Transcripts For KQED Charlie Rose 20160816

In front of my eyes as i was reading. Which i think is testament to the writing, of course. But immediately i wanted to direct it. And i didnt really think of playing the part because i was 26 or something. And it took me so long to get it together to be able to make the film. But i actually aged into being able to play the role. Rose hugh hewitt, dan balz, Natalie Portman. What a show, next. Funding for charlie rose is provided by the rose funding for charlie rose has been provided by the following and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and Information Services worldwide. Captioning sponsored by Rose Communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. Rose we begin this evening with the 2016 president ial election, donald trump is seeking to stabilize his campaign after weeks of stepping on his message, and declining poll numbers. Hillary clinton continues to widen her league in key battleground states including florida and pennsylvania. Trumps Campaign Chairman paul man a forth is also under fire. New york times reported over the weekend he received 12. 7 million in undises closed Cash Payments for consulting with ukrainian president victorrian cough itch administration he denies the report. Trump delivered a report from ohio focused largely on his strategy to fight radical islam. The time is overdue to develop a new Screening Test for the threat we face today. I call it extreme vetting. I call it extreme, extreme vetting. Our country has enough problems. We dont need more. And these are problems like weve never had before. Rose were taping this program at approximately 1 p. M. In the east before trumps speech. Joining me now from orange county, california, is hugh hewitt. He is host of a popular conservative Radio Program the hugh hewitt show. Also joining us from washington d. C. Dan balz, is he the chief correspondent at the Washington Post. I am pleased to have both of them at this time. Hugh, tell me, i am fascinated by the idea of how trump continues to get in the way of his message. He does. Rose is that in his dna. He does, charlie. And its an instability inability to stay focused that hurt him a lot in this month when he could have been repurposing and repositioning the message. I think the youngstown state will obviously have to read the reaction tomorrow. I hope he doesnt step on his message again like he did last week, gave a great speech in detroit, made offhanded comnts about the second amendment, stepped on his message of economic renewal and massive tax cuts and rewrites and that was totally lost for the entire week. Today at the home of dike beaty, the man who invented the penalty flag t is in my backyard in the steel valley of oil ohio, he will try again to reset and if he stays on message, he can be very successful in this area for reasons we can talk about at length, secretary clinton doesnt have a great record when it comes to stopping isis. But hes got to make sure shes the focus and not some side bar that he ignites at the same time. Rose is it too late to do that, dan . Its getting very late, charlie. There is no question about it. The hole he has dug for himself is very wide and very deep at this point. The national polls, the real clear politics average over the weekend was six points plus. Thats not at all a close election. The battleground states looked very bad for him at this point. The Electoral College forecast looked very bad for him at this point. One would say, you know, never say never in a campaign but he really is running out of time. And i mean, the problem is, you know, politics is the game of addition, not sub straks. And in all storts sorts of ways he is blocking access to his candidacy to people and groups he really needs to go after. And it is because of what hugh said, he creates these die versions from his real message. And carries out these fights, grieveances that he continues to try to litigate long after he needs to worry about them. There is just a lot of needs to do he cant be somebody other than who he is but hes got to find a way to both be who he is an to stay on a message that is consistent and focused on Hillary Clinton. Rose do you believe thats a winning message, dan . I think its a possibly winning message. Charlie, were in an environment we talked about this before. We are in an environment where people are looking for change. They are not happy with the status quo. Theyre not happy with washington. Theyre not happy with the way the political system works. They think something dramatic needs to be done to kind of shake it up. And donald trump in many ways is the candidate who is best positioned to do that. Hillary clinton is an establishment candidate. She will carry on a continuation of policies that weve had for the last eight years. Many people like those, many people dont. But he cannot become the candidate for change when hes talking about everything other than that. Rose thats exactly what you believe, isnt it, hugh . Yes, it is. In fact i was thinking when dan was talking, he did a piece for the Washington Post yesterday on sunday that sum arized the crisis that currently exists within the trump campaign. And its all unforced error. I believe that donald trump could be ten points ahead right now had he begun to execute in may a purposeful messagedriven, especially targeted at the underclass in america, the working class in america, the lower class in america who feel left behind. He is the tractor beam for people who are despairing in this country. And there is currently a very hot book out there. You may have talked to jd vance about hill billy hology. Yes, yes. And so its about the working class in america. And the deep disfunction and almost sense of hopelessness that is absorbed large communities in states that donald trump needs to carry. Pennsylvania, ohio, michigan. And i believe that dan just eluded to this. Its possible still to energize and encourage that group of people and say to the coal mine errs that miss clinton wants to put out of work, i dont want to put you out of work. I want to put you back to, without. And to say to the automobile manufacturing plants which are empty in michigan, and the steel plants that are closed in ohio, we can repurpose those plants and bring back jobs am but it is very late if the day. It aint over because its not septembers. And the debailts still matter quite a lot. But boy its late as dan wrote yesterday. Its very late. Rose is this Donald Trumps message or simply a message that he converged with in this campaign season. Do you feel the discontent, does he understand the discon tept that those people in that you have been speak being in the last two minutes. I think he appropriated it and i think his 11 years in television, Reality Television brings him into touch with a lot of people who are eager to succeed in finding barriers in their way. And he is much a populist kind of figure in the way that famous populists have been before. Theyre not living a populist lifestyle. Theyre not. People but they are very much in touch with the people. I would also point out and interesting, if dan has noticed this, marco rubio is far ahead in florida. Rob portman is far ahead in ohio, pat toomy is neck and neck in pennsylvania. The republicans arent getting blown out there are Organization Structures in these states that trump can harness to his advantage if he chooses to do so. If he makes some appointments and makes some gestures that way. But its up to him. Rose dan, do you agree . I do up to a point. I mean i think hugh is right f you look at the senate race, the republicans are not getting blown out at a time when donald trump is performing weakly in those states. I think that to hughs point, there is, there is a disaffected, dissatisfied electorate out there. But i think that trumps problem is whether there are enough of those white blue clar workers to actually win the election. My hunch is that there are not. That he has to go beyond that. And i mean if you look at the polling, the most important thing and our friend Ron Brownstein has written smartly about this all year. There is a gap that has opened up between those with College Degrees and those without College Degrees. And in the White Community donald trump does extremely well with those who do not have College Degrees. But he is losing in many places, if not most places, among whites with College Degrees. That is a departure from the way republican can the das have performed in the past. He doesnt have to win them overwhelmingly. But he has to do better than he is doing. He has to do better with women than he is doing. He cant get blown out in some of these areas in the way hes getting blown out now. And still hope there is enough of a reservoir of the disaffected White Working Class that can put him over the top. Rose hugh . Well, in 1968 there was such volatility that no one really knew what would happen until the end. And i believe that we are in that era of volatility again. In fact, milwaukee could easily have gotten a lot worse than it did get better over the weekend and hopefully it will remain calm. But as california senterring fire season, so america is entering its political fire season. And these debates and the events in the saddle in the middle east, in crimea where there are troops massing on both sides of the new border, the russian imposed border, in syria where the genocide goes on and indeed, across the Unitied States in urban america, lots of stuff can happen. Im just reluctant to say even if mid september rolls around and donald trump is down by a real clear politics average of ten points, i just dont know in this year of black swans whether or not there isnt enough one going to descend in the stretch run. And there is also the risk that something might come out, i guess dan also, about Hillary Clinton because of the release of these emails, the directors interview of fbi interview of hillary, what emails might be coming. That great question mark hangs over her, doesnt it . It certainly does, charlie. And shes not been able to put that to rest through the course of this entire campaign. And in fact has recently made it worse or brought it back to the forefront with her interntion of what fbi director comey said as opposed to what most people think, and comey said. So those revelations may and well continue to haunt her all the way to election day. The question i guess is are they clear cut enough to really change per sengses or are they in the area of kind of murkiness so that people who have already kinding of made up their minds stick with which side of the ledger they feel those talk about. So but thats a problem. But you know, we go back to donald trump constantly. The issue is in one way or another, hes unable to keep the focus on Hillary Clinton. In fact, he does the opposite. He draws attention away from her weaknesses and her vulnerabilities. And brings it back on himself so that when things happen to her, they become less of a story than they might if he were able to run a more consistent campaign. You had had an interview with donald trump and said to him as i remember, you said Something Like clearly i understand what you meant. You meant when you talked about obama being a cofounder of isis. You meant the deal that he made to lead, for american troops to leave iran, to leave iraq and that that had lead to the resurgence because of how the shia government treated sunnies and all of that. And alqaeda came back. Thats exactly what you thought he mentd. But he didnt mean that. I was sincere because i believe that the president lost the piece in 2011 by the precipitous withdrawal of american troops from iraq and the failure to, secretary clintons failure to negotiate and the exextension of status of forces agreement which was the avowed reason we couldnt stay as we didnt have an agreement. We have troops there today so it never made sense but we left. And into that vacuum in anbar process spilled the Syrian Civil War and al baghdadi troop flying the black flags that zar quawee invented. I thought he was ready to give us an argument, no, he said no. As dan just eluded to, in that same interview we talked about gilbert shagu, ri, a nigerian lebanese billionaire whose money has a distinct odor around it coming from the period of the nigerian dictatorship and who has had to pay 300 million to the Nigerian Government to avoid criminal charges in the past. And there is a, an email from doug ban at the Clinton Foundation to whom at the state Department Three months into mrs. Clintons tenure, help us out, we need some help for shagu ri who needs help, she writes back this is the ambassador. Rose the ambassador or former ambassador. I think it was the current ambassador that huma abadin offered to intervene with, but the former ambassador now said i stepped forward said i never got the call. I didnt do anything. So they have done some repair. What donald trump ought to have done all last week is not yell at the New York Times or the Washington Post, but speak the name gill shert schguri again and again and again. And bathe the trap to the media not to investigate himself or his press approach, which i have argued with him is kownlt productive and not in the american tradition, but instead, he put the attention back on himself, mot on mrs. Clinton. It is just a amiss take t is 101, campaign 101, not executed well. Rose so one more time as weve all asked a thousand times, why does he do it . If you are the star of im beginning to think what was his greatest strength in the primary, the masterful use of television to make yourself the center of attention in every show, the 12 debates that we did of which i was a part of four of them, that same ability to make yourself the center of attention is not its not something he can turn off. It is a permanent on switch. And that is what makes for great tv. Its what makes for wonderful primary runs. It doesnt make for a great general election campaign. Rose you said, dan, that trump had to expand rather than subtract subtract in the colume that hugh referred to and that i read from earlier. Can she expand, does she have a potential to appeal to the economic insecurity and the economic discontent that is part of. Rose go ahead. Well, she certainly has tried. I think that from the start of her campaign shes talked about a principal focus will be to raise wages for all americans. Wage stagnation is an important issue. Its created some of the economic insecurity that we see in a lot of parts of the country. She has talked about an economy that works for everybody. But she has not galvanized that issue. And she certainly has not galvanized that constituency that a lot of that constituency, the White Working Class constituency is donald trump. So she has the ability. But you know, if you look at the last few elections, the Obama Coalition to the degree that she can reassemble that is a coalition that gets you over 50 and gets you over 270 electoral votes. So she has an easier way both to get to 50 in a headtohead race or to get to 270 electoral votes. His path is very, very difficult. And so one of the problems he has right now is if you look at the polling both nationally, our most recent poll and in a number of the battleground state polls that have come out, her percentage among democrats is about what she needs which is 90 or 92 or 93 . His percentage among republicans is not close to that. It is in some cases the high 70st to the low 80s. He needs to bring that republican support up to 90 noferred to truly be competitive. If you see that number moving up, and not just creeping up but moving up fairly directly over the next few weeks, then this race will look much more competitive. But until that begins to happen, shell have the advantage. Rose do you think donald trump has Ronald Reagans charm . He does not have his charm. He does have even more training in the art of ffertion. And i believe there is a good chance that secretary clinton will not did he bait because their lead is so substantial that whatever knock she would get for refusing to do so is not equal to equal to the risk of donald trump using his very welldocumented tv chops. We saw him in the debates do this time and time again, via attacks on moderators. Via attacks on candidates, via speaking directly to camera. I dont see the upside for her in debating him. We will have to wait and see. But reagan used those opportunities. I think donald trump will as well. Can you imagine that she can get away with that, dan. I done think she wants to get away with that. I will be surprised. Theyve already put out a statement to john poddesta the chairman of the campaign put out a Statement Last week saying they will accept the erm its of the debate commission, they will be at the three debates that will already are already set in terms of the dates and abide by the fore mats that have already been set. Dold trump has not yet done that in an explicit way. There has been indications that he will participate in three dedebates but he has not explicitly said he will show up on the three dates on the calender at this point or accept the terms under which these debates are held by the commission. So the gap at this point is on trumps side. He thinks, he believes he won all the primary season debates. He believes that he is an effective debater. And he dominated those stages as you both recall when there were a number of people on the stage with him. A headtohead debate with Hillary Clinton will be different. But hes demonstrated an ability on Live Television performances i would think it would be in his interest to want to be on that stage for all of those did he baits. Rose my guess is that he knows that, and everything he says or is saying is simply negotiation. That may be. I agree with that. That well may be the case, yeah. Rose people close to him have said to me, hugh, the problem with donald trump or one of the problems, people close to him, is that everything is a transaction and everything, this has become part of the conventional wisdom. He sees everything as a negotiation and whatever he says goes back to how he spent his life. Which is basically starting at one place, hoping he will end up somewhere else. Yeah, i think when we look back and dan writes his book about this campaign, he is the developer. And he has always been a developer. In my legal career i have always represented large land developers. And everything is a negotiation. And every rule is per mable and every no can be changed to a yes and every density that you are given can be upped an every acre taken away can be recap pureed captured. So everything Donald Trumps do is based on a lifetime of success in development. So a believe hes approaching these debates this way, trying to get a larger office, trying to get an office opposite the nfl, trying to remove what i believe is the dead hand of the president ial commission on this because it is boring and stayed and they ought to get rid of that townhall fore mat, but there is an development of negotiation. If any change at all is made i think secretary clinton can pull a Richard Nixon from 1972 can walk off and wave goodbye to these debates because there is no upside for her. U. S. A. Today says young voters are fleeing donald trump in what may be a historic trownsing. The survey shows clinton trownsing trump 5620 under those and 35. He felt during the democratic primary bat well Bernie Sanders that she had no appeal to the young voters. Now compared to donald trump, she does. Well, my theory of that, i will turn to dan, it if millenials dont like mean people. If i can sum it up. They dont. Bernie sanders was perceived, it is not an age thing s they dont like mean people. And donald trump has been perceived as being mean and millenials flee from that. And i think thats the long ard short of it. I dont know if dan agrees with that. I do. We did a long piece that phil rucker anchored over the weekend. There were a number of us out around the country last week talking to young voters. We found two things. One is that theyre not wild about this choice. They dont find either of these candidates tkly inspiring. On the other hand, they find donald trump a lot scarier. And a lot less appealing than they find Hillary Clinton. So i think that our reporting bears out the polling which is that they are going to go in big numbers for Hillary Clinton. I think the issue for her as it has been all along is whether she can generate the kind of enthusiasm that brings out the big turnout that barack o bamenta was able to do. But in terms of percentages she will do handsomely with that group of voters. Rose when i talk to people in the Clinton Campaign i ask them where what they worry about most, and they say turnout. I think thats right. I think that is the issue. We know she has not been an inspiring candidate. Bernie sanders did as well as he did during the primaries in part because he was able to inspire people. He had a authenticity about his message and she struggled with that. He had a clarity of his message, as does donald trump when he is on message that she has lacked it is very hard, when she gives a speech on a subject to boil that down into something simple and say here is what the Clinton Campaign is about. Other than kind of competent tense and incremental probing res based on where we are today versus where we were and where people want to go. So the issue for her sin spiring people. For a lot of democrats donald trump is a figure who inspires them to want to get out and vote against him and to vote for her. But in so much of the polling that weve looked at this year, on both sides, there are as many or more people voting because they are voting against the opponent rather than because they are enthusiasticically voting for the nominee of their party. And that is an issue for her whether it is with young vote eros es or latinos or africanamericans. Shes got to make sure that the energy is there. Do you accept thatth bo of them are the least popular candidates ever to run for the presidency . I do. The voter misery index which i borrowed from Ronald Reagan and changed a little bit adds the negatives of the two candidates. And they are running away with the voter missy index the way ledecky ran away with every one of her heatings in the olympic. They are the least like batman and robin thanever. Rose i was waiting for you to connect this to literature or film and you connected it to the olympics. To sports. What is your take on trump and putin . I believe a putin is so far ahead of most americans of both parties when it comes to playing the grand game, the great game. I remember interviewing Vice President cheney not once but twice and asking him about putin. He said when i looked in his eyes i saw a kgb kernel. So the kgb kernel has got russian doll in russian doll in russian doll. If people think he wants trump to win he probably wants hiltry to when, tb they think he wants hiltry to win, he probably want trumps to win. Is he winning every where he is writtenning in crimea, in mol dozen dove blanca estonia, leading pressure in the baltics republics. Putin is wing. And what he wants to do american politics is interfere and medel and we ought to be concerned about that. I just dont know that we know what his gaim plan is and i would be the last person to presume to say i have any idea what this kgb expert is up to. Rose you know what bob gates said. He said he saw a stone cold killer when he looked into his eyes. Dan, what is your make on paul man a forth and todays New York Times story. It is a damaging story. To be fair to him, he has denied it. He said i have never taken any cash. Have i never taken off the book payments. I never worked for either the government of ukraine or the government of russia. But you know, we know he operated there. We know the history of that. We know as hugh said that american con sument ants are in a lot of places oversees and the question is on which side are you operating and for what kind of candidate are you operating. I think this is one of these issues that will continue to kind of be out there surrounding him and particularly because of the way donald trump seemingly has related to vladimir putin. Putin said nice things about him and trumps mo is if people say nice things about him, he says nice things about them. And you know, so it has created an aura that there is a coziness there particularly between trump and putin. I take hughs point. I have no idea what putins real game. Is and wouldnt pretend to suggest that i do. But trump and now man a forth have gotten themselve mana forth have gotten them sufficientev up they have to explain or deny or put it to rest and it is hard when these stories keep coming up. There was an old roman resulter named sul blanca Julius Caeser before caeser. I said this on air before. On his tomb is the saying no friend has done me a favor, nor enemy an injury that i have not repaid in full. And what dan just referred to, trump reacts very much that way. The sula re reflex. If you say nice things about him, he likes. I brought up mary cath ranham as a potential debate moderator since she did so well in one of the debates. And he said oh no, she doesnt say nice things about me. She is off the list. Mary catherine is a conservative. I dont think Hillary Clinton would be accepting her but i was surprised donald trump but that is his mo it is very personal. Politics is very personal with him. Rose and then there is the income tax returns. Well look, i asked him in february of 2015. Would you release them. And he said he would. And i talked to him about the number of years in which he would release them and he said he would go back, what is the norm, one, two, three. We talked as though it was a fate a come pli accompli. I do not believe he would be looking at september of 2016 with the expectation he would have to release them. He is not going to relocal release them that is not happening and it probably dnt matter to 99. 9 of the american public. What matter to them is, our friend matt dawd has said often and im sure dan has heard him say this, who understands me better. The American Voter goes in and says who gets me. Who knows where i am, who cares about me. And in this election, theyre looking at both of these candidates an theyre saying i dont think either of them give a rats patooty for my life right now. And thats the problem. Dan, will he be forced to release them or can he as hugh just suggested, in the end voters scrks i think its more than cares about me, understands me in my words. On the tax returns, charlie, i think hes made a calculation that. Rose exactly. That hugh is correct. He does not have to release them and most people wont care. I think the issue is what is there that he doesnt want to release. Rose exactly. But the second is, what does that tell us about what kind of presidency he would operate. Would he operate under the norms we expect of a president , in terms of transparency. Or would he not. And i think thats a question that goes beyond the issue of the tax returns. Rose do you agree with that, hugh . He obviously has something to hide, does he not. And what is your speculation as to what he might have to hide in those tax returns. Is it some relationship with somebody or is it how much money he reported or how many charitable deductions he took or Something Like that . I hesitate to speculate only because have i always been underwhile amed by everyones tax returns. Mitt romney was reluctant to release them and it came out he made a lot of money and some of it was in an offshore account in the grand cayman. I have no idea what some people perceive as their vulnerability, whether they pay too little, pay too much, they have negotiations which are unsavory or people dont understand. Have i never figured it out. I will say this, i dont think it really does matter. I think donald trump is in control of his own ability to close the gap and develop some momentum. It wont be the tax returns. It will be his ability to sit down with people like you, charlie, people like me, people like dan and communicate warmth and caring. Not just the oligarch, not just the man of power but fdr was all that but he also had a bedside manner, if you will, a radioside manner that was charming and engaging as was Ronald Reagan. I have seen that in donald trump. I have actually seen him do that and i have talked to him when he has done that. If he can flip on that switch as opposed to the i am going to keep these reporters out of my rally switch, i think he does much better when hes happy. Rose on that, thank you so much, hugh hewitt, thank you so much dan balz, a pleasure always, always. Thank you, charlie. Well be right back. Stay with us. Natalie porltman is here. She makes her direct yal debut in a tale of love and darkness. She also wrote and stars in the film it is adapted from amos oz best selling 2002 memoir. The film chronicles the founding of israel through the lenz of his family. Here is the trailer for the film. Im pleased to have Natalie Portman back at this table. Welcome. Thank you so much for having me. Rose the obvious question is, why this film for your direct or yal debut, first of all it is in hebrew. Gentlemen. Rose second, when you started being interested in it, you were too young to play the role. S when it first came out in translation, almost ten years ago. And it was so moving to me immediately and i saw the film in front of my eyes as i was reading which i think is testament to ozs writing, of course. But immediately i wanted to direct it and i didnt really think of playing the part because i was of it or something. And it took me so long to get it together, to be able to make the film that i actually aged into being able to play the role. Rose but even then you really wanted to just direct. Yes. Rose and when you went to get the money, people say. Hebrew. Crazy, you know, your and you have no, you know, known actors. How do you expect us to give you money for this. So that also helped persuade me to be in it. Rose what was it about this book. Well, i think the language is so beautiful in the book. And it really deals with the period of time that i have heard about so much in my own family. I was born in israel. My grandparents on my fathers side moved to what was then british mandate pal stein from Eastern Europe as refugees. And so i have had, when you imagine something your whole life, that is sort of creates a visual repper tory for what you can create as i director. And excited about the film being made. He was incredibly generous. I think it was always hard for him because he said from the beginning, you know, this is my story. It is me, its my name t is me as a child, its my mother, its my writing, of course, my book. All of it is so personal. So just we ware, im going to be, you know, emotional with. This but hes been incredibly supportive and loving with the film and by extension with me. He said to me from the very beginning, make it your own. The book exists so dont try and film the book. Rose take a look at. This this is an inter interview with him on the show in 2011 talking about his mother who natalie plays, here st. Your mother committed suicide. Yes, she killed herself when i was 12. Rose as 38. Yes, she was 38 and i was 12 and a half. Rose did your father ever talk to you about it. Never. Rose not one word. We never talked about it, never, not him, not me, never until his dying day, not a word. Rose not a word. Not a word about her, as if she never existed. Not only about her death. We never talked about her life. We never talked about her he and i raced her from our lives. I dont know about him, but i was very angry with her for killing herself. Rose yeah. As if she ran off with a lover without leaving us a note. She who always insisted that anyone who leaves the home, leaves a note under the flower vais telling where he is going and when he is or she is coming back. She left us without a note. So i was angry at her. Rose for a long time. I was angry at my father for losing her and i was angry with myself because i was sure it was my fault. If hi been a good little boy, she would have stayed. So for many years i was anger and silence, silence and anger. Rose and how did you come to grips with it all . Well, with age, i began to look at my parents as if they were my children. As if i was my parents parents. And i could think about them with a smile, with sympathy, with humor, with compassion and with curiosity. Rose so thats the woman you played. Yeah, its moving to watch him talk about it. Hes such a heart and soul and mind all at once. But yeah, its incredible and you really see that having to tell his mothers story, to have to tell himself his mothers story was obviously form tiff for him as a writer. Rose she lived in a fantasy world in part, didnt she. In part. I think he describes it as slaffic mel an alcohollee. And i think there is this tragic romant civil of that slaffic literature that she grew up in. That you know, the equation of sadness with beauty. Makes living with disappointed dreams that much more difficult. And yeah, its beautiful to see sort of his evolution as a writer in this gap that she leads for him. Rose the interesting thing too, in a sense, your story of israel is a story of dreams and at the same time reality. Right. Absolutely. That very much her experience as an immigrant, and her experience as a mother and as a wife, of having these expectations that are unfulfilled by the new country, by the husband, by her position in society as a woman. Rose so she was an early feminist. I mean, i dont know if she would define herself as that. But for sure i think there was frustration. Rose sure. Yeah. And you disee that with the zionist dreams as he say there are many zionisms there is not one, there were hundreds of zionisms, theres with a religious zionism, a secretary you lar utopian socialist zionism. And none of those dreams have turned out the way that the dreamers dreamed. Rose yeah. And but how you deal with the disappointed dreams sort of depends on your mental health, i think. Rose the hebrew language was crucial for you. Yes. Rose more than anything. It was really important because its one of the most magical things to me, if not the most magical thing about this time, is that they revived the language which i dont think has ever happened in the history of the world that a language that was essentially dead becomes. Rose was revived. Yeah. And he said something beautiful, that it became a modern language when the first boy said to the first girl, i love you, or girl to boy in modern hebrew, which is, it is what makes the language alive. Rose he was surprised that the book became an International Best seller. Yes. Rose he said this is an israeli story. Yes, he says he thought it would be, you know, a particular corner in jerusalem that would read it and that was it because it is so specific. But of course the most specific things. Rose he has seen the fill snm. He has. And was incredibly love being it. He was very, very he really liked it which was very meaningful to me, because of course more than anything, i revere him. Rose why did she commit suicide . Because some of the things you said, frustration . Yeah, i think. Rose reality didnt match vision. I think its a mystery t is actually something, he gave me very few guide lines, almost, when he gave me permission to make the film but he said dont try to answer it. People have asked me permission before to make the film but they would always adapt the screenplay and make it like she had a lover that died back in europe and she thought about him all the time. Or you know, they would always try and give some explanation. And he said who knows the answers. Rose he doesnt know. No. I think there is a whole there are many things that you could say but ultimately no one knows. And i think there are, i mean i tried to show in the film the different, you know, pressures of living in a place that is extremely violent. Of having lost everything in the place you came from, as a refugee from, you know, absolute a nielation of your community in europe and the pressures of being a woman and not being able to express yourself. And you know, and just having this romantic outlook on the world that is not matched by reality. Rose and that israel is to have an early female prime minister. Thats true. Rose so tell me about your feelings. When you were three you moved to the United States with your family. Yeah. Rose but were you born there. You experienced very early. Yes. Rose have you continued to go back . Have you stayed involved . Does israel flow through your own veins in a sense as something that is living and breathing and crucial to your own being . Yes, it does. I go back, ive gone back regularly my whole life. My dads side of the family continues to live there now. And and it has been a big part of my life and everything i think about and the way i see the world. And im not israeli. Im not totally american. You know, i feel american. And i obviously have citizenship and have lived most of my life here but of course i have this sort of outsider status because i am also born out of the country and immigrated here. So it is definitely a major influence on me. Rose but you have related to her story and related to so many of the stories that he tells. Yes, absolutely. Because i think that that whole mythology of where we came from, is very, its wildly similar when you hear the kinds of stories that are told and repeated because its i dont know, maybe its a family thing in general. But you hear the same stories over and over again and they create your identity. Rose you know the stories. You also say and have been vocal about the politics of israel. Do you worry about its survival . I think were certainly at a critical point where, yeah, uhhuh, things need to, decisions need to be made to create a Better Future for everyone living there. Rose some people think theres a possibility of a twostate solution is shrinking daily. It certainly is difficult. And its understandable too. I mean how many times, how many years can people be hurt. And im talking about people on both sides and still have intentions intentions to try and reconcile. We see it so often on an individual basis. If you think of collective, you know, emotions and in an individual way, its understandable that there is not a whole lot of desire to reconcile after that long of being hurt. But it also is kind of the only way forward bhaws no one wants to live this way, no one wants their children to live that way. Rose and how you think its going to end. You have no sense. When does fatigue set in, after all these years so that people say as they did in ireland. Right. Rose we cant continue this. Right, exactly. Yeah. Rose and everybody tries. Every single new president of the United States tries to do what he can or perhaps she can. Yeah. Rose to do something about me kritdics call this a love letter to israel. Do you see it that way . No, its really funny that it came out that way. Because its very much that its not that it came out that way but that it is perceived that way. Because it is very much to me a family story, an individual story. And then there is this back drop which is the state. And in fact, if anything, you know, i find myself critical citizen, the same way i am in the United States. I think a good citizen is a critical citizen. And so i mean, it, when it was perceived that way, it was surprising to me. But its not meant really as a political statement. Its meant as a family story with the historical back drop. Rose did you seek out advice on directing . A bit. Mostly in the editing process, i really went to director friends and asked for opinions which was very helpful because that was really my first time in that process. And then otherwise just you know its been over 20 years now that ive been acting an been lucky enough to work with a lot of wonderful director. Rose did you always know you were going to direct. Early on did you feel that . No, i dont know that i knew very early but for the past 15 years, i mean like since i think since i turned 120 i was i was thinking that i wanted to direct. And especially you know we all bemoan the lack of female directors and you cant complain about it and then just not do t you know. Youre like where re they. And luckily you know if you have the opportunity to do it, and the desire and the vision. Rose i can imagine being on set, someone who at age 20 or 25 thought that they might want to direct if the right thing came along, they would want to do it for lots of reasons. Then if you are there with somebody who is really an acknowledged master, you want to be watching. You want to be asking some questions even if you are simply an actor on the film. I mean specifically about this project, i wasnt saying what should i do that day but yes, absolutely. Every time im on the set i ask i talk to dpst a lot. The cinematographers to understand why they are choosing the camera they choose, the lensz they choose, if it is film, what kind of film and why and understanding, you know, learning how directors choose their color palates and make music decisions, all of those were really helpful because thats what you dont get involved in much as an actress. Rose what was the most challenging part of that. Music was very, very challenging. Rose to create mood, to create. Because i have very very specific about music. And i had music that i had in my mind that i would play all the time when i was writing, while i was directing, that really created the mood. But then when you put it on the image and the motion is the same t doubles up and its too much. So actually the music that works is, its counterintuitive. Its like not what you think was the emotion. So that was really surprising and challengek. Rose why did you fill testimony. We filmed almost entirely in t in the desert outside, andttle also in the north to get is some of the more dream sequences. Rose most israeli actors. All israeli actors except for me who i i am part, yes. And also a few palestinian or arabisraeli nationals rdz when will it open in israel . It opened in israel last summer actually. Rose so you waited. It opened there first. And was very nicely received which was great. Rose how did they see it . Did they see it as a story of the modern staift israel . Yes, and i also think. Rose of their favorite novelist. A national treasure. Rose clearly a national treasure. Yeah. I think both for sure. I mean it was really interesting how moved people were, there was a scene when the u. N. Vote to approve the creation of the state of israeli happened, when we were shooting it, i mean everyone was just like, because its a story. Its sort of, you know, i think the equivalent of not the equivalent but you know how people say they remembered where they were and jfk. The man in the moon and people, the story that people tell, like thats the story that everyone heard. On the radio of the u. N. Vote. That is what we heard from our grandparents and parents so to be there, and to sort of recreate that, everyone was very, very emotional while we were shooting it. Rose and have you had the opportunity to talk to people who were participated in that . I mean theyre obviously dying away now. Im left with the most amazing person to describe it to us. Because he was a child then of course but he said that there was just this scream, this collective scream that just sounded like the voices of everyone who had ever died. And everyone who was living, just screaming out because it was obviously this incredible tragic joy of having lost everything that now finally having their own place and that his father said to him, which is in the film, you know, now that we have a jewish state you will never be bullied again for being jewish which of course is like a tragic thing to think now that that was, you know. Rose you wonder what ises real would be a different place today if it hadnt had to constantly live with the strug theal it lives and at the same time for better or worse. Right. Rose in a sense, some of the political fights that have taken place there if in fact and you wonder about the palestinians, if they had a homeland and they had a place. Of course. Rose and if they had been able to coexist basically together and have both how both might have created something really wonderful. Yeah. Rose you know. And it started in 48 when they could have accepted the u. N. Mandate at the time. Yeah, well, its certainly a tragedy for both people. But hopefully not over. Its hopefully something possible to change. Rose what is the we charity . We day is a group that tries to get both children in the developing world and developed world into a new place. So in the developing world, they build schools that have wells and latwrittenes and health care and latrines an health care and Small Business loans for the mothers of the children who go there, all in one, all in one village so that they create this really Sustainable School model. And in the developed world, they get young kids to raise money for these schools. And then they go help build them. And then they also support just kids feeling empowered that they can do something to change the world. So its a really wonderful kind of group that had been lucky enough to be a small participate in that really gets kids helping other kids. How do you think making this film has changed you . It was really interesting when i first started that i wasnt used to expressing my opinion in a clear way. Im expressing what i wanted. And jill soloway who was the creator of transparent and among other things, she is a a woman i really admire had the speech last year about how she thinks that part of the reason theres not so many female director is that she said that directing is very much about desire, and that we arent comfortable with female desire. And you have to say i want that, i want that, i want that. And it was hard for me at the beginning when they would say what color should we make this wall in the house. Or you know, what do you think the length of this, or what kind of filter do you want to put on the lens. I would say you know, im not sure, tell me if this is stupid but. Rose you dont do that any more. No, when are you the leader, they want you to say, i want this. I want that. I like that, thats not good, thats not right, you know, and you have to be clear and direct. I knew what i wanted, i just didnt know how to express it. I mean within a week, i was very comfortable. But it was interesting to see that, you know, at 31 when i directed it, i still hadnt developed that in myself and this definitely helped me and developed that, just clarity and comfort with saying what i want. Rose what does your family think . My family has been really wonderful about it. And supportive of it. And you know, it is obviously meaningful to them too because it is a piece of our story too. Rose thank you for coming. Much success. Thank you so much for having me in. Rose it opens, a tale much love and darkness opens on friday august 19th. Friday august 19th. A tale of love and darkness. Thank you for joining us. See you next time. For more about this program and earlier episodes visit us online at pbs. Org and charlie rose. Com. Captioning sponsored by Rose Communications captioned by Media Access Group at wgbh access. Wgbh. Org rose funding for charlie rose has been provided by and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and Information Services worldwide. This is nightly business. Report with Tyler Mathisen and su. Slow motion rally. The three major stock indexes kicked the week off with a record close. And this modest meltup comes during the calmest market in 75 years. Apartment mega merger. Why todays 4 billion deal could be a sign that landlords are worried the rental market is taking off. After a summer of long lines and delays, air travelers may finally have something to smile about this fall. Those stories and more tonight on nightly Business Report for monday, au good evening, and welcome. Call it a hat trick, a trifecta, a triple, call it whatever you want. But whatever you do call