Transcripts For KQED Charlie Rose 20131221

Good four, little man. The show goes on. Theyre going to need to send in the National Guard to take me out because i aint going nowhere. This movie is about some of the worst people in the world, probably a lot of the reason for the downfall of our economy. Thats right. And our personal morals and everything. And you know, but it really is about these guys who really, you know, get went up in the wrong things, in excess and greed, kind of like a modern day call ig you la. Rose tom donilon, jonah hill when we return. Funding for charlie rose was provided by the following and american express. Additional funding provided by these funders and by bloomberg, a provide other of multimedia news and captioning sponsored by Rose Communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. Tom donilon is here, he served as president Obamas National Security advisor until august of this year. He is now distinguish wished fellow on national colin of foreign relation. The president called him one of the most effective National Security advise thers country has ever had. Im pleased to have tom donilon back at this table, welcome. Thank you, charlie, good to be here. Rose i want to look back but i also want to look forward to where we are today first. Iran, and the negotiations, how do you test the iranians . Yeah, so where we are today is an agreement with the iranians to have a negotiation for at least six months with a good basis. And not having the program go forward during the pend ansi of the negotiations, that is the first one. The next phase here is to see they initiate that phase, experts are saying that we get in place the kind of mechanism we need and were sure that there is not any more enriched uranium at the end of six months than today, that they in fact neutralize 20s , that all the monitoring gets put in place and that will lay the bases for nexts to begin in january for an initial six month period. What is the test going to be, as you ask. It will be whether or not the iranians really understand and are prepared to go forward with a rollback of this program that is going to be required. Do they really understand what is going to be required to Gift International community and the United States the kind of confi against confidence that it needs to be sure that theyre to the Going Forward with a military w a Nuclear Weapons program. And were just going have to seeks i think, i think on that. Rose was this something within knowing that that was your goal. Yeah. Rose you had to go forward with . In other words, you had to test them. You have to test them. And this s by the way, to date of course, the reason were at the table is because the United States lead an effort beginning in the Bush Administration and intensified during ot bama administration to put in place very tightly targeted calibrated sanctions that were supported by the International Community, including the russians and the chinese. Thats the key. And those sanctions lead in a direct line to the election of rouhani this past spring, to the negotiations and his outreach, and to where we are now with the iranians. This is a direct result of the pressure, and the pressure on the iranian, of course, on the economic front has been a. Rose that raise the criticism. That pressure resulted on the iranians coming to the table if that is true, why let up on the pressure. Because they did not do everything you wanted them to do. It had to be tested. The purpose of the sanctions was not sanction force the sake of suction, not to pun shall for the sake of pun eschment. It rass rather to force a choice, a tonight make clear to the iranian moon and iranian leadership that the only way forward here from the immense pressure, which by the way continues during the negotiations. They get about 6 or 7 billion dollars in relief over six months but there is another 40 billion dollars worth of oil sales that they cant make and they will lose over the same period. So the pressure continue, indeed just last week the United States put on a decisional sanctions. Rose and leading Iranian Foreign minister said we may just become out of this. But i think they understand my judgement on this, of course, and again it is the first im deeply involved in the sanctions effort, and the pressure effort, that the pressure is on the iranian, pressure is on the iranians in several respect. Number one, economic pressure continues during the course of the negotiations. So they cannot just stall these negotiations and get, and expect to get out frund the pressure it continues at a very high level an indeed we did additional designations just last week. Number two, expectations. You know, when sglafers foreign minister went back to iran he was give then positive welcome. But what. Rose some sectors of the community criticized him, Republican Guard and all that. But the Supreme Leader indicated that they will support these negotiations at least so far. Rose exactly. So far, but what does that mean in terms of zarif andrew hanny t means they have expectations among the iranian people that they will make progress here. And that puts pressure on them. A failure bit iran yens to move forward here and come to some understanding within the International Community and relieve the economic pressure will be seen as a failure on rouhani. That is the pressure, and the mindset, the pressure is all on the iranians, criticism also goes like this. As you suggested, you built up this enormous sanction force and some people say if you began to reduce that it will be much harder than bringing it back. Thats true. Thats true. An thats item structure of this is so important. What has happened here is that they get some of the frozen funds unfrozen. And it will be done in phases. And if they pull out or if they dont negotiate in good faith we can turn that off. But the core sanction and hard hitting sanctions which we carefully designed again during the course of the Bush Administration to the bama administration, were very tightly targeted on their banking, finance area, and they are basically excluded from the legitimate banking business in the world and on their oil revenues which is the bulk of the revenues that support the regime, tightly targeted. Those remain in place. If those had been taken down during the course, i agree with you, but they didnt. Its important tonight stand that they remain in place during the pen receive the negotiations. Rose how do you come down on this idea of sanctions hurt the people but they dont hurt dictators. We have a goal in mind here. And the goal is to address a very serious Security Threat and problem. And sanctions here were targeted, first and foremost on those individuals and groups that supported the Nuclear Program. But we also brought pressure more generally on the economy. And again, the idea was to force a choice. The idea here was to have happen what happened in the elections last spring, with the iranian people stood up and said what are we getting out of this nuclear deal here, you know. Why arent we moving forward here with negotiation. And in order for to us have an Economic Life that makes sense and for to us be integrated into the world. Iran is not a country like north korea. Iran is a large and vibrant country that has through its own withdrawal from the world, cut itself off from the world and hurt its people. What a glorious past. And this is a choice they have to make. Tom friedman was here, you saw his column and talked about his column basically saying iran has to make a choice. Yeah. Does it want to be north korea or a percent china. I think he puts it well, say they said 1979 iran walked out of the modern world and the choice they have to make and the Supreme Leader has to make is whether they want to walk back in the modern world. There is only one way back n and this is through successful negotiation with the United States and International Community to give a high degree of confidence that, in fact, that this program is peaceful and that we have the kinds of constraints in place to deal with it if they attempt to cheat or get out of a deal. Rose so what do you make of saudi arabia and some other arab allies. I think with respect to our friends in saudi arabia, theyve been witnessing and having to deal with immense change. Right. Immense change in the middle east. From the arab revolutions in the fall of mubarak through the revolution in syria, to the opening of negotiations with iran. Its a lot of change to address and they have deep concerns about each of these things. With respect to them i do think we shared the same goals. Weve shared the same goals with respect to saudi arabia for decades with respect to not having so what dow make of former minister member of the royal family, the brother of the foreign minister is saying. A couple things. One it reflects anxiety coming out of the deep changes that are making place. Anxiety about. Anxiety about what the outcomes are going to be and that there is competition. Anxiety that iran may they do see threats from iranment and by the way, i want to stress something here and i will get back to the saudis. In negotiations with iran, over the Nuclear Program are focused on that as a security issue there are a lot of other issues with respect tro iran that we have problems with and that we will continue to push back on. Including support of hezbollah and things like that. Absolutely. Iran is not serious. Dont extrapolate. The serious situation to the iran situation. The interests of United States with respect to iran are very important. Its the reason that we have engaged in a tremendous effort to put pressure on iran, because iran acquiring a Nuclear Weapon would disrupt the stability in the middle east t would cause a multiple countries to race towards having their own nuclear capability. It would be a big blow to the international and global proliferation regime. We have a lot at stake tlment and we have put a lot of effort into the sanctions regime. We have put a lot of effort into politically isolating iran and we have engaged in a very large military buildup in the region to send the signal and provide the capability that all options are on the table if, in fact, iran should one breakout. And saudis understand that. It is said and you would know, that if iran gets a Nuclear Capacity or a Nuclear Weapon, and its ability to the missiles to deliver it, and there is no restriction on developing those missiles and that possibility, is it . Well, well have to see what the ultimate deal here is. This deal doesnt speak to that. It is often said by people inside that the saudis could get nuclear wells from the pakistanies because they help them get their Nuclear Weapons in a nanosecond. Do you buy that . I dont i dont think i think thats way too simplistic. And the big the major point here from the u. S. Perspective and i think from the audi per spec sieve the answer to the Security Problems and the middle east is not more states with Nuclear Weapons, thats not the answer to the problem here in the middle east. The answer here is to prevent iran from acquiring a Nuclear Weapon and therefore preventing all the cascading impacts that would affect stability in the middle east and saudi security. But are you saying if iran got Nuclear Weapons it is not nestle true that the saudi kos get Nuclear Weapons from pakistan because of the relationship they have . Well, we would argue, you know, i dont know the answer to that question is. We would argue that in fact the proliferation of Nuclear Weapons is not in anybodys interests Going Forward here. And would be strongly opposed. Well, the argument with the iranians is pretty straightforward, right, which is basically that were to the going to allow to you acquire Nuclear Weapons. Youre also making the argument, its to the going to get you anything. They used to throw that back when i would do interviews with them t doesnt give anything there are others who argue with the iranians who say look at north korea, they done fear an attack because theyve got a Nuclear Weapon. But the difference is very important to notes. I dont know that iran wants to be north korea. Im sure it doesnt want to be north korea, frankly, number one. Number two, i would argue that Iranian Security would not be enhanced here. But number three, here is the most important thing, iran doesnt have a Nuclear Weapon. And the United States and the International Community is determined to insurance this they dont. Its a fundamentally different situation than north korea situation. Were at a different stage in the Iranian Development of their program here. There is still an opportunity here, to reverse this course, and put in place the kind of regime that can insurance the International Community so they can beat china. Yeah, the big Economic Prosperity and be open to the world and have a whole lot of things that the chinese economy has benefited from. Yes, but not with Nuclear Weapon. Of course, im saying if there is a deal. And thats the choice. So whats the choice in syria that we have right now . Right now my judgement is that we should be very focused on the task at hand with respect to eliminating the chemical weapons and the facilities and materials that could support the development of Nuclear Weapons, chemical weapons there. How is that going. I think its going pretty well. Thats been a joint u. S. Russia project working with the appropriate agencies at the u. N. And that is a positive outcome. You know, if at the end of the day you thought that one of the probable or possible outcome would be the fragmentation of the state of syria, were going to be very happy that the chemical weapons are out of there. And this will be an important achievement, important for Israel Security and important for our security. Most people think that is going to be the end result. Most people, fragmentation of syria. Yeah, and if thats the outcome, we will be very happy that, in fact, that we took Nuclear Weapons out of syria and they were not available to either the government, chemical weapons, sorry, chemical weapons and not available to either the government or any other entity. So is that our end goal. Right now thats an important project there are multiple lines of effort but that is a project that is really important. Take the chemical weapons out. Get the chemical weapons out. So they are out, right. And then as a geneva conference. That doesnt directly impact the underlying conflict. Right, exactly. The underlying conflict continues to rage, charlie. And we have, its a big story of 2013, it will be a big story in 2014. But with respect, ryan crocker, a great dip blow malt on the ground believes that obviously the assad regime is getting stronger and that its important for the United States, his words, reengage. Well, i think what well have to see here is a geneva conference, right, and get all the parties, including the government of syria to the table if its at all possible to talk about ways to reduce the violence and perhaps reach a ceasefire and start a political process. Its going to be very hard to do given the divisions in the opposition and mistrust that comes out of such a violent, horrible couple of years here now of violence. So but i think thats the next step, charlie. The next step is to attempt and secretary kerry is leading this effort, attempt to sit down and see if a political process can be launched. Now the view of the United States has been obviously that the opposition should mx it down with the government. And our view hasnt been that the entire, we want to see the collapse of the institutions of the state. But still its very clear at the end of the day here that assad cant rule, cant rule sir ya, and cant ultimately part of a solution wz. Rose meaning what, the aloe whites can be part of a solution but he cant be. Of course. It is a minority, a significant number of syrians and, in the allewite community and other communities there, and obviously a solution if one is achievable would have to be a multied anything, multisector, mode of some sort. And the question presented is whether or not the parties can see their way to that beginning in january geneva negotiations. And its not clear to me at this point that they can. Rose what is the end result, same thing with iran, what are we prepared to accept, in the end are we prepared to accept in syria am some kind of fractionization of the state and the assad part will not be ruled by his family . Ultimately what you would want to have, if it is at all possible, is to have a multisectarian. Rose not what we would like to have but what is likely to happen. At this point we should take the best chance we can, right, and by the way, if we can succeed in this chemical weapons effort with the russians, success can build on success. And that may provide an opportunity for us to work more closely with the russians on the underlying political solution, point one. Point two, we should try to achieve a political settlement or at least get some understanding with respect to reduce the violence and perhaps having some talks and ceasefires. Number three if that fails i think you would be looking at some fragmentation of the state, thats not optimal and it is not optimal because it will present us with Security Problems Going Forward. Rose john kerry has some relationship with the foreign minister of russia, they have seemingly developed some kind of friendship and relationship, right. I think they have developed a pretty good work relationship. Indeed, i think one of the stories of 2013 from my observation, having laeft left this summer and having a chance to look back on it, has been the intensive, exceedingly active and i think fairly successful thus far diplomacy carried out by secretary kerry. I think because he was willing to take risk. He is willing to take risk. And that wasnt true before. Well, hes building hes building on a lot, i think if secretary kerry were here right now we tell you that with respect to iran and a lot of other things, he was building a facility. And an election with iran that made things possible, might not have been possible with ahmadinejad. I think thats right. I think thats richlt i think secretary kerry would say that while he was here, he has been exceedingly active and effective. And i think he has developed a decent working relationship with the foreign minister lavrov of russia. We have a lot of work to do on the russian relationship though, and we really did. Rose is it a product of what putin is doing at home or is a product of his ambitions are with respect to the ukrainians or the georgians or somebody else. I think it has to do with a number of things. In the first four years we had a constructive and productive relationship with the russians and got a lot done including an important arms control treaty, including continuing, which continues to this day, understanding with the russians in terms of supporting our efforts in afghanistan. We supported russias ago sense to the wto and a number of other things, having said that president putin was elected. I saw him on the friday night before he was inaugurated, went over a number of the things that we had done positively. But it was clear then that from a combination of russian politics, his own view where russia sits in the world, and a fundamental disagreement over syria, that, in fact, that the relationship was going to stall. And it has stalled, frankly. And the relationship needs to, we need to look to trying to find some areas where we can Work Together and move forward. Im hoping that the syria project on chemical weapons someone of those things and that we can have a more constructive engagement with the russians on syria. But there are a lot of other issues. Are you deeply worried about the number of islamists in there in syria there who have come from all over the world. Im worried about two things. Im worried about the groups that are fighting in syria. Right. And im worried about them going home. So its a multidimentional problem. Which is why the efforts of secretary kerry and those lead fog try to get some sort of political negotiation going is important. But dharlie, we will have out of syria for a period of time Going Forward here a security problem both in syria and the region and perhaps elsewhere including yours. And the worse thing could break out in terms of expanding beyond the borders of syria, because at the heard of heart of this sort of, of this con flijt between sunnies and shia is a conflict that spreads into other regions of the middle east. Thus far it is a conflict fought insigh the boundaries of syria. But it has external impacts. We have, i think, deep concerns about the pressure on the state of jordan, potential impact in lebanon. Its a serious security problem for the United States and for the region. David was here the other night, head of the roc, he said he needs 9 billion to go to the u. N. It seems to me in the great span of things, the problems of the refugees, not just humanitarian but the other issues of instability that he brings, that somebody auts to be able to find money for that. I think so too. And i think focus, if in fact, and again you noirx we looked at various ways to address the syrian situation, including various military options. And you rejected them despite the advice of secretary clinton who told me, secretary gates who told me, David Petraeus told me. I dont want to get into it where various people stood. But there wasnt an obvious military way forward. Rose you disagreed with them and they had a recommendation to do something and you just, and the president chose not to. President makes the decisions. Rose but you advised him. Yeah, that if you looked at the situation in sir ya, i think if you had had general dempsey and others here right now there was not a clear path forward in terms of military intervention by the United States. In lib ya, for example, we could see in front of us a military approach that we had a pretty high degree of confidence would work. We never had that with respect to syria. Rose is there a difference in terms of Foreign Policy from ot bama administration, from the time that you were there, you just left six months ago, the new National Security advisor, susan rice, a new secretary of state, john kerry. There is a new guy at cia, john brennan the National Security team has chakd, does reflect in any way the Foreign Policy. The president drives the Foreign Policy, and i think they are reflect the president , the president s views. So are you but ian bremmer was here the other day, arguing. I was arguing your point. Yeah. The president decides Foreign Policy, it is Foreign Policy. He was saying no, no secretary, when secretary clinton was there and secretary gates was there they had they influenced where the president went. Well, they were influential players, obviously, in the decisions that we reached but if you look at where we are fundamentally, in terms it of fundamental Foreign Policy, number one, economic recovery, and we actually i think an important story for 2013 and 2014, is the u. S. Economic recovery. Second,. Let me just interrupt you, and you and others and the president made clear that a countrys continued National Security depends on his continued economic vitality. Absolutely. You said that as eloquently as he has. It is an iron law, second is that you had in the first term a focus on the challenge of the iranian Nuclear Program, the security challenge that they facement and you have that continued here again with some changes brought about by the election of rouhani which is the result of the sanctions campaign. Third, you have is a rebalancing towards asia which although you have seen a lot of commentary saying, asking the question, whether the rebalance is sustainable in light of the events in the middle east and the push and pull of american obligation. Rebalance, the word used was pivot. Well, i would argue rebalance, i think is the right way to describe it. But you can pick your word. The point is that there was a reemphasis on asia. And a bringing all the elements we could of National Power to Pay Attention to asia given the importance of it to the american future, there have been some questions about that. The fact is though that all during this year including up until today, there had been a lot of emphasis on this, many trips. The president was not able to go to asia in november because of the shutdown. He is going to go in april. And it was a loss. I think it was a loss. You said it was a loss, other people said it was a loss. You werent there to have facetoface meetingness. I think was very costly. It just wasnt should jinping t was the president of the United States, present as a leader, with all leaders of asia. And very importantly, in terms continuity, very pornly on the trade negotiation that we have under way in asia rit now, the biggest trade negotiation in the world. And you believe most important trade agreement in the world. I think it going to be the most important trade agreement in the world am but were working on another one to follow that in europe. Heres what i dont understand, but naive as i am. I was talking to max because chus, chairman of the Senate Finance committee from mononeucliosis may very well be the choice to go, max baucus focus has been on the economy and the American Economy and tax reform was his big deal. It seems to me that someone like tom donei long bond should have been the ambassador to china f you were interested in continuity of the relationship because you were the guy that the president sent over there to meet with these leaders time after time t was said that you carry the china brief, not joe biden, not in, you did. Well, i spent a lot of time in china. Rose so why sjt tom donilon ambassador to china. Because im doing other things right now. But the truth s of course, is that the china emphasis and the engagement and the asia emphasis and engagement was an administration ideal, secretary clinton took her first trip as secretary of state to asia. That was the first time a secretary of state had taken his or her first trip to asia since dean rusk in 196178. And that was done early on in 2009. With respect to the selection of the senator baucus, i think its an excellent election, why . Because the chinese will see it as to what it is, one of the most senior people in the u. S. Government, a person of stature, the chairman of the finance committee, with a close relationship too the president is coming to represent the United States. Theres always this sort of cyclical discussion about the klein of america and you have spoken out well about that, which is the idea, just take it off me yu think america is not losing its step and in providing leadership in the world, notwithstanding somebody who says, you know, were not sure about American Leadership any more, we think not that they are in klein but theyre not prepared to play the role that they used to. I would look at the fundamentals. I think is the most important thing to do with respect to that kind of question. The Zbigniew Brzezinski has an assets and liability chart in his recent bock and i think that is a useful way to look at this, and he cites what he calls american enduring strength. And if you did a Balance Sheet approach to this you thought about the fundamentals, Going Forward, and you did the list, the size of the economy, the wealth of our economy, the our demographic future compared to our competitors, our geography, our military strength, our innovation, something you know a lot about and spend a lot of time on, look at the most important Innovative Companies in the world there, american companies, our Higher Education system, our Alliance System which isnt typically on that list but it is a unique american asset, no other country in the world has a global set of alliances that we have that have been put together on a bipartisan basis since world war ii, it is a big difference between leading and wanting, and having demand for to you lead, demand and just having leverage. And the desire for American Leadership is in asia and around the world very high right now. And you look at other things which have he mercked in terms of enduring strength in the klaas couple of years including our energy future. Which si a big story coming out of 2013, United States today it is predicted will be the largest producer of oil by 2020 in the world. Were currently the largest producer of natural gasment you see reductions in the amount of, and the cost of manufacturing in the United States. We will be a net exporter of energy. Yes, and it is a tremendous when we came into office in 2008 and 9, the predictions were we would have to be a big importer, twice as much, every predictions has been turned on our head this allows us a stronger Manufacturing Base and much stronger position in the world. If you put together that list of enduring strength, and you ask yourself would you want to trade places with anybody else in the world, the answer is no. Rose okay. I would just close with this bus i forgot to bring it up at the time. John kerry is involved in three big things. Number one is iraq i mean iran, number two is sir ya, number three is israelipalestinian. We havent talked about that. Do you believe its possible that after all that has been done and all that has been said and all the road blocks to peace that there cash at long last, because of some new form labs, some new realization by the two parties, that they can make Real Progress . I think two thingsment one is that i think its a strategic interest of both parties to make progress as expected of the palestinianisraeli conflict. And number two, i think that the energy that secretary kerry has put in this i think has made a difference. Rose how do you expla enif . Which,. Rose the energy. The energy . I think that. Rose he just believes he gave it his best shot and therefore whatever he is prepared to do. I think that he is i think secretary kerry Sees Opportunities in the world and hes determined to. Rose be a part. Hes determined to seize those opportunities. And initiate. And has he given more this has been raised, more latitude than secretary clinton was . By the president . I think that at the end of the day at the end of the day, the president makes these decisions. And as the president sets policy, and the president sets the gives instructions to his secretary of state, secretary clinton, of course s one of the most powerful and wellknown women in the world. Individuals in the world. Was a very active secretary of state. Rose what do you think her most significant achievement was. A number of things. First of all the most significant set of achievements were around reviving american prestige, power and authority around the world which was very important. The achievements with respect to economic state craft which has now lead us to the point where were about to maybe finish major trade negotiation in asia and begin one in europe, secretary clinton was very focused, obviously on this. We obviously ended the war in iraq, the americas participation. Rose we didnt leave any prepares there. We did not leave troops there. Rose we failed on that negotiation, didnt we . Well, at the end of the day, the iraqis made a decision that they were not prepared to provide what was necessary to have a small troop presence. Rose the afghans may do the same thing or not. I dont know what will happen with respect to av begun stand. We now have some 46, 47,000 troops in afghanistan. Were on the road to withdrawing all those troops, and this mission by the end of 2014. And president karzai and the afghans have to make a decision with respect to what they want in terms of an enduring presence. I said and i believe this that it is reckless for president karzai not to sign this deal and not to sign it soon. Rose interesting that someone, somebody, an important figure in iraq evidently advised the Afghan Government to do it. The foreign minister visited with president karzai, accord together reports that ive seen, and indicated to him that, in fact, he should take the under stain understanding, that the future of afghan, afghanistan is dependent on it, than is very important, afghanistan very differently situated than iraq. Iraq had an energy sector. Iraq had a middle class. Iraq had a security force. The afghans are being offered this in terms of security, and economic support, and Political Support Going Forward, and not to take the World Community up on that i think, would be a mised opportunity and poor decision by the afghans and indeed i believe most afghans believe that. Rose thank you for coming, tom. Nice to see you. Rose jonah hill is here. He made his name as an acker with bawdy comedies like superbad and knocked up. In 2011 he was nominated an oscar for his role in money ball. He now stars alongside lee favouredo dicaprio in a new movie by Martin Scorsese. Here is the trailer for the wolf of wall street. Excuse me. Yeah. Is that your car. Yeah. Jag. Yeah, yeah. How much money you make. I dont know, 72,000 last month. You show me a pay stub for 72,000, i quit my job right now and i work for you. Hey, listen, i quit. Yeah, im going into stocks. My name is jordan, at the tender age 262 i headed to the only place that could hit my high minded am bigs. The name of the game move the money were your clients pocket into your pocket, but if you make your clients unam at the same tie it is advantageous to everyone, correct . No. I started my own firm out of an abandoned auto body shop. We will be targeting the wealthiest 1 of americans. I love three things. I love my country i love jesus christ an i lovemaking people rich. But i needed to mold him in my own image. With this script im going teach each and every one of you to be the best. This is the greatest company in the world i was becoming a legend. Arent you married. Yeah, but married people cant have friends. Were to the going to be friends. I was making so much money i know what to do with it. 26,000, for one dinner. Dad, were not poor any more. One of these sign, cure cancer. They didnt cure cancer, that is the problem. That is why they were there. 22 million in three hours the real question is this, with all this legal . Woi absolutely not. I got pictures of your whole inner circle this is bad. Its okay, youre all right. This right here is the land of opportunity. You just tried to bribe a federal officer. In is america. This is my home good for you, little man. Youre the little man. The show goes on. Youre going need to send in the National Guard to take me out because i aint going nowhere we dont work for you, man. You have your money taped to your would bes, technically dow work for me. Im pleased to have jonah hill back at the table, congratulations. Thank you, good to see you. Rose we saw a little hint of this, tell me what this movie is about and who your character is. This movie is about some. Worst people in the world, probably, a lot of the reason for the downfall of our economy. And our personal morals and everything. And you know, but it really is about these guys who really, you know, get swept up in the wrong things, and excess and greed. Kind of like a modern day caligula. Leonardo dicaprios character and my character start this company that sells people penny stocks and basically gets undeserving people, working class people and drains their Bank Accounts by selling them a dream. Rose and who is your character. Donie is my character and he is probably the closest thing to an animal ever, ever portrayed on screen as far as no impulse control, no moral decisionmaking, just someone completely heartless. Rose so how did you prepare for it . Well, i had met with Leonardo Dicaprio before i was supposed to meet with martin core say see. And i was very adamant that he i knew people like this in society, you know. I had seen them exist and really was saddened by the fact that they dont care about anything besides things, you know, all they care about is more and more and filling some hole that is never going to be filled. And not caring what you have to do to get those things, you know. And i basically i just said to them, i really, i have to play this character. And it was the most interesting process because it was about you know, im usually not asking the director, saying especially with my favorite filmmaker of all time say going ive got to play this character because any acker who would say i have to play this character for you, Martin Scorsese, you know, but hi seen this person, you know, too often. And so i was are interested. Rose so you knew him not a personal person. Rose you new the idea of donnie. Yeah, donnie is just someone i see too often. Rose so how is Leonardo Dicaprio as an actor . I think hes the finest actor ive ever worked with. As far as being able to immediately go into a place that you didnt think was possible to get to that quickly, you know, hes so, so hes so committed, hes so brilliant. Hes so good to the other actors. He makes everyone around him better, you know. And it was just. Rose how do you do that . Youre willing to give up your own great moment for someone elses great moment. Or if you sniff out theyre about to go do something great you help push them to that place. And hes just, he becomes that person. You know how people say oh, he became that character. Right. When they yelled action, he was jordan belfour and it was incredible to be around. Yeah s this a comedy or drama . I done know. Theres lots of laughs in it. Rose it seemed to be when we saw it together there. It is, if you know the darkest comedy ever made, or the funniest drama ever made. Rose all right, take a look this is a clip from the wolf at wall street. Excuse me. Yeah. Is that your car on the lot. Yeah. The jag. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You make a lot of am un. Yeah, i do all right for myself. Im trying to put it together, nice car, we live in the same building, im not understanding, how much money do you make . I dont know, 70,000 last month, no, im serious. No, im serious too, seriously how much money you make. I told you, 70,000 well, technically, 72,000 last month. You make 72 grand in one month. Yeah. I tell you what, you show me a pay stub for 27,000, i quit my job right now and i work for you. Hey, paulie, whats up . No, yeah, yeah, everythings fine. Hey, listen, i quit. That scene is interesting because that was i hadnt been in an audition in six years. And this was my first audition was for this film. And i had prepared for months for it. And i was going to audition with Martin Scorsese and that was the audition scene. Yeah. That was the scene. Uhhuh. So i had prepared for that scene for months before we had even started shooting, before i had even had the part. Rose and how did you prepare for it . Well, that is the intro scene to donnie that is donnies intro into the film. You dont see him, the first moment of that clip is the first time you see 4i78 in the film imposing over jordan, you know, asking really inappropriate questions like how much money dow make. Rose is that your car. Is that your car y do you have so much money, you know, like i dont understand, tell me why you have more money than i do. Its really like a kid kind of putting together why is your lollipop bigger than my lollipop. How do i get the bigger you know what i mean . Its very imposing. And you know, i just, it was such a great way to meet this character because thats what he is. He walks right up to you, gets in your face and asks you inappropriate questions. And does not realize hes being completely inappropriate. Rose and how was Martin Scorsese. Hes amazing. Rose everything you hoped he would be. The best story i have i think about him as a film maker in my experience working with him is in both of those scenes. So the beginning part of the scene, is this longer scene where im asking how much money dow make and everything. Then there is just a phone call scene and it was written as hey, listen, i quit. So i spent months preparing for this big intro scene and right after we were shooting this smaller scene where the only lines were i quit. And we flaled, you know, we were happy with that scene, he was happy, not we. Rose so you nailed it, as written and then you said and no, he was happy once we did different improvization and we did it a few times, he is like okay, great, moving on to the next scene. The next scene should have taken an hour to shoot because it is a really small scenement but i hadnt thought about it that much. Hi really thought about the bigger scene. And then we start doing it, and we do it over and over and over again, and over again, and i am, he just like it wasnt right for him, you know, for some reason. And he wasnt quite exactly sure what it was. A so i started getting really, really nervous, like really nervous. And so much so that his assistant came up to me and said are you okay. Are you all right. Which spun me out even way worse than i had been. And so we do it a bunch more times and we cant get it for whatever reason. And he goes all right, all right, earn, lets take a break. Kid, come here. We go and he has his own video village, his own area. And we sit and i sit next to him. He sits, starts reading its paper. We dont talk. I sit there just nervous and not knowing like what to say or anything. We sit for 20 minutes and then he goes, all right, lets try one. And we did it like once, and that was that. And so what was the difference . Maybe i dont know. Rose he was saying you passed all the preparation, because this is one you had no preparation. I had just not thought about that deeply. And so i dont know what it. But whatever it is. Rose it worked. He was happy. And i think maybe i had to get out of my head once i was doing it a certain way, maybe i had to relax and not, maybe not think about it as intensely and just kind of sit and breathe for a second, you know. And i dont know what it was, but it was the coolest thing. Rose so if your best friend calls you up and says okay, you made a fill well Martin Scorsese, tell me what you learned, what would you say . Oh, gosh, i could write a book about the things i watched, the things he tolted me. Rose store lees like you just told me plus plus i have never seen a filmmaker, you cant compare him to anyone else, at least in my opinion. Its like, hes my favorite artist of any medium, you know, hes my favorite artest of all time. You dont understand that is my actual hero creatively. And so you know, but i would say the most impressive thing about him and you will encounter problems on set, a scene wont be working for whefer reason, whether visually, the acting or writing or whatever it is, but what Martin Scorsese can do in faster, more efficiently than anyone ive ever seen is fix a problem as easy as it look force me to go like that. Yeah. You know, as simple, as the glass surgeoned it the wrong way, like that but thats how he fixes a massive problem with many moving parts. Boom, its done. Yeah. Here is what marty said about jordan. He says people like jordan, willos character, jake lamb or tommy joe character people try to distance themselves from those kinds of characters, its someone else, hes not like me but in actuality, marty says, i feel its not someone else t sus, its you and me and if we had been born under different circumstances we maybe would have wound up making the same mistakes and choices and doing exactly the same things. Thats what said about jordan. And these characters. Or maybe its yeah, i mean hes able to make these characters look, you know, i cant speak on anything that he said about himself or his characters. Right. Because hes absolutely right. But what he can do is you can watch goodfellas and watch these guy does dispicible things and still want to be them in some way or want to know them. Or want to just youre excited by them, theyre exciting and interesting in some wayment and you know, when willo and i were making this movie i remember we would talk a lot about how some people are going see this and want to become stockbrokers. You know, and not that there is anything wrong with that profession in an honest way but i was every day going i cant believe this actually happened. You also had and learned a lot from judd apetow, didnt you. I learned a tremendous amount from judd. What de teach you. That was my film school. I got to be from 18 to 25, i got to be on movie sets with different directors and different people creating Different Things and movies im really proud of. And movies that people seem to really enjoy. And he was just always open with information, he never held anything back. He wanted to show everyone he was working with how to make good movies. And how to be truthful. You know, his comedy is about truth, you know, all the ones we made that were any good felt relatable to people. Felt honest. They werent like a spaceship comedy per se, you know what i mean, like it wasnt like a spaceship lands in america, they were about friendship and about life and about things that were honest. Conventional wisdom is that comedy is harder than drama, is it . Its just incredibly different. The film making process is incredibly, incredibly different. Both from an ackers perspective you are trying to be just as honest and grounded and real. But in a comedy su have a pressure every minute to make the audience laugh or youve completely failed. And with a drama, you have the room to find every interesting nuance of that character without the pressure of a hard joke, you understand what im saying, so its like in this movie, i can just, you know, i have a different voice, and a different, my eyes are different and everything is different and im not worried about landing a joke every minute where in a comedy film, you know, youre really letting everyone down if you dont make them laugh. Yeah. And that pressure. It san easy mets rick to watch. Yeah. Otherwise you know if you have to laugh or not immediately. Exactly. And it can take away from the depth of the acting t doesnt make it its hard as can be to make a great come deal. I think its incredibly hard b,t] at i love about scorsese and i love about Something Like Larry Sanders show or certain material where its really honest and can be really dark but the humor comes from character. And the humor comes from honestly how people feel and treat each other in a real way, and thats when things gets magical, like in wolf of wall street, there is a ton of really funny stuff. But its dark and it comes from the darkness of these guys life, you know. And then there is does tin hoffman, you work with him. Yeah, he got me my first audition in show business. And he is an amazing person, his family is amazing, his son jake is actually n plays a good friend of mine in this film. But did you learn something from him and just the association with him. Hes my favorite actor, you know. And he is someone who epitomizes in my opinion what a great career is. Because he can make a film like tootsie and its an incredible acting performance and incredibly funny and moving, and he can also make midnight cowboy which is incredibly, you know, gritty and intense feeling, or cramer versus cramer, he has made a million movies in all different styles with all different kinds of filmmakers. Death of a sellsman on stage. And he could do hook. And theyre both incredible, you know what i mean. Like he has, its just to me its about doing so many Different Things where you just want to not do the same thing, so you dont not because its boring or anything but because you dont get better at doing the same exact thing. How do you get better other than just doing. You work with People Better than you. All the time and as often as you can. Everyone i worked with has been better than me that say truthful. It wouldnt be for long. Well, you know, i probably got way better than i ever have working on this film, just better as an actor, that i will bring to other movies as i go on. Do you have fear or you just dont have fear, are you willing to ris tk all. I would do anything if i truly knew i understood the character and the filmmaker was going to make it honest to the character and it was going to be a great film, or play or would you do anything. If Martin Scorsese asked me to do anything for this character, i would have done it and i pretty much do. Its one of the most you know. The things you didnt think you would be doing on screen. Yeah, or in life. Better on screen than in life. And also, katherine keener has played a real role in your life too. She has been an amazing friend. She changed my life. I have had so many people. Rose what is it about you so many people want to help you. Maybe i just look so helpless that. Rose that is a good thing. I dont know, you know, i dont know, ive been incredibly lucky rlz you either look like you need help or in fact to have people want to help you or for people to underestimate you is a very good quality to have. I really have enjoyed the element of my career where look, im really lucky to even be in movies in the first place. And the fact that i, you know z a lot of broad or raucous come december and i love those films when i was in my early and got to have the greatest time in my entire life with all my friends making movies, im the luckiest person ever. But because of that people are like oh, he cant act in this kind of film. And. Rose you have had a chance to prove them wrong. Well, its not even about proving them wrong t is just enjoyable, i think it made them be more surprised because hi started in. Rose you wanted to show them you could do it, but in fact by doing you did show them and its nice as a surprise to say, not i will show you, but simply having done it to say, yeah. Its just enjoyable, its enjoyable to show people different sides of yourself, you know. Because being funny, i love being funny, i love sitting in a conversation and joking around with someone but its not 100 percent of my life all the time. Rose so the the simpsons finally, you love the simpsons. Im a complete product of the simpsons and scorsese films. If i had to like say what weird mixture made you into your sense of humor, your style, what you enjoy about films and entertainment, it was i grew up with the simpsons and for better or for worse scorsese movies because i watched them at a really young age. So those were the two things that i loved more than anything in the world. And so if you can somehow blend those two things in some way, i dont know, maybe that would be the perfect movie i would direct or Something Like that. Rose so directing maybe something would you like to do too. I would love to direct movies, yeah, but right now im just getting so much joy out of acting. Rose the experience and learning experience both make it yeah. Rose a great moment for you. Just as someone trying to learn, its i havent felt like i in no way feel like ive learned enough you know, i feel like im learning something new. You can never learn enough. Exactly. Rose thank you, great to see you. Thank you, too s that okay. Rose yeah, great. Okay. laughter rose was i okay. Was i okay. You were amazing, did i talk too much. Rose no, you were great. Thank you, jonah. Thank you, charlie captioning sponsored by Rose Communications captioned by Media Access Group at wgbh access. Wgbh. Org this is nightly Business Report with Tyler Mathisen and susie gharib brought to you in part by. Thestreet. Com. Up to the minute Stock Market News and in depth analysis. Our quant Rating Service provides objective independent ratings daily on over 4300 stocks. Learn more at the street. Com nbr. Firing on all cylinders, from a crawl to a gallup growing at the fastest pace in years thanks to a ramp up in consumer spending. The hoe mmomentum continues and does it mean for your money . President obama says half a Million People signed up for Health Insurance on the federal exchange in the first three weeks of december but still many challenges