Transcripts For KQED Charlie Rose 20170712

Welcome to the program. Im jeff glor of cbs news filling in for charlie rose. We begin tonight with the continuing coverage of the investigation into possible collusion between the Trump Campaign and russia. We talk to do Shannon Pettypiece of Bloomberg News and ed okeefe of the Washington Post. We have not heard much from the president today. His twitter feed has kind of been eeriely quiet. He was a bit quiet yesterday as well. And Sarah Huckabee saunders spokesperson to the Deputy Press Secretary put out a statement from the president , a very short brief statement calling his, complimenting his son and saying i admire his transparency. I typically would expect the president is not one who is shy, obviously to lean into controversy when hes attacked, he fights back. Of all people to be drug over the coals, his own son, his family is very important to him. We continue with charlies conversation with the cast of the new production of George Orwells 1984. It is with reed birney, Tom Sturridge and olivia wilde. This is a play that speaks to our times and thats why its really important we all experience it together. We conclude with the actor and comedian Kumail Nanjiani talked to charlie about the new film cowritten by his wife, the big sick. Why arent you talking about religion and i was like i dont really know what to say bit. Its just like say that, say its complicated and you dont know how you feel about it. So thats what we put in the movie. The russia investigation, 1984 and Kumail Nanjiani when we continue. Rose funding for charlie rose has been provided by the following and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and Information Services worldwide. Captioning sponsored by Rose Communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. Good evening. Charlie is traveling. Im jeff glor. We continue tonight with politics. Earlier today donald trump, jr. Released an email exchange that suggests he went into a june 26 meeting with a kremlin connected lawyer knowing it was part of a russian government effort to aid his fathers campaign. The president s eldest son agreed to meet with the attorney. Natalia veselnitskaya after being told she had compromising information on Hillary Clinton. Trump, jr. Said nothing came of the meeting and released the emails to be totally transparent. This is a new twist in a month long investigation between a possible collusion between the Trump Campaign and russia. Senator of oregon says these emails there is no longer a question of this foreign par to subvert americans democracy. Joining me now from washington Shannon Pettypiece a correspondent for Bloomberg News and ed okeefe, a reporter for the Washington Post and a contributor to cbs news. Welcome to both of you. Ed, let me start with you. Donald trump, jr. Said he released these emails so he could be totally transparent but its only because the emails were about to be released by the newspaper. Thats right. The New York Times gotten these and told him they had them and so rushed them out. While we can appreciate his transparency putting it out there so we can all look at this what it begins to demonstrate now is the cleaner es links yet between the officials in the russian government trying to talk to the Rule Campaign about potentially damaging information about Hillary Clinton. In the words of mark warner earlier today all of these denials over the past year or so from trump officials, from the president himself from his sons that there was no attempt to talk russia about any of this are now cast aside by the proof that the president s son tweeted out today and shared with the world. Even if nothing came from this or he put it out for everyone to see it seems like he was attempting to coordinate with the russian government or russian officials who are trying to discredit Hillary Clinton. Remember collusion itself is not the legal issue here. Thats a political term. Its the potential for coordination between a foreign power and folks in this country regarding our president ial election that ultimately could become the issue. Some legal experts spoke with the post and other outlets suggesting this is the kind of evidence that might suggest coordination between the trouble campaign and the russian government. Shannon, if these emails are real and the Administration Says they are, there does seem to be quite a bit of interest on donald trump, jr. s part in trying to find out whatever it was they were trying to provide. First it was a phone call and then he said okay lets meet. And that if they have damaging information on Hillary Clinton as the emails implayed, he wrote i love it. So not only actively soliciting it but eager to get information from the russian officials who as these emails lay out this was not just coming from a woman who happened to be a lawyer in russia, the emails actually refer to her as a russian government attorney. The emails lay out that this was on behalf of the russian government efforts to assist president trump. So it knocks the legs out from under this stool where theyve been prawning up an argument that says first of all, we never met with anyone from the russian government or affiliated with the government or acting on behalf of the russian government. And also this cry of a witch hunt that all of this talk about russia trying to assist the president s campaign was a with hunt. Theres nothing there, something made up by the fakes news media. This shows that they actually knew as spelled out in this email that the russian government was trying to help the trouble campaign. The president still says that he personally had nothing to do with any of this. Thats right. And today praised his sons transparency and said otherwise i refer you to my son and to his counsel, his criminal defense lawyer hes hired. The son and others have said, he was not aware of this meeting or not involved in it even though it took place just one floor below his trump tower office. The fact that Paul Manafort, his Campaign Manager and Jared Kushner the soninlaw was involved, he may not have been directly involved but i think there will be a lot of questions whether any of those three ever mentioned to him that they were meeting with this woman or has met with her. And thats the extent of it then fine. But if theres evidence otherwise that he is encouraging it or had been contacted previously, certain then were headed into real serious and new territory. Shannon, what more are we learning about Natalia Veselnitskaya and what shes doing now. Well theres a lot of questions as far as what information she had and what she was actually doing there. I still dont think we have the answer to that and we really only gotten a snapshot i think into whats a Bigger Picture that well get more in an shots into. We dont necessarily know what took place in this meeting, what she said in the meeting. We have a statement from donald trump, jr. About his characterization of the meeting. His statements, though, have been you could say untruthful at worst or half truths at best over the past few days. Being involved from one about an Adoption Program to one on Hillary Clinton and it was about the russian government bringing the Opposition Research on Hillary Clinton. So theres a credibility question around donald trump, jr. s characterization of this meeting. This attorney gave an interview where she said she didnt talk about the 2016 campaign at all. I think theres also credibility questions around her because she has these links and was even described in the email as a russian government attorney. And then the other two people that we know of were in the meeting, Paul Manafort and Jared Kushner have not been saying anything about this. What they will be asked about this by congressional investigators and those meetings, you know, expected that they will be made public so they will have their chance to give their side of this meeting as well then. And then its widely expected too that there will be questions about this by special counsel bob mueller. So another chance to find out more about what went on in this meeting. So ed how would that work then because trump, jr. Says hes willing to fully cooperate. Does that mean talking about mueller, does that mean testifying before the Senate Intelligence committee, what does that mean. It could mean both of those things. Obviously thats why he had to hire a lawyer to help figure this out. You would think if it becomes a central part of the special Council Investigation that he would meet with mueller and his team. And yes, given that we know the Senate Intelligence Committee Investigation especially is looking into russias attempts to meddle with and influence the election, this seems to fall right in the middle of that. You saw members of the committee today suggest youve all been exposed to something we may or may not have been aware of and well obviously want to look into it more. Its important to point out just as quickly as these stories surface, don, jr. Said im happy to talk to congressional investigators about it to help clear the air. So undoubtedly that will has not. Whether it happens in public for all of us to watch or whether it happens behind closed doors, whether it happens here in washington or up in new york, all of that is left to the high priced attorneys that he has now hired and that is what theyre there for is to sort all this out. Shannon, so Jared Kushner has reclarified what meetings hes taken or not taken or participated in . Well, we dont know. Again, we asked, ive asked two of his lawyers, his spokesperson for any sort of statement today. I have gotten nothing from them. One of my colleagues tried to reach out to him directly to get again his side of the story, whether he was involved in this. I think he is the one who has the most at stake here because he is the one in the administration who has a security clearance. He did, prior to this story coming out, his spokesperson did say that initially this meeting was left off of his security clearance application but he has recommitted that application with additional information. The question though is also out there, and members on the hill are asking this, should he still cause they know he met with a Foreign Government, he was meeting with an agent of a Foreign Government to try and interfere in an election process. So that could raise questions there as far as whether hes someone that should receive a security clearance or not. Ed, so what is, at this point, Natalia Veselnitskaya being referred to as . Is she considered an agent of a Foreign Government . I dont think thats been clarified at this point. Ly certainly denied it in this interview. She was working on their behalf or sent on behalf of the russian government so that much is not known or necessarily clarified yet. We know shes been speaking out against this program thats been put in place that basically sanctions russians who violate human rights which is something that the putin regime has not been supportive of and has been fighting and used revoking of adoptions as a way to punish the United States for passing it. But otherwise i think everyones role in this is really still quite unknown. The fact that the credible lynn and this attorney would be denying what many believe may have happened, look, theyve been denying certain things for the better part of a year now and it just was proven. One has to take what a lot of these russian Officials Say with great subsequentism if only because through the trickle of information thats being report out, a lot of it is being discovered. So rob gold stone in these emails is characterizing her as the representative of the russian government. Right. And thats another interesting character that we still dont know the full story on, Rob Goldstone who is a publicist, who knew donald trump and donald trump, jr. Through the miss america, im sorry the Miss Universe pageant in 2013 held in moscow. His client was a singer whose father was a very influential businessman who also had connection with the russian government. So thats how we again get through this weird twisted cast of characters who leads us then to this russian attorney who want to meet with the promise of incriminating information on Hillary Clinton. So we have public sists, pop music and politicians. A lot of this is seen, i dont know, how much of this can be traced back to that pageant in 2013. It seems a lot is headed in that direction. Do you remember earlier this year when it was proven to be false document that james comey had to take to the president elect and say somebodys been circulating this and has some pretty salatiouc arguments against you. A lot of this may have to do with the universe pageant being held in russia and who he met or who he the Family Business was working with at the time and how ll of it now really seems to be coming into clear focus. And thats really why, people at home may be subsequent cull is this really a big deal. So what. The guys son was taking meetings with people. Any son who is working for his dad in this kind of capacity probably would but look this starts to really now fill in some details about this and starts to refute a lot of things that have been denied by trump or trump associates. And makes it much clearer now thain calling his, complimenting his son and saying i admire his transparency. I typically would expect the president is not one who is shy obviously to lean into controversy when hes attacked, he fights back. Of all people to be being drug over the coals his own son, family is very important to him. And i think that this is, ive been trying to talk to people who have been close to him to find out if theyve had a conversation with him about it. I havent talked to anybody yet who has spoken to him directly about how his feelings are in this and knowing how important for family and feeling attacked and being strongly advised not to say anything on twitter about it. This is a very difficult time hes going through right now. And hes had two days with no Public Events scheduled either. So we really havent even seen him. Ed talk to me if you would a little bit about donald trump, jr. s involvement in the campaign of 2016. Sure. He didnt hold a formal role unlike kushner who became a much more active advisor especially in the later stages of the campaign unlike landowski and manafort. He was different, he was employed to meet constituencies and help humanize his fathers just as e vanb and totalitarian regime. 1984 has been adapted into a play by robert eich and mcmillon running on broadway in the hudson theatre. The play was called intense in a way never seen on broadway, its gut churning. Joining me the stars of the play, tunnel sturridge, olivia wilde and reed birney. Is this play relevant to the times we live in in 2017. And how. I remember when i read it in 8th grade it was Science Fiction and now it feels like documentary. The play was done four years ago in london in response to the Edward Snowden situation. That was the inspiration for adapting it. Right after the election this year our producer scott ruby thought this was the perfect time to remind everybody about but the decision to do that was before trump was elected. To adopt it. It was adopted originally in nottingham five years ago. Whats so terrifying for me about his presence is that all of the language or at least 5 of it is taken from orwells book published in 1949. None was change the or scripted in any way to the trump election. We divided it purely into that purpose. Rose does it have more relevance because it was written if it was a play about a dystopian universe we would accuse them of jumping on a band wagon. It was George Orwells words and he saw all of this in 19 49 is what is so terrifying. Rose youve been speaking about coming to theatre. This is something youve want to do. Yes. Portunity to addition. Eeme. M and i immediately pulled out of the movie i was supposed to shoot. Even though i didnt have the part. My agents were horrified. You should try to get the part before you pull out. I said no. Im going to do this. I know im going to do this. It just felt no. I just knew. I knew of the directors and i was excited the idea of working with them and the material is something that i was familiar enough with that i understood the role already. And i loved their adaptation and i said i just know what to do here. Rose at the dinner table when you were growing up. I felt so passionate about it from the beginning and it has felt like a way to manifest my daily rage in a convenience kind of way. Rose manifest your daily rage. Yes, its cathartic. Rose is this what theatre should be at best . Yes. Rose relevant, explanatory. Also involving of the audience state of the art form in which the artist and the audience are together in a room. And this is a play that speaks to our times and therefore its really important that we will experience it together. And its caused a lot of very intense reactions. Rose but is it different within the audience at the same time. Yes, completely. What scares me about this is sometimes the need for conconveniences. I dont need to clap at the same time, i dont need to laugh at the same time this is a dang just idea. This is a democratic response of people feeling differently about similar ideas. Some are afraid, some are energized, some walk out, some laugh. Its incredibly democratic reaction from all kinds of backgrounds. Rose maybe before i get ahead of my myself, we talked t authoritarianism but talk about the characters. The characters are, its set in 198 4, written in 1949. It was out of party workers. A grunt for lack of a better word. And he comes, wakes up seemingly. Suddenly is aware in a way he never had been before about where he is and whats going on. Did julia have anything to do with that . Well, he meets julia who works in the Fiction Department and she helps with his awakening and they become radicalized, self radicalized. Rose they first fall in love. They do but six is outlawed. By falling in love theyve already broken the law. Then i play obrien who could be on their side or could not be on their side and they trust me and its part of the great mystery of 1984. Is julia and spy or not a spy is bryan a spay or not a spy. Its seasoned to the great paranoia were all experiencing now. Rose was there any trepidation to do this at all if the as is no about all the controversy of julius cesar. Whats especially nice its not specifically about trump its just a cautionary tail about what can happen. Its not quite in your face as perhaps julius cesar might have been. Droppic. Yes. Well i will say our play is wildly theatrical. One of the things about the play despite its politics or proffer case is like nothing youve ever seen in play before. Rose how did you settle on the look of your character. It was an idea people under a fascist regime thats what we tried to find, unsettling audience not quite know where they are. Rose why does julia think she can trust him. She sees in his eyes that he is different and she understands that theres something kind of extraordinary about him and brave about him. Now whether or not she takes advantage of that and is a spy and ends up dragging him to his death is up for debate but hes certainly unlike anyone else. Once they meet and once they do sleep together for the first time and interact for the first time she knows shes fallen in love with him and theres something deeply moving about him and his dedication to the cause. He radicalizes her further than she ever was. Deeply risky, yes. Rose then theres the torture. What can i tell you. There is torture. Theres torture in the book. Theres torture in the play. I think theme torture performed live on stage is different than reading about it. Rose how is it different . I think the audience, its inescapable and as we talked about, you cannot make torture palatable, the idea of showing the torture is to wake the audience up to what goes on. And we torture and everybody tortures and i think its just an idea to most of us. To actually see it performed. And its a play. We do it eight times a week so everybodys okay but the suggestion of it is deeply and rightly so. Rose how does reed justify it. Its an awesome part. Thats all i needed to know. Im very proud to be a part of it for its timing and for the theatricality of it. We can use our geniuses and its thrilling to be in their company. And its a very good story to tell right now. Rose because . Well i think because it could happen. Rose you think were in society or a government thats sliding toward authoritarianism. I think when we have people on the news talk about alternative facts and kelly an connelly, orwell writes words matter facts matter. So when comey says words matter, james comey, its very close. We are there. Rose when you lose truth you lose until everything. The whole point of taking words away and diminishing language is so that people have constructive conversations that can create idealistic revolutions. That is a deep deep danger. At the moment you dont know what is real, how can i tell you what to think. I think you dont even know where you are if you dont have truth. These a pervasive paranoid that society takes on that allows for the loss of all of our values. I mean what surveillance has done to us and what were willing to sacrifice. Sciert is security is a big part of it too, a phobia, distrust of fellow man is true about the play but every night is very upsetting. Rose privacy. Privacy. The idea of theyre watching us rose theyre watching all the time. Yes, and were watching each other. The amazing thing orwell was writing about the telescreen which was a complete the Science Fiction of the time as reed said, now we carry a telescreen around at all times. Rose where we are. Recording us at all times, of course. And thats something i imagine what orwell would say if he could see us now. I think he would be surprised about how right he was. Rose is it all that you hoped it would be . And more. I am in awe of theatre actors and the incredible strength and perseverance and the endurance thats necessary to carry on a show. The experience of gathering and rehearsing this play was so powerful because we were able to connect about what this really was about, the point of doing it, the reason it has to be told now. And every night it feels like were gathering to work through those same issues. Its extraordinary to stand in front of people and see them connecting to this story and to meet them afterwards and see so many young people seeing theatre for the first time. Rose what do they say to you, if they were able to see you after the performance. They say they are chicken shaken by it. They are disturbed by it. They feel thrilled by it but shaken. I think its a kind of period conversational piece. Hes galvanized by love by a brilliant woman. And despite the people who were brutalizing his friends and family. Rose doesnt it. Mixed media el element oe show. Three of the scenes take place in a set behind the stage and they are simulcast live on a huge screen above the stage. I think that is sort of new for broadway and people are finding that. We are greatful for having had an Emotional Experience in the they are. I think lots of times broadway as fun it is they kind of sit back and washes over them and its kind of fun and then you go out to dinner. To actually feel something in the theatre in a deep profound way is very unusual. And people are so happy too. Rose you guys were injured in this, werent you . Yes. We explored lots of different ways of expressing this love. When you dont know what intimacy is, when you dont know what tenderness is, you have to approach things differently. The first time when the two come together i think is an unusual experience. Its violent. And physical. As we talked about torture, it was really important to us for the audience to believe early on that we were really going through things. We really respected each other. She hits me in the face as hard as she can t we went after each other. People arent used to seeing that. You get to torture in the even where actually were not in any way, we use the oddive imagination. We dont show them everything. We suggest it early on were going to go through a real thing. At the end when they are presented would i things they dont see they potentially see its really happening. Thats what was really important to us. Rose you said to me or you said to someone you never consider yourself a real actor until youve done theatre. Yes. Rose do you feel like a real actor now. I feel ive earned my keep. Theres something claiming the title of an actor you feel you need to earn and i think this experience lets me say okay, im comfortable. Somebody who thinks she hasnt done a lot of plays, she is a natural. Rose let me quote you. It came to me after the election. I needed a way of manifesting my dale e outrage. I wanted to talk beyond my own choir. The great thing about broadway its seen by so many different groups of people types of people. The great point of this play is we have to get beyond group think and start thinking for ourselves. Absolutely. We have been seen by all different types of audiences. Certainly weve been reviewed by every type of publication and we got a great review in breitbart which is kind of weird for me. How strange that a play that im feeling from a specific perspective is being perceived in a very different way through a different prism. I think thats really unusual. I found that to be the most fascinating thing. I knew the book was cooperated in a text on both sides of the aisle but its fascinating a piece of material thats well written and well produced is seen a totally different ways. Rose are they actual people. Thats one of the great debates upon the play. I have my own feelings. I think its important that the audience come not knowing what we believe. Rose youd rather not know what you think. Yes. Because towards the end of the play, we very much invite the audience into the production. We put them on the spot. And i think its important that for us all to be the same, for us actors to not be pushing anything on them. Kind of the political relevance of this play comes because the audience bring it into the room with them. We dont carry it. We dont present it. Theres no trump in our play. The audience bring it in. Rose they bring the trumpism. Yes. Thats why its their play. Thats whats amazing about theatre, you can take ownership of it as an audience. When they hear obriens line, the individual was dead. I hope it makes them question whether they take advantage of their individuality whether they believe the individual is dead whether they want to allow that to happen. They wont look up from their screen to see whats actually happening and its our own failings we recognize as being a part of that. By being less literal weve actually broadened the ability of the material to actually hit home. Rose youre looking for your values that speak to you at the same time. Youre wading into water not knowing where it will end. Right. Well let the audience have their experience. Most people who read the book hasnt read the appendix which orwell was adamant about including. And the awe appendix is written from the future looking back in this text and maybe the parties had fallen or maybe not. And in our show, that allows for using pieces of the text people havent ever read most people have ever read. Orwell uses the declaration of independence which is very hard to translate into news speak which i think is something thats surprising. People thought we added that to the film. Rose it was the at the same time one thing we havent mentioned is the genius of the cocreators. Rose tell me why theyre geniuses. Because they are great theatre makers. Theres a kind of notion, for me any of like a family sitting around the table and talking. Its sort of, you know, you get three hours, thats the experience. They used every school, every ounce of originality you can get into a stage production and used it with mixed media. We have like incredible sound design. The play is 101 minutes long and its fast and terrifying and theatrical using all the great powers and magic about art forms. And very new stuff too. A lot of stuff you dont see in broadway. Sometimes you see it in musical things popping up but never in plays. Rob is only 30 and rose Kumail Nanjiani is a stand up comedian, actor and written. The new film the big sick that he wrote with his wife is a semi ought biographer of the telling of the beginning of their relationship when emily is placed in a medically induced comma they were forced to divulge his relationship to their parents. He wants to arrange the marriage with a pakistani woman. The film is a winning heart serial and story of culture clash. With that here is the trail. This is fun. Wait. We havent had time im not that time of girl. I only have sex once on the first date. Whats your name. After dating this girl, shes like a white girl. Okay, we hate terrorists. I one who that could be. Im guessing its a young single pakistani woman. It is out there. Are you judging pakistani models. You know how we have arranged marriage in our culture. In which we end up together. We put her under a medically induced coma. You should call her family. Thank you. I think im just going to wait anyway. You guys broke up. Im not sure why youre here. Wait a second. Is that lady still looking at me . So 9 11 i only had a conversation with people. You never talked to people about 9 11. You cant rhyme it. Youre trying to find a word that nobody could rhyme, okay. Stonehenge. I think its screwed up with your daughter. Yeah. Let me give you some advice kumail. Love isnt easy. Thats why they call it love. I dont really get that. I thought i could just something small could come out. Rose the big sick im pleased to have Kumail Nanjiani at this table for the first time. Let me do a little biography. You came to iowa, your parents did. No, i came alone to iowa. Yes, from pakistani. I came for college and stayed. I did the four years of college and then moved to chicago, yes. Rose wanting all the time to be an entertainer. No, it wasnt until my last year of college that i started feeling this, you know, i was studying Computer Science and i was starting philosophy. One i wasnt good at and one i couldnt make any money at. So i was like, i dont know what. Rose sounds like a problem. It is, you know. Good philosophy. I know i didnt want to be a professor or anything. And Computer Science, you know i felt like i missed some class like a year or two and i never caught up. I just didnt make sense. Rose i heard its great for romance. It is. Rose you have a theory of life. My last year its like i dont know what i want to do. I sort of really fell in love withstand up comedy at that point. So i was like all right ill take this. See if this takes me anywhere. Rose it certainly took you somewhere. Were you good from the beginning. Doing stand up . Rose yes. I was good the first time. Rose you really hit well the first time. The first time i did it at college in a coffee shop on campus with all my friends there. It was like 200 people. Rose thats a hardy audience. They were so supportive, they were so excited. It was truly one of the best sets ive had to this day. I remember walking up stage and being like i could do letter. It took me 12 years to do letterman. But the first time it was really g i dont know how people could continue on if your first time isnt good. The first time was good. The second time was good. Not as good but good. I didnt have my first really bad time. I was about three or four months into it in chicago when i had my first like bad sound stage. Rose larry david told me. He had long he wasnt good the first time second Time Thursday time fourth time and finally started doing else. Yes. He was very good at it. If i hadnt done well that first time i dont think i would have done it a second time. Rose heres the interesting thing. A lot of comedians at this table have loved comedy and are good at it but what i want to do is make movies. Thats right. Because for me its true because i grew up watching movies more than stand up. I didnt really watch stand up until i was about 20 years old. Rose exhibit a for me is jordan peele. I love movies. I mean i loved horror and scifi movies and comedies. Its tough to get to make movies. Its easier to do stand up. Rose it costs a lot of money. You just sign up. Rose you got to find somebody to give you that. Yes, its tough. Withstand up, you can go put your name on a list at a bar, go up and already do it. Youre a comedian. You could decide to be a comedian and be a comedy one in six hours. You want to be a filmmaker you have to convince a lot of people. Rose find some actors and find people to back you and find a director and an editor and then get a script. Theres a lot more skill involved in film making. Withstand up you can kind of figure it out as you go. Rose having said all of that, so many people who are good at stand up, take Jerry Seinfeld they want to go back. You can be as rich and successful as he is. Where is he any . Hes doing these projects but hes also doing stand up. Yes. Hes in our movie and still doing stand up. Rose i dont think letterman made much stand up after television. But does it all the time. Rose he would do it when the tonight show was at the top with him. Fly in las vegas and do it. He was doing like 300 shows a year while he was doing the tonight show. Thats a lot. Rose who was your hero. Jerry seinfeld. I loved Jerry Seinfeld and woody allen stand up from the 70s. I think some of that stuff happening now would be considered Ground Breaking because it was so different and weird. I was a big fan. Rose pacing and typing was so good. And it was so specific. He seemed so confident and i know his persona he said hes not confident. Hes nerdy. But he would tell these stories that are idiosyncratic and strange. Eight minute long stories where a minute in, if this doesnt work i have seven more awful minutes coming up. But he did it. I really admire that. Rose what did judd he taught me to trust myself because it can be very easy to dog yourself and think maybe i shouldnt be doing this or doing that. Also said that you can in a movie, you can express whatever you want to express and you dont have to figure it out or tie it up in any way. In the movie for a long time i was writing the script i wouldnt write anything about religion at all. I was very religious and judd said why werent you talking about religion and i was like i dont really know what to say about it. Just say that. Just say its complicated and you dont know how you feel about it. So thats what we put in the movie. His whole philosophy is just show people struggle. You dont have to show them overcoming those struggles. You dont have to show them understanding those struggles. You just have to show people having those struggles. Rose thats the theory we have here. Is writing for comedy writing for stand up different than writing the cent for a movie . Or is it a series of one liners strung together. No its very different but stand up theres kind of no word. I could do a joke thats a minute long and thats it. And thats how long its supposed to be. I can write a story thats eight minutes long and thats all it has to be. With the movie and its also very easy for me to write stand up for myself because i know my voice. When youre writing a movie youre writing all these other characters so you have to figure out how to write in their voices. Not just that you have to figure out all their points of view that every point in the movie everybodys perspective is clear and defined. And they sound like themselves and theyre doing what they would do. Then you also have to show in some way some journey for some of those characters. You have to show them struggling and you have to show some strange in their struggles. So all that stuff is tricky. If i do stand up i can veer off a story and come back to it and as long as its funny it doesnt matter. With a movie you really kind of have to be pretty focused on the story. Rose is it harder to write for a female character than it is say for yourself. Yes. Because i dont have the perspective of being a female. It was really great that i wrote it with my wife, emily gordon. The if she really, shes very smart rose she wrote all the female characters. Yes. I mean she really brought lot to it. Like she was the one who was like i dont think a woman would do this. I dont think it would be like this. No self respecting woman would do this. Its very easy. So many movies are made by a bunch of dudes you know guessing what a woman would do. Heres a trick, get a woman in there. Talk to them. Theyll help you get the character exactly down. And then zoe cause is an who plays emily in the movie and holly hunter who plays emilys mom in the movie were also very very helpful making sure the female characters of the movie felt real. Rose do you already have an idea for another movie. No, i dont. Im barely getting done with this one. Rose really. We come out really soon and its been, the good thing with judd has been he really puts you in charge of the process. Like he oversees it but you can be involved if you want to be. All throughout the editing, we were in the editing rose youre learning on the job here. Yes, you really are learning on the job. But do you know what you realize, ive watched so many movies but theres patterns and language of movies that are part of your neural pathways. Even if you havent thought about them, part of you understands them. So you can watch a movie and it ask be why doesnt that make sense. Why is that weird. Because they crossed the line. People are looking the wrong way. I feel most people have an understanding of that language. When youre editing you suddenly realize a lot more than you think you do. Especially i love that. Rose i was going to say, did you love it, you took the words out of my out. You pause a little bit longer and suddenly something funny. You take air out, suddenly something funny. Somebody is saying something and youre like i dont believe them and you just add 10 seconds to them thinking before they say it and suddenly you believe them. Its really brilliant. And working where its seeing people like holly hunter, seeing all her texts and watching how she works. Its really good but its a totally different performance. Its really really exciting. Rose when youre describing editing it rea minds when i was very young in journalism. They say when you write a stand up or close for a story often its best to take off whatever the last sentence was. Thats great. Thats really great advice. That really is because if youre doing a movie, doing what my acting teacher taught me. Shes like you want to, everything should be like you got to play like dump lings. It should be the dumpling you want and it keeps you going to the next scene. Writing in this movie like in stand up you do a big laugh at the end. At the end of every scene i was doing a big laugh and the director said it shouldnt be like that. Every scene should feel incomplete until the end of the movie. Every scene should end slightly before you want it to end. Rose i want to show this one scene, you and emily have been talking about the character played by zoe kazan. Here it is. Wait wait. We havent even had sex again yet. Im just not that kind of girl. I only have six once on the first date. Like a hand job. I dont get that. You dont get that because youre laying in front of me. What is happening, what are you doing. Im teasing under this im seeing everything. Do you remember we were just having sex. Yes. Thank you very much. I was like go home and i hope. Rose where do you think your core skill is . What is your core competence in all this . Is it the words, is it script . I think rose you certainly can add actor to this. I always considered myself primarily a writer when i first was doing stand up. I was like im a writer. The easiest way to get my writing out there is to go on stage and show my writing to people. It was the most efficient way to get my writing out there. I think, whats my core skill . I dont know. Yeah. I just like to sort of, im kind of a overthinker. I think about everything way too much. So the advantage is i overthink when someone says something to me im like why did they say that, are they being nice, do they want me to leave, i should leave. Do you know what, im going to stay just to spite them. Im going to say, so liable it all moves like that. So that can translate to stand up. And it can translate to other situations where you can sort of think different angles pretty quickly. Rose its great to have you here. Thank you. Rose the big sick. Thank you for joining us. See you next time. For more about this program and early episodes visit us online at pbs. Org and charlierose. Com. Captioning sponsored by Rose Communications captioned by Media Access Group at wgbh access. Wgbh. Org rose funding for charlie rose has been provided by and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and Information Services worldwide. Youre watching pbs. This is nignightly busines report with Tyler Mathisen and sue herera. Further increase in the federal funds rate would likely be appropriate this year. The fed chair tells investors to get ready for at least one more rat. And the dow rallies to a record. The new buffett way. Warren buffett wants to buy a utility. Ahedge fund is stand ng the way. Now, the billionaire investor ma do somethi he usually dont do. Bottom of the list, yesterday, we revealed americas for business tonight, the worst. Those stories and more tonight on nightly Business Report for wednesday, july 12th