fight, that is what a scene is about, you have to figure out what the quarter is and give that much energy going for it. >> and we continue with judi dench. >> don't think you have got to play every aspect of a part in every scene of a character. you just play one small bit of it, and then the next scene you can concentrate on another and the next and then at the end, maybe you will have presented the whole character. which is a very good tip to learn, because you get so anxious, i was madder than your box of frogs, you know, but i know now i only needed one way of saying she was mad. >> rose: we continue this evening also with tilda swinton. >> remain open and free and relaxed and up for it, and it is very difficult, particularly if you are as most of us are, shy, and inclined to put up some kind of carapace fortunately, i don't have -- i don't know about the training of proper actors and i think there are all sorts of training that one can go through, .. i have not ever had that so i am slightly a rough specimen in front of the camera but that is my aim to try to look like i am not being watched. >> and we conclude this evening with audrey tautou. >> it is the playfulness of the acting, that is what i really like. i like really concentrating on the part and carryg the creation with a director and sharing with the actors. >> rose: some of the actresses who have come to our table in the past year to talk about their craft and their life. next. >> funding for charlie rose was provided by the following. >> additional funding provided by these funders. and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. >> captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: for millions around the world the audrey tautou book is a form of entertainment like going to the movies, simply reading, audible dot-com.com released new audio books called the a list collection, features hollywood stars reading great works of literature which they have selected. join me now to talk about this project is anne hathaway a nominated actress and chosen to read frank baum's the world drnd, wonderful wizard of oz. >> how did you get involved in this, they come to you and say we want you to do this? >> it just seemed like a wonderful opportunity. i love books and i do love to read and i love to read books to people, so it was kind of a no-brainer. >> rose: and why the wizard of oz? >> i do love judi garland, i am a huge fan. >> rose: you loved the movie. >> i loved the movie and never read the book i be bet there are a l of peole out there who have such love for the material without ever having explored the source material so i read the book, saw this could be a great time, there is, i think literally hundreds of voices in it and it was, it was three great days. >> rose: it is different than just reading, i mean, obviously different than acting because you have to use your voice but you can also do some kind of contortions with your face to make the sound. >> yes, yes. >> rose: how does that work? >> the way i did it and the reason -- and it was different than doing on camera work because you can -- you can look grtesquen an unbeliab way, i mean, you can sound a certain way but you don't have to do it for a very long amount of time so if you choose a particularly taxing voice you may only have to read it for three pages so you can kind of go for it, exhaust yourself take a break and on a film you would have to do that for weeks or months at a time. >> rose: was there some sense of discovery about all of this? >> oh, yes, absolutely. well, first of all, i read it at the time that i was filming dark knight rises which is, you know, was a very serious job to get to be in such a whimsical world, a world of imagination, it was a different sort of imagination. it was a nice release, and the book resonates today, i think that was probably the biggest discovery, it was written over 100 years ago, but you can love it as though it was written and you can relate to it as though it were written last week. >> rose: acting school, what does it teach you? >> listening. it teaches you -- >> rose: that is kind of the answer i am looking for, yes. >> because you like to be listened to. >> rose: i like to listen,o, but it is a notion of taking the question seriously what is it you learned magical? you learn to listen. >> you do, and you learn to sit and watch the work of others, i think you learn kindness, i think you learn compassion to have, how ca how difficult it it up there and give, and you pick up wonderful, wonderful little techniques that teaches you how to get into a scene, i mean i remember my favorite lesson i ever had was from my teacher at the barrow group, and she had -- he had a quarter in his hand and each of us tried to get the quarter from him, and w all completely failed. and then he said, okay and he gave the quarter to one person in the class and said, now, keep the quarter away from me, and the person says okay and he attacked their hand, i mean tackled them and got the quarter out of their hand in two seconds and said you have to fight that is what the scene, is you have to figure out what the quarter is and get that much energy going for it. >> rose: that is great too. >> it was keep when i heard that, it like opened my world. >> rose: so what is it in your dna that makes you like it so much? >> i never stop to think about it so you will have to giv me a second. i think one of -- i love people and i love emotions and i am fascinated by people, and i am fascinated by people's relationship with their emotions, whether or not they are open with them, whether or not they are repressing them, they acknowledge them, if they are traumatized in some way and can't access them. there are so many -- for every person you meet there is a whole new infinite number of possibilities of how that person has come to be and i just find -- i get really tued onby that andhat leads you a lot of great things that leads you to books you want to read, it leads you to studying psychology, it leads you to just sitting down and talking with people, observing human behavior, to dance and movement and it is all really connected and interesting. >> rose: have directors made an impact? >> oh, yes, oh, absolutely. i mean, i told you jonathan demi, i talked to him earlier today. he has had a huge impact on my life. to this day. gary marshall and, anna lee. >> rose: tell the story of anne lee, that was an ely moment for you, wasn't it? >> yes, it was. >> rose: you said to him, i will come be your assistant, whatever you want. >> no, i said that to him afterwards. >> rose: that was afterwards? oh. >> hasn't called me since so i think i may have scared him. well, i was filming princess diaries 2 at the time and i read the script for broke back mountain and said i wanted -- >> rose: this is a breakthrough for you? >> yes that was a game changer for me for sure, and i think i had the benefit of ang not being very familiar with my work because he was not a big pncess mov fa >> rose: right. >> and not that he is anti-princess but just not familiar. so, if that explains it, so i came in and it just was one of those wonderful, inexplicable things we had a connection and sat there and our energies were -- had a lovely conversation and we had a lovely conversation, i read the scenes and he said thank you very much and i think within a few weeks i got the part. >> rose: and having done the part an having done it well, how did it changeyour life? >> i think, for me, when i look at jake and michelle and of course heath ledger i couldn't believe i was acting amongst my piers of that level of actor and i couldn't believe that somebody was giving us money to go off and create, and it forced me to believe that maybe i had a place there, and i doubt it, but someone thought that i did, anne thought i did and who was it to doubt ang lee. >> itwas geing to work at a certain level of precision i was so excited by, had so much fun and was never able to play someone where i could do that much reach for. it was just -- and then, orange, you know,, getting to play a character that aged, getting to play a character that wasn't a young, wide-eyed ernest princess allowed people to think of me in a new way which opened up a whole new aspect of my career. >> rose: how do you get better? >> iwo to the theatre. >> rose: you go and watch and observe and soak up whatever you ca >> yes. guto t theatre and the watch meryl streep movies and i watch other people's work, quite frankly because when you start getting happy with your movie pop in a williams movie and let you know how far you actually are away from where you think you should be. >> rose: what is interesting, i once wanted to take acting lessons not to be an actor, but to understand what it meant to be an actor, how an actor saw the scene, how an actor saw, you know, the relationships. >> the freedom. when you can find actors -- and the longer i do this, the more i appreciate how ha it is to let go and meryl streep has it, penelope cruz has it, daniel day-lewis has it. >> define let go for me. >> it is, i actually read something in ms. the other day where victor hugo describes the realm of genius to be able to burn and fly and think that is what it is, and there is some actors who say, oh well it is like being on a tightrope without a net and some actors that say yeah but there is n tightrope. >> roe: exactly. bill inside says to me one, once he said the key to acting is deliver a line as if you just had the thought, that that is the secret of doing it .. >> i will take that into consideration. >> rose: it is true, though, isn't it? in a sense you are reading the script and thought about the performance, but you need to some how, cross the river where you are really as in a sense for getting it is preparation and it is as if you just had that thought, that makes sense to me. >> i think there are a lot of different ways of articulating it, i tink spontaneity is the key, so if -- like you just had that thought, you just have to forget that you know the lines, you have to -- >> rose: exactly. >> in my case, you know, it is a delicious thing when you are acting you don't know what is coming next and you don't particularly care. >> rose: you don't particularly care? >> it is nice when you are working with actors who are of the same mindset because they might be caring. you have to get there. i am not a saying you don't get there. >> rose: good actors can make you better like -- >> yes. absolutely. that is the truth. that is the truth. which is why i have always worked with people who are better than me. >> rose: and so when you are in a scene with meryl streep and you know tomorrow you are going to shoot an important scene with her and you want to show her -- how do you get up for that? >> i want to show her? >> rose: no. you want to say, i belong here. you do. >> rose: you do. >> i never felt comfortable saying i belong here. >> rose: you don't? >> ever everyo made me feel like i belonged. >> rose: you are talking about a particular film now. >> yes, the devil does prada, it is too much to think i had a right to be there with those actors, so i just came in and did the best i could every day and listened a lot and the thing with merrill is, oh, merrill, oh, the kennedy described her as a miracle and that's exactly it, they samir cal, as a human being as well as an act tres and, actress .. and she comes into a room and change the energy. she changes the molule and you just become a part of it, and she -- i remember one day, we came in and we shot her coverage first, and i got into an emotional place for her coverage and the camera turned around and i got a little nervous because, you know, it is hard to be vulnerable and think that people are going to see that, and i hadn't quite gotten comfortable at tha tata point oy career and meryl upped her game until i had no choice but give the performance and just gave that to me, it was a gift and she cared tha muc and she had enough respect for her project, for her work and for acting i think to give that much. >> rose: what is the toughest role for you that you have had so far? >> probably emma in one day. >> rose: why? >> it was hard to agree what the accent should be, and i wanted to do something with the accent that either i didn't accomplish or it was not -- let's just say i didn't accomplish it. i want -- and it was difficult to within the spanf a movie that is 90 minutes two, hours at the most to anal 20 years i wanted to anal vocally over the course of 20 years so i wanted to have a strong accent in the beginning and then have it as the years went on level out into a southern -- to a london accent, south england accent and that was very difficult to do because we didn't shoot the movie sequentially so it was tough. long hours, no money, the whole thing. >> rose: thanks for coming. >> it is always a pleasure to see you. >> rose: judi dench is here, she is an acting legend from theatre to film. in 1999 she won the tony award for her role in amy's view, that same year she received the oscar for best supporting actress for her performance as queen elizabeth in shakespeare in love, when you talk about judi says sir richard air, the former leader of the national theatre you unpack a suitcase of superlatives there is not a trace of self advertisement about her he is genuinely modest but in my view he is our greatest actress here is a look at just somef her work. >> you remember the time when i tidied everything for you, and you didn't come, and you didn't come, and there was nothing left to make the effort for. i have no place without you. >> i will let you know a secret. i have my eye on your cousin. >> oh, for a character in your novel, ms. lavish. >> the young english girl transfigured by italy. >> and why should she not be trance figured? >> it happened tohe gts. >> you don't like, goths. >> bond, you think i am an accountant, a bean counter, more interested in my numbers than your instincts. >> the thought had occurred to me. >> good. >> because i think you are a sexist misogynist dinosaur. >> i cannot allow it, because i cannot live without you. without you, i can't find the strength to be who i must be. >> very worthy sum for a very worthy question. the very nature of love. i bear witness to the wager and will be the judge of it as occasion arises. >> we don't become happy just because we are free. if we are. or because we have been educated, if we have. but because education may be the means by which we realize we are happy. >> mr. darcy is engaged to my daughter, now what are you to say? >> you can have no reason to suppose you would make an offer to me. >> you selfi girl. this union has been planned since infancy. >> do you think it can be prevent bid a young woman ofin fehr your birth. >> you have no courage. stick that thing out. >> i am trying to save your finances. >> i don't need your protection, thank you very much. >> they are obviously not daring enough, why don't we get rid of the clothes. >> pardon? >> let's have naked girls. don't you think? >> when i was young, i had such a vision of myself. i dreamt i would b someone to be reckoned with, you know, in the world. but one learns one's scale. i dread living my days alone. >> my girl you must not concern yourself. >> a great actress like yourself has many other things on your mind. >> you think of a great actress. >> none of us know how to truly act for the camera but you do, it is a rare gift. >> rose: so what do you think? there were so many. >> rose: but you did pretty well, i thought. >> well -- >> rose: what did you think. >> what was that voice in the beginning? >> rose: you when you were a child is what it was. >> that was my voice? it has been abused so badly since. >> rose: really it was a remarkable body of work here, my dear. >> well, i remember a lot of it, i do remember doing it but, you know. lovely to do. >> rose: lovely to do. it is also like a snapshot of so much of british fi and theatre, actors. >> not much theatre there. >> rose: well, some occasionally. now on your part, now, would you rather we had filmed what you had done on stage? >> yes. >> rose: because? >> because well, though we would have had to encapsulate a certain thing and may not have been the right night at least in the theatre you get more chance to have a go at it. >> rose: you go every night. >> because you do it ref every night andoudjust things as you go along. >> rose: and you get the role better and better. >> hopefully, sometimes you get it, you know. i remember peter walking around saying it went it a bit baroque what do you mean? >> he means it has something with the shape of something might be like that, suddenly it has gone like that on the end. >> rose: so did you do films simply because it was a challenge or make money or -- >> i did do film, i mean, when i was asked to do it, i did it. but i didn't real -- t theatre, you know, is the thing i like the best, and then it was only after mrs. brown, really, that i really got film scripts at all, and then, you know, if you work with people like kevin spacey, cate blanchett, you learn about it, and i never want there to be a day when i don't. >> rose: so john meant what to your career? >> well he meant everything to my film career because if i hadn't made mrs. brown with him, i wouldn'tbe sitti re talk to you now charlie. >> oh i would be looking for you and in search of you. >> and i mean, that entirely changed my career. entirely. >> rose: after that -- >> well, i don't know -- i got more office. >> rose: and harvey played a role too? >> he played a large role as you well know, well, because mrs. brown was made for television. >> rose: yes. >> -- harvey saw it and this is not television this is going to be a film. rose: and sakespeare came along and there you were. >> i promised harvey i would have harvey wearing -- on my bum. >> rose: yes. i encourage you not to do that. >> he is not. >> rose: yes, of course he is not. he like everybody -- >> >> rose: so there is a time in which you first appeared in hamlet and in the british production, and the reviews were not good. >> terrible. >> rose: terrible. >> my first job. >> rose: yes, i know. >> ys. >> rose: and were you devastated? >> yes. >> rose: did you think i have chosen the wrong profession? >> , no i thought am i going to be checked out of the old vick. >> rose: oh, yes you thought that. >> then they decided to take it to the united states, but they say you are not coming. >> no, they said you can come but somebody else is going to play your part. >> rose: okay. >> so i went and the princess of france in henry the fifth but i was at hamlet, and harvey,. >> rose: larry harvey. >> henry the fifth an i had th night off when it was hamlet and he had just done room with a view so he was off doing all sorts of press and things and i saw i think every play, certainly every play in new york. >> rose: and then when they decided to do it again. >> then when we went back we were asked to go to yugoslavia. >> a. >> and a lady who was playing the ophelia. >> they came and said, would you like to do it again? i said, yes. >> rose: now that is because they had come to appreciate you more? >> no, i don't think so. >> rose: that you had learned something? had you learned something dferent? >> i think i had learned a lot. >> rose: what had you learned? >> i think i learned a lot about how to be a better actress by watching, watching people in the theatre, which is the only way you learn it, i think. >> rose: and if a young actress says come or actor says come to you tell me the most important thing you have learned about this craft. what would you say? >> well, a good tip to pass on, you mean. >> rose: a tip, a life lesson. >> i have got -- >> rose: do you remember what you id to me before? >> yes. there are two things that when i play a, cleopatra at the national, with tony hopkins, i was very, very worried about it, and there are two notes that peter gave me. one was don't think that you have got to play every aspect of a part in every scene of a character. you just play one small bit of it and the next scene you can concentrate on another and the next and then at the end, maybe you will have presented the whole character. d -- which is a very good tip toearn because you get so anxious, you know orcs feel i can't i was madder than your box of frogs, you know, but i know now i only needed one way of saying she was mad. >> rose: is that a british expression, madder than a box of frogs? >> yes. is it or a cut snake? >> rose: well -- >> either one, mad as a box of frogs. >> rose: or a cut snake. very good. you can think of madness with a bunch of frogs in a box. >> and then the other thing he said was, don't believe that everything everybody says about you in a play is tr. >> rose: you mn how good your performance was? >> no. you know, in a anne barber says well when they say to him what she likes and gets back to rome and he goes off on the wonderful speech peter remember back he is back in a pub in rome with his mates and of course he is going to go off and say well when she went by in a boat you could smell the perfume and people fall over when they see her and everything don't believe that, he said that is boasting, you know, it is two marvelous notes. >> rose: you are seen so magistra, iean u mentioned lawrence harvey and al all thinf all of the people you have acted with, so many. who do you remember? i mean, when you think -- >> i remember them all. >> rose: do you? >> for one reason or another. not guilty at this behavior or whatever. >> rose: tell me -- go ahead. >> i do, because i had, from 57 to 61, i was at the vick all of that, the old vick all that time and we did the whole canon of shakespeare and so i mean when i came plertrde i hamlet with daniel day-lewis all i could think of was corral brown as gertrude in the one -- who is sublimely wonderful so i thought i would copy her and copy her when it comes to corral brown, but you learn absolutely -- i mean, in the -- when i went to the vick, the opinion was run by john neville, and he taught me all i ever learned about behavior in a company, and actually how, you know, so that you don't come to a rehearsal prepared, that you do, do that amount of homework. >> rose: you say he taught me all that i learned. >> all that i learned about being in a company and part of a company flew part of it was don't come unprepared. >> don't come unprepared. >> rose: what else? >> don't come unprepared. always be on time. don't mess about. and there is a certain amount of homework you have to do. don't come and use the time to do your bit of homework, that you have not done the night before and take up everybody else's time. >> rose: ah. so it is an insult to them if you not prepared. >> it is just cnsidatio that other people are doing a job as well. >> rose: who else do you remember? >> oh, oh, who do i remember? oh, dougie campbell, john gielgud,. >> rose: john gielgud. >> yes. we did the cherry orchard and i 20 stratford, with peggy ashcroft, and john, well, and michelle gave me a very bad time, and she -- i mean, it was an unbelievly stellar ca's, and we get to the end of a run-through, and he would go around giving people notes at the end of act one, and then he would get to me and go -- >> rose: something for you? >> no, i don't know how to put it right. you know. so when it came to a run, it made me more and more and more tense, when it came to a 31 through of the play, john, as we went around to do act two said to me if you would be doing that me i wld delighted and he changed my entire attitude about it. you know. >> rose: your daughter said the only part of her that is totally unreachable for me is that she has never told me why she is an actress. >> no. it is another thing john said make up your mind why you want to be an actor and never tell anyone, keep it to yourself. yes. it is true. >> rose: do you know why you decided to be an actor. >> i do. >> rose: but you are not going to share it with me. >> no. i am a blank wall. i am fixed. >> rose: a blank wall. but at the same time, what is really interesting about you for me is that as you have done all of these kinds of things, you have some magical thing about you and maybe it is the personality that we see that just -- people love you, they do. you know that. >> well, i have plenty of people whwho have said, you know, whats that play you were in? taxi drer. what was the play you were in? the role of family and this man says, yeah, rubbish. >> rose: not so good. didn't like it. he is the perfect shakespearean because the great characters have fantastic speed of thought this is what i find interesting speed of wit, speed of response, speed of invention of the image only if the actor convince it is audience it is being coined in that bra in that situatn, you live in the moment, it is like bill with once said to me the speaking the words as if you just -- >> never thought of them. >> rose: yes. >> on the 17th day, yes. >> rose: that is true, isn't it? >> it is exactly true of all of us, yes. >> rose: and how do you -- i mean, other than hard work, hard work, hard work, you know, more roles, more roles, more roles that's the only way to get that? >> i don't know. charlie. i don't know. >> rose: yeah. >> i mean sometimes i have watched thgs i ve done and thought i am speaking much too quickly, i should take more time about something, you know,. >> rose: but didn't you have a director tell me that. >> yes, no and they might have told you and you forget and get back into your old ways again, it is like falling over, like falling over everything i do. >> rose: how do you feel about growing old yourself? >> well, i don't like the word much. >> rose: i don't either much. >> then let's not use it. >> rose: all right, let's not. >> no, i don't think -- it is to do -- are you going to retire? do you think? >> rose: no. >> what? >> rose: what? i can't, it is not even -- >> we are in that minute minority, it is an oxymoron, isn't it that do jobs that we love. >> rose: exactly. >> and we are lucky enough to be employed doing it. >> rose: yes, count your blessings every day. >> what a blessing. >> rose: it is. i know. the other thing that i find interesting about this cast is what you have learned from each other. that is the product of a great life in theatre. >> and i it is it is good bit, that is egoodbit,ou know, that i could -- i couldn't do a one woman show, i would have no interest at all in doing a one woman show. >> rose: you would do one but you wouldn't want to. >> i couldn't even do it. >> rose: why? >> there. >> there is nobody to interact with, and nobody to get ready for. >> rose: you can do that with the audience? >> that's the job but it is a bit solitude, at that, so i wouldn't -- you know, it is work, like we can be doing the same play we have done for 100 -- we have done 100 times, b you do it eve so slightly different every night, ever so slightly, and with any kind of sensitivity, it would make me change slightly, and and theref, like those great things in a ballroom with masses of mirrors on that go and, you know, reflect little bits of light. sometimes, and i think the longer you act and the -- that word we don't use you get. >> rose: right. >> it doesn'tappen much but metis the is a moment in a play that everything and every actor will tell you this, that everything works that night, everything, everybody, there is a certain degree of tiredness or a certain degree of preparedness, and the audience is in the same kind of -- >> rose: place. >> -- relation and somehow the play will take off but it happens rarely. >> rose: i assume tiredness because all of your mechanisms are he is bare, iigh make you think about it so something takes over other than a consciousness. >> yes, yes. if you get too tired you have blown it, but you can get to a stage where it just locks into place without the effort that is required the night before. >> rose: could you name three moments on stage that has happened to you in which -- >> i know that on the first night of cleopatra at the national, we did the play as well as we possibly could, up to thatime, and i don er remember that happening in a production before, but until the moment -- we rehearsed and everything had gone as well as it possibly could through that night. and i remember thinking, well, that's it. that is as much as we could do until tonight and then later we did 100 performances of it and later it got better but until that night, it had gone as well as it could. >> rose: and everybody always heard this story about lawrence olivier and said this is a marvelous and wonderful and he said, you know, d't younow that, yes but -- >> but how do i do it? >> rose: thank you. ghoa tilda swinton is here, although she hesitates to call herself an actor he is one of the most sought after wonders in hollywood. >> it is written she has become one of the few must see performers in the world, she is a floating event coupled to which she is very smart, amiable and on nest, a film star now and a film star should be aware because swinton could blow the concept to smithereens i am pleased to have tilda swion back at this table, welcome, welcome. >> thank you, charlie. >> rose: great to see you. >> great to be here. >> rose: and again in white. >> again in white. yes, it kind of keeps me weak. >> rose: so what do we make of this .. fashion icon thing they have on you. >> dress by fed ex. >> rose: what does that mean. >> but you do care about style and care about fashion. >> sure. >> rose: why do you care about it? because it is a signature, because it is a statement? >> honestly for me, my relationship with fashion is about my friends ships, if i di't have friends that ma clothes i wouldn't wear anything but old corduroys. >> rose: in other words, you are paying homage to them -- >> but it is in selfish i it isa way of being in company so i am here with my friend barry here, a anne valerie ash,. >> she is par rigs. >> parisian. >> yes. >> as usual, like a pair of pajamas, anything that feels like a pair of pajamas. >> rose: so tell me about this movie and this character, infmed by the factyourea mother. >> honestly i think i would have wanted to make the film anyway. >> rose: and done it just as well. >> although one thing being a mother cleared up for me is that i am in th the very not that position of having children that i feel like h i was ready for ad really ready to be pregnant and have them and when they arrived i remember looking at them as we do, you look at them and all of the, you know, emotional substance is. there i was really, really happy to be facing their way. but i remember when i first met -- two for the price of one i remember being fully aware i was relieved, i thought wow, i didn't realize it was a matter of luck, but it is. it is a matter of luck, and we know that there are countless women for whom that thing does not kick in, they are in the nightmare of not having that maternal bond, and not really liking the kid and then the kid of course doesn't like the mother very much, because -- >> rose: do we know why in some instances that happens and in some instances it does not happen? >> mean -- i don't. i am not a psychiatrist. i mean we need to talk about this issue and there are all sorts of people that are beginning, you know, to largely things of lionel shriver's book but beginning to talk about that, there are all sorts of possibilities. i mean the boy is, you know, he is sort of in some ways a sociopathic of course he ends up murdering people, how much that has to do with her, you know,. >> rose: did you say say in an interview you once thought about murdering your little brought brother? >> i did, i did, i love him so much but it is true when i had two brothers already i was four and a half. >> rose: is this serious? >> i was four and a half and it is completely serious, my excuse is that i wanted a sister so badly and i had two brothers already and it felt so rude for my mother to give me another boy. >> you can't raise them with a four and a half-year-old who has 22 brothers, charlie and i remember going into the room sort of wondering how i was going, to you know, reverse or somehow me thishing go away and i didn't have an actual murder plan in mind be 2 irony but i ended up saving his life because i saw he was slightly choking on a piece of ribbon and someone came behind me and oh clever girl you saved your brother's life so i went through this life as my brother's savior when it finally came out. >> rose: this book is about evil? >> well, i don't know about evil, it is certainly about a conversation about evil. >> rose: right. >> it is about lack of empathy, which i think is a very important and interesng pchiatrists know much more about this than i do who talk about, you know, the need to not talk about evil but to talk about the lack of something, rather than the actual presence of something, i mean, personal personally i don't think talking about evil is useful at all because you talk about evil -- >> rose: the banality of evil -- >> it is always a way of pushing away from us oh that is evil, i could never understand it, it is completely inhuman, well, that is not -- >> rose: you shouldn't look at it and observe it but -- >> it is sort of why came ou of tcleos zero set about thinking of killing my brother when i was four and a half, you know, it is a human -- you know, the whole dance with empathy is, you know, available to all of us, how much empathy we have and there are moments when, you know, the vat is dry, but i think the idea of talking about evil, whether you are talking about demonizing someone because they don't believe what you believe or from a different country or, you know, whatever, is not useful. >> rose: you wrote poetry at cambridge. >> yes, well, no, strictly speaking i got -- i went to mbridge as a pt, i got in as a poet and the second i arrived i stopped the -- >> rose: you stopped what? >> i stopped writing the second i arrived. >> rose: why? >> well apparently i saw my old tutor not long ago and i said you do know, don't you i am a major fraud i got in a poet and i stopped writing when i arrived and she said, oh that is very ordinary, that happened all the time. >> rose: so what happens. >> i don't know, you get over taught, i think sometimes. >> rose: you came wanting to be a creative force. >> yes. >> rose: and to write and express yourself through poetry. >> yes. there is another thing out of my closet i am very embarrassed about it. >> rose: why? >> it feels like a lack of counsel, it is. i haven't really written poetry since. >> rose: but does all this mean you were relatively introspective? >> i am, to be honest. >> rose: and does that serve acting well? >> maybe it does. i don't know. it is a good question. i sometimes wonder why, and i go through great pains mainly so that real proper actors don't stand up and say she doesn't count, you know, to say i was an actor which, you know, i am splitting hairs because obviously, you know -- >> rose: you are good -- >> and i occasionally act i am just playing with it, but at the same time i think i keep saying it because i never intended to be an actor and i did slide into it when i stopped writing and it occurs to me that maybe it has a relation, you know, that what i love about the cinema is that intro speck sun in, is what i love about poetry also, which is that feeling of a kind of inarticulateness and looking for a way of saying unsayable things and knowing you are going to fail and the qulungs is kind of impossible but you are going to try anyway, think there is a relationship to me about being a performer. >> rose: indeed. you once said to me, i am trying tto remember what it was about acting, acting was something -- you had this wonderful way -- the essence of acting. >> was dressing up and playing. >> rose: dressing up and playing. that may be it but then there was a question, jar man had a huge influence on you. >> hiewb huge, i am not sure, i really can't imagine i would be making cinema as a performer if i hadn't met derek jar man he was a great film maker i met him in 1985 when i was deciding not to be a personaler and just left the university knowing i didn't want to work in the theatre particularly and he was an experimental film maker, who worked in a kind of family environment, i mean not literally. >> what does that mean? >> we were kind of kindergarten of young whatever, composers, sandy powell the great costume designer that works with martin score situatscorsese, he would d of situation where he would say, hook let's make a film oh, i don't know, an adaptation of henry the second, work it out, just work it out, you go in there and you play -- work it out and it was -- that's why i say it was, a lot of us working with him were just out of art school or just out of whatever, off the streets, and there was a real family atmosphere, it felt very what i call preindustrial because the films were made for almost no money and so there was no pressure for them to make any money, which they always did they were so cheap th made a profit easily. >> rose: six or seven years? >> i worked with him or nine years, until he died in 1994, we made seven films together. but the films were always a sort of symptom of the life we were living and very often they were mailed on super eight, blown up to 45-millimeter and they were home movies a lot of the imtoo, it wasn't acting it was just larking around and dressing up and playing. >> rose: i found a quote you said that you said the key to acting is to look unwatched. >> ah. >> rose: you remember that? >> yeah. rose: and does that make sense? is that something you would say? >> yes, absolutely. that is what i hook for when i am watching -- that is what i look for as a film lover and looking for unwatchedness which is why i love documentaries. >> rose: explain what that means, unwatched. >> just daschle it is a trick, you know, that it is so different from the energy of the theatre, for example, where the whole point is that you are in a room with however many hundred people or maybe ten, but the camera is there, not like here where it is there, but it is there, it is looki at your every pore and you have to remain open to it, remain relaxed to it, remain engaged to what you are doing, remain spontaneous, all of those things we have been talking about actually, remain old, remain open and free and relaxed and up for it and it is very difficult, particularly if you are as most of us are shy and inclined to put up some kind of carapace, fortunately, i don't have -- i don't know about the training of proper actors and ithinther are all sorts of trainings that one can go through. i have not ever had that, so i am slightly rough specimen in front of a camera but that is my aim to try to look like i am not being watched. >> rose: do yo do you know whatu do to us boys? i mean, this freedom, this sense of flight with you is quite wonderful. the movie is called -- [ laughter ] >> i don't know what to say. >> rose: you can say anything. it is not just me. i am telling you. it is. you are, you know -- you have it, whatever it is, you have got it, baby. we need to talk about kevin. a movie that makes you think about what you might do if you had a kid that committed an awful atrocity and what guilt you would feel also, what demands it would make on you and how it would affect the way you live your life, a stunning performance as always. great. >> thank you charlie, everybody sees this film and they ring their moms afterwards. >> rose: do they really? >> a nice way to close. >> rose: paw awe is here in 2001, audrey tautou is here, captivates audiences worldwide i am proud to have audrey tautou back at this table. >> thank you very much. >> you are worried your english is better than my french. >> i am not sure of that. >> rose: i am positive about it. >> >> rose: it is just fine. this seems to me very much of a story of the magic of love. >> yes the magic of life too. >> rose: tell mehat this means toou, what this story is about for you. >> for me, it is the idea that you, even when you think everything is over. >> rose: yes. >> when you -- and any hope in the future because wow just lose your house, there is always, there always will be some good surprise surprises and the hope is never dead. >> so tell me who natalie -- i mean tell me who your character is. >> well, i think the that if am , im aery srong woman and she got this terrible -- >> rose: she lost her husband why he was jogging. >> yes so she becomes a very young widow. >> rose: she is young and successful and an executive. >> yes. >> rose: and powerful. >> yes. >> rose: she has the perfect life. >> but they is suddenly completely broken and she has to keep living and being -- >> rose: and then a man comes into her life who is not at all what she might have expected she would ever be? >> yes. nobody would have expected that this man would beomebod mportant f he >> rse:o how did it happen? >> well, it is the magic of meeting, you know, it is not -- nothing is written, especially in this part of life which is love. >> rose: have you ever found yourself in love with somebody that totally surprised you and you never thought would be your, quote, type? >> each time, several times. >> rose: really? >> >> well, yeah, i think if you expect -- i think it is a teenager dream to have the prince charming. >> rose: the prince is beautiful, smart, funny. >> and brilliant, yes, of course. and attentive and everything. >> rose: what everybody says to me, the one thing they are looking for, in a partner, spouse, wife, is somebody who makes them laugh. the idea to laugh seems to be central to relationships that have something special about them and it is true in this one too. >> well, it is because it is the symbol of true complicity when you laugh. that you are in a common -- >> rose: here is what is interesting about you, on the one hand your mother named you after audrey hepburn, meaning movies were a part of her own sort of context. secondly, you have always taken this idea that movies, to be an actress is not your life, your life is sailing, your life is reading, your life is doing everything else, it is only one part of who you are. >> yes. >> talk about that, well it is one part of my life, but it is an important part, but all of the center of interests and i never felt -- i don't know why this -- this thing to give all of my life to this job. >> do you like the celebrity part of it? >> well i get used to it. >> get used to it, yes. >> so it is better than before, but it is not something i am really interested in. i really, i think it is superficial. >> rose: you had a collaboration in two films let me make sure i am pronounced this right, john pierre. >> is that close. >> that is perfect. >> rose: that was a very good collaboration for you. >> yes. this was a very good collaboration. >> rose: what makes a good collaboration? >> because we are all both completely upset by details and perfection, so we were on the same road for his movies, you know, i liked how he wanted everything to be perfect and everything is millimeters by millimeters and it is a way that i liked to include that in my work when i used to work with him. >> rose: there is also -- i mean, two of your favorite films, emily and a long engagement? >> i'm sorry. >> are they two of your favorite films on the one hand emily and a very long engagement? if you look at allf those fil, do you have favorites? >> it is difficult, because you made very good choices. >> rose: of course we did. >> so it is very difficult. >> rose:. >> yes, it is not because i don't want to upset somebody, it is very difficult, because the directors i worked with are very special for me and in my heart. >> rose: oh he is wonderful. >> he is very special to me. >> rose: why is he special to you? >> because i had suchnamazng experience, and when i went to this shooting, i didn't know a word of english, and he was so confident and he made me act and he -- yes, he helped me a lot, and he is so bright and sensitive and just wonderful. >> rose: have you seen the artist? >> yes. >> rose: the film? did you like it. i like it very much. >> rose: is all france proud of this film? >> i hope so. > rose: they should be. >> yes, yes of course they should be buzz in france we like to fight our idols. >> rose: but -- >> i mean french people. >> rose: put them on a pedestal and take them down? >> yes, yes, it is a very french attitude. so personally i am very proud and happy for them. >> rose: who do you want to see be the next president of france? >> i want -- >> rose: you won't answer that question? >> no. >> rose: does koci's party or elan represent your values more? you are not going to answer that question either? >> no, i have no idea. i don't like politics. >> rose: you do have an idea. so tell me your ambition before we go. what is it that you want to be and do and what kinds of -- what kinds of things would make you happiest? what kind of film roles? how do you find the course that is most satisfying? >> well, actually, i just shot a movie directing by incle miller >>claudeille yes. >> based on the novel of -- >> rose: yes. >> and it was a very special experience and a very special part, that is the first time that a director offered me such dark and dangerous and -- i don't know. >> rose: and you liked it. >> woman. and i really liked it, and i think this is -- is is another step in my career. >> rose: another step in your career. >> yes. i would like to keep discovering other things and i would like to finish some projects i have in my head. >> rose: what impresses me most about you is this joy of discovery you have, this curiosity. >> yes. yes. it is the reason to live is to learn. >> and engage and explore? >> yes! and to always find some surprise. you know, it is a question of meetings. when you watch a new painting, you do something, it is the same thing for movies or books or countries. >> rose: for natalie kerr too, wouldn't it? your character? >> yes, yes. >> rose: a surprise. >> a surprise. >> yes. thank you for coming back. >> thank you for inviting me. >> rose: it is always good to see you. >> thank you. >> rose: than thank you for joig us. see you next time. funding for charlie rose has been provided by the coca-cola company. supporting this program since 2002. and american express. additional funding provided by these funders. >> and by bloomberg a provider of multimedia and news and information services worldwide.