Development worker warren weinstein, who was kidnapped by al qaeda in 2011. And 39yearold Italian Development worker giovanni lo porto, who was kidnapped al qaeda in 2012. This week we learned that both men were accidentally killed in a c. I. A. Dren strike in january. Heres how it happened. The c. I. A. Spotted an al qaeda safe house in pakistan and closely monitored it. Judging senior Al Qaeda Leaders to be present, the c. I. A. Attacked. And while the drone killed a number of al qaeda terrorists, including an al qaeda leader and an american fighter for the group, mr. Weinstein and mr. Lo porto were later found to have been hidden in the building. Al qaeda had made sure the hostages couldnt be seen by u. S. Surveillance efforts. President obama apologized for the loss of life. President obama as president and as commanderinchief, i take full responsibility for all our counterterrorism operations, including the one that inadvertently took the lives of warren and giovanni. I profoundly regret what happened. On behalf of the United States government i offer our deepest apologies to the families. John question is this accident a wakeup call to reform the c. I. A. s counterterrorist Drone Program . Pat buchanan . Pat no, i dont think so, john. You certainly should review it but i dont think reform it necessarily. Look, these drones are really indispensable weapons in a war against terror, especially in a war in which the enemy yupes no nomans land. This war has less Collateral Damage than any war weve ever had. John, when you were a young man we took out dresden took out 250,000 people, american p. O. W. s were right there in dresden. We didnt know about it. Kurt vonnegut wrote slaughterhousefive about it. Whether you agree or disagree with the war this is an indispensable weapon and you cant give it up. John senator Dianne Feinstein wants the whole program stem to stern to be analyzed. Pat well, you can never stop doing that, but the idea of giving it up is why not an impossibility if you are going to fight terrorism. John mccain would like to give it up, too. Eleanor i agree with pat theyre not going to give up the Drone Program. The think the president is ambivalent about these socalled signature drone strikes. You find targets and they appear to be muslimlooking men who are gathering and you make assumptions and if you can get to near certainty, you go ahead. But near certainty is not absolute certain certainty. But i think president obama owns the Drone Program even though it began under president bush. He has pushed it forward and i think the next president is either going to continue that or have second thoughts. John two of the targets in this weeks drone strikes, adam gadahn and ahmed farouq, held u. S. Citizenship. Does it trouble you that the president can order u. S. Citiizens killed by drone attacks . I ask you, tom. Tom no. Because the reality is that these people have chosen to join a group that plots to kill as many civil yaverpbs as it can, that has been doing that. The reality is that the signature profiling in terms of strikes, its more than seeing people and thinking that they look like nate iveks to the particular area. Its about networks, the areas theyve been visiting. The nature of the threat is you have to address these people. Good example google a pakistani man killed in a drone strike but it later turned out they knew he was involved in the 2006 translate atlantic plot. If he had been killed he would have killed thousands of people. John is there a political incentive for the president to take full responsibility . Clarence of course. At the same time, this question about shooting or killing a u. S. Citizen, we wouldnt have this argument if we actually had a formally declared war. Since we dont, its really untested legal ground whether a president can legally do what is already being done and p i dont know how you take it to court. Normally you take it to court and in this case the victim is dead. Eleanor if the targets are pat youre exactly right, this is the responsibility of congress. What are we doing in yemen . What are we doing in syria and iraq . Im not sure weve got authority under the congress of the United States. Eleanor well, the congress timely confirmed Loretta Lynch after five months. I wouldnt hold your breath for their action on this. But when americans are the focus of a proposed really, these are assassinations by drone attack theis supposed to be higher. The Justice Department is supposed to sign offer. I dont know whether they did. I think these were two separate strikes. Pat did they know they were americans they were hitting . Eleanor thats a separate issue. Clarence adam may have known he was a target and he certainly suspected he was. Pat the other mans son was killed as Collateral Damage. John what is the trend in historical experience regarding military technology and the frequency and deady license of deadliness of wars . Pat these are astonishingly precise weapons. What the americans do now in war is far, far december less look what happened in world war ii we killed thousands of japanese and in vietnam, 2,000, the christmas bombing, less than 2,000 killed. Its less and less every war we have. Eleanor you have to ask yourself compared to what . Any president if given the choice between drones and putting young men and women in harms way would choose drones. Tom exactly. We have no other options. What are we going to do, send a team over there that would create much more political toxin . You know . John president obama likes unmanned military technologists. And this is one of them. Locust. Lowcost uav swarm technology. A new program of the u. S. Navy. Locust is a system that launches 30 combat drones for both defensive and offensive military operations. This u. S. Military video shows the High Expectations u. S. Commanders have for locust. The swarm is shown attacking multiple targets with great effectiveness. But some fear that this is just another dangerous step towards the future of war, easier war, war in which the political dimensions of human casualties are disregarded and thus war made more palatable. And its not just aerial drones that are changing war. In a recent wall street journal oped, Gabriela Blum and Benjamin Wittes paint a future of unpredictable risk. Quote, your business competitor has sent a robotic attack spider bought from a bankrupt military contractor to take you out. Your assassin, who is vacationing in provence, will direct the spider to shoot an infinitesimal needle containing a lethal dose of poison into your left leg and then selfdestruct. Unquote. Will the new military technology do more harm than good . Tom i think a key area is the framework for the u. S. Military, where are we appropriating money . John what other areas is the u. S. Testing . Tom rail guns. Unmanned pat electronic pulse to shoot down missiles. Its a great idea. Eleanor you can flood the zone with mosquito drones. My favorite. Delooks i want to see what happens when clarence i want to see what happens when china russia, other countries have the drones, too. It is going to change the whole debate. Pat one problem john, those huge aircraft carry yirs are going to be much much more vulnerable themileanhour get these tiny weapons that cant be detected. John is commander in chief obama himself president obama conventional air power or missiles are far less precise than drones and are likely to cause more civilian casualties and more local outrage. And invasions of these territories lead us to be viewed as occupying armies unleash a torrent of unintended consequences, are difficult to contain, result in large numbers of civilian casualties and ultimately empower those who thrive on violent conflict. John do you share the president s view on conventional air power versus drones . Im asking you because youre from chicago, clarence page. Clarence i think drones are like any other weapon of war. They have to be evaluated on their own merit or demerit but theyre going to stay. John issue two china and pakistan. The chinapakistan economic corridor is the backbone. The energy and the transport construction infrastructure and the construction of gwadar port are the arms and legs. John that was chinas ambassador to pakistan. This week chinese president xi jinping traveled to pakistan and confirmed 50 billion worth of trade deals. The more than two dozen projects range from the field of energy to Port Development to defense to transport to cultural centers. To a new submarine for the pakistan navy. In turn, signaling pakistans desire to consolidate stronger relations with its neighbor, president jinping will be awarded pakistans highest civilian honor. At although many in pakistan welcome the deals, others are concerned, note notably india thewitnessing chinas desire to expand its influence across asia and into the indian ocean independent jas government feels increasingly threatened. The United States shares concern. After all, with china throwing its weight globally, some american strategists fear chinas pakistan arrangement weakens american security. For one example as to why, just listen to how pakistans ambassador to china describes how china will use the port. Uses this artery, uses this route to go out to the middle east, to central asia, and africa. Because in terms of distance by using the gwadarkashka route, this link, china will be saving about 6,000 kilometers of distance, maybe more, actually. So this is the benefit which both countries realize will occur and its a longerterm strategic vision. John weve got a China Alliance with pax pakistan the is chinas alliance a cause for american concern . Tom i think we have to be prudent. The quad ar gwadar port is clearly designed to exert chinese political power, to be able to have their navy go there and challenge the United States for hegemony in the region on. But we talk about pakistan and the u. S. Tensions there and drones. The Chinese Government is very aggressive against the weaker population. It shows the level of political corruption the degree to which america antilism, wealth, rules. They get their money and they get whatever they want. John if you were counseling the president in regards to china, what would you tell him . Tom i would tell him we need submarines. Pat theyve got weight because theyve got 3 trillion in cash reserves as a consequence of their trade with the United States. Theyre making themselves the economic power in asia, the Industrial Power in asia and the Strategic Power in asia and eventually theyre going to displace the United States and pakistan which is a nextdoor neighbor to them and 8,000 miles from the United States. Thats the future, john. Eleanor its a hugely ambitious project. Theyre basically constructing it over land and sea, the new silk road that connects europe and asia. When the u. S. Put in i think 7 billion or 9 billion in 2009 when obama first came in they put in infrastructure com thats a pittance compared to what the tchoins are doing. Overall i think its a good thing for anybody. I think the pakistanis are not going to be anybodys reliable ally and if they put this this money in and help pakistan become a more stable, wealthy company country, its for everybodys go good. John aside from protecting its oil importsflt middle east, why else is china interested in this port . Do you happen to know . Clarence it does have a high strategic interest. I look at what theyre doing in africa theyve become a leading developer across subsaharan africa. If the United States did it, it would be called clinton colonialism. Eleanor people are beginning to catch on that the chinese chinese dont create jobs, they bring their own pime, they plunder the land, dont worry about the environment. Tom exactly. John is carolina still the biggest holder of u. S. Debt . Pat no. Japan is. But together theyve got 2. 5 trillion they hold in our debt the john did you say trillion . Pat this is a product of free trade while the chinese practice economic nationalism. The chinese are doing to us what we did to the British Empire in the 19th century. Its as clear as day. John issue three. Europes shame . I do not expect any quickfix solutions to the root causes of migration because there are none. Had they existed, we would have used them long ago. But i do expect that the commission and the European External Action Service will present options for immediate action. John thats donald tusk, the European Council president. This year 1,500 migrants have lost their lives attempting to cross the Mediterranean Sea from africa to italy. Relying on ramshackle boats and the whims of human smugglers migrant who dare to cross the mediterranean face great danger. And the human costs are often severe. Last weekend, an estimated 900 people lost their lives when their ships sank off the libyan coast. This growing crisis has brought much unwanted attention onto European Union officials. With underfunded navies and coast guards and domestic populations deeply hesitant about illegal immigration, e. U. Nations have long lacked the means and the will to tackle this problem head on. But get this in 2015, the e. U. Has actually cut the rescue force saving lives at sea. Thats infuriated many activists. Nobody leaves their country in search of snow. They leave because theres war theres trouble, and what do they want . They want to be treated as human beings. They want to live with dignity and work like any human being. John ok, question. What does this crisis tell you about the state of the European Union . Clarence page . Clarence a couple things. One, theyre not as united as they would like to be. One big issue you will hear is trying the share the burden of these boat people coming across the mediterranean. Right now its italy, greece, spain carrying most of the burden but across europe youve got a resurgence of far right populism in the midst of economic troubles still lingering and there is is not the same support for high numbers of refugees like we got say with southeast asia. John why is the death toll rising . Clarence because theyve run out of good boats. The fact is all the safe boats are long gone from libya. They take anything floating now. Pat people fleeing from wars, john, are coming endlessly and europe has to no way to stop them. Europe is aging shrinking and die, its populations. Europe simply has no way morally, physically, to stop what is coming. This is what was called tom it was the it was called the pat buchanan scenarioio eleanor and if europe figures out how to you settle these people they would no longer be aging and running out of new blood. They would be americanizing themselves the john can you argue the case that increasing the e. U. Coast guard patrols to rescue stranded migrant will only make the problem worse by encouraging them to cut loose even more unsea worthy boats . Jon they tried that in october. They felt it was a pull factor, encouraging people to go. But more people are coming. Theyre not figuring out am i safe . Unsafe . Whats the risk . Theyre just going for it. The center of the chaos now is john weve got to eleanor excuse me. Is libya where we bear some responsibility for the collapse of that society i think the u. S. Has responsibility here as well as the e. U. Clarence im going to squeeze in very quickly. The european idea of social welfare, they didnt spend on defense, they clearly dont care about these people and theyve allowed them to drown. Its a disgrace. Thats it. John issue four iran versus the u. S. Shipship . The president continues to be concerned about the instability of iran sbeerfering with the freedom of nave igation and the free flow of commercial commerce in the gulf of aden. And there are u. S. Military resources in the gulf of aden to try to protect those two priorities. John White House Press secretary josh earnest is talking about the u. S. S. Theodore roosevelt. Its a nimitz class Aircraft Carrier operated by around 6,000 sailors and marines. To get an understanding of the scailing of this ship, it serves 18,150 meals a day. The Theodore Roosevelt forms a heart of forms the heart of Carrier Strike group 12, which includes a cruiser, destroyers and possibly also a hunterkiller submarine, sometimes deployed to defend 9 the fleet. The Theodore Roosevelt strike group is operating off the coast of yemen, and it may be ordered to stop iranian vessels from supplying weapons to houthi rebel forces in yemen. The white house is refusing to rule out future action against iranian vessels. Im not going to speculate about any future events that may or may not occur. But it is possible for the United States to be justifiably concerned about protecting the freedom of navigation and the free flow of commerce in this volatile region of the world while ensuring that the arms embargo that the u. N. Has put in place is one to which that everybody takes seriously. John whatever president obama decides to do, the risks involved here are great. If the Houthi Rebels are able to defeat saudi arabias military campaign, they may seize control of yemen. But thats not the only danger the irans navy is taking increasingly public and aggressive stems to debtor u. S. Military action Iranian Forces recently sank a mock american Aircraft Carrier. The footage was played proudly on iranian television. What did you think of that description . Tom lacrosse the iranian navy, a convoy has actually turned around and gone back to iran. Reflects well on the iranian government that they want to avoid a conflict with saudi arabia. But what they will do is simply put the arms on planes and back into yemen. In reality, this is what is happening. Again, the reality in the middle east is the is sectarianism between iran and saudi arabia and its very bad because its destabilizing across the region. John before the Saudi Bombing Campaign began, the iranians had increased daily flights between sanaa and the and tehran from two flights daily before the houthi coup to 28 flights daily. Were these weapons shipments . Pat no, i dont think so. The former dictator brought brought his segment armed with 500 million worth of Good American weapons, to the houthies and they took over the country but theyve been stopped in aden. Iran doesnt want a confrontation with the United States. The real foolish mistake is saudi arabia trying to starting to bomb people and to put a puppet on the throne. John all sides are at pains to deny that there is a proxy war underway between iran and saudi arabia over yemen. Are those denials credible . Eleanor its proxy light because i dont think either side really wants to get into a fullblown confrontation and the saudis did bite off more than they could handle with the Bombing Campaign and the answer here is a powersharing arrangement where the houthies are going to have to have some voice in government. Jorvingwhy the fig leaf . Why doesnt the white house explain in plain english the real racing mission of the u. S. S roosevelt . Clarence i was in yemen a few years ago and i said this place has the potential of being more important strategically. I think the how thies are starting to cut deals now to be able to pick up diplomacy where the old regime left off but the country now has the potential of being split once again into north and south yemen. John what about north and south, saudi arabia reducing it to rubble . Pat thats also why the fleet is there. Jocx predictions . Eleanor hillary in the hot seat now over campaign noin. Jeb bush next. Tom Hillary Clinton is going to have to make a statement with records to the russians and the uranium. John brishe Prime Minister cameron will eke out a victory in his may 7 reelection bid. Bye bye next on newsroom crowded, smelly, dirty. Doesnt stick to its schedule. Ill put it that way. Frustrated passengers and aging transit system. Wed love to expand service. We havent got the money to do that, but were trying creative things. Making Public Transit work, now. Good evening and welcome to kqed newsroom. Im thuy vu. We all know that getting around the bay area can be difficult. Traffic is a mess, and Public Transportation isnt always easy. On tonights show, were going to look at what is and is not working with the bay areas biggest Public Transit system. In a moment, ill talk with