Transcripts For KQED Charlie Rose 20161026

Faster, balls are jumping off my cup face again, im starting to get confidence in my body rose james clapper, tiger woods, phil knight, when we continue. Rose funding for charlie rose has been provided by the following and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and Information Services worldwide. Captioning sponsored by Rose Communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. Rose join me in welcoming james clapper. applause i want to begin with russia and the u. S. Relationship with russia. The russian u. N. Ambassador said, in the last week, that relations are as bad as hes seen them in the last 40 years. Characterize the u. S. Russian relationship. Well, its not its certainly not at its, you know, peak, by any stretch. Weve had a lot of difficult issues, notably in, you know, syria ukraine, just to name two. So its a stressed time for the relationship. I dont know that its, you know, worse than at times i can recall in the cold war era, we lived through all that, but its worse than that. There is some pretty bad times where we werent getting along at all. Still communicating. Secretary kerry and foreign minister lavrov are in constant dialogue, so thats a good thing. P but i think this will be clearly a challenge for the next administration. Rose so what do you think is driving putin . I think hes somewhat of a throwback, not so much to the hay day of the communist era, the soviet union, but a throwback to the czar era. I think he has this vision of the great a great russia as a great power. Its extremely important to him that russia be treated, respected as a global power on par with the United States. And i think that has a lot to do with impelling his behavior. Rose let me go to whats in the newspapers and everybodys mind today. It is hacking and a threat to or perhaps a motivation to impact the u. S. Elections. What can you tell us about that . Im probably not going to go much beyond the statement that secretary of Homeland Security jeh johnson issued about it. Many people seem to want me to repars the words which are already very parsed and agonized over. So i think the statement will stand for itself. I will say that, you know, there is a history here for the soviet union, russia now interfering in elections, both theirs and other peoples, and there is a history of this where theyve attempted to influence the outcome of our elections before. Rose and instead, he thinks we tried to interfere in his elections . Well, people live in glass houses, i guess applies here. laughter rose shouldnt throw rocks . Right. Thats the rest of the sentence. Rose yes. But will it have an impact . Do you think you will be successful . Has h he created suspicion . Have these disclosures raised questions that somehow will cause the people to question the American Democratic process and can they affected at the Voting Machines and all of that . I dont believe so, but thats not an issue for the National Intelligence apparatus to decide. I think the strength for us, in this case, is the highly decentralized nature of our voting apparatus, which is, you know, run by states and local jurisdictions. They make it very hard, i think, to affect the outcome. I dont know, in cases where Voting Machines are tied to the internet and, of course, thats the common denominator of the security weaknesses that we have. Your reference to hacking is germane. Rose but do you believe they would be doing this if it did not go to the top . Those things you could trace to russia would not be happening if, in fact is not freelanced by fsb or anybody else . I believe our statement said we believe the direction of ths is coming from the highest levels of the russian government. Rose i was hoping you would enlarge on that. Im not going to embellish that statement any more. Rose when we talk about a proportionate response, the Vice President said putin will know, but i hope others will not know. Well, i think he said something along the lines of if and when we do something, it will with it will be the time and place of our choosing. It may not necessarily be a symmetrical response. May be asymmetrical. Rose but there is also a sense that they are not paying a price for this. Well, maybe not yet. Rose maybe after the election . Well, again, im not going to preempt i mean, its a policy issue about what we do, if anything, and when we do it. Thats not an intelligence issue. Rose but you know things. laughter dont you . Well, 84 days, ill have my brainwashed. laughter rose it is said the president may generally worry about an escalation of this kind of thing with all the dangers there are both in terms of hacking but also in terms of cyberwar fair. Speaking of rose talking about hacking now. The election . Rose no, we respond, they respond, we respond, that gets out of control. Thats exactly tissue, and i can recall instances where we t a big head of steam up about wanting to retaliate in a symmetrical manner, and you have to consider things like are we counterattacking through another nation states infrastructure, which poses all kind of legal issues. Lawyers get very agitated about that. Then, of course, you need to think about the potential counterretaliations to the retaliation you took and how well you think and this applies to any nation state, how well you think we can withstand a retaliation, and those get to be very complicated colonel calculations. Rose and the complicated calculations. Rose and the risk is . Sometimes its better to consider other options other than the symmetrical one. Rose and the risk is . Given the tremendous dependence of this nation on the cyberdomain to do everything, whether personal, institutional, we have to think twice, i think, and be very cautious about retaliating in a cyber context because the presumption at the there is going to be an equally exquisite and precise calculus may not be a valid one to make. Rose but this is a new world were living in with respect to the internet. Precisely. Rose i mean, i love the terms they use fancy bear and cozy bear and ducifer. laughter okay. Rose does all of this show something about the vulnerability of our systems . It does. You know, when the internet was first as an experiment, and then as it mushroomed, security was never an integral part of what the interfeet was designed for, it just wasnt a consideration. Rose in fact, it was the opposite. So were kind of paying the price for that now. Rose what are our options . Well, i think were always going to be in in the absence of a technological breakthrough, were always going to be in somewhat of a catchup mode. There are fundamental cyber hygiene things that surprisingly people, individuals and institutions, dont attend to. Increasingly, though, i think there is an awareness, particularly in the commercial sector and, of course, the attention getter there is always how does this affect my bottom line. And that is what i think is motivating increasingly the private sector and private Sector Companies to pay more attention to cybersecurity. But its always an action and reaction. As long as we have this dependency on the internet, were with always going to have this fundamental challenge of how to promote security in the cyberdomain. Rose its a fact that weve gotten much better at attribution, havent we . We pretty much know where it comes from these days. Well, that certainly helps. I think that does provide perhaps some degree of deterrence, but, you know, we dont have enough body of law yet. We havent, in my opinion this is not company policy, its just me speaking but we have not been able to generate the substance or the psychology of deterrence in the cyber realm, and thats going to continue to be an issue for us. Its easier, perhaps, with nation states, but and, of course, nation states have other vulnerabilities besides their cybersecurity weaknesses. Its nonnation state entities, or the nations that have been in the past considered to have a lesser capability, and im thinking of the likes of iran and north korea where, you know, weve had this disparity or contrast between the capability of the most sophisticated nation state cyber acts which are clearly russia and china, but have, to this point, perhaps more benign intent. Then you have other countries who have a more nefarious intent, and even more nefarious are nonnation state actors. So how to create both the substance and psychology of deterrence against all those potential actors, i dont think we figured that out yet. Rose was the internet attacked a nonstate actor . There is an investigation going on. That appears to be preliminarily the case. Rose a nonstate accurate . Yes, but i wouldnt want to be conclusively definitive about that yet, whether a nation state might have been behind that or not. Rose you know, weve looked at the North Koreans and sony identified them. With the iranians later, there were some indictments. We havent said anything about the chinese, and it took us, like, three or four months to respond and identify the russians. I mean, whats the calculus behind all that . Well, in the most recent case, the reason for the delay was at least for my part was driven by confidence, a greater certitude about attribution. Rose right. And, in our business, its always better to have multiple sources when youre going to dime out a nation state publicly. So we have to be careful about that. The other thing about this business of attribution is that, oftentimes, the means by which we do that is fragile and perishable. So if we are too transparent about it, everybody would like to know, i want the details. Well, then we risk losing those perishable, fragile sources that give us the insight in the first place. Rose let me turn to north korea. Can you tell us how whats the status of their ability to put a Nuclear Warhead on a missile that can reach the west coast of the United States . Well, weve actually assessed that capability. We in the situation like this, always have the worst case. But in the case of their intercontinental ballistic missile, neither they nor we know whether that missile actually works. Its never been tested. But nevertheless, we ascribed them to them the capability to launch a missile that would have a weapon on it that potentially could reach parts of the United States, certainly including alaska and hawaii. Rose whats the time frame . The time frame for what . Rose for them being able to do that . Well, weve assessed this for, oh, years. Rose the they could do it . They could do it. Again rose worst case scenario. I say again neither they nor we know whether their Missile Systems will work, but we have to make the worst Case Assumption here. Rose okay. What if it worked . What are our options . Sanctions . Sabotage . Launch the missile . Rose no, we know they have that capability, so its not just a worst case scenario, but its a scenario thats possible and likely. What are our options, our strategy . Thats policy. I dont do policy. Rose yeah, i know, but you have opinions. Im just down in ten gin room shoveling down in the engine room shoveling coal. laughter rose but when the president says what do we do, whats your strategy . You say we have no opinions . I think there are a number of options. Military is one of them. Sanctions, although were kind of running out of gas on sanctions since weve imposed most of them. The key player with respect to sanctions, is of course, china. So if a military option were to be exercised, then obviously we would play very heavily in that process, but thats not a decision, fortunately, that Intelligence Community makes. Rose when you look at china and their game in the South China Sea this is not a policy question, thisis an analysis what are they up to . Is this some kind of Monroe Doctrine by china . The chinese feel very strongly about their recollect , about the exosht taint claims in the South China Sea, the maritime claim in the 9line. The tribunal decision notwithstanding, are very committed to their claims in the South China Sea. I was there recently and it was certainly reaffirmed to me by the chines chinese interlockleri see. Rose who do you engage with . Secretary mung who is the overseer for their intelligence and security organizations. Rose one thing the c. I. A. Does clearly and, therefore, you, is make an analysis of leadership in respective countries and their ambitions and their profiles. Lots of reports in newspapers about the continued authoritative kind of moves by xi jinping and that he may want to do another term. What can you tell us about him . Well thats always a hardy perennial for intelligence is plans and intentions of leaders, and we do the best we can. Oftentimes, we have to do it infeinferentially by behavior ty exhibit. There is an old song in intelligence about mysteries and secrets. Secrets have no facts and mysteries are. Were held to the same exact standard for divining both, and were not clairvoyant. Nevertheless, i would offer that president xi is you know, the thing that impels leadership in china first and foremost is domestic stability. Rose hence, there is a paranoia. Well, yes, i think there is a certain amount of, as we would call it, paranoia about being contained, very sensitive about the appearance of the cues contain of the u. S. Containing china. So i think the manifestation of that behavior is the way they have approached their claims in the South China Sea. But the biggest thing internally is domestic stability. So hes embarked on a Reform Program to try to eliminate corruption, and i think hes bent on keeping a control by the party apparatus, as well, which i find both disturbing and also impressive as the extensive militarization the chinese have mounted across many fronts. Rose including a huge naval investment to extend their power in the world. Yes, and also in the space arena. Rose right. In recognition of our dependence on space for lots of purposes, they have accounted for that as a part of their modernization. Rose characterize the middle east. A mess. laughter it makes your head hurt, it really does. Its an extremely complex situation there, and the complexity is probably most focused right now in syria, the many competing interests there. Rose including the russians. Including the russians. I think tom friedman, many of you know from writes for the New York Times i thought he had one of the great talks on sunday which is the mead is too important toying nor and too expensive to fix. Rose you said we cant fix the middle east. No, we cant. Rose what can we do . We can help others, but in the end, i think fixing the mideast, whatever that means, is not something the United States can do unilaterally. Rose but were participating in iraq in the battle to retake mosul with special forces and the air force. Correct. Rose how long will that take . Probably a long time. I tell you the greater dern i would have is what happens after mosul is diclaird erecaptured . Rose and what is your concern . What will happen in terms of holding it and more importantly, what about governance in mosul and recovery, depending on how much destruction occurs, you know, in a highly urbanized situation. And if that vacuum isnt filled rapidly with governance, provision of municipal services, et cetera, et cetera, that will just, you know, provide the Fertile Ground for i. S. I. L or some other Extremist Group to come back. Rose everybody in todays papers talk about turkey wanting to be in. Turkey is saying, please, we want to come fight and be part. Is that sort of like you want to be in on the takeoff so you can be in on the landing . The turks have yes, they are concerned about i. S. I. L, but the primary concern they have, of course, is a united kurdish nation if i could use the term with air quotes across their southern border. So they are most concerned about the kurds. Thats their primary motivation. Of course, to the extent they can prosecute the campaign against i. S. I. L rose the iraqi Prime Minister said he assumed this is going faster than he expected, and you have all the things, after mosul falls, you have said, you know, you clearly need some kind of governing there. Right. Rose this is also a concern in syria as well in terms of what happens there, you know, and if, in fact, i. S. I. L is defeated in raqqa, if that happens and they take the battle somewhere else, and you end up with a civil war there, just the civil war well, we already have one rose thats what i mean, but thats the primary fight there against the Assad Government and rebels. Its more complex than that because there are so many shades of opposition groups in syria and, of course, the added complexity of the russians who very much want to keep their beachhead to a hold, whatever figure you want to use, in the mideast, and by propping up what has been a staunch ally of theirs. Again, you know, that just adds to the complexity there. Rose its likely assad will be empowered when president obama leaves. Well, thats a fair guess, yeah. Rose so what do we do . Whats our strategy . Not my department. laughter rose what worries you the most . Hmm . Rose what worries you the most . Well, in general or rose about syria and about where its going and about whether mosul will make more likely an attack on raqqa, whether alnusra is what role they play, you know what concerns me, i guess, is lots of things concern me. Rose in fact you said the thing you worry about most is the thing you dont know. You remembered. Exactly. Thats very good. laughter so it is a concern. I think what we have to be mindful of as you know, the nation state attributes, such as they are, of the caliphate asserted by i. S. I. L is being defeated. Rose right. As a socalled or nationstatelike entity. But i think the history of i. S. I. L going back to its al quaida in iraq roots is up with of roots is one of resilience and flexibility. So the situation what worries me about all this is weve gotten focused, understandably, on recapturing territory or cities and, in this case, mosul and iraq and raqqa in syria. When that happens, i. S. I. L, what form does it take after that . Because its probably not going to go away, and it will morph into Something Else or other similar Extremist Groups will be spawned, and i believe we will be in the business of suppressing these extremist movements for a long time to come. Rose so whatever happens in raqqa, i. S. I. S. Will still be with us in some form or under some name, in the same way they morphed out of al quaida in iraq . Right. Rose when you look back, in terms of the intelligence world you have inhabited, what mistakes have we made . For example, with the focus on terrorism and all we had to do by nature, did we take our eye off what russia was doing . Thats a very good question, and i have been concerned about for the program i manage, the National Intelligence program, which is what funds the agencies and the other components of the Intelligence Community is the very large proportion of that that is devoted to counterterrorism, and while, at the same time, keeping our eye on all the other challenges that we have and, you know, major nation states like russia, china, north korea and iran, while were so focused and so consumed ana so preoccupied by counterterrorism, so i do worry about that. How we allocate resources in proportion to each one of those targets is not the unilateral Intelligence Communitys decision. We had lots of pep from the policymakers and the congress as well to determine those priorities, but just sitting in my position, i worry about that. Rose you have experience in this, too. Should the same person command both n. S. A. And cybersecurity . Well, i think weve reached the point where it is time to separate the two. I was a part of the decisionmaking in the pentagon, when i was the under secretary for intelligence, to start cybercom both as a subunified command and dualhat arrangement. That was never intended to be permanent, and thats been six years. I do think that weve reached the point where each of these responsibilities, you know, cybercom, commander and director of n. S. A. , are large enough and of sufficient magnitude that they should be separate. Ive done a couple of agencies myself as director of d. I. A. And director of n. G. A. For almost nine years and running any of these agencies is an allconsuming 7 by 24 proposition, so i, for lots of reasons, think they should be separate. Rose two last questions before i turn it over, if you were to leave a note on the next president s desk as is sort of a tradition with president s, what would your note to the next president say in. I would hope that the next president , whoever it is, would continue in the tradition of the current president in allowing and encouraging truth to power. I think that is a fundamental writ of intelligence that it be presented to the president in unpoliticized, unvarnished manner, and i would hope the next president would continue rose to want that and to need that. And to encourage it and to defend it. Rose last question. You said that what you worry about is what you dont know. And i mean this seriously. What might you not know . Well, a lot. Rose what is it that might be out there that you dont know about but you have some sense of you know, intuition backed by experience and some evidence that scares the hell out of you well, when you have some insight into, say, a terrorist plot, even though you may not know a lot of the details, but you have some insight, you may not know timing, may not know all the individuals who are involved, may not know exactly what the nature of the plot may be, but if you have something to start with, you can build on that. You can bring to bear more resources, more collection. So the situation the things you worry about when you have no insight whatsoever into a potential bad event and, of course, you can conjure up all sorts of nefarious scenarios that, you know, could happen that you may not know about. Rose i havent asked you this one last question about climate. Is climate a National Security issue . It certainly is. Were seeing this, already, the effects of climate on National Security issues. The things like availability of water or food or energy, and this increasingly, i believe, is going to play a big part in our National Security landscape in the future. Rose director clapper, thank you so much for joining us. applause rose 20 years of the Tiger Woods Foundation, and to hear people who have been touched p by the Tiger Woods Foundation and all the scholars who are found the cause of education to find a new life. We want to talk about education, philanthropy, this remarkable relationship between tiger and phil, between tiger and nike and talk about golf. Its an honor for me to be here. Lets me again with the obvious question, how did you two get together . He hired me. Rose he did . He came to you and said, i have some money for you. How much will it take . Phil . Yeah, just got to be a negotiation. But i got into new york last night in time to watch the debate. Rose yes. And i would say that tonights event is a lot better than that. applause which is not really a compliment. But one thing i learned from that is a new use to the word pivot. As long as tiger made me get up here, which i dont really like to do that much, i decided, for the next minute, well talk about what i want to talk about. applause i will read from a 1997 issue of sports illustrated. The 1997 masters was a monumental recordbreaking week, but beyond the scope of any record book, tiger broke down racial barriers that have been embedded in this sport since its inception. Woods identified as onehalf africanamerican and onehalf thai. But what the public saw from Augusta National to those fluid to their televisions is winning the national championship. The course had only begun to allow africanamericans to become club members seven years prior to woods victory. Clifford roberts, 1933, once said as long as im alive, golfers will be white and caddies will be black. Roberts quote does not mention champions. I was there that day. On the 18th green, the clubhouse with its maintenance people, its cooks, its waiters, emptied, africanamericans dropped their frying pans, mops, writing pads and came out to the 18th green to cheer. This was golfs Jackie Robinson moment. 19 years later, its somewhat forgotten because of what happened next. Tiger woods simply went on to transcend race. He is cheered by people from every nation and every color because of the dramatic way he won, because of his relationship with his mother and father, because of his relationship with his kids, because of his big smile and the way he competed. For 20 years, nycs been a small part of that journey, a slideline, really, but i can tell you its been an honor. cheers and applause when we first started the foundation 20 years ago, it was basically a traveling circus. Around various cities trying to raise funds for local junior golf charities and trying to teach the kids theres a way to earn money, to earn a job and earn a living besides going out there and playing professional golf. Fast forward, we had a tragedy here. 9 11 happened. I was in st. Louis playing the American Express championship, and i drove home on the 13th, nonstop, 18 hours, and i just kept thinking, what if i was in one of those planes in the building and i was gone, what would my Foundation Look like . And it would be gone. And, so, a week later, i went to my dad and said, pops, we need to create something different. We need to create something the kids can call their own, something they can touch and feel and something that is bricks and mortars. He says, what do you have in mind . I said, we have to create a building. He said, okay, let me go to work. Ten days later, he says, okay, ive got this place in anaheim you might know. Its h. D. Miller where i played my High School Golf across the street from savannah high school, and the mayor agreed to a 50year lease, a dollar a year, and they believe in what we can do for the community. I said, sweet. And he says, all right. What do you want to do . I said, were going to change the foundation from golfbased to educational based. He said, why . Well, i was raised where family came first, then education, then sports, whatever sport it may be, baseball, track, Cross Country or golf. So lets go back to putting family and Education First instead of golf. He says, all right. Youre taking over. I said, really . He said, youre ready. I set up for the direction. Youre the boss, lets go. Rose does this represent a second part of your life even though you created the Tiger Foundation with your dad in 1997 . Yeah, t. G. R. Is part of chapter 2 of my life. Im not going to play golf at the elite level 20 more years. Id like to, but i know thats not going to happen. I cant wait to get a senior tour and get a cart. Ill just be driving around in my cart. Put joey on the back. laughter but thats where, you know, i think this work is far more important than hitting ball and making a few putts. This work, as i said will change the world. These kids need our help, our support, our guidance, and i think they deserve it. Rose you both are passionate about science education, stem, youve given money to argon. Tell me about that sense of commitment for both of you . Science is really about the future. In a lot of ways, theyre somewhat synonyms, and i think basically that will ultimately be what defines the United States and oregon and really the world going ahead, to educate jung people in that area i think is hugely important. Rose and stem for you . Yes, science, technology, engineering and math is, i think, the way of the future. Our lives have changed so quickly so fast. I remember we were joking around earlier tonight that, when i was in college, we didnt have the internet, and i dont feel like im that old. Were talking about the dewey december mall system and dewey decimal system and microfiche. This happened so quickly. This is the way of the future as phil alruded to. Rose how have you seen tiger change over the years . Im not going to pivot on you. Only the one pivot. Obviously, hes gotten a little older. Yeah, hair. Im not talking about hair. You know, he says, thanks for taking a chance on a skinny kid. Yeah, he was skinny, but he was already a phenom, so it wasnt really that big a risk. We expected it to turn out well, and its turned out even better. But hes obviously matured, and im proud of the way hes matured, im proud of his association. applause rose so there is nobody in this room who doesnt want to know hows your golf . I assume youre talking to tiger. laughter im playing at home, shooting good numbers, shooting the mid 60s and things of that nature, but thats one thing. But i need to get out there and do it in a tournament setting and situation. Im getting there. Im getting to a point where im feeling more explosive, hitting faster, balls are starting to jump off my club face again, and im starting to gain confidence in my body, and its a lot of fun. Ive seen the numbers, ive seen what these younger guys are doing and what theyre able to do, and my numbers are climbing. So im excited about it, but also, as we all know, its about getting the job done and shooting the lowest score possible. And i understand how to play out there. I just need to get out there and do it. Just do it. laughter applause so i will. Rose there is also the question of when. laughter in the future. Rose what is it about him, phil, that makes us so curious about him and so rooting for him to come back is this. Well, it is really interesting that you have the five best players in the world, even though tiger hasnt played in almost a year, that tiger enters a tournament, tv ratings go up 25 , and that the world is interested in tiger and its just because, well, if you want to just look at the commercial aspects of it, which in some ways is what were talking about, hes done it all. Basically, hes articulate, hes a great human being, hes handsome and he wins. Aw laughter no, i mean, its the full package of what youre looking for, for us for an endorsement, what television is looking for, for a hero. Rose why is it . Because he played the game so well and people want to see him come back, and if they might be witnessing that, thats why the ratings go up. Well, i think so, and theyre rooting for him. You know, when you elect a president , he becomes part of the family, and sports is sports and music are the big parts of American Culture people identify with. So tiger woods has for 20 years been part of the family and they want part of the family come back. Rose and you have the Tiger Foundation and you know youre touching lives and to know what the Tiger Foundation can do to change a Young Persons life that has meaning as much as winning golf tournaments . To be honest with you, as a sports figure, were in the entertainment industry, you know, and were just on tv entertaining people. People want to watch, cheer, root or boo, whatever they want to do, but thats part of it. What were doing with the foundation and helping these kids is literally going to change the perception and reality of their lives and make it so much better not only for them but their entire families and communities, and that spreads like wildfire. Were trying to do it at the grassroots level, and its been fun these last 20 years, but these next 20 and beyond will be absolutely incredible. Rose what new directions might you go with the Tiger Woods Foundation beyond what we talked about . Were focused on stem. Were very singleminded on that. I believe in being focused on one thing, and i think weve done that, but i think there is different opportunities within that. What i mean by that is we can expand using our new digital platforms not just here domestically but internationally. We can teach so many different kids in these different areas that whatever their needs are, i think we will meet them through stem, and each individual city or each individual state or each individual country may have different needs, and its up to us to work with the government bodies or the states or even the cities at the local level to know what exactly those needs are, and we will create the programs that are necessary for those needs. Rose will you take a more public role, generally . Absolutely. Thats one of the reasons why we created t. G. R. This is the new chapter 2 of my life and, yeah, i will take a more public role in that regard, but i still want to take some tournaments. Rose thats the warrior spirit. Have you known anybody who knew Michael Jordan have you known anybody that has the will to win any high than the guy to your left . No, its right at the top, but there are others that are alongside of him, michael being one and lebron being another one and maria sherr pova sit sharapova sitting out here today being one applause its a common trait of the greats. Rose define it for us. Well, serena williams, maybe, also. Rose yeah. And it wasnt in her early years, she wouldnt really play good till she was down and then she just wouldnt lose. And i think thats what it is. They just refuse. There are not have many of them. You can see many, many people come along with the potential or the next great one and very few of them become the next great one, and really, to be really great, it comes more from inside than outside, really. Rose did you acquire that, tiger, or were you born with it . Ive learned to develop it, but ive always liked beating people. First of all, i wanted to beat my dad in whatever we were playing. That, to me, was fun. I like to compete. Okay, i like to compete. Im very competitive by nature and veria aggressive by and very aggressive by nature when it comes to competing. So im not afraid to mix it up and get out there and try and get it done. Rose there is been no diminution of that, that will, that intense desire . Well, the mind hasnt changed, but the body certainly has. laughter ive put it through its paces. Weve won through ive won through tough injuries and tough times fiscally, but whats allowed me to do that has been, i think, the internal drive has allowed me to overcome some of these obstacles, some of the different injuries ive had and played through, and even some of the injuries that people dont know ive played through. But, you know, the whole idea is, once i start and compete, thats it. You just go out there and compete, and i try to figure out a way to get it done. Rose your mom is in the audience, maybe. Is she here . Let me just say tigers desire to beat his dad was real. He kept a scorecard the first time he ever beat his dad, and they went to the 17th hole all even and his dad went parpar and tiger went parbirdie. And we took the card, photographed it and we have it in a building at our campus, coincidentally named the tiger woods building, but its about this size and its signed by tiger woods, age 11, 10 months. Shot a 71, by the way, on the blue. Rose do you remember i remember playing my as off that day. laughter rose do you remember hole by hole, shot by shot, of the great majors youve won . And the tournaments ive lost, too. I have a pretty good memory of most ive played. Rose whats it like coming up on the 18th hole of the final day knowing youve won again . Knowing ive won is one thing, but ive still got to cross the hein. One of the things i learned in track and Cross Country is its not over. You run through the tape. Just because i know i have a big lead, whether in double digits or not, doesnt matter, ive still got to finish the race. So i keep pushing myself, keep pushing. Its interesting, sometimes i make birdie on last hole because ive just got to be keep pushing. Its weird how i keep pushing myself at times. In 2001, i had a chance to win the masters, to win four majors in a row, and i made the putt in the last hole and i went to the side. I was about ready to get my yardage book out for the next hole, and i thought, crap, i just won the masters. laughter but i was just so prepared to move on and keep going, i finally realized i just won. That kind of gives you an insight into how i am and keep moving. Rose do you learn more from losing or winning. Both. I think so its both. I have to take a serious look at myself. Its what allowed me to win. Where did i go wrong when i lost. In this sport, we lose far more than i win. So taking a harder look at myself sometimes, its not fun, you know, that i messed up on that this year, made a wrong decision here, should have played that angle, you know, why didnt i understand or remember what that putt broke like three years ago. You know, i had the same putt. That, to me, are things that are fixable but also are taking a hard look at myself at times and turning around for the next day. Rose we are here celebrating the 20t 20th anniversary of this foundation and weve laid out what the future of the foundation is, weve talked about your game, your nse, a second beginning. Aof in a so thank you. Thank you. Rose thank you, phil. Thank you. applause rose for more about this program and earlier episodes, visit us online at pbs. Org and charlierose. Com. Captioning sponsored by Rose Communications captioned by Media Access Group at wgbh access. Wgbh. Org rose funding for charlie rose has been provided by and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and Information Services worldwide. Announcer the following kqed production was produced in high definition. Must have soup the pancake is to die for it was a gutbomb, but i liked it. I actually fantasized in private moments about the food i had. I didnt like it. You didnt like it . Dining here makes me feel rich. And what about dessert . Pecan pie . Sweet potato pie