Transcripts For KQED KQED Newsroom 20150321

Everyone likes having options, right . Especially when it comes to your daily commute to work. This week i checked out two new alternatives to San Franciscos muni bus system. Starting with the newest kid on the block leap. Leap launched its first bus route this week. So tell me how you found out about leap. I read an article on tech fringe that was circulated around our office. I got excited because i live in the marina and i hate the commute every morning. Yeah. Its a perfect fit for me. This is my first time. Its great so far. Its really comfortable. Spacious. Not hot like the 30s which i usually take. How long were you taking muni and what was that experience like . Probably about a year. But i avoided it as much as i could. I took uber a lot. But obviously, with the prices that are, you know always surging it became quite an expensive habit. A ride costs 5 to 6 depending on how many tickets you buy. About double muni fares. Leaps vehicles are refurbished buses. Theres wifi and even a mini bar selling gourmet coffees, juices, and snacks. Leaps cofounder and ceo kyle kirkhoff rode with me on the companys only line, the lombard route, which snakes its way from San Franciscos marina neighborhood to downtown. Kirkhoff says he tried to completely rethink the commute experience. Do you see muni as your competition . We really love muni and we really like mass transit and we think thats an important part of making a city work well, and we really view ourselves as kind of a Complementary Service to you know help with some of the overflow because you know right now commuters only have two major options to get to work. But theres also this kind of tension in the city, you know, with the google buses, the yahoo the genentech buses. Some people are really saying youre creating a twotier transit system, for the haves and the have nots. Well, google buses are private and only available to google employees. At leap were really focused on identifying the problem areas for commuters and enabling the community to give us feedback on where the mass transit infrastructure needs to be complemented. You know, and we look forward to bringing, you know, service to all areas of the city like potrero and sunset and richmond. What about San Francisco of course is a very regulatoryintense place. What are some of the regulatory hurdles youve had to deal with . Weve collaborated closely with muni to design a route that doesnt take us on restricted streets or get in the way of their operations. Were really interested in looking at the Broader Network of Transportation Options available to commuters and make sure were doing things that make the city work better overall. What about bus stops . We primarily use white loading zones throughout the city to make sure we dont get in the way of the citys operations. Youre not using muni stops . Were not using muni stops. Kirkhoff says investors have kicked in 2. 5 million to help launch leap, but theyve got a competitor just two blocks away. Charity. Both companies mimic munis 30 marina express line. How do you think its different from muni . For a driver, i mean. As a driver i think its a lot better. We dont have to deal with, you know, rude customers, things like that. People enjoy actually our service. You know. Using smaller vans, charitys chestnut bullet takes a slightly different route from leap. Laura champion has been Riding Charity for a few months. So in terms of comfort and all that, youre guaranteed a seat for one thing, right . Yeah. Its great. If a van full theres another one five minutes behind. So its not like youre waiting. Youre not on a packed bus. Yeah. You dont feel like youre a sardine packed inside. Its nice. Its a really big relief actually and a lot less stress commuting to work in the morning. Charity has three other lines, and like leap is targeting a niche market. Unlike muni with over 700,000 rides a day. Its like an industrial bakery versus a boutique cupcake shop. These private transit options clearly cant serve everyone. Theres a company thats offering a tap on the phone with an alternative to muni. I would expect it to be more expensive. So how often do you use Public Transit . Every day. I take the b. A. R. T. From the east bay, come up to San Francisco, then i take the 38l or 38 regular down to japan town. Whats that experience like . Its smooth. The transitions very smooth. I get off on b. A. R. T. , walk right out here to montgomery and ride on there and im back in japantown in about ten minutes. I like it. I like it. Whats your take on muni . I mean, its better than not having its better than not having any sort of way to get around the city, but sometimes, you know, it can be a little frustrating with, you know, people yelling and screaming and getting harassed on the bus. Who knows . Maybe a little competition will force muni to up its game. And joining me now to discuss the benefits and drawbacks of private Transit Services are San Francisco Supervisor Scott Wiener clarissa, a planner with transform, a transportation Advocacy Organization and Charity Founder and ceo ali mahobzade. Welcome stou all. Ali, your company is less than a year old it provides 4,000 rides a week. Muni provides more than 7,000 rides a day. What niche is charity filling . Were focusing on the commute. So in San Francisco like many cities if not the world the peak hours monday through friday mornings 7 00 to 10 00, evenings 4 00 to 7 00, 4 00 to 8 00 are really people trying to do the right thing by doing transit first and most transit systems arent able to take the capacity of all the computers trying to get either to work or to home at the time. So im not sure if its a niche but its a large swath of the segment that were addressing. Right now youre in San Francisco. Do you have plans to extend beyond San Francisco . We do. We think theres a lot of opportunity in San Francisco and afterwards we want to look at the greater bay area and then eventually move on to a second market. And supervisor wiener, you are a longtime muni rider. Youve done it for 18 years. Munis ontime performance is 58 . Its supposed to be 85 . It has never met that goal. And people complain about muni all the time. Do you think that the growth if these private transit systems are a reflection of munis failure . The fact that were seeing private alternatives to Public Transportation shows that we have not kept up as a region in investing in our transit systems. Our city has grown by 100,000 people in the last decade. The bay areas going to grow by 2 Million People in the next 25 years. And bart and muni and ac transit and caltrain are all bursting at the seams. You cant get onto vehicles at times. And thats because we have not invested at the level that we need to to expand the capacity and reliability of the systems. And so as a result we are seeing lost alternatives. And that includes some of these private services. But just to be clear, even if we did everything we need to do with Public Transportation if we really want to get people out of their cars, and we cant have another million cars in the bay area we have to give people alternatives. To get people out of their cars even with good transit you have to have supplementary services. Car sharing ride sharing, and so forth. So you support these new services coming along. I support giving residents as many good noncar alternatives as possible, and that includes great Public Transportation and cabs, and it includes private services as well. Clarissa, what impact do you think these private services will have on the Public Transit system . So at transform we really believe that you cant get ahead in life if you cant get around. And that means dealing with the reality that we have currently a bifurcated system where there are people that can afford to drive everywhere and plug up our highways, which look more like parking lots. If youve been on the 101 recently. And then there are those that have to take transit, even if its unreliable or its not coming when you want it to come. Or bike or walk to get to your destination. So i think the reality is that people want options and these new options signal the need for provision of options that, you know, people currently cant rely on the existing Transportation Network. But you use an interesting phrase. Bifurcated system. Does this not also set up a different kind of bifurcated system in the sense that those who can afford to pay, for example, a 6 ride on leap will be able to use these plush posh services and you create a further stratification between those who can afford that and those who can afford a 2 muni ride . Yes. And so i think that what the private sector has been able to do well is find the gaps in the existing Transportation Network and actually capitalize on that. And you can decide whether or not thats a good thing. It is getting people out of their cars per se if that is an option that is better than their own personal automobile, i think that where we need to be careful is making sure that type of technology and that advanced solution is accessible to lowincome people. So are are there ways these companies can start to really think about the needs of lowerincome people that currently are underserved by transit . You know, there are a lot of people that own cars in places where transits just not serving them well. Well, we have the ceo of charity right here the ceo of one of those companies. Have you begun to think about that . We have. How will you serve underserved communities . Sure. Were really excited because with Charity Customers are paying closer to 3 a ride rather than a 15 or 20 ride using uber during surge pricing or lyft during primetime pricing. So getting down to 3 is very close to muni in fact. On top of that our customers can pay with charity passes with commuter benefits provided by their employers. So using those commuter benefits like wage works or commuter check, the same ones they would use on muni, caltrain or b. A. R. T. , our customers are paying for charity passes with pretax dollars. In other words thats saving them anywhere from 30 to 50 off that 3 1 2dollar ride, for example. So on a commuter benefit basis chariot customers are playing closer to 2 a ride. But you have limited rides. You dont have rides going into bayview Hunters Point or the tenderloin. People who cant afford to do something beyond muni many of them. Sure. Were very excited. We started with four vans, me driving one of them back in april. And now were over 30 vans and four routes in just 11 months. So were really excited to weve just expanded to the haightashbury. And we hopefully look forward to serving places like the inner richmond, the inner sunset, and places south as well. You didnt mention the tenderloin or the bayview. Well, think about where the tenderloin is. The tenderloin is walking distance to union square. Financial district and even soma. So the tenderloin is really not a transit hub, if you will, or places that people need to transit to for most of the major work centers of course. Its also walking distance to b. A. R. T. Stations where people can go to the east or south bay. And bayview Hunters Point were actually speaking with a few commuter activists down there and seeing how we can improve their transit experience as well. Supervisor wiener, do you think there is some sort of obligation or social responsibility component here for these companies to look at a way to provide services in those lowerincome neighborhoods . Actually, its not the responsibility of private companies to provide Good Transportation in lowincome neighborhoods. Its the responsibility of our Public Transportation systems to provide that service. And i think the minute we start saying we want private companies to fulfill our obligation in terms of equity for lowincome and workingclass neighborhoods, that would be a monumental failure. We need to make sure that muni and b. A. R. T. And all of our systems are providing Superb Services everywhere they go. It is not acceptable that to get from the bayview to downtown say, on the t that it takes as long as it takes. Thats not acceptable. Its not acceptable how long it takes to get from the outer sunset downtown. And that is an obligation on us as government to make sure were delivering those services. I think many people would agree with what youre saying about what is the role of government and the responsibility of government. But as we saw in scott shafers piece earlier and as you all know theres been a lot of resentment over, say the google buses. And these services that youre providing for example seem like another symbol of that. The divide between the haves and the have nots. That for 6 or 3 riding on these things you can isolate yourself from the rest of San Francisco from the homeless, from the elderly from the disabled, people who dont necessarily have access to these services. The best part of my day is 7 00 in the morning when i jump on the chariot service itself, and i meet waitresses like jennifer, who commute from the north end of town to her job at the Ferry Building and she tells me privately that she doesnt make that much money but the extra dollar is really worth spending because she can reliably and comfortably get to work stressfree on a very affordable budget. All the way, yeso to ceos and founders of companies that take chariot. One of our customers, dylan told me he sold his car after two weeks of riding chariot because we did prove to be reliable and he didnt need the expense anymore of a fixed car payment insurance, parking, vandalism and parking ticket. Clarissa, so the benefits have been laid out. Do you have concerns, though, about that stratification, about how if you have more and more people using these services and being more isolated from the rest of San Francisco for example, that perhaps they will feel like they have less of a stake in protecting the citys Public Transit system here in San Francisco or elsewhere, wherever these Ride Sharing Services spread . So i did mention earlier that i think that there are people that can afford to even not take Public Transit. So it isnt that in Current Society were without these private companies that we wouldnt have that kind of isolation, social isolation from people that have lower incomes of you. But i think where you know its important to realize that there are people that could probably take that. I mean, chariots an example of one where its open to the public. The google buses, for example are not necessarily open to the public. So there is that opportunity to see if it can work for the public. But the reality is that in the bay area costs are skyrocketing. People are moving from San Francisco into the east bay and displacing the families that have long been there to even further parts of the region. And our challenges, are we going to have them drive back in because thats their only option. I think with the tech sector involved in trying to find Mobility Solutions there might be something there. But unless it really understands like ive heard data that says one tech sector worker relies on three lowwage Service Workers. Where are those lowwage Service Workers going to live . Will they be able to afford living in the bay area . More and more people are spending more than half of their incomes on both housing and transportation. And thats the reality of what it means to live in such a desirable location. Absolutely. And clarissa i just want to jump in. You mentioned the east bay, and its exciting that the board of directors at b. A. R. T. Actually reached out to chariot. And were discussing actually first mile and last Mile Solutions to b. A. R. T. Stations. Whats happening what does that mean . Whats happening is that people are actually opting to drive in to San Francisco because they cant even find parking at b. A. R. T. Stations. So they drive to the b. A. R. T. Station a mile away from their home they see the parking lot piled up and nowhere to park and ride so, they end up getting on 80 and driving into the city. Thats a loselose for everyone the commuter and the community and all the other commuters as well. With chariot were exploring solutions where we can solve that first mile solution get that commuter to keep his car in the garage until saturday morning and take chariot to the b. A. R. T. Station and run loops around big b. A. R. T. Or caltrain centers. And on the other end of the city of the commute in San Francisco doing a last mile solution for people as well. Again, the goal is keeping people having people keep their cars in their garage. Thats interesting. I want were talking about city to city transportation now. So that brings up the question of regulation. And supervisor wiener, who this is a twotiered question. Who is responsible for these services in San Francisco in terms of regulation . The California Public Utilities Commission told us it only has oversight for companies that operate from city to city. So chariot and leap dont do that yet. And the San Francisco Municipal Transportation Agency says it does not monitor ridesharing agencies. So it seems like its this gray area where no ones in charge. As i understand it ride sharing in general is governed by state law. So that would be the cpuc. The mta the city really has no jurisdiction over them. Other than but the cpuc says if the organization exists only in one city and doesnt go from city to city its not responsible. Well someone has to be responsible. But what were really seeing is that state law is really really far behind with a hot of theselot of these services. So for example, uber and lyft as well and one other Company Started these carpooling services where you can call and if they have someone in the area whos already going in a certain direction theyll pick you up too. Its super cheap. It is incredibly affordable to do that. Much more affordable than even a cab. And the cpuc rule that it was illegal under state law. So youre trying to take a service and make it more affordable for people. And the state is saying the law is out of date. So we need the state legislature to comprehensively address this, not by catering to some incumbents like some in the cab industry that want to destroy these services, but to actually conform the law to the modern reality that were facing and make sure that this kind of innovation can thrive. And in fact even the laws that we do have in place now for Services Like uber and lyft, the cpuc in that chase was playing catchup catchup. It wasnt until we had serious questions about insurance, for example, for uber that the cpuc started coming in declared a whole new category for these companies called Transportation Network companies. So it seems like on a regulatory level were playing catchup. Absolutely. And in fairness to our government agencies, this all happened fast. It came on the scene. And so government is playing catchup. We have to make sure that these services that there is a degree of oversight around insurance, around making sure the drivers are well trained, making sure that there are Consumer Protections in place. Thats very, very important. And that is happening and i think it will happen. Ali, who is responsible for conducting background checks at chariot . Do you conduct them . And do your drivers have insurance . Yes, we do. So we do thorough background checks. We do extensive driver training. We have and so the second part of your question . Im sorry. Do your drivers have insurance . So we have actually commercialgrade insurance with chariot. So all of our passengers have, as well as the vehicle, have twice the state limit, or twice the state minimum, excuse me, of vehicle insurance. And our drivers are actually insured by workers comp. Another interesting thing that people dont know about charity is that our drivers are actually w2 employees. Chariot is paying payroll taxes toward the city and the state and employing now we have about 60 fulltime and parttime drivers. Were not doing were not playing this 1099 charade of hide the pea, but were theyre not your contractors. Theyre actual employees. Theyre actual employees and our retention rate is super high because they really enjoy what theyre doing and they know theyre contributing to a larger cause of better transit in the city. Clarissa, i want to ask you this. Transportation is a regionwide issue. You all talked about that. To what extent do you think private Companies Like chariot, like leap provide a solution, and what more would you like to see from them . So i think that their existence is kind of telling that they are providing some form of a solution. Right . There are people that choose to take that rather than our traditional Public Transit system or driving or uber for example, or a taxi for example, to work. I think that where were increasingly seeing a lot of Complementary Service thats something i would really encourage chariot and leap and lyft and all the different new providers of Transportation Service to work with the government. I heard a stat that said about 22 of lyft rides are going to caltrain and there are hot spots around b. A. R. T. Stations. That tells me theres some kind of symbiotic relationship that should be mined. If we are regionally trying to get people to drive less. And the reality is that people often only can drive. In San Francisco you might have i multiplicity of options but along the peninsula theres less kind of Transportation Service. So i think were dealing with the realities of our built environment and what options you do have out there. I think people do need options and if you can make them more affordable and speak to their needs a little bit more. And just real quickly this seems like its just beginning. Ten years from now what do you think transit will look like in the bay area . I think that clarissas point is a really really important one. When you look at the reality of our systems, b. A. R. T. Hit 400,000 daily riders a decade before they projected. Cal terrains gone from 35,000 a day to 61,000 a day in just a few years. Muni is through the roof. People cant get on these vehicles. So its not like people are saying oh i dont feel like taking muni anymore. A lot of times in the 30 exes you cant even get on the bus. Ten years from now i know what it has to look like. We need dramatically more service. We need b. A. R. T. Vehicles. We need more muni vehicles. We need to significantly expand capacity. And all of that is going to take money. Thank you for for being here. Supervisor scott wiener, Ali Vahabzadeh with chariot and clarissa cabansagan. Thank you all. And now to scott shafer with an update on two stories weve been covering. On last weeks show i asked the head of the state water board, felicia marcus, why the state hasnt employed mandatory rationing. Our goals to been to leverage at the local level, not to stand in the shoes of thousands of local water agencies to make decisions. What weve been trying to do is to make clear that there are certain things that arent okay and that certain things go to the level of like what, for example . Like watering your lawn so much that it runs off into the streets. Yesterday kqeds politics and government editor john meyers asked jerry brown the same question. So im going to talk to some of the members of the water board and ask them that very question. But i do think they know what theyre doing and theyre trying to dot best they can. And were going to do more. Dont worry. If this drought continues well crank it down, and it will get extremely challenging for people in california and in some places far more challenging than other places. The governor made his remarks at a bipartisan press conference with leaders of the state legislature and unveiled a plan to help communities hit hard by the drought and to make it easier for the state to buy water. And finally, last month we interviewed oakland mayor libby schaaf, who was part of our panel with the mayors of San Francisco and san jose. In that interview schaaf used a phrase that has generated some unusual interest. You know i love talking about the idea that oakland can grow without selling its soul, that we have a secret sauce in oakland, its our diversity our artists our gritty industrial flavor. Even our birthplace for social movements. Recently someone actually filed a public records request with the city of oakland asking for all documents relating to the ingredients and manufacture of oaklands secret sauce. The city has not yet responded to that request. Now we believe the ingredients include chipotle and garlic but we havent confirmed that yet. That is our show for tonight. For all of kqeds News Coverage please go to kqednews. Org. Im scott shafer. Thanks for joining us. A kqed television production. Its sort of like old fishermans wharf. It reminds me of old San Francisco. And youd be a little bit like jean valjean, with the teeth, whatever. And worth the calories, the cholesterol, and the heart attack you might have. Its like an adventure, you know . You gotta put on your miners helmet. It reminds me of oatmeal with a touch of wet dog. I did. Inhaled it. P