094 point one f.m. In Walsenburg and love Fida 95.5 f.m. In Lake George and heart soul 95.7 f.m. In saliva universe to end Villa Grove and 105.7 f.m. In Canyon City for questions or comments please call 719-473-4801 during regular business hours you can always become a member of k. Or c c by going to k. Or c c dot au r.g.p. And making your financial contributions safely on line. It's 4 o'clock g.m.t. On Jackie Leonard this is the news room from the b.b.c. World Service is this video was tweeted by President Trump an incitement to violence against the media meanwhile Mr Trump has been speaking to South Korea Japan and China about what to do about North Korea as France Italy and Germany discuss how to deal with the Mediterranean migrant crisis we hear from a humanitarian worker helping to save people trying to reach Italy by boat apparently in a service trapped in a situation that is very difficult because we know we can not stop the risk use for the moment because many people will die also in the program Professor Stephen Hawking issues a warning about the u.s. Pulling out of the Paris climate change agreement to ramp sections good person leader over the bridge to become lately in the us with a temperature of 250 degrees well here on the news room from the b.b.c. . Oh I'm feeling the MacDonald of the b.b.c. News Qatar's foreign ministry says a formal response to a list of demands from Arab states will be submitted on Monday to the emir of Kuwait the main mediator in the worse Gulf crisis and decades the letter from the Emir of Qatar will be taken to Kuwait later by cutter's foreign minister Here's least who sent last week Qatar's foreign minister said the list of demands was made to be rechecked it but he said his country was willing to engage in dialogue under the right conditions last month for Arab states including Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates imposed unprecedented economic and diplomatic sanctions on their Gulf neighbor accusing it of promoting extremism and funding terrorist groups charges Qatar denies they then presented 13 demands including shutting down the Al Jazeera television network which Qatar funds as well as reducing ties with Iran a deadline set by for Arab states for Qatar to comply with their demands has been postponed to choose the President Trump has spoken to Saudi and Qatari leaders to express his concerns about the dispute he emphasized the importance of stopping funding for terrorist groups China has accused the United States Navy of committing a serious political and military provocation and its territorial waters Chinese navy vessels and fighter planes have been sent to a disputed island to warn off an American destroyer officials in Washington say the American ship sailed close to the island of trying to on in an exercise to demonstrate freedom of navigation the White House's incident was not discussed in a federal telephone call between President Trump and his Chinese counterpart Xi Jinping. China is opening up its 9 trillion dollar bond market to foreign investors the scheme will initially offer access via Hong Kong to institutional investors such as central and commercial banks sovereign wealth funds insurers and brokerage firms Giuliani is in Hong Kong the Chinese bond market is worth about 9 trillion u.s. Dollars a 3rd largest in the world at the moment before today overseas investors accounted for only 2 percent of that so the hope is that there is a lot of room to grow if the scheme is indeed successful and the idea is that if these bonds are accessible to overseas investors then some global indices will be starting to include Chinese bonds the party of Japan's prime minister Shinzo obvious suffered a serious setback in city elections in 2 Q a longstanding l.d.p. Lost control of talk use metropolitan assembly to a new regional party led by the city's governor. They are not sick I am very grateful we are getting better than expected results thanks to the support of the Tokyo residents at the same time I am feeling the weight of the responsibility. World news from the b.b.c. . The United States has lifted a ban on laptops in cabins on flights to America from Abu Dhabi the decision came after u.s. Officials inspected the checkpoint at Abu Dhabi International Airport restrictions still apply to 9 Middle Eastern near ports including Dubai. And on your review of the world's nuclear arsenal says that while the overall number of weapons is decreasing all countries possessing such arms are in the process of modernizing them the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute says Russia and the United States still account for almost 93 percent of all nuclear weapons both of expensive modernization programs under way as China is upgrading its nuclear arsenal while India and Pakistan are expanding their stockpiles expanding their stockpiles rather and developing their missile delivery systems floods in the southern Chinese region of growing Shion Hunan of killed at least 15 people and forced the evacuation of tens of thousands more further heavy rain pose expected in the next few days. A scientific study in Britain says chemicals flushed through the drainage system of course about 20 percent of male freshwater fish to exhibit female characteristics researchers identified more than $200.00 agents which cause this including some males even producing eggs Professor Charles Tyler is with the University of Exeter where the study was carried out these effects that we see is. The consequence of exposure to for a sewage treatment who is a real sort of investigative exercise to find out what chemicals are causing those effects and we have a main cause of steroids allegiance Asians which women produce lives of course but also components of the contraceptive pill but also there are other industrial chemicals as well Professor Charles Tyler b.b.c. News. You're listening to the news room from the b.b.c. World Service with me Jackie learned and we begin with this. Is the sound of a video tweeted out by the American president Donald Trump not just on his own personal account but also by the official Putu of swoon it's been retreat isn't linked more than half a 1000000 times it shows the president in a wrestling ring battering his opponent who has the c.n.n. Logo over his face a correspondent in Washington is lower because that is what the president not just tweeted out on his own Twitter handle but he also tweeted to date on the president of the United States protests at Twitter handle which means it is there no official record here and the United States won't have c.n.n. Had to say c.n.n. Has taken the unprecedented step of issuing a statement condemning a sitting president saying that it cites violence against reporters there are a number of journalist advocacy groups who also believe the same even some right wing commentators say the president on this occasion has crossed a line but the White House has come back and said look nothing to be alarmed about this morning on a.b.c. News the homeland security adviser Tom Buffet said that there has there was no perceived threat here and that Donald Trump had a right to have a goal at networks that regularly backs him when it comes to the White House agenda however on Friday for instance in the White House media room you had say a Huckabee sunders the press spokesman rending in the press having a really good go saying look you never cover policy you never discuss policy but if you look at the no trumps continually try to have it what is the one thing he talks about the media and here we are once again discussing his unorthodox behavior rather than his agenda he has earlier tweeted that this isn't just present. It's modern day presidential does the world just have to get used to this when it comes to Donald Trump's habits his base love it you speak to supporters the reason they opted for this night and it is worth repeating is his authenticity he speaks any punches straight from the got and they like that and that is the man that they elected into the White House the White House will also have to get used to the fact that if he tweets controversial videos such as this one the discussion the overwriting discussion will not be about his upcoming meeting with Vladimir Putin the g 20 summit or his health care bill the constant underlying controller state will always be about the president's unorthodox behavior because especially on a weekend like this one it's a big holiday weekend here the United States people are discussing the words of George Washington Abraham Lincoln the founding fathers they're talking about Independence Day on yet when it comes to the current incumbent in the White House and they look at his behavior and compare him to past presidents you're right Donald Trump says his behavior is not presidential is modern day presidential So and both sides we're going to are going to have to get use to one another when it comes to this kind of behavior that was lower because in Washington will mean will in the last few hours President Trump has made phone calls to the Chinese president Xi Jinping and to the Japanese prime minister Shinzo oddly in which the White House says they've agreed to step up pressure on North Korea over its controversial missile program a short time ago a sole correspondent Stephen Evans told us we've had the phone call with Prime Minister avi of Japan and we've just had President Mahmoud in Washington meeting President Trump in person now. There are various is used to be addressed but the prime one is North Korea and Washington is trying to emphasize that the alliance with principally South Korea and Japan remains strong but there are issues particularly with South Korea over the deployment. Of an anti-missile system for example an American system on South Korean soil when President moon met President Trump that is you seem to have been diminished the the Arnie's voiced by South Koreans before the meeting. Seems to be put on the back burner and all the emphasis was on the strength of the alliance with with Prime Minister the same is the emphasis on the strength of the alliance but there are issues yet to be resolved and it's not clear how they will be resolved primarily trade with President Xi President Trump has recently seemed to indicate that he's disappointed that China hasn't done more way back in April. They seem to be like new best friends the Chinese leader and the new American leader President Trump seem to be under the impression that China really was going to do more but of late he seemed to indicate well it's not really worked out that way prompting the question so what follows will President Trump follow up with military action that we simply don't know the complication at the moment at this very moment in the relationship between Washington and Beijing is that an American warship has sailed very close to a disputed islands an island claim by China and China says that's a serious matter indeed Stephen speaking to us from Seoul the interior ministers of Italy France and Germany have been meeting in Paris to discuss the growing crisis of migrants arriving only Tali insurers will than $80000.00 have made the dangerous crossing from North Africa in the 1st 6 months of the year Italy wants all the e.u. Countries to share the burden by taking in more of the refugees correspond to Romney Ryan has been out on a relief ship in the Mediterranean Oh no maybe even leaving. Rescuing migrants in the central Mediterranean. Even in fairly calm waters. As the rubber boat deflates people panic and the rescuers lose control. One man on this boat drowned. They come from across Africa and Asia many fleeing extreme poverty and war. The boats leave from Libya country that's descended into chaos and brutality. Like the French. Fortunate ones can pay for wooden boats but they too are overcrowded and dangerous we're on a rescue ship run by the charity Doctors Without Borders so far they've taken more than 600 people on board from 3 different modes and there's another transfer that's ongoing at the moment. Most are men but there are also women and children. All have risked their lives to make the dangerous crossing. Of the others it is among the group of Syrians he tells me he's fleeing war for the 2nd time. To make that you could live or you could die and you know the odds are you will dollars again more than others tell us they are simply desperate for work tomorrow could no jobs nor. This moral case 000-000-0000 point 08 but it is good for open to new school. Charities began operating in the Mediterranean after Italy terminated its own search and rescue operation which was replaced by e.u. Missions with a bigger focus on anti smuggling and border control currently in his Evie's trapped in a situation that is very difficult because we know we can not stop the rescues for the moment because many people will die while we know it's not a sustainable solution either. With Sicily insight a sense of relief on board. But even as the un sounds the alarm over the unfolding crisis the Italian government is pressing the e.u. For help and warning exports may not remain open to the migrants those around me were high. Reporting the Portuguese president has called for a full investigation into the theft earlier this week of significant quantities of weapons and explosives from a military warehouse the 3rd has raised concerns across NATO about whether the weapons might be used by terrorists Allison Roberts reports from Lisbon Portugal the defense minister has already described the theft discovered last Wednesday as serious and said that he'd passed on details to NATO allies opposition parties have dismissed that as inadequate given the scale and potential consequences of the theft Now Portugal's president Marcel her bell of the source there has broken his silence on the incident calling for a far reaching investigation into facts and responsibilities he also said that any links with similar thefts in other NATO member states in the past 2 years should be looked into his comments came after a Spanish newspaper published what it said was an official list of items stolen the go well beyond what Portugal's Army chief of staff admitted in a television interview on Saturday in it he said that 44 rocket launchers for explosive devices 120 grenades and 1500 Bullets were missing the burglary is thought to have taken place at night as a part of the security perimeter where closed circuit cameras had reportedly been broken for over 2 years 5 minute tree commanders have been suspended while an internal investigation takes place Alison Roberts in Lisbon now to an exclusive interview with the world famous theoretical physicist Professor Stephen Hawking He's been speaking to the b.b.c. Science correspondent power goes to mark his 75th birthday celebrations which have been taking place at Cambridge University Steven Hawking has had motor neuron disease for most of his adult life it's impaired his movement an ability to speak yet through it all he's emerged as one of the greatest minds of our time his theories on black holes in the origin of the universe have transformed our understanding of the. His main concern during his latest interview was the future of our species a particular worry was president Trump's decision to withdraw from the Paris climate agreement Professor Hawking said climate change could be prevented if the world acted now but the president was in danger in the planet for future generations we are close to the tipping point where global warming becomes serious or simple drum section could push over the brewing to become lately knows the temperature of 250 degrees and really show off your gas Professor Hawking has inspired generations to study science but to many which has been most impressive has been his warmth and humanity asked what his dream birthday present might be he said it would be a cure for motor neuron disease so that others would not suffer as he had one of the highlights of the tennis calendar the Wimbledon championships get underway here in London later today and it'll be a welcome return for the Czech player Petrak of it over the former champion feared she would never play tennis again after being attacked in her home 6 months ago she suffered serious injuries to her left hand and face to fight to regain her fitness She's been speaking to all sports correspondent David Ornstein about her recovery I had my finger s. Cut off 7 tendons x.l.i. On 5 finger us the last by and it's tough to say I mean of course I had. Some mentoring afterwards I couldn't sleep bad as stern and then I was still tired from everything what happened emotionally I was there and of course I had a bad 1000 then there are well played tennis again. Underwent an emergency operation lasting almost 4 hours but still faced an anxious wait over the outcome I was thoroughly Warry to seeing my hand after taking the band off for the 1st time and it wasn't and bad as they thought of me is it right that you still can't fully close your hand that's right which can't be easy for a tennis player Well I'm under other hand I'm like I'm playing tennis not playing badminton or whatever where is the grip of much more smaller things describing my situation by March give it if it was able to hold the rackets again and 2 months later she even made it to the French Open courage belief and part which means come on and check with her heart but Wimbledon was always her targets she prepared by winning in Birmingham and now incredibly she's being tipped by many for the title. I'm not here to to win it are either one of the biggest fight happened already it was Patrick a visit we're speaking to David Ornstein and we will of course have Wimbledon coverage here on the b.b.c. a Quick reminder of our main news at the moment President Trump has been accused of inciting violence against the media it's coming up to 20 past 4 g.m.t. This is the b.b.c. In London. In recent months countries in West Africa have suffered a wave of Islamist bombings shootings and kidnappings to counter the threat President McCall of France has called on the leaders of the Kenya Fassel Chad Mali Mauritania amnesia to join together to fight the jihadists speaking at a security summit in Mali on Sunday Mr Merkel said the Islamist threat had to be tackled. They want one thing to destroy us they feed off our weakness I hope ocracy our complexes about the past and our collective inefficiency let's work together what happens in your region touches the lives of the young and not so young in our countries they look at us they look at you they follow what's going on our citizens are affected by terrorism that happens here and acts of terrorism that take place in Europe opera Pead in this region our West Africa correspondent Tom affair see told us more about the proposed regional military force the plan is for the 5 West African countries to provide $1000.00 men each in order to secure their borders so they will target jihadist groups linked to al Qaeda but also drug traffickers in smugglers of migrants bound for Europe and you know how much that is important to European leaders such as the French president so they will be conducting operations alongside the French and the u.n. Peacekeepers deployed in Mali for example and in a way these new force will be part of the the huge security build up in the sand where foreign military presence has been stepped up in the last few years France has 4000 men across the region the u.s. Is operating drawings in Germany has boots on the ground supporting the u.n. Mission but they still need to find the money there if and now only the e.u. Has pledged $50000000.00 euros that's less than 10 percent of what the force is going to cost is made it clear that he. Would help he's West African counterparts in trying to convince Western countries fund this force he made it very clear since he has been elected president that this was a priority for him and this was he 2nd trip to Mali already which shows he's commitment to the region he came to Bamako with a small diplomatic victory in the bag since France had managed to get the u.n. Security Council go ahead that this regional force about 10 days ago he said very fresh it's not a mandate though so which is why they're going to have to find the funds elsewhere later today on his return to France President Michel will be showing that his presidency will be characterized by a completely different style from that of his recent predecessors in an unusual move he's convened a special session of 2 Houses of Parliament not in Paris itself but rather in the Palace of Versailles where he's to deliver a speech outlining his vision for the next 5 years President Michel has been accused by some opponents of overreaching his powers if you Schofield reports the style of the macro presidency is becoming clearer he thinks that shall the goal founder of the 5th Republic got it right France as head of state should be distant surrounded by symbolism and mystique above the fray that's why he's decided to call this exceptional joint session of the Senate and the National Assembly to set out to lawmakers from his position of supreme of already what he expects of them in the years to come and of course it's convenient that the session takes place in verse a place of monarchical associations like no other and I know Michael feel that the presidency was debased by his predecessors who either interfered too much in the detail of policy or pandered to the media he wants to stop that but critics are already saying he's getting about himself and assuming powers he should not have far left and believe say they will boycott what they see as a verse 5 farce Scofield chemicals. Being flushed down household drains are being blamed for making male fish more females and researchers from the University of Exeter in England think these chemicals could affect humans as well clam of Donald spoke to Professor Charles Cullen males developing eggs contain within the testers and they can have other structures in the testers which we normally only find you know over a female gonads which chemicals did you use to prove this point we've established now that the main cause of sterile at least a gin so is chins which women produce in their regular lives of course but also components of the contraceptive pill but also there are other industrial chemicals as well males which are so-called into sex where they have these female characteristics if you put them on the sort of competition with other males to try and breed then they're less able to breed Well can we do about this them the key thing really relates to so how we treat our affluence they're all technologies which robot removal all of these chemicals including the sterilizations but they all very very expensive things like carbon filter systems so we do have the technology to be able to remove them but the issue in Polonaise to cost what happens if we don't at the moment we don't know what it means for the populations we don't know whether it's having an impact in terms of total numbers of fish in all rivers or whether they're so effective in terms of genetic structure those puppies are something we don't know is point in time because of fish but could this be something that humans need to wary of as well well there's no doubt that this loss of study is now indicating that you know man humans are being exposed to an increasing number of chemicals and some of these are so-called And contraception Hallman destructing including the sort of Easton's and now there are quite strong associations between exposure to some of these chemicals and various health effects in humans even things like increasing the obesity reproductive potential and capability. Even some hormone dependent house that was Professor Charles Tyler of Exeter University now Vienna McDonald has some of the other stories from on these dusk a shooting outside a mosque in the French city of Avignon has left at least 8 people injured none of them critically among them is a 7 year old girl the prosecutor's office ruled out a terror motive telling local media it may have been related to a quarrel or a settling of scores the governor of the u.s. State of New Jersey Chris Christie has been criticized for spending a day at a beach which was closed to members of the public because of the state's failure to agree a budget the beach park is one of many facilities to be included in a suspension of public services Mr Christie a Republican told reporters he was ready to approve the budget if they sent me a budget today the shutdown would be over it is the legislature that choosing not to send me either budget so you know in the end this is going to be up to all of them but I'm a little frustrated quite frankly at this point that no one will send me any budget cuts in here waiting for a budget and no want to send me one at least 15 people have been killed in the Central African Republic as a result of an exchange of fire between United Nations peacekeepers and fighters on the n.p.c. Rebel group the incident took place over the weekend in the remote northern town of carbon Doro where there's been a surge in violence in the last month. Researchers in the United States have found that the success rate of couples undergoing I.V.'s is dependent on the age of the man as well as of the woman the study of 900000 cases found that older men had a lower chance of conceiving than young men with a female partner of the same age the findings contradict the idea that male fertility remains the same throughout your lifetime. Mexico's most active volcano public outer petal has erupted creating a gas an ash cloud 22000 meters high above the creature nearby communities have been warned to protect themselves from falling debris the volcano one of 3000 in the country has been active since the mid 1990 s. But has shown significant recent activity described as one of the most commercially successful acts in the history of popular music the Swedish pop group Abba dominated the music charts in many countries throughout the seventy's and eighty's and soon you'll be able to relive not just their music but also the life of the seventy's thanks to an exhibition that's just been announced in London as Danny Cox reports. Called Super Troopers it will feature original costumes handwritten notes personal photographs music and instruments visitors may start and I'm 19 seventy's living room with a crackling radio playing in the background a move through the years more than just another exhibition it's described as an immersive theatrical experience to produce support and terms as Abba was seen as quite exotic creatures from Sweden to in the 1970 s. There was a 3 day working week in Britain a hung parliament and economically the country was quite poor the members of Abba have given a signal of approval to the show and while there's been no reunion for the group since the split in 1902 this might just bring be experienced to life one more time this is an exhibition that's close to the south bangs own heart it's located just next to the station which is the name of one of the band's biggest hits Waterman. And that was Danny Cox ending this edition of a news room from the b.b.c. In London. Distribution of the b.b.c. World Service of the us is made possible by American Public Media producer and distributor of award winning public radio contact a.p.m. American Public Media with support from home advisors matching homeowners with background checks professionals for home projects for minor repairs to major remodels see homeowner reviews compare prices and book appointments at Home Advisor dot com. You know I drive junky car Hello this is Nina Totenberg when my husband and I were courting he was really scandalized by my very old Mazda 626 and when we were invited to a state dinner at the White House he said that I should rent a fancier car I review of course it's amazing to think that I kissed her and that cars into my favorite programs go to k r c c daughter work tales. If you were one of those people who never quite fully grasped what quadratic equations were all about and thought that math was new to think of in this week's episode of the conversation it's for you 2 women on the mission to rid the world of math phobia one a British mathematician who shows the magic of math through desert. The other from Portugal who use a street performance to engage the public explain why math Matus and what can be done about the math gender gap often the news. B.b.c. News if you own a McDonald Qatar has been given another 48 hours to comply with a list of demands from its Gulf Arab neighbors but Qatar has already indicated it will not bow to the demands which include downgrading ties with Iran and closing its international border Al-Jazeera a bigger part in its international broadcaster Algis ear President Trump has meanwhile spoken to Saudi and Qatari leaders to express his concerns about the continuing dispute. China's accuse the United States of committing a serious political and military provocation in its territorial waters a u.s. Destroyer still close to a disputed island claimed by China in what Washington called an exercise to demonstrate freedom of navigation China is opening up its 9 trillion dollar bond market to foreign investors the scheme will initially offer access via Hong Kong to institutions such as banks insurers and brokerage firms. Reports in the Syrian city of Raka cus back forces have made progress in the south of the Islamic state stronghold monitor said Syrian democratic forces as easy a hallmark it area and we're fending off an i.a.s. Counterattack. The United States has lifted a ban on laptops and cabins on flights to America from Abu Dhabi restrictions still apply to 9 Middle Eastern ear ports. Floods in southern China have killed at least 15 people and forced the evacuation of tens of thousands more the authorities in the regions of Guangxi in Hunan of sent tents food water and medicines to the affected areas and then annual review of the world's nuclear arsenal says that while the overall number of weapons is decreasing all countries possessing such arms are in the process of modernizing them the review says Russia and the United States both have expensive modernization programs underway b.b.c. News. A woman Welcome to the conversation the program with an all female perspective every week I chat with 2 women from different countries with something in common I'm Kim Chaco needs are and when I cast my mind back to my school days I'd like to think that I was a decent each student except when it came to one subject mathematics my aversion to numbers is a mystery and I still get a little bit ichi thinking of those torture a situ is the afternoons when I had a double period of it and had to wade through trigonometry and directed numbers my guess today say it does not have to be that way they have an impish is fiction to rid the world of math failure and one unusual way of doing it is through street performance my 1st guest star a sample she can be found in schools public squares and at festivals with a top hat on playfully engaging the public and fun practical that's related dilemma's through her organization mats busking originally from Portugal She's also a part time mathematics lecturer sorry Welcome thank you. I've been told that I need to have my calculator on standby and I'm a bit nervous I have been going you know quizzes can we just get that either way no quizzes I don't like being tested the only question I've got can you press the buttons in your calculator again call or go to Ok Perfect Ok and listeners also need to have the calculators on the ready and so you let us know what we need to do when we need to do it my other guests Eugenia Chang has in the past use puff pastry and custard to bring mathematical concepts to life she's written 2 popular books about math including one titled beyond infinity an expedition to the outer limits of mathematics She's currently a scientist in residence at the School of Art Institute in Chicago Eugenia Welcome to you thank you very much for having me let's start at the beginning because I'm curious how you developed a passion for math were you exposed to it at home Eugenia Yes I was exposed to math at home because fortunately for me my mother she works in statistics. And she showed me the most fun and exciting little pieces of math when I was growing up so she showed me really exciting things that captured my imagination and convinced me that there was something much more exciting out that than the things we were doing at school you see captured you imagination Well one of the 1st things I remember is that she showed me how you can draw a graph that corresponds to squaring a number and this just made my brain stretch out in strange ways I hadn't felt before and that got me really excited somehow about pictures and math being part of the same thing so while. I've not heard of someone they had their 1st math fun moments with Graph So it's really cool it is very cool and my mother also made sure that math was always a part of daily life not just by counting things or by sitting down for breakfast and say oh let's do some times tables but just by seeing it everywhere and by talking about it and incorporating it into life and having less of a boundary between what is math and what isn't math can help so that you don't have a chance to go oh no it isn't much help I'm scared whereas it's just all around us like words and like music and like nature and it's just part of life I'm quite curious Who do you know that you mention seeing a graph will transform numbers into squares where you fascinated by square as well because I probably remember being fascinated by squares and I don't remember being fascinated by numbers at all and I admit I'm still not really in any way interested by numbers and so came when you said something about you not getting on with numbers I thought that's Ok actually because math isn't just about numbers it's about understanding things and one of the myths about math I think is that it's all about numbers and all about adding in multiplying and doing arithmetic very fast whereas it's possible to be that great at arithmetic but to be able to understand. And abstract mathematical structures that's like how things fit together like building Lego or like baking and using ingredients to make something delicious and because I've been teaching art students they're all very good at some aspects of oughts and many of them are by their own admission pretty terrible at mathematics at least pretty terrible arithmetic and some of the students that so weak as arithmetic that they can't really do basic multiplication certainly not division and yet when I show them abstract structures or talk about things like generalizing a circle into higher dimensions they can do that and they can get excited by it and so they can bypass those terrible things like long division or other like pointless exercises like that but understand how things work logically and that is a key I think to having a brain that functions well yeah that one important part of math that is also common with other sciences is that it's Ok not to know it's important to deal with I wanted to say the word failure as in you haven't worked things out yet but not failure in the sense of or you really rubbish because you haven't done this thing about so I think that's a very important aspect you need to understand that when you don't know something that's more exciting because you're about to go on a journey to find things out and that you don't do it alone that there's either people there already have the knowledge people there or can relate to that knowledge people that can help you think you know it's you can be a social activity as well and I think all these things we talk about that you describing about your experience with math and that I'm spouting out here is it's not like what you were doing school well I want to come back to the school philosophy in a 2nd but I want to ask you sorry what sparked your interest in that I'm not really sure unlike you genius I didn't have much formal math around me I mean I used to do quite a lot of paper folding and paper cutting and. Constructing things out of paper and my mom is a dressmaker and my dad used to make things as well so I think that aspect of just sorting things out whether it is cloth or paper or numbers I think that dressmaking have a lot of math in it that you don't necessarily think of as must some people say it's applied to policy typology being the study of shapes of things and has a lot of study of surfaces and dressmaking consists of taking something that's basically flat a piece of material and turning it into something 3 dimensional with an interesting shape and I love clothes that have particularly peculiar shapes so that when you take them off the handle you can't tell what they're doing at all which means that they have really interesting to policy and I admit that's me thinking rather mathematically about clothes but I really do believe that math is everywhere and that being exposed to math at home in some form is really fantastic for children and like to talk a little bit more about the way we learn math at school you both have touched on this a little bit but I want to get into it specifically because my encounters with math were about learning so it was always attends encounter. But there has to be a degree of rote learning right I think the other had about you multiple tables like you need to learn I got recently not learnt any multiplication tables and I astonished people when I say that and nobody ever believes me but I honestly haven't Well I memorized 2 of them I memorize 67 and 7 eighth's but those are the only 2 that I've memorized honestly can I have 5 you. Actual high 5 yeah you do you know you must because you know I didn't the only reason I needed to learn them was because back in Portugal at that time and very mind my primary school teacher was outstanding in the way that she didn't use corporal punishment like he was still common in other classes and we would have the threat of a wooden ruler being. Used on our hands if we didn't know them so that was and I think I was more concerned with the humiliation of being punished in front of everyone else but I didn't have a problem with it because I could usually work it out well I just had the thing that I thought he was inappropriate to be made to memorize so I kind of refused to the same with train lines were supposed to memorize train lines in Portugal at that time was ridiculous and I would like to go I know but so no I think Kim you saying do we have to learn some of these by rote you don't because if you were engaged with things for long enough they just become part of you you would just know the facts right out some of them you can understand for example if you're doing 2 times 2 you can picture 4 dots in a square and that's a pretty easy picture to have in your head and so it's a 3 by 2 grid 6 dots in a 2 by 3 grid we see them on things like dominoes and once you've seen that enough times you have that picture in your head and then it's not really quite the same as rote learning it's still in your memory somewhere but I wouldn't say there has been rote learned because when I talk to my art students about why they were put off math in school they all say that memorization is one of the things that put them off whereas if you use something and feel it and get a feel for it somehow goes into a different part of your brain I guess my question is if you're in a classroom of like 30 pupils of varying degrees of math skills I just wonder if you can always have the privilege of sitting down getting them to fully understand different things and just having that one on one time what you were talking about seems to be an approach that requires time and money and not everyone has that it does require time that's why we should invest more in any deviation because the thing is at the moment we're using the resources that we have and I just really don't think we're cheating anything and I think that's a much worse waste of resources if we're going to think about whether it's expensive we're. It spending all this time and money on teaching things that so many people end up hating and as a result they just expel it from their brains as fast as possible I mean how many people a so relieved when they finish having to do math and they never have to do it again feel you and then what is it that they use in their daily lives well not very much because even arithmetic we don't need to do any more because we've all got calculators on our phones but you do know it was that Eugene yelling Let me tell you nothing but you do you does work it does work for some people right but those people will be Ok anyway so what about all those other people that we're completely putting off so it was a lesson to use those resources to not put people off I read somewhere and I agreed with that I must admit someone saying we'd actually achieve more if we just stopped teaching math altogether Oh I don't hurt that are you and we went away putting anyone off yet and the people who like math will still be able to do the math that they like and instead of achieving a negative result we did she 0 which is better than a negative result yes I'm half right there so do you agree seems a bit extreme It sounds extreme really but I see the argument I think if we stop teaching math that will probably give us an option of returning to it in a new way rather than in the same way let's talk about your work because you use street performance to make math positive and fun give us an example of what you did not teaching people to do math in the street and just having a good time and show someone something curious that has the appearance of a trick or something magical and the reason for it to work is that it's not sleight of hand or any other trickery Ok so that's the idea and and this wasn't one of the tricks we do and this is the one where anyone listening can get their calculator say I have my eyes out great and by ready I mean you've got the screen blank but working and you have tested that your calculator really really works Ok what we do is you think of a 3 digit number like 123 but don't do 100. 23 because I know that one case so you write your 3 Digit magic number on your calculator and then let's write the same number again so you end up with 6 digits Ok so you know that in just this right it isn't Ok you see it no matter required so I'd just write it again and now you have a 6 digit number in front of you that it's secret to me and I'm going to control the calculator so it's going to get rid of the bad luck by dividing this big number by 13 because so many people think it's unlucky and when you press equals you should get a result of that is a whole number because the decimal point isn't working I'm controlling a calculator got it and now we divide by another number number 11 yes done that and when you press equals he still have a whole number as a result of the decimal point and you wonder is that a pattern well 13 is a prime number in same with 11 a prime number is a number that cannot be divided by any other numbers other than one and itself but hang on we're not going to get very geeky here we're going to divide by your 3 digits magic number Ok which she wondered did I remember this number hope you do and when you divide by your 3 Digit magic number you should get my message on your screen she got my message number 7 yes. I'm Sarah a z so. Now of course yes that what's why can we figure this out how do we tackle this well what numbers do I control I don't control the magic number but I do control your division by 13 division by 11 and the final message 7 so this 3 numbers in this game that I control and how they related Well I ask you to divide by 13 divided by 11 I do lots of divisions to reverse engineer the problem you would do multiplications is how you go backwards on a division problem so if you multiply the numbers I control 7 time. It's 11 times 13 which I'm like spec need to do is mental arithmetic you can use a calculator to do that you get a 1001 as a result I guess so far so good what's so important about 1001 well 1001 multiplied by your magic number draw a try Ok if you run your 3 Digit magic number I think it was 123 times 1001 you get 103001 123 and same works with your 3 Digit magic number that that what exactly. These are when you go out and you do these I mean who you doing it for you and says it very So if is a sts Garrick it's whoever is around now days I do more festivals like Glastonbury festival the main thing in my business is catering for schools and sometimes for companies as well but is mostly about doing workshop stage shows where mathematics is the central part and when you go into school what are you wearing you know how you're preaching at your schools so all my costume is a ridiculously yellow top hats waistcoat and trousers like a magician but turned yellow something wrong in the laundry I find my costume important and that's one of the things you learn from streets and trainers and other entertainers is that the way you come across is important of a laugh last impression that's non-threatening image can put people at ease Ok let's just take a little break records to remind you that you're on the conversation today with talking with 2 women on a mission to get people to appreciate the joy and beauty of mathematics that are Eugenia chain is credited with making math a piece of cake literally by using baking to explain complex concepts in her books and on her popular You Tube channel and sitting across from me in the London studio is Sarah central she and Portuguese mathematician and founder of math busking which teaches math to street performance you do you specialize in using baking to. Explain complex mathematical principles why baking baking is something I've always loved doing and it involves taking some basic ingredients and putting them together in interesting ways to create things that are delicious and I love baking desserts and cake especially And the reason I like it is because it's completely nutritionally pointless which means it exists only for my enjoyment and I love thinking of math as something that is for enjoyment Yes it is useful but I think that if we emphasize how useful it is too much then that makes it sound a bit boring and so I try to emphasize just the sheer curiosity and interest and as star says kind of the magic of mathematics where you can put some simple things together and get something really exciting and something that you can feel this all started when I was teaching quite a high level advanced undergraduate algebra course actually at the University of Sheffield and I wanted my students to feel something so if I tell stories about food it turns out that everyone kind of perks up and has some emotional connection whether it's good or bad and that is a good starting point and I realized that I could explain practically anything using some kind of food or baking analogy how do you explain exponential growth what's the best way to do that exponential growth there she loads of ways doing this but one is using puff pastry which is the most delicious kind of pastry in my opinion because it has the most butter and so course it's the most delicious because it has the most fights in it anyway the way that you make it is really amazing because you take the there's some pastry dough and you wrap it around a block of butter So 1st this is the really fun part you bash the butter with a rolling pin to make it soft so that it's the same consistency as the dough around it and you wrap it up and you roll it out so that the dough and the butter in the middle of the package get thin equally because they're the same consistencies it becomes then. And then you fold it in 3 So you multiply the number of layers by 3 and then you roll it out again so all the layers become equally thin and you fold it in 3 again so that multiplies by 3 so you keep folding it in thirds and rolling it out so that the number of layers multiplies by 3 repeatedly and that's why exponentials are there what happens when you multiply something repeatedly and the amazing thing is that if you multiply something by 3 repeatedly and maybe still got your calculator out and so you can try just hitting times 3 lots of times the number grows really fast so it starts kind of slowly let's if I can multiply 3 a few times in my head that we have 3 and then I and then 27 and after that I'd have to think about it so when you make puff pastry you do that just 6 times and I think you get more than a 1000 layers just by doing that and not only do you get a 1000 layers but they're really really thin layers with butter in the tween them puffs up in the oven to me that shows how exponentials and the power of exponentials help us make something that's really amazing to eat and that you wouldn't be able to make without that mathematics because trying to roll out individual lairs of pastry that that thin would be impossible so I'm sure there'll be some math purists listening and thinking that that should be interesting enough as it is without resorting to party tricks and top hats to access it what would you say to them good for you. Yeah. I think if you can get by without those things then good for you exactly yeah but I have no one else I'm really sorry when people have that sort of attitude because I wonder how much of that is a certain snobbery and a certain I earned displays in the world because I am also met Matt and I can do the things that you lot cannot do and I think that's really horrible attitude to have I think underlying it too. Is snow the matter itself or there's something else you know or a view of education we are not really catering for other ways of learning and I suppose that's what's keeps this system going is that people that have succeeded it have that way of learning and therefore cannot even feel how it is sight to be so much someone else yes people who succeed because of a certain system of course they want to keep the system that way but fortunately some of us like Sar and me I hope despite the fact that we succeeded in that system we want to help other people who are not being served well by that system and it sounds like Sar and I have both gone slightly outside the system figures by the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development o.e.c.d. Show a gender gap in maps at school level most countries around the world did either of you ever think you'd be less good at math because you were Woman No never never I think I credit my parents largely for this because my parents have somewhat gender reversed roles my mother is a statistician who commute to work in the city a long time ago she was a woman with a briefcase on the train with the men in suits and I thought that was normal my father was a child psychiatry and so he worked locally when he was home or he was more likely to do the grocery shopping and cook us dinner and of course being a doctor he looked after us when we were ill and I also only had a sister no brothers so I never thought that there was anything I couldn't do just because I was a woman then I did go to a girls' school and I think that really helped because it meant that my whole education was completely free from gender stereotypes and it was only when I got to university when I was an undergraduate at the University of Cambridge I think it was one in 11 in 10 were girls and the rest were boys and it was the 1st time I really noticed it and I knew that if I was less good than someone it was just because of my brain and it wasn't because I was a woman but I did start feeling like I had some. Make sure nobody had a chance to judge me because I didn't want anyone to be able to say that I was less good because I was a woman and I know that not everybody grows up with such certainty about those things which is why I've decided to talk about it and be a role model for people if they need one if anyone needs to be convinced I would like to help that son I never thought that math wasn't for me because of my gender and math and other pure sciences in Portugal didn't seem to have the biased that I see here the u.k. Think the number of girls and boys doing those sciences and math are is similar but it's about even now in the u.k. And something that you said Eugenia about your family situation I read an article the other day that the single most powerful indicator of whether a girl felt she could do whatever she wanted in life was not what her mother or what women did was what kind of housework the dad to did that's amazing it's what the girl would see dad doing at home and the balance between the roles a home that is more dictating of what the girl felt was available to her good and even more reason for me not to do any housework. But you genius and so did I have you watch the film called Hidden think is is about you know you haven't seen it was about 3 black female math whizzes working on the u.s. Space program in the 1960 s. And I'm just wondering what role popular culture can play in helping with math p.r. Essentially all we can measure is morally wrong if you draw unfortunate played a really negative role in the past I think that so many mathematicians in the popular media have been portrayed as strange probably white men who are slightly odd don't really mix in society don't really have friends working a quarter by themselves maybe go insane. And that's it makes a good story but it's not very realistic and it's not at all helpful so I'm really glad that a new way of presenting mathematics has come up and I hope that that will continue if we remove the word matching what you said and talking about the strange men and kind of eccentric and so on that also apply to how musicians or other artists sometimes I trade in some films but that doesn't seem to put people off or that it really interesting I wonder if it's because music is something that is inherently more approachable because almost everyone listens to music and you know whereas people don't interact with math that much outside of what they have they've done in the classroom so your research mathematics seems like something that's very removed from most people's lives you were a musician as well aren't you yes and I was just curious if you think there is still a bridge between math and music that was important to you as wonder if you why do you feel a bridge between them it wasn't explicitly important to me when I was young the thing that was important to be about music was it was something that I could do unfettered and it was something where I could express myself and so that is what really attracted me to it at the beginning now I realise that the structures inside the music are something that are very appealing to me and when I think about what music I like I realise that it's not tunes that I like it's really harmony that touches me the most and harmony is about the structure and the into relationships between notes that are being played at the same time as opposed to notes that are being played in sequence and in a way I think that is a little bit mathematical because Harmony is a bit like the grammar of how music is constructed so for me it's about that it's not about how nothing beats in a bar it's about how things fit together which is. Is what I see as being the mathematics inside all aspects of life Cern you genius thank you both very very much thank you thank you we've been talking about why math is with 2 women whose mission is to get people to love mathematics up to Eugenia Cheng teaches complex math to students at the School of the Art Institute of Chicago and Sarah Santos spars tricks from street theater to give people a positive experience with math She also lectures at Goldsmith University of London you're listening to the b.b.c. World news on k. Or c c 2 Southern Colorado's n.p.r. Station Kera c.c. Broadcasts on $91.00 f.m. From our studios in Colorado Springs Colorado you can also hear cares you see in the following communities 88.5 f.m. In West Cliff and Gardner 89 point one f.m. In La Hunter 89.9 f.m. In Lyman 90 point one f.m. In Manitou Springs 91.7 f.m. In Trinidad and Raton New Mexico 95.