Sometimes clergy and pan still Mrs are silent on the topic of abortion they don't want to hurt a little in their church with an abortion. Or intentions made it clear. That. Intervening. In the church hurting from an abortion make think they don't know me or they don't care that. They know anything but there's still the fact is we. Do care and there is hope and that is why we ban abortion and might everyone. Pushing everyone and the church in the 1st place so we should learn how to create elite learning to meet in the bush and sadly. Journey on family and Happy New Year next time a welcome Kandice along the program a lifelong Protestant catastrophic unexpected journey toward the Catholic Church after listening to the radio next time I need an intense. 8 pm Eastern The w.c.s. Live Truth live can feel like this is an ongoing presentation of the tourney how. It is an ongoing. Tourney. Good evening and welcome to The Journey Home My name is Marcus crowd I host with this program every week it gives me this great privilege to bring into your homes men and women who guided by the Holy Spirit discover the beauty of the church and often I think maybe in the case of our present guests often as a complete surprise our guest tonight is Chris Paget the list of what he was formally goes on and on a former Baptist leave God measuring a Lutheran as just a start but he's here to share his story Chris welcome to the journey home thank you have you here all know why it's taken so long to Guyana program but it's good to have you no matter how low the ground. An honor thank you it's good to have you here and some of the audience may know what you do because you're a speaker and a musician and an author always also in fact you get a chance recently to to share some of these books with. The book mark the audit was great mailable to hear about some of those books as well as get those the same as him. But you know I think you're aware of the journey home format so what I had only do is try and get out of the way as soon as possible and fight you to get an audience a little snippet of your early days where you come from spirits and I was thinking about this a little bit played a big moment in my life as a young person it was the divorce of my parents and that moment really brought my mother back into the church I think that she was Wounded Knee she was hurt and so she ran. Back to her roots and her roots were primarily Baptist oriented I think we spent a lot of time going to the Baptist Church as a young and for me as a young kid for her it was in a way says and for me it was it was kind of exciting we learned a lot of those great camp songs you know stop and let me tell you what the Lord has done for me you know I mean I never marched in the infantry there was all of these great men it was a lot of it was about memorizing scripture and Emma rising the faith so use and Molly is a good way to attach the song that we learned they were they were a big part of my childhood and in fact some of my earliest memories were going to small little Baptist church in North Dakota good memories I think it has right 1st 8 glue things like that and. And then we and then we moved on to new that couldn't have been a Southern Baptist church and. There was a lot of a lot of Norwegians I think we learned a phrase at a very early age. And then we and then we met I went to a different church and I think at that time we went to a Naz arranged church and for me this was where I 1st really started to feel the Lord speaking to me in a very personal way because. My mother wanted me to go to a camp like at a Christian camp and for me to go I had to learn the 10 Commandments the Beatitudes and some other scriptures and I just remember agonizing trying to memorize these these verses finally figured that out and we went to camp and it was the worst time I ever had in my life I cried I just wanted to go home and be with my mom but I have fond memories and I'm well up sorry so before you could get into the camp I had to resign the verses that you measure that I want as you know and yeah I think really master I had to I had a know all of these bible verses in order to qualify to go maybe they had such a huge amount of kids that want to Ted and we in a way that not serious ones you know it's likely that scripture memory thing I had been a part of my life as a young person I remember my very sick. 1st verse that my mother Tommy was some 271 The Lord is my light and myself a she whom shall I fear there's another part of that verse but that's all I could remember and I just repeat recited that over and over and I think from my mother's influence and the things that I was learning at church I realized that Jesus wanted a relationship with me and that that changed my life as a small kid I mean there was something very real about going to church and trying to say a little Yeah and I remember I mean I had a vivid moment as a young little boy in an answering church where they started to sing just as I am or whatever the song was and I knew that that was the moment if you wanted to respond to Christ speaking to you that you could get up in front of the whole church and walk down that aisle and I had this moment of trying to decide if I was going to respond my heart was beating so fast my mother was not pushing me at all and I remember I got up and I walked the longest walk as you know a little small boy I got to the to the altar at the front I knelt down and I thought I did it but what do I do now and I felt a little hand on my shoulder and my mother was there she was praying with me and a pastor came down and prayed with me and those experiences were very special for me as a kid I knew that my father didn't believe exactly the way that we believed but I loved him and he loved me but this big part of my life of going to church and learning the scriptures the learning the songs it started to mold me and shape me and I was very thankful for it yeah armor and so he did come to a belief in Christ very young very young private practice yet learned this verse for you so yeah I remember you member of those read through the Bible any year little hammers that we would get I remember always starting in like Genesis and then like collapsing in like Leviticus just it was a tragedy but but I did I realize the importance of reading. The scriptures and I realize the importance of prayer especially and that personal relationship with God and my mother was a very big influence in my life just by her witness alone that they Christianity was not going to be a once a week experience that we were going to to pray before every meal and we were going to depend on Christ for big things like I remember once we were driving home from a little beach day and we had no money because my mother was very poor after the divorce and we were running out of gas and so we prayed and just prayed Lord could you just help us to get home could we just get home and so every mile we would cheer and celebrate the Lord's provision that we were able to make it another mile with us adopting on the side of the road and it was those kind of really demonstrations of faith that began to as shown me that they Jesus was not just an idea and not just a great teacher but he was really actively involved in our journey but it sounds like as you describe your early experience with our Lord that just as a reading that your understanding of your relationship with Christ was your church was in significant which church you were going to write what you need to be a part of the church Yeah yeah it was really relationship with our Lord that's right and I don't think I would have articulated it like that but I think that's true because then we stumbled into the Assembly of God church now I'm going to say . The most I ever saw in terms of an outspoken gesture was the old lady on the left sitting in next to us and as or in church would yell out Amen but man when I walked into that Assembly of God church people were speaking in tongues as the pastor had a trumpet he would play in the middle of the news except it was crazy weird I thought this is the strangest thing I've ever experienced in my life but I want all of my friends to see this you know and then because I played music my mother gave me my trumpet said you need to go up there and play too so I ended up sitting up on the right of the church playing my trumpet throughout the praise and worship time it was it was a pretty raw. Tickle experience they would always play like that that deep in the night series and I always every year I think I gave my life to Jesus that was as I was afraid I was going to be left by by the Lord in the rapture and it was a lot of fear and all and a lot of a lot of joy a lot of a lot of people cared about my mother and loved on her and cared about us I remember just some men in that church that would take me probably they saw me as labor but I would go and take all the wood that they chopped and put in their trucks and they spent a lot of time with me trying to I think being encouragement in a male witness in my life all that to say there were many moments in my journey where I really felt Christ touch my heart deeply and I knew there were times in my life that I was not living for God the way that I needed to as as well so there was that that constant Caddick he says of listening to the messages and my participation in that service but it always came down to you know my mother looking at me and asking me basically are you are you really live and for Christ you know that was the big deal was I just going through the motions or was this from the heart so you were there for the church I was bringing into a deeper relationship absolutely it wasn't necessarily helping news recognize whether any particular church or doctrine or such was important but again a relationship with our law right he's a Catholic church influence at all during the money that you say to my best friends were Catholic and we would occasionally go to their church and I'll never forget as a young boy my mother saying to me as everybody was getting up to go receive communion she would say Chris we're going to stay here we just don't believe what they believe about this I don't know kay. And I remember there would be little phrases that would be said occasionally because her best friend was was Catholic as well that. This was her dilemma My mother and probably was was taught to her by her mother as well but like once you know as a Catholic you found Jesus why would you remain catholic this was the great paradox I was. Do you remain in the Catholic Church after you found you know that personal relationship with Christ but not her phrase would be and I had this is not disrespectful at all because this was just what we wanted like like why you know why would you why would you stay Catholic if you found Jesus and if you if you work out because this was the concluding thought there must be some Catholics who really do have a personal relationship with Jesus there you know but but it was a great struggle to see why they would want to remain in this place that seemed to embody legalism also you in a way thought sorry for Catholics I think in a way that was that was kind of what I began to hold onto because when I saw the other stuff that was in there lies only to be a destroyed it just felt trappings and then many of the kids that they were Catholic It did didn't seem like it was something they worried about on a daily basis like really living their faith out now that's a poor stereotype but but it is probably what we've done on the last I held on to that stereotype as I got older and as I started your ministry on my own through music if I met a person who was Catholic I just on a magically thought there probably there probably lost they have a relationship with Jesus it's buried underneath all of that legal list take you know shenanigans and I'm not sure why I held on to so many stereotypes and misconceptions some of it was kind of family driven and certainly some of it was from the denominations that I'd been a part of but I think part of it also was as I studied and I dove deeper into my faith and read the Scriptures I could not make that connection between the Catholic faith and a little bit of spirituality. What are they doing over there what is going on with Mary and really why would you talk to a priest of all all of your issues when you can just talk directly to Jesus I mean these are the traditional struggles that we all face and back to becoming a dad like was nowhere on my To Do list in terms of my spiritual journey. If anything I kind of thought that Catholicism was about one step away from a cult. You would bounce from Babs as a somebody as a rain but never thought the play an option Yeah there yeah never heard of that as I do that's why Best some of the questions that I think it's because when you come to the Scriptures when you come to the spiritual life with the presumption that what's important soul is your relationship with Jesus Church doctrine all these other things are just different which church you go to the right really important Soli important is your relationship with Christ then you look at a church like the Catholic Church and so as you see Catholics don't seem to be matching your understanding of spirituality right they just don't go together so this does take you on into high school this this conviction conversion Yeah I think that for me especially post high school I really I struggled a little bit my senior year junior high school just for some basic morality issues I think but but I I had a radical experience the beginning part of my freshman year of college and it was like a wake up call I was I was pretty I was pretty steep insane and some difficulties with even some drugs and cutting myself in promiscuity it was a mess I was at the very last I felt like I'd been brought up my whole life to know right from wrong and I had been choosing wrong I'd been even looking into some things of the occult I was I was and I was pretty messed up and I mean it was a big story but yeah but with those convictions in relationship with Jesus yeah that you had you know how would you get off in that direction was a little bit of was a little bit of the idea that I'm saying Didn't Jesus regardless of how I live no I don't know what I was holding on to once saved always saved at that and I think actually at that point in my life I thought I have gone so far there's no way for me to get back and then once I was in them all as guy stopped me asked me Chris. He didn't know my name he said hey have you given your life to Jesus and I thought Who are you oh why are you talking to me I don't even know you you don't know my life you don't know that the struggles I've gone through you don't know the mess of me you don't care you just look at are knocking about was so angry at this guy and I told him what he wanted to hear I said I gave my life to Jesus as a young boy and then I moved on and I thought I'm so angry with you partly I was angry with myself because I was at a place I knew I should never be spiritually I was a mess but I think that was my life a lot it was a rollercoaster sometimes high for God and then really at a low point for God so it was a one big decision against God It was a bit of a Try a Little did a little use it pretty soon there and then what happens you wake up and then you think oh my gosh like what am I doing where am I at I can't go back it's like Saint Paul you know I you know I've I don't you do right I've known how to do wrong and now I'm living in a wrong that seems like no I can't I can't get back it was easy for me to tell somebody I met on the street you can come to Christ you've done drugs you've been you've been struggling with you know problems you know whatever prostitution like Christ has a place for you but but for me I knew the right and I did the wrong anyways I thought I was I just was a long way from from Almonte damp and I went to to this class long story really short I had to do a speech in order to get a grade and a speech was going to be how to be a good Christian and my 3 points were pray read the Bible of vandalize But at this point in my life I'm as far from being a Christian as humanly possible and the whole time I'm preparing this time here's the voice in my head you are a hypocrite if you do this talk you are the epitome of hypocrisy so I stood up I started doing the talk and I I felt this weight on me I thought I was I thought I was going to die I don't know what was happening somebody thought I was having a problem they said put the put the chairs together I think you need to lie down I lie down and somebody prayed somebody said I think we need to pray I said please in my mind of somebody. Ray I'm having a problem here and they just said the Lord rebuke you sane and. Like this is a late letter to me and I thought what is happening today I went back to my dorm and I just cried I thought I cam so lost right now what's happening to me Akuetteh mind what I become I was scared I don't think I was possessed I think I was oppressed though I could have been playing with a lot of stuff I should have been and. So I went home and killing of a story but there was a messy things that happened I almost got myself thrown in jail probably by taking a knife with me to a prison cells that I thought we all messing with my girlfriend I had some anger issues I was really not doing well this could sodomy Chris I found Jesus at college and I had the knife in my back pocket I was so mad at this kid I thought what do you of course will say that you don't want to get into a fight so I found Jesus at college and I and I turned around and I walked away and I thought I let's what is this this kid who was so messed up in high school is really glowing with God's love I was brought up in that they cannot let this place getting ready to get into a fight with this kid who I can't stand who am I I was so disoriented I thought I can't get a fight with this kid he's glowing with Jesus he's losing Jesus all over the place you know I went back to my room again it was this idea of like who am I a lot's happening to me and then he invites me says Come with me to this college I want to and I want to I'm going to give you a free guitar you come with me and I said Ok I'll come with you I went to this place they gave me a free guitar I was really into music and then they said do you want to come of this to a Bible study tonight I said Ok I'll go you just gave me a free guitar What am I going to say no so we went to this Bible study sitting in a house this guy had a they had a special speaker I'm sitting there with all these huge gigantic football players from the University of Florida I'm sitting in this room the mother's cooking the son is playing the piano she's praising the site oh my gosh Trey you're such a big. Great piano player God is giving you such an awesome gift I thought like where am I What is this place the father wants to buy with this gigantic Bible in his hands and says I'm going to go read the Scriptures only other real money if you need me and I thought hey my father doesn't live with me any he doesn't read the Bible really what if at all my mother and I fight constantly my mother you know would love for me to be using my gifts and talents for the Lord but I'm a mess I just felt so out of place and then this guy who was a special speaker at the house looks at me and says Chris when did you give your life to Jesus now I thought about the guy in the mall and I thought about lying to him but I looked at him and I decided to be honest and I said which time which time I said man some Sometimes I've lived for God and then sometimes I haven't and I didn't really say it but I might have made mention that this was the worst point in my life and. And then they prayed and that night I Jesus said 2 things to me and I'll never forget he goes Chris you go home and apologize to your mother and you go home and apologize to your girlfriend for the mess you've made at our relationship and I went home that day a new man I thought because I thought Jesus if you'll forgive me I want to give my life q. And I don't want to ever go back I can't burn every road back to hell that I can and I went home and I apologize to my mother I told her the stuff that I'd been doing I wrote letters to every one of my teachers telling them I'd been cheating through all of their classes I thought I'm going to make restitution for every sin I can I can remember so that I can never go back to that place I knew I had a path that I'd been given a xian boy to live for Christ and I knew I had made a mess of it and I thought Jesus if you'll take me back I'm going to live for you for the rest of my life tell my girlfriend I said I've made a mess of this relationship I want to live for Christ we started him for over 2 years we were. Walked in purity we walked with Jesus I got married to or we're going to have our 21st anniversary in about 5 days and we have 9 kids you know God takes our broken lineups and when we place our wounded selves into his nails car hands like he can change us and I totally believe in a Scott of new beginnings and I've got I'm on it now I'm on the right path I'm going to live for you God and I thought every breath I take I'm going to study the scriptures I'm going to go deep and I take all of that great stuff I learned as a kid and I go to the next level with you and I journey began it was a little surprising well during this coming back to faith were you involved with the church at all or is it as a campus ministry of there was some Assembly of God church that we that we were going to the church the college that I was going to was a very Baptist going to college Interestingly enough we chose to go to a Christian college during during this messy time in my life. And I had this radical conversion and we got very involved in the campus ministry there and this guy Mike at the campus ministry at the school like loved changed my life just by his but by his loving pest oral presence just showing us the beauty of what a relationship with Christ could look like he kind of took Linda and I under his wing and we just felt so at home there so that and then this assembly church that I was going to just was a great place for me I felt releasing a music there and I wasn't actually you know what I was doing musically I was writing some stuff but I was so petrified to play any of it before anybody so Linda was only person who was listening to me I go to this piano room I'd be writing all of this music she was the only person who hear it and maybe a friend and I never I mean if I went and I played at a Sunday morning service it was it was with great fear and trepidation because for me it was like one of the holiest moments to play a song I had been given I felt it was a very spiritual act it was a vulnerable place for me I was I was petrified to do that number one. That's a sing a song at a wedding 1st time I was ever asked to sing a song at a wedding I wrote a song for them I was so nervous I went outside to walk around and I locked myself out I couldn't get back again so I'm like knocking on the window to try to get again there and they're getting married and it. Was a mess yes of the good a bad dream not a reality I've heard had drank like that where I can get that's my life basically when I said away to my bedroom office so and d.d. Had a life changing touch by our Lord Jesus I did as he calls you back to a faithful life which changed your whole life your relationship with your no wife. In your are you thinking at that time of ministry you know what I was yes I think I at that time I started to major in biblical studies and I thought I'm going to end up being a pastor eventually because I loved talking about God Maybe an evangelist but definitely something a ministry that's all I wanted to do so I got you know I took my great classes and took my Old Testament New Testament theology classes and I was Haven't the time in my life all my friends were ministry friends this was it I was exploding spiritually members and I stabbed quote unquote quiet times and everybody used to make fun of it because I would turn our worship music so loud and I would dance around the room and that there's a Baptist college praising God left in my hands memorizing scriptures pray and scriptures it was very foundational for me I learned so many Scripture references and I read so much in the Bible and I read so many theology books we talked nonstop and the craziest friends we had a guy who probably memorized almost the whole Bible. One of the oddest people I've ever met and he you could tell a verse he would tell you exactly where it was at anywhere in the Bible but he had like some said we're $88.00 you must add something like Rain Man I mean this guy was it was a very exceptional but but he had a hard time following tasks given. By Professor So we're all I do and I Greek parsing out our words sentences and things like that you know getting it all down and we would have pages and pages of this at the Denny's as we're up all night talking about God and doing our homework and we'd look over and bought had like one word it done because the whole time he's been minister into us and sharing to us so he walks into class and says I basically I'm not able to give you the homework but I could quote to you the whole Gospel of Mark so he did. This was these were the friends that I that I was surrounding myself with and I thought and having the time of my life and all the while I'm writing a lot of music writing a lot of music and I thought Lord what do you want from me and I remember once I was asked by that campus ministry will you come and do a concert for me at at the church I thought oh my gosh I'm so scared but yes I will do this and sell I played my very 1st concert I played every song I had written and I didn't look at the audience once I was so nervous and at the end I felt like I had this moment where God said to me basically that's what I want you to do for now and it was a rush it was such a rush to do what you knew that God had created you to do everybody came up and they were so affirming and my girlfriend wife was there and we just looked at each other and Amber we you know we had said to each other like we're not going to have a normal life or seem to give ourselves to God be sickly and see what happens and I was wondering if your may save your girlfriend wife to be was keeping pace with you during all that she was ahead of the curve she had actually seemed a witness of her roommate and that 1st semester of college and saw her faithfulness and and was heading towards God Well I was kind of heading away from God So when I had that conversation with her in the parking lot and I said I want to apologize for the mess we both were crying and we both said Let's just live for God and see what happens it was such a great time like in our life. I made so many awesome friends who are today still their past. It's all over the country you know that's what we were all going to do and b. And I remember somehow along the way I decided to pursue this music career and and I and I began to do music all over the country and then our music got signed by a Christian recording company and. And I started doing ministry and every possible the nomination you can think of Lego great people holy a wonderful people and all of these different denominations and then we were asked to come and do it right a concert at a Catholic church. And I asked myself like what am I going to do and I'm going to do a concert at this Catholic Church you know I mean do they even want to hear what I had to say was this a turning point this was a radical turning point in the eighty's and let's pause that Ok We'll take a break are necessary break. Because we haven't gotten to the Lutheran stage yet that was the baptism early on Isabel got you Ok I got another long list on make sure all that and we'll come back after the break and find out how that concert was a turning point in your life. Is available 24 hours a day. Or similar it does appear a. Little known you would like to receive. 24 hours a day 7 days or. More information go to c.w. T.v. And. Click on television. A. Little Welcome back to the journey home I must go dye your host and our guest this evening is Chris Padgett and we've the Paul. In their journey not a low spiritually but a high I mean there you are and in fact even a sense of this is what God calls you to do musically and it's great to have that sense but it sounds like you're taking an official 1st step into the Catholic Church to do a concert right and why was a particular conundrum for you at the point I don't know if we were going to be able to do with a normal type of concert we would do a bunch of music can challenge kids and their faith and all the songs are Christian oriented I just had this crazy assumption that that somehow there be this very big disconnect between Catholic kids and the music we were doing. And it was funny the lady who brought us and she sounded like she could have been one of Marge Simpson sisters like she just like smoked a Texas cigarettes a day you know them but they have a rug kids at the Superbowl party and so we came down there and we did this show at this Catholic Church and I was a little surprised because it went so well and then she put I think our word in for the Diocese of St Petersburg Florida it was a guide any time a critic was the youth guy and he went out on a limb and decided he had this crazy Christian band come in and do the diocesan You conference they said to me the only thing you can't do is do some sort of alter call at the end now he said that to me and I was a little irritated because I thought of course like why would you want your kids to become you know closer to Jesus but but then on the other end they don't I don't really do an altar call during our show anyways because I don't I don't feel like walking into the arms of Jesus is like you know again show answer this question correctly and then I let you come in and he had been learning a lot just from my own journey that there was a lot going on in a person's you know coming into a deeper intimacy with Christ maybe this idea of ongoing conversion instead of just one point in time you know so. Long in the short. Was that Concha was a big deal and then her word I think. The way that it was spreading for us to get to do this dance is an event was a was a big opportunity so we said in agreed yes we'll do that we'll go in without doing a big huge altar call we went there and then a priest who had like long hair when wearing Birkenstocks sandals and I thought this says kind of a cool looking priest like I've never seen it to be like that before and so we did our content it was amazing out of the kids loved it we had a great experience and afterwards they had like required confessions so that I'm a lot Eunice I'm watching these the lines of kids go to priests and I thought it's like cattle to the slaughter they're all just standing there and I think this is so contrived it's all forced why are they having to go to confession it's just bizarre but then I watched in these kids were leaving from that confession they were crying they were like sincerely like conch too and I thought maybe maybe setting up a required time for reconciliation maybe that's not a bad idea after all maybe you know life is busy maybe we just need to be asked to slow down a little bit and provide an opportunity for coming back to Jesus I was torn I started talking to people and because we started doing a lot more gigs in Catholic churches and animal I talked to them the more I found that they were really some holy people there now this went to direct opposition from my stereotypes and preconceived notions only misconceptions about the Catholic faith and many of them did reinforce stereotypes and misconceptions there was a youth minister My wife used to call him they the swearing priest we didn't really understand the difference between everything so much but this guy could swear the pain up the wall man and we thought My gosh he's running the youth program and this guy's mouth is like worse than any He'd in we'd ever heard in our entire life and a priest that used to come to our table and he basically steal whatever he wanted off of our. A cable without well you can have it father no big deal I mean it was just all of these odd people in the Catholic experience I talk to them about what they believe because of course I'm like fascinated with the ology I want to know everything I can about the Catholic church so I'm asking everybody all about the faith like Do you really believe that's Jesus or is it like kind of Jesus I mean what do you mean by saying transubstantiation it and then unfortunately got zillions of different answers about what they said that's what this that's what that's what it means. And I'm going to church is we're traveling we're doing all of this stuff and then probably one of the biggest moments in my life was we got asked to do the diocese of Gallup New Mexico Lena Clapper was the youth minister there and I'll never forget his journey because we went from southwest Florida and drove all the way to New Mexico which basically Texas alone took us like 3 days to get through I don't like the purgatory of United States of America I can't get out of here so you me forever somewhere along the line we stopped at a convent and I got a hold of a Henry now and book and I wrote I just blazed through that book and I thought oh my gosh this is amazing and it what's ironic about that is we had a pretty radical teacher at his Baptist College who required a Henry now in book a Catholic priest book you know at his back to school and never forget one of my my schoolmates throwing the book across the parking lot one afternoon he was so I rate at this Catholic teaching. I read and handing on book and just like a matter of you know whatever a day and I was blown away and I just began to read everything I could by this guy my friend in the band was reading Thomas Merton and g. K. Chesterton we started talking about all the things that we've been learning from all of these camps like you cleaners and priests and nuns got to New Mexico and the lady there at the holiday and she looked as she says you know and you guys do music finance and likely to do. Loveline is this as and I'm panicking because we never did music for the mass we only did concerts that he's yet the dense so I said to her I think we can do this I think I know Holly I'm telling you right now Mark is that how Leah would not have worked for mass Ok So she's got 2 minutes that is if she looks at me she goes let me ask you a question it's a little late in the game now but you're not Catholic are you and I looked back at her and I said no but the look we do catholic get agaves all over the country now we just don't do music for the Nass now along that time I've been reading a lot of stuff. And I've been going to Communion or whatever I was doing Catholic churches because I figured we're a lot of light in a lot of ways and this is a message I'm given for the Catholic kids I'm given for the Baptist give that just tweak it a little bit so the Deacon comes up to me and the next day in New Mexico he says you know you aren't going to be allowed to receive communion and I was so mad. I thought why and a little in a way I'm going to little surprise at how upset I am why would I care but I'm an angry and everybody's going to Communion that day and I'm not and I'm thinking to myself why do I want to go up to communion. Don't run I don't gypped and we were in state at this lady's house she was a convert from church of God She gave me Catholicism and fundamentalism by croc eating we talked for ever I took that book I started reading it I mean I could not stop because she I had been accepted to Jimmy so I had Bible college can go I had been reading chick tracks since I was a young kid and then not that guy but she tracks and other tracks on people's cars while they were at Mass when I was living in Florida I was so serious about helping the Catholics find Jesus you know. Jimmy Swaggart you name it keep Green's ministry I was super into that it was the perfect book for you that with all of those things you talk about that you know I said I cannot believe this I blew through that book and I never forget we're sitting at this meeting in Nashville with these huge record producer guys one of the guys used to sing for Kansas they looked at me and they saw all these Catholic books at the table because of course I was reading everywhere I went all of these books because that thought I already know a Protestant say about Catholics I want to know what Catholics are saying about Catholics so I couldn't stop reading I kept getting as many books as I can about the camp like they and I just plowed through them and the huge pile of books I think at Thomas Howard's I'm being Catholic right there on the top probably Heinz runs we don't know knows what else. And the guys look at me and they said You're not seriously considering that are you. Because we had we didn't find Jesus till after we left the Catholic Church I decided to say nothing. And then I bowed out basically that. There's a lot of ex Catholics in the c.c.m. Industry at least at that time tons of people who used to be Catholic. At that point in the game I was I was pretty stuck I couldn't stop reading about the Catholic faith and I found it to be a lot more convincing than many of the articles and of the theological books and and teachings that I'd been soaking in for the last whatever however many years this is a big deal for me because you see. I thought for me to get closer and closer to Jesus sacred scriptures read through those as many teachings out listen and teaching tapes constantly from Calvary Chapel guys to the Assembly of God used ministers who just taped their stuff you name it Charles Stanley I mean anybody that I could learn from I was going to learn from. And at this point in the game I mean to learn from Catholics now would go to all of these events and people were talking about the Catholic Church and I found myself defending Catholicism and I was meeting Catholic I thought why am I doing this like well what is the deal I couldn't stop reading couldn't stop studying Finally I had a moment it was a pretty life changing moment sitting in my living room all this time it was like I think I was reading something about Mary I had this like clarity it was like where everything just fell into place for me and I and I and it went like this it was like Chris the last 20 something years of your life you've been the final authority when it comes to faith and morals. The final authority. But what what if what if. You know I have given my authority to the Apostles and that was passed on from an apostle to a possible. Recession and. Those What do you do with the verses like I prayed that they would be one even as you and I are one I'm thinking to myself You're the 2nd person to bless the Trinity if any prayers going to be answered It would probably be yours I prayed it would be one even as you and I are One I remember that verse where they were falsely accusing Jesus of being possessed you know casting out demons by bells about brother and he says right it came divided against itself won't stand and I just thought what if what if there were only not $30000.00 plus denominations which I felt like at that point I might have been to most of them. But what if what if what if there were just $500.00 different denominations that still would not be a fulfillment of that scripture and prayed that they would be one that would still be divided kingdom what if what if there were 100 different denominations What if there were 2. And in the end I just Son Jesus. I don't want to be the final authority anymore I want to I want to I want to come home so I made the decision for my wife and I to start a that long here priest asked him if he would baptize my kids even before I finished r.c.a. Because I was so convicted and convinced that that this is where I needed to be because he was a matter of authority if that really was what Jesus had intended that he gave his authority could be apostles and then that was going to continue on to our day we have a lot of different expressions of spirituality with think it all is and that there's a consistency of faith and morals that is unmatched I know that because I taught in our I spoke in Southern Baptist Great Free Will Baptist what non-denominational Baptist if you will there is you know Assembly of God Church of God. You know I'm saying it's all over the place and some are very similar and some are very different some of the topics are extreme you can lose your salvation you can't lose your salvation like there's such a thing as a rapture there's no such thing as a rapture you need to have a baptism you don't need to have baptism in order to be with Christ and I thought who's right the Holy Spirit's not schizophrenia right always but it's not duplicitous there's got to be a right answer for some of these if there's eternal consequences and knowing that there are holy people and all the different denominations I thought you know what it's not a matter of whether a person has a relationship with Christ or is growing that's happening all across the board the question is Jesus where do you want me to belong and so I said I'm going to become Catholic and that through my mother over the edge she said to me Chris have you forgotten everything that you've learned when I told her I was going to have my kids that ties she was absolutely irate frustrated and I don't blame her. One day I think for her as an honest statement as I've ever heard she said to me Chris you becoming Catholic was the most hurtful thing that you've ever done to me . I don't blame her for that at all I can understand that entirely I think she's resign or something I'm one of the. Antics that are saved but you know where she's coming you know what I was coming from why would a person do that why would you go into the Catholic faith it's hard to convey that except ultimately I felt like everything that I had been trained to do as a young person to run after Jesus calm unaided and me saying yes to Jesus and the Catholic Church talk about a surprise that was not on my To Do list but when I became Catholic Easter of 99 our life changed my kids were already Catholic we had a long and priest he was the Baptizer of those kids and the godfather of those 3 like it was going to be an all or nothing mentality for me and there was nothing like going into that church right gospel tracks on their cars while they were in mass going there to receive Jesus and the Eucharist that was a pretty big deal well. To me it was a clear distinctions is that the as you said. You were the final judge before a what was right or wrong for your life in your relationship with Jesus didn't matter which church you were the different because you could boss from one to the next right really in a sense one of the powers and dangers of Christian music is that it seems to carry within itself a evocative expression of authority because you're singing in a sickly spirit you're talking about your walk with Christ but the connection with doctrine curch even moral issues it's just this relationship with Christ which can then open the door to whatever you want to be and there was a move through the discovery of no there is a voice yet of authority that you are to listen to and that showed up in a man you think I wrote I wrote a song called Golden which is all about the eucharist I wrote a song called Mary some Which is all about my mate my relationship with Mary I mean it it's something I'm experiencing and going through was going to show up on my music so the irony is that is that. Becoming Catholic is very specifically demonstrated in my writing. Now in my music now in my speaking out because because Kate Catholicism is very tangible This is one thing that was it was quite appealing to me as well because while in some of the non-denominational scenarios that I've been in there would be a negativity towards intellectual endeavors writer or pursuits there would be even a negativity towards towards musical expression at times within the Catholic mill you there's a reality of our incarnation and the beauty of expressing it tangibly you know artistic expression and musical expressions and and I found that to be so empowering for me we do express you know this is what you just did you do a book. Holy Mary talk a bit about the place of Mary in your journey because you really would have had to come to a different understanding of our of our lady it was under previous life. Yeah I would say that was the big hang up right that was I would make a list well this is backtracking to this so I would make a list because I'm going through all of this struggle and studying and reading I would make lists of the things that I agreed with and did not agree with with regards to Catholicism you know priest to liken that Ch'an Our Lady purgatory my gosh on and on I would have this list and I could see Scripturally why some of these would work and some of them I could not understand for the life of me and the big problem was Mary and it just was so hard for me to come to grips with. The Immaculate Conception Can I just say this as a Protestant. The Immaculate Conception was. It was the embodiment of why I did not want to become tapped like because it was almost a seemingly random day a logical creation that Mary is conceived without original sin What do you do what with for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God For crying out loud I mean it was so hard for me to reconcile I mean I talk about it and I would read tons of books on Mary and the more I read about Mary finally somebody would like speak my language and praise would fall into place for me I remember coming to grips with Mary as Mother of God Ok that makes sense right she's she's a mother of one person who's both human and divine great be a telcos she's she's that and that that's a beautiful truth ever burgeon going to be a little hard for me to reconcile the brothers and sisters but I can see why this is being said. Make a little bit more sense than maybe I had previously thought I would pray I would wrestle with these verses Immaculate Conception it will get back to that later assumption body and soul and Evan Ok I'm never in agony all test will be Ok with that I suppose but this immaculate conception I tell you it was hard I finally concluded you know I wrestled myself to to the point of acceptance here was I said Lord I've accepted your authority on every other thing all of my list is answered except for this area here I'm going to I'm going to do a little bit of trusting you here I mean I can get it I understand a little bit of the teaching here but but I'm. Going to reconcile myself enough Ok so Genesis 3 came that proto Evangelium the woman is going to crush the serpent and it see the woman with her seat across the serpent is you know Ok I can see that they're in and the teeth complete opposition so that makes a lot of sense I think I hold that idea I feel Ok about it I became Catholic but then I said to Jesus because this is the thing I always want to go deeper with the Lord I said Lord I want to go deeper with you and so the only thing is to me. Then you need to know my mother. Ok and I went and I had these teachers who were super gung ho about Mary you know over the top about Mary I could seem like they were addressing their Mary statue in the middle of the night you don't I'm saying it just seemed to be crazy radical Marian devotion had read some of the same phrases about Mary and I got mad and I thought I'm already cat like why am I mad at this and I got I just had a real honest conversation with myself and I thought I know land that I'm afraid of by I have a real devotion I'm married I'm going to commit I Dollar Tree I'm going to get to a creature what should only be given to the Creator. And I had this awesome teacher who said to me Chris you would have to go in the complete opposition of everything that the church has ever taught We're not saying ever that Mary is part of the Trinity the new quadrant right it's not bad at all. It's something beautiful that's going on out of all time past present and future she's the one who's chosen to mother the 2nd Person of the blessing Trinity she is that you are going to covenants right if you touch the Ark of the Covenant all Testament you died something very holy and profound going on so I jumped in and said Lord I want to I want to love you and so many learn as much as I can about a lady I studied and I study and every time I get upset I ask myself why am I upset Ok I think I'm going to come and I don't agree here why what is the what is the rationale behind that what does the church say then one moment I'm sitting up in my office and I just uttered out the sprays I had never uttered before in my entire life it just came to me I just said Mary I love you I said What did I just say what . I say Mary I love you and I realized I really did love her I really did love Mary. And I chose to start consecrating my ministry to the bus and mother every day when I take my little regrets to school I consecrate my family to the blessin mother I began to learn that that to. To just if I could just love and marry like Jesus did if I could just love Mary like Jesus dead and I would truly be that son that I am called to be and guess what we're not going to love her more than Jesus but we should try we should try if we could just come in 2nd or just 3rd or 4th or the 1st millionth right this is my phrase I just think if I could come in the 1st millionth Lord let me love Mary. Let me let me let Mary if I could come close the sale up on this Liguori and loving marriage I could come close to say next May Colby let me love love Mary like you Jesus let me read this e-mail because I think it tags on to what you just talked about Kathy from New Haven I'm a convert to the Catholic Church and haven't seemed to really quote get devotion to Mary the rosary lighting candles before a statue and asking for intercession all still seems strange and a little unnecessary will ever be comfortable with me. That's a that's a good question and I think the answer is certainly yes but you could probably start by realizing that Mary is comfortable with you and I think if if it were if we only leave these things to just some sort of done trying to understand which it has a rich doctrinal heritage but it's really about a relationship with Jesus and he introduces us to to his mother and that's what it says even a revelation right the dragon goes on to read later or with that the woman the rest of her offspring that we are we aren't followers of the Lord and we are given our lady you know what this comes down to for me now is and matter a mediation now it's a matter of mediation because within the Protestant mill you will hold on to the 1st one mediator between you happen are that's Jesus Ok so no doubt about it but Christ mediation is inclusive not exclusive and this is the problem see you would never it unless you're Quaker but you would never say let's just wait and let the Spirit do its work you know I would say if you're not interested in it some sort of mediation participation mediation then don't preach another homily or we could say present a sermon as it would say though don't sing another song Don't write another book as well at the Holy Spirit do it but the Holy Spirit works through us grace builds on nature so yes but we have a comfort with our lady yes more and more the more that we ask her to mediate to participate in our journey the more that she's going to be that familiar person so relationship it's interesting because there is a conflict. Protestants the ologies that have a problem with this because there are some Calvinist the nominations that for generations were hesitant to send missionaries because they believed God's going to save them he'll do it. Well we can do as a part of that art is irrelevant or unnecessary it's and so there's that constant theological tension back between conflicting authorities individual interpretations of scripture which stand as a barrier to understanding what the church understands about Mary and her place in salvation as a necessary part and salvation is not just an accidental moments I had to chose along the way but the idea to make the conception is that he had planned this. From the beginning of time yet no nobody that I know in the Protestant know you would ever say a gun accidentally picks us you know what we're what chosen by God right we're picked by Geim. St Paul's letter to the a.p. Right we're all predestined in Christ I mean even if you're not Calvinist you still believe this idea that God is reached down and intentionally caused our existence and and along for us to have that relationship with him for guzzle of the world that he gave the only began son he wants to have that relationship with us and has provided opportunity Prescott a relationship with us so why would we think that the incarnation would be like somehow like hinged upon some sort of accidental yes some sort of like medium at that not if not married then anybody Bellone who eat. You know I mean that's ridiculous isn't it how well what kind of a god is that accidentally pick somebody you know from all time past present and future he chose her and he responded with yes whether or not I understand why God would pick me in this funny shaped body to kind of go out in a vandalised and speak maybe maybe so that people of God can use him I think I can use anybody right but but I just honestly I feel like this this idea of like what would happen if you said to your Protestant friends you know could if you could spend a day with Saint Paul what would what would you do would you like that or not would that be great yes let's do that as Mary spent time with as Scripture says all generations will call her blessing and I mean there's a scripture says. Thanks Chris called the books on the other topics which you can get through a religious catalogue get a website Chris Padgett dot com Ok and reason I mention this case any for the story would like to know more about the details of the journey because I was a can't get it all in an injury home program so prisoner one and I think you very much could have a program here to see as it was witness you and your wife and how many children 9 speeding aren't they growing witnesses Thank you thanks for joining us on this episode of the journey home it's my present it was encourage me to. You in your walk of faith. This episode of the journey home until ever the t.m. Alleges catalog. Hours a day 7 days a week and type in I demonstrate age 7 to load m j a c or 7. C.D.'s. 188563162 place your order. To share some classic moments from the e.w.t.n. Archives featuring our founders mornings with mother is next on e.w.t.n. Radio. Catholic boys trust. This is the e.w.t.n. Global camp like Radio Network. Prayers for him and they just liberty all got our Creator from your providence and we have received our right to life liberty and the pursuit of handiness you have called us as your people and given us the right and the duty to worship you the only true guy and your Son Jesus Christ through the power and working of your Holy Spirit you call us to live out our faith in the midst of the world bringing the light and the saving truth of the Gospel to every corner of society. We ask you to bless us in our vigilance for the gift of religious liberty give us the strength of mind and heart to readily defend our freedoms when they are threatened give us courage in making our voices heard on behalf of the rights of your church and the freedom of conscience of all people of faith grant we pray all heavenly father a clear and united voice to all your sons and daughters gathered in your church in this decisive hour in the history of our nation so that with every trial withstood and every danger overcome for the sake of our children our grandchildren and all who come after us this great land will always be one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all we ask this through Christ our Lord. Amen. And you know it is he. Can't die you are men women and to doing. Nothing to. Me. Than. This is like issues with Brad man as president of Life Issues Institute dramatic events are unfolding in Iran and women are at the forefront of the day's long protest Iran is a nation were.