Transcripts For KQED Charlie Rose 20150421

It. And thats what is entertaining, that is what is real. That is where the show is doing what i wanted it to do. Rose al hunt, john podesta and tea leoni when we continue. Funding for carlie rose is provided by the following rose funding for charlie rose has been provided by rose additional funding provided by and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and Information Services worldwide. Captioning sponsored by Rose Communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. Rose the most Influential Democratic Party insider today is john podesta. Chief of staff to president clinton. He founded a center for American Progress think tank spearheaded an historic Climate Change pact with china and es hes now chairman of Hillary Clintons president ial campaign. We are pleased to have him here, john, thank you for being here. Thanks. The clinton rollout has been carefully choreographed but lowkey. Is this purposefully to contrast with 2007 . No, i think its were very excited abouted way this campaign has begun. I think we wanted to make the point that this is to the about her. Its about every day americans and what she wants to be the champion that began with the launch video that we released sunday and her trip to iowa. And then really i think at her determination to really create a conversation with voters and inn iowa do it at a small case to talk to voters oneonone to answer their questions, to ask them some questions to exchange ideas, and toed whether this campaign from the bottom up. One group of americans shes not talking to is the pressment shes not very accessible am is that going to continue . She took a few questions in iowa. Not very many. But will that be the general approach. You know, look we are on week one of a 19 month campaign. So i think that the press will have plenty of time to ask her questions. But rit now she wants to have a dialogue with the voters and i think she doesnt want that necessarily mediated through reporters questions. She wants to go directly to voters to listen it their stories, to understand what the challenges of their lives are. And thats why shes back in the van and on her way to New Hampshire. And she will be able to she will be able to shes driving to New Hampshire . She is as we are doing this interyou have shes driving to New Hampshire. Shell get to keanee and start off that dialogue by touring a Small Business in keanee New Hampshire and then having a dialogue about how we can do a better job of making sure every american in every day america have a shot to start their own businesses to be entrepreneurs, to get the access to credit to cut red tape and she wants to talk to those people. And when will she start rolling out specifics on big issues . Well look were in a rampup phase. I think at this point she wants to have she laid down the challenges that she thinks that are facing america. Starting with building a new economy for the future. Thats going to reward people for hard work. She will have specifics on that. She is definitely going to put specifics on it. But again, this is going to be a Long Campaign an we are a he in a phase where were building out the campaign shes talking to voters. Sometime next month when we have a more official if you will launch of the campaign shell explain to the American Public what she wants to do. And thats the appropriate moment where she will begin to put specific policy proposals out. Buts thiss not going to be a oneshot only deal. I know you want to see the whole platform today. But we have 19 months and were going to build up to a position where people really understand what why she wants to be a champion for every day americans what shes going to do an why she thinks shes the best candidate to do it. You did put out a statement on the trade pact last week artfully worded but decidedly negative. For instance she says she wants to see if it and im quoting, cracks down on currency manipulation. Yet as you know thats the province of finance ministers and central bank not really trade agreements. So my question is is she really kind of keying up by setting up that kind of an issue to oppose o bomba on trade. Look, people used to say that environment is not part of trade agreements labor rights arent part of trade agreements. Now theyre at the core of whether well have a trade agreement that meets the two tests that she laid out. Which is are they going to does it produce more jobs for American Workers . Does it produce wage growth and are we going to create more jobs than were replacing. And are we going to strengthen our national security. Those things are at the heart of it. Currency manipulation now is at the heart of whether trade can be fair. So it has to address currency manipulation. I think there has got to be a way in which the president can reassure the American People that currency manipulation is being dealt with in the context of this trade negotiation. Or its worth walking away. And so she stated some skepticism about that. But i think the most important thing is that it has to meet these high standards that she has put forward. Her leadership is to provide, you know what needs to be in these agreements and that includes labor rights. That includes environmental protection. That includes making sure that Public Health is aptly attended to. That people have access to lifesaving drugs. She stated in her book hard choices that she is somewhat skeptical about this whole issue around isds the socalled special negotiating provisions because what we dont need to do right now is to tilt the Playing Field more in favor of corporations and against workers and consumers. She has been very populist in her tone that first week without some specifics. And shes talked about the wealthy getting too much the spoils. She stapped as her cfo gary againstler which was a trough critic of wall street as a regulator though he used to work on wall street. Managing wall street john, is her Campaign Going to look more like liz warren than bill clinton . I think shell put out her own ideas and i think that will start with protecting dodd frack instead of tearing it down which is what you hear on the republican side finishing the job on wall street reform. So more regulations. I think while the too big to fail still needs work its still being dealt with by the regulators i think it needs to be pressed ahead. So if you are if you know the lack of regulation particularly right in advance of the crash got us into trouble. I think we dont want to go back there. We need to move forward. We need to insurance that banks are healthy an theyre providing credit to businesses in this country. But also that theyre well regulated and they dont result in what we saw in 2008 when the financial crash lead to devastating results from families all across the country. Can the banks be broken up . I think that what we need to do is have tough regulation. Im sure shes going to have some ideas about how we do that. She has decried the corrosive influence of money and politics that we may even have to try a constitutional amendment to stop. But yet shes also reversing the obama practice taking money from washington lobbyists and pacts. Is she also going to consider accepting money from groups that dont disclose their donors socalled dark money . Look shes fighting against dark money. Thats what she said in iowa. She cant take dark money. Shes what she is out there doing is saying that we need to clean up financial the Campaign Finance to listen to the voices of every day americans to to you know move forward and if takes a constitutional amendment so be it. I think the first thing that she will do in quite frackly and that this will set her apart from her republican opponents is that shell appoint Supreme Court justices who protect the right of ef reamerican to vote. Not every corporation to buy an election. So you know that is, i think going in position for her. And i think that we need campaignfinance reform. Theres too much dark money in politics and she would like to see it out. Why take money from washington loppeeist lobbyists obama didnt. Obama didnt. I think if youve noticed how much money is coming at us the Koch Brothers pledging almost 900 million to be spent in this election. Ted cruz raising 31 million per super pac in two weeks. I think that our judgement was we will take money if its legal obviously. And if its from you know, were just going to have to have the resources to to compete in this election which is going to be supercharged with special interest money coming at any democratic candidate but particularly Hillary Clinton. If you listen to the republican candidates in New Hampshire last week you know youll see what is coming at us. And there could be theres going to be a tremendous amount of money being thrown at her so were going to raise the resources that are necessary. What were concentrating on is raising what now seem like small dollar donations. Primary donations that can be from you know 1 up to 2700. Were trying to do that online by going to Hillary Clinton. Com. Were doing it by asking people to raise money from their friends and neighbors. But were not going to cut off resources from people who have participated in the political system and have a right to will she release her full tax returns and medical records before the primaries . She released her tax returns before 2008 up to and through 2008 and she intends to release her tax returns again in this campaign seasonment and she will do consistent with what others have done in the past release her Health Records at an appropriate time. That would be full medical. Release, i think she is going to do shell have a release consistant with what people have done in practice which is people will know that shes in very good health. And they will be reassurance from her doctors that when its appropriate. And if there is anything to see in there youll see it. You mentioned New Hampshire republicans or gop in New Hampshire last week en. They attacked her on her record, her character even her Shopping Habits john. Were you surprised so tough sorlee. I know. Was i surprised . Well lets put it this way. They really dont seem like theyre that into her. But i wasnt that surprised. They are running a fully negative campaign. But look it comes with the territory. And i think what were doing is concentrateding on how we can make every day american lives better not on attacking the republican candidates. If they want to spend all their time attacking her and not talking about what the future should look like for the American Public so be it. Thats their choice. One of those second year candidates charlie fiarini said it wasnt about her a againa it was about her lack of accomplishments. Particularly as secretary of state. What were her major accomplishments as secretary of state. She put together that sanctioned package thats lead to at least the possibility of having a deal on the iran nuclear program. That took very patient and long time careful diplomacy. She restored americas place in the world through which had been very badly battered through the previous administration. She engineered a pivot to asia, socalled pivot to asia. Her first trip was to china. She was i think put some new issues on the table for american diplomacy including Internet Freedom and the importance of womens rights as human rights of lgbt rights as human rights as part of our diplomatic package. Which i think restored values to the way america projects its power around the worldment and she was tough on terrorism and participated in the decisions that lead up to the to the eventual killing of o bin laden. So i think she has a strong record to run on and shell run on it. Another candidate rand paul really went after her on benghazi. Said it dis four americans were killed. The chairman of the House Committee trey gowdy says the missing emails he will have to personally interview her privately before there is any public inquiry. Will she go along with that . She has gone out of her way to answer these questions. Already testified about it. It was a tragedy. And i think she responded to it. And she has put forward all of her emails that had to do with her job as secretary of state to the state department. Shes taken unprecedented step and asked them to release all of them after theyve been reviewed. She has said she will testify before mr. Gowdy but she wants to do it in public and i think thats appropriate. She didnt want a private interview. Whats the point of a private interview. She is perfectly willing to be testified and grilled if you will in public so that a couple of things can happen. One is that the American People can see all the mails that she isnt since they have he seem obsessed with that. They can see her record as a strong secretary of state. Shell answer the questions about what lead up to it. I think there have already been seven inquireries and theyve all dispelled the conspiracy theories that the republicans started peddling at the beginning. It was a tragediment we lost four americans including a great ambassador. And i think it was, you know, a tragedy for those families and i think she took responsibility moved forward. Appointed a commission implemented a set of new procedures which secretary of kerry has moved forward with to insurance that were never going to eliminate this risk never going to eliminate it. We can minimize it. We can do a better job. We can create better flows of intelligence. But if we want american diplomats out on the front lines doing their job taking those risks risking their lives cant get that risk to zero. The only thing you can do is take responsibility when tragedies happen and try to build on those, and move forward and that is exactly what she did. Another controversy that has just come out is that there is a book that is going to come out may 5th that accuses the clintons of giving favors to foreign interests while cashing in on donations to their foundation. The book was circulated to members of the Senate Foreign relations committee. Some members. I dont know who. I havent read the book. And also it sounds like maybe just the republican members. Maybe just because maybe just because you know marco rubio and rand paul happen to be members of the Senate Foreign relations committee. It was not circulated by the democrats. Not to the best of our knowledge. The New York Times, the washington most and fox news cut a deal where they were going to work with the author and i have never quite heard of Something Like this. To follow up on any charges. Is in of concern to you . Well look lets take a look at this book. And you know its kind of par for the course in politics. Its a book thats written by a former bush op rattive who is a reporter for that august News Institution brightbart. Com or has been in the past. Hes cheree picked information that has been disclosed. And woven a bunch of conspiracy theories about it. The facts theres nothing new about the conspiracy theories, i guess well get to judge when we read the book. Were you surprised the New York Times cut a deal with him to foulup . I think they have to be asking themselves is that kind of appropriate behavior. They have a lot of reporters that could take a look at it too. But you know you get them in here and ask them that question. I will. But i think this is a you know this is what it is. Its, you know weve seen it before. There have been a couple of others earlier of places where the perception of fairness is belied by the cheree picking of facts the weaving of conspiracy theories. And i want you to remember something, al. The only reason there are not out there is the Clinton Foundation has out put all of that out. They have gone beyond any foundation of like size thats operating globally in public disclosure. And they you know im very knowledgeable and very proud of the work theyre doing around the world whether its hiv aids whether its providing Development Assistance to people in africa, whether its trying to rebuild hatie haiti. Theory doing tremendous work. And i think that all the clintons are proud of what the found sdation has been able to do. The Clinton Foundation has said its to the going to take money from some of the more controversial foreign governments. It hasnt said that. It said it will take money from the small from a small set of countries that have been funding previously programs that are on the ground theyre working theyre in malawi theyre in liberia in ethiopia in haiti, theyre doing Climate Change work in the caribbean. Those fruns that that small set of governments is building real real sustainable development. And they said they will continue to accept that money. U. K. , germany canada australia, netherlands and norway, i believe. But arent there still potential conflicts with those governments . I think the work is wellknown. If anybody wants to they should get on the plane with the president chelee chelsea, go look at the actual projects, look at the work thats being done. Look at the lives that are being saved. Look at the fact that the Clinton Foundation people were on the ground in liberia working with president to try to deal with the ebola crisis go out and look and see what is going on on the ground. And then say whoa is that a conflict of interest. Or is that actually doing something good for the world, that actually i think that only peps helps the people being directly helped by the work of the foundation but i think its actually why the president is viewed as in such high regard around the world. And i think that place benefits for the united states. You just cited bill and clell see clinton. What role will bill clinton and what role would you envision Chelsea Clinton playing in this campaign. President clinton kind of answered that in an interview in town country. And i think he appropriately said. Telling him her idea hes playing behind the scenes role, i think its appropriate. If you know him al and you if wanted somebody who was if you wanted someone who is pretty good at politics you would probably want him providing some advice to you. And you know, in an appropriate role hell go out and campaign but now is not that time. Hes doing what he can to do, to further his work of the foundation. And chelsea is fully invested in the foundation. And raising a little baby. So i think again i think i dont think in this, i think shell be out there but i think at an appropriate time. Its not right now. One of the many problems of the Clinton Campaign in 07 was the clinton constellation is huge am and there were many voices coming in. So socalled hangers on were coming in. Do you have the authorities chairman, to keep those people out . Hope so. Keep them out . I mean im always im always interested in peoples views. And i i encourage them to be but we have a tight and disciplined campaign being run by roby mook who worked in the campaign in 2008 in the states. Just came off the Successful Campaign for calls for governor virginia. Hes built a fabulous team. I think well have the most Diverse Campaign in president ial history. And we have a set of values in this campaign that means that people who remember what were about which is to improve the lives of every day americans will succeed. People who are tight and disciplined will succeed. And if people are not that then there will be no place for them in the campaign. Finally you have mentioned several times its a 19th month campaign. You may have primary opposition, you probably will. Will Hillary Clinton debate any primary o uponant . Yeah. Im confi didnt well have primary opposition. One of the things were going to do is fight for every vote. We dont take any of this for granted. So if the votes are there shell be there. You know of course shell do that. We expect to be challenged and we will run a campaign in all territories to get the nomination and then are run a National Campaign if we are lucky enough to be the winner of the primary. Thank you so much for being with us. Well be back in just a moment. Rose tea leoni is here, she has starred both in film and television. She was in the nbs sitcom the naked truth and movies such as deep impact and spaglish. She is become on television after 16 years starring in madam secretary. The Hollywood Reporter rights leoni is the center and the appeal in madam secretary. And her casting is spot on. Her gravitas is believable at every turn. Here is a look at the series. Madam secretary the ambassador of canada is suing your office. Holy which is not soundproof. So are we at crazy ideas . Always. Your government is suing everything to keep you safe. Even if it means nuking someone else. Remind me why we had kid sms. They were supposed to be cute. Madam secretary of state you need to speak to me with respect. How did i do . No one has launched any missiles at us yesterday. Yet. Pleased to have tea leoni at this table for the first time, by the way. Yes. Rose you came over to cbs to see it. Dont say it like i didnt want to come. Rose i didnt know. Did you want to come. We wanted you so much. Are you kidding ive been looking at this unvarnished desk for 16 years wrz you didnt do anything. You were doing unicef. I have been doing some you just took 16 years off and said i dont need this acting thing. Im going to go do good things for my i have liked to balance it i would i like to balance it i dont like to work very often. Well not in film or television. I just find there is a lot to be done with two kids. And you have to fit fly fishing must fairly new obsession its in my blood. I have a long line. My grandmother he is a corporate attorney. Yes but hes with chairman of the board he just room stepped down. And weve been on the boarding to for about ten years. A bit of nepotism. Yeah there is no way they were putting me on that board with adam. Even better than that my grandmother was one of the founders with. You had another grandmother theater person. Same grandmother. The same one. She was an actress and then decided at the ripe old age of 28 probably a good call, to get out of the ugly business. And so she founded the u. S. Fund for youth. Was that sort of in your head when you got out for a while . Its been yes its still a little bit in my head. That i could see segueing into that work fulltime. Did you find fly fishing on your own did you have some person that lead to you the river . Well my great grandfather is on somebodys side and married him was er hewitt. Rose who is to longer alive. No longer with us. Rose he was a teacher he was good . He was a a great fly fisherman. And if i were to get into the specifics of the hackel that he designed and the felt on the bottom. You would be so board. Im bored already. But de teach you before he no he didnt. And in fact my dad is not really into fishing. I got into it when i was really young. Just dropping a bobber off of a pier. Then i found fly fishing much later. And i just i love it. Its like a great meditation. Rose being out there alone in your boots in the river searching for that. Yes. He why. I had golf for a while but as i think its with twain that said golf is a great walk ruined. And fishing is actually a good stand in the river. Its even better if you have a pole in your hand. Rose especially if there is a lovely sun bouncing off the water. Yeah, right. Rose you just get so into it. You do yeah. Rose and its skill too like golf. Yes t is more of an art than a sport like golf potentially, i would say. Rose but you gave up golf because i was going to invite you to play. No, i will play, any time. Bring it on. Im terrible. Actually you know what is funny its that first round. Thats all im really good for is one round of the whole year. I go out there. Im not thinking about it. Rose day one youre good. Smack it around. My short game its out of its like somebody. Its just crazy. And then the second round thats it. Im shooting in the high 150s. Rose do you work out every day do you do all these kinds of things. I would like to. Not really i like to get out and walk. Rose but are you a city girl. Yes. Rose so you walk in the park. Yes. Well, what . Well if i had my druthers i wouldnt be in the city. Rose where would you be . I would probably go to vermont. Rose would you really . Yeah. I mean i think or maybe the cape. Rose where was that place when you left. I went to putney. Rose oh putney yes. To the Putney School which i it taught you to be a human. I thought i had that before. But it perfected it for me. I mean there is something about. Rose people were getting up at 4 30 in the morning and shofling maneuver. Maneuver. Thank you for finding that word for me. Actually, in my i think about my kids. My daughter is going to be doing a semester at a place called the Mountain School next fall which is a little putney esq. And both of my kids have to do outward bound. Rose are they both girls. I have a 16yearold girl almost 16 on friday. Rose lets give her a big party. No. Rose you know why 16 was so great . Why. Rose in North Carolina its when you got your drivers license. Oh listen were going at 8 00 in the morning. Its the greatest feeling in the world am i dont care what her first class is i hope its a free but im taking her to the dmv and getting herr permit first thing. Done you remember that feeling when you oh and you could borrow your dads car with a full tank of gas. Rose but its a great day for her. It is. Its going to be a great day. Rose what else are you going to do to celebrate with her . Well were just doing a family thing about the grandparents and everybody on the day. And were getting her a funny cake. Rose she is still close to her father. Yeah. Rose so he hes here. I mean hes in new york of the david is just very busy because hes got all of these other things going on. Well and hes writing books and making albums. So hes busy but he is based out of new york. So thats great. We live about six blocks from each other so it iss perfect. Rose you see each other a lot because of the kids. Yeah. Rose now when they proposed this series, did you say perfect just for me. The character is me the personality is me. This is the story of a woman cia agent sort of retired was she . Yesing and living on a force farm. Rose you can imagine this already. I dont really see myself ever getting to this level. Or anything like it. But i did relate to the idea that this was not a career politician. Rose she would have your personality. She was a bit funky. Thank you. Spunky. Yes, yes. And i also Barbara Barbara halls writing. Rose the producer . Shes our creator. Rose did you shape this character as it has grown . Yes. Rose has it become more you . I dont know. I think were meeting somewhere in the middle. But i think that the idea that, you know i have been doing film and with film its two or three months and youre done. You turn your back on it. Rose dow like this better . I dont know. Its for sure longer. Really cuts into the fly fishing, i have to say. Thats annoying but the thing is you get to grow. The characters you really sort of get its more of a tavy with them. Rose the golden age of television, today. Yeah, i think theyre right. Rose i saw the other day that sop ran owe was voted the best Television Series of all time within wow. Rose because you had mash and you had yeah yeah. But i have to tell you that is so i dont know how anybody could do that really truly with all. Rose with continuous with one character. No, say that this is the best. Although i put the sopranos up there. Rose people can have different pferns. You would put it up there. I would. Rose what else would you put on your list . I would have to put lucy up there. Rose of course you would. Well, of course. Rose it seems there are a lot of women starring in Television Series these days. Yes. Which is really fun actually. Rose really good. Because were covering a lot of ground. Rose what does that mean . Well, i think this idea of seeing women as a certain onedimensional character the housewife or fish out of water at any office. Rose a strong character at the Centre Within were covering all of our bases. We have women with issues. We have women in politics. We have women who are heads of great countries or teams. Its a different its a very different landscape now. I meet even dare say better. Yes, i would say, i would say. Everybody says it is hillary. Did hillary enter in your mind in terms of thinking about the character . Yes, whether or not i was going to be a blond or a brunet. But i had no idea. Rose if it was allowable she would go through that too im sure. I had no idea how important that decision was. It was a little bit i was going on a whim. I thought this is a tv. Rose i think bond is better, dont new. Well, thank you. Actually i thought if this is a series and it goes for several years coy start to go gray and it would be easier to highgrade in blond than it would in brunet that was my thought process. Rose okay good. Do you worry about going gray . No i look at my mother shes 73 years ol. And shes gorp guess. And shes got fabulous white gray hair. And doesnt wear doesnt do anything. Rose make snup. She will throw on some you know, as she used to say to me as a kid she is from texas. The idea of is go fix your face. Which i always thought that was the most hilarious explain. Rose go fix your face. Oh my gosh let me see what i can do here. But shell fix her face. Put on some lipstick sometimes. Rose so define your character for me. Who is Elizabeth Mccord other than exspook. Its funny. The exspook part of it is she wasnt really. Because she was a cia analyst some she wasnt in the field doing much covert creepy work. Rose okay. But i think first and another most she is a great diplomat. What makes a great diplomat . Well, i would say judging from my mother who i think is one of the greatest diplomats ever hes very even keeled. And very even tempered and always able to see the other guys arguments better than the other guy ask. And i think thats a real key to diplomacy. I do too actually. And i gave that to elizabeth in my gut. She would have that. Rose its not only being able to see the other guy but commune cating that you can see. Yes. In a way that is gentle and affirming. That youre listening and that you get what he is saying, however. There is this side as well. Right. And i am i can only imagine how challenging that gets at certain terms. Have you for a moment thought well it might have been fun if i had become a diplomat, not like unicef but like u. S. Ambassador to. Well ive got some time you know. Rose yes, you do. For a young person. I might kick that around. But i dont thinks there theyre sending me to china. Rose you dont think. I think theyre senning me to someplace much smaller much smaller yes maybe one of the islands probably not the big one. Rose you could be in aluthra. How has this character grown . Well shes gotten better at the job i think, a little bit. Shes gotten slightly more normal. Rose normal . Yes, and i dont want this. Rose you dont want her to be normal. Normal is not something that appeals to you at all about anything about life normal. No, not so much. No. I no. But i would like for letter to stay thinking outside of the box. I dont want her to sort of fall into that so i will do my best to keep that alive. Isnt this your character. Yes, she is actually i have lori mccrery who is withouting with pore began freeman, really morgans producer. And barbara hall and i would say the three of us are on exactly the same page. Rose didnt you spend some time with mad line allbright. I did. I had a coffee. Listen, dont knock it i got a coffee. Im to the going to say what you have got. Because i know you can snub me on that one. But it was a great coffee. Shes fascinating and shes fun. Rose yes. Were going on a double date next weekend to the White House Correspondent dinner. Im going with bob schieffer. Rose this week end. Well i consider that next. Rose so this character what is the drama of this . Well i will tell you what the drama isnt. We sort of set out to do a woman who could. Rose who could what . The little train that could. You know, i think there are a lot of the Television Space has a lot of women who are struggling with very dramatic and fun things to play. Whether its sort of, you know the rogue husband or the addiction or the strange fetish. And i was a little concerned but also adamant that elizabeth can do this. That a woman can do this. This is not about. Rose a woman can be secretary of state . Well we know that. What dow mean then can do this . What is this . Can have a family that works. Rose oh sure. A marriage that works. Rose yes. Be in a powerful position and be more powerful lets say than her husband in terms of their careers and be supportive. And we havent really seen that and of course once we have laid it all out on paper, i thought just the idea. I thought wow is this going to be dull compared to what we are seeing. And im hoping its not. I think were having a lot of you have an interesting husband. Tim daley. Yeah. Than a character. Annettics professor. Rose that is always perfect isnt it. Just throw out that old ethics professor husband. Rose always an academician. Sort of looks like tom hanks. Thats what it is isnt it. I mean you can be its like, i mean i always love those people with very strong and independent women and their husband say professor of literature. Okay. Youve seen this ive not seen this. But i think i said to tim when he agreed to come on to this, i said you know i think that that henry is the breakout breakout role. Because we havent seen a man who is confident enough and Strong Enough to sort of stand alongside a woman who arguably is one of the most powerful women in the world hands down. And hes doing a swimmingly good job at it. Rose it takes a special kind of man to do that doesnt it . I think so yes. Rose im sure so. Okay. Well go with that. Rose take a look at this i want to show just one example of what Elizabeth Mccord is like. Roll tape. I cant believe i missed it. You mean her betrayal. My job is to understand people. Judge what theyre capable of. My old job part of it. So you let yourself down. And my country. Have you thought about what you would say to jane if you had the chance . Oh yes. We have had many imaginary conversations that go on for hours. Mostly about why why she did it. It being classified . Highly. She didnt just betray me an her country. She hurt one of our friends horribly. Thats the part that i just cant reconcile with. Rose wow. She thats so upsetting. Rose it was good though. A downer. But thats marsha maison. Thats a hero for me. I mean i got to work with marsha maison. Rose wasnt she married to neil simon. Yes am and do you remember chapter two. Rose oh yes. That was a huge deal. Talk about a woman breaking through. She was fabulous and gorgeous and just i loved her in that. I loved her in that film. Rose lets assume you were talking about somebody who was a former agent or friend who had done something terrible and therefore, and in the process of doing something terrible and betrading her country she had also gotten someone killed is that the idea . Ness . Yes, one of our very close mutual friends. What i do like about this part of the story is that thats the humanity of this character. That she sort of says yeah she betrayed me. She betrayed her country the president. But what she did to our friend, this the fact that she is that we get to see the humanity of this woman you know. We didnt hillary and mad line and condoleezza these are women with very full lives. And we never really got to see behind the curtain. Elizabeth mccord has a very full life too. Yes, and we get to see it. And i think thats what is so entertaining that is what is real. Thats where the show is doing what i wanted it to do. How many episodes sm. We have just finished our 22nd. 22nd. Yeah, were just babies in all of this. Were sort of figuring it out and next year well come back and who knows where were going. Where are you on the schedule . Were sunday nights after 60 minutes. Thats great. Yeah. You follow us. I know. I know. Thats very good. In fact, youre between 60 and the and the good wife. Theres not a better place to be. You know that. I really want juliannea. You want to give a big kiss to for this. That was a bit of a gift for sure. I know im hoping that means they thought you had the possibility of getting legs a chance to be viewed. Yeah. And it would build an audience. Based on the writing and based on the writing and the cast and who is shined behind it i would have been really ebarrassed if it hadnt gone well. I would have taken it on completely as my fault so. Rose you didnt have guilt, do you . Guilt . Rose it is your responsibility because are you the star . Yeah yeah. Thats right . Rose i guess i guess. I mean. Rose you carry the show. Well a minute, a lot. Rose a lot. But you like that. Come on you like it. Rose you know what is funny . What . I think im in it too much. I would like to see just a little bit less of me. Like fridays off kind of lesson. Being off rather than about it would translate into less camera time. It is translate into being off rather than what you think about the show. I think less is always more. Let me do one last thing show the episode with the family so we can see how good mr. Daley is in this. Jason this is about your safety. Then i will be safe at home because im if the going. You cant spring this on me. You said i would be a normal kid aed a normal school. This isnt fair. And yet this is happening. Can we have a couple minutes, please. Of course. Grab your stuff. Just do it son. Love you. Hes right babe, it isnt fair. Liefer isnt fair. This house it is. I knew it i knew would you make me the bad guy. And then you had to pick like the biggest guy on the planet just to push all of jasons the bull ons. Okay, look i know that you have been through a lot and you dont want to talk about it. Dont psycho analyze it. Maybe that is behind your subtle we dont talk to each other that way. If you had seen what i see would you want him to have protection too. He doesnt need it so either we keep our word and let him go to School Without security or he stays home. Sotsess okay for you not to fight fair s that how we do it here s that it. On this one yeah. Were to the going to let your issues force jason to be treated unfairly. What are your issues . Are you ready to talk . Lets talk is. Fine. I dont have time for this you win okay. Within now thats a marriage how . Rose i dont think i like so you much. Come on. But we fight well. Rose dow. Its good. I like that they you know that they are going to persevere. Rose they have real people now. They have passion, feelings. Yes its complicated and three kids. Thats a lot. Rose thank you for coming. Thank you for having me. Im so happy to finally see this table. I am telled to lick my finger and use a little spit to get some of the marks off. I mean listen im all for not do you see that its coming up. Thats pen. You should just use a little something. Rose a little spit will do it. A little spit little he bo grease. Rose happy fly fishing. Thank you. Rose great to you have here. Lets go fly fishing. Lets do it. Rose thank you for joining us. For more about this program and earlier episodes visit us yen line at pbs. Org and charlie rose. Com. Captioning sponsored by Rose Communications captioned by Media Access Group at wgbh access. Wgbh. Org on the neck krlryios the most talked about pus call in income, at the Public Theater and moves to broadway later this summer. We talk to the director thomas kail and also the star and creator lyn manual moramza. You sit in a room for six years making something and you have the wildest dreams version of you had you think a show will be received. And were experiencing that. So were just trying to hang on while we can. I started writing this in 2008 while i was in high inn my show in the heights. I was on vacation pie first vacation of the show and i picked up the books at random, at borders. Just knowing that you said i will take this one. Just said it had great reviews on the back and i knew he died in a dual so i knew it would have a bang ending. And fell in love with the story really the dikenzian nature of the hamiltons life. Explain that. The place where you say dicens dicens and dicens. What was the dicensian of his life. He was born in nivez possibly out of wed lock his father split by the time he was ten years ol. His mother died in bed with him a few short years later. His brother was apprentice so he was was by himself. He got sent to live with a cousin after his mothers death. The cousin killed himself and then he got put in charge of a trading charter. He was a clerk for a Trading Company that traded sugar cane and rum and slaves there, at the key point of the triangle trade down there in st. Croixment and he wrote his way off the island. There was a hurricane that ravaged st. Croix and he wrote a poem about it describing the garnage saying that he saw sights that would strike astonishment into angels. This poem was used for relief efforts for the island and people took up a fund to get him in education in new york. Here we have a character who a great american. We know there is drama that he died at the end of a dual. At which he may not have in fact fired his gun. Lots of different there is speculation about that. So here we have that story. But you have translated into so much more. I mean tell me about the ideas that you wanted to pour into this to make it a new look at the Founding Fathers the American Experience and a different way of presenting presenting it that would appeal to young people because youre peopled by young ackers. You know, i mean you speak to what we were really conscious of. Which is how do we eliminate any distance between our story and now . We know that the story was going to be set then. But we knew what it was going to sound like now. And we knew that fundamentally this was a country that was founded and created by immigrants. Somebody in all of our lines stepped off a boat or some former transportation puts their foot down on this soil and went to work. And so as we started thinking about taking the inspiration from rons book we thought okay here are a lot of events but we have to tell a story. So we had all of the events laid out. We sort of both read the become and made our own time lines and then compare. This really spoke to me. This moment feels like its essential. So then you have those things to build around. But it became so apparent early on as we were really designing how the show could function that this idea of doubling characters, for instance, felt really right on. That the character who played la fayette one of his great friends. Also plays jefferson. Of course they both have this connection to france they both have this relationship one antagonistic, one supportive. And so how can we make the audience feel like who they are and what they understand. Its actually not so different from what these people were struggling with. Hiphop seems like a genius stroke now. But thats what you knew. Thats the first thing i checked by the way. So i read two chapters of this book and i go someone has already done a hip hop version of this. Because it felt to me the quintessential hiphop narrative this is someone without grew up in hard times and wrote his way towards a better life. And that is the hiphop narrative from the south brontions in the 70s to today. And so i googled hamilton hiphop musical. And it was not there. And it was not there. So thank god now you goog teleyou see my show but really that was the first thing that jumped out at me. Was this is this is a fundamental hiphop story. The lyrics go, i am just like my country. Im young scrappy and hungry and im not throwing away my shot. Charlie rose is rolling on everything. But you performed that. At the white house. Yeah. I performed the opening number at the white house actually. Alexander hamilton. The opening number. Before we see that. Yes. Is that what the president responded to when he said geithner should see this. Yeah i told the a essentialed auses yens this is the my first time performing the song in public. She asked me to perform something from the in heights and i said i have 16 bars about the first treasury secretary. And they allowed me to close out the show with that. And his response was somebody got to get geithner in here. Because you know. He thought of geithner as a hamilton . I think he had a quote at that time because the economic crisis had just everything had just blown up. And he said quiteners got the hardest job as treasury secretary since Alexander Hamilton. I think that was his quote on the record about what geithner had ahead of him this was very early in obamas administration. He performed in may 2009. So they were just rigging out figuring out how to do this thing. How to get us out of the hole we were in. So i think he was tickled by the fact that i made a treasury secretary sing and i wanted to show the treasury secretary. And that song was from burrs perspective. He also performed it from burrs point of view so it got a laugh about halfway through. Where did that idea come are aaron burr per specific. Is honestly i looked to musical theater history. We have a great tradition thanks to Andrew Lloydwebber of the antagonist narrating the story. Judas nar gate narrates jesus christ superstar. Cane narrates evita that set up the difficult as ifing of figuring out who aaron burr is who as we say in the show say villain in our history. But you think more of him . I do after learning a lot about his life. I have to find my way if because there are a a lot of biographies of him. Gore wrote a historical function novel. His burr is a lot craftier than mine but one of the things i learned about burr is he is an early feminist. His daughter received an education greater than any man of that error. He was very close with his wife and daughter. He was as on the many Mission Society with Alexander Hamilton for the abolition of slaves in new york state. And so there are redeeming characteristics to this guy. I will to find my way into that because every biography either is insanely definsive on them orville fews them. Funding for dharlie rose has been provided by the Cocacola Company supporting this Program Since 2002. This is nightly business report. The bulls are back, stocks it kick off this big earnings week with even bigger gain. And attention turns tonight to bluest of blue chips, ibm. And 40 of the dow jones average report results. An guxlf will never good evening everybody. Glad to be with you. Bounce back. Thats what stocks did following fridays steep decline