Transcripts For KQED PBS NewsHour 20140731

To come back and do something. To be part of this Incredible Community that has against all odds has found a way to reclaim this land and turn it into the festival site that it once was. Ifill those are just some of the stories were covering on tonights pbs newshour. Major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by ive been around long enough to recognize the people who are out there owning it. The ones getting involved, staying engaged. They are not afraid to question the path theyre on. Because the one question they never want to ask is, how did i end up here . I started schwab with those people. People who want to take ownership of their investments, like they do in every other aspect of their lives. And with the ongoing support of these institutions this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. And by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. Thank you. Set to start friday. All parties have agreed to it. This comes after 23 days of fighting. The death toll on each side now surpassing the last gaza conflict five years ago. 1,422 p 1,422 palestinians and 59 israelis, most of them soldiers, have been killed in this months fighting. We look at the events of the day. Plumes of smoke mingled with sunrise above gaza city. Mosques were once again a target. Remnants of one stood amid its own rubble following an israeli airstrike. Elsewhere, firefighters doused flames after another strike reduced homes to a debrisfilled crater. And in northern gaza, 30 people, mostly children, were evacuated from a United Nations school after israeli tank shells landed nearby. This, a day after 19 people died when israeli shells struck a similar school sheltering more than 3 thousand palestinian refugees. But warning sirens also blared in israel. The Israeli Military said more than 60 rockets were fired at israel from within gaza today, only moderate injuries were reported. Threeandahalf weeks into this latest israelgaza war, the u. N. Human rights commissioner navi pillay accused both israel and hamas of committing war crimes, but reserved her harshest words for israel. The shelling of houses directly means a violation of israels obligation to protect the right to housing, right to food, right to clean water of gazans, even as, under its obligation as an occupying force. And therefore i would say that they appear to be defying, deliberate defiance of obligations that International Law imposes on israel. Woodruff meanwhile in washington, the White House Press secretary, while defending israel, said it needs to do more to protect civilians. But the shelling of a u. N. Facility that is housing innocent civilians who are fleeing violence is totally unacceptable. And totally indefensible. Woodruff but israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu brushed aside such comments after a security cabinet meeting. translated so far we neutralized scores of terror tunnels and we are determined to complete this mission with or without a ceasefire. Therefore, i wont agree to any proposal that will not enable the Israeli Military to finish this important task. Woodruff to supplement the ongoing campaign, the Israeli Military today called up another 16,000 reservist forces. It also released two videos. The first, it claimed showed militant rockets being launched from Populated Areas of gaza towards israel. The other, footage of a tunnel entrance and weapons purportedly discovered in a gaza strip mosque by Israeli Defense forces. Narration claims i. D. F. Personnel fought with five militants at the site. Ifill a team of investigators finally reached Malaysian Airlines crash site today. Fighting was ceased for a day to they could get through. The experts were escorted by armed troops and armored vehicles. One of their tasks is to bring back victims remains and personal belongings. Dozens of bodies have yet to be retrieved. The head of the European Monitoring Mission voiced hope his team could return regularly. We succeeded today getting dna samples from 25 victims. We now have the personal belongings of 27 victims in our position. The belongings and the dna samples were in the mortuary in donetsk and have been handed over to the dutch and australian experts. Ifill all 298 passengers and crew members aboard the flight were killed when a missile brought the plane down two weeks ago. Woodruff 729 people in west africa have now died from the worst Ebola Outbreak on record. The World Health Organization estimates 57 of those deaths happened over a threeday time period last week. U. S. Health officials warned americans not to travel to guinea, liberia and sierra leone. And travelers around the globe were under new scrutiny. In china, airports began screening passengers body temperatures using thermal scanners. Ifill stocks plunged on wall street today, and erasing nearly all of this months gains. It was largely attributed to jitters over europes economic woes and a jump in u. S. Labor costs. The Dow Jones Industrial average posted its first monthly decline since january plummeting 317 points to close at 16,563; the nasdaq fell 93 points to close at 4,369; the s p 500 loston 39 points to close at 1930, posting its worst day since april. Woodruff argentina slid into its second debt default in 13 years today. The country failed to reach a deal with bondholders in down to the wire emergency meetings last night in new york. The hedge funds want full payment plus interest to the tune of a billionandahalf dollars. That left the future of the south american nations economy in question. It is already in a recession, has a shortage of dollars and has one of the highest inflation rates in the world. Ifill the director of the c. I. A. Has apologized to Senate Leaders for how Agency Employees searched their Office Computers earlier in the year. An internal c. I. A. Investigation found officers improperly accessed a classified Computer Network as they prepared a report on the c. I. A. s interrogation program. Agency director john brennan said hes convened an accountability board to look into the matter. Woodruff congress raced towards a shifting finish line it its effort to get out of town for an august recess. The house rejected the senates 8. 1 billion measure to Fund Transportation projects through the end of the year. Instead, representatives sent their own 10. 9 billion plan back to the senate. And an immigration bill in the house faltered, forcing republicans to regroup and call congressmen back to work tomorrow. Well have much more on how the border funding bill unraveled in the program. Ifill the Wisconsin Supreme Court upheld two controversial state laws today. It ruled a republican passed law requiring photo identification at the polls is legal, even though that law is currently blocked in federal court. And it upheld the 2011 law that effectively ended collective bargaining for public workers. That law led to a recall election for republican Governor Scott walker and sparked massive protests. Woodruff still to come on the newshour. Attorney general eric holder on immigration, the Death Penalty and voter i. D. Laws. A divided Congress Struggles to address the border crisis. Colleges and universities push back on legislation to combat sexual assualts on campus. Are israel and hamas abiding by the laws of war . And a colorado town picks itself up after a flood, by playing bluegrass. Ifill from Voting Rights to Border Control to the Death Penalty. The department of justice holds the reins on any number of Critical Issues central to the national debate. I sat down with attorney general eric holder the Justice Department today to talk about some of them. Thank you for joining us, mr. Attorney general. As the nations chief Law Enforcement officer, you watched yesterday as the house voted to give the speaker the right to sue the president. What were you thinking when you saw that happen . Well, i thought i was witnessing something that was more political than legal. Theres not much to that lawsuit. This is something that i would be surprised if a court finds that there is standing, and i certainly dont expect that, at the end of the day, the plaintiffs will win that case, and i think its very kind of unfortunate. The president has indicated a willingness to work with congress, but hes also indicated congress will not act and theyve not acted at historic levels, and he has to do the work of the American People, and, so, hes done things that are necessary, that are legal, and the American People want to see done. Woodruff at the same time as the house has been chastising the president for overreaching, today theyre having some trouble coming up with, as we speak, a vote on the border crisis, on the migrant issues. The question i guess i have for you is the speaker said theres no more the president can do. Is there more the president can do . Well, theres more the president can do but theres nothing we can do in the executive branch but theres a fundamental lead for us to have the funds to do these kinds of things. I want to surge Immigration Judges to the border, have more Immigration Judges at the border to process these kinds of cases but that requires money. We estimated it would take 3. 7 billion, the senate seemed to be moving around the 3 billion mark. The house was having problems coming up with 600 million. These things cost money and at some point we have to make decisions abwhats in our national interest. The president has made the determination, has been dealing with the situation on the bored, it is of national consequence and, therefore, should involve a National Response and that involves spending money. Woodruff this has been a problem since at least 2006 when attorney general gonzalez was here. Why has it taken so long . Always been money . Its not always that. We seed nor money to hire more judges and we have increased the number of judges that we have, but the backlog that we have is unacceptably high. We need more resources. We need to be able to train more judges, so thats something were working on, but we need the support of congress to get to the place we ultimately want to be. Woodruff assuming congress doesnt give you the money you asked for, how would you prioritize the needs . Is it Border Security, Immigration Judges you asked for or something else, something to deal with the needs of all these children who are crossing the rio grande coming from honduras, guatemala, el salvador . Well, if we dont get the congressional support needed, well do the best we can, well scramble and get Immigration Judges there in some form or fashion. Well probably have to use technology, television to have judges in remote locations. Well certainly make sure Border Security is assured and make sure also that whoever is crossing the border is treated in a fair and humanitarian way. Well do that with the resources that we have, but the reality is that we can certainly do a much better job and do the job the American People expect if we had the resources that we have requested. Woodruff yesterday, you expressed your intent to speak on behalf of plaintiffs in the Wisconsin Voter i. D. Case and in ohio as well. Today the Wisconsin Supreme Court upheld that law and said it is constitutional. What role can or should the federal government have of that at this point . Well, the federal government has a unique role in making sure that every citizen has the right to exercise that most fundamental of american rights, the right to vote. The 65 Voting Rights act is something we all hold dear, gutted by the shell by county decision but left certain parts of the Voting Rights in place. We used section 2 where a federal judge made the claims were valid and could not find an instance where the state could show an instance of border fraud which was kind of the underpinnings of the lawsuit, of the defense to the lawsuit in wisconsin. So were going to use section 2 as we have in other states, in North Carolina, in texas, well use it in wisconsin, well support the suits in wisconsin and ohio as well. Woodruff so this is going beyond filing court briefs . Well, at this point, i guess with regard to what weve done in wisconsin and ohio, were just filing briefs. Cases have already been filed but we are using section 2 in other places in North Carolina and texas. Those cases have been filed and are to be adjudicated. Woodruff let me ask you about something else. So much happening this week, but in this case, you have been tasked with coming up with the Death Penalty review. Weve watched the series of botched executions across the country because of use of a cocktail of drugs and theres a lot of debate about why. But the question is whether the federal government has the role to intervene in what basically is a state role. Well, we are certainly looking at our own protocol. Theres not been a federal execution in a while, theres been a moratorium. And were looking at the protocol, the cocktail, the drugs to be used if there were a federal execution. But im greatly troubled by what happened in oklahoma and in arizona, and there may not be a legalquirement for transparency and talking about, describing the drugs that are used, but you sometimes have to go beyond that which is legally required to do something that is right and for the state to exercise that greatest of all powers, to end a human life, it seems to me just on a personal level that transparency would be a good thing and to share information about what chemicals are used, what drugs are being used and it would seem to me that would be a better way to do this. Woodruff why isnt there a way of enforcing or standardizing it . Im not saying there isnt. Im saying regardless of whether there is or is not i take note of the fact Justice Kennedy made the terms the execution could proceed in spite of the fact a request was made for information about the drugs that were being used. So in spite of, you know, whether i agree or disagree with judge kennedy and wherever the courts may end up, there is an obligation, it seems to me, on the part of the executive branch charged with that responsibility to be forthcoming about the mechanism, the means by which this most serious of executive Branch Actions can be carried out. Woodruff where does the Death Penalty review youve undertaken stand now . Its underway. We have people from the civil rights division, criminal division, various other components within the department looking at our protocol and taking into account what we have seen happen in the states recently as we try to work our way through how the federal government is going to impose the Death Penalty. Woodruff Justice Department has had its plugs along the way including friending work at the f. B. I. Which has led to dubious outcomes for people who are sentenced. How do you hold states accountable when the federal got has had its own problem being held accountable . We certainly admit when we have made mistakes and when that was ide i have had as an issue, the problem with the f. B. I. Lab, what i ordered was a review done to make sure that the mistakes could be corrected and to identify all people who had been affected by those mistakes, make sure that Going Forward we dont make those kinds of mistakes again. The federal government has made mistakes, but where we find them we admit and correct them and i think set an example for the states. They should make the same kind of inquiry where they have been made mistakes and correct them as well and we have supervisory qualifications looking into what the states are doing and to the extend we find states making mistakes well point them out and try to work through those things in a ronald tear way to the extent we can and if we cant we use the power we have to bring lawsuits. Woodruff should citizens that support the Death Penalty worry youre using questions about administration of drugs and lethal injections as a way of undercutting the entire approach, the whole idea of the Death Penalty . No, we are doing what the president has asked us to do and it is a limited review of the Death Penalty and how it is imposed, when it is imposed. It is the law of the land. It is the most serious thing that i do as attorney general. I have to make determinations about when we will seek the Death Penalty and i have done that as attorney general even though i am personally opposed to the Death Penalty as attorney general, i have to enforce federal law. Woodruff attorney generic eric, thank yo attorney gene, thank you so much for your time. Ifill my conversation with the attorney general also previews a speech he plans to give tomorrow in philadelphia about sentencing reform. You can find that portion of the interview online. Woodruff as we heard, it was a confusing day on capitol hill with deep divisions over immigration and what can be done to address a surge of Migrant Children flooding across the border. Federal agencies handling the crisis say they will run out of money in midaugust if nothing is done. And lawmakers are about to leave town for a five week recess. Newshour capitol hill producer quinn bowman reports on todays politcal seesaw. All time for debate has expired. Reporter the first sign of trouble came midday, when Republican Leaders abruptly called off a vote on their border bill. But less than two hours later, House Majority whip Kevin Mccarthy informed lawmakers there still could be a vote which led to this exchange with minority whip steny hoyer. I want to advise all members that additional votes are possible today. Were going to have to call some members back. They already left under the representation that this was the last vote of the day. I would imagine that you have some members that are in that category themselves. I think it is possible to advise all members that it is possible to have votes later today. Im hopeful that by late this afternoon well be able to notify the time of it. boos reporter in a statement, g. O. P. Leaders said they will continue to work on solutions to the border crisis. But they added there are numerous steps the president can and should be taking right now, without the need for congressional action, to secure our borders and ensure these children are returned swiftly and safely to their countries. With near unanimous democratic opposition, Republican Leaders needed the support of the vast majority of their members, but many voiced skepticism of the proposal in advance of the vote. Representative mo brooks of alabama we can easily solve this problem by spending as little as 30 million a year with respect to the illegal alien children because we know, that is how much it costs to fly every illegal alien child back to their home country and reunite them with their families. Reporter the measure offered by g. O. P. Leaders would have cost 659 Million Dollars over the next two months. That total is far less than the 1. 5 billion House Republicans initially sought. Of that, some 400 million would have gone to the department of Homeland Security to boost Border Patrol operations. Another 197 million had been targeted for the department of health and human services, the agency tasked with caring for the children. The house plan also sought to change a 2008 antitrafficking law signed by president george w. Bush, it required that unaccompanied children from countries other than mexico and canada receive a hearing before deportation. The top democrat in the house, nancy pelosi of california, called the new proposal mean spirited. Lets give the children a fair shot. Lets do better than this. It is not a statement of values. It is a statement of meanness. Reporter in order to entice some conservative lawmakers to support the spending plan, g. O. P. Leaders also proposed a vote to defund president obamas Deferred Action Program. That policy, implemented by the president in 2012, protects undocumented immigrants from deportation if they were brought to the u. S. As children. Speaker boehner said his members wanted to make clear to the president they would not accept any more unilateral steps. When the president takes these actions he will be sealing deal on legacy of lawlessness. Reporter in the end, that was not enough to sway wary conservatives. On the other side of the capitol, meanwhile, senators continued debate on a 2. 7 billion plan put forward by democrats. 1 billion less than the president s request. That proposal includes spending for additional detention facilities and more Immigration Judges to process migrants. Unlike the house bill, the Senate Version does not tweak the 2008 trafficking law. But with little sign of an agreement, both sides today traded blame. Senate Minority Leader Mitch Mcconnell called on the president to step up and lead. Congress cant do it without your leadership or your engagement. Its impossible to do this without you. So pick up that phone you keep telling us about. Reporter democrat Patrick Leahy of vermont accused republicans of standing in the way of progress. It is so much easier not to do anything. Just let it sit there and say, oh, it must be president obamas fault. Oh, it must be the senates fault. Oh, it must be somebody elses fault. Oh, maybe its the fault of these six and sevenyearold children for trying to escape being killed or molested. Reporter with sharp divisions on both sides of the capitol, lawmakers appeared set to leave for a fiveweek recess with no resolution to the border crisis. Woodruff for more on todays events, the washington posts ed okeefe joins us from capitol hill. Ed, what a scene. The house Republican Leadership said they wanted a bill to deal with the border, but they couldnt get it. What happened . Well, they pulled that bill very quickly, unexpectedly earlier this afternoon, surprising everyone, including several members, as you heard, who had already headed for the airports. But after a revolt of a handful of republicans in, lets say, more purple districts, places like california, new york, pennsylvania, areas with growing latino populations, also, they confronted Kevin Mccarthy and the speaker on the floor of the house and said, no, we cant leave washington without having voted or at least trying to vote on something so they were dragged into the basement of the capitol for an emergency meeting and emerged an hour later saying they will stay overnight in washington, have another meeting tomorrow and probably vote on something at some point friday. In essence, there was a deadline, a due date, the house didnt meet it so the teacher is keeping them overnight and theyll have to do it tomorrow. Woodruff why is this important for the Republican House leadership . One, for the broader political argument of responding to president obama who asked for the money and who republicans say has created this crisis by not doing certain things. Also, you run the risk of having the president go out and doing other executive actions over the course of the august recess and republicans would turn around and say, well, here he goes again doing things on his own without talking to congress and the white house in this case could turn around and say, well, you had an opportunity to do so and you didnt and thats a valid argument. And there are dozens of republicans in swing districts, like colorado, texas, florida, new york, that if they go home not voting for something could now face more perilous reelection fights in december. I talked to a loyal republican from texas who represents a districts with a growing hispanic population and he says if i go back without having done something, without having voted on something related to this issue, he said, ill have some explaining to do. Woodruff but you also have conservative republicans who are saying absolutely, i dont want to give the president the ability to expand this, if you will, Amnesty Program for the children, the socalled dreamers, expanding it to the other children coming across. Thats right, ached weve seen all sorts of division in the republican ranks over the years whether fiscal or immigration policy and this is part of the reason why we have not yet seen this republicanled house vote on significant immigration legislation because the differences are just so big they havent been able to bridge a divide. So sometime tonight overnight Republican Leaders are supposed to meet with that group of republicans to say, no, unless youre shutting down the Deferred Action Program for the immigrants president obama put in action, or unless youre securing some parts of the border they cant vote for it. Other republicans who feel doing that kind of thing might be a bridge too far. Its a new test with the new leadership. Kevin mccarthy has risen to the majority leader position and puts him in a tricky position starting his new job. Woodruff looks like a vote tomorrow morning . Yes, the latest guidance. The senate will finish up tonight and well see if they can ged it done. Woodruff ed okeefe, washington post, thank you. Take tear, judy. Ifill one issue that did garner bipartisan support this week on capitol hill was a proposal to reduce the number of Sexual Assaults on College Campuses. Last night we heard from two senators who sponsored the bill. But some in the world of Higher Education are pushing back. Hari sreenivasan explores some of that criticism. Reporter the legislation would create steeper penalties for schools that fail to investigate reports of assault. It also features provisions to change the culture on some campuses, including requiring colleges and universities to designate confidential advisors who would provide support and information to victims. That includes guidance on how to report the crime to local Law Enforcement universities would also have to conduct annual surveys about Student Experiences with Sexual Assault and publish those results online. Anne neal is the president of the American Council of trustees and alumni. Because you dont think this legislation will help solve what we know is a serious problem. Thats right. It is a serious problem. We should all be deeply concerned about Sexual Assault but the question really is where should the onus be to deal with this problem . This legislation and other actions coming out of the department of education and the Vice President s office would put it on colleges and universities. Quite frankly, we have the criminal Justice System and Police Departments and its our contention thats where the onus should lie. We have this criminal Justice System and rather than trying to make our colleges and universities an extension of Law Enforcement, lets put the responsibility where it should be in the police room and the court. Sreenivasan you said this duplicates reporting, that there are already laws on the books that say the universities have to report the crimes. But as senator Claire Mccaskill last night pointed out, there seems to be a significant underreporting problem. The more startling statistic is 40 of the College Campuses in the country have not investigated a single case to have Sexual Assault in five years and we know this is a silent epidemic on College Campuses. Sreenivasan response to that . Again, we want transparency and want universities to report whats happening but our experience is if you allow shadow Justice Systems on campus and the allow the information to stay on the campus rather than going to enforcement authorities that youre more likely to have the university hiding whats happening than being forthright about it. Sreenivasan what is the shadow system, for folks who havent been paying attention . Well, again, this you see we have a system which has investigators trained on College Campuses, bureaucracies envisioned by this legislation that would require folks on University Campuses essentially to be investigators, jurors, executioners. They tier ones who are going to be looking into alleged violations. Were saying colleges and universities have many things and many expertise, but engaging in Law Enforcement is not one of them, and thats why its so important that we insist that the alleged victims report their problems to Law Enforcement and that the university make it very clear that that is where the onus lies. So are you concerned as senator kelly ayotte was on the program last night that some of these universities, justice is not being served with their own infrastructures put in place. Its being investigated inconsistently. We also found in some instances athletic departments were investigating them. This is totally inappropriate. There needs to be the best practices, full investigation and, obviously, victims need to be supported, which is not happening. Sreenivasan your response . That absolutely supports the point that the colleges and universities are not equipped to do good investigations and essentially to be asked to be Law Enforcement officials. Thats why we think the proper focus is in our Police Departments and our courts which is where students should go. If they have been raped, if there has been a Sexual Assault, it needs to be treated as a crime. This will allows then to give colleges and universities time to do what they do well, which is not serving as Law Enforcement but dealing with education. I think its important to remember that the Sexual Assault problem that were seeing does not occur in a vacuum and in large part is because of a lack of academic seriousness on our College Campuses, whether its curricula or anything goes, heavy drinking, binge drinking we hear about a lot, the fact many Students Start School on tuesdays and ends thursdays, is it any wonder that we have a drinking problem and the Sexual Assault that comes with it . Its time our academic administrators start focusing on the educational problems and not be forced into this difficult position for which theyre not equipped to be Law Enforcement officials on their campuses. Sreenivasan how much of the concern is cost driven in terms of how much it will cost to roll out the survey every year or train the confidential advisors . Very good question and i think this is a serious, serious concern for colleges and universities p. We know president obama has regularly raised concern about the rising cost of colleges and universities and, so, i think we have to ask ourselves what are things colleges and universities are equipped and prepared to do and therefore can bear those costs and what would it be better for other institutions and other organizations to do . And i think this is exactly one of those. Lets put colleges and universities back focusing on education rather than having to spend vast resources which are quite limited, as we all know, on training of the various bureaucrats that will be dealing with students, training trauma advisors and title 9 coordinators and the list of various bureaucrats we are going to be adding the to our College Campus goes on and on at a time when were already seeing administrative costs skyrocket. Sreenivasan anne neal, president of the council of trustees and alumni, thank you so much. Thank you. Woodruff we return now to the ongoing battle between hamas and israel. And questions being raised about whether either side is violating the laws of war. Joining us are retired Lieutenant Colonel gary solis. He had a 26 year career in the marine corps, served two tours in vietnam and became a military lawyer and judge. Hes now on the faculty at both George Washington and Georgetown University law schools. And retired Lieutenant Colonel geoffrey corn. He had a 22 year career in the army where he served as a lawyer. Hes now a professor at south Texas College of law in houston. We welcome you both to the newshour. Can you first, col. Corn, we want to talk about both sides in the conflict. Lets start with hamas. What is it you believe hamas is doing that violates International Law . Well, i think the two most obvious examples are the deliberate attack on civilian Population Centers with apparently no effort to target specific military targets in israel, just firing missiles in the direction of israeli Population Centers is a clear violation of the law and the other is locating the vital military assets within the midst of the civilian population in an apparent attempt to make it more difficult for the Israeli Defense forces to target those assets which is also a core violation of the law. Woodruff and what International Law are you referring to . Well, the International Law that im referring to and im sure my friend gary will refer to we call the law of war or is often called International Humanitarian law and its one of the oldest bodies of International Law. Many of these rules are codified in treaties that are finding on binding on nations throughout the world, including israelis, and even rules not applicable to treaty law apply to all parties of a conflict as a matter of what we call customary International Law, and there is almost universal agreement these rules apply to all sides of a conflict. Israeli and hamas collectively. Woodruff you agree these are laws this discussion is based on . Yes, entirely. Woodruff what about his points . He made two points, that they hamas is deliberately firing into civilian areas and, two, they are commingling military assets, weapons, rocket launchers with their own civilians. I think geoff is entirely correct and we see the same thing going on in israel. Woodruff but the two of you are in agreement on what hamas is doing . We are. I think hamas is in violation of law of conflict, International Humanitarian law for reasons geoff mentioned. Woodruff no ifs, ands or buts. No i. Let me turn to how you view israel, col. Corn, because you believe israel is also violating International Law . Yes, im afraid. So i think israel is violating the core principals of the law of Armed Conflict of distinction and proportionality. That is, theyre not distinguishing between military objectives and civilian objects and civilians themselves. And in regard to poprorussian that woodruff back up. Can you expand on what you mean by that . Distinction . Yes. The law of Armed Conflict says that parties to a conflict, be it an interstate on flood victir noninterstate conflict, a state on one side and Armed Opposition Group on the other, in such conflicts the parties are bound to target only combatants and not target civilians purposely or civilian objects either one. To do so is a violation of distinction, perhaps the principal core concept in if law of war and israel is not doing that. Woodruff youre saying theyre not making the distinction and should be. Col. Corn, what about that point that israel is doing . I would have to respectfully disagree with my friend gary. I think, first off, we dont have enough information to conclusively to establish that israel is violating even the distinction of proportionality. Both of these principles are applied in a fact and situationspecific context. I think there have been incidents that raise concern that there may be violations but we have to know more details about why targets were attacked, we have to have more details about what was in proximity of those targets, did hamas have military assets embedded in civilian areas and maybe even the possibility that there were mistakes made around and off course or that a soldier or pilot simply made an error. What i would say is i think we see an overall effort on the part of the i. D. F. To apply the law in good faith. Theyve issued more warnings than i can think of any professional military organization issuing in an urban attack, to my knowledge. They embed military lawyers to advise commanders on their obligations at every command. So we have to be cautious about reaching that conclusion at this point. Woodruff hes saying, one theres not enough information and, two well, you heard him. I wont repeat it. No, i disagree with geoff. I think the facts weve seen on the ground, the statements from the u. N. , the photographs weve seen are indicative of a unit, of a command that is not overly concerned with distinction, and i think the israelis have the ability to be much more discerning in their targeting and they are not, in my opinion. Woodruff why do you think they have the ability to be more discerning . Because their weaponry is nor sophisticated and advanced. They have drones and helicopters in the air. They know where they are firing their weapons and artillery is not a pinpoint system but it has the ability to hone in on specific targets, which ability is not being exercised fully. Woodruff col. Corn, what about that . Well, first off, i think if the facts play out and establish that, there needs to be an investigation of individuals who violate these rules and they should be held accountable by israelis themselves. But i would note this is the most difficult type of combat any military can engage in. Every military commander is trained from inception to avoid close combat in an urban environment at all costs. The fact that the israelis have put Ground Troops into this environment i think indicates how serious they see this strategic objective, but it also means that this is an incredibly complex and difficult tactical environment, and you cannot just look only at the effects of combat because that can provide a distorting effect on the analysis. You have to look at the entire situation to decide whether or not there was a violation. Woodruff you want to respond quickly . And then i have a final question. I simply disagree with geoff. I believe there is sufficient evidence of an awarenis of proportionality and disregard of the israelis and is evidenced by the facts on the ground. Woodruff when a conflict is underway as has been there for more than 20 days, how much does it matter whether International Laws have been violated . Is one side or the other going to be held accountable, do you believe . I believe they will not, at the end of the day, although the violations, in my opinion, are clear, and thats because the u. N. Security council will have a member to exercise a veto should israel be brought before them and i dont believe the i. C. J. Nor the i. C. C. Will take up the case, the International Criminal court. Woodruff col. Corn, should one side or both sides be held accountable . First off, i think its clear International Law matters. Thats why were talking about this on this venue, thats why the International Community is so concerned about whats happening because theyre focused on the law and the expectations of compliance with the law. I agree with gary that its unlikely that there be an International Criminal accountability for these actions, but i dont think that means there wont be accountability. I tend to believe that if the israelis conclude, after the conflict, after theyve reviewed everything, that some of their commanders acted improperly, that they will take action against them, and theyve done that in the past. Im not sure hamas will be subjected to any responsibility. Woodruff col. Corn and gary solis, we thank you both. Thank you. Ifill finally tonight, a story of a flood, fiddles and a towns survival. Jeffrey brown traveled to colorado for our story. Brown the song is called little rain but its about a big rain and its aftermath, the flooding of a town in colorado in the foothills of the rockies last september. Were trying to address what happens and also represent, you know, our strengths and even the strength of spirit and our joy that we still have in this town but still express the gravity of what happens. Brown what happened is something no one here had ever seen. The river jumping its banks. Video shot by local residents captured the scene as the river divided lyons into a series of islands cutting off this small town of 2,000 from the world for three days, one person died, 200 houses damaged. Musician david tiller talked to the newshour just after he was evacuated. Seeing the faces of the houses blown on and realizing nothing of the house was salvageable. I dont even know how to describe it. Brown in all, 20 of Lyons Housing stock was lost and the town suffered 50 million in damages. Music has been a big part of the community. This was a flooded lake, but now is one of the nations leading and longest running bluegrass festivals. The rocky grass festival is an annual celebration of bluegrass attracting some 5,000 people and major figures from this musical world for 42 years. Festival director Craig Ferguson lives on the ground, and last september as th the Evacuation Order came, he left in a hurry in the middle of the night. When he returned, he found his land, his business, that is, and his house under four feet of water. Much of it later turned to mutt filled with de mud filled with debris that had been carried down the river. We took over 1,000 dump trucks of gravel, silt and sand out of here. Over 1,000. That took us they were going around the clock for two months. We had four backhoes and two excavators out theory for six months. Brown ferguson was determined the show would go on. Rocky grass is about the music, of course, but also about the community of performers and audience members who come year after year. And for this small town, its an important business engine. applause so getting it up and running had economic as well as psychological meaning. I think rocky grassing opening is a signal to the town. I know a lot of people in town are excited that, okay, we can start having fun again. Brown the festivitiesryornit 10 00 a. M. With a mad dash. A friendly running of the tarps set to the very nonblue grassy william tell overture. Prime real estate for the acts. Alison krause and Union Station among them. And banjo master bela fleck and his wife abigail washburn. They provide separate ensembles but are now teamed up for the first time. Like other rocky grass veterans, they were determined to return after the flood. Theres little doubt the festival was going to happen at all. It was a real important year to come back and do something. To be a part of this Incredible Community that has, against all odds, found a way to reclaim this land and turn it into the festival site it once was. Brown it all looked and anded great. But there was also this. The socalled homeless band. The pickup group of musicians and children who lost their homes in the flood and all these months later are living in temporary housing, uncertain what happens next. Barry mccrumb was playing banjo and singing. He showed us where his house once stood. The front door was here. Brown he had Flood Insurance but that covered just half his losses. They only pay for the part that touched the water which is 3. 5 feet in my house but the dry wall above they wont cover. Hes frustrated waiting for permission from the town to rebuild. Most houses were built before strict government regulations were in place about building in flood plains. To qualify for federal aid, the town must enforce the rules but that red tape has led to lengthy delays issuing permits. Its the middle of the summer and in colorado theres only so many weeks we can build because of the harsh weather that comes in october, and i hope to have a house enclosed like this by that time. It doesnt seem like its going to happen. The rivers right here. Its a lot of mixed emotions. Brown musician Danny Shaffer lived with his family in a mobile home in this field that had been a trailer park. With the festival this weekend, it almost aeastern pierce lyons is back to normal but its not at all. Theres a lot of people misplaced and dont know if they will come back. Brown the flood wiped out 30 trailers in the park. Today it was used a as lot for the music festival. Future is unclear but one thing it likely wont be is a trailer park. Shaffer wants to stay in lyons but now must pay double rent. The town is made up of people of all kinds of economic situations and thats wonderful and it stands a chance to be changed severely. Brown thats a fear we heard from everyone here including mandolin player casey groves whod organized a fund to help musicians after the flood. I think thats the biggest concern more than where the roads are going to go, whos going to get the new sidewalk, which houses stay, which go. I think the biggest concern really is that its going to lose its charm, its smalltown feel. I think a lot of the artists and Musician Community feel they might be priced out of living here. Brown a lot of people came here for that in the first place. Yes, and now the rentals are harder to find, and to buy a place is a struggle. Brown this weekend, though, the focus was on the strength and vibrancy of the community, especially through its music. Rocky grass festival lives on and , so too, sang the water girls, does lyons. And you just watch us stand our ground but you cant take our town ifill again, the major developments of the day. The u. S. And u. N. Announced israel and hamas have agreed to a 72hour ceasefire, starting tomorrow. A spokesperson at the u. N. Explained the next steps. During this period, civilians in gaza will receive urgently needed humanitarian relief and the opportunity to carry out vital functions including burying the dead, taking care of the injured and restocking food supplies. Israelian and palestinian delegations will immediately go to cairo for negotiations with the government of egypt at the invitation of egypt aimed at reaching a durable cease fire. The u. S. Will send a small delagation. Stocks on wall street plunged in their worst oneday drop since february. Nearly all of the months gains where erased. Woodruff on the newshour online right now, the fiveyear old cancer survivor who made headlines last year as san franciscos caped crusador is back and hes stronger than ever. Batkid will make his film debut in an upcoming documentary. We spoke to his mom, natalie scott, who gives us an update, read that on our rundown. All that and more is on our web site, newshour. Pbs. Org. Ifill and thats the newshour for tonight. On friday, well report on the california farmers digging deep to combat a historic drought by im gwen ifill. Woodruff and im judy woodruff. Well see you online and again here tomorrow evening with mark shields and david brooks. For all of us here at the pbs newshour, thank you and good night. Moving our economy for 160 years. Bnsf, the engine that connects us. Charles schwab, proud supporter of the pbs newshour. Carnegie corporation of new york. Supporting innovations in education, democratic engagement, and the advancement of International Peace and security. At carnegie. Org. And with the ongoing support of these institutions and. This program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. And by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. Thank you. Captioning this is bbc world news. This is bbc world news america. Funding of this presentation is made possible by the freeman foundation, newmans own foundation, giving all profits to charity and pursuing the common good for over 30 years, kohfer foundation, and union bank. At union bank, our relationship managers work hard to know your business, offering Specialized Solutions and capital to help you meet your growth objectives