And in half an hour on Science in action with Adam Hart religion and politics are both up this week we dissect the sometimes difficult relationship they have with a topic central to biology and to many a disagreement Yes we're finding out how faiths accommodate evolution we're also checking in with the Cassini mission to Saturn and turning our hand to some fishy forensics on air online and on mobile This is the b.b.c. World Service the world's radio station. Hello I'm Peter Hunt and welcome to the world this week the program that tells you how the world has changed in the past 7 days this was the week when the United States told Russia to drop its Syrian ally. Is back in a person that's truly an evil person this is an animal Russia's response yet it's possible to say that on the level of trust on a working level it's not improved but rather has deteriorated we examine the state of the relationship the week when a left wing firebrand came from nowhere to shake up the French presidential race he appears in one location at a rally and he gets a hologram of himself to appear at another location will also be looking at the prospects for a unified island after Breck's it and that the plight of Egypt's Coptic Christians they told me had owing stories about houses being set on fire Christians being beaten all that after this. Hello I'm Eileen McHugh with the b.b.c. News a suicide car bomb has been driven into a bus of Syrians being evacuated from a besieged town many people are reported to have been killed on the outskirts of Aleppo their body parts and blood strewn beside the shattered vehicles managers say more than 20 people died the convoy of buses was carrying residents and pro-government fighters from 2 Hsieh villages as part of a deal between the government and rebels the evacuees had been waiting because of a disagreement over the number of rebels allowed to leave to other times despite the attack the exchange has resumed Sebastian Usher has more some reports are saying the suicide bomber was driving a van supposedly carrying aid supplies now they were essentially sitting targets the people who were killed they've been waiting since Friday for the continuation of evacuation deal that started yesterday they were taken out of these 2 villages flew into flyer. And brought towards Aleppo where they were going to be passed through a government area and then we settled for now the South Korean defense ministry says the North has attempted to fire a missile but that the launch failed the Pentagon confirmed the test saying the ballistic missile blew up almost immediately the launch should go on North Korea's east coast comes a day after Pyongyang held a military parade to mark the anniversary of the birth of its founder at which seemingly new ballistic missiles were displayed the u.s. Vice president Mike Pence is flying to the South Korean capital Seoul where he's expected to discuss the best way to deal with North Korea's missile and nuclear programs. Tens of thousands of people across the United States have marched in more than 100 cities to demand that President Trump releases his tax returns something he has refused to do some protesters carried huge inflatable chickens suggesting the president was scared to release the data speaking at the protest in Washington the civil rights activist to me come out every So Mr Trump should bow to public demands to reveal his tax returns. There. Donna John the protests were time to go inside with the traditional April the 15th deadline for u.s. Citizens to file their tax returns thousands of demonstrators have returned to the streets of the hungry in capital Budapest to show their anger at the policies pursued by the nationalist Prime Minister Viktor Orban the marches began in protest as a new law that will close down the country's most prestigious university the demonstrators are now calling on Mr or ban to step down world news from the b.b.c. The Italian Coast Guard and other vessels have rescued more than 5000 people from un sea where the boats off the Libyan coast over the past 2 days officials said the fine spring weather had prompted an armada of boats packed with migrants to set off for Europe where they hope to find a better life Egypt's Coptic minority have celebrated mass on the eve of Easter amid tight security one week after bombs killed more than 40 people at 2 churches policemen and soldiers stood guard as worshippers pass through metal detectors at St George's and turn to and St Marks in Alexandria the church and Cathedral hit last Sunday. The radical Islamist party engineer has said democracy has failed and it was no time for the ideology to be buried at the annual cold rest of the his buttery a movement his leader. Said democracy no longer had any mass appeal and instead Sharia laws should be adopted within an Islamist caliphate the party is banned in several countries in the region the Mexican city of Toronto or Kern is hosting the finals of a 3000 year old ball game which is being revived in the country Willamette play was played across Central America before being burned by the Spanish conquistadores Americas editor counterspy at reports in many of the ancient ruins of Central America you can still see the giant ball courts with the sacred ball game known as slee in Mexico was played according to ancient texts it was seen as a struggle between light and darkness and provided the energy to keep humanity growing in modern times the game is played by teams of 7 players who knock a heavy solid rubber ball up and down a narrow pitch using their hips rather than their feet in ancient times loses were often sacrificed to the gods this year a knockout tournament has been preferred. Hello I'm Peter Hunt and welcome back to the world this week Donald Trump has offered a bleak assessment of the crucial relationship between the 2 nuclear powers America and Russia we examine if it is as the Us president maintained at an all time low the unpredictable French presidential campaign has just become even more unpredictable will the surge in support for the communist backed candidate fade away or will he continue to threaten the front runners is a unified Ireland now a more realistic prospect with Bracks it and the renewed talk of Scottish independence and the plight of Egypt's Coptic Christians what is being done to protect them and their faith in a country where they've lived for almost 2000 years but 1st on the campaign trail the talk was of removing the chill from the relationship and becoming friends again in power in the Oval Office Donald Trump is now offering a much bleaker assessment of the state of play between America and Russia right now we're not getting along with Russia at all we may be at an all time low in terms of relationship with Russia but we're going to see what happens Putin is the leader of Russia Russia is a strong country we're a very very strong country the problem from the u.s. President's point of view is Moscow support for Syria's President Assad a man Donald Trump called truly evil and an animal Mr Assad stands accused by the west of a chemical attack last week on his own citizens which left more than 80 people dead Mr Trump responded by ordering a missile attack on a Syrian Air Base Russia doesn't accept Syria was behind the chemical attack and Moscow vetoed a draft u.n. Security Council resolution condemning it like his American opposite number President Putin is downbeat when reviewing how these 2 nuclear powers are getting along and what. It's possible to say that on the level of trust. On a working level especially on the military level it's not improved the druther has deteriorated the relationship was discussed when President Putin met a man he once gave a Russian award to the former oil executive now American secretary of state Rex Tillerson. From the B.B.C.'s Russian Service told me how Moscow now views America was rather complicated question we see that their perception of current Trungpa trumps administration has been changing so back in January they were quite optimistic there was at the welcoming trance administration they were sending quite positive signals and now it seems quite extraordinary a lot has changed and now you know Russian rhetoric towards Washington is quite harsh Mr Putin has used to read a really strong language to condemn Yes actions in Syria he accused them of giving hand to terrorists in their rectally he said that you know they're on their undermining peace talks in Syria but what is interesting that this language contrast to the language used by Russian Foreign Ministry's So Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov was quite positive quite soft he said that there is a lot of hope out of expectation and that there is a strong basis for the dialogue which must continue and do you account for that difference. Well I think so the fresh spring a game why good good and bad policeman so on the one hand he rushes showing how eager it is to call parade how much they are in need of these dialogues on the other hand you know Mr Putin never steps back on the pressure and he's again showing that he's ready to put stakes even higher and to conduct negotiations from quite strong position Russia has invested a lot into Syrian operation not only material resources but also sort of emotional you know so Russia is suffering some casualties there and of course you know he needs to manage public opinion on that because next year he's facing presidential elections so this question is really really important for him if he wants to remain in power and also remain influential on the international arena the current problem from the American perspective is Russia President Putin's support of Asaad in the us and regime in Syria can you see a scenario where President Putin might give up his support for Assad while somehow trying to keep Syria as this crucial military ally as he sees it in the Middle East in theory yes it is possible and the Russian officials keep saying that they don't stick to Mistah So then they are ready to see peaceful change of power in Syria at the same time of course it's very important it's crucial for Mr Putin to remain inflamed show in this region because historically Syria has been very important 1st for the Soviet Union and then to Russia because most of the region is dominated by the u.s. Influence and Syria was sort of a Russian door to the region and currently Russia has 2 military bases in Syria so if the United States or for them a solution which is acceptable point in May. Reviews his support of Mr Asad but I guess if they continue to implement pressure they strategy won't be successful because Mr Putin just personally is such a man who never surrender never steps back on the pressure does he continue to enjoy the support of the Russian people for what he's doing in Syria. Well broadly yes if we trust the polls and also it has a lot to do with the way their wars for traded by Russian state media they keep underlining that this is not you know war. Against the Syrian opposition they're not just simply supporting Mr Asad they're fighting terrorists they keep underlining it they're fighting terrorists in Syria in order to prevent these terrorists coming to Russia and if the relationship were to improve in the coming weeks and months top of the list in terms of what President Putin would want the West to do is to remove the sanctions you made a reference to the impact the negative impact they're having on the Russian people yes many experts say that you know this was one of the primary goals when Mr Putin was starting his operation in Syria he wanted to link Syrian crisis his participation in Syria with some other burning issues on the international arena and yet he would be eager to lift the sanctions because some of his close allies are suffering and Russian economy overall is suffering ordinary people are struggling and this means that you know support for this is May go down not abruptly but still so slowly may go down and he may lose some of the credit he has at the moment several times recently u.s. Politicians British politicians have referred to blood Amir Putin as isolated and they've talked about him being on the wrong side of the argument does not sort of thing ever bother him or well hard to say no we don't know what was going on in fortunes mind well at least Russian diplomats say that they are building that if alliances but many Russian officials keep referring back to words which were said by one of the Russian Cyrus one of the Russian emperors who said Russia doesn't have other friends except for its Navy and its army if she knows he's a political showman an orator and he was a distant new hope but in. Battle for the French presidency there's been a late surge in support for Shawn backed by France's communists the founder of the Left Party believes the means of production trade and consumption must be changed at a rally of supporters a mass a misdemeanor attacked with his opponents had to offer she told the rafters or ever so many people are gathered here today it's because they know how serious the moment is for the country caught between the far right who are calling for an ethnic nation. And the pit Chinese want to destroy the state and the public services are. His rise has made an already difficult to predict election even more so than with the 1st round of voting taking place on April the 23rd the front runners remain the centrist Emanuel and the far right leader Marine Le Pen our Paris correspondent Lucy Williamson told me what motivates male he's something of a lively character he seems a little bit of a firebrand he's quite far left and he's backed by the Communists he seemed to be a fan of people like Chavez and Fidel Castro we've had a couple of presidential debates here over the past few weeks and he seemed to have done really well in those debates and his support has surged he's made a lot of good use of things like the Internet social media he's done this thing with holograms where he appears in one location at a rally and he gets a hologram of himself to appear at another location so he's been very creative in the way he's going to about things and I think he represents the kind of lively force for change that some people here in France said they're looking for and he's indisputably on the left his name in one of his policies is a 100 percent tax on the very rich he's very much anti austerity he wants a big stimulus package as you say he's tough on taxes wants to raise. Lower the retirement age renegotiate treaties extract France from its free trade agreements yet he's very far left and he's never to be benefiting is any from the collapse of the Socialists I mean they've supplied French presidents I read somewhere you know half of the past 36 years but they're canned that the moment is really sort of nosediving isn't Yeah the history of France the political history of France more recently has been a kind of tit for tat between the center right party coming the Republicans and the Socialists and I think that is in some ways what we're seeing here in France is a little bit of weariness in the electorate about that the reason that Melbourne Show has risen 6 points in the last few days is because he's stolen votes from then more and more in the Socialist candidate he's been dropping like a stone recently so in one way that does tell you a lot about where those socialist votes are going at the moment on the other hand some say that could provide a natural ceiling for John because whether he can expand the vote outside that core left support is quite another question because if it is a ceiling that means what we're talking about is a blip and he may not necessarily make it through beyond the 1st round of voting even though some are predicting he possibly could I think for him to make it through the 1st round of voting he is going to have to draw support from elsewhere and that's going to mean taking votes from people like Emanuel McCraw who is also doing very well with young people people who want change but it's a very different kind of change he's proposing much more liberal very pro e.u. So familiar shown to steal votes from him is going to be quite difficult McCrone is one of the key beneficiaries in that thing you highlighted this sort of disillusionment with politics as usual and sort of the swapping between the the center right and the socialist for this position yes I think what we're seeing in France is in some ways what we've seen elsewhere which is a desire for change a sense that Francis place in a changing world is becoming more uncertain that the old parties perhaps don't have the right solutions or haven't. Unable to fix problems like the economy and issues about migration and so people are looking elsewhere and Emanuel McCraw has done extremely well in writing that way he's come in saying he's going to do politics a different kind of way but he's also benefited from the fact that the 2 main established parties the Republicans and the socialists have shot themselves in the foot in some ways the socialists have been in power for the last 5 years and they're deeply deeply unpopular the center right party has been battling a financial scandal around Francois feel and that really brought him down so I think Micron has been able to slip through the middle of that own the center ground and that's what's got him where he is now we should get some clarity should we on April 23rd at the end of the 1st round of voting when the field is reduced in all likelihood are we safe to assume that one of the 2 who will get through will be Marine Le Pen from the anti immigrant and the e.u. National Front we've said all along in this election but nothing is certain and the rise of John Mellor Sean has underlined that because what you've got now is not just a race between the 3 top players but a race between for potentially and that means that all of them are hovering either side of the 20 percent mark and that's within the margin of error for it to go you know either way for any of them Marina pen is expected to get through to the 2nd round but it's not impossible that she could be knocked out and we could see John melon Sean Orfeo on all macron take up place and I assume that no matter how much money I offer you you're not going to predict the outcome. You're exactly right ask me again in a couple of weeks Lucy Williamson in Paris you're listening to the wall this week the program that tells you what happened in the past 7 days and white counts coming up Eastoe will be a subdued affair for Egypt's Coptic Christians as they mourn the worshipers murdered by so-called Islamic State and if you want to listen to us again or previous editions type. B.b.c. The world this week into your search engine just how united is the United Kingdom the vote in favor of the country's departure from the European Union has provoked renewed calls for Scottish independence and what does the future hold for Northern Ireland where the majority of those who took part in the referendum also wanted to stay in the e.u. Of more pressing concern for Northern Ireland at the moment is the failure after a recent election to form an executive to run much of its affairs there is as yet no restoration of power sharing between those who want to maintain the link with the British crown the Democratic Unionist and Shin Fein who are seeking a united land on the island of Ireland the u.k. Government has said if no agreement is reached by next month they could be another election or return to the province being governed from London. On Northern Ireland political editor Mark Davenport has been considering the impact bricks it may have on the prospect of a unified Island a few weeks ago I found myself surrounded by a group of tourists from Shanghai visiting Northern Ireland's impressive assembly building as they posed for selfies the Chinese site says attention was attracted by a group of politicians who is it one asked me the man No I explained the bearded man was Gerry Adams the leader of a political party called Shem Fane my brief answer was translated into Cantonese and the excited visitors crowded closer to the celebrity and his own to Raj their camera phones at the ready these days Gerry Adams leads a double life he spends a lot of his time in his native Belfast spelling out his Arash nationalist parties red lines all preconditions before they'll consider sharing power once again with the pro British Democratic Unionists but mostly he's based 100 miles south in Dublin where his ship of Fame party is the 3rd largest group in the parliament during the 3 decades of Northern Ireland's conflict known as The Troubles Mr Adams was notorious for a rather different alleged double life that was the balancing act he performed between politics and in the view of British security chiefs sharing the leadership of the paramilitary Ira the ira ended its bloody campaign without achieving its aim of the British withdrawal and the creation of a united Ireland but if that was defeat of a sort that Mr Adams has been able to trade his past support for violence for real political power in March Gerry Adams Shem fame came close to toppling the Democratic Unionists as Northern Ireland's biggest party and pro British unionists lost their previous overall majority in the local assembly there were many reasons for shit. Serge but Gerry Adams thinks the U.K.'s decision to leave the European Union bolsters his long held view that Northern Ireland will be better off uniting with the Irish Republic to the south the architects of the peace process in the 1990 s. Took inspiration from the European Union as something which could integrate the island of Ireland a make the border matter less Now the British and Irish governments both insist there will be no return to the hard border of the troubles when motorists have to queue checkpoints and look outposts were erected on hilltops a return to such a hard front here would not only inconvenience thousands of cross border travellers and workers the fear is it also might provide a pretext for some faction to try to stir up violence a majority in Northern Ireland voted to stay in the European Union and in the wake of BRICs it nationalists like Gerry Adams have argued for what's known as a border poll this will be a referendum to decide if Northern Ireland should stay in the u.k. And leave the you or unite with the Irish Republic and automatically join the e.u. Europe adds an extra dimension to the long standing debate about Northern Ireland's future however others reckon a border poll is the last thing Northern Ireland needs and people should concentrate on resolving any practical problems breaks it will present. A border poll were it to happen would be a big challenge for our if nationalists an opinion poll taken last year suggested Breck's it hadn't shifted views significantly and a comfortable majority within Northern Ireland remains in favor of staying in the u.k. Any future referendum would not just involve the e.u. But concerns about ending the massive financial subsidy Northern Ireland gets from the u.k. And what might replace the British National Health Service one key group of swing voters may well be those Catholics who cherish their Irish or Northern Irish cultural identity but remain small you unionists in favor of the u.k. Status quo rather than gambling on a United Ireland yet bricks it the possibility of a new Scottish independence vote and champagnes surge in popularity all show nothing can be taken for granted Mark Davenport reflecting on Northern Ireland's future the most important festival in the Christian calendar Easter will be marked in a muted fashion in Egypt this year last weekend on Palm Sunday 45 Coptic Christian worshippers were murdered the Islamic state group said it was behind the attacks on 2 churches this latest outbreak of violence comes ahead of a visit this month by Pope Francis the Egyptian authorities have responded to the deaths by imposing a 3 month state of emergency Coptic Christians make up 10 percent of the country's population they believe their church dates back to around 58 d. When the Apostle Mark is said to have visited Egypt. They have suffered persecution in the past and according to our correspondent Sally in the bill who's based in Cairo the Copts as they also call themselves continue to feel they are not protected properly there is a deep sense of anger disappointment frustration and fear I was talking to a couple of Christian activists over the past couple of days and they say that the picture is quite grim and they are pretty concerned about the message behind these latest attacks that Egyptian Christians are vulnerable and targeted whatever and whenever the government cannot protect them so their own was a target because in this case obviously we're talking about the Islamic state group but also Christians say don't they that they are the target otherwise of sort of sectarian attacks within the remote communities in Egypt and they are going to the Christians that when this happens those responsible are brought any sort of justice yet this is true and this is why some members of the Christian community criticize the security approach adopted by the government and on saying a state of emergency saying that what happened is just a culmination of what they call a culture of discrimination I've been to Southern Egypt where many of the Christian community members live they told me how doing stories about houses being set on fire Christians being beaten Ah by some of their Muslim neighbors and they said when we go and complain when we go to report to the police nobody does anything to help us so they just feel that everybody has failed them for example if we look at what's happening in the Sinai Peninsula which is under the state of emergency for the past 3 years or so this did not protect them because over the past couple of months dozens of Christian families fled the militants threat and I've seen them in other parts of Egypt I've talked to these families of fled and they just said we don't know if. We will ever go back we don't feel safe one lady told me that she didn't step out of her house for 3 years now the papers show Jute a visit by the end of the month the emphasis is meant to be on sort of interfaith dialogue but inevitably there be a significant focus not least on whether or not the Egyptian state can keep him and his visit secure that's the big question the Vatican said that they are not canceling or rescheduling the visit in light of what happened and actually the Egyptian government has been talking a lot about religious discourse and interfaith dialogue and on the other hand they are also talking about fighting terrorism and they are just giving broad terms and on the ground all what we see to materialize these theories or what they are talking about are just more security presence but if you're talking about interfaith dialogue and religious discourse people believe that the government needs to do more culturally and religiously Saleen a bill that's it from the world this week for now if you've got any thoughts on what we've done or what you'd like us to do please contact us at b.b.c. World service via Facebook or Twitter and don't forget to join us at the same time next week for a look back at what's happened in the next 7 days. Distribution of the b.b.c. World Service are supported by Lumosity brain training developed by scientists and game designers who turn cognitive research tasks into challenging games more and more at Lumosity dot com And by t.i.a.a. Whether it's investing advice banking for retirement t.i.a.a. Is committed to planning for your success more and more it t.-i a lot of work. You with the b.b.c. World Service on today's science in action we're catching up with the Cassini mission and finding out about Enceladus one of Saturn's many moons It's a strange place and I see active world that we learned this week is also spreading out hydrogen and that's getting people thinking about the possibility of life if you were a microorganism hydrogen would be like candy it's your favorite food where exploring the relationship between religion and evolution and from God to cold as we look at some fishy forensics that's after the latest news b.b.c. News with finding the Q The South Korean military says the North has attempted to fire a missile but has failed the launch comes a day after Pyongyang held a military parade to mark the anniversary of its founder where what appeared to be new ballistic missiles were displayed a suicide car bomb has been driven into a bus of Syrians being evacuated from a besieged town many people are reported to have been killed in the attack on the outskirts of Aleppo their body parts and blood strewn beside the shattered vehicles monitors say more than 20 people died government media gave a higher figure President Trump is coming under renewed public pressure to disclose his personal tax affairs thousands of people in dozens of cities are holding marches demanding he release his tax returns. Thousands of demonstrators have returned to the streets of the Hungary in capital Budapest to show their anger at the policies pursued by the nationalist Prime Minister Viktor Orban the marches began in protest at a new law that will close down the country's most prestigious university but have gathered momentum and the demonstrators are now calling on Mr or ban to step down human history has passed a milestone with the death of the last person there a fight to have been born in the 1900 century them around oh died at her home and verbally or north in Italy at the age of $117.00 she was born a month before the close of the 1800s Egypt's Coptic minority have celebrated mass on the eve of Easter amid tight security one week after bombs killed more than 40 people at 2 churches policemen and soldiers Stuttgart as worshippers pass through metal detectors at St George's in turn turn St Mark's in Xandra and the Mexican city of t.r. To work on is hosting the finals of a 3000 year old ball game which is being revived in the country. Was played across Central America before being banned by the Spanish conquistadores. Hello I'm Adam Hart Welcome to Science in action where this week we're tackling one of the hottest of all hot topics in science the tension or otherwise between evolution and religion we'll be exploring how 2 of the world's religions Christianity and Islam manage mostly to accommodate the facts of evolution now that we have seen that evolution and koran are compatible Now let's talk about the scientific view of evolution where also catching up with the Cassini mission to Saturn the orbiter has been gathering data from the icy moon in celibacy This week sees the publication of the discovery of hydrogen outgassing from that moon and the suggestion of conditions but sensually amenable for life that's all coming up but 1st we're focusing on life here on Earth identifying what species live in an area can be very difficult e.d.n. a That he stands for Environmental is a technique where the presence of organisms can be detected by analyzing d.n.a. Shed into the environment a paper out this week in The Journal plus one reveals how each d.n.a. Found in New York's East and Hudson Rivers can be used to reveal who's in the neighborhood Here's author Dr Mark Stoeckle from the Rockefeller University in New York to tell us more you d.n.a. Stands for environmental meaning d.n.a. You find floating around a 1000000 Vironment in water and soil and they are so not part of an organism and we talking about sloughed off skin cells x. Feces that sort of thing I mean how does that d.n.a. Get from a organism into the environment. Absolutely I think both of those ways I think of it as dandruff essentially little bits of cells that are shared from an organism it could also be from feces there are cells in urine so all of those ways we give off a cloud of d.n.a. As we move through our environment so just as we see in forensics programs and things like c.s.i. The idea of every contact leaves a trace and we're all leaving little bits of d.n.a. Around that can track us back it's also possible to use d.n.a. In the environment to find out something about the animals. The other organisms that are that is it yes this really is wildlife forensics using the techniques that we're all familiar with from television shows the little bits of d.n.a. We leave behind and this week sees the publication of a study that you've done on the d.n.a. Looking at fish What was it that you found we found that we could follow the arrival of fish into New York Harbor in the spring simply by taking a small volume of water and analyzing that for d.n.a. About a quart or a leader of water if we want to save a fish diversity in abundance we'd have to be using expensive time consuming nets damaging the environment damaging the fish you're saying that you can replace all of that by basically taking am not much more than a cup full of water out of the river yes I think will we will continue to use nets is kind of a baseline a ground truth thing but we're going to get a much much more detailed picture of we're in a ML's are in the environment by doing water sampling one of the things in ecological something Gemini is when you use a different technique you often send awful going is that you didn't know with that camera chatting being a fantastic example actually often revealing in some cases new species of mammals where their fish found in this study which hadn't been recorded before I'd like to tell you there were say what we found fits with knowledge of what's in the harbor the harbor has been very intensively studied for 30 years so we really have very good knowledge of the fish that are there we did find some fish that I had never heard of like the oyster toadfish but a very ugly fish but it is a known resident. I'm actually involved in any d.n.a. Project myself from looking inside the feces of various different animals in Africa looking for different types of parasite and it's just collecting material and I'm running it 3 you're looking at it in fresh in so it will spawn a people who are looking for a d.n.a. For all sorts of different species in fresh will say it is the technique which is a place people in all sorts of different ecosystems could we get into the rainforest and start swapping the ground and finding out what's there will all the limitations to what we can do I think we're at the beginning not not day one but sort of day. 3 or 4 of using d.n.a. And understanding really how much we can learn from it absolutely you could go to the rain forest you could swap the ground but it actually turns out the best ways to go to the stream and the stream has a nice sampling of any land animals that live in the watershed you pick up their d.n.a. In the in the stream I have to say someone the enjoys being out in the failed I hope a d.n.a. Taken extend completely replace old fashioned field biology because there is something very nice about seeing the actual animal rather than just its d.n.a. Signature I'm a naturalist myself I love or kinds of animals and plants and I actually see this as a way of getting more people involved in the science because it's quite easy to collect water everyone's interested in their own environment the shoreline the pond where they live and I think it's going to help citizen scientists learn more about their environment in a sense this is a way for everyone to be going out and monitoring them environment likely it's really nice Yes So what are you doing next we're very interested in working in New York City we like the fact that there's wildlife in New York City we don't have to go to the rainforest and there's actually a lot here we're trying to focus now on looking for larger animals particularly whales dolphins and sharks we did find. Dolphin d.n.a. In one of her East River samples and we find it quite regularly a little bit south of the city in New Jersey and sharks are a group that are under studied and underappreciated and we want to see of what's we can detect we're going to go out to the beaches where people swim in New York and collect water sounds fantastic sharks and dolphins in New York President and from working out what species are around using a d.n.a. To looking for signatures of life any life out in space the Cassini mission to Saturn is nearing its end and this week sees its discovery of hydrogen coming from the surface of the moon in celibacy with me to unpick that finding is b.b.c. Science correspondent Jonathan Amos John Sutton has more than 60 means that seems like a lot there are huge numbers and Cassini has found quite a few more in his mission which has been going on now for more than 10 years the standout discovery of the Cassini mission is this little moon 500 kilometers wide and solid as is is white as white can be it's one of the brightest objects in the Solar System one of the reasons is because as Cassini is shown us it is spurting water from its south pole and this is them falling back as snow if you like to life crystals back on to the surface keeps this beautiful color that it has and looking at that surface it's all cracked and textured it looks tectonic it looks like a very complex place to somewhere so small it is and you know we've established now through the Cassini measurements that there is a a deep body of water a global ocean of water liquid water that's being kept in that state by the fact that Saturn is able to squeeze gravitationally Enceladus backwards and forwards it keeps it in that fashion and liquid water of course is always exciting to us a little and it's not just it's not just the water that squirting out interesting substances in there as well there are salts there's silica which tells us this water is in contact with rock that's got the scientists thinking about you know could you have can. Similar to what you have on Earth oceans if you go to the middle of the Atlantic you'll find volcanic vents that that are able to sustain communities of microbes by producing just the right chemistry that they can can dine and what we've had this week is the announcement that Cassini has found hydrogen in these plumes and hydrogen is one of those products that if it's being produced by chemical reactions at the base at the seabed you could sustain microbes we've been speaking to the astrobiologist at NASA Chris McIsaac Well hygiene is particularly interesting because if you were a microorganism hydrogen would be like candy it's your favorite food it really is it's very good energetically it can support microorganisms in grand style so finding hydrogen is certainly a big plus icing on the cake for the habitability argument and really tasty icing indeed for microbes microorganisms it's hard to emphasize how important and how useful hydrogen is to microorganisms John we're hearing now the importance of hydrogen put there are other factors that are important in life how accommodating is this particular Moon Well you know it's got the liquid water it's it's got the sort of nutrients minerals that that you would want of course this doesn't mean life is that all it means is that the conditions a favorable and what sort of life forms to christen other people think might be that well these are what they call them a 1000 adjourns these are microbes that can make you solve stuff like hydrogen to then power the systems to do the sort of metabolism that they need to do and you would hope then you would get higher life forms that would live on that so if you go to the mid ocean ridge in the in the Atlantic you them find the shrimps and the crabs and and those other kinds of things you know maybe maybe they're all upstairs I don't know on inside of this but yet. This is kind of where we're heading and I guess it's quite nice really we have this model we have these deep 100 thermal vents here on Earth that provide similar sorts of conditions do you think that when we look through the solar system and perhaps in other solar systems that's going to be the basis of life that we find it could be the thing we have to do 1st of all is established if there is life and sold us and that's really important for one basic reason if we go to Mars and establish there's life it's a possibility it's contamination from Earth we going to win salad us and establish there is life the chances that that is contamination from Earth is minimal it's tiny and that means it would be a 2nd genesis and if there is a 2nd genesis in our own solar system that means life must be pretty abundant elsewhere in the universe it certainly does thanks John now us a biology professor in the u.k. I take it for granted that I'll be teaching evolution students arrive having covered the basics of natural selection an evolutionary change at school the lack of a designer in the process the non-directed nature of evolution and its fundamental relationship to how we understand life are all generally established by the time we get to tackle the nuts and bolts but in many places evolution and its relationship with religion remains controversial this week we're exploring that relationship now with more than 4000 recognized religions we can't cover them all but we can certainly make a start we sent science and actions Rolen peace to Boston to talk with Ph d. Student Liz Barnes and Professor Sarah Brown and from Arizona State University they've been looking at how evolution is taught to people with Christian beliefs even in 1st year majors biology courses study has shown that 50 percent of the students are rejecting evolution so what we're really interested in is this disconnect between students that that come into our biology classes with religious beliefs often in the context we're looking at at Arizona State Those are usually Christian beliefs and then the folks teaching them tended not have religious beliefs so biologists evolutionary biologists in particular they don't tend to. Religious belief so we have this cultural divide between students that have religious cultures and biology faculty teaching biology at the college level that basically have secular beliefs the interesting thing is that they have chosen by only saying so you know then it doesn't sound like they're rejecting science and hope so we have an interview study that actually speaks to this specifically so we interviewed the experiences of religious students specifically Christian Jewish students in biology classes and asked them those very questions do you want to talk about that Yes So 1st oftentimes our biology majors of the vast majority of them are coming in as pre-med so they want to be doctors which has a little bit different of an identity profile than somebody coming in wanting to be a research biologist right and in our interviews what we found in are these religious students the ones that are going to pre-med will say things like well I'm going to be a doctor and actually I don't need to accept evolution or know anything about evolution to be an effective physician right so what ends up happening is they take evolution because after evolutions a required course but then they say things like I'm just learning it for the grade and I try to learn it and I try to forget it as quickly as possible right because we've set up this dichotomy where it's either you can accept evolution and not be religious or you can be religious and reject evolution right and so what we're trying to do is bridge that gap so at least you've been doing it over 3 years that the groundwork is absent on this research so the point is there is a different way of instructing in evolution so that those who have resisted are more likely to come along with you Yeah absolutely so our students what we find in our studies is that a lot of our students come in with this misconception that there's only one of 2 views like Sarah said you're either accepting evolution and you are an atheist or you're religious and you reject evolution but the fact of the matter is we have a wide range of positions in the middle of these 2 extremes right and we even have a lot of biologists and religious leaders who occupy this position of accepting evolution but still believing in God and that this is a position where students can reconcile about religious belief with evolution if we actually communicate that to. Students rather then the current practice which is to just not say anything at all about it and then we can help students to reconcile those 2 things because if we don't say anything students often just think that they're one of the other so this is science have you got evidence that changing the approach changes the response so what we've seen is in our studies that we reduce the number of students who perceive a conflict with religion evolution by 50 percent using our in shock right and when we look at the literature we see that just plain instruction on evolution doesn't usually change students' views on religion and evolution so we don't have a control group in our study but comparing it to the past literature we're seeing quite a large effect of our introduction I'm not quite sure what you mean by changing the way you view instructed if if it just comes down to giving a list of famous scientists like say Francis Collins they have you know well he believes in God so that's fine I mean does it just come down so that. I mean it's pretty simplistic at some level right and I think that as the instructor has to buy into it there can't be like there are these people that you know believe in God and also believe in evolution but I don't agree with them right and if so that kind of rhetoric is not going to be helpful but but yet it seems like it's very subtle small things that seem to make a big difference so in the study that we did where we interviewed religious students a lot of them talked about a conversation that an instructor had at the very beginning of starting an evolution model in her class about how there's different viewpoints and about how there are religious scientists role models and again it could be a conversation that could potentially be as short as 10 minutes and it seems to have a positive impact on students I mean I think a lot of people listening to this will be saying hang on you compromising on the science and you sort of engaging with creationism or intelligent design no no we're not not to give credibility to creationism we know based on science that's incorrect right so it's not give me an alternative set of you. It's in the classroom we're actually trying to say that instead there is no 2 sides it's actually this middle ground how does it help your instructors engage with this I mean I could just imagine huge numbers of biologists I know who would feel really uncomfortable go against evolution when I want to say oh by the way before I start anybody in here goes to church don't be frightened I mean it's just not their way of thinking Absolutely and that's actually the exact point that we're trying to make is that these instructors come in with this set of cultural beliefs and cultural norms that is being infused into their teaching but really what they should be thinking about are their students and what kind of cultures and religious backgrounds these students come from and what they need in order to be successful in learning biology there's a lot of aspects of teaching that are uncomfortable right and I think that instructors figure out ways to get over that right and I think that this is one area a lot of instructors have just kind of said Ok I don't have to deal with that and I think part of it is because our data suggests this that part of is because they they haven't had their own world view conflict between religion and evolution so they don't understand what those students are dealing with we actually have another study that hasn't actually been published yet we interviewed instructors at Christian universities and asked them how they teach evolution to their Christian students and they teach in remarkably different ways than the instructors at secular institutions they acknowledge different viewpoints they have more discussion they present often themselves as religious scientists role models and what's really interesting about that study is what we're finding is when we asked them why they do that they cite their own religious cultural backgrounds and beliefs as a motivator because they know what it's like to have to go through this perceived conflict right and they want to make it easier for their students than it was for them this approach of finding a middle ground is an interesting one but does it translate to other religions Well it turns out that's a question we can answer at least for Islam someone Hamid is associate professor at Hampshire College Massachusetts and visiting fellow at Dartmouth College he's been researching the reception of the. Evolution in Muslim communities I asked him how Islam and evolution get along but 1st as ever I learned that things are a bit more complex than that there are about a 1000000000 Muslims in the world and they're not a monolithic entity and that reflect in the way Muslims perceive evolution so if we were to go to predominately Muslim country and look at say a school textbook what sort of story would we see in there would we see the classic scientific accepted almost dogmatic kind of viewpoint on evolution or do we see something different being developed so if we just talk about the way it is included in textbooks Perhaps that is one way of thinking about the diversity in bodies than it is included in textbooks but with a queer Army verse as a starting point and so in some ways it gives it gives the cover of religion as if to say but then it says that evolution doesn't clash with religion and then it goes on and presents evolution as a fact of science so once you've been able to square off if you like the Qur'anic interpretation of how these things work once that's out of the way it's kind of like evolution is find Let's go for it that's exactly right and there is there is another province where the textbook in Pakistan they actually spend a couple of pages on looking at the Koranic interpretation of evolution this separate towards the end they explicitly say now that we have seen that evolution and koran are compatible Now let's talk about the scientific view of evolution remarkably similar then so what we heard from the United States with Christian students finding that middle ground between religious beliefs and scientific evidence but as we heard from the start the Muslim world is diverse and that diversity is reflected in the ways that this accommodation can or can't be made in Malaysia in the same way it is included in biology textbooks but religion is not mentioned in. The context in Iran it is also included in textbooks that has wonderful examples of transitional fossils including Archaeopteryx and religion is not really mentioned but then there are other cases one extreme case for example in Saudi Arabia where textbooks go out and explicitly reject evolution and the present Darwin as a Western figure who rejected God and other things that we know are not necessarily true but certainly they go out and take extra steps to reject evolution and it's interesting that you say that so they're rejecting evolution not necessarily from Quranic sort of chronic scholarship sort of way of looking at it but more from the fact that it's seen as a Western and Western thought right and that I think it's a key component of how evolution gets framed in discussions in Turkey it has been a political topic between the secularists and the Islamist So for example in Turkey that evolution has been coming in and out of textbooks for the last 30 years depending upon the government that is there and depending upon who is writing the textbooks so in many places it's not as simple as religion and science politics also plays a crucial role to discuss this further science and actions role and pieces but from Boston Rowland is this something we've come across in other religions Well I mean it certainly is the case with Christianity I found so interesting was the message of the soundman was delivering was very similar to this one the pressure for things like creationism or so-called intelligent design which is trying to find some halfway house crashes into Point north is that's right it's very linked up to politics it is about identity I think and that was what I found so interesting about Sarah and Liz when I was talking to them was that they think you just embrace people and it makes a difference to what they learn and you know my background is in physics and chemistry and if there is a God and God. Who says a certain kind of chemistry in a certain kind of physics for the clockwork of the universe doesn't make much difference but if you go to the softer sciences like biology I mean you're a biologist you teach biology so that you know that is how different do you think that is yes I teach evolution and evolution in all its guises and forms and yet the notion of standing up in front of a bunch you know classroom and sort of having a series of caveats in a series of sort of statements about people's beliefs and things it is completely alien but I guess I've teaching in a country where those sorts of pressures don't really exist what is interesting though is that when those pressures do exist as we've heard there's this sort of jewellers and there's this ability to be able to have these 2 seemingly conflicting narratives running at the same time I mean I think that's really really interesting absolutely there are scientists like Francis Collins you know discovered the cystic fibrosis gene led the human genome project but is very devout Christian and seems to it always seems to me that he's able somehow to have these 2 magisteria which is a concept I don't really like sitting side by side sort of parks one of them in favor of the other at some point or other I've never managed to talk to him about it yes it's interesting is it the same as the sort of journalism that we see in people's lives all the time most people for example know that smoking is extremely harmful to them and yet many people continue to smoke is it similar to that sort of journalism you think will well I suppose you know that smoking is bad for you so there you just going against your own conscience but another way you know there's this dualism people find quantum mechanics and that's a subject I'm familiar with heart but it makes them want to learn it and I suppose that's the interesting question isn't it with evolution the people who say it's hard may not actually want to engage with it rather you know don't look for the problems rather than thinking this is fantastic and I want to look deeper I suppose it's partly down to the fact that quantum mechanics doesn't offend people whereas you get the impression that the concept of evolution is deeply offensive actually to some people who hold certain religious beliefs pretty Einstein So I think he was . This dualism this ability to be able to hold 2 seemingly conflicting things in your head at the same time and make both of them right at some point or another is something I find really fascinating and it's something that I explored a bit further with some of the mid in some ways you might think that these 2 things are completely separate but what they are doing are applying 2 different epos Tamala G.'s to the same question so they are looking at evolution and have 2 different ways of evaluating it and it exists in their mind I don't think it is cognitive dissonance I think they have just figured out a way of how to keep their 2 words separated by space one of my favorite examples regarding that is our student body standing University at an elite bar is that a university said well I accept evolution when I'm in the hospital but I reject it when I go home and I think that poses more of a problem actually to people who are very entrenched if you like an evolutionary thought which I guess I would count myself in that seems to be a problem because I think we find it difficult to reconcile how you could have that Judaism going on but actually for the people to do it doesn't seem to be a problem it almost feels as if this religion evolution divide is wholly artificial Actually that's I think it's a really important point do you think for most people I guess within the scientific world particularly over the last 10 or 15 years we've got very into this sort of almost conflict between religion and science and it's been built up in lots of people have sold a lot of books I've written made careers over it but do you think for most people outside of that sphere it's actually not that important to people. I think we are making more off evolution then it in reality it probably is once evolution becomes a political identity marker then it's a different story we've got used to viewing the religion science divide through the lens of evolution but as we've heard not only is the religious world complex it's also more accommodating the many might think people are able to juggle their personal faith with an understanding of an even acceptance of the science of evolution in fact for many people the seemingly difficult conflict of science and religion and the thorny issue of evolution really isn't that difficult at all now I freely admit I'm an atheist and like many I have a problem reconciling religious beliefs with my view of the world but most of our similar famously whole conflicting views on all sorts of topics and we're still able to find a way through I can't suddenly decide to believe in something but maybe I can believe in a little less ranting at dinner parties in future well that's it for science and action which was produced by Louisa field more from us at b.b.c. 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