There may not be a good one but people follow directions and get stuck you'll hear the warning from the Jackson County Sheriff's Office after 9 an American man who would have been a shining light in society in today's world but Eugene Billard was black and lived a century ago in racism ruled America his celebrity came in France details of his life from the new book blood runs red. And your phone calls and e-mails ahead in the exchange 1st the news of the hour. Bly from n.p.r. News in Washington one core of a Coleman President Trump is meeting NATO leaders in London he's reiterated his complaint that other countries must pay more for their own defense and he had a warning there are some countries that are fulfilling their commitment is going to be dealt with maybe I'll deal with them for trade sit with me on deal with in a different way I'll work something out with their NATO member countries have already set a timetable to increase their defense spending by 2024 but Trump wants it done immediately in separate comments earlier today Trump discussed the chance of ending the trade war with China by the end of the year that could waive off new u.s. Tariffs on Chinese goods that are supposed to take effect next week but today Trump said he liked the idea of waiting until after next year's presidential election to reach a new trade deal economist Mark Zandi suggests Trump may have been needling Chinese trade negotiators there's maybe a way to push them some terms that you'd like to see or you know could be just losing his temper or he's done that the past. Might be taking the trade war down a darker path so hard to know with the president the markets have reacted negatively the Dow is down more than one and a half percent California Congressman Duncan Hunter is expected to plead guilty today in federal court to one count of misusing campaign funds the 6 term Republican has long denied any wrongdoing until a recent interview N.P.R.'s Ana Jaffe reports that's when Hunter said he's changing his plea to protect his children from a trial Hunter and his wife Margaret were indicted for spending around a quarter of a $1000000.00 of campaign funds on everything from dental bills to luxury vacations to flying their pet rabbit across the country Hunter was stripped of all of his congressional committee assignments and just narrowly won reelection and his predominantly Republican district npr's ajna Jeffie the Trump administration has released more than $100000000.00 in funding. To Lebanon's military after holding up the payment for nearly a month Leyla Allen has more the $105000000.00 military aid package was frozen this month after a request from the White House without explanation both the State Department and the Pentagon had pushed the funding to continue a Lebanese army spokesperson said The decision was an internal u.s. Political issue but that the aid was always beneficial and always needed Democratic Senator Chris Murphy who visited Lebanon last week said Monday that holding the money weaken the Lebanese military just at the moment that they were holding the country together the us has provided $2200000000.00 to the Lebanese armed forces since 2005 and supplied more than 80 percent of its equipment then peonies I'm laying on the line on it in Beirut on Wall Street the Dow is down about 450 points or more than one and a half percent the Nasdaq is more than one and a 3rd percent lower This is n.p.r. . More than 250 people have been killed in East Africa because of heavy rain N.P.R.'s editor parol to reports meteorologists are warning more rain is on the way here in Kenya mudslides and swollen rivers have killed more than 100 people including a 7 year old girl who was killed yesterday when her house was destroyed by a mudslide this is rainy season in the region but the rains have been heavier than normal because water temperatures in the Indian Ocean are much warmer than usual this has caused heavy rains across the Sudan Somalia Uganda and Democratic Republic of Congo in just one day Djibouti received 2 years worth of rain the consequences have been catastrophic according to the UN's humanitarian agency more than $2000000.00 people have been displaced by rains and the bad news is that heavy rain is expected to continue through the month of December in a Prata n.p.r. News Nairobi the UN's world climate conference continues in Madrid Swedish climate activist gratitude has arrived in Portugal on her way to the summit in Spain she says she has a Goal for summit delegates that's where leaders finally understands the origin see and that they. Listen to the signs and act on the signs. That they start treating this crisis like a crisis and collaborates international This comes as the u.n. Whether agency released a report today it says this decade is likely to set a record for warmth on core of a Coleman n.p.r. News in Washington support for n.p.r. Comes from the financial services firm of Raymond James offering personalized wealth management advice and banking and capital markets expertise along with a legacy of putting clients financial wellbeing 1st learn more at Raymond James dot com. This is Jefferson Public Radio Good morning I'm Dave Young with j p r news a small earthquake shook near Mt Rainier Monday just the latest in a cluster of 20 earthquakes around the Northwest since Friday Rainier is an active volcano but seismologists say this swarm of quakes is not cause for alarm Harold Toben directs the Pacific Northwest Seismic networks which is based at the University of Washington all of our active volcanoes have occasional swarms of this kind of seismic activity so small swarms of earthquakes like this in Marin you are tremendously common they happen many times a year Toben says there were a few fairly large quakes over the weekend but they were not located near the volcano. Californians may be more likely to get a whiff of marijuana while walking down the street now that the drug is fully legal in the state that raises the old issue of secondhand smoke and Capital Public Radio Sammy Kayleigh has a look people can legally smoke on their porches and in their backyards in the Golden State and weed friendly lounges and cafes are opening in Southern California but as public acceptance of marijuana grows some people are concerned about secondhand effects u.c. San Francisco cardiologist Matt Springer says they have reason to be so you are answered it's looking there are a lot you have an offense where there are a lot of people smoke and it may not matter what is smoking you are still feeling the ultra fine particles that go into the lungs and create problems but scientists haven't been able to study marijuana the way they have tobacco so the long term effects are still a mystery it's part of why you don't see as many public health warnings about it even so some advocates are trying to change the conversation some counties are urging landlords to impose smoke free housing in cities with pot friendly event permits nonsmokers groups are asking local officials to think about whether unhealthy smoke might drift off and affect others in Sacramento I'm Sammy Kayleigh Pacific Gas and Electric refuse to give information on medically vulnerable patients to most counties impacted by the 1st major power shut off in October which left millions of Californians without power Michael Ramiro is with Placer County Health and Human Services with that data p.g. Me or a local jurisdiction could map out the density of medical based on customers and determine where should we resource centers be located and he says resource centers may be the only place where residents can recharge essential medical devices like oxygen tanks You're listening to Jefferson Public great support for j p r comes from our listeners and from Michael and Suzanne Brian. Michael and Suzanne Bryan express their appreciation for the lively exchange of intelligent ideas and opinions provided by the Jefferson exchange Michael Bryant attorney at law has been providing legal services related to personal injury for over 45 years on the road Valley if you'd like to learn more about Jefferson Public Radio visit us online at w w w i j p.r. Dot org. This is the Jefferson exchange on the news and information service of Jefferson Public Radio where live on weekday mornings we rebroadcast on weekday evenings were heard on radio stations serving Oregon and California and were found online streaming and Jeff Exchange dot org dot org and the j.p. App It's Tuesday December 3rd 2019 Giving Tuesday more on that in just a moment I'm Jeffrey Riley thank you for listening in this hour Oregon incomes and not taking the alternate route the numbers show income rising in Oregon you hear from the Oregon Center for Public Policy about the rising tide and which boats got lifted by it later on you'll hear from the Jackson County sheriff's office which had to go after people who found alternate routes on their phones only to get stuck on snowy secondary roads here more than welcome to join these discussions will provide phone number and email address for you shortly 1st let's get a weather forecast here is our student assistant Randy Babbitt welcome Randi thank you and good morning Jeffery for the Southern Oregon Cascades and says Cuse today expect patchy fog it's partly sunny with a high near 41 and tonight patchy fog mostly cloudy with a low around $26.00 and why Rica today there is patchy fog Otherwise it's partly sunny with a high near $53.00 and tonight patchy fog otherwise mostly cloudy with a low around 32 in wheat in Mt Shasta today a chance of showers Otherwise it's partly sunny with a high near 44 and tonight partly cloudy with a low around 32 for reading in Red Bluff today it's partly sunny with a high near $61.00 and tonight partly cloudy with a low around $43.00 in the Klamath Basin today there is patchy fog otherwise it's mostly cloudy with a high near $45.00 and tonight patchy freezing fog mostly cloudy with a low around $29.00 on the southern Oregon coast today it's mostly sunny with a high near $58.00 and tonight patchy fog otherwise mostly cloudy with. Hello around 41 on the northern California coast today there's a chance of showers it's partly sunny with a high near 55 and a night partly cloudy with a low around 44 and Roseburg and the quad Basin today expect areas of fog with it becoming mostly sunny a high near $51.00 and tonight patchy fog otherwise mostly cloudy with a low around $38.00 for Grants Pass Medford in Ashland today there is patchy fog otherwise it's mostly sunny with a high near $59.00 and tonight patchy fog otherwise partly cloudy with a low around $36.00 and Eugene in Springfield today expect there is a fog otherwise it's mostly sunny with a high near 50 and tonight patchy fog otherwise mostly cloudy with a low around 37 thank you Randi so the thing with this kind of patchy fog is if it gets cold enough it certainly can cause ice to form on surfaces and I don't know about you man but trying to get out of the driveway this morning scraping the windshield it was like the ice was having a hostage situation with my windshield would not let it go and took a little extra scraping and a little extra leaning into it to get enough clearance on the insurance and wasn't driving from a poor home which I really don't recommend people do thanks for listening to us on the Jefferson exchange we always appreciate your time and attention and a slight diversion here for just a moment a reminder that today is giving Tuesday last year more than 3 and a half 1000000 people chose this day to support organizations and causes that make the world a better place we encourage you to join this year's effort by giving today if j p r is among the organizations you think make your life better please support the mission of public radio in our region you can make a pledge at i.j.a. P.r. Dot org or by calling 888-552-6191 if you're having memories of the pledge drive that is the exact same number 888-552-6191 Ok Oregon's latest state revenue forecast came in a week before Thanksgiving it shows a notable and steady rise in incomes and therefore in state income tax receipts so kicker rebates on next year's taxes will be bigger in Oregon can claim to have a median household income. Above the national average 1st time that's happened in 40 years says the state but some organizations that dug further into the numbers found some down notes including a widening of inequality in Oregon those include the Oregon Center for Public Policy where Daniel Hauser is a policy analyst and our guest on the exchange by phone Daniel thanks for joining us today thanks for having me on and happy to be here give the quick rundown if you would about what o.c.p. Is all about yeah the organ Center for Public Policy we're a research institution up in Portland that focuses on questions of economic opportunity for working families and so we dig into the data and really try and understand what the situation is for families in Oregon that are low income or middle class that are really fighting and striving to survive in today's economy and so we research issues like housing and housing cost burdens poverty we also look at issues like income inequality which you know our recent research put out just last week found really paints a problematic picture for many Oregon families as well so it's interesting to see the 2 reports came out almost the same time because you get the the state coming out with the revenue forecast and of course all the legislators were ballyhooing how high the tax receipts were getting and how big the kicker's were going to be next year and also this in this indicator that Oregon's median income is actually 2.4 percent higher than the Us median income for the 1st time in 40 years but I guess if you're focusing on working families as those c.p.p. Does you see a few more numbers behind those numbers. Yeah that's absolutely right and was interesting that the analysis came out pointing that household income in Oregon the median household income has actually reached for the 1st time a level surpassing that of the national average and it's interesting too because when we look at that data we see that that's positive like there's there's no question that we don't doubt that that figure is accurate and it's absolutely the case that it's a good thing for our median household income to be rising and rising about the national average what we found perhaps more salient though is what is the status of the median typical Oregonian not of the household level but at a taxpayer level and so the data that the Office of Economic Analysis uses is census data right so they people get asked every year in every decade you know how much do you make what your wages what your income from investments in the like the data we used rather than a survey was actually data directly from the organ Department of Revenue and so this is what people actually report on their income taxes and what we found was that when you look at the typical Oregonian incomes are up they haven't proved that they've improved much much less in a much slower rate than that of the very richest Oregonians All right so gains are being made but you're saying the getting me to the upper end of the scale Yeah absolutely I mean what we're seeing is that the median Oregonian since the recession has gained about $2500.00 per year in income yet the member of the top 110th of one percent so this is the richest one in $1000.00 Oregonians has seen their income rise by $1900000.00 on average and so the gap there is not hard to see his very you know in some ways to me shocking because I think sometimes we expect that the income inequality that we see nationally is being driven by the New Yorks and California's of the world but really what we're seeing is that here in Oregon income inequality is also really driving a gap between low income and working families in the very richest households does this mean that Oregon has more millionaires over time or more people who are in that top 10th of one percent. You know we have also found in looking at the number of people who file tax returns that have more than a $1000000.00 in income but that amount has risen rapidly in Oregon over the last handful of years as well and so we've seen that compared to other states the share of income earners making over $9.00 in Oregon has risen faster than nearly every other state by one metric and faster than every other state by another so we so what are some of the components of this you mention that you're looking at the taxpayer level versus household What difference does that reveal. Well many households actually have more than one taxpayer right and so if you have 2 families living in one unit or you have 2 tax pairs that are you know running out rooms in a single apartment or something of that nature then they would show up as separate people in our data they show up as the same person hours of same household and the census data and so you know it's not always easy to disentangle what exactly that means for incomes although one of the things that's been clear from the data is that pretty consistently household incomes are significantly higher than taxpayer incomes at the median level and trying to kind of tease out what that difference is and what drives it something that you know we continue to work on but one of things that is really clear is that when we look at the data that the Office of Economic Analysis use and the data that we used we see really the same trends right we see the same direction of the results you know they also found that the income gains for the top 20 percent were significantly faster than for the bottom 20 percent based on their data as well all right so we're no there's no disagreement or saying in basic facts the figures are the same. Because the trends in the magnitude of the same right I mean the specific numbers shift around a little based on which data source you are if you're using a family or a household or a taxpayer an individual but the general trend of the income inequality those at the top are doing much better than those in the middle or those at the bottom as seen again and again in both state and national data Daniel Hauser's our guest on the Jefferson exchange the policy analyst at the Oregon Center for Public Policy and we're talking about Oregon incomes which do appear to be rising median household income is now above the national average for the 1st time in something like 40 years in the days when the timber industry ruled Oregon you can join our conversation on the exchange at 88383760 your thoughts about whether the distribution is working for you for example 883837602 join our conversation by phone or send your thoughts by e-mail to j. X. And Jeff now dot org How is Oregon basically tracking with the rest of the country Dale on the widening of the income gap. You know I think that's mostly true I mean I think there's certainly a discrepancy is based on region and state but one of the things we see is that the gaps are widening across the board and Oregon usually ranks somewhere in the middle of the pack in terms of states and come inequality it is still very much the case that those localities that attracts you know multiple billionaires the Californias and Florida's a New Yorks of the world have worse income inequality than other jurisdictions like Oregon but we we are certainly doing our best as a state to continue expanding that gap between the richest and the average Now you also mention I'm going back to your report now from from Halloween about the room because it was all about scary things like 7 facts about economic inequality to make your hair stand up. And one of them was about the racial wealth gap is a true horror show and what does that mean. Well what we see when we look at you know so the research we did on income inequality focus on how much you make in a year when we look at how many assets and what the actual wealth is of households using a different data set this is best on the Federal Reserve Board's research and this is for all of America not just for Oregon unfortunately you know have state broken down data what we find when we look at that is that the gap between folks the median net worth of an American family that's white non Hispanic is around 170000 when you look at that same factor for a black Nonis panick family it's about 17000 for Hispanic family it's 21000 so what we see is just this absolutely massive manyfold difference between the wealth of white families and the wealth of families of color in America and what that really drives is that wealth provides such an important opportunity to invest in opportunities that come up to provide a buffer when economic hardship arises and that when households don't have any assets where there and debts where they have you know basically break even on their net worth that they're unable to survive without really significant hardship when bad things do arise as they do inevitably for all of us is the racial wealth gap bigger in Oregon I mean Oregon is not a place that is very diverse For one thing. You know unfortunately we don't have the data to say that it is larger or smaller in Oregon I mean and you know to be fair Oregon. I would say although we do have. A strong contingent of white non Hispanic families to be sure we also have really significant rising levels of communities of color in our state and it's something that's really helping to drive the dynamic nature of our economy help make our communities stronger but it does have the result that we're seeing is that the wealth of these families is not keeping up with that of white households and it's something that we've spent generations nationally and here in Oregon creating the public policies and setting the stage for white households to gain more wealth and households of color I mean Oregon was founded without the ability for black people to even move here and live here right we found it ourselves we started from this perspective that we don't want people of color here and so to see that you know that has continued even more and more recent policies around segregated housing around not providing mortgages to folks or ensuring mortgages to folks who want to live in areas that have been defined as having high concentrations of people of color has resulted in and really wide disparities and the racial wealth gap nationally so within the numbers there are there are some indicators about what it is that contributes to the inequality why the gains seem to go to the top and meanwhile basically the rich get richer it seems to be the simplest way to say it. Yeah I think there's a number of reasons I mean some of them are sort of global and technological The economy is not what it was a 100 years ago but really what we have identified as a really significant contributor to this rising gap of income inequality is our tax system I mean one of the things that's very clear in the tax system today is that we actually ask more of the lowest income Oregonians as a share of their income and the richest top one percent and so when we have a tax system that actually pulls more of the resources people have that are poor. More than a dozen of those that are rich we're doing redistribution in the wrong direction right where we're you know pushing forward a system that actually has better and bigger tax breaks for richer households than for poorer households and so we shouldn't be too surprised when what we see as a result of that is that low income households continue to fall behind the growth of those that are the very top. You know we can certainly point to Oregon's actual tax rates for income taxes and say well yeah the people who make more pay more but you're saying the effective tax rates end up somewhat inverted. So when we look at bringing together all of the state and local taxes organs or looking at property taxes fines fees we're looking at the state income tax what we see is that the effective tax rate as a share of their income is actually higher for the poorest and lower for the richest and one of the things that's driving that is we have a number of less than ideal taxes and we also put in place in our income tax system which is you know we have a progressive income tax you pay a higher marginal tax rate as your income goes up but what we've done is we've layered on top of that foundation a bunch of little tax breaks and loopholes that mainly benefit people who earn their income through pass through businesses like escorts l.c.s. As well as for folks that are in their income for capital gains right the selling of assets the selling of wealth and so when we bring a system that you know does have this key progressive component which can be improved but does at least are from an area for aggressivity and we layer on top of it all of these different carve outs and and really problematic piece a policy what we end up with is a system that actually asks more of the poorest as a share of income than the richest again we're talking to 2 Daniel Hauser a policy analyst at the Oregon Center for Public Policy here in the Jefferson exchange about incomes in Oregon which do indicate that they are rising across the board but the point being made by the u.s. C.p.p. Is that they are more the gains are going to the top end of the increased income spectrum you can join the conversation on the exchange 88383765 phone by email as Jay x. And Jeff knit or Gears a call from Ryan in Eugene Welcome to the Jefferson exchange. Jeffrey and. Comment but the 1st one is just the whole thing it really gets the headline income rises in Oregon. Arise from working for didn't seem to rise much for for others and so every time we use that term and it's mathematicians understand it. We need to be we need to couch that somehow a little different maybe put it in court trials or something to question the question I actually have for Daniel. I think you said. The working working folks were made $2500.00 more dollars since the recession and I'm really more interested in the term trends like what is already like over the last 40 years you know we lost a lot of union jobs in the mills we lost a lot of ways that people were shared of more income for working class Any thoughts on just that longer term trend All right thanks for the question Ron appreciate that and the numbers recently leased out of the legislature did deal with that very thing. Yeah and we also were able to look in our research and 1st thank you for the question and for pointing out that there's a big difference between the working poor and the median income household right the medians that if you lined up a 100 Oregonians person number 50 in the dead center would be the median and so when we're talking about meetin we are missing some of the other important components of understanding our income distribution and so what we found is that the median Oregonian though over since 1980 has actually seen their income rise just under $3000.00 or productivity has increased far faster than that the profits of major businesses increase far faster than that the incomes of the top one percent have more than tripled over that time period rising by about $600000.00 and so it's actually the case when we look at the longer term not just since the recession like we talked about earlier what we really see is that income inequality is a long term trend and has really been deviating like this for decades but it is also the case that you know looking at the median does median does obscure the fact that many Oregonians at the very bottom are making far less than the around $37000.00 that we see the median Oregon mean Oregon taxpayer make and so this is really the core I think of the issue is that we have many problems in our economy that make it harder for both the median for the middle class to survive and thrive for those very poorest households affording things like rent affording dinner for your kids and all these just true basics are sometimes out of reach and it's really something that Oregon can do more to address let me get to those medians though because we have discussed the actual numbers as for your saying that the taxpayer median income is $37000.00 Correct yeah just over $37000.00 and we use the most recent data available and that's for the 2017 tax year there's always a lag with getting tax data sure but but and so what were the difference that we're talking about here because you know that the state ballyhooing the horizon median household income that is it $63000.00 because that accounts for the other you know their incomes and household. Yeah and at its core I mean we're looking there's many ways to define. The census data includes a number of things that your actual tax forms to consider. And there's also sometimes challenges when you're asking someone how much do you make in the last months the data can sometimes differ from the amount that that person might actually report on their tax forms Ok let's take another call in here we have Tony in talent on the line looking to Jefferson explain income is with Daniel Hauser from the Oregon Center for Public Policy when your daughter to. Get rid of my dogs . Because as it happens. This week's Economist has a story that would seem to contradict much of what he's saying now I know he's talking about are we going to. Be saddled with being a one party state sometimes a little change in California but. The numbers when you looked at more precisely the economist argues. Would indicate that the top one percent in America may have changed a little since 960. The arguments of people like Elizabeth Warren who argues that the richest one per mill of Americans rose from 7 percent in 19 to 22 percent in 2002. Poppycock and I know it's a political season and your little polemic might indicate that. This. Station but I wonder if you could comment on a myth. The national and international right thanks for the question Tony appreciate it was a little is it a little polemic Daniel. So I can honestly say that I do not regularly read the Economist and did not read this article and so it's hard for me to respond in any precise detail to what the economist argues although I do appreciate your raising that there are criticisms and there are varying opinions about how bad income inequality really is I think what we do tend to see really across the many analyses of income inequality is that the vast majority of them do point to the fact that income inequality has gotten worse and the u.s. Has gotten worse in Oregon and I think that that's one area where the Office of Economic Analysis and I do agree in our analysis is that those of the top are doing much better than those in the middle and those at the bottom. Well so so maybe but the issue here is we've only been talking about the incomes and having the talking about the payouts I mean as a percentage of income are people paying more for example for real estate as it seems they are and other things that they really need to get through daily life one of the things we have seen when we look at housing is that Oregonians are continuing to struggle to afford the rents and homeownership rates have not recovered to where they were part of the recession and really are not very good in Oregon compared to other states and so we find that for runners I mean low income runners the majority of them really really struggle to afford their rent across the state we see that there is a significant share of folks that actually pay more than half of their total income on rent and when we look at other issues you know we do see that things like poverty are improving the actual quality life of Oregonians is improving just much lower than it would if we had a more equal distribution of those gains of the work of Oregonians actually flowing to more of the people doing the work than those who are in the business so as a policy analyst what kinds of policies do you recommend to do c.p.p. That that legislators should think about implementing to make inequality less stark . I think at the core there's a fairly simple equation that we can think about so what we need to do to start as we need to get more revenue out of the richest households we need to tax the rich more than we do today because what they're gaining from our broader economy is supported by the public goods that we're suppose that all of us in our taxes are supporting and so although they're able to gain much larger profits a much larger benefits from the economy it is the broad economy that we're all supporting the broad communities that we're all supporting that are helping to drive that scale of benefit and so it's really the case that we need to tax the rich more than we do today and we need to invest those resources in low income kids I mean at its simplest point what we need to do is put money into childcare education housing we need to make sure that the next generation has a better opportunity to earn higher incomes to bring up the median bring up the typical Oregonians income and really help drive a higher quality of life for all of us how much appetite you think there would be for that in the Oregon legislature that given that in the last legislative session they passed the other new tax on businesses that will help fund schools. Well I think there's some very early specific and discrete things that we can do now and that involves I mentioned earlier which is the wide scale quantity of tax breaks and loopholes that mean they benefit the richest households and so one example of that is that Oregon directly connects to this new federal tax policy called Opportunity Zones and you can't see it but I'm doing air quotes around opportunity because really what these policies are is it's a set of 3 different tax breaks for capital gains and so if you own a $1000000.00 in stock that you bought for $500000.00 you have $500000.00 and gains realized when you sell that stock and so you can invest in what's called an opportunity fund and then that opportunity fund invested an opportunity zone and what you end up with is that over that if you hold that investment the opportunity zone for 10 years then you actually have no gains over that 10 years that get taxed at all and that's just one of the 3 tax breaks baked into Opportunity Zones All right so you're saying if you would just not the rates but if you just some of the some of the breaks then you can certainly get some gains there yeah absolutely in organs connect to those organs can give a significant tax break to really rich investors some of those investments might be occurring in Oregon there's Oregon residents making the investments and so it's possible that Oregon can really lose significant revenue that would fund important things like schools or childcare and instead we're going to be giving those tax breaks to some of the richest households Daniel Hauser thank you this is the job j.p. 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Tis the season new guys for Foster and furious online shopping it all kicked off with Cyber Monday but it won't cost to the health of warehouse workers from American Public Media this is Marketplace Tech demystifying the digital economy I'm Jack Stuart in for Molly Wood. Marketplace Tech is supported by u.s.b. Technology found in billions of devices u.s.b. Implementers form reminds consumers that certified products display u.s.b. I. Get the whole story at enabling us. Amazon is by far the largest online retailer in the u.s. So chances are you've clicked buy on some holiday shopping or even just some daily staple pretty recently and that click sets a complex chain of events into motion all to get the product to you as fast as possible but the Center for Investigative Reporting says that at Amazon that's coming at a very high human cost Reporter Will Evans says he got records on injury rates for 23 hours on fulfillment centers around the country and he found the right of serious injuries is more than double the average for the industry at some warehouses it's as much as 6 times higher I asked him why so what we've been hearing over and over again both from workers and from former Amazon safety managers is that it's linked to the extreme production quotas that the workers have to meet and if they don't hit those quotas they are written up and eventually fired and the demands that are put on the workers are higher than at other companies and so what you end up seeing is workers bodies breaking down or people taking short cuts to hit their rate and getting hurt as a result what do these workers say about how much training they actually got for some of this very physical labor that they're actually doing. It's interesting you know the workers will say look they tell us how to do this safely but we can't actually do it that way and still ahead our production quotas and so what you want to do do you want to do it safely or you want to keep your job and some people say they do even do it correctly but because they have to do it so quickly for such long periods I mean right now it's the holiday season so you're looking at mandatory overtime 12 hour shifts and people held to quotas of hundreds of items an hour and if you slow down you know a manager is going to know and so people's bodies end up wearing out so how does Amazon respond to this Amazon says that it is very diligent at counting all of its injuries and that other companies aren't and that's why you're seeing higher rates of injury at Amazon that they're very good at keeping track of this at counting injuries and keeping workers off work until they're actually ready to go back the problem with that is you know there are federal regulations for how to count injuries that companies have to follow Amazon has actually been fined for underreporting injuries in the past if there are now doing a diligent job at counting their injuries I mean that's following the law that's great but it doesn't address the problem which is that there are too many of them I mean some of these warehouses you're seeing 15 injuries per 100 workers up to $26.00 injuries for 100 workers and even the Amazon safety managers I've talked to said you know Amazon knows that's a problem that's way too much we'll have a reporter revealed from the Center for Investigative Reporting earlier this year Amazon said it was going to make more products available for one day delivery instead of the customary 2 day potentially ratcheting up the pressure on its warehouse employees even though I'm Jack Stuart and that's Marketplace tax. This is a p m. This is j.p. Our Jefferson Public Radio is News and Information Service It is 840 and you're listening to the Jefferson exchange with Jeffrey Riley thank you for doing so you can find us online at Jeff Exchange dot org for the program i j p r dot org for the entire network of stations serving southern Oregon to Northern California we're also on social media on Facebook and on Twitter at Jef exchange and you're welcome to take part in the program as it happens your live questions and comments are welcome for a live guests at 808383768 j x. At Jeff net dot org driving in winter weather is often a challenge you don't need to tell you that and it became a bigger challenge last week when the giving winter storm snarled traffic around the region you can't blame people for trying to find ways to drive around the places where the snow blocked roads but in the narrow valleys in our part of the West the alternate route is often higher and snow we're g.p.s. Map devices often don't indicate that and so people can end up on roads worse than the roads they avoided Jackson counties roads and sheriff's departments are warning people not to get too hung up on the advice of the g.p.s. Maps 2 guests join us Mike Moran is with the Jackson County Sheriff's Department thanks for joining us Mike you bet and John Viles with us as well the Jackson County roads and parks manager Welcome to the studio thank you for having us so what kinds of things do you guys see during the last storm and we start with you with the sheriff's office because of the emergency 1st responders Well I talked to a surgeon Sean Richards who's head of our search and rescue let's think about their role there they're kind of like the Coast Guard in the worst of it and what happened was he had mentioned that they'd been out overnight and along with the crews from Jax county roads and just got roads are a lot like the Coast Guard to they're out of the worst of it essentially people trying to avoid being caught on the side of the Sisk use according their g.p.s. Looked like an alternate route well as you mentioned altitude is a factored in road conditions size of the road necessary. Yeah there's kind of a road there 13 people ended up unable to proceed further I think was the final it was it was 13 it started off to be 3 and then was 8 in the but by the time the search and rescue folks got down there was 13 different vehicles this is on one we're all on coal Steen road image sun starts but basically at the summit this is the pass and then proceeds down in the northern California at the hilt in a very shadowy place too I think where the snow tends to stick around for a while once it gets there it does in know it's about a one and a half lane gravel road very windy very steep very remote and and some folks you know it showed up on the g.p.s. Is a viable route and it wasn't so this is not the 1st time this sort of thing has happened that we have some history in the region of people who look to navigate around obstacles ahead of them and the maps indicated this is another way to go it is you have you know you have this little computer device in your car and the computer device you know if it says this road closed then it does what it's programmed to do it starts looking for alternatives and it says well there's an alternative and it doesn't know better and so it'll send there and if you follow those things blindly things like this going to happen Well there have been some some significant cases over the years we're just talking before we're going to hear about the Kim family we couldn't remember who was 12 or 13 years ago getting stuck Mr Kim died in the snow. Looking for an alternate route they got seriously stuck so it seems like the message would've gotten across by by now but but who needs to get the most John vile. All of us you know it's interesting when we were you know having this conversation I talked to some people and some people said you know I probably would have done that and you know it makes me shiver to think that you know the fall of this this device blindly but I think being familiar with your surroundings being familiar with your where your destination to and what's around it and just the idea of getting off of an interstate going onto a 2 lane rural road and then turning onto a one and a half lane gravel road something should be going off on your head saying this is a bad idea I should probably turn around right now as a guy involved with road maintenance and I mean how much more tension is an interstate highway going to get versus a local route Well I mean for example Interstate 5 has 247 shifts all year around as much effort as possible it's what's called a level of server level of a level of service in that basically all the resources Possibly but that road to keep it passable Costain road is plowed during the day and we do not show up there at night at all and so the virtually 0 attention at night time. So that is county road then you're saying it is a county road Yes but it also goes across the state line doesn't and you're going to basically your truck stop at the state line yeah so that once it gets to the bottom of the hill down there in Siskiyou County these There's not a lot of snow down there and then Siskiyou County takes it over that the part that's tough to travel is all in Jackson County So is there no plowing at night you're saying correct yes we do plow during the day and we try to keep it passable and usually you know when we leave in the evening we're leaving it in good shape but if it's continuing to snow during the night it's going to get worse and worse and then we're going to hit her in the morning let me let our listeners to join us once again because you may have some stories to share about situations where you thought you were getting ahead of the crowd and ended up getting getting well behind it or maybe you had some success in navigating around that because you had an awesome vehicle or something join us with your story 808383765 phone by e-mail it's j. X. At Jeff net dot org John via with Jackson County roads and parks Mike Moran with the Jackson County Sheriff's Department and you can join us as well 808-383-7608 j x at Jeff net dot org I noticed in the release that came out jointly from the sheriff's department in Jackson County roads and parks that there was also mention of not just passenger vehicles Mike Moran but also some some larger view of freight vehicles Well what was happening was a lot I believe a lot of the semi trucks were taking alternate routes and that means going on roads that really are not ideal and I think John probably knows better than that than I do on the how that's supposed to work the big challenge we had was it was the same idea Interstate 5 is closed to n.p.r. Trying to find alternative routes and if you're a long haul trucker with a delivery do that starts creating a lot of anxiety so you try to figure out how can I get around this and we had several semi's interstate trucks divert on to dead Indian memorial road and which is a length restricted road because the trucks cannot navigate that road because they're simply too long and going to take curves and there's well there's some hair pin current. Curves that they can't stand they're laying in the ash they often track off in the ditch and so that set length restricted road they tried to go and they simply got hung up and it closed the road for several hours were they were stuck in the middle the road we had to get tow trucks up there to get them out what this is this is a story that we get when people get stuck even on the main roads too is that if you have cars start spinning out you really can't do the work of plowing Can you describe that whole process of getting the road clear enough to be able to clear the road you know I live this several years ago when this happens this could pass once and what happened last week in Northern California is the exact scenario this you have this big long train of vehicles moving down the road somebody spins out and everybody stops and then the snow continues and then once that vehicles out of the way if it gets out of the way now the snow is on the ground because the plows have been there if you don't have chains oftentimes you can't get yourself out and if it continues to snow this problem continues to compound the plows cannot operate you can't get yourself out and now you're in the scenario where basically you have to get responders from each in public car out plowing cars like Bullock are out and it takes forever a day to when I think that the clothes you're talking about this is because you're working for the state of that you know I was and it took about 24 to 30 hours to clean out and we actually got everybody out of there in less than 24 hours but it was closed overnight and people did spend the night there and Northern California just this last week it was a much greater problem there was you know thousands of people that spent the night on the freeway under that exact same scenario is that something of a nightmare scenario for somebody in there in the transportation in the you know had basically the road maintenance business to have that much traffic as there was for Thanksgiving and that much weather it doesn't get much worse than that I mean when you have that scenario where people cannot literally get themselves out of the problem because they don't have chains even though the roads you're required to have change in your car to put them on they can't help themselves and we can't get plows in there it's a it's a very unsettling feeling because there's just not a lot you can. Do except do your best and it's very slow so might Brian tell us about the Jackson County search and rescue I mean how big a team is this and how often do they mobilize in most situations and how busy were they through that Thanksgiving holiday travel period Well the big night was the one up in the coasting Valley and I don't believe we had certainly anybody in the big call outs but it's a lot of volunteers that can come out and look for people that get stuck or get lost. We happen to have over the weekend an additional We have deputies who are assigned to do essentially mountain patrols. When they're during the summer they're they're out on the lakes there are marine patrol and so this past weekend 2 of the deputies were out and very fortuitously one of them they were I think up on road 37 clearing out those there were several cars really goes in it goes north south of the Cascades and it runs from $140.00 on over to Howard Prairie which is needed during the summer but. Not during the winter so the deputies had cleared out some vehicles and they went separate ways back to their respective homes and deputy and Lance happened decide to go down that Indian memorial road and it was getting there dusk and found a car that had been literally blown off the road to the high winds so there's something I mean these these folks I think were prepared somewhat They were nearly home though about 20 miles from home and they were in the actual area had he not come along very likely they would have had to spend the night while the fuel was running low trucks that were sent didn't get there for various reasons deputy Lance was able to pull them out so on that particular night he saved a family of 4 folks some pretty desperate times and he just fortuitously was taken that route and said Man he probably. I'm going to be the last car passing them for a while I said it was good help that he stopped and said Hey how are things going here and not too well was the answer no and he he was able with his larger rig do to get them pulled out or he was actually he didn't get them pulled out the rig tried other rigs had tried I should say hit with his larger again not for him for all 4 family members to get in with him and he took them home and they went back later so at a minimum what should people be traveling with in the lead in their cars Well a couple of things I just think about this young lady joined us for Thanksgiving she just drove down from Portland and you know a lot of us I think maybe under John. Thought on this too it seems like the sexton's we forget that that can be some treacherous driving to when you're that guy 5 north is usually fine don't need to worry about it you have a between Grants Pass and Rosemary you get 4 significant passes it's yeah it's 40 really am so even for that couple of the things that I would suggest always having if you're going to take a road trip even you know you know what you think you know my I 5 I'm fine is having some some water. Because if you're trying to dig your car out you're going to get dehydrated if there's any exertion at all and you don't think of equating dehydration with being in the snow but unfortunately it's a fact if you're exercising or working so a little bit of dried foods some. Energy bars snacks things like that and warmth whatever you know maybe some extra clothes a lot of people think well I don't have enough room for that but bring some blankets sleeping bags something that you're prepared if if you do like this family the other night they were thinking hey we're almost own in this when guests came and next thing you know they're they're stuck and it could have gone badly because eventually your fuel runs up getting stuck in Winter Rose the discussion topic here in the Jefferson exchange you're welcome to join as we talk to Mike Moran from the Jackson County Sheriff's Department John vial from Jackson. The roads and parks 808383760 the phone number the email address j x and Jeff net dot org John the difference between between Kerry chains and put your chains on is what. So when you're if you travel in Oregon you'll encounter these signs that say snow zone in whenever you see the signs that say snow zone you're required to have chains with you in the winter time and the purpose of that is that scenario we talked about you never know what you're going to encounter and you need to have chains with you so if you do encounter something that's problematic or if the requirements change to where Chains are required you can put them on when the signs read chains required and there's different levels you know sometimes the trucks up the chain up sometimes all vehicles have to chain up then you have to follow those particular standard and put your chains on as required have chains get any easier over the years ending and I know that there are lots of people complain about you know having to get out of the car when it's on the pavements where you get snow around at all and stuff is there anything that's made chaining up a car any easier over the over the years you know the newer change are easier to install it's still no fun though I mean it's still still wet and messy and not a lot of fun in most knows Owens in most areas the 4 wheel drive vehicles if they're in for a whole drive and people drive responsibly can usually get through most areas most the you also have the the snow tires which they have little snowflake on the side of the entire those are very good Those are allowed to be substituted for chains they have the site being in the more aggressive tread and those those can be substituted for change as well so there are some alternatives to chains that can be substituted I fear certain tests you recommend people should do to do to see what the conditions are like around them I have been in situations where I was driving down the road or that well this doesn't feel too bad then I stepped out of the cardinals fell over because the paper was too slick to stand on you know one of the things. We always encourage people to do and the state really encourages this is well is the practice putting the chains on inside your garage because many people have never done it before and when you're out there on the side of the highway and the cars are flying by and you can barely stand up to that so slick and you kneeled down and you get that sloppy wet snow it's still fun if you actually know how to do it it makes a lot more enjoyable as far as that you know the standard of when to put them on everything else my advice is any time you feel like you're losing traction you should put them on and then any time it to your you're asked to put them on so any time it says change require Clearly you have to them at any time you're not sure. When I was with the state I worked with that right away trucking and went right away trucking had a standard that if one of their truck drivers is involved in an accident and the chains could have prevented it they're going to be fired which is a pretty tough standard but I like the message that the drivers get out and put them on before you have a problem and not once you do have a problem when some of this obviously really gets down to basic psychology I mean you're saying you know if wind conditions get bad put your chains on but there's also a decision to be made about whether to continue which is part of what you're talking about here Mike Moran isn't it I mean decide whether or not you you actually can get to where you're going right people don't want to be delayed were used to in today's society not being impeded by anything and folks don't like to realize that Mother Nature does have the final say and whether you're going to make it on time or not sometimes so I can just speak from a couple times or I. Myself decided to grab a hotel rather than go through the mountains coming back from Reno once it was really a great choice and then other time this monster storm was coming or come back from Montana and I opted to stay again and well it turned out it wasn't all that bad but . You know I just rather be feeling secure you got responsibilities you know it's hard to think at the time though that I want to I got to. Yet there and you know we also just get back to the g.p.s. Thing it was going to the other day I was in Eugene and driving around it's I'm in the middle of Eugene for you know that I'd be working pretty well well the g.p.s. Sent me down this dead end driveway that was supposed to be a street so that I get a reminder again you can't rely on g.p.s. You have to and I could I looked and I thought that doesn't look like a story but when g.p.s. Says so you know I can see where you do get in a mode that kind of leads to thinking well I've got the clear go ahead somebody tell me I can do it you know one thing on that that that mindset when you get that travel mode that we try to recommend to people is assume the worst because people said well I'll probably make it assume you won't assume instead of Suman I probably want to know that hard and I'll make it without chains assume you'll have to put your chains on assume you're going to get stopped assume you're going to have to spend the night if you make all those assumption that that the worst is going to happen and you're prepared for that then when it doesn't happen it's a great trip and if it does happen you're ready you know you're still scratching your head after all these years in the road business watching the conditions that people will pull brave thinking that they can get through or that they're good enough drivers for example not only my scratching my head I'm scratching my head more because it seems like the problem is expanding the problem's not getting better it seems like people are taking more and more chances and are and are less and less prepared and so the problem seems to be growing instead of improving any advice back to the people make the g.p.s. Systems I mean they have some indication of what road conditions are like and here I don't know you know why some of these roads are even put into the g.p.s. It seems like it would be to their benefit of the safety of people that use g.p.s. To send verifiers during the bad seasons easy to drive these roads I really don't like driving the coasting road even during the summer pretty down there but not a great road you know it's a little conducive to carsickness the long haul. All right so it's a question of what your g.p.s. Is a telling you in a particular if the winter weather is setting in consider that maybe you won't make it to where you're going in turn around and come back with the Jackson County Sheriff's Department John Viles of the manager of Jackson County Parks and roads thank you both for joining us on the Jefferson Exchange thank you thanks for this hour of the Jefferson exchange. In our 2 coming up. 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From Jefferson Public Radio at Southern Oregon University this is the Jefferson Exchange now Jeffrey Riley coming up after the news a man with maximum talents and a minimum pathway to show them off in the United States Eugene Billard grew up poor and black more than a century ago he took as many gifts to France feel Keven Tom Klavan to revive Eugene story in the new book all blood runs red the legendary life of Eugene Billard Boxer pilot Soldier Spy Tom Glavine is our guest a veteran of many a biography this one probably took more work than some of the others because Eugene Dillard's early life in particular is shrouded in obscurity and his successes overseas still brought him unwanted attention from racists in positions of power Tom Klavan and all blood runs red and your phone calls and e-mails ahead on the Jefferson exchange after the news of the hour. Live from n.p.r. News in Washington I'm Lakshmi saying 2 banks are now under orders by a federal appeals court to turn over President Trump's financial records to the Democratic led Financial Services and Intelligence Committees in the u.s. House the panels had subpoenaed Deutsche Bank and Capital One for the records as part of a probe launch months before the impeachment inquiry into Trump's conduct in office the next g. 7 meeting will be held a Camp David the presidential retreat in rural Maryland N.P.R.'s Tamara Keith reports president made the announcement while in London to attend another meeting of world leaders the NATO summit when the White House announced the next group of 7 meeting would take place at.