Ted Technology Entertainment Design design is that really would stem from I'm never known but delivered Ted conferences around the world gift of the human imagination we've had to believe in impossible things the true nature of reality beckons. Just beyond those talks those ideas kept it for radio. From n.p.r. . I'm Guy Raz coming up. Great leaders best leaders challenge the status quo know how to yell without yelling they're driven by the people and it's all of the brighter future describing of where we're going what here to there looks like you know that gives me hope and we all need to release the leader that sits inside of us this episode inspired to action 1st this news. Live from n.p.r. News in Washington I'm Shay's Stevens the House Judiciary Committee is weighing comments from a panel of legal scholars on whether President Trump's dealings with the Ukraine constituted an impeachable offense and the arguments of Johnston reports on the committee's 1st public hearing and the impeachment inquiry the constitutional experts called by House Democrats were all in agreement that Trump's conduct toward Ukraine rises to the level of impeachment Michael Gerhardt a law professor at the University of North Carolina says the evidence points to several and offenses bribery abuse of power and soliciting a personal favor from a foreign leader to benefit himself personally obstructing justice and obstructing Congress the constitutional scholar called by House Republicans argues the case for n.p.t. And is quote woefully inadequate and in some respects dangerous He also told lawmakers that they shouldn't oust a sitting president just because they're angry Windsor Johnston n.p.r. News Washington George Washington University law professor Jonathan Turley was the lone Republican witness at today's hearing President Trump is praising Turkey's leader after meeting with him on the sidelines of the NATO summit near London as N.P.R.'s Michele Kelemen reports European leaders want the alliance to get tougher on Turkey Turkey's purchase of Russian surface to air missiles rattled NATO and some alliance members have been critical of Turkey's military incursion into northern Syria but President Trump says he thinks Turkish president rejected the air to one is doing a good job in Syria so would you say that we took over the oil we have so if you is where the oil is in the sewer like you and they can police their own border and Trump says he believes the safe zone in northern Syria is quote working out well administration officials have said that the u.s. Has kept troops in Syria to go after remnants of ISIS Michele Kelemen n.p.r. News the State Department. Georgia's governor Brian camp has tapped a businesswoman Kelly Lefler to fill an open u.s. Senate seat and Leffler will succeed Senator Johnny Isaacson who is retiring for health reasons w a b e s m a heard has reaction to the announcement since news of the appointment leaked together kept us face a lot of backlash from prominent conservatives and Trump allies who called Lefler not conservative enough Many told kept he should appoint someone else that you know it's been kept at Leffler vouched for her pro 2nd amendment abortion priorities and her support for the president made a neighbor herself in the fight it's a world it has no political experience them or her reporting visuals at Pearl Harbor Naval Shipyard say a sailor has shot and killed 2 civilian workers and injured a 3rd before taking his own life the incident occurred this afternoon prompting a lockdown at the base which has since been lifted there's no word on a possible motive for the shooting You're listening to n.p.r. News the Florida man acquitted in the 2012 slaying of Trayvon Martin is suing the teenager's parents their lawyer prosecutors and a book publisher for defamation George Zimmerman is seeking $100000000.00 for alleged malicious prosecution and conspiracy his lawsuit alleges the prosecution's witness gave false testimony at this trial Zimmerman was a neighborhood watch volunteer in a Sanford Florida development where he killed Martin during a struggle. A band of heavy more sure is bringing much needed rain to Southern California and Arizona but N.P.R.'s Nathan Rott reports that new research warns that the same type of weather events pose a big risk across much of the coastal West atmospheric rivers are what they sound like rivers of moisture in the air they don't get the same attention is hurricanes or wildfires but new research from the Scripps Institution of Oceanography says they pose a 1000000000 dollar a year risk in the West due to flooding mudslides and other impacts and that risk is only expected to increase with the changing climate Tom Corrigan is a research economist at Scripps who led the study atmospheric rivers are predicted to get longer wider and wider over the coming century so storms become more intense we must be prepared for increasing the economic impact Courneya who is at the United Nations climate conference in Spain says it's another reminder of the need to cut climate warming emissions and to prepare for the change ahead Nathan Rott n.p.r. News stocks closed higher today with the Dow gaining 146 points the Nasdaq rose 46 I'm say Stevens n.p.r. News in Washington support for n.p.r. Comes from n.p.r. Stations and other contributors include f j c a foundation of donor advised funds working to maximize the m. Pact of charitable giving and to create customized philanthropic solutions learn more at f.c.c. Dot org and the n.e.a. Casey Foundation. Support for Alaska Public Media comes from Continental Subaru and the Subaru Forester standard symmetrical all wheel drive standard eyesight driver assist technology and 33 mpg learn more at Continental dash Subaru dot com and from advanced dental solutions with Dr Dale Burke and Dr Mark Williams offering a patient focused approach to dental care including general dentistry implants and t.m.j. Therapy more at Anchorage dental Solutions dot com and from members like you thank you it's the Ted Radio Hour from n.p.r. I'm Guy Raz So have you ever wondered what it would take to start a movement a short while ago astonishing news from East Germany where the East German authorities have said you know essence of the Berlin wall doesn't mean anything anymore a movement that actually changes a culture or a society was the Mandela was the Nelson Mandela a free man taking his 1st steps into a new South Africa something that inspires people to take to the streets the Arab Spring sprayed stick Egypt celebrations as it was announced President Hosni Mubarak's that's here who had come to him and the. Movement to me is a revolution and I teach world history so I teach revolutions it's a momentous change in ideas in culture in attitudes This is Diane walk Rogers and as she mentioned she teaches world history to high school students and to and says most movements have a few things in common that make them successful you need to have a core group of leaders who can unite a population who can organize the protest in the marches who are eagerly engaged and have the resources to push this movement forward. Not too long ago Diane unexpectedly went from teaching her students about. The history of movements to watching one unfold a movement that happened to be led by those very same students. Here to embark Roger Penske. I teach history and Marjorie Stoneman Douglas High School. And February 14th 2008. My school experience one of the worst mass school shootings in American history I don't remember everything but I do remember I went into crisis mode I lined up the kids I held up a side so they could follow me through the hall just like a fire drill I heard shots from one direction we made it outside we made it to safety 'd. This senseless violence this was the most difficult question I've been asked. And if you're not sure where to start look to my students is wrong models they are armed with think credible communication skills and the sense of citizenship that I find so inspiring thank. There is a widespread popular anger at an injustice that's why I say it's a revolution it's caused by exploitation this time it's of our youth it's of our public school kids. Today on the show inspired to action ideas about what it takes to inspire people to take up a cause or follow a leader and produce real change and why some movements succeed and others don't. And damn walk Rogers says her students from Parkland remind her of leaders who inspired some of the greatest movements for social change not only are these kids really bright and have terrific communication skills but when I talked about emotional intelligence they know how to yell without yelling. If you were there in Washington and you saw Emma and how she took that time to be silent that to me was as powerful as Dr Martin Luther King's I Have a Dream speech because when I went there at 1st I'm thinking they're not getting it they're not getting it. And then when Emma got out there and she said nothing and she forced people to start to feel and to listen to their own thoughts that's yelling without yelling and I was looking around at the crowd I go yeah people are thinking now people want change now. These are public school kids engaged in the issue of gun regulation and they're Devore has moved our hearts and they shouldn't have to do this on their own they're asking you and they're asking all of us to get involved. This isn't a spectator sport so. What's the right answer I don't know listen I'm no gun control expert I teach the humanity. To be human is to learn and to be part of a civilisation is to share your knowledge this is kind of honest brave and sincere and gauge me is what I ask of my students what I expect of myself as a teacher and what I demand of you now. When you when you look at the political landscape in the United States. Especially when it comes to guns in America do you think that that the situation can actually change and do you think that this time it's different Absolutely it's different change over time is occurring that's one of the big things we have to teach in a.p. World history cultural attitudes have changed over time. At one of the wakes for one of my students I was talking to the brother and. He sat there and he completely understood and said you know 50 years ago everybody in America smoked nobody would have thought that there'd be a day where you can smoke in a restaurant or on an airplane or even in a park but you know look what happened and I think what's really interesting about this group is you know they're not willing to wait. The adults didn't enact those changes and now they're saying we're going to change the situation now they're not sitting around they're not waiting for others they've jumped on it. Is a history teacher Marjorie stuntman Douglas High School in park on Florida and you can see her entire talk to dot com. On the show today inspire to action ideas about rallying people to a cause bigger than themselves and building that into a movement of movement is when people move. When they choose to go from here to there this is Simon Sinek He's a behavioral researcher and author of the book Start with why and here to there can be defined in any way whether it's social change or political change or the manner in which we conduct business but that the people choose to change the way we do things from this to that So yes movements can come from anywhere but they have to be voluntary so why do some of them work and others don't well invitations. And there was no website to check the date how do you do that well Dr King wasn't the only man in America who suffered in a piece of the rights America in fact some of his ideas were bad but he had a gift he didn't go around telling people what needed to change in America he went around and told people what he believed I believe I believe I believe he told people and people who believed what he believed took his cause and they made it their own and they told people and some of those people created structures to get the word out even more people and lo and behold $250000.00 people showed up on the right day on the right time to hear him speak how many of them showed up for him 0. They should have for themselves it's what they believed about America that got them to travel on a bus for 8 hours to stand in the sun in Washington for in the middle of August it's what they believe and it wasn't about black versus white 25 percent of the audience was white Dr King believe that there are 2 types of laws in this world those that are made by a higher authority and those that are made by men and not until all the laws that are made by men are consistent with the laws that are made by the higher authority will we live in a just world it just so happens that the civil rights movement was the perfect thing to help him bring his cause to life we followed not him not for him but for ourselves and by the way he gave the I Have a Dream speech not the I Have a plan speech. What is it about like human nature that motivates us to action is it do we need to be inspired we are tribal animals and one of the things that ensures the success of the tribe and indeed the species is our sense of belonging and belonging comes from a common sense of values and beliefs and sometimes those things are understood but they start to have scale the ability to scale when when they're directed and when someone does actually lead us and can articulate where we're going and so we think about great movements like the civil rights movement or the anti-apartheid movement South Africa right or even movement like the the Russian Revolution right I mean there were leaders who inspired people to take action how like what does a leader have what why do some people have that ability to inspire What is it that they have. First of all they have deep underlying belief in something bigger than themselves and the best leaders are actually the best followers because they don't see themselves as the thing to be followed they actually see the. Selves as following a cause bigger than themselves they actually see themselves in service to something else. It's the rest of us who choose to follow that. In just a moment why the world could use more of those kinds of leaders and what it takes to become one. On the show today inspired to action I'm Guy Raz near listening to the Ted Radio Hour from n.p.r. Support for Alaska Public Media comes from Alpine Air Alaska providing helicopter travel throughout Alaska since 1991 with locations in Anchorage Girdwood and Seward learn more at Alpine Air Alaska dot com and from Siri fireweed conference center offering 2000 square feet of conference space for training seminars and meetings rental details at fireweed Center dot com slash conference California has seen some horrific fires in recent years burning millions of acres in ruining the lives of tens of thousands of people but the origins of these fires started over 100 years ago a massive conflagration a hurricane a fire if you can imagine I will learn about the 3000000 acre wildfire that permanently changed how we respond to fires in our forests Thursday a 2 repeating at 8 on f.m. 91 point one Alaska Public Media. Support for the Ted Radio Hour comes from c. 3 dot a i c 3 dot Ai software enables organizations to use artificial intelligence at enterprise scale solving previously unsolvable business problems learn more at c 3 dot Ai from little passports their new science junior subscription for kids aims to inspire curiosity designed to bring projects to life while utilizing new science concepts more at little passports dot com and from the listeners who support this n.p.r. Station. It's that Ted Radio Hour from n.p.r. I'm Guy Raz And on the show today inspired to action and just before the break we were hearing from author and behavioral researcher Simon Sinek and Simon was explaining why certain movements like the Civil Rights Movement inspire people to change the world others never seem to catch fire. Ones that fizzle out I think very often we're driven by marketing and money in other words it's a little bit like advertising you know companies know that if you spend money on advertising you'll see your sales go up and if you stop spending money on advertising the sales go down and I think the movements that survive are the ones that are driven by the people and people who hear a vision of the future that they believe in they find some sense of belonging they take that cause and make it their own and they themselves become leaders in their own communities they themselves choose to spread a message to other people. You know there are challenges that we face that are so he'd. Like climate change right I mean climate change is something you could argue is on the order of the greatest challenges we've ever had to face. And yet it doesn't seem like like the masses around the world have been inspired to take action so why why do you think that is well 1st of all when there is change or things are different or difficult it's easy to stoke fear and the best way to to be pessimism is with optimism and I think one of the challenges that we face with all of these what should be movements but don't seem to be movements is a we don't know who the leaders of the movement are who is articulating the message we don't have anybody who is preaching a vision of the future that is brighter and different than the one that we live in now or they do it in terms that are really hard to understand they're so big and so a more focus that they lose 10 debility. Like make the planet better like I how do you even conceive of that protect the environment and at fundamentally what makes a movement a movement is you put it into terms that are individual that we would have Stalin allegedly said the death of one man is a tragedy and the death of a 1000000 is a statistic and the problem is the quote unquote leaders of our modern movement seem to speak in statistics and that doesn't resonate I mean go back to Martin Luther King you know I have a dream that one day little black children will hold hands in the playground with little white choke black and black won't be able to draw on a hand right. At 1st but. He did say that we will all get along and all the races will you know feel like they're together he talked about you can literally imagine a little black child holding hands with a little white child on a playground we can imagine it totally And so what we do is we use these individual stories whether they're true or whether they're hypothetical as metaphors for the big idea because we can relate to the small story because we can relate ourselves to the small story. And sent to politicians now with a comprehensive 12 point plan to not inspiring anybody. Because they were leaders and there are those who lead leaders hold a position of power or authority but those who lead inspire us. With other individuals organizations we follow those who lead because we have to because we want to. We follow those who lead not for them. But for ourselves. To think that. We are at a place the sort of crossroads. In human history where because of the dissemination of information the access to information that. Paradoxically even though we can connect in so many ways more easily than ever before it's harder for people to rally around one thing for massive numbers of people to rally around one thing what is more inspiring. You know connecting with somebody. An online forum about common beliefs or showing up to a rally and holding hands with a stranger hugging someone and crying in the face of injustice READY READY. It's those human experiences to look someone in the eye to cry with someone to hold their hands to show up and feel a part of something when you show up and there are throngs of people and you don't know them and in any other circumstance you would never be friends for them but for the fact that they showed up we become brothers and sisters in that moment and those experiences inspire us to do it again and we will get on another train or a bus or a car and we will drive another 7 and 8 hours simply to stand in the sun for hours to say I believe I believe I believe. We're going to back out with these incredibly human experiences that make movements move and you have that. Right now . After Simon Sinek has talked about how great leaders inspire action is the 3rd most few Ted talk of all time you can see that he and his other talk at ted dot com. On the show today inspire to action ideas about what inspires people to follow leaders and then become leaders themselves like in the case of Iceland and a woman named a vigorous fin book editor. C was an incredibly. Intelligent but humble woman I got out of the country and meet everybody and we had wonderful time together that cared so much about the people that say would sleep in people's homes since that of going to go tells because they want to know that the press that the votes were in. I will never forget this. Picture when she steps out on the balcony of her own home with her daughter by her side and home Nick to dress that some woman had knitted for her and center as she had just wanted and this picture of the ways he created people in such a warm. Homely manner with her daughter next to her. Was for ever is the picture in my mind because it was so different from every other exhibition I had seen of power and leadership. And so this was a time where you had emerging female leaders around the world did endure a Gandhi in gold in my year in the market Thatcher and President de dissuades was elected in Iceland yes some say was the 1st one to be democratically elected in a direct election to all the people but she was an amazing president and so I grew up put searing her 16 years in office and I don't think I'm alone when I say c.n.c. . Wired us see inspired by how see did leaderships he cared about then why are men secured about women and women's impact on society and he cared about culture and languages and our ability to talk to each other and and see had such a clear vision in these areas and see likes to tell the story of how her presidency did not just influence young girls but also Blowitz because after she had been in office for a couple of terms of a young boy came to see her once and said Madam me these boys also grow up to be presidents. And you can imagine that that little boy's shift in perspective was probably happening to hundreds even thousands of kids throughout Iceland including a then 11 year old Thomas daughter my friends tell me that I said in school who around that time that I was going to run for president one day. I don't remember saying that but I do remember very well this feeling that this was historic that this was different and that this was better for all of us. There was something about the way see carried herself and how see appealed to all of us that made me feel incredibly proud. Grew up to be a pretty important public figure in Iceland She's a businesswoman an entrepreneur she helped start Reykjavik university and then she co-founded a female run investment firm and in 2016 a Facebook petition got started encouraging Hala to run for president. And to be honest my 1st reaction was who am I to run for president it's a huge responsibility it's a big leadership job I was full of self-doubt and what women often suffer from impostor syndrome you know I didn't think I was good enough and I think it's a normal question to ask yourself Who am I to serve but I think a better question 2 things. More about is Who are we not to if we really care and we think the world is not right and global issues need to be solved if we really believe this then I think those of us who do need to ask ourselves what am I doing because we can't point out the window and ask other people to solve it we all need to look in the mirror and released the leader that sits inside of us. How Our Thomas starter picks up the rest of the story from the Ted stage. That journey of my life. Started with potentially as many as 20 candidates it boiled down to 9 candidates qualifying ultimately the race came down to 4 of us 3 men and me. Thanks. But that's not all that. So on May 9th 45 days before Election Day It was not looking too good for me. The polls had me at one percent. I mean that that was a humbling day. I bet I bet I mean you did you start to have 2nd thoughts. I didn't but everyone around me more and less but I think it was the best day of the campaign for me. And the reason is very simple because when you are that vulnerable when you're at one percent in the polls you have nothing to lose Yeah and so on that day I stopped listening to all the people who told me I said do this or that to be presidential and I started listening to my own inner voice and really found the fire in the belly that made me make that decision and I ran the complain in line with who I am and what my principles and values are. So it would be an understatement to say that I had to work extremely hard to get my seat at the table and access to television because the network decided that they would only include those with 2.5 percent or more and the polls and the 1st debate. I found out on the afternoon of the 1st t.v. Debate that I would participate along with the 3 men and I found out on life t.v. That I came in that exactly 2.5 percent on the day of the 1st. So the foremost challenge says I had to face and overcome on this journey had to do with media muscle and money it proved hard for me to both get access on air time and media as a matter of fact the leading candidate appeared and broadcast media 87 times in the months leading up to the elections where I appeared 31 times. And I am not saying media is doing this consciously I think largely This has to do with unconscious bias so I did face this but I will say this to compliment the Icelandic media I got few if any comments about my hair and pant suit. So. We ran a positive campaign we'd probably change the tone of the lot. For all other spy doing. But even with one 3rd. One 3rd the financial resources only on entrepreneurialism team we managed to surprise everyone on election night when the 1st numbers came in I surprised myself. So that 1st numbers I came in neck to neck to the leading candidate at. Well to early because I didn't quite pull that but I came in 2nd and we went a long way from the one percent with nearly a 3rd of the vote. And it really is amazing. You know you talked about how a president big this inspired you and then And then of course you want to run for president and and who knows how many children you you know you may have inspired but you know as we know these changes don't happen overnight you know or were not always realizing the impact these things have until 20 or 30 or or 40 years later. No or not and I thought a lot about how much role models matter because even in my country with her as president for 16 years we then afterwards had a male president for 20 years and so after I ran for president myself I did them all interior teaching stand in my daughter's school and I asked all of these 13 year old boys and girls to draw some pictures for me and I told them I was coming in to talk about career choices and I asked them to please draw a picture of a president often entrepreneurialism and of a teacher all 3 things something I had to be or had worked at myself and so they all draw pictures and with you know all the kids I went to many many classes and all of the kids with 2 exceptions drew a male president male and trip and or and a female teacher so. This just tells us that even in the country that we generally consider to be leading the world when it comes to closing the gender gap and where we had this amazing female president for 16 years all of us think of a man when we think of a leader but I'm I mean I'm sure many girls and certainly my son were inspired by your campaign and there's a story that you even tell your ted talk about this group of preschool girls who stopped to kiss a poster of you like you've obviously made an impact on those girls saluting that event when someone sent me that photo and I still don't know who the kids are or even sent it but I was wearing the national soccer team jersey because we were playing the Euro Cup at the time and these 3 little girls and a boy they're walking out there and they just see and need to kiss my picture and that picture alone was enough of a moment for me I really thought this makes such a difference and there were other wins like that and I've since had countless stories grandmothers have approached me in the airport and told me about how their daughters say they're going to be presidents or say that they're going to run for office because they saw me and I got incredible messages and not just in Iceland but I've actually received messages from women all over the world and so I think you can have impact in so many ways I think you can win even if you don't become number one by just being there not acting like a man but being there a woman. Thomas daughter as of right now she has not decided whether she's going to run again but she is mentoring a number of women in out of Iceland who are interested in running for office you can see her entire talk at ted dot com. I'm sure today inspired to action ideas about building movements for change and in just a moment we're going to hear from one researcher who argues why leaders with charisma are almost always more effective they challenge the status quo that's the key ingredient they also engage in unconventional courageous behavior something that other people don't dare to do. They express strong emotions and carries my sensually is in the eye of the beholder so whether someone is charismatic or not does not depend on some sort of objective criteria it depends on what you see in them. I'm Guy Raz near listening to the Ted Radio Hour from n.p.r. . 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From Home Advisor committed to helping homeowners find the right pros for their home projects homeowners can read reviews book appointments and check cost guides for home projects at Home Advisor dot com or on the mobile app and from the any case the foundation. It's the Ted Radio Hour from n.p.r. I'm Guy Raz And on the show today ideas about the leaders and the movements that inspire us to take action and for you 1 May guess the key is charisma that's right here has been studying charismatic leaders for more than a decade ever since 2008 when he went to a speech Barack Obama gave in Berlin it was a very warm July day and I still vividly remembered what moment when he walked up to that stage and he took a while and he was waving and people were cheering and waking up the. Mom was at thank you and multiple times trying to almost make people stop. In Germany thank you for this extraordinary warm welcome then all of a sudden became very quiet. For thousands of years the people of this land of journey from the principal to nation state you know he started talking and 200000 people had gathered that afternoon in a place when I was listening and there was so little movement and I thought you know for someone who is charismatic that person should cheer people up should make people you know applaud raise their hand jump up and down do all of this energy stuff and it only happens when the leader permits that to happen right Paisley Barack Obama made a pollster. For people to cheer in a hall. And that's when we see the energy done it's when we see the jumping and that afternoon it became evident in the person Downing next to me who offered a speech I question the bit you know what was the stuff that he liked the most and so on and she was she was unable to recall anything she just said you know it's well it was amazing it was awesome and so she didn't take away any detail but what she did take away is that she wanted to go and vote and tell others about it and it led me to discover something. Now called the All truck effect. Picks up the side here from the. It is true that charismatic leaders instill positive emotions of us they make us feel great you're full of that new racial and yet a little bit too shy to express it in one word if you like we are awestruck. Now you may wonder Ok why is the ostrich effect important Well it turns out that psychologists have shown for many years that when people suppressed expression of their emotions as they do when they're all struck the intensity of the emotion increases inside of them but they also suffer from a lift and that means that they're less able to understand memorize and scrutinize messages so well they understood the stuff doesn't matter once they felt great about it once I felt that they had something taken away they follow and that means you follow that he does in part because of. So what is the connection between charisma and inspiring people to take action I think the Charismatics or the one who are extremely good at it spiraling action perhaps extremely good just at inspiring full stop where they get people to engage in action is the 2nd question yeah I'm thinking of someone like you know like Winston Churchill for example who is obviously a master at this yeah. Nothing you are. The charismatics used tactics in their speeches the 1st thing is that they start out mirroring the type of emotions that are already prevalent in the audience. You know . If I'm angry and the person steps on a stage and says you know I'm angry and so then I think how that person feels like I did for that person make speak to. That then the verge of a sudden I begin to question it and to kind of ask is it the right way to feel and he creates confusion in your audience and of course confusion is the best companion for someone who wants to exert influence to offer an alternative interpretation here and so in the last step to Bigley would discourage madness do this they offer a new interpretation they also call us to action and say Here is the path forward and I really. This is what I want you to do then let's do it together letter forward together. Now what I've resent the stuff than usually you know at some point a hand goes up and someone asked where are their leaders that sort of steered anger hate and aggression and weren't these sometimes charismatic leaders too yeah I think not every curious lady has an all Paul of the Obama hat but it turns out that all charismatic leaders try to instill their followers with positive emotions. But some still stir anger hate fear all of that stuff. But they do so to target it to now to some other people that are playing for our bad feelings here and so they push the emotion away from them that's relieving their own folks their own include their own follow us from these negative emotions grating appalled that emotion is that it's us the great system the spectacle. And inevitably the next hand goes up and some of us can this actually explain why sometimes people follow charismatic leaders even if they lead them over the edge of the cliff. Sure I mean you know if you're all struck you don't even notice that you're wandering towards the edge of the cliff or struck effect can make us vulnerable to bias and wrong vision to be dazzled by seemingly simple yet deeply flawed solutions and to ignore the moral deficiencies of charismatic leaders who appeal to our hearts. I mean. There's a clear difference between dark charisma and an optimistic charisma I mean there's a difference between Mussolini appealing to people's fears versus a leader who says like you know Franklin Roosevelt who says Better days are ahead of us we're going to seize the moment we all have the opportunity to be better people I mean that's a very different kind of charisma Yes absolutely I mean if it's appealing to positive emotion it is the more hopeful type of leadership however you know if you look at these dark leaders that have brought about bad things they may start out with the negative but they do that to Dan imbue in their inner circle in their followers that sends off a brighter future so as a matter of caution it might be wise to choose double check is it making sense is it logically and rationally something that I can buy into you know when we think about great leaders of the last 100 or so years you know they all seem to have been charismatic p. . People like Mandela or Churchill or Kennedy Yeah but then you know sometimes you think about leaders who had very little charisma but were actually quite effective like right like Dwight Eisenhower So I wonder whether leaders who have this positive charisma are better than leaders who have little or none I think they're more powerful they're more influential they're more likely to inspire action whether they are necessarily a one who see through the action I sometimes wonder to Kerry's my is great to bring about a movement to getting us all inspired to walk out and do something but it's not sufficient to just establish yourself as a dreamer and someone who makes others feel good it's also important to then deliver upon your results so my take on it is yeah you can be successful in other ways but I think having someone at the top of a nation at the top of a business at the top of a team who can also make a few great while we're doing something great is valuable in its own right. You know him Angus is a researcher at the University of Cambridge and you can see his entire talk at Ted that npr dot org on the show today inspired to action ideas on what it takes to start a movement and perhaps more importantly what it takes to keep that movement going. Mass movements always take people by surprise this is writer and activist Naomi Klein you know and if you talk to the organizers they'll admit there's a certain magic to it just like why this time and not last time you know so I'm interested in that question why this time and not that time but but also because I've been around for a while and I have I've seen some of these magical moments and I've seen them kind of disappear as quickly as they arose I become increasingly interested in what keeps people in motion with the clue here is Naomi Klein on the Ted stage and I'd say this is a pressing question these days because things are pretty shocking out there and now there's no shortage of people who are sounding the alarm. But as a society I don't think we can honestly say that we're responding with anything like the urgency that these overlapping crises demand from us and yet we know from history that it is possible for crisis to catalyze a kind of evolutionary leap and one of the most striking examples of this progressive power of crisis is the great crash of 1929 and this was taken by many as a message that the system itself was broken and many people listened and they leapt into action now these reforms were far from perfect in the Us African American workers immigrants and women were largely excluded. But the depression period along with the transformation of allied nations and economy during the World War 2 effort show us that it is possible for complex societies to rapidly transform themselves in the face of a collective threat now if that's really what it took then why isn't it working any more why do today's nonstop shocks why don't they spur us into action. This is the question it's a question I asked Simon Sinek earlier in the show because it seems like people are really upset about a lot of these global crises but it's they're not nothing seems to be changing so what what's the missing element now well I think that the real missing ingredient or one of them has to do with you know what I would call the utopian imagination of of not just a horror and rejection at something that we're seeing now but it actually articulated vision of the world we want instead and I think that previous generations of activists and organizers. You know for better and worse had that utopian vision of of the world they wanted instead they didn't identify as you know I am an environmental activist I am a women's rights activists I am a civil rights activist It was more like I'm a revolutionary I am not just resisting what I don't want I know the world I want instead and I think that it's in that interplay between a vision of the world we want instead and a horror in the face of what our current system is producing that both catalyzes people into movement and keeps them in the movement because the posture of rejection of of enough ness of No is a powerful catalyst to bring people in the streets but it's it's an exhausting posture to maintain and I think part of the burnout comes from the fact that what sustains people in struggle is that hope of what what there could be instead rejection alone I think turns talks and it's just exhausting it's fight or flight you can't stay and fight or flight forever. We are living at a time of extraordinary political engagements politics is a mass obsession and yet this still doesn't add up to the kind of holistic and universalist vision of a different world that our predecessors had so why is that. Well very often we think about political change in defined compartments these days environment in one box inequality in another racial and gender justice in a couple of other boxes education over here health over there and within each compartment there are thousands upon thousands of different groups and N.G.O.s each competing with one another for credit name recognition and of course resources so for instance the people fighting poverty and inequality rarely talk about climate change even though we see time and again that it's the poorest of people who are the most vulnerable to extreme weather. The climate change people rarely talk about war and occupation even though we know that the thirst for fossil fuels has been a major driver of conflict. The environmental movement has gotten better at pointing out that the nations that are getting hit hardest by climate change are populated overwhelmingly by black and brown people but when black lives are treated as disposable in prisons in schools and on the streets these connections are too rarely made. When it comes to to building. A sustainable movement is about sort of breaking down these compartments that you describe and then trying to connect all these different groups and issues I think it is and I think that. Over the past 30 years there has been this process of extreme professionalization of activism where we carve the world into these single issue silos and then people get funding based on which silo they're in and it makes movements more inclined to set out very compartmentalized achievable wins that they can then go back to their funders saying look we won right but if you're talking about deep systemic change whether it's you know in the face of systemic racism or whether it's in the face of climate change or whether it's in the face of economic inequality you're not going to get that easy when you know it's going to take decades. When you think about all of these enormous challenges these generational challenges these civilizational challenges that the human race faces are you optimistic I mean do you think that we will actually rise to these challenges and build the movements required to overcome them. I have good days and bad days on the question I think about the stakes of you know if if we don't change then what happens then what does the future look like for my 5 year old son it's so unacceptable it is so dangerous and maybe it's time for the people who have stopped believing change is possible to step aside and just make some room you know one of the things you realize is there is a natural regeneration in social movements when young people come in who have not experienced as many disappointments and setbacks and their raring to go and refuse to accept no for an answer and impossible for an answer I see that in the way the Parklane. Respond to challenges that their movement only represented a narrow experience of of gun violence and didn't get defensive and and listened and are creating helping to create a more diverse movement I'm seeing a new generation come out not just with more energy and optimism but with the seemingly a greater capacity to break down silos evolve listen you know that gives me hope that they're they're dreaming and. They're not afraid of big ideas and I take Helms and Janet Leigh I'm Guy Raz And you've been listening to ideas worth spreading right here on the Ted Radio Hour from n.p.r. . Support for the Ted Radio Hour comes from little passports a monthly subscription service for kids each package includes games souvenirs and activities from a new country designed to spark curiosity and cultures around the globe at little passports dot com slash radio. 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Hello and welcome to lying lying to your health connection I'm your host Dr Gillian would try. More than ever people are seeking a more holistic approach to care and are interested in learning about non conventional medical therapies what exactly is integrative medicine and how kind of benefit you and your family learn how the specialty of integrative medicine marries conventional and complimentary medicine to deliver personalized evidence based care joining us today is Dr chorus balding she is a double board certified physician in both integrative medicine and family medicine and practices at Synergy integrative medicine and acupuncture Dr Spaulding Welcome thank you so much Jillian for having me I'm really excited to be here today I'm excited to thank you for being here and you can also join our conversation do you want to optimize your health are you curious about whether complementary medicine could benefit you how much do you know about Integrative Medicine call us toll free state wide at 1888353575218883535752 in Anchorage at 550-843-3550 extension 8433 or e-mail us at line one at Alaska public dot org. Ok let's put this puzzle to gether Dr Spaulding let's start with what is integrative medicine Well Jillian that is a great question and 1st before we talk about integrated medicine let's talk about what integrated means in general and so integrative means to bring together or incorporate part into a whole and in Western medicine over the past 3 or 400 years we've been sort of increasingly specialized so that we've separated the mind from the body the spirit in the community and really their role in disease and so integrative medicine is a way to bring those things back together to marry commission all medicine with complementary medicine so that you have a system in approach that really deals with all the aspects of care for patients. Like the explanation thank you and I think to fully understand it we probably need to define a few more terms so I'm curious integrative medicine the same as functional medicine No Well there are some similarities and the similarities are that integrative medicine really works to get to the root of the problem that a patient has to get to the root of the disease integrative medicine is a little different and that in compas is all whole lot of other complementary therapies and let me let me just say I'm talk.