And by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. Thank you. The viral video showing dr. David dau being drabd dragged off that United Airlines fight getting attention from everywhere. They filed a complaint with the company which forced united hire black pilots of oufr guests tonight along with 20 others have filed a complaint alleging black pilots continue to face barriers within the Airline Industry. Captain Ken Han Rhode islandny received a bronze star for hairism for combat in the gulf war. He not only flies for united but started his own airline and captainon knee e. Jet jones served in the air force like my daddy and is behind united we stand coalition. Captains, im honored to have you on this program. Thank you. Every time i see you i stop and say he will low because i see so you frequently. Whenever i see a black pilot i stop and salute because its so rare to see and i just know how you had to climb up the rough side of the mountain just to get to where you are. So thank you for your service to our country and what you do for United Airline. Thank you. Let me start by asking how each of you felt when you saw the video. We know how the kroechltd of your company felt and we know the stumble that he made trying to get his statement together and get it right. I know other persons who work for united who felt some chagrin and embarrassment that this happened to their airline but youre the ones that fly us around every day. Howd you feel when you saw a guy being dragged off of one of your planes. Personally for me i was somewhat shocked and wanted to figure out a way on my own to see how i could help the company get through it. Because what a lot of people dont know is that thats a United Express flight and not main line united. But, still, united owns it. They have to oewn the problem. So the koechceo was on the spot did his best to get through it. But the incense activity is somewhat, you know, apparent in that situation. And so eventually they got it right. Captain haney howd you feel when you saw that video . I was a little bit embarrassed. My position as a captain, safeguard passengers, safeguard the flight, get the passengers to their destination and back safely. I was embarrassed and like jet jones here, i took it personal and i thought what i could do to help the airlines public image a little better. And that is to, as kaptsds, where he want 10 to gauge our customers and passengers and talk to them and, you know, try to explain certain situations. Yeah. Why that happened, if we know, and just try to im curious to the concern that both of you have shared about wanting to figure out a way to help the airline did you find yourself doing anything differently, over the intercom, walk down the aisles . Do you feel any pressure or do anything differently since you said you wanted to do your part to help the align . What it was like on your plane the next couple of days . For me it was like walking on eggshells. Yeah. Yeah. And just hoping that nothing nothing else ai arose that would bring more. On your flights. On your flights, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And ironically i read in the wall street journal where the chairman of the board actually encouraged employees to come up with ideas to make the airline better. And so, you know, ive written a few letters. Yeah. To the ceo and trying to give my input and, you know, like, you know, i just i have such passion for the airline and wanting it to be better that, you know, im just waiting for word back. Yeah. I suspect in your lifetime youve written a few letters. Yeah trying to get some justice but well cover that a little bit letter. Youve got do two things, fly planes and write letters. Captain haney anything different on your flight. Sure. The passengers dont see us a lot. Were locked in the flight deck there behind closed doors. The Flight Attendants do a good job, they deal with the passengers. The last thing you remember as a passenger when you get off the airplane is the service that that Flight Attendant gave you. I mean, theyre the service of the airline. And whether or not you have a smooth landing or not. Exactly. So ive talked to the Flight Attendants be extra diligent, which they do a good job, take care of the passengers. If they notice anything, you know, just they bring it to our attention on the flight deck if we need to help them out. But they do a good job dealing with the passengers. Im glad we finally found time four guys to fly yourselves out here to l. A. To be a part of this conversation, becausing this consent i mentioned with united being forced to hire black pilots back in the 70s, this is a longstanding issue. This lawsuit that you and others have filed for respect inside of the Airline Industry and particularly at united is nothing new. It preceded the dragging of dr. Dau through the aisles. I want to be clear as i set the stage here that this is not a new problem. How have you nav gated all these years working in an industry and let me be clear you rntd the only ones who work in an industry who have to fight for respect, i know from a couple things in my own career and i know what that journey is like. How have you navigate the in an industry thats not been quite welcoming for black pilots . Personally for me i grew newspaper a small town called americas georgia and i was involved in several marches as a small child, and it stuck with me that there was a reason for that. And so i joined the naacp several years ago and actually became a branch president. And so i my activism through the naacp led me to get a resolution passed to ask united to or in support of more diversity and advancement in United Airlines and other airlines because its an industry wide problem. And were just doing like marlon green who had to sue all the way to the Supreme Court to get hired at Continental Airlines which now merged with united. We look at that picture from the screen now, theres a plane that bears his name now. Tell me a bit more about marlon green and what he had to go through. Well. They say that he who breaks through the brush first gets the thorns. I know he had a lot of thorns trying to break through. Yes, did he. Im reading his book, the book thats written about him called turbulence before take off right now. And its amazing the parallels between him and me and what ive gone through. And i enlisted in the air force because i couldnt get to the air force academy or through pilot or through officer school. And so i worked my way up from the bottom using general Daniel Chappie jones as my here row, first black fourstar general in the air force. So when i got to united and had an encounter with a captain that asked me do we have white pilots anymore, and he had notice that there was more black pilots getting hired. Hold on. Hold the phone. This is a white pilot asking you. Yes. Do we hire anymore white pilots . Right. I was on a probationary check ride and i said i think so and i went ahead and done my job. Come to find out this white pilot was from my hometown of americas georgia, and his family owned a restaurant that we couldnt eat in. No way. Yes, sir. Thats a small world. Yes. You went ahead and did your job as black foal being have been doing this for years. You keep your head down and you do your work. Yeah. But how emotionally did you process that as your welcome to the company . Well, i told myself a long time ago growing up in the south, under jim crow laws that theres not a whole lot you can do about it by acting out, you just show people that you can do the job and you can do it better than anybody else. Yeah. And thats what i did. Yeah. And thats what i continue to do. But, i can only imagine even with all the technology, technological advances where we tease and laffer and say the planes basically fly themselves and you all are taking naps up in the sock pit until you wake up and land the plane thats a joke. But all jokes aside, theres an extreme amount of pressure on pilots. Yeah. You have a lot of lives in your hands and i never take this lightly. I say a prayer every time i take off and i thank you god prarm every time i land. I travel all the time because its never lost on me that from takeoff to landing weve ooen even seen incidents where people where the planes have land and have incidents on the runway after they get on the ground and people still die. Im grateful every time i land and can walk off the terminal in one piece. But its never lost on me the pressure every pilot has when he or she is trying to get people from one destination to another safely. But it seems to me theres another level of pressure that a black pilot must face when youre not feeling welcome in the company, when youre not feeling respected in the cockpit, when people are saying nasty things to you. How do you navigate that pressure . Well, for me, its just been the faith in god, faith in myself. And i dont know, i just i just have a just ability to just power through anything. And i i basically pride myself on making smooth landings. Thats my goal, because if i make a smooth landing, everybody gets to go home. Yeah. Captain haney, your journey, so we know how captain jet jones got in the cockpit when he first showed up the were they a little nicer to you . One thing i noticed, and i pointed this out to some of my crew several times, its not just in Corporate America or just at uknighted, its in the public also. When the passengers get off the airplane and were parked at the gate, the captain, if theyre not in a hurry they get in the doorway of the flight deck and they say bye, wave bye, and sometimes the copilots standing next to them, we give each other room saying bye to the passengers. And i notice that when they get off the plane, even though i have my captains hat on and i clearly got four stripes, they look directly they dont even look my way. They look directly at him or the Flight Attendant and say thank you for the flight, thank you. Rarely i do get a direct look, unless we have ive been in a few emergencies and end up bricking the plane down safely and then i get a bunch of hukz and claps. Everybodys happy then. You know, but just normal flights, i have noticed that, that i dont get eye contact. Its almost like i wouldnt e wasnt there. Ive said so many times on this program over the years that as human beings we all want the same things, black, brown, white, yellow, urban, suburban, rich, poor, we all want the same thing as human beings and thats to be loved, respected, appreciated and acknowledged. I dont care if you deny it till the cows come hope, everybody wants to loved, respected appreciated and acknowledged. I sense thats a part of human condition so that when you are standing in the cockpit and passengers are walking off the plane and they wont even give you eye contact to say thank you, hows that make you feel . You know, i dont take it personally. How do you not . Well, i get the satisfaction of knowing i did my job. And it could be that military attitude where were mission oriented, i get to point a to point brks b, people get off the plane safe, thats my satisfaction. Ignorance on the other part of people, i dont worry about that. Thats on them. I know im satisfied knowing that i did whats right, that i got them there safe, that i did my job, i earned my pay, and i leave it at that. Were trained to handle a lot of stress in the cockpit, in the military we deal with a whole lot. These sort of things of, you know, not being looked in the eye or not being recognized, im not in it for the glory for that, thats fine. I know theres some satisfaction in there that i got them to point a to b because when they get to their families you had a good flight in yeah. Although they didnt mention me, i know i had a part in that. So im good with that. How many times you thought about quitting over the years . And when i say quitting, i dont mean just throwing in the towel and walking away with your head down but quitting in the sense that youre just tired of having to fight, youre tired of having to beat your head against the wall every single day . Not even a thought. Never a thought. Never a thought. They never thought about quitting reall know what they went through. The thought of quitting would be letting them down. Im hear here because of them. What i think about Martin Luther thing king, the thought of quitting never entered his mind. So for me to even think that way or to give up or hold my head down, thats not happening because id be letting them down. They gave me the opportunity to be here and were going to do it for the next generation. Yeah, and to piggyback on that, thats my goal of sticking around for the those who are coming after me. Those who i mean, im sure ken has the same experience, you have people that want to they call you up, i had a call just earlier from a guy that was knew my sister that he wants to become an air force pilot and so i said, yeah, ill help you out. And thats what somebody did for me. And so its about, with the company and the aviation i can bring people along, and thats why we want to be able to move up to management because if youre not if youre not in a place of influence or Decision Making or help people in a place of Decision Making that look like you, youre not going to get that same sensitivity of someone saying, yeah, lets give him a try. Why, then,s that been so hard for balack pilots to work their way into management at united or other airlines to work their way up . It kinds kind of remiepds me that we experienced for years in sports, negros were good enough to play but you couldnt manage. Good enough to play but you couldnt work in the front office. So here we are pilots still facing the same thing. You go do the heavy lifting every day, get people safe place to place, but theres still this disconnect. Why does that dynamic still exist . Well, its finn funny you mention that because i tried i wrote a letter to. I cant imagine that. Imagine that,on knee jet jones wrote a letter. I wrote a letter to bob johnson who helped introduce the roney rule in football and in sports and i wanted the airlines to adopt that same policy. And. For those of you dont know the roney rule, when professional football teams have a vacancy and their coaching the rooney rule basically says that you have to interview black coaches in the process of selecting who your next coach is going to be the nebraska they may not get the job but they must interview African American coaches for the slot. Okay, thats the rooney rule. So i didnt get a response, but, you know, thats okay. Bobs busy. And, you know, business being a billionaire. So, you know, maybe hell see this broadcast and he will he wont see this. Thats a whole other conversation. Thats inside baseball. Anyway im sorry. Go ahead. Well, maybe will see it. Somebody will see it and tell bob about it. But anyway, go ahead. Anyway, by hook or crook, you know, well do you think do you think that would work at united . I really do. Because, you know, applied for, like, 25 positions and i think i got two interviews. And if you just give me the opportunity to show you what i have and show others of color of African Americans what we have to offer, you know, and maybe youll see something that would help the airline. Im not naive in asking this question, but why, after all these years, are these airlines still so resistant to that . Still so resistant not just to a plethora of black folk flying planes but again going into management . What are they scared snf why are they so resistant . Well, its always to me like wherever the money is, you know, these executives get paid well and so they guard those positions. The better the money the harder it is to get in. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And also the influence. The Decision Making, you know, when the Consent Decree was enforced, we had blacks that were moving up. We had one captain who was a fleet captain for the triple 7 and the 747, and i dont think any of the airline had a person of color in that position. And he was, you know, i think he was definite tiend to move on up. Next thing i know, he was back flying as a regular captain. And so that prompted me to write a letter. Yeah. Yeah. Captain haney, how did you process the fact that, again, all these years later we still have to use the court system to get any modicum of justice . This is not new for the African Americans that weve got documents that will we werent even mentioned. So here we still now are with relying on the court system to try and get some justice. Why cant your service be enough . Why do you have to take them to court to get some respect . And thats a shame because we have such a strong background. A lot of us are out of the military, rerose through the ranks. You dont have that Glass Ceiling so much in the military as you do out in Corporate America and the Airline Industry now. Weve risen through the ranks in the military and we come qualified more so than most nonpeople of color, you know, people not of color. And but its a shame that we tro use the court system still as we had back in history nothing has changed on that. So because we cant rise through the ranks, and corporate for me, i set out, i decided to start my own airline then. I cant rise in management, ill start my own airline. And thats exactly what i did. And now i sponsor people of color that want to be a pilot, i pay for them for flying lessons through my company and thats how. Which is. Im able to give back. Whats the name of your company . Since youre on national television. Texas air shuttle and the bay area shuttle. Im expanding out here to california this summer. How has united responded . Ive seen this ive been trying to follow this as best i can. But in short how has united responded to this lawsuit . Well, they have youve not been punished or treated badly . No, theyve treated us fairly, in my opinion. However, what we would like as a united we stand for diverse stit sity in the coalition is a sitdown with the ceo and Senior Management and say, look, this is what were asking for. Just like, you know, we talked about the rooney rule, we just want like james brown said, i dont want nobody to give me nothing, just open up the door, ill get it myself. To each his own. Yeah. And ill show what you were worth. And you cant seem to get that . No. You cant get that meeting . Cant get that meeting. We just want to the help the airline. We want to help the airline grow. Theres so much diversity out there. And thats all thats all were trying to do. What is it that the public can do to aid and abet you in this effort . And i ask that because it was the public that put united in check when they saw that video. Right. And i suspect when people see this conversation and realize that it wasnt just a person of color being dragged down the aisles, but there are other people being dragged around by these airlines who fly for them and are still being dragged around and not being given the respect that they deserve, what if is it that an average citizen and customers can do to help you. You help us all the time, how can we help you . Well im a United Airline stockholder and buy stock in the company and that gives you a right to explain or to voice your opinion. And, you know, back in the civil rights days when affirmative action was big, there was this thing about, you know, the Company Management throughout should mirror the population of the people. And so thats what were trying to get to. But if you look at the Management Structure at united. You cant guess closer to parody. Right. You can find out more about the strug that will captain jones and haney are engaging in right now and read about their federal complaint. Matter of fact you can read the federal complaint on coalitions website on united we stand for diversity. Com. I couldnt get into all of it tonight but i want you to see for yourselves of what theyre alleging and asking for of United Airlines. So there you have. Thank you for your service. Honor to have you on this program. Thank you for flying yourself out. Save me a little money, i appreciate that. We are with new solidarity and you are welcome back here in the future to let us know how this is coming on. Thats our show for tonight thanks for watching and as always keep the faith. F for more information opt show, visit tavis smiley pbs. Org. 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