Than books in a certain way. Rose we conclude this evening with Tamara Mellon, called Tamara Mellon, her old company is called jimmy choo, her new book is called in my shoes when you were at jimmy choo, what was the driving idea . It was, for me, it was two things. It was about my freedom, my independence, and really vying my freedom from a crazy family. I was motivated by fear. But then i was also so incredibly passionate about creating a product. Rose the possibility of a Global Financial crisis because of the Government Shutdown in washington, Graydon Carter on vanity fair, and Tamara Mellon when we continue. Funding for charlie rose was provided by the following. Rose additional funding provided by these funders. And by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and Information Services worldwide. From our studios in new york c captioning sponsored by Rose Communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. I have made clear for months and months that the idea of default is wrong. And we shouldnt get anywhere close to it. The u. S. Government shutdown is two weeks old and each day brings the nation closer to a possible default on its debt. Lawmakers appeared close to an agreement on a Senate Proposal last night but hopes of a deal have dimmed, House Republicans declined to back the senates plan and instead proposed their own. The white house has called that counter offer a partisan attempt to appease a small group of tea party republicans. Harry reid said that the bill will not pass the senate as the impasse continues, the fate of the Global Economy could hang in the balance. Early this week imf management director said a failure to raise the debt ceiling could cause massive disruption the world over. Joining me now from washington, evan osnos, he is a staff writer at the new yorker and the magazine formers chinas correspondent, se pas sebastian mallaby, director of the geo center for economic studies, the council for Foreign Relations and with me here in new york are gray martin wolf, chief economics commentary for the financial times. I begin with martin wolf. It is little it is very difficult to know what is going to happen at washington. At every turn you think there is a breakthrough and a surprise when it is not. So i dont know if you know, i have no idea how this thing is going to end. All i can say is that i spent last week, quite a bit of time in washington and talked to some of the people involved from the administration side and they certainly convinced me that they didnt know how it would end, and if they didnt know how it would end, how could i possibly know . I still assume because i think most people in the world still assume that the very, very last minute the debt ceiling will be lifted with some sort of deal which will probably kick it on for another few weeks and then we will be back there but in the end the u. S. Will lift the debt ceiling because the alternatives are simply unimaginably horrible. Rose lets just stay with the fact and assume you are right on that, i think people do and thats the reason markets havent been worse than they have. Of course. Rose what are the consequences for the u. S. And how it is viewed around the world just because it went right up to the edge . Well, we have been there before, we have seen that happen before and most notably in the summer of 2011 so people would then say it is a circus. It is sort of absurd. It is obviously shifting the focus of attention in the u. S. Entirely internally and makes it less functional, but it is not a catastrophe in the world. We can live with this. So if that happens, it is really annoying, but we can live with it. Of course if people think that in the end something is going to happen which means that it doesnt get fixed, that we come six weeks later, eight weeks later and finally they do it again and again, it is not fixed and much worse and i think that is what people think at the moment. Rose i am going to stay with that. I dont know i dont want to go to the idea of default yet. Sebastian, what do you think, what does it say . Is there regard he is of the outcome some diminished credibility for the United States because of the amount because of the argument, you know, democracy doesnt work as well as we thought it did . Right, i mean, with this happening, if we stick on the financial theme here at the time when the global dominance is possibly more resented than ever since 1989 when we had a mix son shock and the gold convertibility was ended. And i think this sort of impatience with the u. S. Is partly because the whole world owns u. S. Treasury securities which dont appear to be quite 100 percent secure although i agree with martin that probably we will get through this but nonetheless even a shadow of a doubt when you own that much around the world is worrisome, on top of that you have got the fact that the Federal Reserve just by talking about it, about a taper of this unconventional Monetary Policy a few months ago caused, set off an emerging market you can say it is not its faults, it is investors reacting to that but the truth is that u. S. Monetary policy and for the financial dealings have these global ramifications and so any time the u. S. Does not appear to be behaving responsibly and predictably, it has quite a bit effect around the world. Rose evan . In china, this has renewed calls for what they call the deamericanation of the Global Financial system. I mean this is from the Chinese Government perspective and increasingly in the chinese Financial Community evidence that the major bargain that china made which was to invest heavily in the u. S. , financial system, china after all is the largest holder of u. S. Debt, 1. 3 trillion and Treasury Bonds that that may, in fact, not be reliable and this is the latest demonstration of that beginning two years ago and if you go back and look at the comments that the chinese leadership was making that was a previous generation of leadership, back then they were saying, we know that the american system will right itself, that leadership will prevail and that the right decisions will be reached. In this case, these days what i am reading is they are saying some of the same things but it is very clear they are concerned and they are no longer quite as reassured as they might have been a couple of years ago. Rose well i remember that in either the recession of 2008 people said, people quoted chinese leaders as saying we wanted to be like you, we no longer want to be like you. Yeah. Thats in a sense, that is the longterm damage in this case. And i think it is interesting if you hook at the fact that president obama after all had to cancel his trip to southeast asia, that was a trip that his host didnt even really want to have, originally this conference was one that the president obama had encouraged and called for, they pulled it together, and then the fact that he canceled, there is a short term embarrassment, obviously, and it provided a nice platform for the chinese leadership and chinese presidency to go and show that he was in a position of responsibility and that he was present, but the longterm damage is that sends a message to American Allies that you may put your faith in us, you may put your stock in us but we may not show up when the moment arrives and that is a concern for them. Rose speak to that. Yes, go ahead sebastian. So you created the chinese leadership from a few years ago saying ultimately we would like to be like you. The other opposite quote there right now is the chinese financial revolution, institution up in new york a few years ago after the any man brother, neiman shock, we dont like you guys but what else are we supposed to hold . And that is the other side of it. Rose and has that changed now, martin . No, i think the reality is they have even fewer choices. I think they are not going to be able to make the remnant b a true global currency any time soon and the euro doesnt really look great and what else is there . What really frustrates me about this is if you take away from the circus, the u. S. Economy, in my view is in rather good shape and has a real potential for performing rather well in the next few years, perhaps much better than most people expect. It has done a lot of the adjustment that is needed. It is clearly the economy, the big economies of the world and i am not excluding china, which is in some sense the best shape. Of course it cant grow as fast as china because it is not an emerging country, but if the congress could sort this real nonsense out, this complete common sense and makes absolutely no sense at all to anybody, as far as i can see, then i think the u. S. Would look great and nobody would have any real doubts and be very happy to hold u. S. Securities and the Federal Reserve have been complaining about the Federal Reserve Monetary Policy as long as i have been an economist and that is about 45 years. Rose i remember being at a conference you probably were at too and tim geithner was there and we said we dont have an economic rob. We have a political problem that is the score of it, yes. Five years ago, you had a very big economic and financial problem, i wouldnt say it has all been resolved, there are some very big difficulties but no doubt at all, none, that the u. S. Has done a better job of managing that financial crisis, sorting through the problems that were created in the financial system, in the housing system, than any other crisis affected country, particularly in europe, japan doesnt look great despite the economics, the economics have clearly improved on many fronts but the politics for reasons that i dont understand really have gotten worse, the only explanation i have is that the opposition here are creating trouble because they fear actually the economy might do well. Rose you understand the conventional wisdom is that you have redistricting and people were in safe seats and had no fear of losing. Sat the conventional wisdom. Rose and worried about some challenge to their extreme. I mean, to constantly bring the country to the brink of a default talk every couple of years is new to me, i havent seen that before. Rose and you any the people that are affected by some analysis of what would happen if there was a default, people like small business, large business, people who are, you know, have some sense of how the economy would be devastated would be speaking to those people and saying, you know they, one they may not listen, the other thing is the people in the Financial Sector look at what gras jamie diamond says over the weekend they dont care what he says and my impression is that a lot of people supporting the republicans dont believe this. They think, they actually think there is no danger, it would actually be a good thing for the government to be forced to shrink suddenly and they have an echo chamber that says this so a degree of unreality to me that pervades many of the people who are supporting these actions. Sebastian, who happens if there is in fact default . They do not reach an agreement, there is a default, what happens then . Two mechanisms that seeks into the economy. The first is simply that Government Spending can be constrained, because you cant issue anymore direct so there is a direct minus in the economy through that channel and there is more unpredictable one is what happens in the Financial Markets because if the Financial Markets decide that there really is a possibility that they will not get paid on a government security, then all of the be billions of dollars of lending that happen using those securities as collateral through the repo market would freeze up and if that happened it would be a Lehman Brothers moment where nobody could rely on the credit lines they has. Had taken for granted and thats where you get kind of a heart attack in the financial system. Rose there is also this, for a while, the argument, evan you and i have talked about this at this table about china was, i dont know how far back this goes but it was frequently something that i heard, we just want to get on with the economic with prosperity and happiness and whatever, and we dont want conflict, we dont want engagements, we will watch america fight its wars in afghanistan and iraq, we just want to build the biggest economy we can and have more people come into the middle class and create our own demand and all of that. You know, rose go ahead. That is the most interesting thing about this moment from what it means for china around is that it weakens the hands of a voice within the Chinese Government that is calling for. Rose right. A move towards a new, not a brandnew style of government, but a more liberal lized more reformed, more open, more pluralistic form of government this is very strong evidence against them and so you see on the chinese web these days, there is sort of a strange celebration among some members, these are sort of middle class Chinese People on the internet who say what you are seeing in washington is a demonstration of resilience, it sounds bizarre to us sitting here but saying look this is a government that is hashing out its gravest differences in public and there is not violence in the streets. But privately this is very damaging to chinese liberals and people trying to make a case the china party, the communist party needs to move into a new chapter. Rose and the other side which may be gaining, gaining because of this what do they represent . What are the ideas they have . What they represent is that the period of the last 30 years which was dominated ultimately by integration with the american system, politically, economically and geo strategic terms to allow the United States to maintain its role as the dominant power in the world while china continued to grow that that that period, that period after 30 years has sort of run its course. There is now a feeling within particularly conservative chinese circles it is time for china to stand up and exert itself to its full height. Rose so thats the point, really, isnt it . For a long time people would say about the United States, if the United States somehow pulls back from its leadership role in the world there is no one to step forward. That was that was the argument that was made. The chinese are now prepared and do they have all that it takes to exercise that kind of leadership role so no matter what happens we will see a different kind of competition in the world between china and the United States . Personally, i remained very skeptical about the ability of the chinese to project a Global Leadership role on many levels, i think many other countries in the the world are deeply suspicious of them much more so than of the u. S. , chinese really doesnt have allies. Its system is not exportability. There if it if it does come it will be in a very nationalist way which exacerbate this and i spent a lot of time talking to chinese policy makers they dont have a vision for the world they have an antivision they dont like what the americans are doing but what sort of monetary order do you want, what sort of system do you want . They really dont have an alternative so if this were to than it would only be because the u. S. Has completely left the field. Rose yes. And unfortunately, over the last couple of years, that is be gik to, beginning to look like actually a possibility but my fear is not there will be a clear replacement but it would be a power vacuum and it would be disorderly, very disrupt if the and we wouldnt know how it would end and it would begin to look a little bit too much like the twenties and 30s for our liking. Rose that would not be good. Let me make one point, sebastian. Nature abhors a vacuum. Yeah, i was just going to add that as well as china system not being readily exportable to the rest of the world i have been hearing in the last few weeks how it may not be exportable even to the chinese elite, that the crackdown on corruption quote unquote, sort of morphed into sort of a scary near maoist that are leading private leaders that have done well there to seriously question whether the next ten years they can remain in the country, because their own sort of security, personal security is something that they have just recently i think a little bit doubted. And so i think while we are sitting here appropriately discussing the problems in the u. S. Political system we should not forget the problems over there. Rose that is part of the argument. I think china has much bigger problems than the u. S. Does, apart from this complete nonsense in the political system. And i mean, one that is very good indication of this, where do the chinese elite send their children to school and university . They send them to the u. S. And for very good reason. Rose all right. I would say also if the chinese, the economy right now is growing more slowly than any time it has in decades and if they lose a point or two off the gdp growth as a result of some sort of global chaos produced by a default it will hurt them domestically in economic terms and that means in political stability and thats what worries me. Rose what about, i mean the tension within social tension would arise, i would assume because of unemployment and things like that, would it not . Absolutely. Chinese American Hedge Fund friend of mine compare china to a collateralized debt obligation and what he means is that, you know, there is sort of this payout structure whereby the senior claimant whose are kind of the chinese elite are always going to grab whatever, three or four percent of gdp growth for them and if you go through a beijing restaurant in the smart districts you see that happening front of you, so what the middle class and the poorer people get is sort of the leftovers, slightly, so that is why if you go from the current seven and a half percent growth you lost a couple of percent points and down do a five and a half i think it is ripe that political stability could not be taken for granted. The simple truth is, we all accept this, i think, and probably privately most people, outside the ux, is accept it, the u. S. Is the only leader available. If the u. S. Fails to provide leadership, the outcome unambiguously is a power vacuum. A power vacuum are unstable and the world will probably fracture in regional lines, we dont know how, it would be incredibly undesirable and utterly unnecessary and that is what i find so tragic about this situation. Rose this is what i find tragic too. Let me postulate this too. If somehow the United States had its act together with a healthy band with a healthy amount of partisanship, a healthy amount. Of course, normal, it is a democracy we know that. It is a democracy and could focus on different ways to achieve its goals this could be a golden age for the United States in a sense because of some of the things it has, education being one, a lead in science and research another and it is therefore it could support that and be a remarkable time in the 21st century does not necessarily belong in asia. I think the opportunity over the next 20 or 30 years for the ux, is, u. S. I never think beyond that period if it gets things reasonably right which are within its grasps which require washington to do some sensible things the but the focus would not be on the debt and deficit that is not the biggest issue. Rose it is growth. It is growth, as Larry Summers argued, it is investment in infrastructure, it is improvement of the educational system, it is a whole range of things, it is building on what it has. Rose but Everybody Knows that. And then the question you have to ask, why is this not the focus of the u. S. Political debate and that is what i dont understand. Rose lets assume there is a terrible default, it does what to the Global Economy . I think it is an absolute catastrophe. I mean, sebastian expressed this. I think gdp, even if they managed to keep the avoid the default, the contraction could be anywhere between six and ten percent of gdp to cut the fiscal deficit overnight by four percent of gdp which is what they would have to do essentially means an enormous reduction in gdp because you have no built in stabilizers anymore, you just have to get to the outcome immediately. That would be a tremendous fall gdp, would sater confidence, even if you didnt have the default, if you have a default as well, i mean, all bets are off. It would be in my view bound to be worse than in the fall of 2008. So it is a very dangerous moment and what terrifies me is people are saying it is not a problem. Rose wait, onees second, sebastian. Who are the lots of people. There are people in the house that say, they are your legislators who are saying we can live with this, it is not a problem. Rose but some opinions are worth more than others. Well the people who vote the people in the house count a lot more than mine. Rose sebastian, last word. In a way, in a perverse way you want a Financial Market reekion to come quickly and to be big, because facility will force congress to do something about the debt ceiling and i think thats the way you get out of the crisis for sure. Rose so when the Financial Markets start talking, washington will start listening . It would be like the tarp moment, you remember the first failed the market collapses and the second vote succeeds. Thats the hope. Rose indeed, thank you, martin, thank you sebastian, thank you, evan. Great to be here. Rose we will be right back, stay with us. I wish upon a star,. Rose Graydon Carter he served as editor of vanity fair since 1992, during his 21 year tenure he has won 11 National Magazine awards including two for general excellence, vanity fair is wellknown for its celebrity covers and as well as hardhitting journalism, the great Christopher Hitchens called the magazine home. This fall marks van at this fairs 100th Birthday Part of the celebration is a release of a new book, it is called van at this fair, 100 years from the jazz age to our age. I am pleased to have gray don quarterback at this table. Welcome, sir. Thank you, charlie, good to see you. So what is the secret here . The secret of. Having a magazine that continues to have life, vitality to be pushing at boundaries to be evolving, to be, you know, having the constance. It had good boants from the beginning, it was a gentleman magazine and sort of sophisticated aspects of life, frank crown shield was the first editor he set it up for a long run and didnt last for a long time. The first go round was 22 years, but when it started up in 1983 he basically told he didnt own the new yorker at the time and told the editor, i want a new yorker with picture, and those early issues were, you know, very actual, i think it over promised what it was going to be and a huge Advertising Campaign at the beginning, and so it struggled for three or four years coming back, it struggled at the tail end of its tenure in the 1930s when it failed to take hitler seriously and what was going on in europe and so there have been a number of turns over the years we have had to take so it doesnt fall into the same trap. Rose what is canadian about you . Everything. I like canoeing, i dont have a mullet, i dont have a mustache. But if you are canadian, you are canadian. Rose but can i see in the magazine gray dons canadian ist. I think a lot of effective editors are outsiders and candidates are halfway between, canada is halfway between United States and britain cultural, we grew up in both cultures, i think it helps to be from somewhere else, you see new york and america with a fresh eye and appreciate wit a fresh eye. Rose that is interesting looking at the world as an outsider, pressing your face against the glass and what is going on there. If you grew up in can canada is a wonderful place to grow up but a glass wall along the border and it hooks like they are having a lot more fun in the United States. They are drinking more and the sexual revolution and drugs, a getting to cannabis too late. Rose but good journalists came out of you, you and peter jennings. There are great actors and comedians, a whole. Danny akroyd, there is a lot lauren michaels, i, Lorne Michaels the. A whole i have that came from the canada. Rose do you take great satisfaction in both sides of the magazine, hardhitting journalism and this sort of coverage of the entertainment culture . Or do you like one but understand and appreciate the necessity of the other . The second. I understand the necessity of putting wellknown people who are recognized globally on the cover to move the magazine, but then within the same magazine it is the journalism that keeps both me happy and the readers. I occasionally have sent you an email or a call and say, every story hits me as my curiosity like writing to me, thats what you want, thats what an editor wants. Yes. Rose and a reader should think you are inside my head and my kur i dont see at this is what they are curious about. And there are four or five articles and it is like my god i like every one of these. It is rare but nobody wants a reader with sort of, you know, a very catholic range of interests. Rose yes. From politics to show business to science to. Scandals. Rose scandals. Yes. The literary world. So we try to you know, i have a big Planning Board in my office that i love to list this sort of sections of the magazine. Rose yes. And on the right is months. And you try to plan the magazine over a sixmonth period looking at what i am missing and what i need to, you know, beef up on. Rose lets talk about covers too. A lot of covers that you have looked at. This is the vanity fair with mi farra and her son, emerging of a young. Frank sinatra. Rose right. And the 2013 new establishment. Right. But jayz. Why jaycee if you really look he crossed music and sports and show business, and business, i mean jayz is kind of the man right now and anybody rose if he makes early money in drugs he is the first person to tell you. And he you know, and in his world, he is the guy right now and anybody who meets him will say the same thing. Rose he is the guy. In other words they all somehow all roads lead to jaycee ceo in one way. Jayz in one way or another. And his lady is the lady. Yes. And the. What is the babys name. Ivy blue. I remember. Blue ivy. Blue ivy. Rose you will have to correct me. I remember one time jackie o and hamill came in, i thought that is a couple right there. Rose it was. And they are the modern version of that. Rose . Jackie dated for a while. And that is a sight to see. Yes . Rose you went to the didnt you go up and visit elaine and is it a possibility . Because it was a place, to me living on the east side to be able to go up there at night if it was 11 00 or 12 00 oclock and just hang out with friends. It was very tantalizing and it was like kind of a very have successful restaurant here in new york, and there were a number of issues, problems with it, apparently elaine had such a great history that whatever we did the chance that other people would say it is not as good as it was and rose where is elaine . Put on a moo, moo, and show up. I can pull that off, that look. But elaines rose we can extend a photographer. Liebovitz. A nightshirt, maybe. Elaines was just a very nice Upper East Side restaurant. I know you didnt go for the food. Rose you didnt go for the food. Rose thats right. If you improved the food they may have had less success. Rose thats right. And the friends thats why you were there. Yes. Rose we need that, dont you . It is sort of above a club. I mean, what you have downtown serves that a little bit. And you didnt have to agree to be in a club with everybody in the room. Just your little segment of the room. Rose your people and the table next to you. If you saw somebody you didnt like that didnt mean you were part of the same club and no initiation. Rose and also like wavily, the walls were great. The walls were hav very good. Rose and there was a homage to writing. Yes there was but the thing increasably the writers left, they couldnt afford the i mean it is very hard for a writer to live in this city right now with rents the way they are are or apartment prices and so the built in community started with people like tom wolf and George Plympton and normal mailer and james joans, the next generation they cant afford it. They are as colleges or living in long island or in connect country. Rose if you were going to living in not now which would it be the jazz age . Which with one . I like period between the wars, great music, great art, great literature. Rose and new york was sort of the new york, london or paris, any one of those cities. Rose thats true. The writers were flocking to paris too. Have you ever lived in paris . I no, i have visited there a lot. Rose london paris is more my city. London is the International City in the world, but increasingly the london i like, the london of writers and editors, it is like fading. It is london or bankers and Foreign Investment money. Rose well, you know, what it is because of international finance. Thats right. And they go there because it is half tween the u. S. And china and for a while it was talk it might be the, it would become the Financial Capital of the world. I think that has happened. Rose because of our problems or because they simply true beyond us . Because they make a very attractive for foreign investors, to the detriment of british citizens. Rose you 19 the tax structure and all of that . Yes. Rose let me talk about this. This is the anniversary issue right here. It could be, i am not sure, it just looks like kate upton. You are good, yes. Rose and blows out a candle and andy liebovitz snaps the photo. Sure. Rose what did anna have, what did richard have . And you know them all. Either living or dead, what do they have . What is it they can capture a moment . They all have something different. I mean, hell communicated newton one of the great photographers and a photographer who all contemporary photographers admire and sometimes emulate i mean he should show up with a shoot with a little camera and no assistant and just sort of took a picture and annie is much more or a Cecil B Demille type production, but she will wait you out and think i am going to give her a look and she will wear you down until the point she gets the look she wants rather than the look you want. Rose yes. And mary chestino makes people look incredibly elegant and beautiful and bruce weber makes a shoot, whatever they are doing is look like more fun than your life and better looking. Can you imagine . That is a good life they have. They have photographers. Rose they have a very good lives. They work all the time. Rose but they travel to exotic places and it seems like fun, to hang out with interesting people. If that is what you want, you would like that sort of life. Rose do you have what you want . I dont know what you mean. If thats what you want, you said that is a good thing. For you, as a young man who you and Kurt Anderson had spy magazine, then vanity fair, you took over, which is not easy, after someone who transformed the magazine she went on to the new yorker. And you have been there since 1992, was it . Is it what you want . Is it your last act . You know, i mean it is a nice last act. Rose it is. A crowning glory. And i love my job. I actually prefer sleeping in my own bed so in a way being an editor where you are sort of tied to a desk is not the worst thing. I dont want to be a globetrotting photographer or writer. Rose did you ever want to do any of that . No. You never wanted to travel the world in search of no, i wanted to be a magazine editor. Why magazines . Because i love magazines. I think they are a perfect invention. You know, there are so many great mag steebs out there. They are inexpensive, you can buy them anywhere, you can give them to a friend after you, you can recycle them and dont need batteries, no instructions, and they are just wonderful, i love them more than newspapers, i love them more than books in pa certain way. Rose okay. But is this the new magazine right here, boom, boom, boom . You know, maybe and if you are interested in news and read newspapers on an ipad when i am traveling, and when i am in europe, and look at all of the read the new york papers late in the day because it takes a while to load them, and but the fact is that whatever, either way, but it is still a pretty wonderful invention. If it hadnt been instrengthed and somebody invented it this year they would look pretty smart. Rose but the question is, other than the fact you can feel this, you know, and you can turn and you can look and see the innards, you know you can throw it around, and the quality of the paper and the quality of the pictures, can you duplicate most of that on here . Absolutely. Rose because the photography here has gotten to the point it reproduces in an exquisite manner. Yes. And that was a holdup for a while, magazines can only do pictures. Yes it is very crisp on an ipad but there is something essential about a magazine, and, you know, the advertisers have spent great money in producing their ads, and there are so many people that read magazine front to back or back to front but the magazine magazines to me are just the absolute perfect medium for telling a, telling stories and thats what we do. If you are in the News Business it is not that is not the perfect medium but if you are in the telling the story the business and most monthlies are and or the week lis like the morninger, the printed magazine works really well. What is the perfect word link for stories you want to tell in this magazine . I dont know what you mean. Rose the best stories in here, those you think are the pride of each issue are generally at a certain length . I think they run between, say, 5,000, we have got one coming up in april that will be 20,000 words. Rose of what . I wont tell you but i think it will carry for 20,000 words, very much a story of our age,. Rose a story of age, what could that mean . I am not going to tell you. Rose if it is about an age Great Stories to run over 5,000 words you need to have narrative, disclosure, and access, and if you have got two or three rose narrative, disclosure and access. And in a Perfect World conflict. Rose conflict if somebody hates somebody or hates something. Two people are in conflict. Rose all right. Macho, macho or whatever is out there. Yes. Rose narrative is a story that. A beginning, middle and end discomploar is a scoop of some sort and access, enough access. Rose close enough to tell the story. Yes. Rose so let me talk about you in this way, because i have never asked you this. What is it that you have . For example, i mean i will tell you, jeff fager is the executive producer of 60 minutes, he said to me once, i know what i do best, i am a great story editor. You probably are that too. But you also command lots of good writers, and you have good editors, is it some other x market that Graydon Carter has that makes this what it is . Well, i am not even a great storyteller myself but i can certainly appreciate on one andn editors job and this is jeffs job as well, jeff fager who with ever is working on the story wants to make them feel that is the most important thing they will ever do, to throw their heart into it completely and turn around three months later and make them feel that that story is the most important thing they will ever do. It wasnt the other one, it is this one. And you are a choir master trying to get the best out of everybody and make everybody sing. Rose but do you have to have something in your fingertips that senses where the moment is and in the society you inhabit . You know, harry coen who started columbia pictures had this thing if he found himself moving around in his chair during a movie it was a bad sign. My way of when i edit a manuscript and i usually do it at a flat Kitchen Table with a pencil if i put the manuscript down more than once, it is a bad sign. That if i dont read it all the way through why should the reader . Why should i even submit this no the reader . Rose and can you see what would change it from something you would put down to something you wouldnt put down either by changing either the narrative flow or changing or just taking out something . Yes over the years you become better, and quite often it is shortening it or readjusting how the story is told, if you are giving away too much at the beginning, and but basically, it is just about, you know, it takes a lot to keep somebody engaged over 8,000 words these days and keep keep them coming back the next month as well. Rose i like this magazine, it is good writing, is it more out there than you have ever seen . Are there more good writers with more things to say than you have ever seen before or is it a diminishing quality . There are two times of writers. There most of the new voices are probably position on the internet and that writing doesnt always transfer to print because they are writing very quickly and i tell anybody who writes on the internet and they come to the magazine to slow down and take your time and tell the story. You dont have to it is not speed. You are not trying to get it all done in one screen. So some writers from the internet will make the transition to sort of long form journalism but i think it is always hard to find writers with original voices. Rose new York Magazine said about you, thumb carefully through van at this fair and you will see it is an art directed manual to carters obsessions. Not quite true. The nos sal ja stories, nostalgia gangsters and movie stars, pure carter, and the magazines dizzy visual quality and fanatic detail to design are to carters own abiding sense of style. Rose that rings true does it not . I like things like gangster stories and stories that took place in the last 60 years to explain how we got from here to there, i do like typography and design, we have a wonderful art rose you have a great sense of style. I have a decent sense of style, about the same as yours, you know. Rose i was just admiring your jacket. It is a perfect color blue. I mean i can see it although i dont have it. So what has been the worst mistake you have ever made ativan at this fair . The worst mistake. Uh you know, you try to make not we make a lot of small mistakes every month. Rose the artwork could have been better. Yes. Nothing nothing major. I probably, it was a pretty miserable first two years and i thought the staff hated me and it took a while to get them around to realizing i was not the monster i was from spy magazine, and i had and i have only fired three, four people in 21 years. I did three in one day and that sort of cleared rose what kind of day was that . It was a good da, it was a good day. Rose how did you fire them . Call them in and say look this is not working . No, i said, it is not working for me. And i gave them each two years to try to like come over to my side and it all took place in one day and i wouldnt even bring my child to the office in the first two years it was such a poisonous atmosphere. Rose really . But on year three it was all going around and it changed and, you know, i think that they are naturally polite and you had to sort of show you are some sort of alpha dog and doing that, i suppose gave them an indication that maybe i could handle it. Rose so what was the division of labor between you and Carter Anderson who as you know is one of my favorite people in the world . We finished each others sentences. There was absolutely no division of labor. We did exactly the same thing. Rose really . It was incredible. Yeah. We just you know, we had offices with a thin barrier. Rose so you was one half and you were the other half . It was both you were everything . Yeah and just talked all day long where the walls are about eight feet tall and it just rose but the same spirit . The same rose was one more malicious than the other . Well, kurt, yes, i did all of the fun stuff, obviously. Of course. Rose if there was a mean bone there it was kurts bone. Oh, yes. He has been saying the same thing about me for the last 20 years. Rose and believe me i will ask him. It was absolutely seamless. Rose it was . Yes. Rose and why didnt you bring him to van at this fair and say, okay okay, pal we have another venture here. He was in new York Magazine shortly after i got. And kurt wright has a piece in the anniversary issue so i dont think kurt wants a day job. Rose well, you know, he goes on these hiatuses and goes to different places to live. And you cant do that with a desk, yeah, yeah. Rose waiting there in the home office and you have an dead addition publish that doesnt work. So tell me, your passions other than the magazine, your passions, what are they . Well, i hike being with my family a lot. Rose and your wife yes. I love canoeing. Rose canoeing. I love fishing. Rose i just want to cars. Rose a great night on the river. With sort of a fog and you are there in the morning with your oars and canoeing. It is not oars, it is a paddle, that is a rowboat i am very good at canoeing. Rose what is your favorite kind of canoe. I have about seven old town canoes. Rose that is the top of the line in canoes. It is not top of the line, it is top of the old line and i like fishing and i like cars, and, you know, i spend a lot of time. Rose do you and ralph lauren have these big collections. No, i have the fleet of ralphs unsuccessful assistants. Believe me. There is no comparison. Rose what is your favorite car . You have i have a 1951 chevrolet woody i just had fixed up. A woody . A ferreira . Not an astin martin or. Rose or an mg. I have an mg. I have had probably 70 cars in my life. Rose 70 . Yes, i used to fix them up and sell them in college. Rose but you dont drive you have a fancy chauffeur. No, i drive everywhere on weekends, i am a sunday driver. Rose where do you drive. I drive the woody, i have an old rover, i really love cars and car magazines, and anyway rose but this is not a magazine famous for stories about cars . No, you can only put so much of yourself into the magazine . Really . Of your own interests you dont want to open up and see pictures of fishing and canoeing and cars. Rose no but i believe it is writing, write what you know, publish what it is you are passionate about. Right. Because you will be able able to convey the best of those curiosities. I am also interested in some of these things but these are my weekend interests. Canoeing. Rose here is what jim kelley said about you. Oh, no. Rose oh, yeah, oh, yes. Great is a man who has decided to create the world like f. Scott fitzgerald decided to create the world he dreams of. In terms of restaurants, definitely, all the restaurants are restaurants i thought should have existed in new york. Rose is there a character in life who you most look a at and said, i mean, is it like gary cooper, who represents elegance and intelligence, style, curiosity, awe bonn vivant . Benjamin rose bradleys relative. Yes. And i dont know how they are related but definitely related. Rose bradley is of the crown shell family . Yes. But, you know, the fact our restaurants, you know, they are sort of like the restaurants in new york that i got here in the seventies, and even one of our restaurants we have red checkered tablecloths and you dont see that in new york anymore and you see it everywhere rose you see it everywhere now or you used to see it everywhere but we are one of the few restaurants that have red checkered restaurants, and it looks like restaurants where people smoke but they are not, because that is against the law. Rose you mentioned paris and london, how about italy . We love italy. I think rome is the most perfect city in the world. Rose the mag seguin is vanity fair, the editor is gray on the carter. Back in a moment. Gray on the tamara nell lon is here, she launched shoe line jimmy choo, it became synonymous with glamour and celebrity, mellon built a company into a billiondollar brand for many she also emerged as a living embodiment of its stylish ethos, she looks back at her life and her career so far in her new book, it is called in my shoes, i am pleased to have her here at this table. For the first time, welcome. Thank you. When you were at jimmy choo what was the driving idea . It was for me, it was two things. It was about my dream, my independence, and really vying my freedom from a crazy family. I was motivated by fare. But then i was also so incredibly passionate about creating a product. Rose and but what did you want to do different about the product . What would i do different . Rose what did you want to do . You wanted to create a product that is different in what ways . A product that would stand for something special. What did you want it to stand for . I wanted it to stand for quality, innovation, luxury, a sense of fun. Rose . Yes. And when you look at what you do, i mean, do you consider yourself more on the creative side or on the business side . Someone who has an instinct for what that represents, style and fashion or someone who simply says i can help one else define that, i know how to take it and create a sustaining business . I do both. Rose yes. Which is quite rare. Normally you dont find the creative heads being able to. Rose sure they hire somebody to do that. Yes. I choose not to operate the Business Today like in the first five years of jimmy choo i was ceo and creative director. Rose yes. I mean it is quite rare. I understand both worlds, and funnily enough when i do private equity it is a very tough line to walkin between two worlds that dont understand each other. Rose and what was the greatest misconception about you when you were at jimmy choo . I think, you know, i think there was a misconception about all women who work. I think there are a lot of myths that actually i would like to get rid of today, he is not a team player. She is difficult. She is a diva. And i think those are about all women who work. Rose and the whole notion she is half as aggressive as the men is she is called pushy. Exactly. Rose are we overcoming that in your judgment, this perception we have of women . Because more and more women occupy ceo positions and positions of authority in our society. I think not enough. I think we need more women in reared ship, pleerd ship, leadership, i didnt realize the gender challenges i would face in jimmy choo. Rose really . I wanted to make beautiful choos, i didnt know i would deal with finance bankers. Rose what were the gender challenge . The they didnt take you seriously . As a woman you are not considered seriously. You are considered oh that stupid girl over there, we are kind of wielding this spreadsheet here. Rose we understand money. Right. Is he is just having fun playing a game. Yes. And how did you overcome that . By simply being good . By, well, you keep producing results and i never over came it. The way i over came it i started my own brand today which is going to have a different corporate culture. Rose why did you leave jimmy choo . There were several reasons, i have been through three private equity deals, and no management feel can sustain that. In fact i learned a lot about it. I think that it has become something that it was never meant to be. Rose it became something what . Private equity has become something that was never meant to be. Rose they come in and buy a company and think they can change it and then sell it for more than they bought it for is essentially the Business Model . Thats the idea but also i think when the pioneers started when you take people like ted fort smith or the departments at kkr or Steve Schwartzman they didnt want to come in and flip something every two or three years for their fees. They bought a company and ted i had many conversations with him about this. They bought a company because they felt passionate and they would hold it longterm and nurture it and be involved, what has happened with the later generations they just want to flip companies for their fees and management cant sustain that. Rose you are also frank about your personal life here. Yes. Where does that come from . And basically, i think too many people surprisingly are open about your life. Well you grow up in an alcoholic home it is all about keeping secrets and it is those secrets that keep you sick. You cant tell anybody the truth and i thought if i am going to write a book i am not going to sugarcoat it and tell the truth and it felt great to tell the truth. Because rose what truth did you want to tell beyond that . The alcoholic mother . What truths did you want to tell . It was truth of the journey from childhood until now. And i thought if i can inspire and give anybody help about myself recovering from alcohol and drug addiction, going and starting a luxury brand and going through private equity deals rose and today when you look at, Tamara Mellon fashion, is the idea it had to be that name . Because we live in a world of branding, you know, and i want to i want to build something but i want to build it with that brand . Well, i already had a brand from building jimmy choo. Rose right. I had name recognition. Even though i wasnt the brand, but certainly enough to start with a good plat oral form to start from and i, platform to start from, why not use your own name. Rose thats my idea, it is just the easiest thing in the world to do and everybody, you know, finds and also it makes you conscious, if you use your own name, it makes you conscious of the fact that you want to make sure that it is not tarnished or, you know, you have a higher motivation to see, not to see it tarnished that ought to be beneath what the name represents in your own mind. Exactly. I mean, i was like that before, but i was, you know, very detail oriented, but actually with your own name on it you are, you want to make sure it is good. Rose you want to create a new model in the fashion world. What is the model . The model is monthly deliveries. And that may sound like a very simple idea but what has happened to the fashion business, fashion show goes online, and everybody sees it, but it takes six months for the product to get to the store. When i started in the early 90 it is only people who saw Fashion Shows were press and buyers, the customer saw it when it was in a magazine and went into the store. Rose right. So it is sort of hike, ah i have been looking at this sixmonth, not so exciting, i want the next new thing. And the calendar has changed. The Department Stores have pushed design sores much to get their product first to be competitive and sell it first, they are not getting coats in july, and i dont know any woman who wants to wear a coat in july or a Spring Summer dress. And tell me how pervasive you think Online Shopping and ecommerce will become . Because we look at the overwhelming success of amazon, not just and the number of different products it now sells. It is extraordinary. Yes. And most of the people i know now, you know, at least 50 percent, if not more, of their shopping is online. Anyone under 35 is shopping online. It is biggest opportunity, and i think a lot of the fashion i have looks at it as the wrong way they look as it as one store, you have to look as a chain of stores. Rose the book is called in my shoes it is a story of tamara nell lon. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Rose thank you for joining us. See you next time. Captioning sponsored by Rose Communications captioned by Media Access Group at wgbh access. Wgbh. Org rose funding for charlie rose has been provided by the cocacola company, supporting this Program Since 2002. And american express. Additional funding provided by these funders. Andably bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and Information Services worldwide. You are watching pbs. This is nightly Business Report with susie gharib brought to you in part by. Thestreet. Com. Interactive financial multi media tools for an ever changing financial world. Our dividend stock advisor guides and helps generate income during a period of low interest rates. We are thestreet. Com. Houses divided, stocks sink, short term yields spike and a Credit Rating agency warns it could downgrade u. S. Debt, this as the house and senate collide for competing propels to reopen the government and avoid default. Title wave, yahoos poor guidance. This is just the start. What should you watch as the biggest names in Technology Begin releasing Quarterly Report cards. That and more for