Transcripts For KQED Charlie Rose 20160725

West. After 15 years of wars in the middle east, after trillians of dollars spent and thousand of lives lost the situation is worse than it has ever been before. This is the legacy of Hillary Clinton. Death, destruction, terrorism and weakness. [ cheering and applause ] but Hillary Clintons legacy does not have to be americas legacy. The problems we face now, poverty and violence at home. War and destruction abroad will last only as long as we continue relying on the same politicians who created them in the first police. A change in leadership is required to produce a change in outcome. Rose we continue with the introduction of donald trump by daughter, ivanka. One year ago i introduced my father when he declared his canned casei. In his own way and through his own sheer force of will he sacrificed greatly to enter the political arena as an outsider. And he prevailed against the field of 1416 very talented competitors. [ applause ] for more than a year donald trump has been the peoples champion. And tonight he is the peoples nominee. Like many of my fellow mil yenial i do not consider myself categorically republican or democrat, more than Party Affiliation i vote based on what i believe is right for my family and for my country. Sometimes its a tough choice. That is not the case this time. I am the proud daughter of your nominee, i am here to tell you that this is the moment and donald trump is the person to make America Great again. Real change, the kind we have not seen in decades only going to come from outside the system. And its only going to come from a man who has spent his entire life doing what others said could not be done. My father is a fighter. When the primaries got tough, they were tough, did he what any great leader does, he dug deeper, worked harder, got better and became stronger. [ cheering and applause ] i have seen him fight for his family. I have seen him fight for his employees. I have seen him fight for his company. And now i am seeing him fight for our country. Its been the story of his life and more recently the spirit of his campaign. Rose for analysis, john can karl of abc news. They were ex complicit that they were emulating here not Ronald Reagan and city on a hill but rich and nixon, 1968, the law and ford, speech on law and order talking about the forgotten americans. This was a direct echo of Richard Nixon. Rose our biggest story was departure of roger ailes from knocks news his biographer, gabe sherman talks about the circumstances. I think we should look back several days ago at the height of the negotiation, the New York Post, the tabloid newspaper that Rupert Murdoch uses, is that in situations like this when he wants to send a message, he put roger ailes face on the cover of the paper and reported extensively on the Sexual Harassment allegations. That was a message from the murdoch to roger ailes,. Rose a look back at some of the conversations we had in cleveland. He loathes this entire process. He didnt want any politicians on the stage. It would be businessmen, people in the services, people who have gone through rose and his family. His family. He has disdain for this entire process, the process that is supposed to encapsulate everything our electoral system. For being conservative, make America Great. Hes treating it like something he has to get through. Rose the Republican Convention and fox news when we continue. Rose funding for charlie rose has been provided by the following and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and Information Services worldwide. Captioning sponsored by Rose Communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. Rose we begin with politics and the Republican National convention in cleveland. On its final night. Donald trump officially accepted the partys nomination for the presidency, the speech closed the fourday convention which had been marked by moments of surprise, controversy and some party disunity. Trumps address adhered closely to his Core Campaign message, appealing directly to average americans who feel they have been left behind in the 21st century. Every day i wake up determined to deliver for the people i have met all across this nation that have been neglected, ignored, and abandoned. I have visited the laidoff factory workers, and the communities crushed by our horrible and unfair trade deals. These are the forgotten men and women of our country. And they are forgot open but not going to be forgotten long. These are people who work hard but no longer have a voice. I am your voice. Rose he painted a dark portrait of diminished america plagued by violence, rising crime and terrorism. He pledged repeatedly under his presidency law and order would be restored. He placed blame for americas Current Crisis on his opponent, Hillary Clinton. America is far less safe and the world is far less stable than when obama made the decision to put Hillary Clinton in charge of americas Foreign Policy. Lets defeat her in november. Rose Hillary Clinton was expected to announce her running mate later this afternoon after the taping of this interview. The democratic National Convention will begin monday in philadelphia. Joining me is Jonathan Karl chief White House Correspondent who was in cleveland im pleased to have him at the table. Welcome. Great to be here. Rose some week. Unbelievable. We set a new record, longest acceptance speech of the modern era. Rose ive said this before he had choice to drill down or reach out, he chose to drill down. He sure did. It was they were explicit that they were emulating here not Ronald Reagan and city on a hill. But Richard Nixon 1968. Law and order, this was speech unplanned order talking about the forgotten americans. This was a direct echo of Richard Nixon. Rose what was amazing to me, in terms of one of the biggest applause lines was i am your voice. Yeah. Unbelievable. In the focus groups, they were looking did not rate well with that crowd. But not with those outside. Rose what else rated well . How was the speech being analyzed outside . From people watching on television . One of the key moments was when you heard those chants lock her up trump waited and said, lets defeat her. Took some of the energy out of the room. That is the message that is going to appeal to your hard core. But lock her up is not an appeal to independent voters. Rose there is a movement. Trump has been able to go to the head of that movement. Always saying hes a messenger. Its like this campaign was coming together, a movement that was already there. Then already highly celebrity star and wellknown. If you look at the context, he wraps up the nomination in late may look what happens next. This is the context which they wrote this speech which is, been called by most a very dark speech. Not optimistic speech. But look whats happened. Youve had terrorist attacks in istanbul and nice. You had the horror in orlando. Police shootings in dallas and baton rouge. Shootings by police in minneapolis and baton rouge. In their view this is a dark time. You have a time where in our latest abc news poll over 70 of the country is saying, were on the wrong track. Thats what hes channeling into. Rose and thats not a democratic or republican thing either. Hes basically saying, something is wrong, not only with our politics, but with our establishment. Something is wrong. Thats why, even the fight with ted cruz which was such a colossal distraction. Make no mistake it infuriated him. He played it off, he had that great entrance in the babble of the hall as cruz was getting booed off you can see the anger here now. Day staff tore the convention, he decides to hold a press conference to go after trz. When have we seen this. Would be like, you know, jimmy carter going to launch a new fight with ted kennedy after he beat him. He defended his what he said about ted cruzs father. The campaign, tying into the kennedy assassination, the National Enquirer which had that story as publication that deserves pulitzers and he said, if ted cruz were to destroyed to endorse him he would not accept it. Rose mentioned these kind of accusations came out of the campaign. Yes. Rose this is the reason that ted cruz has stead he lied about me, he lied about my family. Lied about my wife and there for i could never endorse him. Right. These were crazy accusations. Rose so, where did the campaign go from here . Well, ive spoken with people close to mike pence who are visibly beside themselves. There is no plan. Theres no plan. Theres no apparent plan. This is such a fascinating campaign, because it is so unlike any other National Campaign that we have seen. Rose it was one man in quest of his own drive. Can we talk about one moment that blew me away at the very culmination of this entire convention. He plays cant always get what you want as mike pence comes out for that big right before the balloon drop. That was their dont stop believing moment. You cant always get what you wanted which may be the theme rose his attitude about life. Not at all. May be the theme song of this entire campaign. But it is strange. I dont know how all this will affect the timing of Hillary Clintons Vice President ial anointment. It starts monday. But they would like to see some of this sink in. Rose they want to let this kind of if somebody sells making a mistake dont jump in. Let them but ive got to say, i think that most of the kind of commentary on this convention, on his speech, was about how neg sieve and dark it was, how it failed to offer any kind of an uplifting hopeful vision. A reaganesque, city on the hill. But he has tapped into something here. Rose none of us know how big it is. We know it transcends parties, some of the elements ever ite know we saw some of the similar kinds of grievances wh when, on the brexit vote surprised everybody. Rose surprised everybody. Smart people in britain. Rose not just within the Republican Party. He hopes that he can use that to appeal to much wider constituent see. He believes that they can reach out to latinos and others even though they are part of the expected constituent see of the democratic party. Hes had done things about immigration to offend them. He hopes he can make economic argument. That exchange their life. I think that one of the fascinatings things makes that argument he has left behind. We have seen dominate republican politics. For so long, certainly Republican Convention. The cultural wars as weve known them are gone. This was the candidate who won the evangelical vote against all odds, all predictions. Rose he said last night i might not have deserved it. But he wanted to thank them. He said it made all the difference, he wouldnt be there addressing this convention as nominee without their support. He thanked them. The issues that animated that movement were completely ab frequent his speech and largely absent from that convention. Is. And i look at the timing here. This is as north carolina, the nba making not to have the allstar game because of the transgender bathroom issue. That issue is gone. All the anger about gay marriage. No mention of that. Planned parenthood. Animating the republican primary never for donald trump but for all the others. Rose the idea of republican unity . Ted cruz is one thing that had to do with ambitions for the presidency in four years. Ted cruz made a gamble here. The calculation is, that donald trump will go down in blames. That this will be a horrific defeat for republicans. Rose you look back if he does do bad if the campaign becomes nasty and negative then loses, you can look back say, look, i couldnt support him for all the reasons youre seeing now. That is the calculation that lot of republicans have made. Mitt romney rose the bush family. John kasich decided not to step foot. So what cruz is banking on being able to say, others stayed away. I went in and i got booed at that convention. I tried to stand up, i tried to rose i told you to vote your conscience. Exactly. But, you know, i got to say, its a huge gamble and early indications are, we dont know how it will play out. It felt very flat. There was real anger at ted cruz among those who dont like donald trump. I had one Top Republican tell me after cruzs speech, i wasnt for trump but now i am. Because its ted cruz, it was seen as classless, about ted cruz, not about rose was simply not to show up. Which is what john kasich did and bush family. Thats the view of a lot of people that actually agree with him about trump cross does donald trump need the Republican Party . Well, that rose they have structure, they have organization, in 50 states, he has none of. That his argument ive never had any of that. And i dont need it now. Yeah. You know what, even if he has the Republican Party fully in all of its structure and all of infrastructure behind him hes not going to have anywhere near from the democrats and Hillary Clinton have. Whether its on advertising, spending, ground troops, never go fog have that. If hes going to win not going to be because of that. Rose how does he in . What is the pathway . Frank said to us on cbs this morning he expects him to be even if not a little bit ahead in terms of the impact of what happened in cleveland. He then said i expect that Hillary Clinton will come back be even or maybe a little bit ahead after her convention. Being even or a little bit ahead historic she not enough. One came out ahead 17 points. Rose a terrible campaign. Yes. Rose also the Bush Campaign attack on him. Bush 41 campaign. Absolutely. Their approach to that explicitly to that, silent majority. There are wide swaths in the middle class that are that have been left behind and his appeal on the system is rigged. Weve had terrible trade deals. These are not traditional republican messages. Rose interesting thing, his daughter, ivanka introduced him in really interesting speech. She talked about reaching out to women. Talked about pay equity. Lot of issues that people thought were traditional quality child care. All the things it was rose all the issues you would expect from the democrats. Nothing that she said rose talk about it today because of the nature of his speech. It was a remarkable speech. I think that every line in that speech was not about her father, could have been said at the Democratic Convention would have been cheered. Rose there is also the sense that the family did really well. I think thats absolutely true. Rose came across as a remarkable family. And the father obviously and mother as well, have to take some credit. Absolutely. Don juniors speech, as the first one from the family. That speech was interesting because there was a little bit about his father in law. That was a very political speech. That was a speech that i thought could have been given by paul ryan, except perhaps rose keynote speech. Could have been. It echoed, there was a little jack kemp and ronald praying an in there. Eric trump, gave another very strong speech. Did humanize his father. Rose and people in that hall loved the speech. There was no reason not to like it if you were not a republican. Or not a trump supporter then had the controversy over lifting from what an episode that was. You see Paul Manafort come out say it was crazy to say that those passages were lifted from michelle obama, have that out there. Then two days later, yes, it was. Rose they simply said at the beginning what they said at the end would never have been an issue. We made a mistake, were sorry. Would have been benefit. Like refreshing honesty. Rose there was the notion, too, about donald trump looking more President Shall. And some looking at what he said last night, look, hes not going to change. He didnt change last night when he had. Why shoe we expect him to change during this Campaign Even though Paul Manafort and others say they want to see him change, because they believe its important to the overall success of their senate and house candidates. He did change to a degree. The overall rose how did he snake. Did you hear lying hillary in that speech . Did you here rose crooked hillary. There november name calling. There was no mention of mexico paying for the wall. Rose he talks about building the wall. Did he. But he didnt talk about, and mexico will pay for it which is a something that gets got lots of applause in his rallies but gets ridiculed. Rose what about Foreign Policy . If you noticed, one part that have speech that was updated and added later was the whole give on anyway foe. That was another thing. Everything about this campaign so unlike campaigns weve covered. Idea to give 45 minute interview with the New York Times in the middle of the convention, launch this new, you know, wrinkle on nato. Rose which was two part. One they got to pay their fair share what president obama said. And some do that. Then, saying that, if in fact theres an attack on Baltic States from russia, have to look at their contribution. Right. Rose Foreign Policy. The fundamental aspect from definition of alliance. What stories are out there in terms of who is emerging as in knew enshall with trump other than family. Paul man north will run the campaign. Who has his ear . Its amazing that even at this point that that Campaign Infrastructure has not significantly grown. You saw at the end of the primaries, there were 73 paid staffers compared to several hundred for Hillary Clinton. Hes broadened it a bit. On Foreign Policy, clearly saw general mike flynn is his key advisor. National security advisor. But i dont get the sense that he has significantly widened his circle of advisors. Newt gingrich something that he listens to and tox to thats the way its been. But i dont know, manaforts running that campaign. Rose seems to mow the most unhappy man at that convention, seems to me, was governor chris christie. Hes heading the transition team. But he clearly wanted to be Vice President. That remarkable interview he gave with Nicole Wallace right before the decisionfuls made, sounded like one of those interviews of the the apprentice talk to somebody about to get fired. You know, what it was like. Really remarkable. Christie gave a very fiery speech. A very aggressive speech. It was the speech that led to those chants lock her up about Hillary Clinton. But his speech was not in the prime time hour. It wasnt as prominent. Rose what does donald trump have to do to be elected. Win the debates. Absolutely. Have Three Chances there. Hes got to hes prosecuted the case. They did this at their convention. Prosecute the case against Hillary Clinton. Her negatives are high. They are historically high, any other candidate, republicans wed be talking about republicans being favored even with the map that they face. But hes got to erase doubts about himself. Hes got to be able this will be the most negative campaign that we have witnessed. Rose it does have to do with that he should not have doubts about whether hed be the most dangerous man in charge of national security. Doubts. Doubts about his temperament. His seriousness. Doubts about hes facing such negative numbers among women, hispanics, traditionally you would say, theres no way, unless it dramatically turns around. But this is an appeal to, again, silent majority. I think that was why they much explicitly rose i am your voice. The system is rigged. And you cant protect yourself but i can protect you. Whatever the problem is, i can fix it. And i am an your side. Its about you. Not me. I am with you. Not i am with her. I am with you. Rose Hillary Clinton campaign had element of are you with her he says, im with you. Im with you. But he which is smart. This is going to be a tough campaign and he goes into this as the absolute and clear front runner across the board for all those reasons the way that the map has changed for republicans. Rose she goes as clear front runner. The clear underdog in this campaign. Rose because of demographics and electoral structure. Yeah. If you look at what he has to win to get to 270 electoral votes, hes got to win ohio. Hes got to win virginia. Hes got to win florida. Or find way to find states that republicans havent carried in a generation. Pennsylvania, michigan. Paul manafort was saying connecticut, oregon. Rose thats the question, hes so different that he can do things that other republicans havent been able to do. Is the country at this moment, in a place in which there is clear discontent and clear concerns about the economy. And clear concerns about the decline of the middle class. If that is larger than we understand. Are people that angry, do people see the country in that dark of way. When nixon came, all that was going on in the country in terms much race riots, assassinations of kennedy. You had the vast antiwar protests, he spoke about the nonshouters, the nonprotesters. Those are the people im speaking to. Is that the country we are today . Is that what we are today . Rose how large are those clear part of what we are today. Clear people believe that. Question is how many are they. Because you would assume the way hes articulated the force that he did, he was at one speed during that entire speech. It was in fast forward through the entire speech. Almost shouting. Rarely did he become softer and reflect. People think that may have been a missed opportunity. To reflect more on who he was. You are 70 minutes in the speech before he talks about his family, his father, his mother, his siblings. Rose with three minutes to go. Thank you, john. Jonathan karl, abc news. Back in a moment. Stay with us. Rose roger ailes resigned yesterday. His resignation comes as former fox news anchor Gretchen Carlson filed a Sexual Harassment lawsuit against him. More than dozen women have come forward with allegations, following carlsons lawsuit and investigation by private law firm. Rupert murdoch assumed the role of chairman hand acting ceo of the cable networks. Joining me, gabriel sherman, the National Affairs editor at new York Magazine. Offer of the loudest voice in the room. How the brilliant, bombastic roger ailes divide add country and he has been a lead reporter on this story from the beginning. Gabe, where are we now . You just told me that you are in cleveland, youve been writing all night what is the lateness. The late zest that fox news really trying to figure out what it will be in the post ailes era. Less than 24 hours into that era. We should look back and know that roger ailes created fox news in his image. He ruled the network with an iron first. He shaped every facet of the network, talent that hes seen to the message that you hear coming out of the okay ors mouths. Now without him in the picture a sense of chaos and disgrey. I talked to an anchor really they sensed that theres no unified direction. Theyre all waiting to see what comes next. Who ultimately the Murdoch Family decides to install as the replacement for ailes. Right now Rupert Murdoch is in interim role. Everybody knows that is a stopgap. Rose likely candidate from inside fox news . Well, there are two internal candidates. Bill shein who is roger ailes deputy, we be seen as continuation of the right wing conservative style of programming that ailes pioneered f. They wanted to go in more of news direction, there are two news candidates, john moody a former Time Magazine journalist who was with ailes from the beginning, had very sort of straight news instincts. The same with Michael Clement a former nbc fusion cluetive. They are both in at fox now, thought is that they could slide into that role. Burt also looking in the wider murdoch empire to bring in a possible replacement, Jessie Angelo who runs the New York Post very close with the murdoch folly was James Murdochs College Roommate at harvard. Seen as someone that can slide in there. Another long shot candidate that is creating speculation inside the company rebecca brooks who is very close to rub earth murdoch very fond trying to rehabilitate her after the phone hacking scandal in the u. K. She was seen, touring the fox news offices several months ago that he was showing her the ropes as replacement for ailes. That is really the state of play. Also looking at some external candidates in the wider tv industry. Rose there are some reports that some of the anchors at fox have in their contract that roger ailes is not running they have an option to lead. Is that correct . That is correct. That they do have out clauses in their contract. But what is not correct, i have reported this as well this week is the narrative that roger ailes in his surrogate push that if he was pushed out of the network that it would lead to mass exodus that was as my sources inside the negotiation told me, really ha negotiating tactic that ailes cam was putting out to put pressure on murdoch because the stock price of 21st century fox is really dependent on the success of fox news, it is single most profitable division in Rupert Murdochs television and entertainment conglomerate. If i leave pie take this whole thing down with but that was really a lot of posturing. I spoke to people at the network who said none of the march key anchors, shawn hannity, bill oreilly all the people in the headlines they were not plotting organizing some mass exodus. What can you tell us about the nature of the relationship that took place during the negotiations. The law firm was doing the investigating not under the control of fox but hired by fox. Is it amicable d. Roger ailes understand that circumstance that he was in and simply was trying to under his contract and more negotiate the best deal or was this much more hostile . It was much more hostile. I think we need to step back for a second and really remind everyone and our elves who roger ailes is. He has never backed down for a fight. This is a really Unprecedented Development and remarkable 76year career. He is one of the most ruthless, tough, brilliant, fashion naturing figures who have dominated the american political and media stage. And so, he went into this fight expecting to play his traditional play book, go on the counterattack in the wake of Gretchen Carlsons lawsuit he roll lead fox anchors to a side, they spoke tout to the press, denouncing these allegations. Really that was one of his critical errors. Because what it sends a signal to murdoch that was he was trying to use the assets of fox against the interests of the corporate parent. This outside law firm was finding enough damaging allegations in their own internal investigation that murdoch sent a signal to ailes if you want to play by your play book we will destroy you. We should look look several days ago at the height of the negotiations, the New York Post, the tabloid number that Rupert Murdoch uses, in situations like this where he wants to send a message he put roger ailes face on the cover of the paper and reported extensively on the Sexual Harassment allegations. That was a message to roger ailes that if you really want to make this ugly we will go all the way f. That moment on, ailes lawyers came back to the table, they negotiated what i hear is excess of 40 million severance package that will pay him out through existing contract. Remain as an advisor to ruin university murr dock and ended am callly. There was period of days that it could have gotten ugly. Rose there was a rumor in cleveland without any confirmation at all. That roger ailes may becoming some way tan advisor to the Trump Campaign . Yeah, that is there is a lot of speculation. Hive covered the Trump Campaign for new York Magazine im well sourced in both of these worlds. I think the rumor is grounded in fact. Sheer what we know. Donald trump and roger ailes are long time friends. They speak regularly. I reported i broke this story that donald trump was advising roger ailes in the wake of Gretchen Carlsons lawsuit giving him strategic advice on how to navigate the scandal. Roger ailes has called and offered donald trump political advice during this campaign. So, we know that relationship exists. What we dont know, i want to do more reporting on this, is whether donald trump would formally take roger ailes on as a media strategy. Donald trumps numbers with women sun favorable with women are totally upside down. So you have to imagine the optics of donald trump bringing on as his chief media strategist a man who has just come out of a highly public and highly damaging Sexual Harassment scandal. Now, thats not to say that roger ailes will not be on the phone to donald trump advising him personally and privately. I got a message from somebody this morning who said that they heard many echoes of roger ailes and trump speech last night. So i think that two things can sort of be true that roger ailes would not become a formal advisor but thats not to say that he will not play a role in the Trump Campaign. Rose that is a role that hes played before both for Richard Nixon and george bush 42. Yes. Throughout since the 1968 president ial election when he signed on as nixons chief media stand television advisor, ridger ailes has been a counselor and message advisor to scores of republicans and, yes, as you point out, he helped elect two president s, advised Ronald Reagan in 1984, so he is and has been the single most successful republican media operative of the last 50 years. So, it would make sense that donald trump facing this showdown with Hillary Clinton in november would want to tap roger ailes expertise. Rose what do we know about the evidence that came out from the law firms investigations and how can you confirm that . Well, i myself, charlie, interviewed women who have spoken to paul white, the Corporate Law firm hired by 21st century fox to do the inquiry. Also interviewed a dozen women who have had experiences with ailes that they alleged he sexually harassed them through the years, including during the years at fox news. So, i can just tell you as a reporter, ive written a biography of roger ailes, we should back up, when this story broke in early july when gretchen filed the suit i was not surprised, because in my biography i detailed multiple in tans of alleged Sexual Harassment by ailes, women spoke on the record with their full names attached describing in detame the incidences. This was not news in the sense that i reported that before. Now what was news was that high profile fox news anchor would make these allegations public. The incidences that i detail go back to the 1980s and earlier. So that was what was new. But its not surprise me, ive interviewed these women at length i find their stories to be highly credible, the lawyers clearly of paul white, my sources close to the investigation say, they find that the allegations are highly credible. There was we dont know what document fare evidence they have but it was tear just enough that they went to the murr docks said, this guy, roger aims, has to be moved out of this position. Rose most of those allegations recent or most as you suggested back in the 80s and early 90s . Well, its a mix. We are getting many recent allegations of Sexual Harassment by ailes hat fox news in to the 2000s. The lawyers nona, one of the things that again, i broke this story, i think this really drove it. I was shocked myself to learn this. That megyn kelly, obvious ly tangled with donald trump this election cycle, you did a lengthy interview with her that also got a lot of press. Shes been one of the break out media stars of this election cycle. During the paul white the investigators said that,nt mid 200s when she was a young correspondent in the fox News Washington bureau, roger ailes made multiple unwand sexual advances towards her. And she wall lead, she has been calling former fox news colleagues and female employees, encouraging them to speak to the paul white lawyers. So, this, i think, pretty explosive. 24 is a case where the Murdoch Family has to have a make a choice. Because megyn kelly is the future in some way of fox news. She is a break out star, shes younger she reaches a younger demographic. And if she came out and said, this happened to me and i know it happened to other women, that coollized the scandal forced them to ailes lets get this done. Rose its interesting in two things. What she said but also the fact you are saying that you confirm that she initiated the approach to paul whites law firm. Yes. And sources i know close to the investigation say that it was incredibly brave thing to d. But we should point out that meagan kelly is a former Corporate Lawyer, worked at jones day, very tough and savvy woman she knows how these investigations work. As a lawyer herself she felt it was her obligation to make sure that all of the evidence was on the record. Rose is what these people did in terms of talking to the lawyers, are these depositions, legal depositions . Im not a lawyer myself so i dont know the technical sort of how they would be foreally classified. They were interviewed, some in person, some on telephone, fascinating that i learned in my reporting. In the early stage of the investigation, the lawyers at paul white were doing the interviews at the fox news offices at 12116th avenue in midtown. But what they were finding that the subjects were not forthcoming in the interviews were not producing any usable evidence. They moved the interviews out of the fox news office into the paul white offices in manhattan because they felt that the feeling inside fox news, the lawyers felt that ailes might have bugged the program. Employees felt that ailes may be even listening in on these interviews they had a Chilling Effect on the types of evidence that they were hearing. So, once interviews moved out of fox news to paul white the material started to come forward. Megyn came forward thats where they had body of todays take to the murdoch forced them say, we need to get this deal done. Rose lets talk about the people that are involved at the Corporate Structure at 121st century. Clearly, the sons of ruin row earth murdoch are playing increasingly important powerful and significant role. What role did they play in this . Charlie, this story from the beginning, from the moment it broke it has all the elements of a television show. It is about power. Were in the middle of a President Shall election. A family dynasty. Rub earth murdoch, 85 years old handing the reins to his two Adult Children we have in the middle we also have sex. Its a combustible mix of factors that all exploded this week mere in cleveland. As you point out the two murdoch sons, james who moved into coleadership positions at the conglomerate have had complicated and strained relationship with roger ailes through the years. James in particular, as ive reported, has been driving this from the beginning. From the moment he heard these allegations he went to rub earth murdoch said to his father say we need to take this seriously. Remember, james himself was casualty of the phone hacking scandal in the u. K. He understands what can happen when corporate scandal metastasized into something that can destroy the entire company and reputation. This investigation that was spurred by james effort to get in front try to stop the bleeding sort much isolate it to roger ailes before it engulfed him. you say the Corporate Structure. Rose let me close, because you wrote the book that i mentioned in my introduction, give us a sense of how good and how powerful and how brilliant and how tough roger ailes was in building this network. Well, shy just point out, charlie, when i set out to write the book it wasnt going fob a biography of roger ailes but a history of fox news. But what i learned in the course of my reporting and research for the book theres some quote that jump youd in one interradio roger ailes had told interviewer, i built this network for my life experience. And so that key quote, what was that life experience. Who is roger ailes . Who is the man that created this phenomenon that revolutionized american politics in media in the plate 20th century. So that man had his life story traces the arc of the fusion of television and politics and entertainment. The fact that donald trump is the republican nominee and possibly the next president of the United States, is a testament to roger ailes pow rs of roger ailes using the tactics and mechanics of television to communicate conservative political messages. Did he it for Richard Nixon in 1968. He did it throughout the 1970s for republican congressmen and governors and did it in the 1980s getting george h. W. Bushy collected from the moment he founded fox news he used that to remake the Republican Party in his image. Roger ailes is from warren, ohio, a blue collar republican, his father was foreman at packard auto parts factory. A voter that donald trump is speaking to, hes protectionist. Hes wary of immigrants. Hes socially conservative but also brash and very populous. That style of politics from the very beginning is what fox news engineered. It has basically remade the Republican Party, Donald Trumps hostile take over of the Republican Party was facilitated because the media message that roger ailes is programming into millions of households every day. I think that will be part of roger ailes legacy that he has remade american politics in his image. When we look back if you want to understand american politics over the last 4050 years, i think he will be one of the central protagonists in that story. Rose he and Rupert Murdoch as far as i can see. Yes, i think what is interesting is Rupert Murdoch is a brilliant businessman and hes a newspaper man. But he fundamentally by his own admission did not understand the television industry. He needed a Creative Genius like roger ailes to translate his desire for National Influence into the medium of television and roger ailes delivered on that beyond rupert murr docks wildest imagination. Rose thed loudest voight in the book. Reports for new York Magazine. One question about the convention, you were there, i was there. But as you watched donald trump last night, whats your sense of how well that came in terms of what his objectives were for thursday nights speech . Well, you know, it was not a unifying speech. I think the objective is, theres ive been writing this really since super tuesday. Theres going to be no pivot. This idea that were going to see a new donald trump is just not happening. And hes decided that his strategy, and his advisors have said, theyre running a 1968 law and order silent majority campaign. Again, back to ailes. Very much of replay of 68. Hes going to try to galvanize and mobilize his core of disaffected voters who see the violence and the protests and are turned off by that. See the disaffection from the coastal elite. And hes banking on he can mobilize those. Now, i think that is a very risky strategy just demographics of america are going against that. But that say think last nights certified that. It was a very scary and dark speech. There was no effort to sort of modulate that message. I dont see not going to do that on the night when you have the nations attention at your coronation, i cant see him doing it in after labor day. Rose in the sense he drilled down rather than reached out. Exactly. I think that is going to bement play book from here until november. Next week in philadelphia were going to see what hillary what hillarys idea if she goes with the safe choice for Vice President ial nominee going to go for the middle reach out to the voters even if theyre republicans who say, this message that donald trump is selling is just not for us. Rose gabe sherman, thank you for joining us from cleveland. Thank you. Rose they draw parallels of what the vote was. Even though they were not candidates representing that remain. I think that tenor is very similar. The result may or may not be similar. A lot of people, i think, walked in to the ballot booth in the u. K. Voted for brexit thinking they were making a statement not making a decision. So, then they looked up the next morning they said, oh, really . We do have to leave now . Rose i thought you were going to offset my vote you wouldnt have to do this. Well, well see whether in november people who like the idea that donald trump is shaking up the system can actually walk in to the ballot booth. Donald trump thought about this . No way. You can see from this week. He loathes this entire process. He didnt want to have any politicians on his stage, were it up to him, businessmen, people in the services, it would be people who have gone through and his family. He has disdain for this entire process, process that is supposed to encapsulate everything our electoral system. The shining moment on the hill for being conservative. Make America Great hes just treating it like its just something he has to get through. Rose he is an unnatural leader of what was a significant ground swell in the body politic of america. I dont know if i would call him a leader. He benefited from what were creating. Not wanting to take any more for 30 years. Starting to wake up realize how much power we have. More power than we ever had beginning of humanity. Social media, other technologies are allow us to find other people who are angry as we are over the same thing. Mobilize each other. Make things happen. Rose thats what happened in britain. Three months ago when we went to see mr. Trump, he was discussing how the United States would pull back from nato from, japan from, korea, if they didnt pay larger burden of keeping troops there. Yesterday he went a step beyond. When i asked him, so, imagine for a moment that the russians went into one of the baltic republics. Rose not unimagable circumstance. I just came back from the balance particulars, i was in atoney they think about it every day as we watch russian bomber runs, submarines off of finland. He said that he wouldnt automatically come to their defense. He would take a look and see whether or not what their contribution to nato and to us. So, he was putting economic test, whether they were spending enough ahead of the article five commitment that all members of nato sign up to when they have it, attack on one is an attack on all. I think there are a few questions that still need to be kind of teased out with where trump stands. Ones hes also talked about nato as an archaic, increasingly Obsolete Organization s. The issue that hes going to have this individual test with individual countries and ones that pay the fine or saying something broader. That we have an alliance with majority of the burdens on america. Most other countries dont care. I understand that this is a Reform Movement that is bigger than the Republican Party. Bigger than both parties. Voters are set up. Ive with involved with president ial politics. The ninth campaign ive been involved with starting with Richard Nixon. Through Ronald Reagan, with senator bob dole who i commend for being here. The guy is really a pray tree another and party regular. Notice the bushes are not here. The bushs, are about themselves they got very thats fine. But those people are discredited with the american people. They had their shot. They lost. Rose is the party united . You know what i think the party is united. Theres been a bunch of talk. Obviously last night in terms of ted cruz buttresses came out supported a lot. Whether he supports donald or doesnt i dont think is terribly relevant. I think you see, this is incredibly exciting week. Rose told the delegates to vote your conscience. Well, i dont really think that is all that relevant. I think that again, if you look at whats gone on this week its been incredibly exciting. Ive been here from monday on. And the energy thats been at this convention is extraordinary. If you look at what donald trump has done to the party and his contribution in bringing new people, its extraordinary. Hillary is the second most unpopular candidate to be nominated. Only why shes running up against the most unpopular person. What does it say about pollination we nominated two people the least popular. It says our system is broken. Our system, the way that tea party system is in place today, were nominating candidates that dont have a National Appeal in way thats broad enough to unified the country. Watch the course of the events, watch how appeal of both political parties, the system is broken and this is the result of it. Rose having looked at president ial campaigns and participated in them. Help us understand these two parties come out of their convention, there is that period between then and summer and then, labor day, then theres the debates. Give me sense of what happens within those periods . You try to come out of your convention with general election identity, more creative outreach and plan. Then you go try to define the other people so the choice of the election favors you. Then you try to survive the debate. Rose in terms of what obama did. Theres historical democratic play book where you spend money to define the republican in neg testify way. Hillary is doing that, shes got about 40 million bucks up front. Rose more about this program and early em of episodes visit us online and charlierose. Com. Captioning sponsored by Rose Communications captioned by Media Access Group at wgbh access. Wgbh. Org rose funding for charlie rose has been provided by the following and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and of multimedia news and Information Services worldwide. Man its like holy mother of comfort food. Ion. Kastner throw it down. Its noodle crack. Patel you have to be ready for the heart attack on a platter. Crowell okay, im the bacon guy. Man oh, i just did a jig every time i dipped into it. Man 2 it just completely blew my mind. Woman it felt like i had a mouthful of raw vegetables and dry dough. Sbrocco oh, please. I want the Dessert First [ laughs ] i told him he had to wait