Transcripts For KQED Charlie Rose 20131011

Months for the president. I do think steve is right in the sense that boehner probably staved off a coupe. If boehner had brought off a clean bill to keep the government open i think he would have faced an insurrection on his hands so boehner lived to fight another day. Rose we conclude this evening with a new film getting a lot of attention called 12q9 years a slave. It is directed by Steve Mcqueen and stars Michael Fassbender and Chiwetel Ejiofor chit. At some point i wanted to make a movie thats labored and to me there was a whole in the cannon about this subject. It wasnt reference ed, it wasnt there for me. I wanted to sort of investigate that. I wanted to sort of find out about that in a way which wasnt sort of predicting all sort of putting away my stencil on this. Rose the political story in washington and a new movie called 12 years a slave. When we continue. Captioning sponsored by Rose Communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. We are here. The government should be open. Now we should be able to pay our debts and as weve said and will continue to say, we if that happens if will negotiate on anything, anything, and the president confirmed that today. Rose we begin today with a potential break through in the budget standoff. Speaker boehner offered a sixweek increase in the debt ceiling in exchange for opening negotiations on a longterm deal for tax reform and deficit reduction. So what we want to do is to offer the president today the ability to move. A temporary increase in the debt ceiling in agreement to go to conference on the budget, for his willingness to sit down, discuss with us a way forward to reopen the government and to start to deal with americas pressing problems. Rose boehners proposal would not tend partial shutdown now in its tenth day, president obama had said reopening the government was a precondition of negotiations. The president and house leadership met earlier this afternoon at the white house. Joining me now are washington jonathan martin. He is the National Political correspondent for the new york times. With me in new york, mike allen, he is chief White House Correspondent for political and editor of the capitols must read daily play book. Qpts and steven rattner, an author and wall street finance sere, helped turn around the Auto Industry in 2009. Jonathan martin, let me begin with you, do you know anything as we speak at 5 45 eastern time we assume that cantor and baner are talking with the president about this deal. Going into it, give us a sense of what you think where the party stood and what lines they had drawn and did the proposal which put them in the room seem likely to create some kind of agreement so that the white house would be agreeing to this deal even though the president said no negotiations until you reopen the government . I think theres no question that today really offered the first glimmer of light since the shutdown. There was going to be some kind of deal cut. It looks like now that its probably going to be on a debt ceiling, that it will be pushed back at least six weeks. Six weeks until thanksgiving. Still were uncertain about whats going to happen on the actual reopening of the federal government. Theres no question that today i think really offered an opportunity and whats fascinating now is that youve got the republicans in both chambers the house and the senate willing to give at least in the short term on the debt ceiling but the Senate Republicans also want to give on both. They really want to reopen the government and lift the debt ceiling. Charlie, what Speaker Boehner saw was this there was no winning path where where from where he was. So hes trying to incemently move his guys to a better place. So over the last few days you see him talking less and less about obamacare. When they started to talk about entitlements, tax reform, bringing paul ryan back into the picture, that was moving more into a winning position and charlesedly way this deal is going to be cut is over the definition of the words clean and negotiate. What can you tack on to a clean bill which is what they had wanted as far as promises about future talks and not violate that and when the white house says they wont negotiate but they are. Sure, look, the white house is having a meeting right now and thats a form of negotiation so obviously white house is going to talk about this. I think whats interesting is that the hard right that boehner has been so worried about for the last several weeks seems to have given him enough run ty do this sixweek extension, that even they or enough of them, anyway, have realized they were heading for pro serb yall political cliff and about to go over it. Rose clearly the markets have reacted to this news. They were up 300 points or so. Over 2 , 300 points on the dow. The market has been increasingly worried about this situation. It looked for a while as mike was implying that it was intractable that republicans are asking for things on the Affordable Care act that there was no way the president was going to give. It had been so obvious for so long that he wasnt that was what frustrate sod many republicans. Sure, but when you read what some of these regard right republicans that have been saying, some were saying that a default would be a good thing and that wed live within our means and completely crazy things. So in the last few days the markets have been increasingly nervous when you look whereat treasury bills have been going where the cost of insurance on u. S. Government debts were going we were heading for a bad place. Rose jonathan . I was going to say what is so remarkable about the last 272 hours is how obamacare has been disapyred, to borrow the old soviet phrase. Its one of those lenin era pictures where they rub out of the photo the first they dont want to see in the photo. This notion that that was the central issue has really fallen in the memory hole starting, i think, with that paul ryan on ned the journal and ever since then you dont hear about it at all from a lot of conservative folks in the house and certainly not in the leadership. They want to get this on a more favorable terrain which is longterm spending. Rose let me understand this. As part of what boehner recommended, the negotiations to take place between the preponderate the if the debt ceiling is extended negotiations, charlie, these are conversations, these are talk it is. Rose theyre not negotiating. No. The president wont negotiate. Rose is anybody saying that obamacare funding will or will not be on the table in the talks were something from obamacare fund willing not be in my opinion obamacare fund willing not be on the table in any direct sense of the word. There will be no delay, no defunding. Rose so he will not be accuse odd giving in on obamacare. However, when you get into entitlements which the republicans will want to get into and which i think we should get into health care broadly speaking will be on the table in some form of fashion but not obamacare. And the question is, can the Congressional Republican leadership use what steve is talking about as a fig leaf . If they can get something on you know, anything related to longterm health care spending, will that give boehner some kind of cover to sell to his most conservative members as we did something about this issue. It may not have been own care per se. That to me is the big question tse can he find some kind of cover with what steve is talking about. Rose one sign of what this is by republicans is theyre going to need a lot of democratic votes to do it which they originally had not wanted to d. Im told that this will get 120 republican votes, theyll need 100 democratic votes so thats why they have to have both ends of pennsylvania, both chambers going along with it. To pick up on jonathans point, the incredible irony of this mess for republicans is they had not gotten in the shutdown situation, if theyd not gotten into a default countdown, the botched rollout of obamacare one of the worst product rollouts you can imagine would have been a much bigger story. Rose all the air was sucked out by the discussion by the shutdown. Mike is completely right about that. But lets also as we sit here celebrating the stock market going up and the debt lets not get to sanguine about this situation. Because now youve still got youve kicked the can six weeks down the road. Youve still got very hard choices. Republicans have put no ask on the table other than the obamacare which is gone we dont know what they want on deficit reduction. We dont know know about what the president prepared to do. But the president said theres no deal without revenues. Boehner said theres no revenues so youve got that. Rose does that have to dedo with no elimination of deductions as a source of rev. Rose . Thats a semantic question as to whether the republicans can convince themselves that getting rid of deductions and not revenue is tax reform. Charlie, very important asterisk to too old this conversation is that the white house hasnt accepted this yet. It looks like they havent rejected it. It looks like theyll go along with it but we saw the Senate Democratic leader harry reid today saying there wouldnt be talks until the government is reopened. Right now republicans are contemplating of doing this avoiding default, they tell me from all over the country, they tell me they are not feeling pressure to reopen the government. I agree with that. Theres no way the white house is not going to accept an extension of the debt ceiling no matter what else. The question is will they go along there are going to be talks. Rose and they dont mind talking about entitlement reform anyway, do they . Up to a point. Rose they dont mind saying flatly come out of the white house but they will talk about entitlement reform because t count rip is concerned about the issue of debt and entitlement reform. And businesses very much so. The country is concerned about it however 70 of Tea Party Members dont think medicare should be changed. So theres a disconnect between the country saying they have to deal with entitlements, deficit, the debt. But dont touch my medicare rose its the famous line during the campaign when somebody said dont you let the government touch my medicare laughter so we see what comes out of this. On the broader question of who won and who lost, boehner wins in this or boehner lose this is because he got his party to recognize that it was going down into a very bad place that might cause a Huge Division that they may not recover from not only by 2014 but by 2016. Just emphasize this is one battle and a big war. This is not the ultimate victory. I think boehner himself won, the that he actually got his caucus to a place but i think the Republican Party are still the big losers here in terms of having been perceived to have created this in the first place. Rose subpoena the president the win, jonathan, or he simply did not views in he survived but he got mix on him, too, charlie. No question that his numbers have taken a hit with this on the heels of what happened with syria and you had a rollout of the Affordable Care out that has not been a good couple months if for president. I think steve is right in the sense that boehner probably staved off a coup. If boehner had brought up some kind of a clean bill to keep the government open i think he would have faced an insurrection on his hands so boehner lived to fight another day. So me whats going to be fascinating is how this plays out in the Midterm Elections next year and what kind of damage the republicans face. Their brand in the Gallup Survey is down to a serious low. I think 28 of the country approves of republicans. So can they recover in Time Next Year to win back the senate . Can they still hold the house . The longer, longer term issue, though, is what this does for the brand among moderate folks in this country who see the republicans represented by, you know, hardline conservatives like ted cruz. How do they recover . How do they come back as a party and make themselves relevant again on a National Level when a lot of people in this country see them remitted by some voices that are fairly strident. And thats the problem is this isnt going to change. One of the republicans very worried about 2014 and 2016 said the problem we have is that people calling the plays from our side are from texas and utah when they need to be from the suburbs of philly. Rose does ted cruz come out a winner this . Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Rose because he has some claim on the right of the Republican Party . Hes a senator whos been there for nine months, is wildly popular with his base. His name ild in states well beyond texas is through the roof. Hes created a niche for himself in the senate and if he wants it he could parlay this i think to run for the president ial nomination. The question to me with cruz is how long can this last . Can he sustain this . The scrutiny he will get on a president ial campaign is far different than what hes gotten here so far and it will be coming much more intensely from his fellow republicans. If the he think he is had it bad now at the senate luncheon, wait until he runs in iowa and New Hampshire and starts getting elbows from folks like Chris Christie and scott walker. Jonathan is completely right. He elevated himself on to the National Stage but i think hes a meteor, i think hes a sarah palin figure with a brain thats going cascade across the cosmos for a while and then ultimately become a fringe element of the party. I dont think his party wants him and rubio may go down with him before in is over. Rose because of his immigration hes run right towards him. The tea party. Twhoops the tea party . The tea party is emboldened. The tea party is stronger and we hear again and again about Tea Party Candidates announcing or people worried that theyre going to get the tea party. So weve been asking is the tea party a mood or a movement . Its clearly a movement and it has staying power. Rose what does this do for the remainder of Barack Obamas second term . It is going to be one little crisis after another . The question of syria, iran, israeli palestinian. Is the idea of this president having some bold new initiatives gone and he will rise or fall on these negotiations and what happens to obamacare . Its much more democrats are very concerned that he already looks like a lame duck. This was part of the problem in not having a specific muscular agenda for the second term. So what they hope is that there will be some of these fiscal ends will be tied up. That the Affordable Care act will start to look more like a suck suss which almost certainly would. Doesnt look like there will be imgragt. Youll hear people argue maybe it can get done in 2015, we think its more likely to be done in 2017. The president s legacy is going to be very much about the first term. Rose i wonder though when they look at that whether he should have bought into the grand bargain at that time. He tried buying into the grand bargain. all talking at once sglchld well, folks would like thief moment back. But i would only take issue slightly with mike in that i think president had a muscular agenda, the problem is you cannot get anything done on capitol hill. The last Congress Passed half as many laws as any Previous Congress in modern history. This one is on track to pass fewer. But hed love to get immigration and dun control done and i think hed love thief moment back and get fiscal reform done. He has plenty of things he wants to. Do you can say he cant get it done rose the point is whether all these oh things have taken all the air of the activity for the next remainder of this term. Jonathan . Thats the challenge is that here we are, its pretty much midoctober this was going to be the time where the house maybe got immigration, instead well be wrestling with this debt ceiling issue until thanksgiving. That gets you to the holidays and then you mere in 2014, charlie, and thats the midterm campaign. For my money, this president s second term is going to rise and fall on what happens in the Midterm Election next year. If the republican brand is so damaged that democrats can overcommagerry manering, find a way to take back the house, keep the senate, and if thats the case, president obama will have a final two year period or at least the final year and a half to maybe get immigration done, perhaps Climate Change and perhaps guns. Rose thats what hes hoping for, a strong win in the 2014 elections. Absolutely. Look at the calendar. Very soon here were going to be at the first of the year and as you guys know its tough to get anything done on the hill in not election years let alone election years. Jonathan, just a couple weeks ago you and i would have said it was impossible for democrats to take the house. Where are you on that now . I think their prospects have definitely gotten better given the republican for global brand. I think its still an uphill fight for democrats because of how those are drawn but i think it looks better now than a month ago. Rose let me finally tern to you on janet yellen and what that means about any changes in the fed and its policy toward Interest Rates and the economy. Janet yellen has been part of the fed on and off for several decades ahead of the San Francisco fed, vice chairman of the Federal Reserve board as a whole. Shes voted every single time with ben bernanke and in favor of his policies. There is certainly going to be nuances of differences between how she thinks about life and how bernanke thinks about life. People think she may be more dovish, a little more worried about unemployment and less worried about inflation. I think these changes will be very much at the margin. I think youre going to continue to see the fed operate very much as it has. One thing that may be different is she may be bernanke tried to move the fed toward more transparnsy, he wasnt always completely successful and i think youll see her try to do more of that which will be a good thing. Rose and then theres Hillary Clinton. Should she she doing the smart thing by simply saying im out of politics right now, dont get me involved in this . Or should she be adding her voice to this debate and saying go ahead, jonathan. No, i was going to say shes not totally out of politics. Shes still giving speeches. I think youre going hear from her much more here. She has been quiet. Youre right she has been quiet in the last few weeks on the shutdown and the debt ceiling issue but i think youll hear from her more and more. She cannot sort of sit at home in westchester and relax in front of the t. V. As steve well knows. She has a passion for politics and as a policy and i think youll see her more and more talking about the issues of the day and i think 2014 will be very telling to see what other democrats do. The martin omalleys, the andrew cuomos. Are they going to go forward with their own campaign if they see her out there more and more . But theres worry among democrats that shes going to wait too long to decide. Shell be out there talking but theyre very worried shes going to try to stay out of technical politics for a long time and that leaves space for a senator Elizabeth Warren of massachusetts, someone who would be a threat the to get in. Rose shes the liberal threat as obama was in 2008. I think Hillary Clinton is going to try to draw a fine line, whether she succeeds or not i cant say and try do her policy stuff more under the guise of the foundation and more outside of washington than getting involved in the mosh pit of what piece of legislation happens to be rose so when she thinks her voice has a strong rose i think shell stay out of whether we should change the Social Security c. P. I. Index or that kind of thing. I think she will wait, as she did last time, until after the 2014 midterms. Rose what do you think her issues will be other than women . Shes very i mean, i know shes very focused on a question that make was eluding to which is jobs and kills and sort of a lost generation of young people who may not be able to find employment and what we do about it. But the way shes thinking about it is not so much lets go pass a bill in congress but what are the kinds of things the Clinton Foundation can do domestically along the lines of what is done internationally to try to develop ideas for how to solve these problems. I think bill and Hillary Clinton follow politics very closely. They see that there is a rising populism in the Democratic Party that issues of economic fairness and economic inequality are the signal issues for a lot of liberal activists and i think youll see her address those issues more and more as time goes on. She was on the wrong side of that in 08, wont make that mistake twice, theyre being very intentional about that. Rose thank you, jonathan. Thank you, steve. Rose well be right back. Stay with us. All i know weapon keep on traveling and were going to die trying. Surviving is not about certain death. Its about keeping your head down. Theyve been my family and my home. Rose 12 years is a slave is a new movie by Steve Mcqueen, the story of solomon northup, a free man from new york who was abducted and sold into slavery from 1841 to 1853. Richard corliss of Time Magazine calls the movie a document that is raw, eloquent, horrifying, and essential. Heres the trailer for 12 years a slave. I want to ask you what part of the country you come from. I originate from canada. Now guess where that is . I know where canada is. Ive been there myself. Well traveled for a slave. Solomon northup is an expert player on the violin. I was born a free man. Lived with my family in new york. Until the day i was deceived. Kidnapped, sold into slavery. Well, boy, how you feel now . My name is solomon northup, im a free man. You have no right whatsoever. Youre no free man. Youre nothing but a georgia runaway. Way down to the river jordan that servant that dont obey his lord shall be beat within many stripes. Thats scripture. The condition of your labor, its all wrong. Theyre my property. You say that with pride. I say it as fact. Man does how he pleases with his property. You come here. I said come here days ago i was with my family in my home now you tell me all is lost. If you want to survive do and say as little as possible. Im gonna survive. I want to live. I thought you knew something. Did as instructed. If theres something wrong, its wrong with the instruction. That will earn you a hundred lashes. I know what its like to be the object of masters lash. In his own time the good lord will manage them all. I will survive i will keep myself until freedom is opportune i was a free man rose joining me now is the director Steve Mcqueen and two of the films stars, Michael Fassbender and Chiwetel Ejiofor chit. I am pleased to have them at this table and i begin with you. Tell me about the story and how you got it and what you wanted to do with it because its a true story. Well, it started possibly when i was asked the question recently, a question id never been asked before. When did you First Encounter slavery . And i can never remember. As a child, as a person, all i could remember if anything was a sense of shame, a sense of, you know, embarrassment, really. And i think at that stage, you know, in life as a child you start off immediately asking questions about your environment because of that starting point. Anyway, fast forward. At a certain point i wanted to make a movie about slavery because for me there was a whole in the cannon about this subject. It wasnt referenced, it wasnt there for me. I wanted to sort of investigate that. I wanted to sort of find out about that. N a way which wasnt sort of prepredicted. All sort of putting my stencil on this. But actually finding out, investigating it. And what happened was i had this idea of a free man living in the north but who was pulled into slavery. And what happened was i was with my wife and she said to me why dont you look at true accounts of slavely. Okay. And we both looked and researched and she found this book and this book 12 years a slave. She said to me i think i got it. And it was so fascinating when i had in the my hand i was turning over the pages in the book and every page was a revelation. How do i not know this book . But then i realized all the people i knew didnt know this book. I live in amsterdam. What was interesting for me reading this book is it read like anne franks diary, the firsthand account of slavery and then i made it my foogs sort of make that book into a film. Rose you were intrigued by the idea that this is going from freedom to slavery rather than most stories go from slave troy emancipation. Yeah, but also most people i would say most people, a lot of people dont know that 10 of the population of African Americans at that time were living free in the north. Rose and how many of them were taken into slavely. Was this a singular theres no number because after a certain date when slavery was abolished bringing slaves from africa was abolished. And before that theyd take kids and people would be taken from the streets. Rose and so you went and found a story. What do you do then . Then i went with john ridley on the script and then i at the same time, plan b, a guy called Jeremy Kleiner and brad pitt who was the head of the company rose the production company. They were involved. They wanted to work with me and they were very passionate about working with me and i just took advantage of their passion and their talent and we proceeded to sort of make the film. Rose cost about 25 million . Less. 21 million. Rose made in the louisiana . Yes, in 35 days. Rose some at some point youve got to have actors, right . Yes laughter so therefore you go in search. Now, you and mike have this thing. Michaels talked about it at this table. Do you first think about him when you think about a movie . Whats michaels role in this film . Yes, i do. Its kind of weird and i dont mean in the a its never you know what . Its just been very fortunate that everything that i wanted to make hes been a part of. Ive been very fortunate about that, to have him involved in the work. And its fortunate that he fits the part. So its not preemptive, its not preordained it just happens. Its not forced. Thats what makes it for me beautiful. Rose what does he say about the character epis . Well, first of all, i think we talked about it, actually, when we were doing a press junket for shane. Steve was like i want to make a film about slavery and this is the story. And i was like, wow, that sounds interesting. Seems like that right thing to do for sure. And then i got a script several months later but you never i never presumed that i would get that steve would offer me a part. I just read the script and it moved me to tears by the end of it and i called him up and i was look like, i want to be part of this. Having read it i was like, oh, id like to play epps but i didnt for one minute presume it was a shoein. I just said to steve i want to be part of it. One days work, two days work, this is a great story, its an important story. Then steve was like what do you think of the character epis . And i was like well, this is an amazing part. Dont look in his direction. Continue on. Found it, master, brought him back, just as instructed. Rose whatd you just now tell . Whatd you say . No words were spoken, none of consequence. Youre a liar. Youre a damn liar. I saw you talking. I saw you talking. Tell me. I cannot speak of what did not occur. Master you come here i say come here i i brought her back just like you told me come here master i got her just as instructed. The stay away from that, boy. Thats right. Rose tell me how you saw epps the character. Well, i think through steves guidance at the beginning i knew that he wanted me to play him well, that the core of the character was in the love affairs if thats the right way to put it with patsy. His love for patsy. Who was a slave. Who was a slave on his plantation and his sort of lack of intellect and i guess sort of substance as a person to deal with it. He cant process it and so he sets about trying to destroy her in the hope that it will destroy that feeling that he has towards her. And, you know, steve was speaking about him as a very sort of flawed human being, never really as somebody who is a terrible slave owner. So from the getgo i knew that he wanted me to find in a way an people think with a character in the right way. I think the great thing about steve is he portrays them in all his films the characters that are perhaps less likable without judgment or with great understanding and even from the outset i think steve is talking about epis with this considerable amount of sympathy in terms of him being a victim in a way of it will time in itself as well. Rose explain what you mean by that. You found him as a victim of a man who could not understand anything beyond property . I think epps is a a human being first of all, just like everyone at this table. There are young slaves. He doesnt understand how he, a slave owner, a white slave owner, is in love with his slave his black slave. Theres a passion there which love is this thing which, you know, it decides, you dont decide. And his dealing with that is classic. Its a classic tragedy in a way and hes a human being within that. So you know you cant patriot him as some kind of one dimensional character. He is a human being like us all and thats interesting. Thats fascinating. I wanted to investigate that character. Rose so now you have to have someone to play solomon northup, right . Hes the only choice. Hes like sidney port yay, harry belafonte, theres a class, dignity. Rose dignity was a key word for you . Absolutely. Rose to show dignity going from freedom to slave . He has to maintain that journey. He has to maintain that humanity within the inhumanity and i thought chiwetel was the only person who could do that. Rose how did you see him . This character . He had dignity but at the same time is in the worst of circumstances to be treated and at the same time never lose the dignity in the face of yeah, i think he just there was something that i felt was about an essential quality he had as a person. The first time i read the script i didnt even i saw in the a way as a kind of story of this kind of incredible story, this incredible narrative. I didnt see solomon the first time. I saw story of a man who goes through this experience and it was really later on and reading the book as well that he that i realized its a story about him. About this specific person going through these moments and i think it was trying to get as close to him as possible that was the kind of revelation for me about the story, about his own personality and that the choices that he made were kind of unique to him and that journey and those are the reasons he was able to survive. It ended up with me feeling that he was just a very special man and i think his book is a reflection of that and just his attitude of the world, attitude to his circumstances think of the following thing but its not the same but its true. When Nelson Mandela was freed he insists his jailers sit in the front row and it is said that when he was at on the island that they had an enormous amount of respect for him. There was a dignity that all 27 years on robbens island could not, never did destroy. And there is a sense that you have to have you have that and michaels character knows that. Epps knows that, isnt that right, michael . He knows and feels that this guy is not like anybody else. Absolutely. And you know that was its interesting because i was thinking of that when steve was describing chiwetel. On set when we were doing the scenes, that was something that i found in the scene and sort of when we were playing i was like there was something that chiwetel brought to the character and has naturally which is a poise and like steve said a dignity and an intelligence thatsy realized very quickly playing epis that he was threatened by him and that there was something about him that he couldnt understand while hes the slave, im the master, why does he have something on me . Theres rose that he cant understand. That he cant understand. And so again he tries to sort of push him down and tries to belittle him and degrade him because his fear. Hes frightened by him. Hes threatened by him. Rose what do you want to bring to this film that no other film about slavery has produced beyond the fact that it goes from in fact there was an earlier version of this wasnt it done by gordon parks or somebody . I think he did it in 1986. You wanted us to know, though, in the most graphic terms what it meant to beat another person that you owned. Yeah, i think, you know, its either were making a film about slavery or were not and if were making about a film about slavery we have to talk about how people kept slaves. Whats the rules, what happens . Why were they kept slaves for such a long period of time . So therefore we cant turn our backs on it and you know its a part of the worlds Oldest Country and i think one has to sort of look at it and examine it and judge oneself on how far weve tom together. Rose what did you learn about slavely. Well, ive discovered something that is odd to say. I discovered love. I discovered this huge, huge thing and thats why im here today. A survivor of slavery. I its called survival. I discovered within that pain, between obvious theres this huge thing called love. Its an interesting word love, love is crippling when you tell someone sometimes that you love them they crumble and thats why i learned to embrace something. Rose this is the love of epps for patsy . Or largest love. Its a love which is about survival. Youd do anything for your child. Id do anything for my child. What you want to do for your child is survive and prosper and thats solomon. And all the people who are survivors of slavery. The love of life. I dont want to survive. I want to live. Its funny, actually, as well after the screening in tell you ride, toronto and now here whats kind of palpable in the auditorium afterwards is that feeling. Rose of love . Yeah, and i think people sort ofm brasz embracing like strangers sitting together holding each others hand at the end of the film and its pretty powerful that feeling, i think, to be in the auditorium at the end which i didnt sort of expect. I just felt it the first time i saw myself in tell you ride together inness and a willingness to do loving things for one another and help each other whether it be a neighbor, a friend, or a stranger. Rose the other thing thats interesting here to be not only to lose your freedom but also to lose the things that that that have shaped your life, like music. Music was important to solomon. Absolutely. Rose you see that in the trailer. Yeah, hes a musician and he has you know, its that side of him. He has that connection to his violin and i think thats the kind of part of his wider outlook, this is somebody who has this deep joy in life. I think thats part of one of the keys to his character is that he cant even in and amongst these circumstances he doesnt hate. And i think that that is a crucial part of his survival. Rose he doesnt hate because hate would destroy him . He doesnt hate because hate is not useful. Rose and it will destroy him as well, maybe. Hes a man in a battle for his survival, for his mind. And hatred is not going to help you. Thats not to say he isnt tested. He is, to the extreme limits. Rose and what does this do to sol mop . The fact that he went through this experience . Its a very strange ending. Hes gone but who does he leave behind . Were talking about 400 years, not 12 years. Rose slavery he left behind. Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, hes forever changed by tex perns but what would you learn, you know . When you read his biography he has this extraordinary depth, spirit, soul, understanding of life and people, of what these systems are. What Human Dignity is, what human respect is. There are extraordinary circumstances to be in which you wouldnt wish on anybody but, of course, i think that somebody like solomon comes out of that with taking away from him with these extraordinary feelings. And what he does is get involved with the abolitionist mutual, with the underground railroad, he does lectures throughout the northeast of the United States of america about slavery. He gets involved in doing something to try and bring this holocaust to an end. Rose theres also the rape scene. What are you thinking as an actor . Well, you know, always aware that that scenes coming up, you know . And thats that its going to be disturbing, upsetting at the time. Im filming it but also trying to find you know, theres so much going on in that scene its almost like you know, to just deal with it in a i dont know. In a complete way as opposed to just being again something that obviously happens a lot to patsy but to show the complexity of the relationship in something that can be sur so violent like that and theres almost a moment of tenderness in it when hes trying to communicate and immediately shut it is door and then its back to this sort of violent pattern because, again, he knows, you know, as well so much that not only his sort of confusion in this relationship and how hes allowing himself to be feeling these emotions but also that he knows that she finds him probably repulsive and so theres just a lot of things going on there. Theres a lot of complexity going on but i never know whats really going to happen on the day. I just try to be sort of calm and relaxed and focused and open to whats happening at the time. Rose tell me about casting patsy. Well, that was that was what was that like . That was a tremendously difficult. We cast over a thousand girls. Excuse me, we saw over a thousand girls. It felt like it, anyway. It was a battle. Rose you were looking for what are . I was looking for this girl who was Beautiful Beauty in a way and just something out of i dont know. A little bit out of out of this world somehow. It was difficult. I mean, you know, i cant find the words right now. Rose when you saw lupe did you know . Do all directors snow oh, yes, absolutely. Rose thats it . I couldnt believe it because you know when you want something and you dont think youre going to find it and youre going crazy and you see it and she came in to do an audition and that was it. Shes amazing. Rose and she does in the a way, i assume, that even helps you understand what it is you wanted more than you knew you wanted. Listen, im having a difficult time talking about it as you can see and thats because i cant believe that she exists. Rose roll tape. This is a scene between epps and patsy. I went to masters. You admit it. Yes. Freely. And you know why . I got this from mrs. Shaw. 56700 bales of cotton day in and day out, more than any man here and for that i will be clean. Thats all i ask. Just this here is what i went to shaws for. She was just amazing. Rose what did she have . What is it about the patsy that you it was this grace. This grace. This grace. Under the worst circumstances one could imagine, think of. You hatch it, you throw it on the floor but still it shines through. It was just marvelous, marvelous i was just thinking, you know we did rehearse that scene, it was the first time that weve did a scene together, the lieu pita and myself and she just came into the room and you could see she was amazing. I could see her past life coming into the room. I could see her in the car worrying about the scene, preparing herself. Shed obviously been sort of preparing all morning for it and she came to that rehearsal space ready to go and with brave choices and went for it and i just remember kind of looking at you two and then it was like, questionve got our work cut out. Its something beautiful about that something hungry and new. Rose is there an evolution in his character as while hes held . Does he change . Yeah. I mean, i think he starts off as a man who is in who believes that hes in a battle for his freedom. But he comes to realize that hes in a battle for his mind and thats the point of change for solomon. Thats the kind of understanding what the environment can do to him. And i think thats the sort of psychological kind of warfare, the psychological drama of it all sfwchlt. Rose and hes able to lash her back because he has to do that for survival . Well, yeah, yeah. Rose thats either life or death. Life or death. There is a direct threat. I think that in that circumstance, in epps plantation they are pushed beyond what is even to them normal. With and as solomon writes about that day which he considers to be one of the darkest days in the history of mankind, thats what he talks about that. Even in that circumstance even in that depth of hell this was something even more. Even more remarkable for them. If youre being rotten in louisiana they call you an epps. Youre being an epps because of this character. The danger as well that he would go all the way to killing. In a way its the unpredictable behavior at the epps plantation that makes it so much more terrifying because steve, up to that point, has shown the normality of the abnormal. The way that people are being treated but its kind of a norm. And you see the scene where chiwetel is hanging and all the slaves go about their daily business because this is their daily work. Rose and thats also about survival, isnt it . This is the guy that can survive and be so easy to let go. The yeah, absolutely. The whats said about the hanging rose what did he say in. He says he would have given more years of servitude if they had only moved him a few feet into the shade. I mean, thats extraordinary. And thats what i mean by when you start to see him, when you start to see his mind, the way he looked at the world, thats when you begin to realize there is something completely unbreakable about this person. And the way any time it could happen, People Living in situations where one day someone could be strung up and the next day they could be made to dance. Anything could happen. Thats the hell they were living. Rose what do you hope this movie will change . What i would love is that people could i mean, for me its like anne franks diary. I want people sort of 12 years a slai should be in every store. It should be in every store as sort of required reading. Just as anne franks diary because its a firsthand account of slavery and its an amazing book. Rose without brad pitt there would not have been any movie. No. None at all. None at all. Rose and he wanted knob the movie in yes, he did. Hes a great actor so, hey, guess that . I get two for one. So its one of those things in the plan b rose what was it about the story . Why is it he wanted this story told . What conversation have you had with brad pitt . We had a long conferring in london and i think he said, yes, why isnt there why hadnt there ever been a film about slavery at that time. This is before jiang go other than a major sort of event like roots and that was it for him. It was sold but yes, we should actually make this film. Rose is every experience different with him for you . Or does it have a certain. Rose after we did hunger together i was worried. I started thinking was that a one off. Is it going to be like that . Because we became sort of close and it was an amazing experience from me and i learned so much from steve but it was like picking up from where we left off and with sean bob bit and it was just like we picked up and again on this it was the same thing. It was like we picked up where we left off and there was an easiness and an understanding, i think, it was main thing. Rose youre working with Terence Malick next . Ive worked with him already, yeah. Rose finished it. And the film will be coming no idea. laughter rose and you . Well, well see. Im just sort of, you know, taking my time, i think, and i mean this has been such a sort of remarkable experience and one of the most amazing i mean most amazing experience ive had as an actor and it just takes a bit of breath, i think and im just enjoying kind of opening the film and showing it to people and i feel like theres still so much to say about it, you know, that its not like another one of the films that you open and you get sort of tired of can conversation about it. Its something that i think really does still inform me. Rose thank you for coming. Pleasure to have you. A remarkable collection of actors and im looking for a card that will tell me when it opens on friday, october 18. October 18. Congratulations, all of you. Thank you very much. Rose thank you for joining us. See you next time. Captioning sponsored by Rose Communications captioned by Media Access Group at wgbh access. Wgbh. Org the following kqed production was produced in high definition. [ music ] its all about licking your plate. The food was just fabulous. I should be in psychoanalysis for the amount of money i spend in restaurants. I had a horrible experience. I dont even think we were in the same restauran