Transcripts For KRCB To The Contrary With Bonnie Erbe 20130713

Behind the headlines home grown Human Trafficking. Hello, im bonnie erbe. Welcome to to the contrary, a discussion of news and social trends from diverse perspectives. Up first, healthcare reform split. The Obamacare Free Birth Control mandate got an unlikely ally this week. The Catholic Health association or cha now says its okay with the administrations latest compromise. Obamacare mandates all insurance should cover contraceptives free of charge. But members of the catholic hierarchy objected and catholic owners of faithbased nonprofits filed lawsuits saying that mandate violates their free exercise religious rights. The cha represents hospitals that treat one in six american patients. The latest administration compromise puts insurance providers, not catholic hospitals or faithbased nonprofits, in direct touch with employees to provide free Birth Control. It takes the protesting hospitals and nonprofits out of the loop and does not use any of their funds to provide the disputed coverage. While the cha says this compromise does not violate the hospitals religious liberties, the us conference of bishops is still staunchly opposed. The bishops say the regulations prove the Obama Administration is hostile toward religious freedom. Churches, synagogues and mosques are exempt. So, is this latest compromise still a violation of free exer sees rights under r under the constitution. Absolutely not. This is a matter of separation of church and state. I do think it is coercive to have individuals and companies have to pay for something that they dont want to pay for. The catholic hospitals have to provide services or pay for the services their rights to religion expression is violated. Still definitely a problem. Its assuming that contraception is the number one concern for all women. Wait a second. First, i want to get first to the constitution and meaning of the free exercise clause. Im a little confused because its clearly churches within churches and society in general have a right to exercise their religion the way they see feet. Does that do you think framers meant to extend that to businesses, the churches in the form of hospitals or other nonprofit. Why not their supply chain. Obviously this is something that the founders could not have envisioned whatsoever. Theyre looking, think back to 1750 they were trying to escape from king george who was not allowing them to practice their religion period. I think this is very different. Again, i think the fact that catholic organizations get so many breaks from the governments, this has gotten so muddled over the years that its not exactly this clean cut. But you said earlier that you think youre opposed to the idea forcing them to offer something they dont want to offer on the basis of their religion. I think it is coercive to have an individual or company or organization or anyone have to pay for a product or service that they dont support or believe in. Just taking a step back but the Obama Administration did pull back and say, compromise the first time, compromised a couple of times now. Saying that these organizations did not have to pay for it, it was all the Insurance Companies have to pay for it. Exactly. The Insurance Companies are paying for it, nothing is free. Where is this money coming from. Its coming from money is fungible. People will pay more money elsewhere having this work out. To me its very blurry. Its blurry because what are the bishops after this. Is the problem. We have a Health Care Law that allows mandates Certain Services are provided including contraceptives and they dont want to comply with that law. And i think the reason there is Obama Administration trying to reach all sorts of compromises i think as lawyer they should not because they are political compromises its not enough for the bishop. The thing is if you were to pole the catholic people, its very clear that there is no great unanimity among catholics banning contraceptives, i think what happened is catholics have gone along with the bishops, been in lock step now that this compromise has been presented that the Hospital Association has accepted, this is a breaking of the ranks i think there will be a cascade of finding this. There is always unintended consequences. I think that this mandate, something thats overlooked you start providing or heavily subsidizing all contraception it means that were going to skew the marketplace. Suddenly things like the procedure to place iud is going to be covered pushing all sorts of other manufacturers out of the business and most importantly going to push condoms out of the marketplace which is only thing that is actually going to protect against stds that is not talked about when we talk about contraception its very important point to make. I have to say, the thing about this debate i thought train had left the station. Were not talking about a new technology or something that is mystery that could have unintended consequences that you mention. Basic services. Is it true that contraceptives, condoms are not considered contraceptives are not covered by the Insurance Plan . I tnk over the counter contraceptions and lets be honest women are going to take more responsibility this is why the male contraceptives have not been adapted i am curious here. You are worried about when this law takes effect that more women will use contraceptives and fewer condoms and there for be exposed to thats an argument i havent heard yet. More and more people will say im on Birth Control or i have an iud forget that, guess what, that doesnt protect against stds. What does that have to do with free exercise. What were talking about what might happen in this marketplace. Everyone is assuming that mandating free contraception is a good thing, all around good thing but there are unintended consequences we should consider. But getting back my main question, i havent heard your response to this, i would like to hear it, the free exercise clause talks about when i hear the church claiming that their free exer sees rights are being violated im stunned. Because it seems to me that nobody going in to the church saying you cant breach against abortion, you cant get politically involved which a lot of people have problems with. All theyre saying is that when you walk away, at least a couple of steps away from the process of running a church and running a religion youre now running businesses that you dont have to aside by federal law it violates your free exercise rights. I think shes correct that it gets very blurry. Any group that doesnt want to provide something whether i dont think this has to do with catholicism. Your free exercise of speech and religion weve gotten so confused here what this law means i dont think anyone at this table has unified view of exactly with is covered what is being mandated here. When we talk about the separation of church and state, we talk about these religion freedoms look whats happening in the world today. Look whats happening in egypt, look what is happening in turkey. These were societies where they expect to be living in a democracy and leaders decided that religious norms were going to be the law. That threatens the democracy, weve seen it in turkey and egypt. I think having this respect for an accommodation that makes that separation of church and state is good for democracy. Let us know what you think. Please follow me on twitter bonnieerbe. From Birth Control to sterilization. Nearly 150 female inmates in california were sterilized between 2006 and 2010. That according to the center for investigative reporting, which also reveals another 100 women prisoners in california were sterilized since the late 1990s. Former inmates recall medical staff pressuring pregnant women to undergo sterilization. But a doctor in charge of Ob Gyn Services at valley state prison told the center nobody was pressured. And in fact he said procedure was only recommended to women with multiple children and who had served multiple jail sentences. A licensed psychologist there told the center, some pregnant inmates, particularly those on drugs or who were homeless, would commit crimes so they could return to prison for Better Health care. The procedures cost some 150,000 over a decade. To Sabrina Schaeffer your thoughts on this . I was concerned when i first read the report that these women were genuinely coerced to having a medical procedure and sterilization is serious against their will. Im not quite sure thats exactly the case. If its the case that they were sort of given education and it was suggested to them this may be good Family Planning for their particular situation, then i suppose that they made a choice that fits for their purposes. Thats not the story. At least some of the samples of women they were in labor, they were in really difficult moments in their lives and the doctors repeating and repeating and repeating, you should do, this you should do this. They were advising women to have multiple c highway sections to do it because that was better for the health when the practice thats not recommended of sterilization in order to protect your health because you have csections if you have a fourth child you may die. They were at the line. But let me ask you this, because i think this story raises an interesting question which is, i guess everybody would agree that all americans have an unfettered right to have as many kids as they want no matter how incapable as parents. I would say somebody who lands in jail is not a capable parent. In many cases these women already had multiple children, four, five, six. Had been in recidivists in jail again and again and again. So do they have an unfettered right to keep decree kateing children that they cant properly take care of. Secondly do they have unfettered right for taxpayers to keep paying for the messes that they make in the form of these children who are not going to crow up to be happy people because their mothers are stealing cars and ending up in jail. Im going to take a step back. We have incarceration problem in this country. Looking at i pulled this information, there are eight times more women in jail now than there were in 1980. African american women are 0 of the jail population, only 13 of the population outside. Were putting people overkill namizing putting people in jail above and beyond keeping them there. Were setting these women up for a life of failure. I think that is one concern for me. Another concern for me is how can you make an informed decision when there are laws in california against having these questions brought up and raised. These women are in in labor, theyre shackled, under duress, there are safeguards in place. They use state money. State even says you have to have there were all these different laws and things, bodies were not notified, certainly these women were treated very, very badly. Even if they shouldnt be having children they deserve better than this. The california prison system in fact right now is in the midst of the prisoners are having a food strike on an issue thats related to health as well. Incarceration of this is male prisoners. But in solitary confinement for 25 years. Actually the backdrop here and context which i think is really important, bonnie, is that they have been under refer ship since 2006 this is failure of the receiver because they should have known that you have to go to a medical review board to have this procedure done, sterilization. The receiver must have seen that line item and they knew that they had heard nothing about the procedures being done. So i think more than anything this story is an indictment on whats happening in the california prison system. I am not surprised, im a native californian theres whole lot of mess there in all sorts of the state run systems from the workers comp situation to the prisons, to their health care, i think this is an example of where california needs to tighten the rains take a step back. Lets say its not just california problem i dont know if its going on in other areas getting back to my question, do you believe that whether prisoners or not prisoners people have a totally unlimited right to have as many kids as they want. Most people would agree to that. Do you agree do you also agree that they have unfettered right to go on all kinds of government assistance, to have these kids when they cant afford them to take care of them. Well, you know, i come from virginia. In virginia we have a shameful history of youve general i cans it was hen virginia in the 1920 that case was taken to the Supreme Court which result in a lot of laws throughout the country that would not only make sterilely shakes something you could do but something you must do if a person was mentally ill and i am basil or had epilepsy. Yes, the pendulum has to swing in either direction, i would much prefer to see it swing in the direction of human rights. All right. Behind the headlines Human Trafficking is a 32 billion per year industry. Around the globe, millions of young women and men are forced into prostitution and slave labor every year. But there are heroines working to combat the problem. Step one create more awareness. Many people thought that this is someone elses problem. Until they started to understand that often runaway children particularly little girls can easily be seduced and convinced that theyre going to be a model, are going to be a dancer and they end up not ever seeing the light of day again. Marilyn Carlson Nelson of the Global Travel and hospitality company, carlson companies, is a leader in the fight against Human Trafficking. So is Homeland Security secretary janet napolitano. Ending sex trafficking is part of her job, as is making the American Public more aware of Human Trafficking. Theres no community in the United States that is immune to this, it is an international plague, its a plague within the United States. In april, police took down a major trafficking ring in Carlson Nelsons home state of minnesota. The twin cities is one of the unites states largest centers for child prostitution. A 2010 study found on any given night, 45 girls are sold for sex. The rate has begun to decline, due in part to projects like the Womens Foundations minnesota girls are not for sale. Carlson nelson first learned of the enormity of Human Trafficking from queen silvia of sweden the queen spoke to me about traveling tourism and the fact that sometimes these kinds of Sexual Exploitation take place in hotels, motels and travel. It sounded serious, it was a dark issue, it began to creep into my consciousness. Carlson nelson became the First American ceo to sign an international agreement, ecpat the acronym for end child prostitution and trafficking. By signing, a Company Agrees to a code of conduct that includes educating staff, suppliers and customers about Sexual Exploitation. I came back and spoke to my company and you can imagine the first thing people said is, marilyn, were in the happiness business this is the kind of dark subject almost taboo to talk about, using children in this way. Its probably one of the most heinous crimes there is in the world. She then convinced other Corporate Leaders from Hilton Hotels and delta airlines, among others to get on board. Heifer day we go about our lives for its Part Department of Homeland Security recently relaunched the blue campaign, a comprehensive antitrafficking project that includes training. We work with airlines carriers, delta for example to train employees on how to spot some of the signs of Human Trafficking. Were doing that throughout the transportation industry, the hospitality industry, and others trying to increase the publics awareness of this problem. We train more law enforce. Ofment around the country. All of that helps us i think make a real dent in trafficking. But napolitano says reintegrating minor girls who escape sex trafficking back into society is not easy. Theyve gone through a very damaging experience and so one of the things were doing is connecting with all of the Great Service organizations throughout the country who want to provide assistance to these victims. In minnesota the Womens Foundation helped pass the 2011 safe harbor law recognizing child prostitutes as victims of abuse granting them immunity from prosecution. Their soul has been ripped in a way that their own sense of value has really disappeared. Despite the nature of the crime, the departments had quite a few success stories. We have one case involving a person who noticed there was a teenage girl in the house next door who never seemed to go to school, who never seemed to leave and reported it. We investigated through immigration and Customs Enforcement found that it was basically slavery. It was free labor in the home, the owners of the home were arrested and prosecuted. The young women who we were able to rescue is in college and now wants to be an ice agent. Incredible story when you think its not just finding these mainly young women, 80 of people who are trafficked are women and girls globally that is anyway. Its also think about that experience and trying to live a normal life after that. Well, im the mother of a 14yearold girl, imagine this is very personal at this stage of my life because that the age that a lot of these young girls are trapped in this situation, they are told youre going to be a model, dancer, turn in to prostitution. I think the work that carlson is doing in terms of awareness at all levels, napolitano on federal government and im very impressed with the minnesota law the safe harbor law. I never really thought of that at that point. Child prostitution is not a free will of this little girl going to sell their bodies. They have been enticed by adults in that business the government should look at that differently. Whole Cottage Industry now of ngos is coming together, theres one in washington, citizens at risk. They have been training steward defenses flight dependents. And they have actually this new program where theyre approaching air lines get this little Public Education brochure put in your pocket there so that while youre on the plane you can read about what this looks like and when you can identify. I just think of our whole society becomes educated that it will change the equation. This is not something anyone ever wanted to think about. Were tall in agreement. Nobody at this table to pro Human Trafficking. But this to me you know what is amazing to me, too, its growing. Its growing. And some people are ive noticed increased awareness recently but still most americans have no idea this is going glob exactly. Raising awareness but to me this is hard to find. This is difficult to prosecute, this is expensive. Just like prosecuting rape cases all these unopen, untested rape kits. We look at our system of Law Enforcement its easier to pull someone over for speeding to than it is to do these long detailed investigations where you have fewer payoffs these are much more high impact. To me, thats really calls for big reexamination of what our priorities are. I thought this story in particular helped jar awareness, because very often we talk about sex trafficking were thinking about women overseas its much harder to get americans and westerners to think about what is going on in foreign cities and countries. So i think this might help on a global level. 32 billion business, 100 million that have right here in our washington area. What do you see is the way to get at it, again, lets talk about the fact that this largely internet and increased travel driven. Its a great idea theyre pushing hard from all sectors. But then also this is something that you get a response from women and mothers. I do think that the Public Education is going to change the equation on it. You need to talk to your children i think because very easy to suddenly become hysterical over Something Like this, not let your kids walk to the park or go to the movies. We dont want to live in that kind of society. But having that communication with your children as they get to be in their teenage years, these are the rules. These are the people you speak to. How do you apply that to the internet, though. Because that is where a lot of these what do you say to your kids, i have to see everything that you do on the internet . How does that work . You talk about it, because i deal with that all the time with my kids. Really the concept of the internet when you are in public territory and when you talk to a stranger online its like youre talking to a stranger in a park. They have to understand that. When they put themselves out there they are exposing themselves when a traininger calls, like have you stopped your daughter from communicating its impossible. Like trying not to breathe. In terms of communicating online, i dont micro manage her online activity. I have to build value system within her to make a the right choices. All right, thats it for theyd eggs of to the contrary. Please follow me on twitter bonnieerbe and tothecontrary and visit our website. Pbs. Org tothecontrary where the discussion continues. Whether you agree or think, to the contrary, please join us next time. Funding for to the contrary provided by the Cornell Douglas foundation committed to encouraging stewardship of the environment, land conservation, watershed protection and eliminating harmful chemicals. Additional funding provided by the colcom foundation. The Wallace Genetic Foundation the e. Rhodes and leona b. Carpenter foundation. And by the charles a. Frueauff foundation. For a transcript or to see an online version of this episode of to the contrary please visit our pbs website at www. Pbs. Org tothecontrary