Divorce. American style. If you are married, the odds of getting divorced are about 50 50. If you are not married the odds of avoiding divorce are much better. If you heed the advice of this 600dollar divorce lawyer. From love to marriage to who gets control of the baby carriage, our guest has practical adve for every stage of the contemporary relationship. What happens next when you are no longer willing to wait until death do us part. We ask Beverly Hills divorce attorney mark bereden congratulations on this book what were you thinking . What does that mean . It is the question that all of your friends will ask to you after you have gone through a separation or divorce. What were you thinking . Why did you marry whoever . What is the principle reason why people get divorced. They get mried. Itho marriage there would be no divorce. Without marriage there would be no divorce whatsoever. Does that argue against marriage. It argues against immature marriage. I think marriage is a very sacred solemn vow that one takes and too many people take it too young and they do not take it seriously enough. Gene simmons and shanon tweed have lived together for years. 21 years. You mention them in the book. I do. Is it a salute to them . In a way it is. They have very unusual type of lifestyle. I dont think most people would be as toll rant with the activities of gene that shannon is. Do they have children. Two children. They are happily united. They have the perfect home life. If you look at their house, they have a beautiful home, beautiful kids. They go bowling on saturday nights. It is not what you would expect from the rock star of kiss. Marriage being the cause of divorce aside. No marriage, there would be no divorce. What is the other dominant reason why people get divorced. Without a doubt cheating. Adultery. People have propensity to engage in extra marital relationships. Not only the men today, the women as well. This is what you say about what adulter ri. It is. A legal term and also a religious term. It is. A difference between one night fling and a relationship. Whatever the indiscreption the perpetrator has to carry it around with him orer and live with what they have done. Moreover for most, if is enormous burden to carry, whether committed just once or multiple times. Frequently following the extra marital encounter the offending spouse feels remorse and is contrite. Then regrets that the encounter hurt their lover as well as their spouse. They really want to believe that the encounter may improve the marriage in a sense that he or she realizes i have been a real ignorant and from tod forward im going to appreciate what i have for better, for worse. Much of this process of reflection takes place in internal isolation because it cannot be shared with any win, especially your spouse except in the rarest of circumstances. Adultery must be kept a secret. In my line of thinking, a secret can never be shared by more than two people. As soon as a third party knows, the information is on the street. Absolutely true. If i am offing an affair with another woman, and that other woman then goes and tells her best friend, the secret is out at that point. Theres a more likely chance that the adultery is going to be discovered than if it is just kept between the two parties. Not advocating adultery. That is a fact of life. You have a fewest says and some of those featured are gene simons and shannon tweed. G. Jordan lidy. Richard katz and larry king. This is what gene gordon lidy says. The temptation to cheat is very strong. The more successful and powerful a man becomes, the more typical infidelity becomes. Women are naturally attracted to wealth and power and will throw themselves to a man who has either. If takes some one with extraordinary selfcontrol to deny them that temptation. If a man wants to cheat i would give him the same advice i was going to give a man that was temped to try heroin, dont do it. Power is afro dees shee back. I would also tell that man dont think you will get away with it. Women always know. Once you break that bond of trust, it may be forgiven but never be forgotten. You will never get back what you once had. Dont do it. Gordon lidy. You believe all that . Believe what he is saying is absolutely correct. Women have some power to detect . I know my wife in particular has that power to detect. I belt yours has it as well. Either one of us better be careful if we have such a notion. I know your wife very well. Rose who is a brilliant Makeup Artist and has been with me for about 20 years. Rose was the Makeup Artist for president clinton. She may still be. She made you up today. There we go. She hit the big time family. She improved on nature. This is really a season of tomorrow for tor meant for the person who has had a dull russ relationship. The adulterer is a very tormented person. Is that true . Of course they are. You are dealing with feelings you have towards your spouse, your lover. You dont know which way to turn. It is the ultimate glt. If you do not have the gil it is antisocialtype of personality. We are joined on a live line by pamela paul who is a distinguished writer and published a book called foreign affied. Also the author of start matrimony. Senator brown held hearings on the effect. Pornography on the family and i was there to talk about the impact porn had on relationships, marriages and children. The subcommittee held an entire hearing on the subject of pornography and its availability and volume. Can you speak to that . Sure. It used to be even just 10 or 15 years ago in order to have access to porn you have to go down to seedy side of town and go to adult theater or go to a news stand and buy a magazine and risk bumping in to your boss, wife. Now that is available on the internet, satellite television, cell phones. Ipod. No longer any barriers to entry. Children seeking it out. Children are looking at porn as long as toddlers. They tracked usage among Young Children of pornography. The average age is about 8 or 2 years old. Was it the position of the subcommittee of the judiciary which includes brownback and specker and Lindsay Graham and Teddy Kennedy and Diane Feinstein and richard derbin. Was it the position of the subcommittee that pornography leads to divorce. That it is virtual adultery. That it is anything in that order . Certainly that is what we were there to talk about and it wasnt just me but other expert witnesses who have seen a considerable in marital problems and divorce as a result of pornography, particularly porn on the internet. In 2003 the the American Academy of matrimony lawyers, they noticed a startling trend which is that twothirds of the laurs present had witnessed a sudden rise in divorces related to the internet and six in ten were a result ofhoseas a spoe looking at excessive amounts of pornography on line. The president says 8 years ago porn played almost no role in divorces. Today a significant number of cases in which it has a major role if not the decisive role of marriages breaking umm. When you talk to individual divorce lawyers across the country. Case after case. One lawyer in dallas says constantly a case in her practice of three lawyers that involves pornography. My experience is first of all how do you define what is excessive pornography. One, twice . I think you get in to a subjective area. No doubt whatsoever that people are looking at porn on the internet. When we talk about children looking at porn, if is the responsibility of the parents. I do not accept on any basis whatsoever that children are too sophisticated. They know how to get around this or that. They are more than ample programs available where you can get them off from looking at things. You can monitor your children on a realti basis. It is the responsibility of the parent to govern the children in this instance. No question that the convenience of having an affair, of picking the type of girl, for that matter, the type of guy, whatever you want is a push of the button. Are you talking about addictive porn viewing. There are people that becoming compulsive about pornography use. There are people that use it excessively. A habit or addiction, a sto kol gist has to determine that. The bottom line the effect on the relationship is enormous. What might not seem like adultery or virtual adultery to a man often feels that way to a woman. If that is the reality of her experience in that marriage, then is going to cause a problem. You have to keep in mind, john, the idea of virtual adultery is completely hypothetical. It is not legal adultery. It does not meet the test of adultery. No one is getting a divorce o theroun of having looked at something on the internet. I want to remark what mark was saying, which is that of course it should be parents responsibility to regulate their childrens exposure to media of all kinds. What is scary today it usually is not enough. Kids today can get around the filters in their schools. It is they say it is a joke, what the schools do to prevent them from going to pornographic websites. Libraries often do not have any filters. A parent control access in their own homes. Childrens friends might not control it or they might not control their television. Unfortunately there is only so enough parents can do. More and more parents are confronting the reality that look, their kids are going to come in to contact with this. What are they going to do about that . I got one quick question i want you to comment on. You distinguish between soft core and hard core and beyond hard core. It is interesting. I tnk st core pornography is increasingly part of regular mainstream media. Defined out of existence. When you talk to men who use porn, they often dont consider playboy to even be pornography. For them it is all about the act of sex which used to be the definition for hard core. We defined pornography down and we go to more and more extreme forms and become increasingly mainstream. This is the direction we have been going in for ten years and the internet accelerated that process. You think the frequent and regular and large use of pornography is an indication as some one has said, i think in that testimony of a disconnect that is going on in the marriage . Intimacy disconnect . Absolutely. If a man is online looking at porn, that is very isolating experience first of all to sit alone mturbing to your computer for hours on end. That is all about disconnection. He certainly is not with his wife or family talking or spending timing to or having sex with his wife. It creates distance in the relationship. Of course you could say suppose he was watching hours and hours of t. V. Yes, that is not spending time with his wife. You generally are not sitting there masturbating to the television, having this chemical process in his brain that goes along with masturbation. Thanks very muchamela Pau Larry King you pointed out here in that piece on him. You quote him as saying. I have been married six times but only been in love three time. The other three times i still dont know why i got married. I have loved only three women in my life. I think in the last 20 years larry has only been married two times. He goes on to say. He makes the same point as was made earlier by lidy and others and you. A marriage can technically survive adultery but never the same afterwards. He get manage to the comments on what the qualities are in women that he likes. One of best qualities in a woman is genuineness. As george burns said, if you can fake that, you got it made. A sense of humor. The ability to keep balance. Not too moody. Even tempered yet mysterious. We all want a little mystery. As far as longevitynarrie, i doot he the answer to longevity in marriage. That is one i dont know. Estimate i think i learned a lot about women in my life and sometimes i dont think i learned much at all. My favorite quote is from stu convenient hawkins. The man writes through his teeth. He holds it in his mouth. He is in a wheelchair, cant talk or move. One of the most brilliant men the world has ever known. I had him on my show interviewing him. He was answering my questions on his machine. Is is one of the srtesten in the entire world, astrophysics, big bang theory. You name it. I ask him what puzzles you the most . His answer. Women. Dont you agree . Is there anything that would puzzle you more than women . I think they bring a separate set as men do in relation to them, a separate set of skills, of intellect, intellectual vels. Intimidation. Sensitivity. You make the point here, men have no common sense. I have been told that. How do i know that for sure . My wife told me rose, whom we talked about earlier. Told me, she tells me. So do her sisters and friends. When it comes on common sense, we men are cerebrally challenged. Amazing how men of power and fame literally coward. Given a raised eyeow from their spouse. During the day these vir aisle men are running billion dollar corporations and playing super heroes on film and television. The moment they get home to their wives it is as if their spine was extracted in one fell stroke. What happens when you go home. What is the relationship between all of this and divorce . That is a sign of a healthy marriage. People getting their spine extracted when they end up going home probably will end up staying married longer many a good relationship, respect and admiration for your spouse. One of biggest problems in terms of marriage you asked earlier, adultery being the cause. As soon as you hold the other spouse in contempt, as soon as you put yourself on a different level than they are on, suddenly, i think the marriage is doomed to failure. If you think you are better than your spouse, your marriage is doomed to failure. With regard to the decision to have children, your advice t rembers ts. The decision to procreate, that decision will last a lifetime. Do yourself a favor and spend a few years with the person you are considering parenting with before you embark on this lifelong experience. You spend a lot of time dealing with custody, correct . I do. This is one of your insights from that. You think that people have children who should not have had them, at least with the particular spouse they had them with. I think the relationsp was already immature and adding the child to the overall situation only compounds that immaturity. All it does is create an innocent victim or victims being the children. Children are beautiful things and a precious experience that all of us really enjoy. When you put the children in the middle of a horrible divorce and make them go through that whole experience, unfair not only to yourself but to the children as well. It happened to you. It did happen to me. Luckily mine was not as horrible because of an ability to get along. I still remember as one of the worst experiences of my own divorce telling my fouryearold son about it and him covering his ears and running out of the room. That is an image i will never forget. Whats the formula for a marriage of duration and at least periods of bliss . I think the biggest thing you can do is respect the other person. Second biggest thing is you need to learn how to let things slide. Dont think that everything is said in a derogatory manner, that is offensive. You got to learn when to engage and not to engage. Learn what fights to pick and what fights not to pick. Most fights, you dont need to fight about them. In the grand scheme of life it does not mean anything. Who is going to what on any given weekend, night or wkday. Things that matter are the eth acall issues, religious values. Those are things that are important. Character. You stick with those and there is a solid base for those, then your marriage should last. Words to live by. I hope so. Pamela paul said she does not expect to film any books in the divorce season. I think divorce and books aboutornography are b sellers during the holiday season. Especially divorce. That is the time we are sitting around the tree with the family and after we are done sitting around the tree we are in disgust. By january you said i will not spend another christmas together with that woman or man. Just to raise the level of conversation to something that is so distressing. This is one are your insightful writers. Go ner from love boat. I would define love the same way john lenon would define life. Lenon says life is what happens while you are busy making other plans. To me love is what happens while you are planning other engagements. Work, career. To me love is what distills down and holds two people together. Love is one of those few things that allow two people to be together for a long time and remain close even if they are not terribly compatible. If you are thinking seriously about marrying some one, rather than necessarily living together or acting out the marriage, go right to the trial separation first. See what your life is like without one another after you had a close bond. See if you can survive that. Then perhaps that becomes unbearable. You have learned something about what your commit many towards one another might be. I think it is a brilliant idea. Fred, a lot of people dont realize is a magna kum ladder graduate fromarva university. He went through one of the most painful nasty divorces in his life. While he was out cruising the love beau hehe was in the middle of a terrible divorce. I think his advice is very wise. Your book is complete with all kinds of detail on all aspects of divorce to the lawyers to the judges. While you have a very strong judgment against adultery, and you have very strong judgment on favorably of course, you examount exalt love and the love of marriage, you nevertheless give advice to those who might want to take alternate views. You say do not use credit or debit cards to pay for affairs or use cameras with your paramours. Phone records tell a story. Use a land line or pay phone. The grass is almost never green on the other side. The passion of sex always changes over time. What is exciting with your lover will eventually become quote, unquote the same old thing. If you commit adultery assume you will be caught and be prepared to accept the consequences. You say it is impossible to conceal an adulterous relationship. I think everyone gets caught. You go on to talk about the role of the computer. Computer are as wonderful they are, are dangerous. If you consider illicit relationship the computer is the wrong means by which to pursue it. Store bought calling cards is far more preferable to land line or cell phone calls. Phone records are easily traceable. Viewing internet pornography. Thinking about doing something, you might be on investigative candid camera. You say all files, all computers and cell phones. Cell phone records are easy to obtain. Easy. You have private investigators who have been in your employ. Of course. You have to send a subpoena or verizon or t. Mobile and get every phone call you ever made or received. You serve a subpoena upon the custodian of records. Ii will use verizon as an exampe and i get all of John Mclaughlins phone bills. I can see all the calls you made, when you made them and to whom. Are there more adulterous men or women. I think there is more men. I think the women are fast on the rise. They are coming out of the closet this wholeesperate housewi type of mentality. Women commit adultery. Women have affairs. No doubt about it. Thanks so much for being my guest. Thank you for having me. Be well. And you