs were what the genre was and you know also just technically what she could do just you know things like being able to hit like 3 notes that once you know just her technical prowess I've learned about and it just didn't wasn't just the natural talent that she had she worked really hard to become that good of a singer that's one of the points that you make in your book about the difference between how Janice Joplin sometimes presented herself to the public into the press and what she was really like in real life she worked really hard on her singing and she tried many things and she you know she worked hard to become great but you know it sounds like a journalist asked her about it was like well it's all about feeling and it was way more than that I know her idea she really tried to hide that side of her she didn't want people to know how hard she worked just like she tried to hide the fact that she was a total bookworm and read all read books all the time I mean when I read the letters that she wrote to her parents that's when I learned so much about the real Janice that we didn't know about from just her person and the image that she created she would write her parents with these descriptions of what it's like you know overdubbing or double tracking her vocals or what the mixing process was like to be she was getting all technical on all that kind of stuff she was fascinated by the recording process she loved it and then again I. Realized that she was a real scholar of music she worked hard to find records to analyze the records and that was a big surprise for me to learn how much work she put into it and how long she spent working on this to become the singer that she was. How did George Warren thank you so much for talking with us while this has been so much fun thank you Terry. George Warren's new biography of Janis Joplin is called Janice her life and music after we take a short break t.v. Critic David Bianculli will review the new h.b.o. Mini series Catherine the Great This is Fresh Air. Did you know n.p.r. Listeners are more likely to buy products and services from companies that support public radio Hi I'm Jessica. Jessica. 3577. In front of. This is Fresh Air Tonight h.b.o. Premier's a new 4 part mini series called Catherine the Great starring Helen Mirren as the 18th century Russian Empress our t.v. Critic David Bianculli has this review for actress Helen Mirren playing royalty is nothing new She won an Emmy for playing Queen Elizabeth the 1st in a previous h.b.o. Many series she won an Oscar for playing Queen Elizabeth the 2nd and in 1901 closer to the start of her career she starred in one of the best of t.v. Shakespeare plays stealing the show in a Midsummer Night's Dream as titanium queen of the fairies but Helen Mirren qualifies as acting royalty even when she's not acting royally. The rule which may be her most famous and impressive of all was playing detective Jane Tennison in a series of prime suspect mini series for p.b.s. Hers was a troubled character but a shrewd one she was an anti-hero before that became fashionable on t.v. And her riveting skills of being civil to any Asli abrasive and compelling are also in full view in this new h.b.o. Drama as she takes on the title role in Catherine the Great. After all here's a woman who took the throne from her husband filled her court with a string of lovers and held on to power in Russia for more than 30 years at a time when both France and America were undergoing major revolutions. This Catherine the Great is directed by Philip Martin who directed Mirren in The most recent Prime Suspect installment and who also directed several episodes of the Crown. He and the writer Nigel Williams depend greatly on their leading lady to carry the narrative and the drama which she does with ease Here's she is as the Russian Empress walking the grounds of the palace with her just coming of age son Paul played by Joseph Quinn they come upon her minister and confidant played by Rory can hear who was recently seen in another h.b.o. Mini series years and years she accuses them of talking to each other too often and as the Emperor's handles and dismisses her son then turns on her minister the range of Miriam's emotions are evident in this single scene. There is. Not. I think. Reached his majority. Many people. Off the witch. Yes. So many people. On. Campus again. I think you should get married. Why don't you run along and think about beautiful women. Think you. Are missing out on. The most never. Just as neither of those characters is close to standing up to the Queen few of the actors except for can ear and another costar Jason Clarke match Helen Mirren at all the historically based story told here with all the court intrigue and scandals and betrayals is interesting and Mirren is wonderful but other than that and other than her this Catherine the Great is more no worthy for its lavish costumes and scenery no other roles are really fleshed out and the script amounts to little more than a historical Greatest Hits' bouncing from well known event to event if you want to truly great drama about the last female ruler of Russia stick with the original Marlena Dietrich in the surprisingly decadent still amazing 1934 film The Scarlet emperors by comparison this new h.b.o. Mini series except for an excellent star turn by Helen Mirren is more like Catherine the Ok. David Bianculli is editor of the website t.v. Worth watching and a professor of t.v. Studies at Rowan University he reviewed H.B.O.'s mini series Catherine the Great which begins tonight tomorrow on fresh air we'll talk about the u.s. Pullout of the Kurdish controlled part of Syria and what it means for the region with The Washington Post Beirut bureau chief Liz Sly She's been covering the Syrian civil war since it started in 2011 she's in the u.s. To receive an award for courage in journalism I hope you'll join us. Executive producer is Danny Miller our senior producer today is Roberta our technical director an engineer as. Our associate producer of digital media is. To rescind Madden directed Today show I'm Terry Gross. Support for n.p.r. Comes from this station and from lifelong lifelong Norton offers cyber security solutions to help keep hackers out of consumers' devices and personal information more about the ever evolving digital world Life Lock dot com and from Jane and Gerald couch are supporting the children's movement of Florida dedicated to helping all children enter school with the social emotional and intellectual skills needed to succeed more information is available at Children's Movement Florida dot org. Support for fresh air is provided by the Durango olive oil company announcing their fresh off the press monthly a newsletter featuring new recipes products specials and more located at 640 main avenue with a wide variety of olive oils balsamic Midwinter's and gourmet foods Durango olive oil dot com Thanks for tuning in this is. Katie and Durango u.s.w. Floria Vista and yes to go to the springs we are 4 corners public radio you can find us on line at k.s.u. T. Dot org. From Appalachian had to Argentina it's a truly unique take on bluegrass with the band shape up a lot shakes their story starts when Joe trooper moved to Buenos Aires banjo in tow I mean there were also no 5 string banjo teachers struck on a corner the market he formed with 3 former students and now they have an album out produced by Bela Fleck hear the story and a blistering live set of the next World Cafe. Sounds like an amazing bluegrass World Cafe coming up here at 10 o'clock support for fresh air is provided by Bass in printing offering digital printing copying graphic design and more including banners large format and fine art prints base and printing gone beyond just printing at 143072nd Avenue in Durango more information is available at Basin printing dot com at 97024752 elf.