Transcripts for KRCC 91.5 FM/KECC 89.1 FM/KCCS 91.7 FM [Southern Colorado's NPR Station] KRCC 91.5 FM/KECC 89.1 FM/KCCS 91.7 FM [Southern Colorado's NPR Station] 20181215 110000

Is looking to strengthen ties with its former colony and Elim proving relationship between the Philippines and regional superpower China Howard Johnson reporting this is the latest world news from the b.b.c. Officials in Indian administered Kashmir say at least 10 people including 6 civilians have been killed during clashes between separatist militants and security forces a gun battle broke out when troops surrounded a militant hideout in pull District 3 rebels and one soldier were killed while the fighting was going on hundreds of residents came out to support the gunmen and clashed with security forces. Fighting between rival ethnic groups in southern Ethiopia has left at least 21 people dead and more than 60 injured the clashes between Somalis and almost broke out in my early a town bordering Kenya on Thursday and Friday both ethnic groups claim the region a local official said many people had to flee to Kenya to escape the violence. The Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison has said his country now recognizes West Jerusalem as the capital of Israel but in a speech in Sydney Mr Morrison said the Australian Embassy would not be relocated from Tel Aviv until the final status of Jerusalem was resolved he said the decision took into account the interests of both sides as their recognizes. Being the seat of the Knesset and many of the institution of the government is the capital of Israel Furthermore recognizing our commitment to a 2 state solution is trying to govern is also resolved to acknowledge the aspirations of the Palestinian people for a future state with its capital in East Jerusalem. A special council of Orthodox priest has begun in Kiev designed to create a unified Ukrainian church that's independent of Moscow crowds gathered outside the a sense of fear cathedral many waving Ukrainian flags and listens to priests chanting in the cold President Petro Poroshenko is attending Russia fiercely opposed as what it sees as a schism blaming Mr Poroshenko for pursuing it for political ends many priests of the branch of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church that's loyal to Moscow are boycotting the council b.b.c. News. Hello you're listening to the newsroom from the b.b.c. World Service with me and we'll have some better we begin in France where the or yellow vests protesters are marking on their 5th Saturday of demonstrations today will be seen as a test for the movement after the concessions announced by President Micron on Monday including raising the minimum wage thousands of police have been deployed across Paris to prevent any repeat of vandalism and looting seen on previous weekends speaking at a news conference yesterday President McCrone urged for an end to the unrest. Qua sicking Pieman I've understood in a sincere manner I believe what they are demanding and I've given a response that short term with sponsors but one that is also good was the desire to begin a dialogue and now I think the country needs calm it needs order it needs to return to a normal pace and not that well let's speak to our correspondent who Schofield who joins us live from Paris Q What are we expecting then today will present Micron's concessions have quelled the anger. Well I mean do it go to the expected where we're watching him right now and we can go into is ago there were there were thousands and thousands on the streets of Paris right now there are many many fewer they're talking about maybe a 1000 or 2000 protesters out on the streets of the round. And no serious sign of trouble yet a little bit of scuffles argy bargy but nothing really very important so on the face of it so far many would he would be reluctant to come to any conclusion just yet but it does look like it's much much down on previous weekends which of course is good for the government and suggests that yes part of part part of this is due to the concessions that macro and outs of Monday now Mr Crone had previously vowed he wouldn't be swayed by the protests then as you say he was forced into granting these concessions on Monday do we expect that he would grant any more what do the protesters hope to get now. Well I think I think this is where we need to sort of take stock at the end of the day if this movement today. Is anything like this because it was a week before the week before that then yes there would be more pressure but I don't think it will be I think I think the numbers are way way down and that will mean that the pressure is easing on the macro and I think it is highly unlikely that he will give any anything more away I don't think that's where we're at now I think there is a sense that what he gave on Monday was very substantial and that is recognized and acknowledged by a large part of the religion movement there are people who really need to do more but I mean their demands are all sorts of for all sorts of things not just for money they want to you know citizens assemblies and referendum saying that there is not really a coherent set of demands so I think that the pressure because of what's happening today the lower numbers is easing on the President Hugo shield thank you a federal judge in the u.s. State of Texas has ruled that a key part of the Affordable Care Act better known. Obamacare is unconstitutional President Donald Trump who made repealing Obamacare one of his key campaign pledges but later failed to get his Republican Party to find an alternative said the ruling was great news for America David Willetts is following events from Los Angeles what's happened here is that a judge in Texas has backed a contention by representatives of Republican leading states that changes in the u.s. Tax laws which eliminate the penalty for not having health insurance here in the United States a key part of the Affordable Care Act thus rendering that crucial part of the legislation unconstitutional and by default the legislation itself in valid Now this is not the end of the matter however Democrat leading states are likely to contest this latest decision and ultimately this could go all the way to the highest court in the land the u.s. Supreme Court the Affordable Care Act was introduced in 2010 the goal being health care for all something the United States is not experienced in the past now Republicans have been bitterly opposed to it they've sought to repeal it but not succeeded and that's largely because they've struggled to find an alternative something that is as popular as the Affordable Care Act has turned out to be David Willis listening to the news room on the b.b.c. World Service No John has the headlines there's tight security across France ahead of another day of anti-government protests by the yellow vests movement u.n. Climate talks in Poland have continued through the night as delegates struggled to reach consensus on how to limit global warming and Mahinda Rajapaksa has given up his battle to be confirmed as prime minister. Yes this could be the end of Sri Lanka's long running political crisis he had been controversially appointed nearly 2 months ago by the country's president but was unable to command a majority in parliament these local residents in the capital Colombo gave their views on the latest political developments going on in a. Beautiful Mind this is not good for him to should have remained prime minister he finished the war and was developing the country our people are not grateful I did with the beginning but it is now out of work that if the person who was prime minister had remained there wouldn't have been a crisis the only thing that has happened is that it is ordinary people who are in difficulty it doesn't matter who becomes prime minister as long as the country develops well in the studio with me as our South Asia regional editor embarrassment at a Rajan Berenson is it fair to say that with the benefit of hindsight this political crisis was basically completely avoidable it could have been avoidable because of what started as personal differences between the president might be part of City Center and the prime minister only recriminating it became a full blown constitutional and political crisis bringing the country to a halt the government was supposed to pass a budget a few weeks ago but they could not the country is in danger of being shut down from the 1st of January the people are going to difficulties because of the political crisis the economy has slowed down and the value of p. Has gone down as a result the prices of some of the commodities have gone up so what started Mr Serious in a very clearly stated that he could not see I'd like with Mr Redlich from a singer the sacked prime minister on a range of issues from administration to economy and how he handled the country so that led to the sacking of Mr become a singer and then he appointed Mr Baxter that was a highly controversial move because the picture was the president during the final stages of the Civil War and tens of thousands of people were. Killed in the final battle with the Tamil Tiger rebels the un and other rights groups accused Mr of the picture of walk crimes and abuses he denies the accusation so there were some other prevention about intimidation and fear coming back to Sri Lanka with the appointment of other backs up but he could not prove majority in parliament and later on the Supreme Court also said the move to dissolve parliament and call for snap elections was illegal and another court also restrained Mr idea from acting as prime minister so they were basically cornered by this court where this as a result he had nor that option than to resign what does this leave president through thin analysis position untenable he has come under a lot of criticism for the past few weeks for his actions and now he very clearly stated that even if all the 225 members of parliament support Mr Vick room saying I will not appoint a mess prime minister now all the reports indicate that he is likely to call in again probably on Sunday to take over as the prime minister and form the next government and borrow some interruption thank you each of you as one of the world's most serious public health concerns and on the surface Egypt has one of the lowest rates of infection in the world out of a population of 100000000 there are fewer than 8000 registered HIV patients however social stigma means many are reluctant to admit their status and as a result there's growing evidence that the rate of infection might actually be far higher to women who are both HIV positive spoke to the B.B.C.'s Sally in the below about living with the virus we have not used their real names to protect their identities very hard to let alone i. Don't know exactly if you know when you hear them laughing you'd never know what they have been through these 2 outgoing women in their late thirty's who are chatting over a cup of tea h. I.v. Positive Well Ok I know that. We met them at the joint United Nations program on 80. Aids you and aids in Colorado the only place where they felt safe to speak freely with Internet on life and they don't want to be identified in feet off social backlash. There are other diet called the virus from her husband a former drug addict she keeps her and his medical condition a secret from everybody even from her 2 healthy children she made the decision after going to see a dermatologist for a skin rash other than what I want to set up for she the moment I told him I have he started screaming Get out you will fill the hospital with viruses. The patients outside heard him yelling and got scared they thought I have scabies imagine if they knew I had a child. I felt I was not a human being I felt like an undesired stray animal that walked into the hospital and had to be shoot out of it I mean to get that Tatum in there which I said at 1st too didn't want to touch her children fearing she would give them h r v when she learned that it couldn't be transmitted through touch only via certain bodily fluids diet got the right information from a local h r u v n g o it's there where she met and became friends with Leyla I went out and I had been uncovered on my whole she also contracted HIV from her husband who had a drug problem he passed away 6 years ago unaware of his medical condition it was only through His death certificate that the family knew he had HIV after bloodthirst slow learner realised that she and her 14 year old son would h. I.v. Positive but at the I don't like there's a little trouble in mothers once her neighbors knew how her husband died they turned their backs against her novel in and out of his own locker in the nick in the holy month of Ramadan we usually sit up on long bank in the street for if dark it's like a big dish party after my husband's death my neighbors didn't invite me my son told me we're going to die like that no one wants to talk to us no one wants to play with me he asked me to leave so we went to my mom's I feel so lonely I thought it's only me my late husband and son who had HIV in the whole country and then I don't want. It and I know she says her son sickness broke her heart the most adamantly I have worked in such far when my son knew he is sick he started bleeding heavily from his nose I rushed him then to the hospital when the doctors knew he had to try Evy they ran for. Me and kicked us out how much I agree with that. Today the Egyptian government is urging health institutions to provide all medical services for h. I.v. Patients without any discrimination Sal in the bill reporting and the Egyptian government did not respond to our interview request delegates attending the un climate conference in Poland are frantically trying to finalize a deal on cutting greenhouse gas emissions the talks continue through the night on contentious issues including how poor countries should be compensated for the damage caused by global warming from got to be Here's our correspondent Matt McGrath Well efforts to find agreement to continue to prove elusive here and cut of it's a negotiator's worked through the night and into the early morning I mean he was supposed to be held at 10 am But that deadline has come and gone and no new text has yet been prepared and the plain recession that will decide the final outcome of this meeting has not yet been called there are some sticky issues that are holding things up here one we understand to be a dispute about what are called carbon market mechanisms these are situations where countries want to say plant a farce in another country and the question is who gets the carbon credits for that particular effort there have been various schemes over the years that have tried to trade carbon credits very different countries and many of them have been subject to fraud and corruption so there's quite a lot of concern about that we're hearing that that issue may actually be kicked forward to next year if so that might make the possibility of an agreement here more easily reachable However there are many other questions as well one of the problems here perhaps is that too many issues have been sent to ministers who have come here from all over the world to try and agree these questions so the likelihood is that those decisions will be most of them will be made here some may be kicked forward and the hope I think from all the delegates here is that agreement will be reached in the next few hours now to Ukraine where Orthodox priests are holding a historic meeting to create a new national church this comes after the edges. Menocal Patriarchate of Constantinople the spiritual leader of the world's orthodoxy recognize the independence of the Ukrainian church from Moscow the move is seen as a schism by Russian clergy while we can speak live now to our correspondent in Kiev Jonah Fisher Jonah what exactly are the Ukrainian priests open to achieve at this meeting. Well what the Ukrainian Orthodox priest have been told by Constantinople is that they will be recognized as an independent branch of the Orthodox Church that is separate from the Russian Orthodox Church if they can unite into one church if they can produce one leader at the moment there are 2 different factions of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church here that have been since the early 1990 s. They have different leaders slightly different ways of doing things they have been told that the final step they need to take in order to get official recognition by the global Orthodox Church movement is to form into one movement so they are meeting today and it's expected that in a few hours' time they will announce that they have come some sort of agreement they are now one church they have one leader and the final step will then come from Constantinople that Constantinople will recognize that the Ukrainian Orthodox Church is no longer part of the Russian Orthodox Church and stands on its own now it's a split within the church's framework as you're describing but it has a political backdrop as well doesn't it. Look anything which involves Russia and Ukraine at the moment is not just going to be about religion it's about politics as well so this has become a hugely political thing here in Ukraine that the president Petro Poroshenko has put himself very much at the forefront of the campaign for what's known as Thomas this is an independent church he's at that meeting today trying to make sure that it goes his way Russia for its part very unhappy that this is happening it said that it's break it that it is said that is breaking its relationship with Constantinople with the ecumenical Menocal patriarch there because they are so unhappy that this is this is being granted is a decision there is of course a further implication here on the ground in Ukraine an actual physical question about what will happen to the churches and ministries that are at the moment are controlled by the Russian Orthodox Church at present it looks like they will be continue they will be allowed to continue to exist separately but there is a lot of speculation a lot of fear that what we. Could see further down the line is moved to take over those churches and monasteries hand them over to this new newly formed Ukrainian church and at that point well people are concerned there could be the potential for conflict Jonah Fisher in Kiev thank you John has some other stories from our news desk India's top environmental Court has set aside a regional government order to shut down one of the country's biggest copper smelting plants for alleged pollution the National Green tribunals describes the closure in Tamil Nadu as unjustifiable the authorities closed the plant ever alleged contamination of ground water that led to violent protests in the Us State Department has ordered a non-emergency government staff and their families to leave the Democratic Republic of Congo amid fears that next week's presidential election might turn violent the advice also urged Americans not to travel to Eastern Congo and the provinces the campaign to choose President Joseph Kabila successor has been largely peaceful but last week 4 people died after security forces opened fire to disperse opposition gatherings. President Trump has named next Mick Mulvaney as acting white house chief of staff Mr Maher veiny who's 51 replaces General John Kelly who is leaving by the end of the year in a tweet Mr Trump described Mr Kelly as a great patriot who had served the country with distinction. The Miss Universe competition has admitted its 1st transgender contestant the beauty pageant reversed its policy that entrants must be naturally born women back in 2012 but misspending Ponce is the 1st transgender person to take part Miss Ponce works with a foundation in Spain helping children struggling with stigma linked to being transgender and she says she is aware of the visibility she brings to the issue by involvement in Miss Universe Thanks John to Australia now where the country's Prime Minister Scott Morrison has said the government will recognise West Jerusalem as Israel's capital the announcement follows a similar move by the United States earlier this year although there are as of yet no plans to move the Australian embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem from Sydney for Mercer reports Australia says it won't be moving its embassy to West Jerusalem but could do so in the future if the city's status is finalized under a peace settlement you know that the Prime Minister Scott Morrison said he found arguments in favor of relocating Australia's diplomatic presence from Tel Aviv to be persuasive he denied his comments were an attempt to influence Jewish voters in a by election in Sydney there was support from the Israeli government that Palestinian leaders said Australia risks becoming an international pariah Israeli sovereignty over Jerusalem has never been acknowledged internationally last December President Trump overturned decades of u.s. Neutrality when he recognized the divided city as Israel's capital prompting widespread condemnation of the American Embassy was moved from Tel Aviv in May feel Mercer we're going to end this edition of the news or in the sleepy Philippine tone of balun go where residents are celebrating as bells seized from its church more than 100 years ago by u.s. Troops have been officially turned over in a ceremony marking their return. To our Philippines correspondent Howard Johnson who's been following the ceremony Howard president there today was even there for the ceremony tell us about the mood . Yeah it's been a week of jubilation here in the Philippines the bells that she arrived at an airbase in Manila on Tuesday but made their way down to balance today this is a real big deal for this village people there still sing songs about the massacre that took place when the bells were taken and today locals gathered in the center village awaiting the arrival of President eternity last year he'd ordered America to return the bells and today he rang a bell is that you heard just a minute ago much the delight of the crowd each time he rang the bell there was a round of applause the bells had been of them were in Wyoming one of them was in South Korea they've been returned no is this is sign that relations will improve between the us and the Philippines yet it's important to remember that America is trying to really get back to better relationship with its former colony at the moment as a backdrop of improving ties between China and the Philippines the regional superpower president eternity had some sharp words to say about the former u.s. President Obama particularly when he criticized President would you go to war on drugs in which thousands of people thousands of drug suspects have died but throughout all the u.s. Military has maintained close relationship with the Philippine army and under President Trump There has also been a close relationship so really that has been a lifeline for America but this is definitely being seen as a move to try to improve ties between the 2 countries because you would think that President Trump and president to being having similar sort of persona as their personalities would get along rather well. Well we've seen that they got on very well when there was the conference last year but you know all of this really is really a side show really what people care about is the history that happened between these 2 countries you know back in 1992 there was the u.s. Philippine war when the Americans occupied this country the bells were used actually to signal an uprising against villages against American soldiers who were occupying this village $48.00 Americans died at that time but really what happened next is what really caused the controversy an American general said he wanted to make the village a howling wilderness raise the village and killed thousands of Filipinos So now that the bells have been returned I actually met one of the grandson of one of the massacres survivors and he told me that he could now move on because America had returned the bells Howard thank you Howard Johnson in Manila Well you've been listening to the news room before we go a reminder of our main news police are out in force in Paris and other for insidious as a yellow vests protest movement takes to the streets for a 5th weekend u.n. Climate talks in Poland have been extended as delegates struggle to reach consensus on how to limit global warming and Ukrainian Orthodox priests are meeting to finalize the creation of an independent church free of control from Moscow that's all from us who are listening to the news room from the b.b.c. Distribution of the b.b.c. World Service in the United States is made possible by American Public Media producer and distributor of award winning public radio content a.p.m. American Public Media with support from Progressive Insurance offering its home quote explore so shoppers can evaluate options in one place when buying home insurance custom quotes of rates are available online learn more at progressive dot com. Time magazine is singled out journalists under attack as Person of the year will talk to one Maria Ressa of the Philippine news site rapper when President Trump called the New York Times and c.n.n. 3 Knuth's a week later President to called Rappler fake news that conversation turbulence in France and the latest on Cohen metaphor and National Enquirer Saturday and Weekend Edition from n.p.r. News Saturday mornings at 691.52 your c.c. Coming up on the b.b.c. World Service the food chain this week away taking the kick out of coffee and hunting down a decent decaf but it turns out it's not all that easy to get the flavor without the fix and when you take the bounce out of a Bain the environmental and economic costs same stack up join us for the buzz kill on the food chain after the nice b.b.c. News I'm John Shea there have been scuffles in Paris between groups of yellow vest anti-government protesters and police several dozen people have been arrested the police have been searching cars and have armored vehicles on standby to clear potential roadblocks It's the 5th consecutive weekend of nationwide protests in France over issues including the costing the cost of living. The un climate conference in Poland has been extended to allow negotiators more time to finalize a deal on cutting greenhouse gas emissions a special council of Orthodox priest has begun in Kiev since a fear cathedral designs to create a unified Ukrainian church independent of Moscow Russia fiercely opposes what it sees as a schism blaming President Poroshenko for pursuing it for political ends. The u.s. State Department has ordered non-essential staff in Kinshasa to leave amid fears that next week's Congolese election may turn violent the advice also urged Americans not to travel to Eastern Congo and the provinces last week 4 people died after security forces opened fire to disperse opposition gatherings fighting between rival ethnic groups in Southern is the opium has left at least $21.00 people dead and more than 60 injured the clashes between Somalis on the rumors broke out near the Kenyan border in an area claimed by both a local official said it many had to flee across the border India's top environmental caught her set aside a regional government order to shut down one of the country's biggest copper smelting plants the National Green tribe in order scribed the closure in Tamil Nadu unjustifiable the authorities closed the plant over alleged contamination of ground water which led to violent protests and church bells that were seized from the Philippines by us troops more than a century ago have started again in the town where they 1st hung the United States agrees to return the bells following a lengthy campaign by Philippine politicians and the Catholic Church b.b.c. News. Exams you know when I was a. Kid. This is the food chain I'm Emily Thomas and this episode is a buzz kill. For many taking the punch out of the most widely consumed psychoactive substance on the planet really defeats the point decaffeinated coffee a man once said is kind of like kissing your sister in the judging me that didn't. Really want to come there and I feel really. Believes that if you're standing in here for these people behind you waiting for that car feeling you go to the seat and they think well one I waited behind your engine critics have to publish it because in the peculiar that I actually attempt to sell one of the. But do I British journalist Lucy Mangan once wrote that decaf anation takes place to accommodate the self-indulgent witterings of morons decaf drinkers she says probably think that ingesting a few micrograms of the mildest stimulant known to man is akin to injecting 8 gallons of crystal meth into your eyeball and following it with a heroin chaser. Now Crystal Meth isn't my thing but a good strong coffee always was so it was with a heavy heart earlier this year that I decided to accept the coffee which I love for its smell and taste doesn't love me back one cup among comfortably jittery. Unpleasantly agitated so I became one of those morons as Lucy would crush it. Almost 12 months a decaf drink and now am I karma Yes happier probably mostly that I'm disappointed it's hard it seems to get the same. Without the fix so we set out to find out why that is and why after more than a century of commercial production decaf makes up just 3 percent of the global coffee market by volume a figure the international coffee Organization says has been stable for at least a decade. What are the environmental and economic challenges of taking the bounce out of a bean can we grow a caffeine free coffee plant and why can some people neck 3 a stresses before bed and still sleep just fine whilst Just one has me staring at the ceiling all night wondering about the meaning of that old. Story starts on a sunny day in August at a food events where the vice president of Live at one of the world's largest coffee companies agreed to have a quick chat at last someone to commiserate with about the quality of decaf I thought the Italian heir to a long standing coffee Empire no less. Mark owen of that is the great grandson of the man who founded the company over 120 years ago. Your brand is known for celebrating really good coffee and Italian company what happens when you take the caffeine out you have a wonderful coffee as well that's a point you have it you haven't either yes we have it this is a bottle my father has fought for many years because like 30 years ago people would think about decaf coffee as you have some problem in fact that's what someone asked me earlier I drink decaf coffee and straight away the 1st question was why what kind of health problem if you know I know exactly that's what my father felt he for example after 4 o'clock 4 pm. So I was I was raised with this. Absolutely no problem with that no problem in your family when you will get together able to pass that no never never Ok so most of that says Do you prefer their coffee with a bit of a kick then. Marco's youngest son has other ideas he likes to do to prepare the coffee and he likes to put a finger inside of it without sugar you know anything and he likes it and 2 years old and to see drink decaf then yes. Because it may be better to give them to energy believe me. Decaf socially acceptable in Italy if you're a toddler. I suppose it's not surprising market told me there's no stigma attached to the drink it makes up 5 percent of lapses coffee sales which amounts to more than a 1000000000 cups each year so I thought I'd try someone who might have witnessed the Seychelle derision decaf drink a can face. It's a few months on and I'm in a cafe in shortage east London. Waiting for a man called. It's decidedly hipster baristas shout their orders from on to seemingly regulation it's coffee is a serious business and during the 10 minutes on waiting no one does take half. Josh Todd arrives. He calls himself a coffee professional he started out 17 years ago is a barista and he's pretty good at pouring the stuff by all accounts winning the u.k. Barrister of the Year competition a few months ago I now he source his coffee from around the world for Origin a high end coffee company and café chain the company to caffeinated around 5 percent of its planes and Josh insists that if you order a decaf here and no one will be quietly scoffing beneath that it pretty does agree that the drink has long been stigmatized the cafe generally didn't take it too seriously so they don't really care what you kept they had was the baristas one of tasted the decaf that they had and the roshi themselves were really care too much about the decaf they have so this stigma sort of existed within this place people just not caring and what about you because you really love coffee you've dedicated your career your life really to coffee one of the essential ingredients surely that makes coffee what it is is the caffeine the kick he gets out of it caffeine Absolutely I wake up in the morning I have a coffee because of the tire but there is this space that like it is just delicious something that we've noticed more and more why do people go to certain cafes over of the us why we kind of rejected more and more the super commercial chains over small independents and that's all tastes led and it has nothing to do with the cafe no one no one asked us really about the caffeine content of our coffee so I've had very very very good decaf coffee and that's just because someone made the decision to decaf a very good coffee and so the process itself doesn't actually harm. The final couple the much it changes it slightly but only slightly. Could you describe can you put your finger on it yes we find it slightly lowers the city so coffee the need to city because the city has a lot of those flavors that we really like and it's part of balancing a really nice cup of soup most coffees balance between sweetness bitterness and acidity in so what we find when we're picking a coffee for decaf a nation we always ensure has a slightly higher acidity than we would typically buy because we know that it will slightly lower what has been decaffeinated Why can't we just add a city into the decaf we do find that when you add additives to coffee it lacks harmony this makes sense in the cup this is going to get super coffee person but essentially the flavors feel layered feel like they're sitting on top of each other in this way that you almost experience them separately in your palate like they don't feel like a full flavor he said this is all about taste but this is one of the big problems with decaffeinated coffee isn't it Historically it hasn't always tasted is good coffee Why is that decaf has a lot of challenges with it and that's primarily all the added production cost so say we're trying to buy coffee a because we think it tastes nice in that we can then offer it to people at a price that they find quite assessable but then coffee b that's going to be a decaf if we want to make it in line with the pricing that they're familiar with generally actually then would have to find a lower grade coffee a cheaper coffee that doesn't taste as nice so from the word it starts out as the wrong thing isn't as good because everyone's sort of mindful of the and price as well the take half a nation process of the green coffee that have extra step to the coffee production process does that mean there's a high and fire mental cost to decaf. There's so a lot of decaffeinated happens in a plant in Vancouver Canada and so you can imagine the shipping lines that of the. Say you got a coffee coming from that coffee from Colombia we talked about Scott all the way to Vancouver Canada when asked to come to us we've now switched to some folks who decaffeinated Germany and that much lower the footprint so there is absolutely a slightly higher carbon footprint on the decaf and then you have the energy cost of the process itself and then you add into the fact that the decaf nation process means that we have to decaf quite constantly to always have fresh decaf on hand and that's because the caffeine in the coffee will actually it will make the coffee aged quicker and so that means we have to do it all the time but there are some. Things to kind of take ways to feel a bit more comfortable about that like the process itself has 0 waste the caffeine is sold to soda companies to make pop and stuff like that the residue from the filters when they filter the water after the decaf nation is actually turn a cow feed in the waters are used again and again for batches so actually there's like no waste from the process so it's purely a transport and the energy in the factory I guess. When you go on your coffee buying trips you're looking for coffees that will take a night. When you speak to other people in the coffee well doing similar jobs similar price to raise they taking decaffeinated seriously. More and more I'm noticing that there are so many especially Coffee Roasters now that we're all looking for a way to just produce the best coffee possible so I think there's going to be a quality drive that can be led by the roasters and then I think there might be perhaps the 1st couple roasters that make the decision to do very great high end coffees decaf and I'm sure that will happen to someone somebody is going to make that decision it's because of how the production works you have to decaf quite a bit of coffee so sure it's going to be slow coming but they don't make the jump I did try just a calf and it was really good and puts it back is more than double the price of your average supermarket brand. It's becoming clear that making a good decaf at scale can be a challenge so why bother why is it that some of us fail we need it. Well this is how 19th century French writer on a write about that described drinking a cup of coffee. Straightaway there is a general commotion ideas begin to move like the battalions of the Grand Army of the battlefield and the battle takes place things remembered arrived at full gallop in suing to the wind the like cavalry of comparisons deliver a magnificent deploying charge the artillery of logic hurry up with the train and ammunition the shafts of which start up like sharpshooters similes a rise that paper is covered with ink for the struggle commences and is concluded with torrents of black water just as battle with powder. I think it safe to say he wasn't drinking decaf I asked a scientist to explain what might have been going on in his brain Dr Astrid nail is a research director at insert the French National Institute of Health and Medical Research She specializes in the effects of caffeine on the body. Is sort of in fact which me and $38.00 easy cross use all membranes including blood brain barrier Jeffrey and toss the brain very fast you can already have it into your brain after torment it's once in the brain caffeine blocks the work of the sleep inducing chemical adenosine you will feel that way you have a better concentration so you are more efficient in different asks said caffeine can or saw stimulus. Try spear a should we go a bit more down to just if system is a caffeine that comes into your stomach might irritate you some people are more sensitive situation at a clear linked to it stimulates liver are it stimulate Pantra arse interest in Alcon tractions about all over your body you are more active in coffee plants caffeine is good for survival the chemical compound acts as an insecticide paralyzing or even killing bugs that try to meet them in humans though it's a bit more complicated drunk in moderation coffee isn't thought to be harmful to our health but in some of us it leads to high levels of anxiety so 1st of all we do not metabolize caffeine soon break it at z.z.z. Linked to different genetic expression of the main liver enzyme which metabolize is caffeine which is true and maybe it's cytochrome p $451.00 a true. Is all rapid or slow metabolized and the population is divided about half and half asteroid says there are also different genetic expressions of the adenosine receptor in the brain disease make p. Per cent city for insensitive to z. Effects of caffeine on sleep series or saw a nurse or different genetic expression of the adenosine makes people more or less sensitive to see effects of caffeine are non-executives or some people become jittery and nervous and address you've while as a people just don't feel that effect at all or so for all of you self-proclaimed coffee addicts out there don't judge a decaf drinker we really can't hack the strong stuff it's genetic and by the way Astrid also told. Scientifically speaking caffeine isn't actually addictive because it doesn't activate the brain's reward circuits you might feel dependent on it but you'll probably get a for any ill effects of withdrawal within awake. You're listening to the food chain on the b.b.c. World Service with me Emily Thomas I've been finding out what we lose when we take the buzz out of the coffee. Earlier we had there are significant economic and environmental challenges to producing a decent decaf. I wanted to find out what someone who makes their living from decaf in a sham makes of that the coffee is brought it in 150 pound bags these are soft gold but then drop it into a hopper Frank Dennis is president and c.e.o. Of Swiss water decaffeinated coffee company he's taking us on an o.d.i. Tool of his decaff an Asian pounds on the outskirts of Fan Cave a Canada it receives coffee beans from all over the world from South America to Africa to Southeast Asia the hopper then sends the coffee into a cleaning station where we're big Josh. Korder. Metal whatever that comes out of origin before we go into the green coffee silos preparation forgotten agent yes you did just hear that Frank has found it in his coffee. To these are taken into decaf a nation tank when 99.9 percent of the cafe in his roommates using a special chemical free solution coffee will drop in. Their green coffee extract is brought on top of the coffee in suits down. To Green Coffee removing caffeine as it goes stepping away from the noise of the factory floor a friend told me that there are just a few decaf anation plants around the world that use water for extraction and that some use. But most of the world state is chemically price asked some think that this is the best method for preserving Shriver but not Frank almost 80 percent of coffee around the world is to govern it using methane chloride which is for example a core component of paint stripper so when the Muslim chloride process the coffee is steamed it. Enlarges and then methylene chloride is introduced into that coffee directly very simple and when the coffee is at temperature and slightly enlarged from the steam. Attaches to caffeine and then can be pulled out of the coffee and then the coffee gets Reese teamed again to remove most of the methane chloride but there is still absolutely a residual we should point out there isn't robust science that decaffeinated. Methods do have any negative impact on how No there is no direct negative impact is there a risk in one cup of coffee no is a risk in 500 cups of coffee I don't know I don't know consumers we believe when they know that a coffee has been decaffeinated with methylene chloride they choose a chemical free process every time so for example in Canada where it is required by law. Packages or instant packages of coffee that have been decaffeinated using meth and right or Ethel acetate that you need to disclose to the consumer that you're using that chemical versus if you're using Swiss water process or c o 2 you don't have to disclose the consumer so in Canada our share is almost 70 percent because many roasters don't want to use those chemicals because they don't want to tell the consumer that they're using those chemicals because consumers don't prefer them so why is 80 percent of the decaffeinated coffee in the wild produced through the chemical method because it's a lot less expensive the process involves several additional steps versus methods the right metal part is very very simple the other major difference is that we cannot capture caffeine in our process so in methane chloride there is another revenue stream from caffeine which gets sold to beverage manufacturers what's about the environmental impact of this it's quite a long distance from iced coffee party says say the beans are typically travelling a long way before the transport. I don't know if the wealth to consume is so why all of us scifi facilities like this it is a big capital cost it's not easy and in terms of moving coffee around the world all coffee gets moved around the world all by boat it's not flown and if you can be closer to the consumer you are providing a lower carbon footprint as opposed to being closer to where the coffee is grown because then you can have various types of coffee arriving at one facility versus only one origin or one type emanating from of a facility so there is one additional step 40 cafe nation lots of companies have this extra cost when they decaf a night so they make up for that by buying a less good pain in the fast paced do you see the major change to tell your customers bringing in a poorer quality pain than they might give to that caffeine drinking customers as a whole yes unfortunately that still exists however there is a movement towards the recognition that the decaffeinated coffee consumer is in fact your most loyal coffee consumer in that they might be there in the morning for the caffeine but then they're back in the afternoon to have a drink that doesn't have caffeine I'm a decaf drinker I drink a lot of it when I look on the back of the packets I can never say how my coffee decaffeinated it's do you think that this is something that should be labeled Well I do know that in Canada the consumer appreciates knowing I also know that in Korea in Japan. Betancourt is completely banned for the Catholic. And we think that there is value in being able to recognize where your food products have been do you think it should be compulsory that I think that there's value in it yes. I'd like to know more about the decaf I drink but in most countries including the u.s. In the u.k. There is no legal requirement to state the decaf an Asian method on the label and when it comes to some of the large high street chains it's all a bit of a mystery and example for you when we asked Starbucks how they decaffeinated their coffee they could only tell us the green coffee is decaffeinated by 3rd party providers on behalf of Starbucks using a number of industry standard processes. It's becoming clear why this is been such a disappointing coffee drinking year for me decaf often has a higher carbon footprint than a spicy relative and because it costs more to process some roast as a picking inferior brains so wouldn't it just be easier to go back to the very beginning of the production process and develop a caffeine free coffee plant Well they do exist the trouble is 0 or very low in caffeine they taste disgusting Dr Aaron Davis is in charge of coffee research at the Royal Botanic Gardens King here in London one of the world's leading plants research centers and he suffered in the name of science so when you taste one of these coffees which is sometimes found in a street markets in Madagascar for example they are extremely acidic I've tried quite a few and you don't want to try them again you consume them can't we breed a coffee which has got no caffeine but doesn't have these unpalatable acids you're talking about and knocking out some of the chemicals in the pathway that make caffeine or. Water's the chemistry of the bin and that's the taste and it's not easy just to knock out a single chemical or range of chemicals associated with caffeine has a very difficult thing to do the do you think basically we just don't want to do this enough after you decaf ate Eve got very valuable commodity coming out of their caffeine so we just haven't tried hard enough to develop this cattle in free coffee plant I think there was a real need to do this in a real market demand people be investing more money in it and locating coffees are available the trouble is they are not very productive and that puts the price up and that puts people off if you look at what was being written about this about a decade ago or 20 years ago it seemed like there was a lot of hope and a lot of investment into caffeine free coffee parents there was a huge huge amount of interest on caffeine free or low caffeine Arabica based on collections made in Ethiopia in the 1960 s. This work was done in Hawaii in Brazil the trouble was that when they were growing in coffee fields the caffeine simply reappeared Why did the caffeine reappear because when you're looking at the single Coffee Bean it might have absolutely no caffeine but there are thousands of beings on each tree and they might be a freak being with no caffeine but generally those being had the same out of caffeine as they always did is anyone still investing substantial amounts of money in developing caffeine free coffee plants. No no it's over a I don't think it's over I think there is I think there is a market demand we read a lot of press releases about studies of caffeine health and that's all very well but I think the elephant in the room are other effects of caffeine and particularly anxiety when it comes to anxiety is part of the problem that it's hard to know how much caffeine is in your coffee that's a very good point and I think many consumers of coffee are totally unaware of how much caffeine they're consuming in each car and depending on the type of coffee used and the way it's made there can be a huge difference you might drink 2 cups and exceed your daily recommended allowance or you might drink 4 cups and be under so I think I do think there is a place in the market for a caffeine free coffee whether anybody wants to invest huge amount of money into it is another thing I've spoken to. Representatives of the larger companies and it's quite clear that caffeine is a very valuable byproduct of decapitation is a high value sector high energy drinks for example but also pharmaceuticals and cosmetics it's widely used in the drug industry as an additive to a whole range of drug products that said in 5 years' time there might be a shift and you know particularly with increasing evidence around anxiety and other health issues. Well here's hoping in the meantime I am going to stick with decaf but I'll be looking a little closer at where it's been before it reached my cup let us know what you think tweet using the hash tag b.b.c. Feed chain or I'm at Emily Thomas b.b.c. For me and the rest of the team Simon t. Let Sarah Stella and Sarah Parry thanks for listening and join us again for the food chain next week. There are today on This American Life Back in 173 the American Psychiatric Association to create that homosexuality should no longer be considered a sick. Yes it was a seismic change happened because the protesters cause it's a Cailleach is working in secret a man known as Dr anonymous only in disguise my friend and I talked about what would be the most. That was the next of mass that we distort a. Sunday afternoon survive on 91.5 k. Or c.c. . If you are looking for something to do in the 91.5 k. Or c. Listening area check out the community calendar link care c c dot org And you can submit your event there as well. This is southern Colorado's n.p.r. Station k. Or c c k or c c h d Colorado Springs case e.c.c. Law Hunter k. C.C.'s Starkville and k w c c f m Woodland Park streaming at k. Or c c dot org. B.b.c. World Service this is the legal hat in with the real story one topic one hour every week and this week it's not often that a rather vague announcement from the Chinese government about a domestic Chinese policy elicits so much interest and alarm around the world phrases like dystopian and Big Brother have been thrown around with some contending that what China wants to do will affect all our futures that policy is called the Social Credit system it centers around the idea that your behavior can and should be rated and you'll get perks or punishments accordingly Some say it's a harmless nudge to help build trust in Chinese society others fear that China's communist government has the technology and the will to implement a system that will eventually give every individual rating judging how well they conform to the demands of the state that's The Real Story coming up after the news . B.b.c. News I'm John Shea there have been scuffles in the French capital Paris between groups of yellow vast anti-government protesters and police thousands of members of the security forces are on full alert after serious rioting over the previous 2 weekends it's the 5th consecutive we.

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