Transcripts For KQED PBS NewsHour 20161117

Path to political comedy. When you are not under the impression that the world is yours, you have to figure out how to listen to the world that you are in. Sreenivasan all that and more on tonights pbs newshour. Major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by lincoln financial committed to helping you take charge of your financial future. And by the alfred p. Sloan foundation. Supporting science, technology, and improved Economic Performance and Financial Literacy in the 21st century. Supported by the rockefeller foundation. Promoting the wellbeing of humanity around the world by building resilience and inclusive economies. More at rockefellerfoundation. Org Carnegie Corporation of new york. Supporting innovations in education, democratic engagement, and the advancement of International Peace and security. At carnegie. Org. And with the ongoing support of these institutions and individuals. This program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. And by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. Thank you. Sreenivasan the trump transition operated on two fronts today, in new york and washington. The president elect received a parade of potential cabinet officers, while his running mate courted congress. John yang begins our coverage. Yang one after another, they made the pilgrimage to trump tower for audiences with the president elect. Some were familiar faces from the Campaign Former new york mayor rudy giuliani, and retired others have also been mentioned as possible members of the Trump Administration House Financial Services chairman jeb hensarling, fedex c. E. O. Chairman fred smith, and governors rick scott or florida and nikki haley of south carolina. Transition officials said theres no arbitrary timeline for personnel decisions announcements. I think, basically, before or right after thanksgiving is probably more appropriate. We looked at where past administrations have been also, and we feel like were on target, right on time for all of that. Yang president elect trump talked Foreign Policy with former secretary of state henry kissinger. Today he met with japanese Prime Minister, shinzo abe, the first world leader to come calling since the election. The Transition Team Incoming Administration has begun launching its socalled landing teams to work on the transition with Current Administration officials across the federal government. All members of those teams, and anyone being vetted for an administration job, have to give up lobbying if theyre a registered lobbyist. And they have to agree to a fiveyear lobbying ban after leaving government service. Today, Vice President elect pence was on capitol hill, addressing the House Republican conference he once led very humbling to be back among my former colleagues who are excited about moving the trump agenda forward in the coming congress and im just so grateful, so grateful for the warm hospitality. Yang mr. Pence also sat down with House Minority leader nancy pelosi, and with chuck schumer, the Incoming Senate minority leader. For the pbs newshour, im john yang. Sreenivasan former House Speaker Newt Gingrich took himself out of the running for a trump cabinet post today. He told the Washington Post he wants the freedom to Network Across the whole system. Woodruff in the days other news, president obama had some pointed advice for his successor, on dealing with russia. He spoke in berlin, after meeting with german chancellor angela merkel, and said he hopes mr. Trump confronts the kremlin when it goes too far. My hope is that the simply take a realpolitik approach and suggest that, you know, if we just cut some deals with russia, even if it hurts people or even if it violates international norms, or even if it leaves smaller countries that we just do whatever is convenient at the time. Woodruff merkel said shes keeping an open mind on working with a Trump Administration. Sreenivasan Hillary Clinton has reemerged in public, urging supporters to keep fighting. She spoke last night at a washington gala for the childrens defense fund. Clinton acknowledged shes had moments when she wanted to curl up and never leave the house again after her stunning loss. But she said, this is no time to give in. I know that over the past week, a lot of people have asked themselves whether america is the country we thought it was. But please listen to me when i say this america is worth it. Our children are worth it. Believe in our country, fight for our values and never, ever give up. Sreenivasan clinton did not mention president elect trump by name. Woodruff Republican Leaders in the u. S. House called today for a bill to fund the government into march. They said that would give the incoming Trump Administration time to weigh in on future spending priorities. Meanwhile, nancy pelosi now faces a challenge to keep her job as House Minority leader. Ohio democrat tim ryan announced today hell run against pelosi. Sreenivasan the u. S. Surgeon general is out with a call to action on substance abuse. Dr. Vivek murthy issued a sweeping report today. Among the findings 78 americans die every day from overdosing on opioids. A record 47,000 died from drug overdoses of all kinds, in 2014. And more than 27 Million People reported using illegal drugs, or misusing prescription drugs last year. Woodruff in economic news, the head of the Federal Reserve says the Economic Outlook is improving. Thats likely to paved the way for another Interest Rate hike, next month. Janet yellen gave her semi annual report to congress today. She acknowledged the feds view could change, depending on what the Trump Administration does. When theres greater clarity about the economic policies that might be put into effect the committee will have to factor those assessments of their impacts on employment and inflation and perhaps adjust our outlook depending on what happens. Woodruff yellen also said she has no intention of stepping down before her term ends in january of 2018. Sreenivasan j. P. Morgan chase will pay 264 million to settle federal charges that it bribed its way into banking deals with china. The bank was accused of hiring relatives of wellconnected chinese officials, in a bid to secure business. Several other banks are under a similar investigation. Woodruff wall street managed modest gains today. The Dow Jones Industrial average gained 35 points to close near 18,904. The nasdaq rose 39 points, and the s p 500 added 10. Sreenivasan astronaut Peggy Whitson is now the oldest woman in space, at the age of 56. The biochemist was on a Russian Rocket that blasted off from kazakhstan today, on a mission to the International Space station. Whitson will celebrate her 57th birthday in space, next february. John glenn remains the oldest human to go into space. He flew on a space shuttle, at age 77. Woodruff and, the man who made Archer Daniels midland into a Food Industry giant has died. Dwayne andreas passed away wednesday. He took over a. D. M. In 1970 and built a dominant position in everything from ethanol to corn syrup. He stepped down in 1997, after a pricefixing scandal. A. D. M. Was also a major underwriter of the newshour for years. Dwayne andreas was 98 years old. Sreenivasan still to come on the newshour president elect trumps first meeting with a foreign leader. Concerns that a Climate Change denier is shaping the president elects stance on the environment. Making sense of a program that lets Foreign Investors immigrate to the u. S. , and much more. Woodruff president elect trump has spoken by phone to scores of world leaders. Japans Prime Minister shinzo abe will visit with him in person in new york this evening, following concern in his country over statements candidate trump made during the campaign. In fact, questions have been raised in many quarters about trumps Foreign Policy, as he decides who his main appointments in that arena will be. We turn now to Michael Pillsbury who has been advising the trump Transition Team. He has served in past republican administrations in the Defense Department and on the National Security council staff. And David Rothkopf he is the c. E. O. And editor of Foreign Policy magazine, and the author of National Insecurity American Leadership in an age of fear. Offis and we welcome both of you to the program. Michael pillsbury, let me start with you and ask you about the visit with the japanese Prime Minister, the meeting late this afternoon with donald trump. How typical is it for a foreign head of government to meet with someone whos been elected president but hasnt taken office yet . Its common. Its basically a japanese initiative. Its a very good idea. It lets the japanese sort of get the feel of mr. Trump, present some of their kerns from the campaign rhetoric, and the fact that mr. Abe has already said its an honor for him to be the first foreign leader in some sense of a competitive dynamic. There have been reproaches from Prime Minister modi and others that they would like a chance to talk to the plect as well. Woodruff youre saying this is common . I dont the statistics. The key thing is the president elect cant act. He cant conduct Foreign Policy, but he can certainly educate himself and have a chance to meet people. So after hes president , it wont be a meeting of two strangers. Woodruff David Rothkopf, what about that . How accustomed are we, should we be to a president elect having these kinds of meetings . Well, these kind of things happen. President obama met with foreign leaders before he took office. I think what president elect trump needs to think about a little bit is that his actions have Foreign Policy consequences whether or not hes meeting with foreign leaders so that, for example, if he sends out a tweet trying to intimidate or berate the New York Times, foreign leaders who might be wanting to do that themselves start saying, oh, there is a change in u. S. Policy. Or if he cozies up to russia, or appoints an ethnonationalist as his primary adviser, people say, oh, perhaps ethnonationalism in s in season at the white house. Everything he does has a Foreign Policy consequence. Woodruff there has been a lot made not just about Stephen Bannon being made top person in the white house. How much information is there about him . Hes not president so things foreign leaders say can be for effect. I was on president reagans Transition Team. We had similar issues. People wanted to get in touch, wanted to know what the true policy was going to be. Transition teams dont have any authority. President reagan didnt really get to his main National Security strategy till one year in office. Some of the key documents took one year to hash out. So were really in a very early phase where, as david says, yes, the tweets are read and people are watching, but there are no teams meeting to hammer things out. Were way early to see what the Trump Administrations role in history will be. Woodruff David Rothkopf, sounds like Michael Pillsbury is saying its too early to get concerned about any of this until he takes office and starts making decisions. I dont know if its too early. Yesterday had the head of the National Security agency saying rust had taken an active role in trying to tip the scales of this election toward trump. Indeed, thats what happened. Then trump got on the phone with russia, talked to putin. A letter from poofnt. A day later putin launches a major offensive in syria. Some of the people who trump is considering are people who are fairly cozy with the russians including general mike flynn. So all of a sudden people are starting to put pieces together. Michaels right, it takes time for a Foreign Policy legacy to emerge, but for First Impressions matter, and right now donald trump is making some pretty disturbing First Impressions. Woodruff i want to come back on the the specifics of that. Go ahead. A new president from whatever party deserves a bit of a cease fire. The election is over. Politics will continue. There will be Harsh Criticism of donald trump for the next four years, im sure. One of my favorite impressions in washington is something George Schultz said i think on the pbs newshour. He said nothing ever gets settled in this town. So conflicts can continue, we can criticize mike flynn but hes not named yet as personal security advisor. I hope he is. His book is quite good. Hes not speaking now, general flynn going on tv, he doesnt speak as an government official. The Election Campaign over and there needs to be a break in the Harsh Criticism of mr. Trump and his team. Woodruff David Rothkopf, i hear you say there are signals donald trump had with Vladimir Putin, for example. Of course, and there are signals that are being sent with tweets intimidating the times and signals being sent for who hes evaluating for key offices and who might be the people that he chooses to appoint to those offices and, you know, yes, it would be nice, ideally, if we could set aside the politics for a moment, but some of these things are not political. When you take somebody whos run a publication thats white supremacist, misogynist publication and appoint him right ext door to the president in the white house, that sends a message, particularly in europe right now where theres a rising tide of the right. One of those people who hes appointed, steve bannon, has already sent a message to the lapen team who is going to contend for the presidency of france next year, extreme right wingers. Hes saying, look, well help you, were part of the rising tide of the right. So actions are being taken, choices are being made and the consequences are serious. Woodruff and we should say that the Breitbart News organization argues against the characterization of white supremacist. But setting that aside, Michael Pillsbury, what about this argument that, already, by his statements, even saying i had a good conversation with Vladimir Putin and the next day russia launches yet another strike, punishing strike in syria that those are not things that we should be concerned about at the very least . I think the key thing is White House Fact Sheet that president obama issued, and president obamas own statements that the Obama Administration has tried very hard to prepare memos for every Government Department for the last few months suggesting what to do, descriptions of what has happened so far. But those will not be turned over until mr. Trumps Transition Teams arrive in the buildings. Now, the problem we have right now is that the Transition Teams reporter and some of them did arrive today. And this is a setback for the past week or so, but its easy to remedy this and now the dialogue begins. So things like david is concerned about, they will begin to sort of get ahold of whats been going on in Foreign Policy and defense areas quite scone. Were in a very premature first week. I appeal to david, give people a break. Woodruff we are just beginning to watch, and this is the first of many, many conversations we will be having. Michael pillsbury, David Rothkopf, thank you both. Pleasure. Sreenivasan more than 200 nations reaffirmed their commitment to the Paris Climate Accord today, during a u. N. Summit in morocco. The show of support comes amidst worries that u. S. President elect donald trump will pull out of the deal. It also comes as dozens of wildfires continue to burn across the Southeast Region of this country. More than 30 that are still uncontained in north carolina, south carolina, georgia, tennessee, alabama and kentucky, and Climate Change could be one factor that may contribute to the Drought Conditions feeding them. William brangham has a closer look at how a Trump Administration could change americas course on Climate Change. Were going to cancel the paris climate agreement. Brangham department of department of environmental protection, were going to get rid of it in almost every form. Brangham throughout the long campaign, donald trump made clear he wants a sharp turnabout in u. S. Environmental policy. Oh coal country. Brangham he repeatedly pledged to undo the Obama Administrations Clean Power Plan, an aggressive effort to cut Carbon Emissions from power plants. Energy is under siege by the Obama Administration, under absolute siege. The e. P. A. Is killing these energy companies. Brangham since winning the election, the president elect has tapped Climate Change skeptic myron ebell to head the e. P. A. Transition. Trump has repeatedly expressed his own skepticism about Climate Change, like in this 2012 tweet, when he said the concept of Global Warming was created by and for the chinese in order to make u. S. Manufacturing non competitive. Two years later, he wrote Global Warming is an expensive hoax meanwhile, the Paris Climate Accords officially took effect on november 4 an agreement among dozens of nations, all aimed at limiting worldwide warming to just an additional two degrees celsius, a little over 3. 5 degrees fahrenheit. But doubts about what president elect trump will do, are hanging over this weeks u. N. Climate conference in morocco. The u. S. Will shred the document. Brangham it would take four years to withdraw from the pact, but there are no enforcement mechanisms, so the new Trump Administration could simply ignore the u. S. commitments. In marrakech yesterday, secretary of state john kerry warned against taking that step. He said Climate Change should not be a partisan issue. No one has a right to make decisions for billions of people based solely on ideology, or brangham at the same time, 365 American Companies have written to the president elect, imploring him to uphold the paris accord and warning, failure to build a lowcarbon economy puts american prosperity at risk. David roberts covers this for vox, and is a journalist who has long written about the need for tackling and adapting to Climate Change. David roberts, lets start off talking about the man whos going to help the Trump Administration shape Energy Policy. Who is hi ron ebel and what does he believe . Myron is director of Climate Change program at the competitive enterprise institute, a think tank in washington, d. C. His belief is Climate Change is a hoax or possibly no big deal, happening in no big deal or possibly happening and good for us depending on which day you ask him. Certainly, we dont need any Public Policy to help counter it. Brangham in some ways, he seems like an ideological fit as far as what we understand Donald Trumps policy is to believe and positions. Thats right, i think its a very clear signal from the trump camp that he was not kidding in what he said about Climate Change on the trail. Brangham lets talk about some of the things the Trump Administration might do. With regards to the paris accords, for those following along, a whole group of nations have binded together to say were going to pledge to cut emissions going forward. If the Trump Administration wanted to, can they just walk back from those commitments . Can they just walk away from the accords themselves . Absolutely. The whole premise of the Paris Agreement is that all the commitments from all countries involved are voluntary. That was one of the reasons it was a breakthrough is making those commitments voluntary opened countries up and made them more ambitious. But the consequence of them being voluntary is trump can absolutely walk away. It will take him several years to formally get the u. S. Out of the accord but nothing is stopping him from just stating hes not going to pursue the targets and not going to do anything to attempt to meet our commitments there, and there is no legal neck nism that can stop him. Brangham same questions with regards to domestic policy. What is a Trump Administration Energy Policy going to look like . Well, i think the First Priority is going to be to dismantle the obama environmental legacy. So for instance the Clean Power Plan aimed at power plants will be either rolled back or delayed or slowwalked or reversed entirely, depending on what road they take. But i think the initial efforts are all going to be designed to dismantle everything that obama has done in this area over the last eight years. Brangham its hard to know if voters picked trump because of his Energy Policy but i think its undeniable there are a lot of people in the country especially in states like West Virginia who think when you talk about cutting Carbon Emissions you mean youre cutting their jobs, that energy costs are going to go up and, to a lot of voters, that doesnt seem like an exchange they want to make. In some ways, trump has something of mandate, opportunity he . I dont think so, william. A couple of things, one is not a lot of people know this yet, but Renewable Energy now employs far more people in the United States than coal does, certainly. Theres more jobs in the Solar Industry alone than there is in coal anymore, so in terms of job growth, renewables are a much more fertile source of that than fossil fuels. Secondly, if you actually go beneath the general level and poll the public on individual questions like should we do something to restrain Carbon Emissions . Should we tighten regulations on pollution . Should we support Renewable Energy . Support for those policies is incredibly haig across the board, across demographics, across regions of the country. If youre looking at individual environmental policies, public support se norms. The problem is there just arent that many members of the public who make those issues their priority. So i dont think trumps win necessarily tells us anything about what the public thinks about Energy Policy so much as it tells us that the public just doesnt think about Energy Policy very much. Brangham trump made a repeated pledge to bring the coal industry back. Is that in the president s power to do . Absolutely not. I mean, the main thing killing coal right now in the u. S. Is cheap natural gas, and thats Market Competition. Thats Market Competition thats killing coal and thats going to be true no matter what trump does, and theres automation in the coal industry, so coal mining jobs have been declining for 40 years now from their historic highs and will continue to decline as automation increases. So most of the forces that are adverse to coal in the u. S. , particularly adverse to coal mining jobs, are outside the president s control and are definitely going to continue no matter what trump does. The interesting thing is whether those people that he made those promises to remember those promises and hold him accountable. Brangham lets say trump does everything he promised to do, treats Climate Change as a hoax, walks away from paris accords, dismantles the e. P. A. Regulation, what does that mean for the global effort to cut carbon emission and how much will it impact what the rest of the planet is doing already . That is indeed the 6 million question and no one knows the answer yes. The news is not good. A lot of the Paris Agreement and a lot of International Cooperation on Climate Change has been built on u. S. Leadership recently. Obamas leadership helped bring china into the fold, to the table to do this, and then the prospect of the u. S. And china acting in concert helped bring the rest of the world to the table. So in a large sense, this edifice is built on top of u. S. Leadership, so if you yank u. S. Leadership out from underneath it, at the very least, i think its going to be much more shaky and vulnerable. Whether it continues on as it has been depends on a lot of economic forces and technological innovation and a lot of things that we cant really predict. But i think at the very least, action is much more fragile and contingent than it was before this news. Brangham David Roberts of vox, thank you very much. Thank you, william. Woodruff the socalled eb5 visa Program Allows foreign nationals to invest in jobcreating programs in the u. S. In exchange for permanent residency. But its been scandalplagued, with calls for reform. As Congress Gets set to tackle some final business before the end of this year, will the program finally get fixed . Our economics paul solman takes a look. Its part of his weekly Series Making sense. See, in dubai the thing is, as long as you work in dubai, you can live in dubai. But what if you leave the job . We have to go back to pakistan, which we dont want to. Reporter noreen and shehry iqbal thought they had a surefire way to avoid a return to their native pakistan. Its not a safe country. Its got a lot of security challenges. Reporter hes a Flight Attendant for dubais national airline; she was too, until they had kids. Their plan sock away enough of their salaries to buy their way into america. Via the eb5 visa program, which grants green cards, and eventually u. S. Citizenship, to foreigners and their immediate families. Just invest half a Million Dollars to create at least ten fulltime jobs in either a rural project, or an urban area with a high unemployment rate. We saved even the allowance money, i can say that. Its so embarrassing for us to tell somebody that allowance money is for you to eat, but we used to save that also. Reporter oh, you mean the money that the airline would give you. On your flight to have your food and everything, we would save that also. Reporter and put it away. Put it away. Reporter to that, they added shehrys small inheritance. His parents had died in a car crash when he was a teenager. And investments theyd made to grow their nest egg. She bought a little studio in a nice upscale area called the jumeirah lake towers. It was generating a very, very good rental income. Reporter are you youre starting to remember it all . Thats whats going on . Sorry. Reporter its ok. So we rarely talk about this because i start to. Reporter a lot of tears have been shed over the eb5 project the iqbals chose to invest in, one we first covered last year here on making sen e the jay peak ski resort in northern vermont, coupled with plans for a hugely ambitious stem Cell Manufacturing facility affiliated with a south korean biotech firm. But in april, the securities and Exchange Commission charged developers Ariel Stenger and federal securities violations, alleging theyd misused 200 million of eb5 investor funds, running the ski resort project as a giant ponzi scheme, and the stem cell project as a total fraud. The iqbals, who put down their money on stem cells, have lost not just their half Million Dollar investment, but another 65,000 in legal and administrative fees, with not a green card in sight. We talked to them on their recent visit to the u. S. On tourist visas, using free flight passes. Are you now wiped out . Yes. All of the money, it was just squandered, you know . Reporter and you lost your entire inheritance. Yes. And it hurts me because my mom and dad were very young when they passed away and it was my job to protect the money they left us. And that really breaks my heart. Reporter does it make you think differently about america . To be honest, unfortunately yes. We have lived in countries which are not regulated, but we have never been cheated on this scale. We have never been cheated at all to be honest. Reporter the iqbals feel that america is really letting them down. The United States is. That the government, through its agencies, are not monitoring this activity is really disgraceful. Reporter Michael Gibson is an independent eb5 Investment Adviser who says he thoroughly vets projects before recommending them to clients, documenting everything on tape. And you go around the country. All over the United States. Reporter recording eb5 projects. Absolutely. Been doing it since 2008. Reporter but only one in ten projects, he says, agree to let him in. The biggest problem is transparency. The agency thats administering the Program Offers no disclosure regarding any of the investments. So if youre an investor and youre asking questions about how many projects have they developed . How much capital theyve raised, what theyve done with that capital, how many jobs theyve created. None of this information is disclosed. Reporter and its not just 700 investors in the vermont project whove literally paid the price. In south dakota, an eb5funded beef packing plant went belly up, taking the funds of some 300 investors with it. They assumed that the state was overseeing this investment and the fact is that they were not. There is no set of sanctions for violations, no recourse for bad actors. Reporter last year, six bills were introduced in congress to reform the eb5 program, increasing scrutiny of the socalled Regional Centers, private firms that sponsor eb5 developments. None passed. Why . There are a few Regional Centers with very powerful connections in washington, including their lobbyists, they are concerned that any reform would impact their ability to raise capital for cities such as new york and los angeles and miami. Reporter right, says angelique brunner, who owns and operates five Regional Centers. But without eb5, she says, many urban projects, like this Retail Development in washington, d. C. Would never break ground. Were an essential piece of projects like this. We work directly with developers and weve seen first hand the challenges that they experience in the Capital Markets when theyre going to raise capital. And its an important part of the story to encourage other capital players to come to the table in terms of banking and other equity. Reporter oh really . , says gibson. Then what about all the eb5 funded projects rising in manhattan, amid similar conventionally financed projects . Luxury condos in tribeca; ritzy midtown hotels and office buildings. And then theres the largest eb 5 project of them all hudson yards on the far west side. It had no shortage of americans willing to invest, says gibson. And many would argue, that in fact they already had capital lined up. They just were pursuing eb5 capital as it was lower cost. It was cheaper financing for them. Reporter and thats it . Thats it. Reporter so its not creating jobs, then, at all. They would have created the jobs anyway, thats what many would argue. This is simply a way for them to save a point or two on their financing. Reporter scandals. Fishy financing. Yet lobbyists have kept congress from cleaning things up, for the usual reasons, says gibson. The developers are very well financed, wellheeled, they donate to the political campaigns of many of these politicians, so if the developers can save several Million Dollars, they are going to encourage their politicians to allow them to use the eb5 capital for their development. Its self interest. Reporter in the case of jay peak, which was part of a state run regional center, its lobbying was done by alex mclean, a former assistant to vermonts governor one of the Amazing Things about vermont is that its so small, and the access to the politicians is readily available. Nobody knows the system better than me. Reporter now no american political story would be complete these days without donald trump. And indeed, he figures in this one. Just this month, trump bay street, a 50story luxury apartment building, opened in jersey city, new jersey, built by a company run by trumps son inlaw, jared kushner, who raised a quarter of the projects 200 Million Financing from eb5 investors in china. Which is why i alone can fix it. Reporter but locally and federally, the door between government and lobbying keeps revolving. And to Michael Gibson, the stakes of closing it for eb5 projects are substantial. The issue is that it is affecting the credibility of the United States, because granting what is probably the most cherished document in the world, the u. S. Passport and path to eventual citizenship is really in the hands of developers who at times do scheme and fraud to take advantage of the investors. Reporter the iqbals, their dreams of immigration to the u. S. Dashed, still make their home in dubai at least for now. For them, american credibility is shot. If someone would come and ask me ive got half a Million Dollars and i want to move to the u. S. , i would probably say dont do it. Reporter this is economics correspondent paul solman, reporting for the pbs newshour. Sreenivasan in the week or so since the election, there has been mounting criticism of whether web giants like facebook and google used enough discretion and editorial responsibility in screening out fake news sites. A new analysis by buzzfeed found that false election stories from hoax sites and hyperpartisan blogs generated more engagement than content from real news sites during the last three months of the election. Users shared false stories like this one about pope francis endorsing donald trump, or Hillary Clinton selling weapons to isis, hundreds of thousands of times, even more than real stories. President obama weighed in today during his trip to germany. If we are not serious about facts and whats true and whats not, and particularly in an age of social media where so many people are getting their information in sound bytes and snippets off their phones, if we cant discriminate between serious arguments and propaganda, then we have problems. Sreenivasan Craig Silverman worked on the analysis done by buzzfeed and he joins me now. Craig, how do we know facebooks impact on the electorate . How did you research this . What we did is looked for the biggest 20 hits in the last three months before the election from sites that published fake news or sites that had published something false that also went viral, and then we looked at the total number of facebook engagements for those, and thats a number that encompasses, the comments, reactions and shares and decided to compare those to the top 20 real news hits from the 19 major news organizations. In the last three months before the election compared to the six months before that the engage month on the top twenty fake stories was higher than real news. Sreenivasan you found some sites were news sites but they had more power than the New York Times or the Washington Post . I didnt expect fake news to get more engagement than real news overall but to see that the leading fake news site getting most engagement had only been registered months before and its top four fake stories got more facebook engagement than the top four from the Washington Post, that was very surprising. Sreenivasan you found in your investigation some of the sites were built in macedonia for more of a profit motive than a political one. Yeah, a few weeks ago we published a story where we found well over 100 sites focused on u. S. Politics being run out of one small down in the former yuslav republican of macedonia. They were consistently publishing things that werent true and when we did this calculation of the top twenty fake election hits, we did find two macedonian sites there. Sreenivasan Mark Zuckerberg said its kind of a crazy idea to think fake news tilted the election. 99. 9 of the stuff we publish is solid and in fact we had a positive effect, we got a lot of people to vote, and that probably has a more measurable impact on the election. I agree that is more measurable. One of the problems that we have now is facebook doesnt make a lot of Data Available publicly, so the analysis we did is just one slice of a lot of different investigations i think people should be able to do. We dont know the impact of fake news on the election. I dont think its correct to say it swayed things in favor of trump. I dont think it was a deciding factor, but it definitely had some kind of a factor. The fact that fake news was going more viral to election day than mainstream news reporting is really surprising and i think something we should be concerned about. Fake news has been around as long as the internet. Whats the difference now . I would argue actually fake news predeets the internet as well. If you think about the early newspapers, they were often partisan newspapers and would public things that were fake. The internet came along and anybody can become a publisher so its more democratized so you have more fake news. But a deciding factor is facebook, 1. 7 billion people around the world logging in every month where it can get a tremendous velocity and reach many people, we havent seen as much fake news. Sreenivasan is there a diminishing value for what the source is for facts today . Seems like, when i ask someone where did you hear that . They say i saw it on my phone. If i press further, they say it was on facebook. But often they dont say it was from buzzfeed and Craig Silverman wrote it. People sometimes talk about the promiscuity of consumers where you might see something a friend shared on facebook, you might see something as a link on twitter, somebody might email something to you, and while you may go to your chosen sources in the morning or at night, youre also getting stuff from other sources and i do think for certain people, they dont necessarily take a step back and say where did this come from and what is this web site . We consume things in an almost passive way and fake stuff can slip into that real stream of news a lot easier. Sreenivasan does this create an echo chamber . The wall street journal had a red feed blue feed where perhaps friends on one side of the aisle saw news selfaffirming. There is an echo chamber effect, some call it a filter bubble. The reality is humans like to consume information that alliance with their existing beliefs. So when we read something that goes along with what we already think or think might be true we are inclined to believe it and maybe inclined to share it. On a place like facebook where there are algorithms deciding what to show us they give us more of what we look at. I worry about sort of the collapse of that middle ground for not only political conversation but other things as well. Sreenivasan finally, whats facebook and google doing about this . Right now the main thing thats happened is google and facebook followed suit and said they will not allow fake news sites, sites publishing false information to participate in the advertiser programs. The google announcement is probably more significant because its Advertising Program was used by a lot of sites to earn money, and so right now what we have is a little bit of shutting off the financial motive for this, which i think is actually a pretty powerful thing. Sreenivasan Craig Silverman from buzzfeed joining us tonight. Thank you. Thanks. Woodruff now we go from fake news on social streams to the tv screen humor, politics, and the life of a perpetual outsider. Jeffrey brown talks with the host of the late night daily show, trevor noah. Brown it was the morning after the morning after, and, along with the rest of us, the producers and writers of the daily show were grappling with the recent earthquake in american politics. There were serious exchanges about the role of protest. There were jokes and laughter. One Protester Holding up a sign that said im just sad. Thats really all it is. Brown leading the discussion was the programs host, trevor noah. The whole point of democracy is that we dont fight about the decision. Its a scary time, but i think we have to be careful to not brand either side in and discussion as a monolith. Its a lot more nuanced than it seems. And a lot of the time as people, were not good at dealing with nuance. Its easier to say black and white, right and wrong. Brown out with the old, and in with the new. But the j. In trump actually stands for jesus. Brown and the 32yearold noah is still the new guy here, taking over last year as the surprise pick to replace jon stewart, who after 16 years at the helm was a National Cultural figure. I was surprised with everyone else. Its not like i wasnt surprised. I was also like, wow, who is that guy. That is insane. Who is that guy. Only an idiot would take the job after jon stewart, but luckily i was that idiot. Brown it hasnt been the easiest transition the late night field has become more crowded, and the daily show nubers have fallen, but with the help of a staff of over 100, noah has brought a very particular perspective, one he thinks may be especially useful now. I come from a world where ive always practiced empathizing and putting myself in somebody elses mind, which is very difficult to do. But i truly believe that most people are doing what they believe is right from their point of view. But when you think of it from another persons point of view and you think of them being right from their point of view, it then gives you a greater insight into not only why they think the way they do, but maybe how to speak to them or even how to argue against those points. Brown noah was born in johannesburg, south africa, in the last years of apartheid, a time when a child like himself son of a black South African woman and a white swiss father was literally, as the title of his new memoir puts it, born a crime. I existed in a space where there was no one like me most of my like, most of my life. I never met a child who had parents who were different races. I grew up either in a black environment or i got to visit a white environment. Brown noah was raised by his mother, who was jailed several times for breaking apartheidera laws, and spent much of his earliest life indoors, to hide him from a government that could take him away and imprison her. So i lived as an outsider, but at the same time, because of being an outsider, i think one of the biggest benefits is you never see yourself as being the most important thing, because the world is never yours. So what you have to do is you have to find your place in other peoples worlds. Brown and how do you do that . You used this word chameleon, right . Thats how you adapted. Thats what you do, and you do that by listening. Essentially thats what a chameleon is doing, for all intents and purposes, its listening to its environment and adapting accordingly. If the chameleons not aware of the color of the leaf that its on, then how will it know what color to turn to. Brown in the book, noah tells of his mother having to act as though she was the black maid to her lightskinned child, and of his father running away from him as if they were not related. Did you realize what was happening at the time . No. No i didnt, and thankfully i didnt. My parents were really good at insulating me from the reality of the world that i was in. My dad, to me, wasnt running away from me, he was just running with me. My mom was playing. My dad was playing. I was playing. Brown but there was a point where you realized that was not play. Yeah, but by the time i did, the country was changing so much. And im lucky in that, and i never take that away, i never discount the fact that i was extremely lucky. Because when i started to come of age, when i was six years old, the laws of apartheid were officially abolished. When i was 10 years old, we had our first democratic election, and thats i think that was the greatest gift for me, is that i got to live on all sides. Some who have only lived through the pain, even when the country changed, could only feel the pain. Some who exist beyond that dont feel a connection to a previous world. Brown he would become a major star in his homeland, as a stand up comedian and hosting his own late night show. He began making guest appearances on american shows. And in 2014 joined the daily show with jon stewart as a contributor. Humor, he says, was and is a way to process the world. No matter how poor you are, no matter how much pain youre in, laughter is something you always have. Its the anesthetic of the mind, i feel. Because no matter what youre going through, if you laugh just for a moment, theres a moment of respite. Brown what now . Jokes, for sure. We have someone who walks around like a space museum. Whats this whats this brown but noah told me hed quickly realized the demand from the daily show audience for more than that. And again, hes drawing on his own experience. Remember, when i first started hosting the daily show i said donald Trump Reminds me of an affecten dictator and we have the evidence to back it up. I made a tremendous amount of money. Everybody loves me. The world i come from is a world of people who grab power off the backs of those who are disenfranchised or feel like theyve been left behind and undereducated. Ive come from a world where the person who is uneducated or the person who is unqualified can become the leader who takes everything. I come from a world where they use hateful rhetoric to try and rise up the masses and get them behind them. I come from that world, and that world doesnt make sense here, and yet now it does. Brown from Comedy Central in new york city, im Jeffrey Brown for the pbs newshour. Sreenivasan now to another episode of brief but spectacular, where we ask interesting people to describe their passions. Tonight, we hear from bob mankoff, cartoon editor for the new yorker magazine since 1997. He explains the humor of cartoons. Every once in a while we run a joke that very few people get, and i think thats the hallmark of the new yorker. We dont do it to annoy people. We spend an extraordinary amount of time selecting, going through and editing the cartoons that you end up finding that funny. Part of the thing of cartoons is theyre a little stupid and they connect us with the stupidity of our own consciousness in life. We are ribbing ourselves, our own pretentious and middle class and in doing that we become connoisseurs of unhappiness. Door tunes depends on the cartoonist. Amateurs loves everything they do. A professional understandhouse in the end somebody else has to judge their work. Often something that comes out of your own real Life Experience you dont directly use. You modify it within the form. I found someone was brushing me off, so i said, how about never . Is never good for you . I tweaked it to make it into a cartoon. It has the sin tax of politeness but the message is rude. The type of humor, the type of surprise. One that has a deep pa those of how life is, its a man looking at the obituary and says, three years older than you, two years younger than you, your age right on the dot. Michael crawford, all cork screws, a perfect cognitive of cartoon. Kaplan is a master of a single line, their two mothers and have their children and one is saying to the other, they grow up so slow. One of the functions is coping. Youre better off if you laugh. After 9 11 they said irony is dead, everything changed. The kaplan cartoon, a couple of months after 9 11, one woman said its hard but slowly im getting back to hating every one. You just need a Little Something to say life is going to go on and if life goes on, humor will go on. Im bob mankoff and this is my brief but spectacular take on cartoons. Sreenivasan sometimes we need a good reason to laugh. Woodruff we do. Sreenivasan you can watch additional brief but spectacular episodes on our website, pbs. Org newshour brief. Woodruff on the newshour online right now, a lawyer and professor who specializes in Public Interest law says he was upset and not sure what to say after the election, and yet this past week has been the most rewarding of his teaching career. You can read more of his thoughts on our website. And we welcome more of your tributes and condolences for gwen ifill, who died on monday. Submit them online, or call 7035946727 to share your thoughts and memories. All that and more is on our web site, pbs. Org newshour. Sreenivasan and thats the newshour for tonight. Im hari sreenivasan. Woodruff and im judy woodruff. Join us online, and again here tomorrow evening with david brooks and ruth marcus. For all of us at the pbs newshour, thank you and good night. Major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by lincoln financial committed to helping you take charge of your financial future. And with the ongoing support of these institutions this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. And by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. Thank you. Captioning sponsored by newshour productions, llc captioned by Media Access Group at wgbh access. Wgbh. Org this is bbc world news. Funding of this presentation is made possible by the freeman foundation, newmans own foundation, giving all profits from newmans own to charity and pursuing the common good. Kovler foundation, pursuing solutions for americas neglected needs. And aruba tourism authority. Planning a vacation escape that is relaxing, inviting, and exciting is a lot easier than you think. You can find it here, in aruba. Families, couples, and friends can all find their escape on the island with warm sunny days, cooling trade winds, and the