Transcripts For KQED Charlie Rose 20140426

Can for those players, the people i work with, the university and the state that i represent, thats who i work with and thats who i care about. If someone has had dinner with me and been to my company and friend and say, hes not a good guy, then ive got a problem. Short of that, i walk on. Charlie vox media and John Calipari, when we continue. Theres a saying around here you stand behind what you say. Around here, we dont make excuses, we make commitments. And when you cant live up to them, you own up and make it right. Some people think the kind of accountability that thrives on so many streets in this country has gone missing in the places where its needed most. But i know youll still find it, when you know where to look. Captioning sponsored by Rose Communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. Charlie vox. Com is one of the latest digital news sites to challenge traditional media. This site launched earlier this month to build a news property for the digital age. Ezra klein is the editorinchief of vox. Com and the founder of the blog and in 2012 named one of the 50 most powerful people in washington by g. Q. Magazine. Jim bankoff is the c. E. O. Of vox media the Parent Company of vox. Com. Welcome. How and why did this happen . It happened because i have been frightened about american politics and policy for about ten years. Particularly what you learn when youre doing the policy side, obamacare, the financial crisis, the hard, complicated stuff is that we are not well set up to guide readers for the stories. We start covering Something Like obamacare way before anyone in the world has actually heard about it. By the ti people begin tuning in, weve long ago gone through the basics. Now were on little bitty pieces folks in washington are fighting over. So th idea is what if we could create a news site that over say five years of covering Something Like obamacare didnt just give you 5,000 articles about obamacare but gave you a resource to guide you through story from beginning to end so that no matter when you began pang attention you had the information in front of you to understand it. The insight behind it is the problem previously was technological. Print was not have a lot of room to. Print one thing, you have to leave out something else. But the internet has plenty of room. So if we could create a new Publishing Technology and a journalistic work on top of it, we have plenty of space to create the kind of resource we always wanted as writers. And vox media had something close to that Publishing Technology and the product talent to build snit who noticed who first . We came together, coincidentally, right about the same time. I think our head of Product Technology was at a conference with ezra. Ezra heard him speak and i think he described it as, oh, my goodness, either i join these guys or compete against them and we wound up coming together. Charlie you said an interesting thing. Tell me if im right about. This you said theyre already using the technology that were working on. Yeah. Charlie so you knew they had something that they knew what they were doing. I was at this conference about media and i had this idea in my head before wed gone public with it at all. I heard trey, head of product at vox, talking about things they invented. I remember in every room trey was, i wouldnt speak anymore because ias worried if i said anything more, they could execute on it so quickly there would be no room to do it later. So i left that conference terrified of this company. I hadnt really known very much about vox media. A couple of months later we hooked up and there was a very easy marriage there. Charlie kenny who is a successful entrepreneur on a program we taped with his son earlier said to me so many startups have an idea but no technology and thats a central flaw. In media in particular its taken for granted. In any industry, whether energy or healthcare, education, theyve all been transformed, all industry is being transformed by technology. When it comes to media, we look at certain platforms. Netflix, amazon is a great example. But media creation, technology has been by and large marginalized. I think theres a historical legacy of let the i. T. Guys build it as opposed to lets be a product and technologydriven organization. Charlie so, in fact, whats not happening simply is that the tech guys are simply publishing what the creators give them. Thats exactly right. I think we have been through a few phases. The first phase was Great Companies with great brand names putting their content on the web whether video or text content, putting observe the web and expecting Great Results and they were burned by that. Thats where we hear about digital dollars turning into dimes and all that. And then next the day came when the pendulum swung and you got a lot of lowvalue content. This was a slide show, popup, content farms and crowd source model where consumers were conditions to have low expectations of their web content. It was lousy, honestly, and the the advertising along with it was also lousy. Now were entering a third phase where great new brands are created with quality, web journalists with great design and utility. Charlie how did you come to form vox media . It started out as a sports site. Charlie it was sb nation. And sb nation is still one to have the Fastest Growing parts for contacts. We have seven different brands we run. An oakland as fan got fed up with the giants coverage in his own town and started athletic nation which is still around and doing everything today. Billy dean at the time money ball was coming on, billy dean became a fan of the site. Fast forward, we have about 320 individual team and sports topic communities. But it was this underlying publishing platform which allowed us to publish in realtime. Take advantage of where we saw media going, which was more social and conversational in nature, more realtime, of course, and more topical. There are a lot of great portals, but with portals, when youre general, you cant necessarily command authority in any given area, so we wanted to be more verticalizedn nature and that worked well for us. Did well in sports and decided to launch into technology as our second one. Weve created a site called the verge sh manages. Charlie what is that . A site that focuses ton intersection of technology and culture and as i said technology has an impact on everything today from art, literature, science, et cetera. So the verge looks at the world through the lens of technology and, as a result, has taken off and is doing extraordinarily well and rose to the top of a lot of older brands that had been around for a while with its fresh approach. Charlie brands like what . You know, brands like we respect like wired or tech crunch. Charlie i was thinking of tech crunch. All sites are gre in their own right but we took a forwardlooking design and content strategy and the audience ate it up and it continues to grow. Rlie whats the key do design . Its not about healthcare laughter the answer is not just really good designers but a good platform. Charlie i mean, obviously, thats true, but im asking, again, what design works . Is there a sense that, you know, if you can have somebody that can give you some variation of this, then thats where you have to go designwise. When i was trying to figure out where to go, so one of my cofounders was named melissa bell who is sort of the lead on Product Design and things like that from vox. Com and our theory on it was that there were four pieces to what we were doing. There was the editorialiece, the building of tundz lining Publishing Technology, the design and then the business. And if any one of the four wasnt there, the whole thing would fail. Charlie so busine design, technology and editorial. And the thing about design, the reason why i hesitate is i do not have design sense, so it was not a problem i was going to be able to solve. The folks we work with are unbelievable. And t thing was, the product people design, people think, how pretty is it going to be. Charlie what is it beyond pretty . What theyve talked about is using experience. I think this is an important distinction to make. So on the editorial side, the idea was we could somehow give people a range of information that went from the specific article that they had come to us for or saw from the home page or saw on twitter, and then also an trine into all kinds of different information about the topics, such as they could go exactly as deep as they wanted to go. When you have that much information, the experienced user, how intuitive it is to find that information, how overwhelmed they get or not, how easy it is to take the information and bring it somewhere else in their life like email or facebook, that experience decides whether or not that information is just words on the internet or actually is a service youre providing people. If you dont Pay Attention to design, the whole thing fails. And then you apply it across mobile and tablets and desktop and you have to make it all work and i think simply put were conditioned to think of our phones as beautifully and elegantly designed devices. Apple mas conditioned us and many others to think that way. But when you thought of web sites, you didnt really think about things that were beautifully designed and utilitarian at the same time. So weve put a lot of effort into that. We test and refine and were not afraid to be bold. We wanted to work and be you utilitarian. You see things erdesigned observe the web and pretty for the sake of pretty. But the web had become a little overoptimized. When you a b test you wind up in the same place. A lot of other web sites look at the same place where you see a lot of stuff crammed into the right rail of the web site. Thats where we put all the other stuff. And everyone is, like, thats the way we do it, those are best practices. We werent afraid to just blow it up, talk to our audience, analyze the data but be bold at where were going. Charlie when you look at new opportunities like ezra, what are you looking for . What is it that they have to do to ring your bell . We have a strong belief that vox at vox media theres a new breed of talent, a new class of Story Tellers that grew up on the web as web natives. In Silicon Valley were part technology, part storytelling. In the technology culture, you have theulture of the hacker, and this is a person who never asks permission to create a web site or create a web application and they just did it at home. Mark zuckerberg, i think, is the prince of the hackers, right . Well, in media now, its the same way, when i was younger, you had to fight for that school paper job just to get yourself published and then let alone if you wanted to be a professional at this, you really had to have some connections and hope your talent would take you far. Obviously, thats all changed now. We all have access to open platforms. We can create a blog on word press, create video on youtube, and talent can try things out, experiment, and 99. 9 isnt going to be professional grade but there is going to be professional grade coming out of it. There are going to be stars that rise whether a woman like amanda clute or Melissa Belle or josh, we look for those media hackers, people who understand how to create audience for this media. Charlie did you learn on your own . Yeah, i applied to the santa cruz student newspaper, i went to college at santa cruz uc. And i got rejected by the newspaper. I started a blog and thought, well, ill spend more time on that. I thought if i had gotten into the newspaper, it could have gone a lot worse because i would have learned a set of skills, while valuable and important, were not where the industry was actually going. So my own blog, i began in march of 2003. And its the politics blog. Utterly uninformed, just whatever the college kid charlie i remember every time youve ever been on the show you were just a great guest. Why, thank you. Cc lie we knew you could deliver. It would be an interesting point of view and especially about healthcare. Beyond healthcare, where is your core competence in terms of editorial . In terms of editorial as a writer my core competence is generally policy. Charlie right. The different kind of learning i did on my site was, okay, if youre going to come o the media, which i had not intended to do, but if youre going to end up in media doing a blog as an amateur, youre not going to get your calls returned by congressmen or people in the white house, so you have to learn about politics a different way. You have to figure out something that gives you the information to deliver value to your audience that is not simply and the direction i went was reading papers from think tanks and academic research. Academics and think tanks are open talking even to people without a huge platform. It gave me on the research end to dive deep and get into a kind of information that frankly a lot of professional journals didnt want to take the time to do because it can be dull and complicated. The other side is the great thing about doing policy online is because you dont h the space limitations you can go very deep into very esoteric topics that would never get a huge audience or make it into a paper or a magazine or tv show. Charlie however. But because it doesnt bother your audience, you get the learning and every time youre dealing with that issue youre more grounded. But the separate editorial skills i have is i spent the last couple of years at the Washington Post running a blog and writing there and associated published site switch and no more which was a more socially driven site. And ive had data experience trying to build on my product and trying to understand who is your audience and what do you need to do to serve them because, ultimately, if youre going to compete online because a fundamental difference between the web and print isnt Just Technology but how competitive it is, how many other options people have you really need to be delivering a service other people are not delivering because there is almost no way in a world that has a new yorker and the washinn post and the New York Times and these incredible organizations that you going to be so much smarter, such better writers that you will be able to compete on raw time. You need to find a service and that service was policy and here we think the value is a mixture of explanatory technology and editorial missi. Charlie but you also believe i mean, i believe theres no offer the Washington Post could have made that would have been more attractive to you than doing what you did, or could they have made some promise that would have made you stay there. I mean, you liked the Washington Post. You said nothing but good things about them on the departure, as you have described why, but i question whether someone like this might have the same gene he has to go, you know, to be entrepreneurial. I think you do not underestimate an organization run by jeff for its capacity to be incredibly entrepreneurial. I adore the post. Its an incredible organization. I think the decision the post made was to focus itself on the Washington Post and i felt this particular product needed to be itself, its own thing. So i have no doubt the post can run Amazing Products as they do every sine day. Charlie thats not my question. My question is did they have something that they could have promised you that would have made you stay . What didnt theave in their promise that would have compelled you to stay . I dont go super deep into Washington Post sphoo because im not asking for negatives, just truth. You already touched on things like, you know, aechnology a particular technology and a particular approach to design. It was already built up that we had. You know, and the post is capable of building up. We had it and we were ready to go with it. We launched our site within six weeks and it will never be a finished product as most great web sites arent but we were ready to go and had a lotto assets a lot of assets. As vox media, we have the seven brands. What were trying to do are create nextgeneration brands in the sense that, you know, there were magazines and you go to the magazine rack and see big categories news, sports, home, food, turn on your cable channel, you flip through, see big categories, news, sports, home, food. And on the web we want to be that company that creates the leading media brands for a generati of consumers that have grown up expressing a preference to consume digitally, to consume via the web, via mobile, and every ounce of our being and organization is consumed with that. We wake up in the morning with no distractions, no Business Model distractions, no creative distractions, and, you know, focus is a big part of being successful in any endeavor, of course, and were able to focus on that. Charlie did you say theres a condescension towards providing simple information . Yes, and there is in the media broadly. This was in response to new york magazine. In many of our explainers, well ben an explainer about, say, the crisis in the ukraine with a question what is the ukraine or what is ukraine because the question is whether the article is really contested, or explain about medical marijuana laws, what is marijuana, and you get some pushback from the media because it feels simple. Charlie youll never get it from me. Glad to hear that. Charlie no, but i also believe in digging as deep as you possibly can but just a simple question, why did you do that, or the simple informational question is what follows tablets, Something Like that, you know. Very simple questions. There is a huge need for it. There are two things that i think are problems in the media around this kind of thing. One is that the media writes for itself too often and trying to impress the peer group. So you have a lot of desire to be both on the analytical or reporting end, on the cutting edge of the conversation, youre trying to be competitive to a scoop that would come out anyway, or in the inside youre tryincome up with an idea on the leading edge of the conversation that none of your competitors have. Meanwhile your readership has not read everything. They are not like you a professional media consumer. So by always being on the upleading edge, youre leaving them behind. Also a bit of an issue, my mother always quoted to me a quote from eric sefrod phonetic in his signoff where he said we always try never to underestimate the audiences intelligence nor overestimate their information. Charlie i believe in that totally. I think we often do both. We underestimate their intelligence, how much they want to know, how curious they are about hard issues. Policy wasnt just vegetables of journals and its something people wanted if y put in the work to make it readable to them. Secondly, you need to give folks the actual information they need to understand what youre talking about and that often means during the beginning. So when i hear folks laugh at a part of the site that begins really at the beginning of something, im just thrilled because that to me shows how wide open that space is. Charlie no, i totally agree, dont you . I do. Whats interesting is, after they get through the first part, ive had experts you asked about design, and one of our design features is a metaphor of a card stack. Charlie index cards. Thats right, preparing you for a topic or helping you consume information and this is a design metaphor that works particularly well on mobile where you can ben your phone and swipe through from one set of explanations to the next. As ezra was saying, usually the first card in the series, anywhere from five toen cards, is very basic, what is obamacare. As you go through its a little more detailed, always easy to understand. While the first card for people who are experts might be something thats evident, as you go through each one, ive had a lot of experts on say a topic like jerr gerrymandering sayingw something come through there, i do this for a living and i learned something. Charlie people like to learn new things. Its a currency,oo. Charlie it is currency. In the share economy, its something that people like to share. I learn this and i want to express that i learned this. So its helpful in that regard, too. Charlie my friend david karr has several things to say about you, as you know. Kleins change of address could be read as the latest parable of cluelessness, journalists coming back to haunt them or cashing in on namebrand success, but it is more complicated than that. David is a smart man. Charlie he said mr. Klein is not running away something. He is going toward something else. This has been a great frustration about the way a lot of this has been played that there is some negative judgment rendered on the Washington Post. The Washington Post is just one. It is a generally incredible organization. This was just a different idea. What it required was if youre a large newspaper or magazine that has a good web site, you actually need a publishing system that provides a number of different solutions, that integrates Different Things including how to move things from print to digital and back from bingl digital to print. You have Publishing Systems that are good at what they do in that world, and the thing we needed to do is create a quite vast amount of information that would not go bad, that was easy to update and make permanent and make it easy for reporters to go back to that could be attached to other pieces of information. That was optimizing your technology with something entirely different. What david was saying and what we were running towards is this idea there was Something Different we could do, not necessarily better, just different, and i think needed that other kinds of technology that vox media, actually, had the technology to do. Charlie but do the people who are creating the product know more about technology than editorial con snent. You know, its a Perfect Question because it requires a multidisciplinary approach, and our platorm is called chorus. We get a lot of kudos for it. Someone said is chorus a unicorn with a pink ribbon that drats kratz magical content . Of course not. It takes experts that know how to work the web. But technology can assist the storytelling process. Our technology is developed by people who listen and collaborate to develop the best systems for helping and assisting storytelling, distribution and consumption of digital media. And thats the magic of it is understanding it. Ezras great, as david karr pointed out. Theres a whole class o talent. We try to get as many as we can. We dont get them all. Theyre people to understand digital and create stories for this medium first and foremost and in their cases are talented across other mediums. Whether spencer hall who is the preeminent football voice or Izzy Greenspan who understands fashion and detail better than anyone, were looking for the next generation that prefer to tell stories on the web and every day we think about how do we enable them, their audiences and our advertisers. Charlie when you think about the people that are leading, does this in a sense make these institutions lesser . I mean, if theyre losing so many good people in the digital sphere . I havent thought about it. Its hard to point to any one of these great institutions that still create incredible products and think of them lesser. I tend to think of our products as targeting a class of audience that just really prefe to consume digitally. The New York Times is doing incredible work digitally as well, so there are older media organizations that get it and execute on it very well not all of them do, to be frank. There are some that are afraid because theyve lost money on it in the past for whatever reason, but there are many who do get it and theyre competitors of ours and were inspired by them and hopefully they by us. Charlie two questions about where you came from, the Washington Post. One of the things i love that fits into the question of simple curiosity is whoever does five myths about something, you know, that whole thing, because you look at Something Like obamacare, they say five myths about obamacare, and you will see new information that you havent thought about but that has become myths about part of the conventional wisdom. Number two, what do you think jeff basos will do . What imprint will he have on the Washington Post . Id be fascinated to know. When it gets talked about publicly, there can be a cult of the billionaire, notust with the Washington Post, but anytime any charismatic millionaire or billionaire takes over any beloved institutions and the question is people ask what will jeff do . And the answer is, i think, probably, there is a really talented Editorial Team and product team and other kinds of teams at the post and hes going to give them for a while the resources and the autonomy to execute on their vision, right . Its not that jeff is going to come in and tell the executive effort e editor heres how you do it. Jeff will help marty and the rest of the Leadership Team out. So i think sometimes people have the image of the way it will work out that whoever owns it if theyve heard of them will sit in the back room and come up with a great plan. But theyre really good people, these organizations. Charlie jeff will be listening for a while . He will, but executions for him as jim, this is how jim would describe he did with vox media, is empowering good people, giving them the resources and space and protection and the time to push the post or any other institution like this forward. Charlie good to have you here. Thank you. Charlie great to have you. Thanks. Charlie John Calipari is here. Hes the head basketball coach at the university of kentucky. He arrived in lexington in 2009 after building programs from the ground up at the universi of massachusetts and the university of memphis, kentuckys vaccines culminated in an improbable run through the ncaa tournament to the championship where they lost to the yvrt of connecticut. He writes about his philosophy and much more in players first, coaching from the inside out. I am pleased to have him at this table for the first time. Welcome. I feel like i made it i got to the table charlie thank you very much. The table, on behalf of the table, i say thank you laughter the table says we dont speak, we just do. Im glad to have you. Im a huge basketball fan, as you know. A duke basketball fan. Charlie thats right. Its blue charlie we didnt do so well in the ncaa this year but we got a very good recruiting vaccines coming next year, im told. You would know better than me. Very good recruiting class, those ready. Charlie what is it about you and mike and michigan, louisville . I mean, youuild programs. You dont build teams. You build programs. Well, the program at kentucky started in the 30s with a guy named Adolph Charlie yes, i know. And its amazing that the foundation that he set still stands today. True leaders, i my mind, build something, and when they leave, it continues. And thats what he did. So walking in to kentucky is like nothing ive ever done. Ive had to build massachusetts and rebuild. I walked in there. Now, the program was down, but it was kentucky. Charli they had a fan base. Wow. And you didnt have to sell a ticket. You didnt have to get people excited about basketball. Charlie you didnt have to tell anybody who you were. And they watched the tapes more than i watched the tapes. Charlie oh, yeah, you mean the fans. Yeah, theyll watch it three times. Ill watch it once or twice. Charlie yeah. But, again, what were doing and what i talk about in players first, the players havent changed. The clutter around them has changed. The environments have changed in that they now have choices after a year of going to college, where kids stayed four years. Now its how do you deal with this. And i think harlie do you look at the reality of that and say, okay, thats the reality i have to deal with . The best players in the country are going to go to college for one year. Not all of them, butost of them. Charlie le exactly, not all of them. Yeah. Charlie but the majority of the first and secondround choices are freshmen. Its crazy. The league, the nba is getting younger. They need to change the rules to two years, but thats another point. But heres the issue for me if i recruit good players, i have to give them the information that lead them to make the best decision for themselves. They have to trust me. If i wanted to be a team in the season, to give up, to sacrifice, to do more for your team than yourself, for them to say, you have t have my back, coach, im going to worry about everybody else, you have to worry about me. When the season ends, you have to give them the information and if that leads them to make a decision to go to the pros, you have to be happy for them and their family. Its not what i want, but ill deal with whats left. Charlie you tell them that when youre recruiting them . You say, i prefer you to stay four years, get an education and a degree. Dont view me as just somebody who wants to come in here, take you for a year, exploit your talent, do Something Big for me and the university pays my salary. I want you to come in and get an education and play basketball. I say if you only stay one or two years, will you commit to your family that you will come back and get your degree . They all say yes. Charlie do they . Ive only been there five years. Charlie john wall. John wall has not, but john wall is just becoming is player he wants. John wall got a max contract and gave a Million Dollars to charity right away and so did the marcus cousins. So theyve learned something from us. But i really predict, of the guys that went after one year, half of them will begin to come back. I think brandon knight, theres no question will come back and finish up. He stayed one year. But heres what i tell these kids. Dont come in here thinking youre staying one year. You plan on two or three or four. If something happens and youre good enough after one, ill support you. I am not going to use you. I want you to use me. I dont want thisamily to think im using i dont need to use children. You use me for everyttkr÷ i know, everybody i know, everywhere i have been, you e me, and thats kind of what we go in with. We dont even talk nba, but they know, if you go there and youre good enough, he wont hold you back. Charlie what do you teach . Life skills. Servant leadership. Do you know how hard it is teaching Servant Leadership in a short period when a young man and all the other guys came in with him and they were the center of attention their whole lives. Charlie since they were 8 or 10 . Since they could think. Charlie right. They were that. So now they were on a High School Team they shot every ball theyre coming with me and then in six months, in two years, im trying to get them to understand, when you make life about yourself, very difficult. Very lonely, very hard. When you make life about everyone else, life becomes easy, and thats the game of basketball. When you want it to be all about you, its very difficult and very lonely. So now you look at my team. My team that won the National Title, Anthony Davis, michael kidd, gilchrist, one, two pick in the draft. They took the fourth and fifth shots on my team. They understood Servant Leadership and they were young. To say you cant teach that when theyre young, yes, you can. You can teach them. Spending two minutes with a child, with a grandmother, someone from the hills of pikeville to come in and two minutes, you just made them for six months. Money has wings. If you chase money, you never really ged it. You chase excellence, money follows. I give them a money talk when they decide to go to the nba. First million, charlie, tell them to put it away. Dont worry abo buying watches, cars. Your first Million Dollars, you put it in the bank, leave it there, seven years it doubles. All of a sudden, if it goes south, you can live the rest of your life on what comes out of that 2 million. Dollar lot of things we try to teach but its all speeded up. Charlie ow many accept what youre teaching . Michael gilchrists mom called me and said he listened to everything you said about the money talk. I have it with all of them before they leave. John wall and Demarcus Cousins gives a million to charity, they were list upping. We raised money for haiti and sandy victims, they were part of it. They were part of the fundraising and they see, wow, i can have an impact for other people . Yes. Understand fame is fleeting and money has wings. So there is more and theyll tell you, what we try to do is teach more than basketball, were teaching life skills. Charlie when you say players first, what do you mean . Well, everyecision i make is based on is this right for them. Ill give you an example. When i went to all the players on this team and said would you like me to call an nba team or nba teams to check on you . Yes. Then they get the information and i tell them, you know i want to coach you, but i also know you have dreams and aspirations. Ill spupt you. But you make this decision for you. During the vaccines, its all about the team. Its all about brotherhood, its all about sacrifice. When the season ends, no more games, its about you. This program is going to be here 50 years from now whether you make a decision to leave or go. This school, this state, everything is fine, if you choose to leave or come back, this program will be here. Do whats right for you. Charlie what happened this year to your team . Low start . Everybody thought you were going to be just killer. We all did. I probably got intoxicated by it. I think again, i needed to develop roles faster than i did. I think i read the hype and didnt want to step in. I needed them to fail fast so i could see what they were and what they wert. But no ones ever attempted to do what we did. Start a freshman, win a National Title. Two more freshmen come off the bench . Seven freshmen and a sophomore . What . But woke up one day and thought, how am i going to help an drew. The tweak that you all heard about was me getting with andrew, getting him to watch a tape of deron williams, telling him play like that, then going to practice next week and telling him dont shoot any balls, create for us. It changed our team. Thats on me. I poll eyes to him and the team. Charlie should have done it earlier. Why didnt i . Dont have the answer. Charlie does it take time inevitably for five freshmen to bond together so they understand each other . Yeah. Charlie in other words, its simply a matter of time. You cant step steps. Theres a process. We talk about the process in the book and different years. Ill give you an example of the process as youre going. I talk in this thing about us playing vanderbilt in 2012. We were the best team in the country. Michael gilchrist comes in before the championship game to have the sec and says start Darius Miller in my place. Really . Why . Michael, its 30 minutes before the game. He said, youre killing him. Hes not playing well, and we cannot win the National Title without him. I said, wow. Charlie would give him confidence. Right. He took 17 shots in the fame, Darius Miller, which means we werent going to win, which we didnt. Michael got in foul trouble because he wasnt used to coming off the bench. That moment we won the National Title because Darius Miller from that moment on knew his teammates and staff believed in him and we all were rooting for him to do well. From that point on he played well enough for us to win the National Title. Thats part of Servant Leadership. Are you willing to step back so someone can step forward . Thats the things were trying to teach. Charlie tell me the five most important things a coach does during the game. Well, during the game, there is managing substitutions. Charlie right. I like it when the players sub themselves. Charlie they come over and say, coach raise your fist, get me out. When you take yourself out, i let you go back in. The second thing flow of the game, in my opinion. When we played louisville, i had to stop the game at different points and people are, like, why is he stopping it . Because my team was scared and we had to stop. You stop the game to stop runs. I think the other thing is, as a head coach, being able to feel where is this thing going and how do i make it go a different way, whether playing or trapping, those are the most important things. And the biggest thing of all is your players have to know you believe, even if youre being hard. They still know youre believing. You cannot cheer lack of effort. You cant. You cant cheer a player whos not focused and breaking down all the plays. You cant cheer him. You cant cheer a guy playing with absolutely no intensity or selfish or bad body language. That stuff has to be aggressively dealt with. But even through all that they have to know i believe in you and im here and were going to do fine. Keep playing. Just keep playing. You have to be there, especially for the kids. I coach them, theyre 18 and 19 years old. Charlie tell me what the best youve ever seen have, these young men . They have a certain drive beyond the norm. Charlie thats what im interested in. They certainly have larger skills, but their whole there is a whole subset that have larger skills. Yes. Charlie those that have larger skills, what separates them is the drive, the heart, the will. You know where i think it comes from . Charlie mothers. How about fear that theyre not quite good enough. Charlie really . The best players ive coached had this thought im not as good as everybody thinks. Charlie adults have that fear, too. And it drives them. I can think of a derrick rose that would be in the gym five hours. Tyreek evans sleeping in a practice chair because he didnt want to walk across the street and he got done working out and class was in the morning and hed leave from there. I can see Anthony Davis or brandon knight, 11 00 at night, i come back from recruiting, pull in my office, i look out the window, the practice facility is there. What are you doing . He said i had a calculus test and couldnt come over so i wanted to come over tonight. That driveway is a lot of times a fear that im not good enough, a fear that someones getting better, and if its channeled the right way, its not all bad. Charlie it also can be a fear that, unless i do this i want to n so bad that the taste of victory is so good. Well, those guys, ill tell you what happens, charlie, they work so hard they never rrender. They may lose but theyve invested too much that they just wont surrender. Like this team this team, the first thing they had to learn is how to work. When they got that, we could start working on the other stuff. By the end of the year, they invested so much they just wouldnt lose a game. It was, like, what is going on . Charlie if a kid comes to you and cant shoot freethrows they all seem to come to me. Thats why we lose games. I dont understand it. Charlie i know. You get all the nonfreethrow shooters k. You teach a kid who has a good game to be a freethrow shooter . Well, if they have huge hands like shaq, its really hard. Its like youre shooting like this. You really its really tough. But the normal player, the last thing the nba worries about, if its mechanically right, theyre fine. Ill give you an example. Charlie an nba team will want to make sure that the player has the right mechanics. Hes right mechanically. Charlie as the ball leaves his hand. And does he follow through, when they look, theyll know hes mechanically okay. It means he has to get in the gym. Nba players always, if mechanically correct tracy grady i worked him out for the nets three times. He couldnt make a threat, a 15footer. Five years in the nba, not only an allstar, he never missed. Charlie he had the right everything was connected. Charlie what happened . They get in the gym and go three a day. Michael wasnt great at the beginning, neither was larry or magic. You can go right dthe line. Charlie michael didnt make the team when he was a sophomore in high school. He got cut. But those guys are driven. They said larry bird would come out two hours before the game and get the managers to rebound for him. Shooting is the last thing that they will judge you on. If you cant shoot because of the memics, it may affect the mechanics, it may help them. They want to know can he play. Some, thats what they do. Thats their skill. So theyre looking at you, youre passing, dribbling, your defense, rebound no, you make shots for us. Im talking a normal basketball player thats, you know, wellrounded in a lot of ways, shooting is not the first thing they look at. Charlie who had the best shot youve ever seen . Well charlie in the pros or in college . You know, the pure charlie ray allen . Kyle corver can really shoot. Curly can really shoot. Charlie your father had something to do with that . A little bit. J. J. Could really shoot, and there are other guys. But that can get you in the league. But i really charlie it doesnt make you a superstar. You have to have the other parts of your game. Charlie so here you are, having a very successful year, almost went all the way, ncaa finals, and theres talk about, you know, phil jackson might want you to come to the knicks, columnists say that out of their own aspiration. What circumstances would cause you to leave a storiyed program to go back to the pros . What we really need is this to go to two years. So College Students charlie you dont want to stay unless it goes to two years . I know i cant do this five or eight more years the way im doing it which is every year a new team. Charlie yeah. The recruiting cycle for me is not like everybody else. Were investigate recruit a new team every year, not every third year. Charlie because you will lose them every year. Every year. My option is trying to tell kids to stay that should leave. Well, ive g to live with myself. Im not going to use young people for my own benefit. So now i say if it goes to two years, 20year rule, this is charlie two years meaning you have to stay two years and cant play till youre 20 . Yes. Now all of a sudden i get kids two years, none of us are so pressed. Charlie why dont they do it . The owners need to get with the association. Charlie they could do it. They could, i think it will be done, and i hope sooner than later. I think the n has to get in and be a part of this. If we have kids stay two years, we dont want them starving at night because they dont have enough to eat. Charlie a question about you given the same quality players, does John Calipari believe he can get as good as result nays other coach around . Given the same level of skill of your players, that you can do with those players as good as any other coach in the College Ranks . Well, there are plenty i would tell you that im confident i can get young people together as a team. Probably no more confident than other coaches, but i would tell you this, if im doing my job right, i want my team to have more fun than anybody. And i have been there. Its not life or death for me. If it is life or death, you die all the time. So im trying to get players, to focus on them. If i focus on them, my life becomes easier. We learned Willie Collie is going to come back. Thats like an upset for us. Willie collie was o of our best players last year, got hurt in a louisville game, 7, athletic, all this. Today he says, im coming back for my junior year. Very unusual for us. Am i happy . Im doing back flips, but, again, he made the decision and wasnt influenced by anybody. Charlie did it bother you when some people would write, john is a great recruiter, we dont know whether hes a great coach or not . I didnt hear a lot of it, but if it is said charlie but, you know but let me tell you what the next turn of that was, people were also saying, you know, he knows basketball, hes good. It went in that cycle. Even though you had built programs at massachusetts. Well, heres what theyre saying, though, and why if thats what they choose to say, im okay. Hes got really good players. Look how good his players are. He needs to be a good coach. Then ive done my job. Its about them. If yant to say promote my players at my expense, im okay. My life has been good. You know, would i rather them say that hes got really good players and he really coaches them and they come together . I would. But you know what . None of us can worry about people who, one, have never had a meal with us, whoveever sat down with us and who are fans of other programs and not yours. All i do is the best job i can for those players, for the people that i work for, the university, the state that i represent, thats who i work with and thats who i care about. If someone is at dinner with me and been in my company or my friend and says, hes not a good guy, well, then ive got a problem. Short of that, i walk on. Charlie a great vaccines. Thank you for coming, pleasure to have you here. And the table i made the table charlie the book players first, coaching from the inside out. John calipari. Written with michael sokalov. Good luck next vaccines. Beat everybody but duke. Thank you for joining us. See you next time. Captioning sponsored by Rose Communications captioned by Media Access Group at wgbh access. Wgbh. Org this is nightly Business Report with Tyler Mathisen and susie gharib. Brought to you in part by thestreet. Com, featuring stephanie link who shares her Investment Strategy and stock picks, and the multi Million Dollar portfolio she manages with jim cramer, you can learn more are at the thestreet. Com. And on edge, the dow closes with a triple digit loss as tensions over ukraine rise and earnings disappoint. What should investors expect in the days and weeks ahead. And shares drop hard as investors take a closer look at the earnings outcome. What wall street is telling the ceo, but is he listening . And stock in reverse, fords profits drop, so es