Quoting president obama as amenting mr. Camerons intentions toward libya. Obama said n, mr. Will become distracted by a things. Other brits reacted angrily. Spotted the tensions before most. During our december 12, 2014, we noted growing disagreements between the u. S. Defense spending. While those tensions are now relations areu. S. Increasingly complicated. Question. Pat . Is wrong here, pat i think, john, first off the president of the united way s even if that is the he felt shouldnt be saying that to mr. Goldberg at the atlantic feelings on the relationship with one of our best and most reliable allies. But since the end of the cold interests have begun it diverge and no doubt in the middle east everyone with the british, americans were hot to intervene in libya then away walked away and it has to hell in a hand basket. I guess that the president of withnited states is miffed cameron. But i dont think you say those and to sayournalists them especially about an ally like the brits. When it comes to defense effort and all the rest f it, the two countries have moving gradually apart. Eleanor i think that is a retty mild rebuke and relationship between cameron and obama is very strong. Parliamenthe british is investigating the libyan the british involvement in libya because they were in the forefront of the. Regime and that after wards the brits were in training theically Libyan Military and then they abruptly pulled out. Is the parliament investigating how libya became such a catastrophe not only to libyan people but for the british interests. Was ousted, David Cameron visited libya twice, basically a victory lap. So i think what the president not have he should said it but i think he spoke the truth that mr. Cameron has distracted. Among the distractions is trying in the european union. And the president really is behind him on that. So, i dont think theres any big rift here. T one of the principal tenets of the obama articulated by president obama to the goldberg. S jeffrey tom the most basic is dont do exmet active exmet american to avoid entanglements and get leadership actors. Nal the middle east is a failure to the viewpoint. With pat and he will nor to some degree in a balanced sense in that president obama have said this to everygoldberg. He has he regrets it but understandable and legitimate points of grievance in terms of european allies saying one thing and doing another, not pulling their weight on defense. Britain is better than most but good enough. Germany is the worst example. Ut the degree to which they play games with the russians on one side but with britain a big point of contention is with china and Investment Bank where the British Government is more losely aligned with china than the Obama Administration would want. On the british side i think more real point of grievance is about the falklands where the administration through to kerry will seemed suggest that was open to negotiation. That caused a lot of consternation. Washed this will be away. Clarence libya is a special frustration because he elected us out of wars in afghanistan and iraq. His was a war he got us into with the best of intentions trying to do something to save massacred by ing qaddafi. Qaddafi was overthrown but the a mess partly to because of tly england not being there and u. S. Got tied up in iraq and other problems. T it is a frustration for his dent obama because doctrine such as it is, is to ry to work morE Partnerships and not be aggressive with our unilateralism. Unless not going to work you can get countries like england, our best pal overseas. We go in for humanitarian cadavqaddafi from verwhelming benghazi and perpetrating a massacre. We should have held him up 48 hours and said you are on your own. We went for humanitarian reasons and left a humanitarian disaster place. Erybody in that Hillary Clinton is responsible, the brits and french are responsible. Responsible. Is if there is an archetype of what is. Sastrous intervention eleanor it was a nato operation and everybody took great pride the fact that nobody died on the nato side and that this was well. Lished so and then they didnt keep at it month after and the afternoon and the year after. I think that is what was behind he president s remark in that interview. Tom i do think conservatives ave to be careful about criticizing him too strongly because people annoyed with the military are the u. S. Because the europeans claim at will of credit for strikes as in syria but the people flying and refueling, armament, that is manifestly with the United States phemilitary. Bsent that it would fundamentally be incapable. They could not do it. Pat as somebody said the brits dozen cruise o missiles then had to go back whom and get some more go and get some more. Tom and that is embarrassing. Pathetic. Hat is tom there are things in the intelligent and special forces the union is very strong and lost a lot of people in afghanistan and iraq. President obama transformed americas Foreign Policy for the better or for the pat buchanan . Pat i think it is a combination. Is reluctance to intervene good but libya is a disaster. Red ould not have put the line down. I think overall i dont give him igh marks but his fundamental idea that we go in, go together and get out and come home is application has been very poor. He nor he recognizes that cant go it alone and the American People dont want to go engage and he tried to the world. He had notable successes. I put the Iran Nuclear Deal and of relations with cuba on that list. I think the see american influence and he seeks best practice you have to show points ation at certain that are clear and syria will be a big stain on his presidency. 250,000 dead there. Clarence i think he added a element of caution to overseas adventures that we ont think we are going in to solve other peoples problems and install democracy overnight. Those hard lessons. What to do now is complicated frustration. John threats from isis and al under ave multiplied obamas watch. Worse eign policy is because of obamas transformations. And china ith russia are worse and america is less trusted by its allies. Of that . Ou think with isis he problem came about because he their ability to ir aggressiveness. Learned those hard lessons. He turned the tables on isis. Hey have lost ground more recently. Become less organized. But it is still going to be a long hard slug. John what do we have a Defense Department for . Defend our interests and that is the primary element. Eleanor to make sure we dont involved in another happened war in the middle east. That is why we have a Defense Department. John why dont they keep him informed . Tom they do. The president k is acting on his understanding what American Power can do. Nd American Power, military power, is not going to solve what is happening in the middle east. Life boat for , lula . Amazonetic soccer, rain forest, 2016 Olympic Games million people, brazil is a vibrant nation. Annual g. D. P. Of early 2. 25 trillion it is increasingly wealthy. But led by president dilma rousseff, brazil is in political crisis. Facing because already impeachment for possibly oncealing government budget deficits preside rousseff has been implicated in Brazils Petrobras corruption scandal. Fearing for their democracy, of brazilians are taking to the streets to demand justice. Note this. Another target of petrobras investigators, former president Luiz Inacio Lula da sil known as lula. As just joined rousseffs cabinet. While a judge has put a hold on lulas intment, rationale seems obvious. Lulas azilian law Government Office will shield him from easy prosecution and lula is highly influential in brazils hopes that heseff will prevent her impeachment. Question. Why did former president Luiz Inacio Lula da silva take a in rousseffs government . You want to try your hand at that, eleanor . Sure. Or because under brazilian law a member of the cabinet can only by the Supreme Court and apparently that takes months and years. In effect put a cordon around him that he could not be prosecuted. But this is a huge betrayal of especially n brazil the poor people. They revered lula. Blow. S a huge and the people in the streets tends to be not the poor but the well off people who are angry about the collapse of the government. The poor people who have been really betrayed here. And you have got brazil going in the olympics coming, they are battling the zi virus. It is hard to see how this government performs. Essentially paralyzed. Pat this is worse than wat waterga watergate. Not only is the president of the country caught up in scandals his is the predecessor leader who will two terms and hes brought in to cover him and him a measure of immunity from prosecution. You have judges going after the government. I dont know how the government survivors too much longer. Mentioned, you have this mosquito Borne Disease down there that people read about all you have orld, then the olympics coming up. This summer, i guess. Is in very tough shape and it wouldnt surprise me to see there government either legally or by the crowds in the streets. Leanor they have a huge economic recession it add to the list of woes. Lessons. E first the lesson of what you have when you have a socialist structure up interviewed with economics. It is ripe for corruption. To be why we have careful with politicians talking about infrastructure without oversight. Eleanor that is ridiculous. Tom government has some insulation of itself. Point two, the problem you see very zil is that you have poor people and frankly you have , there was acredit overty program that generated research and will good effect. The more positive thing is with brazil having this moment of the judiciary providing scrutiny it will cause real powerful of institutions like the f. B. I. Hat we have here, who will go after everyone and will address the issues. But it will be hard. South similar things in africa with there political corruption. That is why you need a strong judiciary. Clarence both institutions are very important but this is fundamental fundamentally fundamentally too a personal corruption that is going on here. Whether the present president as a protege of lula so cronyism comes in on top of the corruption that is already the initial scandal. Eleanor i want to say that i blind hat corruption is when it comes to ideology. You can find people across the spectrum not ism. Usive to social pat you mentioned south africa. The bricks, brazil, russia, india, china, south all of them and problem. As a horrendous we had friends in every direction and now it is virtually enemies in almost every direction. It is involved in the battle in syria, they have fighting against the kurds. World is in a very bad place. Eleanor how did we get from turkey . O pat it is one of the bricks, emerging great powers. Tom i give president obama of the few things outreached olicy is africa in terms of rule of law. E focused on rule of law in frederi africa. Look s why people should to the United States for a rules based international system. Eleanor what about the special the ests and control in best Congress Money can buy . m not going to put the u. S. Naturally before every other country. We have our problems. Pat i will. Clarence president obama looks dell louisiana tom they betrayed his legacy. Pat they have zuma. South africa is in a disaster these people waiting or basically hardliners power. For clarence one thing that has strong m at bay is institutions like the law there. The they got rid of scorpion police unit skwraofrplt s lula brazils equivalent of Julian Assange . Do you remember him . Like it, john. Eleanor no. He is free only as long as he is beyond the reach of the law. He is an historic figure. He is not some character that leased documents. You were putting money on whether he can dodge the bullet when it comes to heal prosecution i would put my mine lula. Y on clarence assange was involved in something larger than himself. About are talking sanctuary of sorts offered by the law there in brazil. Other than that, the similarities fade. Depending too much on trade with china. Beware. Hree, lookers my budget includes more than 19 billion for cybersecurity one is up by more than third. John hackers. Personal ealing information such as credit card or Social Security numbers or innovative e developments of u. S. Companies or copying u. S. Government hackers are waging constant with the United States. Attackers work independently. Some for criminal organizations. Like for governments those of china, iran and russia. Resident obama responded to criticism that his administration has done too hackers. O counter so he requested 19 billion to the u. S. Governments Information Technology infrastructure. Funds, he says, are crucial for security. Ns what is the most Effective Response to hacking, more cyber y or more deterrence . There you go, clarence. Clarence i will take one of john. The fact is that chasing the because s complicated they are always coming up with new techniques and methods every need to be guarded in both ways, both preventing them being able in apnd to detect what they are doing nd be able to use it to our advantage when we can, especially when we have overseas vernments. Seizure security didnt stop 22 million o. P. M. Files china. Ing looked by cyber deterrence should be tried. Counterhacking policy today analogous to ounterterrorist policy before 9 11 . Too reliant on Law Enforcement . Pat buchanan . Pat you are dealing with china, ou are dealing with governmental hacking. You have got to have the ability counterattack what they are doing. Proliferation of all of these i. T. s and rest of the ability of these young kids and people to break through it, i think there enormous problem ongoing and something in which the nited states and russia and these other countries are all going to have an interest in reventing and blocking and protecting what weve got going in these countries because the the advanced countries are most vulnerable. Eleanor the new front tear for defense spending. I think the administrations response is to sort of let folks we know oing it know they are doing it. And you send back little messages. Into a full getting cyber warfare. Tom they are not reading the little messages. To take em is we have more of a stance in deterring them. Ae chinese are playing us for joke, the president signs an agreement with them and they break it. 19 is president obamas billion Cybersecurity Budget too late, little, yes or no . Pat i think it is far more than it was. Accurate but i do not know. Eleanor i think that he ought of the le to get it out congress if he can get anything out of the congress that should be it. Need e need it but we people to stop using personal email. Donald that like trumps wall should it be 10 feet tampa or 30 feet tall. Shouldnt be wasteful. John i will buy that. Issue four. Voters. Theft in the t history of the world. China. Is needing i dont know why he says something very mean. John in 2012 both president ial barack obama and mitt declared support for free trade but there year things are different. Hey, hey, ho, ho, fast track has to go. Republican and Democratic Party front runners donald trump and Hillary Clinton oppose president obamas free transpacific E Partnership or t. In. Jobs ing it will shift overseas and damage the u. S. Domestic economy. The white house and on capitol hill free trade as the election gets closer. Become p. May politically toxic. Against oters turning free trade . Pat buchanan . The they have seen consequence of 25 years which e deindustrial used america and us tens of thousands of factories and millions of created obs and terrible Economic Conditions in the key states of ohio, michigan pennsylvania and illinois. These are the states that could decide the president ial election and donald trump is warning to he trade deficits both parties produced and disasters in these parts of the country. Think that issue i if donald trump could win the president ial election, that is and ne he would win it on where he would win it. Eleanor that would get him some call reagan ed to democrats and blue collar works in these states. Of the recent round primaries Bernie Sanders won michigan on trade against Illary Clinton but it didnt bring ohio along for pwaoerpdz. Hypocrisy on this issue in 2008. Arack obama said he would renegotiate and a half that and never went near it. I think that theres a lot of Hillary Clinton, while shes opposed to the t. P. P. Or the moment, if she president she might evolve on that particular issue. Is responsible for a lot of these losses but there at so many other dynamics work and you cannot put up a wall around the United States that are ating rules beneficial to the u. S. And not is hina or what the t. P. P. About. Tom one reason for the popular bernie is trump and too long conservatives who avored free trade ant articulated the real specifics and i think they are pretty obvious why it is beneficial. In manifestly saved American Families tens of in terms of reducing consumer good prices. Number two it has forced roductivity increases and forced the United States to invest in economic things where well. What does china import from the United States. Integrated circuits and aircraft. Helicopters. The question becomes as a country what do we want the next generation to be building . Do we want to make tshirts or to sell at high prices as the Global Economy is richer the goods we have a comparative advantage. Boeingy do you think the planes get the wings made . In japan. Even your lie tech things are teches look at your country. Tom if you see t. P. P. One thing that i would agree you have a oint is the protection against patents so we have the ability them. P pat patents. Clarence i agree about liberals have nd not done a good job of explaining the benefits of trade. What the consequences nafta. A half pat can you explain the and a half that in the fall. Stkpwh clarence we talked about why americans turned against fair trade. Workers are complaining about trade policy for years but for the first time theres a leader to say it, donald trump, who has become a spokesperson it. Eleanor his argument is he how the system works so he will change it . I dont think so. Prediction. HIllary Clinton will secure the up ssary delegates to lock their partys nomination before donald an frontrunner trump and trump will lock up the knowledge nation before the convention. Pat. Pat the Hillary Clinton is if she can defeat comey. Director but with regard to the republicans i do believe despite hat everyone says trump will have enough delegates to go over the top before he arrives at for an exciting convention. Him and maybe for trump. Tom yes to hillary. Trump will but i think pat is right on the f. B. I. Thing john landslider. Clarence i say yes on both. John the essence a double yes delegates first then trump does it before g. O. P. Convention. Byebye byebye. Hello, and welcome to kqed newsroom. Im scott shafer in for thuy vu. Our editors pick of bay area music, arts, and theatre for april. Plus, is the drought over . Paul rogers will join us for an update on the sierra snow pack and what it means for water conservation. Also, kqed investigates the death of two mentally ill inmates at the Santa Clara County jail. But before we get to that, another first for the nation in california. Governor jerry brown is scheduled to travel to los angeles monday when hell sign legislation raising californias minimum wage to 15 an hour by the year 2022. Isk