Litsch, real argument, real critical discourse and if you put it on paper or online or if you use a piece of charcoal to put it on the side of a rock that is the less interesting. Rose the contribution is it is what it is, it is what it is and that is what the fight was about and thats what my heartbreak was about. It is about what it is. Rose we conclude this evening with Juliano Salgado. The travels, that gets to grow up, learning a lot about the world and really open, but it is also the ideation between fact and audience whoever is going to read the newspaper, see those photos is going to see the world through his eyes and somehow is shaping, you know, the vision or the understanding you have from a fact. That is really interesting and that is something that i took on when i started doing documentary and wanted to be at that point. Rose mike allen, Leon Wieseltier and Juliano Salgado when we continue. Rose funding for charlie rose has been provided by rose additional funding provided by and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and Information Services worldwide. Captioning sponsored by Rose Communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. Rose we begin this evening with pricks, texas senator ted cruz announced he would run for president in 2016 the first high profile candidate to officially enter the race. Other republicans expected to rupp include senator rand paul and senators jeb bush and scott walker, senator cruz spoke this morning at Liberty University in virginia, the largest Christian School in the world. Manage in 2017 a new president , signing legislation repealing every word of obamacare. Mac a federal government that works to defend the sanctity of human life and to uphold the sacrament of marriage. Imagine a president who stands unapologetically with the nation of israel. Imagine a president who says we will stand up and defeat radical islamic terrorism. Rose joining me now from washington, mike allen chief White House Correspondent for politico and editor of the play book, i am pleased to have us on this program as he also appears on the week. Let me start with this note. I if es the race is beginning. They have been talking about it and we know who the candidates are going to be and we know they have been out just trying to define how they would run, looking for the narratives and trying to raise the money and figure out how the journey will take them, but we now have an official candidate. Tell me anteed cruz and what it means for him to get out front, a lot of ink today and a lot of video today. Well, charlie you are right and charlie, ted cruz surprised people today, as i talked to the other campaigns over the weekend, i think that they thought this event was going to be kind of lame you know most campaigns when they are announcing set up a very elaborate optics, for instance rand paul when he announces the week after easter, it is going to be five days, five states, including south carolina, where you will have the uss yorktown as the backdrop and patriots point as the dateline for him, thats a more traditional beginning to a campaign. Ted cruz going to a place where he didnt have to build the crowd, going a regular convocation at lint university which is just down the road from where i went to school at Washington Lee University and the convocation is actually mandatory so this is what most politicians dream of is a mandatory audience for your announcement and people on other campaigns said that is kind of low rent. But it turned out this was very effective charlie. He got as you said tons of attention. Ted cruz was kind of out of the conversation. You know, months ago there had been buzz about him and i told you, you know what . Ted cruz can win iowa and that always surprises people but it is true, and iowa has very conservative christian voters and ted cruz as we saw today is very effective at talking to Christian Conservative voters, but he get in front of this largely friendly crowd although you will see everywhere the pictures of a couple of very enterprising supporters of rand paul who got down front and stand with rand tshirts that got in the shot some time, so that photo is around, but this is a little largely supportive audience and charlie, ted cruz speaking for 25 minutes as if he is speaking to a courtroom without any notes, very focused showing why he was such a skillful arguer at the Supreme Court, and taking on issues that are very important to the audience that he is going after. He is talking to his target audience, including protecting christian congregations against lawsuits that will force their ministers to perform gay marriages and charlie, thats a pretty under the radar issue, most republicans wont touch it with a tenfoot pole but i can tell you it is a huge issue with evangelicals and a very smart under the radar issue and just an example of how ted cruz knows exactly who he is talking to. Rose i assume what he has to do is emerge as a leading conservative and therefore hope as they go down the primary road it will be a faceoff between him and perhaps jeb bush in terms of moderate versus conservative, even though jeb bush has a claim to conservativism as well in terms of his performance as governor of florida. Thats the hope of this group of people who are essentially conservative is to stay in the game . Thats exactly right. And, charlie, i predict that ted cruz will be one of the last people standing. He is an excellent communicator he is going to be a ten in these debates that are coming up and he has a real base, he has a base that is not based on momentum or the flavor of the month as some of these other candidates his people are very dedicated to him and thats going to be very important. He is not going to have as much money as jeb bush and not have the fancy advertising that jeb bush has, not the come from nowhere surprise story that scott walker is, he may not get the big establishment bump that marco rubio does. I think senator marco rubio of florida will be the next candidate to get his day in the sun, to get a fresh look, things have been kind of quiet in his camp, but national security, which is his wheelhouse is rising as an issue as we see night after night on your program, charlie, and we are going to have marco rubio and rand paul and maybe even Hillary Clinton all announce in the same week right after easter that week of monday april 6th the text day, you are going to have a rand paul announce in louisville, later that week, you are going to have marco rubio announce and either that week or the week after you are going to have Hillary Clinton, so 2016 is starting fast. Rose okay. Let me talk about some other things. Frank hunts says he has the single best sound bite over the last three years saying the big problem in washington is we dont listen so some say about him too, that message transcends ideology and partisanship because so many people in the public think washington is out of touch. There is a certain resonance about that. People, people like jeb bush is saying i want to have a conversation with the American People something that hillary did when she first ran for senate in new york. There is a sense that americans epidont believe that washington is hearing them, whether it is tea party or whether it is elizabeth warren, correct . I think that is a great point. Charlie, the question here is can ted cruz freshman senator, rookie of the United States senator and former Supreme Court advocate, can he be an outsider and so far he tapped that very well, it is a very interesting point about luntz and there was a very luntzian construct in the speech, you saw where senator cruz again and again said imagine, imagine and on the twitters they were making fun of him for in the john len than contest but that. Imagine is very luntzian so though he was with no notes this was an extremely shrewd linguistic construct. The other fascinating phrase that he used, i think is going to come up again and again is, charlie, as you heard he talked about courageous conservatives. Rose right. And of course that is just to say, that his opponents are wimps, right and he talked in the past about the mushy middle and the, in the video he announced this morning he said if you just want more of the same and that is you can fill in there another senator, another governor or jeb bush, if you want more of the same, there will be plenty of that but he said i am the, i am going the lead a new generation of courageous conservatives. So that is going to be a powerful message. Rose so take us where the race is now. Where is jeb bush . Jeb busp7zc is absolutely the far and away leader. He is the person that someone has to take out in order to be the nominee. Charlie if you and i talked a month or two ago we would have said it is wide open anybody can get this, there are a bunch of credible candidates unlike in the past, very serious people, senator marco rubio governor walker, senator cruz, but jeb bush has had such an impressive even though quiet rollout, he built this enormous staff, he has an unbelievable fundraising machine charlie, when he announces his initial fundraising which will probably be 80 to 100 million, he will have more than every other republican combined, including the top candidates like scott walker, and marco rubio, so. Jeb bush has enormous financial advantage and this is what changed going back to at least reagan, there has never been a single time that a republican has amassed establishment endorsement, buzz, money, and has not gotten it. It was first both bushes, dole, mccain, romney, every time the person who corners that establishment market gets the nomination, and so for jeb to stumble and fail, he would have to break that. So bush is mostly raising money, we dont expect governor bush to actually formally announce his campaign until summer, he may be one of the last ones. We expect scott walker, will wait until after his wisconsin legislative session is over, we expect him to go in late may to early june, so we are going to have a steady drumbeat of these candidates coming with, of course, mixed in there now toward the earlier end, the candidate who blots out the sun, Hillary Clinton debate as you and i have talked about in her campaign, do we go sooner aprilish, do we go later, julyish . The argument for waiting is narrow the window that she is actually engaged in political combat. And allow her to a be a statesman as long as she can be. But within her campaign we are told that the early argument has won. They need to raise money, they need to build numerous staff, a huge Startup Corporation she needs to get started and so that is why in the next couple of weeks we will see her also as an official candidate. Rose i assume all candidates on the republican or democratic side this year have learn the lessons of how to use the social media from obama in 2008 and obama in 2012, that are hiring people who understand as you do the digital revolution and how you can use it so well, in politics both identifying voters, getting to the polls, understanding what issues attract their vote and all of that. It is a great point. We saw ted cruz do his formal announcement on twitter shortly after midnight and posted a couple of videos, a couple of videos in spanish long before his event today, Scott Walkers Campaign knowing that there was to be more Online Activity today, granted their own digital activities to try to reach people who were out looking for information, they will wind up with walker you have a lot of candidates including rand paul who are buying google ad words so when you type in ted cruz you may also see an ad for rand paul or for another cane because they know you are curious about the republican field, so they are going to show you their message, but what really matters at this stage of the game, charlie is fundraising, and how effectively can you build an Online Fundraising machine, ted cruz has a Good Opportunity with the lower dollar givers, stalwart conservatives throughout the country, but partly because of his role in the Government Shutdown as you know, and his clashes with Senate Republican leadership he has fewer friends within the capital than maybe any other candidates. Some of the donors pulled away over the weekend, the Houston Chronicle reported he had been doing very deliberate outreach to some of those big deep pockets in houston that he may be alienate add little bit recently. He is coming back to them and saying, a second look. So at the moment, jeb bush almost all of the activity is with the fund raisers, will go to iowa, New Hampshire for a tv picture right now but right now they are trying to stockpile this money so that when all of the candidates are out there together, they will already have their lard to put away and be able to spend more time on the trail. Rose mike, thank you. Mike allen from washington. Stay with us. We continue now with part 2 of my conversation with Leon Wieseltier he the, on bring night and we talked about israel and the recent election and the future of the netanyahu government and the possibilities of a twostate solution, we now turn to where he spent his professional life at the new republic, that magazine was his life, he was a literary editor of that magazine, he was the man who gave it its cultural heart. He left the magazine in dispute with new owners and now at the Brookings Institute and also the atlantic magazine, but i begin and asked him a point i asked chris hughes the new owner of the new public magazine when he was here about a month ago, what happened . Oh oh. What happened was that the owners of the new republic, the owner of the they re new republic decided to take the magazine in a direction he believed was necessary for its survival and i believe destroyed it. That is what happened. Rose all right. That is what happened. Rose so explain to me, and then i will have a clip from him. Explain to me what the difference in where he wanted to take it and where you wanted it to be. As far as i understand what he wanted to do, he was overwhelmingly concerned for commercial reasons with the transposition of what we did on to certain technologies especially mobile, everybody has an obsession with mobile. Rose some say you need to have an obsession to survive. My position is the transition to the new technology did not affect the content of the magazines this was simply historical inevitably and would have lived with it. I am not a fool. I understand that there are technologies that reach many more people than paper did. My own view was always that just that, just because there are new bottles doesnt mean that the old wine is bad. And if we similar, it was simply a matter of pouring the old wine into new bottles that would have been fine. The idea that the invention of new bottles required the invention of new wine so that pieces on certain subjects would no longer be featured or even published, so that longer pieces of a certain kind would be ground upon, so that the kinds of essays that we used to that we ran for the entirety of our history would now but surround by all kinds of bells and whistles and more snackable things seemed wrong to me, and it was certainly not something that i could preside over or or cooperate in. You know, i think that the primary task of the serious magazines in this country is not to get clicks. It is to offer this country intellectual leadership. Rose but cant you offer intellectual leadership online . You can but thats not what was being done certainly you can. My editing days are not over. I have thoughts about starting something and if i start something obviously i am going to use the technologies, because it is nice to reach lots of people, it is nice to in fact, since this is about the formation of American Opinion the more people you reach the more influence you will have, the question is, what are you reaching them with . What are you reaching them with . And the idea that the kind of serious critical essays that didnt always get the most clicks had been made obsolete by rose now are you saying there was no part in the digital magazine that he believed in that was one to one with the future of the digital revolution, it would not be possible, it would not be possible to have thoughtful pieces . My pages were being cut. I was constantly being pressured to put shorter, cuter things in. The fact that some of the pieces i regarded as our most valuable contributions didnt do that well online seemed to weigh heavily against them, when in fact it counted for almost nothing for me because that is not how influence works. I mean if you publish something important, you send it out into the culture and you let it find its readership and it does find its readership, influence is not necessarily a quantity final thing and there isnt a metric for intellectual leadership. There just isnt. And it takes time and one needs the long view and so on. Rose okay. Let me ask you this. When he bought the magazine, he was viewed as a conquering hero, was he not . You were a huge supporter. I was a. What did you buy that made you a supporter that turned out not to be real . The magazine, the direction i was his plans for the magazine in the beginning were nothing like the a plan that i was told about near the end. Rose so his plan for the magazine, beyond whatever it was you wrote or edited, long thoughtful pieces or they wanted Something Different from you, there is a honk tradition with the new republic, he wanted to change that. Yes, and look at it, yes. I have looked at one issue and i dont intend you know, i dont intend to look at it again. I said to someone, someone asked me i said the new new republic is to the old republic texas is paris texas to paris france. Rose there was a rebellion, because an editor was fired, correct . When frank and i quit,. Rose he quit first or was fired or no, no. You know,. Rose what happened . What happened was that he discovered that they had hired another editor and they hadnt told him is what happened. Nothing like that was done to me. I made it clear when i spoke to the staff when i resigned that i was not resigning for any personal reason, nothing personally was done to me that i was resigning because i really disliked the new direction of the magazine i thought that a Cultural Institution was being vandalized and because i was horrified by the way my friend and colleague frank was treated. Rose by the fact that another editor was hired without telling him was the most egregious . Yes, that was the most egregious of things but there was a magical morning when we discovered that the magazine had two heads, i mean editors, so, you know, and i you know and again i felt for a while for some months that my conception of what the new republic has to be, which is very much linked to what it was, is not the direction which the magazine was being taken. Rose chris is not a guy who had any experience in journalism. He came out of harvard and facebook and was a friend of mark zuckerberg, correct, and had worked on the Obama Administration in their 2008 campaign. Uhhuh. Rose was there no one who had a magazine sensibility there to buy the magazine if it was for sale . I dont know how to answer that question. You know people have come to me since the catabolism and said well why didnt you ask me. Why didnt you . It is chriss magazine. Rose it is now but what about before . Couldnt you find they come to me and why didnt you let me know and rose he got rough treatment in the press, didnt he . Here is the program i did with chris hughes who came here to talk about the new republic and how he saw his future. Where leon and i did not see eye to eye is a belief that the same kind of values that he talks about in that essay, which are these humanist ideals which i think are incredibly important that we support must move into the 21st century and if we are honest with ourselves when we walk down the middle of a train or the middle of a plane or we think about how we read today, we spend an enormous time on enormous amount of time on our mobile twices, on our tablets, and on our computers and the kind of journalism that we do has to adapt to those formats. That doesnt mean we dont do long form, it doesnt mean that we stop doing criticism, we continue to do those things, in addition to that we also have to think creatively about audio, interactive graphics, timelines, different forms of pieces that dont just conform to the traditional 5,000 word prose these things tonight come at a cost and i think it is important we invest in that so the new republic is relevant to a new generation of people who will be in the corridor of powers in ten years 15, 20 years. I have nothing against audio, i have nothing against video. And it would be stupid to say i have something against the ipad or the mobile phone because that would be having something against reality. All i can tell you is that the existence that all of all of these things should not have the effect of changing the core discourse of a serious magazine. And that is what is happening. I am, not just the new republic by the way, that is not rose okay. It is not rose thats where we are in this conversation at this point. I want to get you out, you are here because you are my friend and i said that at the time i asked him and repeated the criticism with him at the time. So. Tell me what you think is at stake for american magazines and especially magazines of thought, like the new republic . I tell you what i think. I think what is at stake for for america in the future of such magazines, we are a democracy, which is to say, we are a republic of opinion, we operate according to the opinion of our citizens, that being the a case, one of the primary services that can be, need to be performed in such a society is is to attend to the quality of American Opinion, to the means for American Opinion formation. The enlightened and sophisticated and historically informed and critically minded American Opinion will be, the better our country will be. The more manipulable the more short attention spanned the more distracted, the more disengaged from serious argument American Opinion will be the less good our country is going to be. It really is that simple. Now, the new republic was not the only magazine whose role it was, whose historical calling it was to provide such intellectual leadership, and but that is actually what the historical calling of such a mag of such magazines are. It is not and again there is a reason there is a reason why these magazines generally have not shown profits, they have not prospered. Just because something has a business dimension does not mean it is essentially a business. The Smithsonian Institution has terrible problems, fiscal problems, and if someone were to buy the Smithsonian Institution and decide that they could solve all of those fiscal problems by turning it into disneyland that should not be an acceptable solution, even though it would be a solution to the financial crisis at the smithsonian. That is to say, you solve the money problem but in the process you destroy what is valuable about it. I think that people who own these magazines and, you know, bless all of the enlightened ones among them are performing a really essential service to this culture. And, you know, you can call it , i dont know, patronage, you could call it citizenship you could call it all sorts of things, but the quantification and the fiscallation of the success of such enterprises is does not give you an accurate picture of their importance. It just doesnt. Rose do you think we as a democracy are losing something because of the arrival of the internet in terms of the place that we have for ideas . I think there are gains and there are losses. I think that the reach of the internet is an unbelievable blessing when what is being brought before millions of people is something valuable. When it is garbage, then the range the reach of the internet turns out to be not such a blessing. Now, you could ask what is garbage and what isnt garbage and i will confess that is the role of gatekeepers such as myself to decide. Rose what editors do. And our reputation stands or fall as to whether our judgments of what is good or what is bad are accepted as correct or admirable. Yeah. But i think that the our basic role is one of leadership, not a follower ship. You know the problem with metrics and clicks and the quantitative analysis of success is that it turns leaders into followers. Basically, you know, it is all about it is basically all about marketing and market asking not be the whole story. Market asking not be the whole story. Rose the founding editors of the new republic wrote in 1915, at this period of wreck and ruin the one power that can save, can heal can fortify is clear and intelligent thought. Amen. Rose and you wrote at the new republic 100th anniversary we must not be a nation of intellectuals but not a nation of idiots and not to be a delinquent member of democracy. Serious magazines need to stretch their readers they have to stretch their read in other words a way that serious preachers in churches and synagogues and mosques have to stretch their parishioners, you have to you dont set out to see where they are and what candy they like to eat and give them their candy. What you do is you decide what you think are the most urgent issues facing this country, this culture and then you decide how you think those issues should be addressed, meaning not just what positions do you take but what kind of discourse do you believe is mess for making progress and understanding those issues . And you put before your readers things that they may not even have known they wanted, and if they like what you are putting before them, which is to say to intelligent readers that are out there like being treated intelligent atintelligently, then you succeed and i am not saying you succeed financially, but you succeed culturally. You succeed historically, you succeed politically. And that and thats the kind of success that should most matter to rose succeed to a degree to find some absolutely. Rose some element of sustainability. Look, you know, the thing about sustainability, it is not my money. If i had the money to buy the new republic i would have bought it myself and i am pretty sure in my own mind that whereas i would have hurt to lose more money than i would have had to lose the idea that one day i might knot lose any money at all would seem ridiculous to me. You can buy ali baba, there are many things to be done with money. Rose you can buy ali baba stock. Yes you can buy that stock and all kinds of things. Rose you need to a lot of money to buy ali baba. Yes, there are all kinds of places to put your money and this is not about chris. I am now speaking generally. Rose right. If i had bought the new republic, i am sure i would have been concerned about costs and so on but i will tell you this, i would not have bought the new republic on the assumption that one day i could turn a profit. I would not i would not have been ashamed ever if i owned something that didnt turn a profit, i do not believe that the role of money in our society is only to make more money. I would have been i would not have paid writers as little as writers are being paid now, not just at the new republic but everywhere. The writers of the new proletarians right now and this is a technology that would be nothing without content and the people who produce this content are supposed to do it for little or even nothing. There are all kinds of moral and cultural scruples that would have entered into my economic calculations but a strictly economic if all if the only kind of calculation i was prepared to make was economic, so that the prospect of losses as such horrified me so much that i would actually tamper with the core product, which is a great tradition in american life, i mean the new republic was an Important Institution in American Society and culture, if economic considerations alone would have pushed me to that point, then i shouldnt then i would have been the wrong owner. Rose what are you going to do now . Well i am going to continue to write and study the things that i study. I am going to continue to write about the collapse of our foreign policy, i am going to write more about the clash between the humanities and the social sciences and about the siege in which the humanities finds itself. Rose for the atlantic or for for the atlanticly do stuff at brookings other places. I will be writing and doing study projects and all sort of things, i have only been there ten minutes, so i mean i have just barely figured out how to use the email, in fact the email there is frightening. I am considering for the sake of convenience using a private server but i mean, but no no, the great thing about brookings and the atlantic and the reason i am so immensely greatful to them is that they asked me to come and bring my known causes and my known interests with me. You know i miss my old magazine, i was there for 33 years, the rhythms of that mooing seen were in my body and i devoted my life to it. And there came a moment when what i referred to as my magazine was no longer going to be my magazine, an i am not speaking in terms of ownership. Rose so you are going to try some new experiment . I have some thoughts about yeah, yeah, as i said, i dont think my editing days are over and i think yeah, i think about this a lot, and there is a very strong possibility that i am going to try to bring Something Back of a very try an experiment in 2015, 2016 with the revival of a classical sort of journal of ideas that will survive, if not flourish in part owing to the web. That is not happening right now, it is certainly not what was happening at the new republic and i hope it works, the country needs it, not because i am doing it but the more look, as i wrote, the more thoughtful this country is, the better a country we are going to be. It really is that simple. It really and in that sense, intellectuals, public intellectuals private intelligenceintellectuals, intellectuals are Public Servants in that sense because we are engaged in an attempt to try to improve the quality and the substance of American Opinion, which is the opinion according to which we vote for our leaders, we approve or disapprove of their policies and so on. I mean in an open society there is almost nothing more primary and thats one of the reasons that i maybe you feel this way too but you live in it more intensely than i do now, i am so sick of media and i am so sick of the media on the media, and i am so sick about of the self glorification of media i mean, most media talk is really business talk disguised as culture talk, and it is not about media, it is about real journalism, real argument real critical discourse and if you put it on paper or you put it online or if you use a piece of charcoal to put it on the side of a rock, that is is the less interesting to me. Rose the contribution is what it is. It is what it is. It is what it is. And that is what the fight was about and that is what my heartbreak was about. It is about what it is. Rose thank you for coming. Thank you my friend. Pleasure to be here. Rose come back. You know i will. Rose back in a moment stay with us. Rose the brazilian photographer Sebastiao Salgado has been called an icon of social conscience, his large scale projects tell stories of human suffering conflict and displacement. His latest photo series genesis took him to places on earth least touched by mankind his lifework ask revealed in a new documentary, it is called the salt of the earth. It is codirected by venders and the photographers son, Juliano Salgado, here is the trailer. Drawing with light, a man writing and rewriting the world with light and shadows. I first saw this picture here more than 20 years ago, what i saw profoundly moved me. The signature, Sebastiao Salgado, little did i know i was going to discover much for of him than just a photographer. In the little town in brazil got a scholarship in economics merit. On a memorable day bought a photo camera, the first picture he ever took was the two of them made a Bold Decision together. The he traveled to the four corners of the world as a social photographer and a witness of the human condition. A photograph called, brought worldwide attention to the people of africa and many other places. He was trying to shine a light on the fate of the outcast. He really cared about people. After all, people are the salt of the earth. Rose joining me now the director, Juliano Salgado, i am pleased to have him at this table for the first time welcome. Hey, how are you . Rose congratulations to you. Thank you very much. How did this begin . The love affair, isnt it . Well kind of, really, like love affair between a father and a son, you know, we have a relationship that we had to sorts, also learning how to work with one of the greatest film makers ever, you know, he was doing, you know, his part of the film, but yet he is still one of the most creative guys around so it has been amazing. Rose what started it . Sebastiao salgado is a photographer and been around for 40 years he does amazing photography, the amazing thing about Sebastiao Salgado that you is the stories, the experiences, his, he saw the world in a way that nobody else had has. There was a lot to learn from him. I contacted him, a friend of se past owe and met a few times and we had the same situation that is how it started. Did you know you really had Something Special or moments you said this is not going to be what i thought it was going to be . This is not turning out well . To be completely honest with you, i always thought the promise was great t, the story was amazing a and we had one difficulty when we are doing the film, you know, having two directors on one film, it is almost impossible. When we started you know, we filmed, we wrote the people together, we decided what was going to happen, how we are going to shoot then at some point we had to credit it and we had to be in the editing room together and it was totally impossible, so the first thing we started doing is we both edited our own sequences, then i had to go and try to put the film together. Oh boy. You know, then he is a nice guy so gentle and when he saw the edits he would start shouting in the editing room, it was so scary, it was very, very you know, it was very, very scary. Go straight on his own place and time and comes back with a result that is not so good either, so we kept passing the ball to each other for a while, you know, and there was a lot of fight involved, we both had different visions of what the film had to be. It was always a chance that we wouldnt finish the film together but at some point we did one thing that was amazing. We decided to sit together in the editing room and to accept each others presence. And plea it or not it took us a year to get to this point and then in two months the film was ready. Rose yes. He said mirroring what you just said, we realized if we both over came disdain being the sole author we could make something bigger, more than the sum of our two films. See that is interesting, more than the sum of our two films. Yeah. There is something really special about it. I think that Sebastiao Salgados story is there is Something Special amount Sebastiao Salgados experience and to manage to get to the point where the film was, you know, on the same level as, you know, what Sebastiao Salgado has to say about the photography to give clarity of Sebastiao Salgados trajectory took us a long time, it took a shape and it was very complicated. Rose salgado means salty. Yes. Why is that the title . It is not really the title it is part of the title. Actually, the salt of the earth, especially someone who has been around who has been maybe went around the world, you know, many, many times, visited almost every country that there is, you know, and the toughest places, you know, you can find, but yet the way he did the travels was always taking a lot of care to integrity great to be a part of the community, he would photograph and to be become part of whoever that group is the people. And i think people, assayed in the movie, they bring, you know, all of this flavor to the earth, and so Sebastiao Salgado is a great connoisseur of people, of humanity,. Rose thats core of his art, isnt it . I think, yes,. Rose i mean, it really is. But at the same time, it is difficult to capture beyond the art, i have interviewed so many artists and i will say who are you . And they will say, look at my heart art. Thats who i am. I am who my art is. But you want to go deeper and find more, and thats what you had to do here. Yes. We had to i took a lot of care to actually be able to listen to se at the. I know it is crazy, when you put Sebastiao Salgado in front of one of his photos he will tell you, man, the light was such and such and it was so difficult to get to this place and, they speak about them themselves. Se at the when you showed him a photo, suddenly he starts remembering the moment that is just before just after the photo, the people that are around the photo. What happened to them. And a lot of this experiences are really essentially because he is facing moments where literally people are facing death, a lot of time, and surprisingly, you know a lot of you learn from those experiences is really beautiful, there is a lot to know from humanity when it gets to those crises moments that is beautiful and humane, it is not always the case, unfortunately, but that is what we really needed to learn from Sebastiao Salgado, is all of those experiences. Rose lets take a look at some of the photographs. The first one, 1991, we saw a brief glimpse 0s of these, this is in kuwait battling a fire in an exploding fire well attacked by iraqi soldiers. Go ahead and tell me what you see. The craziest scenarios, this thing, during the daytime there is no day, the smoke is so thick that it is like nighttime and you have all of those forces and presence, water fire and people are risking their lives just for, you know, trying to sort this huge ecological problem. It is very powerful. Rose the next one is 1984 this is a camp in ethiopia. Tell me what you see here. It is difficult moment. It is very political, the starvation, the government at this time was not letting food arrive to the camps and they were utilizing the starvation to make people move away, it is a very tough one, actually. Rose and a stunning one next. Which is an image of the arctic from project genesis. It is the ice cube of god. Rose the ice cube of god. Wow, wouldnt you love to see that . Number 4, another image from genesis. This one is amazing. It is the hand of iguana. Rose iguana, right. One of those ancient warriors. Rose the hand of an iguana. The hand of an iguana, yes. Rose wow. It is crazy thats where we see we all come from the same cells and there is so much in us which is in an iguana. Rose and the next one is you filming your father photographing the tribe. Yes. The first trip we did together with the zoey tribe an amazing people that used to live as ass they used to 15,000 years ago and their relation think is mostly love, they never say no to each other and when they have an argument which is really, really rare they bring the two persons that are arguing into this place, all the tribe comes the and they can argue, and thats it, it is going to finish there. They are amazing. Rose so at the end of that time, the argument is over . Yes. And thats it. And there is almost never an argument there. Rose your father was absent a lot of times. He was, yes. Yes. That was actually, you know there are good sides and bad sides about this, the bad side of course is he was gone for a long time. You know my brother has Downs Syndrome and at home when he was small it wasnt always very easy and he was painly gone but on the other hand he came back with those stories, you know, and those experiences of what was happening out there and there was a lot to learn from him, and also very early, we had a sense that his photography had a role to play it happened for the first time in 84, during starvation in he wrote those terrible photographies of the people migrating and people going beyond, you know, their limits literally, and started appearing in the front pages of magazines, of newspapers and suddenly you could feel that, you know things were changing for him, that he had found a role for his photography, really, and for himself so you had to accept that, it was very important for him to do. Rose what is his legacy for you . I guess it is the farm somewhere in brazil, where two and a half Million Trees it would be that and also when i decided to become a documentary film maker i really, i really inspire myself from Sebastiao Salgado, he is a guy that travels, that gets to grow up learning a lot about the world and really open, but he is also an ideation inbetween fact and audience, whoever is going to read the newspaper see those photos is going to see the world through his eyes and somehow shaping the vision or the understanding you have from evidence, from fact, that is really interesting, and that is something that i took on when i started doing documentary, i wanted to be at that point of mediation, i think it is totally interesting and very political in a way that, you know, is just noble i would say. Rose take a look at this. This is from your film. With se at the recalling his experiences, photographing the, Sebastiao Salgado recalling the experiences the gold mine in 1986. Here it is. The machine,. Rose he liked to work alone. Sebastiao salgado usually works on his own and completely refused to bring anyone with him. Normally a camera man, the sound guy and an assistant to hold, you know the reflectors but here and there, completely on my own, went up to him and we arrived by, i dont know, maybe one mile away from the village we see those three guys that are working the crop, they are wearing the traditional dress, which is just a long, you know, stick that they put inside and thats all they have, and they are working there, they dont speak english or we dont speak their language, there is no way we can communicate and after ten minute, Sebastiao Salgado is friend with them and things are already happening and he is creating a bond with those guys. Who couldnt be more foreign than they were, so it is really amazing to see how he is capable of being, you know, a papu in papua or and indian when he is in india. Rose your mother is an architect but she gave that up after your brother was born with Downs Syndrome. Yes they work together, she is the one books, the exhibitions, con step july lies the work together, so they really are, you know, a very powerful couple, and now you know, they have their ecological project. Rose at the end of the film documentary return to brazil. Yes. Yes. At some point my father, in his work i told you a little bit earlier, he kept working of course for a long time but he found a way to make a difference with his photos and every time he went somewhere, there was always a reason, you know, to hope that things would get better, that there was a reason for the photo a role for the photo to play, to maybe make things better. But then he goes to rwanda and during the genocide and he hits the moment where, you know, it is literally the end of the road, there is nothing to hope from it, his photos wont make a difference, and that changed him completely. It really was a huge, huge hit for him, he couldnt take his role as a social photographer the same way anymore, because there was about function for his photo anymore. Rose he said my soul was sick. I no longer believe in anything. Yes. Yes. He was desperate. He was lost he lost his, you know, memento, and he is not here unfortunately today, he is an experienced guy and to Say Something that is really nice i like to quote. He likes saying that a man in his fifties that realizes something that he does really, really well doesnt have a point anymore, that it doesnt have a point and still doing it, but he doesnt believe in what he is doing is capable of touching that, you know, it is very courageous person it takes a lot of guts to abandon a career that is so successful because you dont believe in it anymore and thats what happened. And luckily. Rose is he at peace with that now . I think he is, yes, yes, and what he found, the transformation he went through, you know, i think it is healed completely Sebastiao Salgado. Thank you for coming. The salt of the earth is the film. Opens on march 27th. Juliano salgado, thank you for joining us, see you next time. For more about this program and early episodes visit us online at pbs. Org and charlierose. Com. Captioning sponsored by Rose Communications captioned by Media Access Group at wgbh access. Wgbh. Org this is nightly Business Report, with Tyler Mathisen and sue herera. Mark why your calendar the second in command at the federal reserve, yes, you could expect a rate hike this year. Tense talks between germany and greece with little sign of progress as reports surface that greece will soon run out of money. And startling statistics how did the American Retirement crisis and it is that get so bad . And can anything be done . All that and more tonight on nightly Business Report fo good evening, everyone. Investors have been hanging on the federal reserves every word. The second in command reiterated that the fed is on track to raise