Transcripts For KQED PBS NewsHour 20161019

More, on tonights pbs newshour. Major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by love me tender love me true we can like many, but we can love only a precious few. Because it is for those precious few that you have to be willing to do so very much. But you dont have to do it alone. Lincoln financial helps you provide for and protect your financial future, because this is what you do for people you love. Lincoln financial youre in charge. Bnsf railway. Xq institute. Supporting social entrepreneurs and their solutions to the worlds most pressing problems skollfoundation. Org. Supported by the john d. And catherine t. Macarthur foundation. Committed to building a more just, verdant and peaceful world. More information at macfound. Org and with the ongoing support of these institutions this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. And by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. Thank you. Sreenivasan once more, with hard feelings. Tonights president ial debate is a climactic moment in a bitter contest headlined by talk of sexual misdeeds and email malfeasance. John yang begins our coverage, from las vegas. Reporter this final faceoff comes as trump is facing allegations of Sexual Assaults and sliding polls and making his own claims of a rigged election. He sort of telegraphed a little bit its going to be scorched earth. Reporter campaigning in ohio today, Hillary Clintons running mate, tim kaine, predicted his nominee wont be rattled. Hillary is going to be very strong. Very strong on facts and details and demonstrating knowledge. And i think shell be what she was in the first two debates. She will be steady and calm, whatever donald trump tries to throw at her. Reporter one thing he could throw a new allegation against former president bill clinton. Breitbart news reported today that leslie millwee, a former arkansas tv reporter, claims that thengovernor clinton sexually assaulted her three times in 1980. Breitbart is led by steve bannon, whos currently running trumps campaign. Trumps number two, mike pence, did not mention the report today, but in durango, colorado, he argued that his man is set to deliver a strong performance. What he needs to do tonight you sure saw that on the stage in his last debate, a week ago sunday, didnt you when he beat Hillary Clinton handsdown. And i promise you, im going to get on an airplane, im headed to vegas, because youre going to see it happen again tonight. Reporter fox news Chris Wallace will moderate the 90 minute debate on these six topics, in 15 minute segments debt and entitlements; immigration; the economy; the supreme court; foreign hot spots; and fitness to be president. And on the sidelines, psychological warfare. The Trump Campaign has invited malik obama, but denies its trying to resurrect claims that his halfbrother the president was born in kenya. Trump also invited patricia smith, whose son died in the attack on the u. S. Diplomatic compound in benghazi, libya. The clinton camp has two business figures attending, whove been highly critical of trump former Hewlett Packard c. E. O. Meg whitman and billionaire mark cuban. Traditionally the third and last two baits will be with the candidates sitting at a table together for a more intimate setting. But tonight a change. The two candidates will be at lecterns for a more formal setting. Its not clear who asked for it, but both campaigns agreed to the change. You want to know about those hard feelings dont expect a handshake tonight when the two families are introduced into the hall. Hari . Sreenivasan john, what about the the preparations . How did the candidates prepare today . Yang well, Hillary Clinton has been true to form, the same way she has prepared in the last two debates. She flew in last night. Shes at the Four Seasons Hotel here in las vegas doing several hours of debate prep on debate day, getting the lastminute debate preps in. Her entire debate team flew in include felipe who has been standing in for donald trump. Donald trump is a little bit of change, he acquiesced to advisors who wanted a more and formal debate prep but still no mock debates. This morning Kellyanne Conway the Campaign Manager was asked what her advice would be to her candidate, she said focus. Sreenivasan nevadans are used to the showdowns. Wrowive reporting there. Are people in the state cognizant of how important their state could be in the grand scheme of things. Yang i think they are. I think they understand this is a state that voted for the winner in the white house in every campaign except one since 1908. There is a great deal of excitement. You talk about the heavy weight prize fights, the stunts like evil knievel jumping over the fountain at caesars palace, a lot of people will be watching. Sreenivasan john yang, thank you. Woodruff in the days other news, a top iraqi commander called for the surrender of mosul, on day three of the offensive to retake the city. The general estimated up to 6,000 Islamic State fighters remain in mosul, putting up fierce resistance. Coalition air strikes blasted isis positions today, as iraqi and kurdish Ground Forces kept pushing closer. translated from this place i appeal to all local fighters with the Islamic State group to lay down their weapons in order not risk their lives, so they can return to their families and their city. Our forces are advancing and have surrounded the city. The liberation of mosul will be swift. Woodruff meanwhile, the humanitarian group save the children reported at least 5,000 people have fled the mosul area in the last ten days. Sreenivasan a man dressed in an afghan army uniform killed two americans in kabul today one military, one civilian. Three other americans were wounded. The attacker was killed later. Nato said the u. S. Victims were involved in training and advising Afghan Security forces. Woodruff in syria, relative quiet reigned in eastern aleppo for a second day, as russian and Syrian Forces made ready to let rebels and civilians leave the city tomorrow. The United Nations likened the plan to forced displacement. Russia said tomorrows planned ceasefire will now last 11 hours, instead of eight. Sreenivasan a protest outside the u. S. Embassy in the philippines erupted into violence today. About 1,000 activists called for an end to military cooperation with the u. S. Street battles with police broke out, and a police truck drove into the crowds repeatedly. At least ten people were injured. Woodruff it took 16 years of negotiating, but the u. N. Childrens fund has reached a deal to cut the price of a crucial, childhood vaccine in half. One shot protects against diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis, hepatitis b, and a type of influenza. Unicef plans to send 450 million doses to 80 countries by 2020. Sreenivasan back in this country, professors from 14 Pennsylvania State colleges went on strike today, affecting more than 100,000 students. It stems from a contract dispute over benefits and wages. Some of the states largest schools, including penn state and the university of pittsburgh, are not affected. Woodruff and, a relatively quiet day on wall street. The Dow Jones Industrial average gained 40 points to close at 18,202. The nasdaq rose two points, and the s p 500 added four. Sreenivasan still to come on the newshour why ecuador cut off Julian Assanges internet; undercover videos that claim democrats are rigging the election put in context; a look ahead to tonights final president ial debate, and much more. Sreenivasan for the last four years, Julian Assange, the founder of wikileaks the antisecrecy group has been staying in selfimposed exile in the Ecuadorian Embassy in london. Hes taking refuge from a Sexual Assault investigation in sweden that assange claims is an american plot to have him extradited. Over the summer, wikileaks began divulging thousands of pages of documents and emails stolen from the Democratic National committee, and most recently, Hillary Clintons campaign chairman, all in an effort said assange himself to damage her president ial candidacy. Now, a new twist in this saga in a Statement Issued yesterday, ecuador said it had cut off assanges Internet Access, saying in part the government of ecuador respects the principle of nonintervention in the internal affairs of other states. It does not interfere in external electoral processes, nor does it favor any particular candidate. For more on this, im joined from london by raphael zatter of the Associated Press. Is there anything more to it than that statement by the ecuadorian government . You know, its not much more official. There is an enormous amount of speculation about whats going on behind the scenes. Wikileaks alleges that, despite what the ecuadorian government has said, they are, in fact, bound to pressure from the u. S. State department and, in particular, john kerry the secretary of state. Now, the state department denied all this. Sreenivasan the batches of emails have been trickling out for months. Hillary clintons emails, John Podestas emails for months. Why intervene now to cut off his Internet Access in. Its quite puzzling. The timing is a bit of a mystery. The best people to speak about this are the parties concerned themselves, but neither wikileaks nor the ecuadorian nor various ecuadorian officials weve tried have returned our calls or commented. They have communicated via twitter or through their web sites in a series of terse statements which leave a lot to the imagination, frankly. Sreenivasan is this a sign Julian Assange is overstaying his welcome . I believe people speculated how long julian could stay at te Ecuadorian Embassy in london ever since h he came in there. The ecuadorians said assange is still welcome to stay as long as the reasons he sought asylum remain the say. Doesnt doesnt seem like he will get thrown out soon. There have been rupeers of tension tweens assange and his hosts and conceivably this could be a sign of that. Sreenivasan the ecuadorians must recognize cutting off Internet Access to Julian Assange doesnt mean they shut down wikileaks. I think they realized that and took pains to point that out in their statement. They said they dont intend to interfere with wikileaks journalistic activities and wikileaks continued to publish and quite aggressively. Seems, for the moment at least, this internet ban has not hurt wikileaks ability to publish documents. Sreenivasan no word on whether or not Julian Assange could borrow someones laptop to get instructions across or over a telephone . Dollar lot of Unanswered Questions here. The ecuadorians were rather vague in their statement. They said they were restricting his Internet Access. That could conceivably mean a lieutenant of things. That could mean that he can use the internet for some things and not others, or it could mean hes been kicked off the internet altogether. Its not clear and no ones answered our questions whether Julian Assange can make phone calls, send text messages, send courier messages back and forth. Sreenivasan he had a fairly robust infrastructure. He was able to take part in interviews around the world, including on this program a couple of months ago. Yes. I dont think there is any reason to believe that infrastructure has gone. The Ecuadorian Embassy is not a very large space. Its a rather modest suite on roughly the ground floor of a red brick building on hans crescent near the Heritage Department store. Not a huge amount of space but enough to do tv interviews, to have journalists over every once in a while and even host celebrity guests. Sreenivasan raphael zatter from the Associated Press joining us from london tonight. Thanks so much for joining us. Thank you for having me. Sreenivasan wikileaks is not the only Online Organization making political news. Lisa desjardins takes a closer look at a new release that also targets democrats. Reporter the videos are from a conservative group famous and infamous for undercover videos. More on them in a minute, but lets start with the content. There are two videos, and two allegations against democrats. The first, that operatives for the left especially this man, scott foval have sent people to trump rallies to incite violence. To an undercover operative, foval says there is a script. Its a matter of showing up, to want to get into the rally in a planned parenthood tshirt or trump is a nazi. You can message to draw them out and draw them to punch you. Reporter foval is a democratic consultant who recently worked with a group called mobilize, hired by the Democratic Party in june. Its not clear when the video was recorded, but foval says he works directly with the party and the Clinton Campaign. I answer to the head of special events for the d. N. C. , and the head of special events and political for the campaign. Reporter the d. N. C. Flatly says foval was a subcontractor and denies supporting anything like what foval described. But what do we know from actual events on the campaign trail . Remember this . The clash of protesters, supporters and police in march in chicago . It led to donald trump canceling a rally. On the tape, another democratic operative brings it up. Reporter thats the first charge. And before we go to the second a quick word about whos behind these videos. His name is james okeefe, a conservative whose group, project veritas action, investigates leftleaning entities. Hes been arrested and pled guilty for some undercover tactics in the past. Okeefe insists his work is accurate including the second charge in these videos, about voter fraud. Scott foval seems to talk openly about bringing in people from one state to vote in another. He mentions creating paychecks and finding cars with instate license plates. Reporter at one point, he stresses the need to avoid prosecution. But thats not what his boss says. Bob creamer heads up mobilize, and contracted directly for the Democratic Party. In the video, he pushes back at an idea to affect voting. Reporter today, the head of the Democratic National party released a statement, saying we do not believe nor do we have any evidence to suggest that the activities alleged occurred. The Clinton Campaign also gave us a statement, saying that those behind the video are known to be misleading but that they disavow the ideas and tactics in the video calling them troubling, even as a theory. One problem here is we do not have the raw footage from these tapes we do not have the context for many of these words. We do know this scott foval has been fired from his job. And his boss, bob creamer, has ended his work on the election this year, saying he does not want to be a distraction. For the pbs newshour, im Lisa Desjardins. Woodruff and we turn now to preview tonights debate with representatives from both campaigns. We start with donald trump supporter dr. Ben carson. I spoke with him earlier this evening, and began by asking what donald trump needs to do tonight to combat declining polls, including in key battleground states. I hope hes going to spend a lot of time talking about the issues that really concern the American People the economy, jobs, education, immigration, our standing in the world and how we relate to the various problems that are going on in the world and then i hope he will probably also high light some of the things that have come out, you know, in recent weeks about Hillary Clinton that many in the news have not bothered to report on. Woodruff are you referring to the wikileaks stories . Yes. Woodruff so what, specifically . Well, i dont think theres been a lot of emphasis on, you know, the fact that she and her staff have kind of savaged, you know, bernie sanders, have talked about catholics and evangelicals in a way thats perhaps not becoming to the leadership of this country, where were supposed to have freedom of speech, freedom of religion and freedom of election. Woodruff were told donald trump is inviting several guests to the debate including a mother of a state contractor who died at benghazi, libya, and a woman for the first time going public accusing bill clinton of sexually assaulting her in arkansas in 1980. Is this where you think the focus should be . I would love to see this put off to the side. Thats why we have a legal system so those kind of things coul be addressed. It goes for both sides. I would much prefer to see a talk on the issues because the issues are gigantic, and the solutions are incredibly divergent, and yet i doubt that the average person on the street could tell you the difference between the two because we just havent heard the discussion. We just hear about all these these other things. Woodruff did you urge donald trump not to invite these individuals . We know hes also inviting the family members of rid who were killed by undocumented immigrants. Hes invited the half brother of president obama, who is supporting donald trump. I didnt have anything to do with whos invited and whos not invited, but we certainly have talked about the issues, and i think thats really what the American People deserve to hear about, you know, particularly when were talking about the future. Were talking about our children and our grandchildren. We need to be talking about their financial foundation, and we need to be talking about safety for them. We need to be talking about ways that we can decrease the tension in our society, because a house divided against itself cannot stand. Woodruff we know one of the things donald trump has been talking about repeatedly on the campaign trail lately is he says the election will be rigged and talking about rampant voter fraud. Do you expect that to happen . Well, i do know of many instances where things have not been good and not just recently but this is going back for quite a period of time, and its always baffled me why we dont try to fix it. You know, for instance, when it comes to the ballots, its such an easy thing to photograph a ballot each time a person comes in so you have a backup system so that if something comes out and its vair want to what you thought it should be, you have a way of checking it. These are easy things to remedy if we want to do it. For some reason we dont want to do it. Woodruff one of the reasons im asking is his Campaign Manager Kellyanne Conway said this morning in an interview on cnn he does not think there is going to be widespread voter fraud, so which is right . It really doesnt matter what anybody thinks. What does matter is we decide were going to fix it. We can send a man to the moon but we cant verify something as simple as an election . Of course, we could do it, if we had the will to do it. So that, to me, makes a lot more sense than any of the arguments on one side or the other side. Just fix it. Woodruff dr. Carson, we heard donald trump say in a peach in the last few days that if he does not win this election that the United States loses its independence. He talked about dire circumstances, if he doesnt win. Is that how you see whats at stake here . Well, ive heard both sides, you know, make that claim, and, you know, certainly theyre entitled to their opinion. Im hopeful that the American People are wise enough to guide us through the difficult times that lay ahead for us. Were going to have difficult times either way because of the amount of debt that weve incurred, because of the radical islamic terrorists who want to destroy us. There are a lot of problems that wont go away regardless of whos elected that we will have to deal with. Woodruff dr. Ben carson joining us from las vegas at the debate site. Thank you for being with us. Wonderful to be with you. Woodruff and now we turn to robby mook, Campaign Manager for Hillary Clinton. Again, robby mook, first of all, we know Hillary Clinton is doing well in the polls, so what does she need to do tonight . Can she just rest on her laurels and sit back and not take any chances . Well, not at all, judy. First of all, our campaign doesnt take anything for granted. We run like were 20 points behind no matter what, but more importantly, this debate is a terrific opportunity for hillary to speak directly to the American People in an unfiltered way about the real plans se has to make a difference in their lives. This election is supposed to be about the American People, their future, and the candidates are supposed to be on that stage proving they can actually make a difference and improve peoples lives. So thats what we hope this debate is about. Hillarys come prepared to the last two debates, shes going to come prepared to this debate to have a substantive discussion of the issues. Woodruff we know, robby mook, donald trump invited a number of individuals to be his guests tonight including a woman coming forward the first time to charge bill clinton sexually assaulted her . 1980. Hes invited the mother of the man, the state Department Contractor who died at benghazi. How will she handle this if it comes up in the debate . Well, first of all, judy, as i said, hillarys come to these debates consistently prepared to talk about tissues, donald trump has not. We saw him him pull a Media Opportunity before the last debate. Hes trying to use the tickets hes give ton invite special guests to pull more stunts and were just not going to get into that and hillarys not going to get into that. I think the American People deserve to hear substantive answers to real questions about real policies, Real Solutions and what these people really will do if they get the job as president. So shes not going to get thrown off her game. Donald trump gets to run the campaign he wants to run, thats his right. Hillary will focus on what matters to voters. Woodruff in connection with that, the Trump Campaign has been talking about and donald trump brought up the f. B. I. Report that came out that shows there is a conversation between the state department and f. B. I. About whether to lower classification of one of hillarys emails in exchange for giving f. B. I. Employees more of a chance to hold jobs overseas, a quid pro quo. If that comes up, will she have an answer to that . Well, i think she will have an answer as to what her policies will be as president on this issue. I think this is an interagency dispute or interagency conversation that was going on. The state department denied there was any sort of quid pro quo, so has the f. B. I. , so has the white house. Theyve said this is just not true. And again, its very commonplace for agencies to have disagreements over classifications. Thats what was happening here, and im going to leave it to those departments to talk about that, and obviously, as president hillary would have a role in determining how things are classified and if shes asked about that, she will be ready to answer that question. Woodruff Something Else thats come up in the last day or so, robby mook, are the videotapes prepared by james okeefe, our reporter Lisa Desjardins just did a report a few minutes ago on the program about them. We know individuals have been fired from their jobs as a result. Essentially, it had to do with working to rig elections, rig voter turnout and, also, arrange to disrupt Donald Trumps rallies. How is your camp how do you see this evidence that clearly something was either done or was at least talked about during this Campaign Cycle . Well, the person in question is a long discredited conservative activist who claims to be a journalist. Look, whats really disappointing here, judy, is that donald trump is losing this race, and he is trying to blame everyone else except himself for his loss, so hes setting up a situation in which he can claim the election was rigged and people didnt actually vote against him. The fact is the longer this election goes on, the more people hear from donald trump, the more of the racism, the bigotry, the disrespect towards women, the more they learn about his past, the way hes treated women, the the more that people are leaving him. The fact of the matter that hes struggling to win the state of utah right now really says all we need to know. This election is not going to be rigged. Republican secretaries of state are the ones running this election by and large. Republican secretaries of state are the ones coming out saying this is not rigged, asking donald trump to stop speaking this way. The fact of the matter is were seeing higher voter turnout than in the 2012 cycle particularly wean we look at vote by mail in states like florida, north carolina. We think this will be the biggest election in our history. We think more people will vote than ever before. We heard the voter rolls passed 200 Million People in this country. That would be historic if thats the case. I think donald trump should worry about winning at the polls, let the people go to follows and let their voices with heard in this historical turnout election. Woodruff something he raised in the first debate is Hillary Clinton has been in the public arena for 30 years yet taxes are up, terrorism spread, jobs vanished and so on. What is our answer to that question . I hope hillary gets a clans to talk a chance to talk about her record on the debate stage because i would put her record up against anyone, particularly donald trump. Hillary spent three decades fighting for children and families ever since she left law school. She fought to get the American Defense fund. She worked with republicans and democrats until she got the Childrens Health Insurance Program which covers 8 million children in this country. She negotiated an historic reduction in Nuclear Weapons with russia. If we look at Donald Trumps record, this is a man who is sued repeatedly for racial housing discrimination, a record of not paying his contractors, not paying lowwage workers. Then we just saw over the last two weeks women speaking out that they were demeaned and disrespected. If donald trump wants to have a conversation about the history of these candidates and whos been fighting for working people, whos been fighting for the rights of women, we welcome that discussion. Hillary clinton will win that hands down. Woodruff well find out in about two and a half hours. Robby mook, Campaign Manager for Hillary Clinton. Thank you, robby. Thank woodruff and for more on tonights debate, we are joined by syndicated columnist mark shields, david brooks, columnist for the new york times, and amy walter of the cook political report. We will show you when we say your name. laughter looking better, already. Woodruff all of you are looking really good. So, mark, given this atmosphere, what are you expecting tonight . It amazes me i mean, just to review donald trump won 41 contests. He won every big state save that of john kasichs and ted cruzs home states. Outpolled nearest by 2 to is as the antiestablishment candidate, the candidate of change, the candidate of the forgotten and overlooked americans, taking on the established wi wisdom of the conservative in this country and he dropped it all. Hes just been in the weeds and terrible stuff. Hes allowed himself to to become the issue in the campaign instead of making change his opponent who says hes been in the arena 30 years. I dont know what to expect. Ben carson said it well. The election is about the voters. If anything, the Trump Campaign has not paid it about the voters in the last two weeks. Sreenivasan david, is there an undecided voter left that these folks will go out and make their case . This is one of the largest stages they have all year long. If theyre undecided theyre not smart enough to run the Remote Control so they wont watch the debate. As trump made himself the subject of this campaign, unlike the primary season, the polls moved. So that means whether decided or undecided, there are people willing to be driven away by him and they think i vote for the guy because hes a change engine but i think hes a jerk. But as the jerk factor raises, the votes shift. Im more concerned less about the two candidates than the whole country. The campaign has been so degrading and so many people around the country are just in such poor spirits, its as if we suffered a revaluation or renorming of whats acceptable. At the same time our standards are degraded by this campaign, some people are reacting the other way and saying its time to establish a sense of decency. Woodruff amy, what does Hillary Clinton need to do . Well, i completely concur with what david said. I think thats exactly where she needs to go. The first debate, her goal was to get underneath trumps skin, make the focus about him, and he played the part brilliantly. He took the bait, he went into these rabbit holes. He completely exploded and, of course, the next day, continued to unravel with the tweets against the miss universe. The second debate for her was Holding Strong in the face of a very aggressive donald trump, in the face of the press conference that came before him featuring the women who had made allegations against her husband. This is the chance she has to close this campaign with a positive message and a positive vision for the country, to give people a reason to vote for her not just to vote against donald trump. And shes going to come under fire. There is no doubt donald trump is going to once again make an aggressive push to put her on the defensive. Shes going to have to answer that. But i think to close the deal here, she needs to make people feel comfortable with her as president and comfortable with how shes going to bring this country back from what has been incredibly divisive campaign. Sreenivasan mark shields, is there any incentive either of the candidates have to take the high road in seems with the social media and these onstage moments, theyre rewarded for going lower and lower. Yeah, i think there is because what mark said closest to election day, if i were Hillary Clinton tonight, i would say if, in fact, i do lose, i hope that i will have the grace and decency and sense of patriotism that the man said eight years ago when he lost and he said, i had the honor of calling senator barack obama to congratulate him of being elected the next president of the country we both love. I wish gods speed to the man who was my former opponent and will be my president. It sounds almost biblical, shakespearean. I think if Hillary Clinton is capable of doing that tonight, reminding us of what we have done and what we have within able to do, after very heated campaigns. I agree with david and amy, it would be great to have better politics. When you get a report like lisas, thats evocative of 1972 and dirty tricks. If its valid, its to provoke a reaction and to start political struggle. It should be said hillary taking the high road two, problems with that. One is the high road has been a laundry list of programs, hasnt actually been a vision or something personal or emotionald thing in lisas report is that weve taken Barack Obamas nonscandal administration for granted and that has never been the nature of Hillary Clintons campaign or life, at least for the past 30 years. Theres always been a wave of scandal and sometimes involving her but often involving people around her and, for some reason and, again, we dont know the complete substance of these allegations but that kind of behavior is the lowrent sort of behavior that sometimes, you know, would not be an insult to kick morris who she brought back into the white house twice. So thats just been part of her group. So thats the moral injury in this campaign is not all on one side. Woodruff and amy, thats something that shes gotten accustomed to having to talk about. Thats exactly what republicans want donald trump to focus on tonight. Look, if youre a republican not involved with the donald Trump Campaign, you are just hoping that what donald trump does is put the focused back on her, put her on the defensive, remind people about the years of scandal, what it would feel like to have another clinton in the white house, remind them of the 90s and the current scandals with hillary and the email server and to help stop the downballot drop. The greatest fear republicans have now is that donald trump, as his numbers are fallen, theyre terrified they will lose seats downballot. Woodruff we will reassemble 9 00 eastern all of you. Well be back with mark, david and amy with special live coverage of the final deintait starting at 9 00 eastern. Plus, well be providing debate analysis and factchecking on our website, www. Pbs. Org newshour. And in the meantime, you can watch every president ial and Vice President ial debate since 1960 on our new website, www. Watchthedebates. Org. Senator , youre not jack kennedy. Binders full of women. I opposed the Death Penalty during all my life. Interact with all the general bates. Org. Tch theon our sreenivasan sreenivasan we turn now to our series on issues shaping this election. Tonight, what will our next president do about this countrys Justice System . Hillary clinton has pointed to reducing racial bias and over incarceration. Here she was at the first president ial debate, more than three weeks ago too many Young African its just a fact that if youre a Young African american man, and you do the same thing as a young white man, you are more likely to be arrested, charged, convicted, and incarcerated. So weve got to address the systemic racism in our criminal Justice System. We cannot just say law and order. We have to say we have to come forward with a plan, that is going to divert people from the criminal Justice System, deal with mandatory minimum sentences, which have put too many people away for too long for doing too little. Sreenivasan for his part, president obama has stepped up the use of his clemency powers in the last year. In 2016, hes shortened some 590 sentences almost all of them for nonviolent drugrelated crimes. Thats not how donald trump has described the effort. He told an audience last weekend that the white house is, in his words, steadily dismantling the federal criminal Justice System. Heres more from that event, in New Hampshire president obama has commuted the sentences of record numbers of high level drug traffickers can you believe this . Many of them kingpins, and violent armed traffickers with extensive criminal histories and records. Hillary clinton promises to continue and expand this approach, turning our streets back over to gangs, drug cartels and armed career criminals, that were not going to get out of our country. I want everything to be law, and order, and justice, and everything perfect. Everything perfect. Sreenivasan we dig in to the issue of law and order in this campaign. Again to Lisa Desjardins. She recorded this conversation yesterday. Desjardins to discuss all this, were joined by leah wright rigueur, shes a professor at harvard, focusing on american history, race, civil rights and the presidency; and david harris, professor of law at the university of pittsburgh. He studies police behavior, law enforcement, and the law more broadly. Welcome to you both. David, i want to start with criminal Justice Reform. The idea generally is perhaps we have too many people in prison for too long. Where do these two candidates stand on criminal Justice Reform . Mr. Trump has not said much about mass incarceration. His platform of criminal justice seems to center on the idea of law and order generally on getting tougher, using stop and frisk and racial profiling. Mrs. Clinton has a different take on these things. Shes very much putting on the forefront of her campaign the idea of getting rid or cutting back on mass incarceration and particularly on improving the relations between police and the communities they serve, particularly people of color. You heard her in the first debate talking about implicit bias. This is one of her main planks in her criminal justice platform. Leah wright rigueur heard donald trump say over the weekend he thinks the idea of commuting some of the drug sentences may be helping the Opioid Crisis and putting more drug traffickers on the street. The past history of both candidates when it comes to crime in america, leah wright rigueur . The approach donald trump is taking, in fact, breaking with the new direction of the Republican Party which has been to take a gentler approach on issues of drugs and even on mass incarceration. He built himself as the law and order candidate, but what law and order means, largely, for him is watching, surveying, surveillance, control, and its really about an intervention of the state on behalf of controlling crime. That is radical in some ways, and hes really marking himself as a kind of new, soupedup richard nixon. Now, the interesting thing here is trumps history really does play into this. The most obvious example is the central park 5ks where he called for harsh draconian law imposed on men found to be innocent. Even after they were found innocent he doubled down and in fact last week doubled down on where he was standing, doubled down on his approach on how these men should have been treated. Hillary clinton, still averse to the law and order thing, many people are familiar with her because of her language around the super predators and mass incarceration in the crime bill, weve seen a willingness to shift in the direction of more progressive policies, not so much with donald trump who seems to have doubled down even harder from where he stood many years ago. Its so interesting we have two candidates who have been tough on crime but seem to be going in different directions. David harris, donald trump says he need to increase police power and numbers. What do we know about what that does and does that work . These are two different things. Police power and police numbers. We know that in a police department, having more officers can allow police to serve communities better, but it depends very much on how they are used, how they are deployed and how well they are trained. So numbers by themselves dont make a difference. Increasing police powers, thats a whole other thing, and i think we have been through an era from the 1980sforward where police power, especially in crime on the streets kind of issues, police cow per has been increased and discretion opened more to the point police have very great power to stop people, to frisk people, to make traffic stops and turn them into drug investigations. All of these things are signs of very great police power and weve reached a point where i think most people acknowledge that there need to be some limits. But in some cases, more police on the street does help. Its just how you deploy it. Is that what youre saying . Yes, very much. You can put numbers on the street, and it may help, but numbers alone never make for success. Its how you use the resources you have, including, most importantly, your human resources, your police officers. If they are well trained, they have good communication skills, relate well to the community, you can build something. You can build relationships. Thats where all good policing starts, with relationships, with communities. In the short time we have left, ill ask you all, this is a daily topic for many americans. I have been amazed there have been very little headlines in terms of the Political Campaign in terms of crime and justice. Where are we when it comes to crime and justice in america. Its very important. Trump is having a larger conversation that is largely about control. He plannings to connect the idea about law and order and policing to other ideas like rigged elections which is a very troubling area hes moved into. I also think its worth considering how Hillary Clinton thinks about and how her campaign thought about policing inequality and justice. So i mentioned before shes conversed in a number of different ways and weve seen tensions between social and political movements that have come off the ground, but, at the same time, weve seen a pushing and willingness and ability to move and shift on these important issues. All right, david harris of the university of pittsburgh and leah wright rigueur of harvard. Thank you both for joining us. Thank you for having us. Sreenivasan we know you care about the issues this election. Find all of our coverage on where the candidates stand on various topics, from Climate Change to isis, on our website, www. Pbs. Org newshour. Woodruff now, a look at trying to clean up the water supply in the countrys heartland. For decades, American Farmers have been applying nitrogen fertilizer in some cases too generously to crops. Much of that fertilizer has found its way into runoff, contaminating Water Supplies and forcing many communities to invest heavily in Water Treatment plants. From net in nebraska, ariana brochas of harvest public media reports on new technologies farmers are using to reduce contamination from their fields. Its part of our series about the leading edge of science and tech. Reporter when university of nebraska professor Richard Ferguson looks at a corn field, he has no illusions. To profitably produce corn in nebraska, we have to apply nitrogen fertilizer. In many cases, in the past, we applied more than we really need. Reporter ferguson is seeking his experiment, called project sense, aims to reduce the chance that excess nitrogen will get into the groundwater and save farmers money. If we can make them more money by use of sensor technology, we think thats something they would adopt. Reporter project sense is being put to the test in areas where groundwater nitrate levels are high. Today, its at the seim family farm, in central nebraska. The machines arms have sensors that gauge how much nitrogen the plants need. A computer fires applicators to deliver fertilizerpractically feeding plants one by one. For anthony seim, sense is another tool for his family to try. I dont think theres any farmer that wakes up in the morning, says im just going to go dump a thousand gallons of fertilizer down the ditch. Everybodys trying. Its just that it doesnt always work. Theres a lot of things that we cant control, weather being the biggest one. Reporter anthony and his brothers have adopted their fathers ideology of progressive farming. Like many farmers, ken seim used to put nearly all his fertilizer on the ground before the crops were even planted. Today, we apply everything in we call it spoon feeding, which is a term for just a little bit at a time. Reporter project sense is the ultimate example of spoon feeding. But noah seim says they are combating sandy, porous soil. Its called chemigation, or fertigation, and its less precise, but also less expensive, than project sense. By using a center pivot hooked up to a fertilizer tank, they control fertilizer application as they water. Across the Missouri River in iowa, you wont find many center pivots. Here, they rely on good soil and rain. We got a threeinch rain, 24 hours or 48 hours ago, but you can see how the water didnt come down and leave a channel through my field. Reporter dick sloan farms in eastern iowa, near cedar rapids. Here, systems of underground pipe or tiles drain excess water off fields. But those tiles also carry fertilizer and pesticides and drain directly into nearby streams and rivers. This kind of field runoff isnt regulated, and iowa has some of the worst Water Pollution in the midwest. Sloan uses notill and cover crops to help slow and filter water before it gets to his tiles. You can see how everythings kind of knitted together. Its still hooked on. Reporter he also plants prairie strips. As water moves down across the field, it encounters this contoured strip across the field that the water has to flow through. That will stop any residue from getting through there and help filter the water better, and have less water getting polluted as it goes down to the cedar river from here and then on down to the mississippi and down to the gulf, so thats the hope. Reporter former iowa Extension Agent chad ingels has worked with farmers like dick sloan on field practices to improve Water Quality in northeast iowa. One new tool is something you cant see. Its called a bioreactor. The water from this field would normally dump into the ditch behind us. Instead, its diverted through this structure. Inside, there are a series of gates that force the water into the bioreactor, which is under this grassy area. The bioreactor is 100 feet long and 30 feet wide and is filled with woodchips. Reporter the nitrateladen water that passes through the woodchips gets cleaned by microbes that turn the nitrates back into nitrogen gas. I think almost every field needs some kind of practice, whether its a bioreactor, no till, reduced tillage, just better nitrogen or phosphorus management. Reporter craig cox with the Environmental Working Group in ames, iowa, agrees that every field needs some sort of management. But he says voluntary measures dont work. Otherwise, the water would be in a lot better shape than it is. Reporter in the last decade, the federal government has spent more than 3 billion to support measures that reduce Water Pollution from iowa farms. The Environmental Working Group monitored the use of two conservation practices over a five year period and found the net gain was negligible. Heres the good news story. We got a buffer, a new buffer. But heres the bad news story. Right . We had a buffer, and we dont have a buffer anymore. Reporter cox says some standard conservation practices should be required of all farmers, but dick sloan says his field practices cant be mandated on his neighbors. People have a natural negative reaction to regulation. Anybody would. Farmers are just so much like everybody else. Its going to take time for them to question what theyre doing. Farmers are very independent, but if we wont be stewards ourselves, someone will have to help us be a steward. This is a solvable problem. Its just everyone has to do their part. One thing i always tell people when i work with them, if you can make me better at what im doing, im in. Reporter for the pbs newshour, im ariana brochas, in lincoln, nebraska. Sreenivasan and thats the newshour for now. Im hari sreenivasan. Woodruff and im judy woodruff. We will see you online and right back here at 9 00 p. M. Eastern for our special live debate coverage. For all of us at the pbs newshour, thank you, and good night. 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