Making it to the professional level afterwards . Sports like soccer are played from a young age, and students like felix petermann, goalie for the san jose state soccer team, says continuing to play was the right decision. I made the decision many, many years ago that i wanted to take that risk. That i wanted to go pro. Play professional soccer. Just because i think what is better to do than making your biggest passion, making work out of it. Making your money out of it . Lacrosse is another physical sport that is found on san jose state grounds. It also poses threats like concussions. While the risks are there, team sports like lacrosse teach discipline. And some players say its worth putting their bodies on the line. When you play a team sport, you learn discipline. You learn teamwork. You learn other things that you dont really get outside in the open world, unless you go out and look for it. And on a team, you just you kind of learn to Work Together for a common goal. Despite numerous concussions and injuries, san jose state rugby player, jonathan gloria, says that creating more of a social life for himself, and staying busy have made the risks worth playing. If it werent for rugby, like, id probably just be like staying at home since like my freshman year of high school, just like not going out. Not making any friends. Like now, every time, like i step on the states, like, i cant take two steps without like, seeing somebody i know. Perhaps the sport that most people consider dangerous, especially recently with news regarding concussions is football. Football is arguably, the most physical sport one can play, and some doctors say the risk of injury is as great, if not greater, compared to other sports. San jose state head football coach, ron caragher, says that while injuries happen, he is confident in the medical staff that protects his players. We do take great caution. With that, im very confident with our athletic Training Staff and our Sports Medicine group. Our physicians, and the protocols that we have in place. So that our players can be educated. That they can recover fully before they return to the field. The benefit of fame, and a lifelong dream, is enough for some Football Players to take that risk. The feeling that you get, you know, stepping out in front of people and doing something you really, you know, care about. And has been part of your life for so long. People id say people would definitely take that risk. Football players may feel the brunt of their playing days later in life. But some players say that precautionary measures are being taken now. Football is a game that you can only play for so long. But definitely the benefits outweigh the risks. And the injuries thatll come up, ive taken pretty good care of my body. Ive been getting a lot of preventative treatment and strengthening. So im not really concerned with that in the future either. While some students are willing to sacrifice themselves for the thing that they love most which is sports some coaches and medical professionals are wary of the risk. Well show you why when we return. [ music ] welcome back. Weve seen that student athletes believe playing a sport is well worth the risk. But now well learn what about the negative aspects, and potential outcomes for those looking to become professional athletes. Cristian ponce continues our coverage. While the risks might be worth the rewards for a lot of student athletes at san jose state, the chances of these players making it to the professional level are fairly slim. And for other sports, it may not be worth the risk in terms of money alone. A study by the ncaa in 2013 shows that only 254 senior Football Players, out of over 15,000 were drafted by an nfl team that year. According to the same study, 101 students out of 5,000 were drafted out of college to play professional soccer. San jose state mens soccer coach, simon tobin says that because of these statistics, he strongly emphasizes education. The percentage even in my 30 years is quite small. So everybody we encourage i know this is just normal speak from a coach but we really do recruit kids to get a degree first, and then hopefully give them the opportunity to become a professional. For lacrosse and rugby, issues on the moneyside of things become more grim. Major League Lacrosse players arent paid very well at all. With the majority of players only making between 10,000 to 25,000 a year. With many of them working other day jobs to supplement their income. In the united states, players in the usa rugby league are treated as amateurs and arent paid. Participating in sports for many years can cause Health Issues later in life. Dr. Lauren hidalgo at san jose state, says she sees problems in former student athletes. Some general, longterm musculoskeletal problems. So it would be primarily knee and back arthritis that people have as a result. Theyre very physically disabled often times. Arthritis is a common side effect. I see some people with shoulder injuries from dislocations that werent addressed when they were an athlete, and now they have looseness in the shoulder, and they also can get osteoarthritis in their shoulder as well. So when you see an athlete, or an exathlete in their, you know, 40s and 50s that are having issues, its almost always from arthritis. Football is arguably the most dangerous sport in todays day and age. Just in the past couple of months in the united states, four High School Players have been killed due to football related injuries [inaudible background conversations]. Football is quite dangerous, because helmets dont really prevent concussions. And so theres a lot of tackling. Its just the nature of the sport predisposes people to head injuries, that they could have more traumatic brain injuries; neck injuries, knee injuries. Due to that, concussions have been a focal point in football for the past couple of years. According to studies, football is the most atrisk sport for concussions. With a 75 chance for a concussion. In football, it is estimated that a player will take anywhere between 900 to 1500 blows to the head per season. The protective gear just does not protect that well from concussions. Because all you really need to do is just really whack your head back and forth to get a concussion. So i think sometimes its as a false sense of security, they wear a helmet, so theyre going to be protected. Many student athletes will continue playing with these statistics in mind. But will they become statistics themselves . When we come back, well talk with experts in sports. And health officials, along with current student athletes. [ music ] welcome back to this edition of equal time. Today were focused on sports injuries, and the impact on sports careers. Lets meet our guests. Hi, my name is jason de muro. Im president for mens lacrosse here at san jose state university. And i had acl surgery five months ago. Hi, my name is felix petermann. Im a senior in the Pr Department here at sjsu. I also play for the spartans Mens Soccer Team, and i had a concussion just a few months ago. Hi. Im lauren hidalgo, and im a primary care physician at the san jose state Student Health center. Hey, im daniel murphy. Im a lecturer and researcher in the department of kinesiology. Hi, im cristian ponce. Im the student corresponder for equal time. Thank you all for being here today, and i thank you for doing this topic. Because its timely. Its important. You know, you look at research online, and you hear 30 million teenagers and young people involved in organized sports, yet 3. 5 million injuries in those organized sports. So im naturally drawn to you felix. I want to ask you about your situation. You talked about having a concussion. What happened . Well i i was in practice, and i got into a collision with one of the forwards on the other team. And yeah, he just knocked me out. I didnt feel much at first, and then after practice i felt a headache, and it didnt go away. So i thought i should just go check it out. And then, yeah, they diagnosed a concussion based on the symptoms i had. Very good. Now your doctor cleared you to go back and play again. And youre very comfortable with that as i understand it . Yes. But you have other medical issues that you have to keep an eye on as well . Yeah, im a type 1 diabetic, so that means i have to make sure i go into practice with a good blood sugar level. And make sure i dont go into low sugar levels, because that could be actually lifethreatening for me if that actually happens. And its difficult, but its manageable. And i enjoy playing sports, so very good. Its not going to stop me. And those of us who enjoy watching you play sports, [background laughter] we want to see you continue. But lauren, when you deal with these types of situations, what do you tell students . Well, it depends on the situation. If youre talking about a concussion or a traumatic brain injury, it depends on the sport, previous history of a concussions, to what degree theyre impacted. Most people with head injuries heal pretty well, but if theyre having problems that may not be obvious. Problems doing their homework. Sleeping at night. Being more emotional than usual. Theres a lot of things that we dont always recognize might be part of a head injury that demands good rest to fully recuperate. And you dont want to risk going in and causing further damage by returning prematurely. So you need the information. You need to know what youre dealing with. But let me ask jason now, when youre dealing with players, or your own injury when you had surgery. This is frightening to hear that these are the things you have to be aware of. I think that theyre kind a lot of facets when you look at Something Like that though i cant think of a single athlete that would go out on the field and not be prepared for the fact that they might get injured. I mean in any sport, whether youre swimming laps in a pool, whether youre running, contact sports; football. You have to know that when you go out there to compete, even just going out to exercise, that theres a risk of getting injured. So i think that you have to be aware that when you begin something, before you can even worry about whether or not youre going to compete, you have to be ready for that. Mmhm. So and parents are watching are dan, and theyre going to probably say, well they dont have to play. Why should they play . You dont have to have a College Experience with football or soccer or anything else. Whats the point . Yeah. I think its about matching the student athletes interest with the sport. And also considering, you know, the level of injury ramps up as we climb what we call the elite pyramid. So as the sport becomes more competitive. As you grow in age. Those risks grow as well. I think you made an interesting point. In sports sociology, its something we call a social contract. You go into sport knowing that will be some sort of injury. As our diagnostic tools get better. As the elitism becomes more intense, were starting to starting to see more injuries. And that line; that Tipping Point now is under contestation under discussion. Yeah. But is that enough to sway these feelings for parents who say, well, my child doesnt have to be in that territory. Why do i want them to play lacrosse or football, or anything else . Well, i think a lot of parents are actually very excited to have their children participate in sports because theres a lot of great life skills that you learn. Teamwork. Competition good competition. Responsibility. Discipline. I think those are all good. I think what the parent tries to balance sometimes, is longterm issues, as my son, he loves soccer and hes 14. Hes had a lot of knee injuries. Is he going to have trouble walking without pain when hes 35 . Mmhm. I think the Biggest Issue is the head injury. Are they going to have problems when theyre 50 of early dementia . Or just having trouble functioning and doing the normal activities we want our children to be successful with. Felix you and i were talking before the program, and you are adamant about playing sports. You think its important. Talk a little bit about what you get out of it and why. When you hear these things, you keep things in perspective. Well i totally agree that theres always a risk of getting injured, and obviously concussions, as i experienced myself, can happen. But i think the benefit that you get out of it for me, for example, im from germany. Im an International Student here. And the experience i have here in america, playing College Soccer where you go and youre playing with your team. Everybodys wearing the same uniform, and then you have the pilot saying, oh we have the san jose state Mens Soccer Team onboard today, good luck. Thats just something that nothing else can give you. And when i think about it, when i look back on my career, its just something that nothing else can give you. And when i think about it, when i look back on my career, its just so many great people i met. So many great places i went to. So many great games i played. And i dont think i will ever forget that. But i will forget the injuries i suffered during that time. Dan, that sounds like a compelling argument to stay in sports and enjoy it. I think its important to consider that theres no guarantee in our sport experiences. And what we know from research is that experiences defer across sport based on gender. Based on level of play. Based on socioeconomic status. And we certainly have many cases of positive outcomes. We also have cases of negative outcomes. And i think more and more today were beginning to look at some of those negative outcomes and be more realistic about them. In the elite pyramid, so many Young Players drop off at some point. And i think our goal is to make sure they become lifelong lovers of physical activity, with sport being a part of that. But our concerns are, in particular with you, is burnout and what we call repetitive stress injuries, rsis. So we come keep coming back to this word of balance dont we . Mmhm, young people tend to think of it as fun, good exercise and i enjoy the comradery, i enjoy the team spirit. But again, do you have a chance to sit down and say, okay now, if that thing hits you. Or if something happens when you get tackled, this could be an injury and i need you to tell me the truth. Do you need help . Do you need medical care . Sometimes ive found young people dont want to say that because they dont want to be taken off the field. I think that could be part of it. I think part of it could also be bravado. They dont want to seem like they cant compete. And i dont know so much that its a matter of being afraid that theyre going to be taken out, as more of a fear of they still want to compete. I come my entire family plays sports. Im the oldest of like 23 grandchildren. My grandmother had Knee Replacement surgery so she could continue to play softball. She played softball on a team with my mom and moms sisters, and some of my cousins. My mom has had both of her knees replaced. My mom was a large woman, but she didnt treat her knees well. And i mean it kind of goes with the territory. You know, you want to compete. And as you said, you know, people you have to worry about burnout, but for those people who do get past that threshold; that hurdle, they want to continue to compete because its, you know, something they love to do. They find a sense of validation in it almost. Mmhm. Felix, how often do you see that when youre out there playing soccer. How many teammates do you see that, you know, maybe wouldnt be honest about an injury, or how much experience do you have in that . When i had my concussion at the beginning of this season, i thought about not telling the trainer that i have experienced symptoms. When you think about the longterm effects, thats when it really comes into play that you want to tell the athletic trainer and your doctor whats going on. Because if he doesnt know whats happened to you, he cant diagnose you properly. He cant treat you properly. And that could actually then affect you in the longterm. And you could suffer from longterm disabilities or mental problems. So i think its really important that you always report those things. And we have our teammates look out for each other. And if i dont want to report it, and i tell my teammates about it, some of them would report it. And lauren, what is it that they should be looking for, in terms of symptoms, if were talking concussion . How do we think about it . Well, it whats important to know is you do not have to lose consciousness to have a concussion. That used to be the feeling, and thats been proven wrong a while ago. But there still is some overlay of people thinking that you need to have that. Theres a lot of various symptoms, and they may not be immediately recognizable. Mmhm. We have something called postconcussion, where postconcussion syndrome, excuse me, where you may feel okay, and think okay, i you know, ill shake this off. And then , for weeks or months, people just dont feel well. And so i think besides feeling, you know, tired. And you know, problems of your memory, of you know, getting your homework done and other things. You may have as somebody mentioned earlier, sleep disturbance or a lot of cognitive things. I saw a patient recently in our Health Center who had had a concussion, that she got at a party. Somebody drunk hit her accidentally. And she could have really good conversations, and do most things. But she couldnt do her homework. And she could not do simple addition and subtraction. And she didnt realize she just knew something was wrong, until she actually tried to do that, did it come home that simple things can be affected. Mmhm. You can also have light sensitivity. So i think any time after you have a head injury and youre having something that just seems not right. It doesnt hurt to say something, and ask for help. Yeah. Or get it checked out as quickly as you can. Yeah. And commenting on your comment, i think sometimes the not reporting might be, you know, you have a responsibility to your team. That, you know, were short; people are out. And i think also theres some good evidence that a lot of times, nonmedical people dont necessarily recognize that somethings wrong. Youve got endorphins going. Youre feeling good. Eh, its a little bump. These are sports that people get bumped around a lot. Sure. So there are you know, something happens, you know, pains. They dont always recognize it. I dont think its intentional that people are not reporting. Sometimes that happens, but i think its just maybe not an awareness. We actually have a big banner in our athletic training room that says, if in doubt, get checked out. So they encourage us yeah. Great motto. Great. Yeah. To get checked out. And if its nothing, its nothing. You can continue to play. But i think its important that you get checked out. Thats a good point. And we see stories in the news for months and months about coaches who get in trouble for leaving players in the game yeah. Or in a competition where they knowingly have issues. They have physical problems. To me that seems unethical. It seems wrong. Certainly. Im sure parents would wonder, why are coaches doing that . Why are they thinking that way . Yeah. I think the pressure to win is humongous. And as you play in the elite ladder, that pressure gets more intense. And around with the eventually endpoint being the olympics, and the professional game, but mmhm. But we say in sports sociology, that all sports is professionalizing. So what we mean is that Elementary School sports starts looking like middle school. Middle School Sports looks like high school. High School Looks Like college. College looks like the pros. So when theres an over emphasis placed on competition and winning, often health is put on the wayside. Mmhm. So what we need is an integrated approach. Primary care physicians. Athletic trainers. This is the key point. Qualified, certified athletic trainers at all practices and all games. A coach who is knowledgeable. Just because we have a coach who knows how to coach tactics x and os, doesnt mean they know the psychophysiology of the human bodies and human athletes, right . So theres the balance again. Right. Competition, cooperation, versus health and longterm consequences. And we struggle sporttosport, leveltolevel, playertoplayer. Its an ongoing conversation, isnt it . Absolutely. Christian . I kind of wanted to ask you guys, is winning worth all of these risks to you . Yes [laughter]. Yes . Yeah, absolutely. I mean i mean ive had broken wrist. Broken fingers. Cracked ribs. I had just recently had an acl surgery. That was pretty bad. I had meniscus damage on both sides. And the doctor came to me, and he said, look ya know, a lot of people they can survive an injury like this without surgery, you know . You can eventually run. As your knee gets stronger, you can snowboard, you know, theres all these things. He said, but you know, being able to cut. Being able to make quick direction changes; being competitive. Like, are these things you want to do . Yes. Like i want to play sports. I want to be competitive. These are things that i want. And hes like, then you have to have surgery. And i knew that going in to meet him that i already knew that i needed surgery. And i knew that it was going to be worth it. I mean the recovery at the outset was terrible. Because i was six weeks where i couldnt put any weight on my leg. It was terrible. But i mean, its worth it, you know . I want to get back out there. I want to compete. I enjoy it. And its i think its worth it. You know . Would you feel differently if youd had five or six concussions . If it was a different type of injury that youre having . Ive had concussions. I played football in high school. Ive had concussions. I mean ive had a lot of sports injuries. I mean nothing thats been debilitating thankfully, but i mean, i know going out, every time i go to every time i go to compete, which im not even at the point where i can compete yet, because im still recovering from my surgery. Mmhm. But i know every time i step on the field, that theres a risk. You know . I could get hit, and i could break my arm or my wrist, or my leg or my ankle, or anything. I could have somebody throw the ball, i mean it crack my helmet. And theres so many Different Things that could happen to me. And i know that. Im aware of those risks. And i think its worth it. You know . And felix, you were telling me before the show that youre a brand new uncle. You have a new person in the family, and you were a little skeptical about having them play sports . Well i would agree with him that its totally worth it. I think its yeah but what about if you had a child. Or your sisters about to have its hard to tell. You know . I dont think i could put myself in a situation without it actually being real, to think about it. Because its right now im still young. I suffered a lot of injuries, and i still say its worth it. But i dont know if i would think differently if i was a parent myself. Well in terms of soccer, what things would you want changed in the game to make you feel better about letting, you know, your family play in the future . I think soccers not a good example. Because especially when you play at a young age, its just about having fun. Its just about soccer is a game that connects people all around the world. You just need a ball, and you dont even need somebody to play with. You just need a ball and yourself, and some compassion, and passion for the game. Mmhm. And thats what i like about soccer. I think football is probably an example, or lacrosse even, where its a little bit more important what kind of injuries you suffer, and how many of them we talk about concussions obviously. I know theres a movie coming about concussions with will smith. I look forward to that, but after all, i think it really depends on the persons self. And once you get older, i would leave the choice up to the child, or the adult or young adult, and not to the parent. Well going back to talking on concussions real quick, theres been research thats come out recently, that headers among youth, in soccer, is really bad. Yeah. And, you know, theyre getting concussions and getting more prone to concussions later in life. Would you want headers in youth soccer to be eliminated . Or do you think it would take away from the experience . No. I think it would destroy the game. Its just like saying we dont have referees anymore. We just do what football does, and do like game review. Thats something that would totally change the game. And i dont think anybody whos playing soccer would want that. We have less than a minute left, i wanted to ask dan yes . Im a diehard football fan. Ill admit it. I really want to see my team play. But if i dont think i want my child to play yes. How do you message that to a child . Thats a great question. Were seeing it more and more, arent we . Pop warner signups are at the lowest theyve ever been, really in the history of american football. We were talking offcamera. One of the big parts of this is theres a diversified set of opportunities now to play sports. So i dont think its necessarily not playing football anymore, but maybe rather exploring various opportunities. A multisport experience is so, so critical, and has a reduction in rsis as well. You have a greater sense of socialization because youre meeting different groups of people. Mmhm. And i think thats critical. I think we mentioned it earlier, it is where is that line between when the child makes the decision and the parent makes the decision . Exactly. And i think the earlier we go, the more that becomes a parental decision, right . Given that there are many opportunities to play many different sports that might not have these significant impacts, it could be that were seeing a sea change culturally in this country. Where football is beginning to wane in its popularity, due to the large amount of psychosocial issues on and off the field. And were seeing a Significant Growth in games like soccer and nontraditional sports. Mmhm. I do think were having a time for more discussion. And parents have got to talk to their children about this. You guys have been fantastic. Thank you all very much. Thank you for joining us. We hope youll come back for another edition of equal time. [ music ] cialg tonight on the Computer History Museum presents revolutionaries. The lab employs 15,000 people including some 1500phds. It includes the worldsac centrist men and women. The Silicon Valley before Silicon Valley was bell labs in murray hill, new jersey. As author john gergner says, its where the future which we now call the present was conceived and designed. Tonight gertner talks about his book the idea factory and bell labs with dave iversons. Id like to ask you, if you would, john, just to begin by reading the first paragraph of the book