Part by Andrew Ross Sorkin and brian koppelman. And they all join us to talk about it. If we are all fascinated by the way money works in this country, one of the questions we have is just why. Why cant somebody stop at 10 million. You know, we were sitting with a prosecutor once who had turned down a job for 3 million a year. And we asked this person, why they stayed in the job. And it was quiet. It was off the record. And they looked us in the eye and they said the power. Rose samuel l. Jackson and the actors and creators of billions, when we continue. Funding for charlie rose is provided by the following captioning sponsored by Rose Communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. Rose samuel l. Jackson is here. Is he the highest grossing acker of all time with over 10 billion in worldwide ticket sales. His newest film the Hateful Eight quks ask his sixth collaboration with writer, director quinten tarantino. He has said that jackson is quote one of the greatest actors to ever say my dialogue. Here is the trailer for the Hateful Eight. What makes a man brave a blizzard, kill in koldz blood . Im sure i dont know. You would be surprised what a man would do. Ha, ha, ha. Got room for one more . I aint to anxious to be handed out rides. Real trusting fella, huh . Not so much. Aint no way im spending a couple of nights under a roof with somebody i dont know who the hell. So who are ya . Okay, everybody. Hear this. Im taking this woman to hang. For 10,000. That money is mine, boys. Oh, thats interesting. Yeah. You going to make it with that fella or her. Thats my problem, boy, i dont know. One of them they will kill everybody in here. Now were talking. Lets slow it down. Lets slow it way down. You know where im coming. Tell them daisy sent you. Im coming, im coming. You going to die now. No one said this job is supposed to be easy. Nobody said its supposed to be that hard, neither. Rose you like it. Thats a wonderful trailer. Rose st, is it that fast paced. Totally. It looked like an interesting movie. Rose it did you know what is great about it, though. You start here, its really pure Quentin Tarantino dialogue. Yes, very much so. Rose its his hallmark. Yeah. Rose and you, and then seeing people that you havent seen in awhile like curt russell. Uhhuh. Rose the casting, everything about it. Yeah, and bruce bruce was great in nebraska. Rose playing the confederate and his son, come looking for his son. So perfect. From all the old western references we have, and everybody in that room had seen bruce dern in a movie playing probably the worst person in the movie. Because thats what he did. He made his stamp playing bad guys. So it was so great to have him there and have quentin talk about the films that he had done, between talks, quentin had talked to bruce about films that he had done or reference them, or recast this movie with people from bruces era in terms of who everybody would be in the fill. It was just awesome. Rose what is it about you and quentin . I have no idea. I just think that the fact that i did so much theater and i loved language and i spent a lot of my youth or childhood sitting on the porch with my grandfather at night listening to radio drama. So i learned how to use words or what the power of words or the rhythm or beauty or music in telling a story actually was, you know. And i love doing it. And my grandfather would tell me stories. And he would make me make up stories to tell him. So i learned to do that through listening to sergeant preson of the yu con or andy giveit tells stories or the shadow. Rose and the story about the Football Game at carolina, remember that story andy givette told, wonderful story what it was, was football. Yeah. Rose where did you grow up. Chattanooga, tennessee. Rose did you decide there, man, what i want to do is where terms of being a word smithn or doing that, you know. You were taught you want to grow up and have a reputable job, teacher, lawyer, doctor, preparer. So when i said i was going to be an acker, it kind of shocked everybody. My mom said so what are you going to do for a living. Until she saw my first commercial, then she said oh, you know my sons an acker. Rose but what was the big break . Big break, i guess, when i received when they created best supporting actor award at the cane Film Festival and i received a pom dor for jungle fever. The call from hollywood came up. Rose spike lee. Yeah. Rose that was a brilliant performance too. Thank you. I had done the research. Rose and so if it was the movies rather than theater after that. Well, that was the goal. Rose always movies. Yeah, i watched movies all my life. I spent all my life going to the movies every saturday. That is what i did. I sat in the Movie Theater all day long. Rose saying i want to be up there on that screen. I didnt know i wanted to be up there. I know i enjoyed the stories. I enjoyed going home, doing the movie that we had seen with my friends. And putting our guns on and playing, you know, john wayne or roy rogers whore whoever, or running from frankenstein or dracula or King Congress king kong or godzilla, or making bow and arrows and being robin hood. We did all of those things. Rose here is what quentin says, you are the only actor he will let play with his dialogue. You are the only guy that he will allow to even touch his stuff. Yeah. Rose so that why should i be surprised, you are saying. I dont know. I dont know that that is a surprise. I do know that when i read something hes written and i have thought about the character and ive analyzed it, i read the script endlessly. I read it over and over and over again. And by the time we start rehearsal, i have an idea of who physically the character is. Because i try and make that up. And talk to quentin about who i think he is physically so we have that conversation so that when. Rose like what does he wear, how he walks, everything. Yeah, what he wears, what his hair looks like, all those things that i like to make up for a character. I have that discussion with him. So that when im visualizing the character, when i start to read the script for the 25th time, i have that character. I can see him on screen in the film. And as i see him and i read the words, then i realize, okay. If this person is saying he will say it this way. So i make a note. I dont just willynilly show up on quentins sentence and Say Something that he had written. And say wait, wait what is that. He will go to him and say i know what you mean here. But you ought to say it this way. An will say, well, read what i wrote, okay. Say it the way you want to say it. Okay, i like it, keep it. Rose if he likes it, he will keep it. Keep it. Or he will say no, say it the way i wrote it. Rose and you accept that. Yeah. Rose you dont argue for it. Huhuh. Rose now the way this character is dressed, its winter, its cold, really cold. Yeah. Rose was that the costume that you imagined . We went through several iterations of that costume. Because he actually lives on that mountain. So at one point quentin had envisioned him as more of a mountain man. So he had on a different coat and he had leggings on that were made of fur. And all this other stuff. In my mind, i had seen him as Lee Van Cleef for a very long time. When he finally got to the Lee Van Cleef thing, okay, we are finally on the same page, the black suit, white shirt red tie under the old army suit that was his that he wore during the war with his black kaf all ree boots still on. Rose i loved the part about the letter from lincoln. Explain that. Were in a time that is post civil war. And. Rose like the 1860s, early 70ss. Yeah, maybe five, six years after the war. And to have an interesting item like that, can either be a cause for conversation or a cause for a fight in an interesting sort of way. And especially for a person. Rose you mean. Cause for a fight. Especially for a person like plea to have it. And considering my history with the confederacy. So having that letter. Rose your character had fought the confederacy. Yes. And had a bowntee on my head. A bowntee placed on my head by the confederacy because of my procliffity for killing. So to have that letter and to run it to the right person of the dominant culture was an entree for me to meet those people and have them look at me a different way. Rose everybody you met who knew about the letter thought about the letter. Yes. Rose talked about the letter, wanted to see the letter. Yes, yeah. Cuz i mean its a great thing. If i had a letter from president obama and i told people yeah, i walk around with a letter from president obama, people would say oh, wow, can i see it, a personal letter, not just one of those form letters. Rose and how do you know president , that is what they would ask you. Exactly. How do you know him. Rose how do you know lincoln. Exactly. Well, we never met but he knows my war record and we were pen pals. Rose but back to quentin. Why somebody would believe that beyond. Rose it was a stretch. But back to you and quentin. Uhhuh. Rose this is a this is one of those things that works. Its like de niro and scorsese. Yeah, i like that comparison. Rose but its true. Yeah, very much so. Rose what is it . I think we have a similar respect and love for the cinema. And cinema played a big part of both of your young lives, our childhood lives. He spent a lot of time in the movies. I spent a lot of time in the movies, watching tfertionz, ents taining myself. We are both only children. I dont know that he read as much as i did. But i read a lot. I had. Rose he was watching videos. Yeah, when he finally got to that place. I had a great desire to get out of the place that i was in, into a place that i thought was better in the world. I knew there were places better than chattanooga, tennessee, that i wanted to see and explore. And i read about them. Rose a better place for you to stand to find your dream. Of course, definitely. That was nothing in chattanooga, tennessee, that was going to allow me to grow in a way that i knew i wanted to grow. Or that wasnt going to get me killed if i expressed that idea. Rose so you wanted to go to new york, or l. A. I wanted to go to i wanted to go to the world. When i graduated from high school, i applied to a lot of colleges. But i also filled out a form on a merchant ship cuz i wanted to see the world. And my mom found it. She found the letter that came back saying, you know, that they needed some more info before they could actually give me this job. What job is this. S kind of a ship thats going to be going around the world. Shes like huhuh. Rose is your mothery live now. No, she passed two years ago. Rose so she got to see everything. She got to see a lot. Rose she got to see her boy. She was at the ceremony when i got my star on the walk of fame in hollywood and all those things, yeah. She went to a couple of premiers. Rose what does she think about pulp fiction. She didnt understand why john tra volta died and came back in the movie. Rose she didnt get that. She didnt get that whole time adjustment thing. Rose when you read that script, did you know this is going to be. Of course not. I read it and i thought it was something that my friends would like. I knew i loved it. I actually read it cover to cover and took a breathe and laughed to myself. And just flipped it over and read it again to make sure i wasnt fooling myself. This cant be this good. I have never read anything like this in my life. And i said well, if Harvey Weinstein lets us shoot what is in here, its going to be a great movie. I dont know how many people are going to like it hi no idea that it would have crossover appeal the way it did or lasting power. Its like every year. Rose a classic. Its like every year i get like 10 million new fans because there are all these kids who come of age and their parents or their big brothers let them watch it for the first time. And they think it is the coolest thing they have ever seen in the world. Rose how many movies has quentin made. Eight movying. Rose eight movies. Now should we have expected him to have made more or does it take that long to make a good movie . I dont think. So i think your average director makes 12 to 15 movies in his career. Good ones. Theyre usually the person on set that has had the least amount of experience of everybody who is there. Everybody else has been on way more films, especially actors and the crew members. Rose now that you have made so much money and have been so admired and can do anything you want to, is there something you have always wanted to do that you may at long last take time to do . You mean other than what i do . Rose yeah. To come to broadway. I was on broadway two years ago. Rose i know. I know that. Do i want to come back, sure, i would love to come back and do a play. I just need to find the right play. Rose what is the right play. I dont know. Rose there is not one that you have always wanted to be. No, no, i dont have a desire to be lear or othello or sni of that stuff. Rose do you have any desire to be jordan. Yeah. Rose. At least one day in my life, yeah. I really wish. Rose i would have said tiger but. Not any more. Well, but i would take a good ten years ago tiger day. Rose yeah, i would too. You know. But i would just like to go to the golf course one day and everything i know how to do well goes with me. Rose yes. What is the best round you ever had. Best round i ever had was two under par. Rose is that right. Yeah. Rose is acting different for you now or is it the same process . The same concentration, the same or does it come easier. Do you know how to access yourself better. I do know how to tap into those places that i need to tap into better. And more readily. I dont change the process because the process got me here. So there are certain things that i have to do. I have to sit, i have sto read the script. I have to live with that character. I have to know where that character came from, who his parents were, where he was born, where he went to school, if he went to disool. Rose thats called a back story. Yeah. Was he in the service what kind of serviceman was he. Rose you need to know that. Just for me. Rose to get inside. What kind of friends does he have. What kind of food does he really like. Rose and what does that tell you, just tells you who he is. It informs me of a whole human being. It gives me a whole person to show up on screen with. A person that has been places and done things, so that when i arrive on screen, you know im coming from somewhere. And when i leave, you know im going somewhere, that is important also. And i have another life that may have nothing to do with anything that is gtion on in that story. So it helps you carry yourself in a different way. Do you get inside that character and get inside the lines by just reading it over and over and over . Pretty much having read it 25 times, do you pretty much know it in a broad sense. I know it by the fourth or fifth time ive read it. You know it in terms of the whole. Of my lines and by the fifthth or 20th time ive read t i may be able to recite it. Rose by the sath and tot times. You dont sit there and just go over and over the same line. No. Rose you just read through. Read the story. Rose but you think thats a gift . I dont ive never perceived it as such. I always thought it was just the process because its always what happened when i was doing theater. Rose then explain to me talent. If its more its got to be more. Talent is having some innate ability to interpret die log and emotion and being able to present them to people in a very honest and real way. But you also need whats called a found daismghts you need a good grirntion you know, a great stance. So you got to know upstage, down stage, dominant, sub mission, you have to understand the tools you are given by there are rules in the theater. There are rules in acting that you have to live by. Rose but did you get it by doing it rather than by going to class. I got it by doing it. Rose yeah. Yeah. Everybody, by the time i got to new york, i had done so many things. I was a theatre major. So i disw a lot of theater in college with the morehouse film player. We had our own Street Theater Company called the black image theater. Then i did an improvisational childrens theater across town at the academy theater. And i was also in an improvisational structured theater or repertory theater. And what else did i do . I had another Theater Company that we started called wow, cant even remember the name of it. But that was another company that we started. So i did a lot of different kinds of things preparing myself to dive into this big new york theater pool. So when i got here, i immediately went to work off broadway. And then i started working in Manhattan Plaza to pay my bills. But i didnt go to class. And i would always ask these people or people would ask me to audition with them for a certain school. An i would do their piece with them and go and they wouldnt get in the school but whoever was running the school would always offer me a scholarship. Rose because you were. You had the muscles. I was like no, im good, you know. And then i would ask people who are you taking class from. What have they been in. Have you seen any of their work . Its like, there is a reason theyre charging you to teach you how to act, you know that, right. Rose but could you teach what you know . I probably could but im not patient enough for it im very impatient. My wife is very good at that. She helps kids all the time. Rose they say that about athletes. They say that the best, i think it was said about ted williams, he wasnt a great manager because he didnt quite understand how come you didnt. Why dont you get it. Rose yeah, why dont you have, why cant you do it like i do it. Yeah. Rose because he didnt know how not to do it. Exactly. I wouldnt be good at that. Rose i want to talk about major warren, roll tape. This is the first take, major marquus warren trying to get a ride into town. They are both bowntdee hunters, roll tape. Whoa. God room for one more . Who the hell are you . And what happened to them . Names major warren, former u. S. Kal vary. Trying to bring a couple of nogoods into market. You taking them into red rock . I figure that is where you headed, right. Yeah. That damn blasted blizzard has been on our ass for the last three hours. So you high tailing it halfway. You know i am. May i come aboard . Well, smoke, if it up to me, yes. But it aint up to me. Who is it up to . Fella in the wagon. Fella in the wagon partial company. Fella in the wagon paid for a private trip and im here to till he paid a pretty penny for privacy. So if you want to go to mini with us, you are going to have to talk to him. Well, thats what i will do. Rose thats great. Now you made the point, former kal vary man. What do you see in the scene connected to the horses. Well, the animal nas are moving that wagon around, i like horses, im looking at them. Im admiring them. How strong they are. The fact that they are, you know, out here in this weather, and withstanding it. My horse has died. And i do need a ride. So i got to figure out what angle i need to use to get inside that wagon. Fortunately for me, we met before. John ruth and i met and had a steak dinner together in chattanooga, tennessee, of all places. And he had seen my lincoln letter. So i have got an entree already. Rose he knew you. Roll tape. This is major warren and john ruth again talking about their different bowntee hunter style. This is fascinating. Watch this. I see you aint got mixed emotions about bringing a woman to a rope. By woman you mean her . No. I do not have mixed emotions. So you are taking to red rock. You bet. You going to wait around and watch it. Oh, you know i am. I want to hear her neck snap with my own two ears. You never wait to watch them hang . My bowntees never hang because i never bring them in alive. Never. Never ever. We talked about this in chattanooga. Bring a desperate man in alive is a good way to get yourself dead. I dont want to work that hard. No one said a job is supposed to be easy. No one said its supposed to be that hard neither. And that little lady is why they call him the hangman. When the handbill says dead or alive, the rest of us shoot you in the back up on top of a perch somewhere and bring new dead. But when john ruth the hangman catches you, you dont die from no bullet in the back. Huhuh. When the hangman catches you, you hang. Rose thases acting, that is great script. Shot well. I mean to have that stuff coming out of your mouth, i mean you you are actually talking about yourself. You are expressing your philosophy about, you know, your job. Your jofnlt its like no, i dont do my job the way you do it, no. Im not trying to work that hard. Rose. Its like office talk. Standing around the cooler. Rose intrigue us about what is interesting about major warren. E war when he realized it wasn a very valid execution excuse to kill white people, having been in slavery. And as they say in the film, i dont think the whole blue and gray of the thing mattered to him very much. Rose it was black and white. Yeah. It was an opportunity for him to gain a measure of power that he had never had. You put a gun in his hand and he was a pretty ruthless individual. Rose but he has also seen hard things. Yeah. Rose and he wanted revenge. He grew up in slavery. So naturally he has a whole other way of looking at the world. Its like when people vilify me online. Rose for this film or for what . For anything, for whatever. I mean i got vilified i guess last week for something i said about the Santa Barbara shooting. When i said i was watching, i was sitting in hawaii on set. Rose you mean San Bernardino. Yes, San Bernardino shooting. I was in hawaii on set, watching it on fox news, for some reason i was watching fox. Rose i was going to ask you that. And they were talking about the people. But they hadnt identified them. And i said that as i sat there, i hope that it was just another crazy white person with a gun and not, you know. Rose not a terrorist act. Not a terrorist act because that is something i could process. And i didnt want to i didnt want to think that all of a sudden we were going to have another group of people we were already afraid of terrorists already. But to val disait that would to val i disait that would endanger a whole other group of people that we hadnt really bothered with. The muslims that live in this country have their way of living. And we trust them in their religion in that way. But all of a sudden i felt like once they got identified as muslims, every muslim in this country became sment by a Certain Group of people in this country. Rose some politics. And i didnt want that to be the case. I figured that if it was just another crazy white dude, that is something we had already processed and we know how to handle that. Rose we have seen that before. And we seem not to vilify them in the way that we would vilify some other ethnic group. Rose how do you respond to all that . I dont. I read it, and i realize i understand why someone would have that idea, that they would think im racist. But i grew up in segregated tennessee. Very segregated tennessee. And i was in this country and i saw the signs and i heard the words and i lived through the Civil Rights Movement in terms of what the hate looked like what it felt like, what it sounded like and what it felt like to me when i was a kid, growing up. So when i say things, i say them from a place of ive seen this picture before. Or i have heard this hate before. And i understand what it is. So when i say things like i hope its not this person or that person, its like i sit at home and watch crimes happen on the news and i say to myself, gee, i hope its not a black person, you know. And i dont know that white people sit at home and watch the news and hope things like that. Rose there say scene here in which he is out in the snow, and there is a young plan who is a son of the bruce dern character. Yes. Rose and how you end his liefer. Yes. Rose in the cold. Yes. Rose any reaction to that scene as you go around talking about the movie . And did you have a reaction when you first saw it in the script . I laughed the first time i saw it in the script. I was kind of like wow, quentin, come on. Rose where are you going. What was that. We had a lot of discussions about it. Rose i love that. I would imagine. The first being am i telling this story to general smithers just so i will have an excuse to kill him. Rose that is the bruce dern character wants bus they have already told me i cant just kill him. Because i wanted to just kill him when i met him, and i realized who he was and realized he had killed a whole company of black soldiers for no reason other than what he said, we didnt have time to care for them or feed them. So we kill them where they stood. And they told me if i killed them, they were going to hang me. Thats a pobility, you know, i look at major warren and i look at all those people in that room and i dont think that would have happened. But he just didnt want to push it that far at that moment. So he concocts a tale as he lays the gun next to him to fell what happened for his son, to make him go for the gun so he can kill him. So thats a question as to the never asity of that tale. Rose right. But it is a great tale. Rose it is. It galvanizes your attention. Totally. Rose because you have no idea how this is going to end. Yeah. We asked quentin, who are you going to get to do this job. And then we all thought about it, oh, it is a tarantino movie, there is some acker somewhere saying to himself naked, tarantino movie in the snow with samuel l. Jackson, sign me up. Rose the marvel character, if you signed a new contract . No, i still have shall it. Rose seven movies to go. Three, i think, three, maybe left. Rose that has been a big pay day for you, hasnt it . No, actually. Its been a big pay day in terms of fan base or new fan base. No. Well, i dont know what they make. The only person that makes a lot of money making those movies is downey. Downey kind of got the gun to the head so we cant get any money. Hes got all of it. Rose you talked about directors and actors. Jennifer lawrence was here the other day. Shes good, really interesting. And she has that kind of relationship you have with quentin with david o. Russell. Yes. Rose same kind of thing. She said to me, a lot of people call me and i dont take the call. If he calls i pick it up right then. And he says im think being this, i say yes. Its great to have a relationship with somebody like that have i the same relationship with george lucas, you know. Or who else do i work with like that, or renny harlan, i loved working with renny on action pictures, but there are people that you automatically say sure. Yeah. I will do that. No problem. Rose because you have that much respect for them. Oh, yeah, all quentin has to say is im sending you a script. Sometimes he wont even say who the character is. When he was senning me django, he didnt want to tell me that i wasnt going to be django, that window of opity for me to be that young gunslinger had passed by. And he said, well. Rose he didnt want to tell you. I dont want to tell you, but the character is steven. So i was like who is steven. Just read the scriptd. He didnt even tell me. Sure enough, i read it. And i was sitting there starring at the script and i called him back and said so you want me to be the most dispicible neglect ro in the history of cinema. And he was like, well, yeah. Okay, lets do it. Lets do it cuz it was that kind of challenge to me, and it looked like that kind of fun. The disappointment in all of that is, is that as wonderful as steven is in django, that is the tame steven. He edited out all the really bad things that i did in the movie. Because he said i dont anybody to kill you. Cuz steven is kind of a nasty character. And if is like, he has enough proab being vilified himself as a racist because he uses the script that much or puts those kinds of words in a characters mouth. But i always tell people, i dont understand why they cant look at his work and realize that every character hes ever give enemy has pretty much been the smartest character in the film. That has the most dignity and respect and kind of runs things. And his, there is not a fool of any sort and understands a whole lot about what is going on in life and in the world. For him to write characters like that for me would be impossible for a racist to do. Rose there is no question in your mind there is no racism in Quentin Tarantino. No. Rose there is in Quentin Tarantino say writer. Yeah. Rose that is what he. Is i was on a plane across the country from him. And we were leaving california like at 10 30 on a red eye. And we were both sitting across from each other. And at about 12 clock, i have got the light off. Im asleep from now until 6 00. I woke up at 5 340, i look across. Hes still writing. Yeah. Well, he wasnt doing that, quentin, he was doing that. Quentin does not keyboard. Rose before i leave you, will you take a look at this. This is Stephen Colbert last night. This is hilarious t say sense of stephen at his best and also mr. Jackson doing some remarkable takes of great movie lines. Here it is. These are catch phrases that will forever from here on out and forever, belong to you. First, frankly, my dear, i dont give a damn. Hello, my name is indigo monday toya. You killed my father. Prepare to die. , lions and tigers and bears, oh my. Mrs. Robinson, you trying to is he diseus me . Seduce me. I think youre trying to seduce this audience. You shall not pass. That is my faif rit. Nobody puts baby in a car what khuna ma tata. Forever and ever these will now will these not belong to him now . Rose oh man, thats a keeper. So much fun. Rose thank you for coming. Thank you for having me. Its always a scwhroi to be here. Rose my pleasure. All right. Rose Samuel L Jack sorntion the film is called the Hateful Eight, getting a lot of attention. And especially as we approach oscar time. Back in a moment, stay with us. Is billions is show thymes new drama about new yorks world of power politics and high finance and law. The series comes seven years after the financial crisis, as the National Debate continues about wall street regulation and income inequality. The central narrative resolves around two powerful opposing figures. A brilliant Hedge Fund Titan and hard charging u. S. Attorney who is trying to bring him down. Here is a look at the trailer. What do we do has consequences, intended and unintended. Ed decisions we make, the actions we bring have weight. Come to work every day and be just as strong in the actions you bring, and dont waiver. When did it become a crime to succeed in this country . Everyone has access to the information. We just know how to analyze it belter. We spotted a suspect trading pattern. You must get pings like that every day. All three firms have links to bobby axelrod. Play hard, play clean, be careful out there. What did you take down last year. 7. 2 million. Your value to the firm is absolute. 7. 2. I want to. Im the u. S. Attorney, wendy. Are we teaching that daddys job is more important than mommies, quitd your job. There can be only one. If someone has a problem with you and they take that public, the ground just falls out from beneath them. Are you threatening me . A good plat adore doesnt kill a fresh bull. You wait until hes been stuck a few times. The moment i let someone in a Government Office tell me what i can or cannot buy, i may as well close the shop. And im not closing the shop. You wouldnt know the right thing to do if it kneeled down and sucked your tiny. Walk away. I should, but then again whats the point of having money if you never. Rose joing me the stars of the show emmy winning actors damian lewis and Paul Giamatti and also the shows creators Andrew Ross Sorkin and brian koppelman. Im pleetioned to have all of them here. Let me start with you, my friend. How did this come about . Because ive been like jealous knowing that were you developing this huge property for show thyme. Well, this came about, we developed this and we should said david levine also created this. His long time writing partner. For me, i had been thinking of i was thinking could you do a tv drama that actually. That really was an authentic nuanced look at this world of money and power. I never thought it was really done on tv. We happen to have the same agent. I kement saying i need a collaborator that has done this before. One day he said you know, there are these two guys, they wrote rounders, which i loved. You should go meet them. Theyre think being doing something, they want to do something finance too. We hung out one afternoon. And the journey began. Rose you had been think being this before. Yeah, for a long time. We had been researching this world. But you know, andrew brought to it we had been researching this world and were fascinated also by finance and by the powers that the United StatesAttorneys Office had. And the idea that these were kingdoms, in a way. Ambition and power were really attractive us to. And when andrew came walking in, we realized that his point of view, his expertise and his ability to connect us with the real people, would let us do this in a way that we couldnt otherwise do it. Rose so it also provided an opportunity for them to go talk to real people who do exactly what your character does. Yeah. I did, yeah. I talked to some of the attorneys and him. I talked to him. Very exciting. Rose so tell me what you learned from that that made them part of the character of axelrod. Well s axelrod is probably a is a fictional character. But. Rose you draw on real life experiences, ideas, people in creating a character. Of course, to a person, i found they had a stillness, a listening quality, an analytical quality. I found that to a man they were all risk averse. Rose is recognize risk averse. Despite dealing with these enormous figures, enormous sums. They didnt like risk. They ran from it. And really where they back themselves is their research, their analysis is greater than anyone elseses, is deeper, more profowrnd. And when they think they have a sure bet, they make it. And what about the prosecutors side. They were extraordinarily intelligent. Superhighpowered brains, way faster than my brain can ever work. Extraordinarily well, its a given. Extraordinarily dedicated guys. I mean, and extraordinarily, the level of confidence, it is almost show is parallel to this risk averse idea, there is this level of confidence that is almost terrifying. There is a surety. There is absolute surety in what they are doing. Rose as someone who went to law sciel, i wonder if people who were born to be pros cuters or defenders. Pros keutsers have the idea of wanting to a predator. It has that predatory feeling, it feels like they are killers. Rose and it feels like they are doing good. There is no question they are doing good. They are infallible in a way. Rose foo other characters, one is your wife who is evidently getting rave reviews for the performance. Shes fantastic. Magazineie shif plays my wife, wendy, who play is a psychologist who works to him. It creates all sorts of tension for me and her, me and him. Rose she helps him build the firm. She goes back and forth. She is the one character in it that really does sort of move back and forth between the two worlds. She is probably the most balanced person in the show. Rose how do you make a show that will be both attractive to the layman and the audience, the broad Television Audience and yet at the same time, be watched and loved by people who actually inhabit that world. I would say i think i mean its about money. And some degree, but you know, the tag line of the show is. Its not about the money. Thats right. And so but what is interesting about that is that in a way, the money is almost just the score card for the power and the pride. And so thats, i think, where we took tment and also you get inside these peoples lives in a way that is actually very relatable. Is any of this soap operaish. Any time you are dealing with ambition and power, i understand that as a question. But when you are given this whole bromied about money as a score card, when you talk to these people, they talk about winning. Thats what they care about. You go back to the finance ear, this question is animating to americans and always has been. American commerce is sort of our pasttime in a way. And we found it interesting the first time we talked to you, damian, that the british, one of the big sort of questions you had was how americans think about ambition. And you felt that it was different. How would we root, right . And i thought. To think about power. And ambition. Central to your story, to the american story, is that a man or woman can come here, right here in new york, transform themselves, make a life for themselves, not become president because they have to have been born here or have American Parents but come here, make something of themselves and. Other than the president. Exactly. And thats been your, at least to our foreign sensibility, that has been your royalty. Thatted person who makes it is applauded, is admired, is respected and congratulations. Money is hand add long. It sin herritied. But it is shifting right now. Exactly the point. Americans love this it seems to me when you look at the news, you look at the fact that mark cuban is our biggest reality star. And why is that. Donald trump before that. Right. Even further than that. But even further to the point, were fascinated by people who sefer myth ol giez. You talk about the prosecutors being on the side of good, predators for the side of good but you also look at how prosecutors use that position to advance their political kaer roose. Look at chris christie, geulianee, so i think there is a lot of gray area there. And palm does an incredible job of really coloring in those shadings. Rose in politics, frequently people go to states across the america from being the attorney general to being the governor. Yes, absolutely. Rose its a stepping stone frequently. Is that a good thing or not . Is it good that people can use whether in office they do good, if they are also doing good for themselves, is that shall. That is interesting. St a question we are trying to ask. There are par dimes in law that are meant to be disdition. Rose isnt there a line from wendy. She say deeply compromised character too. She is deeply compromised too. There say reminder, you remind her in the show. I think it is everything about opportunism, then every single character seems incapable of making a selfless act. Altruistic act. That was in some way serving themselves. Im the god u. S. Attorney, wendy. So i have been working there since before we were married and long before you were in office. Look. Not that were there, but we did always discuss that this day mietd come when there was a conflict. That was before i was making aide times what you make. And before you started making chuck senior plays like that. Keep him out of it, okay. And who makes more money, really . Is this what we are teaching the kid. Oh, are we teaching them that daddys job sawls more important than mommieses with. I work for the public good. No, you work for the good of chuck rodes, maybe sometimes they intersect. Rose the interesting quirks about the characters includes chuck rodes. Yeah. Rose yeah. You open with a dominant. Chucky boy scene. What is the flip side. Rose so you wanted to do show a quality about a nuanced character. When david and i were researching a movie kawltd the girlfriend spernses, we were interviewing men, like a hundred high priced escorts. And when you when you would get to the bottom of the if he ends of the interview, is there anything that might surprise us. Out of a hundred of them, 70 of them said the most powerful client i have is the one who wants to be dominated. The most powerful client. So the one who is the titan of industry or the one with huge control during the day, and so we thought about that. And tried to figure out, is that the flip side of this kind of need for power. Is there a desire to let go at some point. Is there a desire to not be in control . How does that yin and yang manifest. So as we were building the show, andrew, david and i, we started think being how can we showcase that in this. And then, you know, also, i just like looking at paul tied up. We all want to see that. Yeah. Fun, absolutely. Would you say acting was a fine line between delusion and belief . Yeah, there you go. Was the what kind of adjustment playing an american for snu. Same one every time, just i am not good enough to slip in and out between english and american accent during the day so i go to work and i wake unas an american and i, until i take my makeoff off at the end of the day, i stay as an american. Its easier that way. There were sounds for the new york accent which i needed to work on. And find. I think i showed up early on, you know, sounding like joe pesci and was quite excited about doing a lot of and with a lot of became very bronx here, its going to be fantastic, im going vay great time. And then was told quite promptly that wrong show. So it really is about whenever im working on american accent, its about ka dense, rhythm and emphasis more so than simply vowell sounds. I remember when we hung out before starting this, we would go around and meet Hedge Fund Managers and we do the american only when your wife called would you go into your. Darling, hi. What is so great, damian, and so fun to watch is the precision you approach each part of it you said it about dam yen, you are so precise. I would want people to watch, when you talk about meeting the hedge fund guys. I know you found the way you move for this character differently from other characters you played. He moves his body, the way he acts, there is a prev sition and coiled nature to the way axe moves. You ask a lot of those questions, what kind of creature is this. Rose a couple of other things about this. Number one you are going to deal with sort of big social issues as well in terms of income inequality, in erm its of regulation, in terms of libertarianism and all that . Certainly by the end of the season these two guys are going to get into into those questions in a pretty heavy way. Look, we were interested in why, what makes it if were all fascinated by the way money works in this country, one of the questions is just why. Why cant somebody stop at 10 million. We were sitting with a prosecutor once who had turned down a job for 3 million a year. And we asked this person, why they stayed in the job. And it was quiet. It was an offtherecord. And they looked us in the eye and they said the power. Rose ed power. They admitted it. I go et to decide, this person said, without gets prosecuted, without doesnt. And. That is better. Kissinger famously said po wir is the ultimate aphrodisiac. But to give voice to that, when you had are in a position where you are supposed to be doing it for the good of the public. Rose the power to indict, to bring the state down on top of you, the people. And pot we are not to the decision not to. Yeah. The person said if i prosecute everything, then business cant work in this country. And i said well, why im sorpee, is it your job or is it your job to prosecute when you find vy laitionzs. I want to be really clear. This is not somebody at the southern district, but it was somebody of equal of equal weight. But i couldnt believe the person actually was willing to add miss admit that they got an endorphin hit from the power. Because we hope that our those people sitting in these chairs are dispassionately prosecuting the law. You went to law school. That is what you are trained to do. And so yes, were going to get into income inequality. But we are as interested in how justice is and is not carried out. Which for us right now is an incredibly rich theme. It is absolute power corrupts absolutely, then that must be true of these people. And at what point does is there a nars civil involved, did you find that in them. Absolutely. Are you like a Fighter Pilot of the law, sort of. It is a similar sort of, test pilot, brain surntion its that kind of sense of selfthat is pretty enormous. Its also advice ainlts. Advice aijt. There is than incredible duality. What is so confusing, when you are are trying to pull it apart. Is they are doing good. That is why you can then say it gives me a rush because im doing good. Im not saying it is a justification but it is certainly a motive. Are you going to refer to real people like bill we refer, in certain instances we dont. We refer to mr. In a very nice way a couple of times. You had promised us a cam yo. He never showed. We never got there. You know there say picture, no, but bobby, there is a picture of bobby and buffett behind him in axe capitol. If you look very carefully. Have i to say this and i apologize. I sat next to him at the white house, at a white house dinner opposite its president , i was next to warren buffer et. And the more, i dont know if it was the more wine he was drinking or i was drinking but he became more and more like bur guess meredith as the evening went down. Is he a natural, forget him. He has done a lot of cam yo. He has done cam yos in different kinds of things. Eight in the series. 12 in the first, 12 in season one. Rose and it begins when. The 17th on show thyme. Rose what time. 10 p. M the perfect 10 00 show. But its on demand already. Oh, so you. Sneak peek. You can stream the whole thing. On show thyme. Only the first episode. Congratulations, great to see t pbs. Org and charlie rose. Com. Captioning sponsored by Rose Communications captioned by Media Access Group at wgbh access. Wgbh. Org rose funding for charlie rose has been provided by the following production was produced in high definition. Every single bite. Twinkies in there. Its like a great big hug in a cold city. May parents put chili powder in