Transcripts For KQED Charlie Rose 20130820

The fact people are binge on house of cards. That didnt start with house of cards, that started with box sets. You talk to anybody, what did you do, i stayed in and w567d two seasons of breaking bad, dexter, mad men there seems to be this d the audience is telling us that they want the control. Rose fisher and spacey next. Funding for charlie rose was provided by the following . Rose additional funding provided by these funders. And by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and Information Services worldwide. From our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. Rose Stanley Fisch certificate here, hes one of the worlds most respected economists. He was the governor of bank of israel for the path eight years. He are signed from his position in june. Stanley fischer has taught some of the most illustrious minds in global Monetary Policy including Federal Reserve chairman person bernanke and mario draggy of the central bank. He citigroup, the World Monetary fund and the world bank. Im pleased to have him here at this table. Welcome. Thank you. Rose lets talk about the Global Economy. Okay. Rose ill take your lead. Where are we now coming out of the kind of enormous shock to the system we had in 2008, 9. Were beginning to see growth in almost all the advanced economies. Including europe which is surprising. The Second Quarter data came in quite well. Britain is showing some growth which didnt look like it was going to happen for a long time. And the famous bricks, the leading emerging market economies are slowing down a little relative to what we had gotten used to before. So theres a Slight Movement in favor of the advanced economies. Rose interesting you say that because when we talk about that, were talking about brazil, russia, india and china. Correct. Rose let me speak to china most of all. Whats happened . Well, they have grown faster for longer than anybody in the history. You dont find previous examples of countries, particularly of any size but their size growing at Something Like 9, 10 for 30 years. It just doesnt happen. But it happened in their case. Rose and why did it happen . It happened because they let they had kept the system suppressed. They have the people, which is quite well educated, many parts, and they took the constraints off the economy. Not off the political system. And they have a very entrepreneurial population and they let them be entrepreneurs. And they did very well with government help. And with government connections. And they integrated them into the world economy. They grew through the world economy, as exporters. And they did that very well. Rose and was it essential that they had the government play the role it did . I think given where it had started, namely it was all government, they had to play a role. Whether they need to continue being so much in control is less clear. But when it started and for 10, 15 years they had to do that. Rose and will they be able to turn from a exporting economy to a domestic consumption economy in a reasonable amount of time . Thats what they want to do. And they keep talking about it. But it hasnt happened yet. I would like to add run thing. The chinese economy of today is more than double the size it was ten years ago. When its growth declines to 7 , 7. , its adding more to Global Demand than it did when it was growing at 10 10 years ago. Because 7 and a half percent of a big pie. Right. Has been growing. Rose and the United States . The yoobted states managed, although its hard for americans to believe, managed the crisis better than the other advanced economies. The many things which were reviled, the top, and things like that, actually were successful. The United States got the Banking System back into shape quicker than anyone else, the europeans still havent done that. Right. Rose and the system banks are at risk because of loans they made. Yeah. And the system is coming back to working. Now in that process, the u. S. Ran huge budget deficits. And through a very inelegant process, namely the sequester and so forth, the budget is now in pretty good shape. The u. S. Has got its budget back to where it closer to where it should be than any of the others. Rose so we have a sustainable deficit, is that what youre saying . Not yet. But the progress that was made in the last two years is very impressive. And if the u. S. Continues and doesnt exaggerate by trying to get back to a balanced budget or 2 deficit too quickly, this growth will increase. Its about 2 , a little less now. It can go up to 2. 5, and get back to what is regarded as normal which is around 3 . Rose you got there because Bebe Netanyahu now the Prime Minister was then finance minister, called you up and said how would you like to come back to israel, or come to israel and be the head of the central bank, correct . Correct, yeah. We were sitting our anniversary is in decemberment and we were in the caribbean celebrating our anniversary. The phone rings and this request. I said this is not going to work. He said it will work. And. Rose now was it his decision or was this some decision that had come through other members 6 the Prime Ministers cabinet. As far as coy tell it was his decision and as we talked it was clear that my first meeting with Prime Minister who was ariel sharon. Rose how did that go. It went exceptionally well, actually. And he was very, seemed pleased by the whole thing. And he was i didnt know him that well, i had met him a few times. He treat immediate well and he accepted me. I wasnt a citizen when they made this offer. Some of us who are very much sort of obsessed by International Politics and strategies wonder what might have happened ifities ago rabin had lived and if ariel sharon had not have had what happened to him happened to him. Rightness because they had a different kind of political courage. Oh, very much so. And they were people who made a decision and stuck with it. Rabin decided to go for peace. And there were lots of setbacks on the way. But he just kept even to the point of shaking hands with arafat at the time. He just kept up with thatnd and sharon surprised everybody by getting out of gaza. And it wasnt clear what was going do next. But it was thought that he might do something similar on parts of the west bank because he understood the demographic argument made, sharon did. He understood that and he understood relations with the rest of the world and particularly with the United States for israels future does netanyahu understand that . Well, hes been more aggressive in pushing the United States and im not sure he had the same appreciation. He lived in the United States for a long time, Prime Minister netanyahu. Rose and when he was out of power he came here a lot too. Yeah so his attitude seems different. It is also a generational difference. Sharon is 20 years older. Rose does it show that keynes was right . That at a bad time you better stimulate your economy . I think so and i think that people who werent quite certain about that should be certain about that, about that now. There was a lot of belief in what was called an expansion refiscal contraction. And the british did that. Some people just simply are focused on austerity. Yeah. Well, however you fiscal contraction sounds better than austerity. Rose it does. But anyway, yeah, and turned out that by all the data, and this is not just people putting their finger in the air this is people actually looking at the data. That the fiscal policy really mattered. And you could do a lot with Monetary Policy. But you couldnt get the economy growing fast again. Rose with Monetary Policy. Yeah w Monetary Policy. You needed the fiscal thats become clear. Rose an there seems to be a floor in terms of how low you could make Interest Rates. Well, technically i think some countries have been playing with how to make Interest Rates negative. And technically you can do that. But it hasnt really been done to any extent that makes a difference. But youre confident, you really are confident that sort of the worst is that sort of that the Global Economy has moved up, notwithstanding some of the emerging economies we talked about. But especially focusing on whats happened in the in the u. S. In particular. Rose more advanced economies. And you are secondly saying that you very much agree with most of the decisions made by the secretaries of treasury and both the bush and the obama administration, and as well as a continued judgement of the Federal Reserve. Yeah. I am sorry to disappoint by saying those things but i think thats what happened. And i think that the very Rapid Reaction of the u. S. Treasury both at the end of the Bush Administration and continuing, and the decision to fix the banks immediately, were critical. And the ability to stay with those programs, when you look at the politics, it looks very hard to imagine that theres been consistent approach but there has been. Rose but as you know also it created criticism here because people said look, they care more about the banks then they care about main street. Yeah, well, im still surprised that so few bankers have been have been holed up for what they did. And its beginning to happen. But its a surprise. Rose you mean in terms of legal action against the banks. By the government. Rose youre surprised there havent been more. My guess is that at the time of the crisis, nobody had enough time to go and look into these things. They want to get on and straighten it out and say well have time to worry about what the longer term consequences are. But yeah, you know, people have to be responsible for some of the things they did. Rose this is maureen daud of the new york times. Summers of our discontent. I have no doubt that Larry Summers can speak truth to power. Indeed, i see him yawn at power. Then she goes on that talk about the possibility of Larry Summers being the successor to ben bernanke. We know that the president went to congress and had a session with some of the members of congress and in a sense made, if not a case for a defense of Larry Summers, who was getting alot of criticism, especially on the democratic side, we know that people frequently point out that janet yellin has a much higher rate of predictions being accurate, than then many others. So who should be the next chairman of the Federal Reserve. And even people who suggest that you would be a very fine choice. Well, on the summersyellin issue, i mean they are both very good economists. They would each be a very good chairman of the fed or whatever, chair of the fed. And janet has more experience in the fed. Larry has more experience in the government. And its very hard for an outsider to know. I would say that larry is really one of the outstanding economists of the euro when he was still an academic economist. He won the prize for youngest. Rose i think it was youngest tenured professor at harvard. And he won the prize of best american economist under 40, and all that. Hes really very, very good. He hasnt done as much central banking. He must by now know central banking very well. And janet is. Rose if he hasnt he has been asleep. And january set a very safe pair of hands. And you want the central bank to be in a very safe pair of hands. So i think both of them would do this job well. Rose do you know did ben bernanke simply not want to stay. De say that look, ive been here enough, or did he feel like that the president maybe wanted to make a change. I actually dont know. And ayes years is a long time. Rose thats what the president said when i asked him, eight years is a long time. Well, i did eight years and i can till, eight years and two months. And i can tell you. Rose you mean running the central bank in israel. Yeah. And ben has done a superb jochblt i think when history is written, ben will be one of the worlds Great Central bankers. Rose one of the worlds Great Central bankers. In history, yeah. We thought at the beginning of this event, at least a lot of the central bankers i know thought we were heading for a great depression. Rose at the beginning, 2008. 2080, after leeman brothers. Rose thought we were heading for a depression that would equal the depression of the 1930s. Something that would take us around there. The Rapid Reactions on the u. S. Both on the fiscal side but also on the monetary side where they cut the Interest Rate to essentially zero. Paulson really went for. Rose on the fiscal side. Yeah, at the end of his term, the end of the governments term. And ben has been innovative throughout. And he has kept the u. S. Economy with the highest Unemployment Rate b 10 , thats terrible. Its not 25 which it was in 1933. And ben has done to my mind really an outstanding job and when i listen as i used to every two months to the central bankers of the world explaining at the bank of the International Settlement what theyre doing, he is a very impressive, very quiet expositier of very brave, policy. Rose has draggy done a good job. He has done a miracle. Rose a miracle. With one sentence he has. Rose he said i will not let or we will not let. We will not let, yeah. Rose is that what it was. We will not let any we will do what is necessary to preserve the euro, is essentially what he said. Rose right. And he changed the dynamics remark blooep. Now he hasnt they havent been called upon to do anything yet. I mean do anything to stand by that. Rose so all those people that thought the eurozone would be split, that all the dreams of sort of both economic, financial and political unity were dying on the scholls of the 2008 crisis were wrong. The eurozone survives, the eurozone i think the eurozone will survive. I think the europeans had to make a judgment decision as to whether they wanted to work with a smaller, inner core 6 safe countries. Or whether they wanted to preserve the existing eurozone. And there was a lot of discussion. And then at one point it became clear, it was over grease that they were not going over greece, they werent going to let it collapse. The reason why, is because of those dynamics. You let one country out, what the market will do to the other weak sisters, you really dont know. And you could be touching off, you could be lighting a flame that is very, very dangerous. And they decided not to do it. And so far so good. There was new data yesterday, greece is actually improving a little bit. Which for the first time. Rose are you encouraged by what mark carney has been saying at the bank of england . I think theres more continuity in policy than people are making out. And i think what hes doing is very good. I thought what his pred ses der was good. Mark is trying to push this commitment sort of bernanke like commitment or fedlike commitment. Rose right. To saying were not going cut the were not going to raise the Interest Rate until unemployment gets to a certain level. Rose who you were an academician, at the world bank, advisor to the imf, certainlies ahead of the central bank and israel, developed a sense that making policy is more fun than studying policy. Well, being an institutions where you make policy on the basis of having very Good Research done, which is what happens in the three institutions. I was the number two in the imf as well for seven years, where you have the ability to ask questions and have really qualified people go out, look for the answer, give you something plausible. It is a fabulous experience. Because you are not just shooting bullets into the air, not knowing where theyre not knowing where they are going to come down. Youre building the knowledge which will enable you to make good decisions. And that is a very nice way of thinking about what economists can do if they are given an opportunity. Rose so asking questions is central. So if you had here sitting at this table the president of the United States and the head of the Federal Reserve, the president of china and the head of their central bank, the president of the Prime Minister of japan and the head of their central bank, what questions would you be asking them . What questions well, on a nice list there, on the japanese, thats the easy one to deal with. He had a 3 part strategy. One in which was to fix the various aspects of the economy, the structural reforms, as they call testimony havent done very much there. Are you going to do these because all this monster monetary stuff is helpful in the short run. You need other things for the long run. That would be his question. And those are difficult things it. Things to do. And then on china, its, theyve been superb. Every time people say this place is going to blow up, they do things. And frequently what they do is expand credit like crazy. Right. And i finally figured out what their banks, how they do this. They tell the banks, you give credit here, there, every well. And the banks do it. If the guys repay, fine. The banks are okay. If the guys dont repay, the government puts money into those banks. And so in a sense, the banks are doing part of chinas fiscal policy. You know. We want to encourage spending here, thats how we do it. And they now think theyve sort of run out of their capacity to do that. And the question is, are you going to go back to the question you asked. Domestic demand. How are you going to get that to grow. They consume this. And the movement of people from the rural to the urban area. Yeah. Rose age do you have some kind of bubble thats possible there in terms of real estate, residential real estate. Right. Well, thats part of the reason they cracked down on credit. And i dont know if they want to stop that. But you know, the system that they have, they occasionally turn out guys who are corrupt as weve seen lately. But the quality of the. Rose they seem to know what to do with them, dont they. The quality of the policymakers is really quite extraordinary. They have got. Rose thats hopeful. I think that we ought to be able to go to some realization that, you know, for china to succeed economically as it has, you know, and make its own state bet certificate a plus for us. And for our economy and our companies and everything else. If they continue that in terms of relaxing restrictions in terms of participation in their economy. Yeah, if they do that, if they become, they will never be a normal country. They will be the largest country in the world for a very long time. The indians are sort of coming up behind them. If they can do that, they can continue to be a critical part of the Global Economy and a very positive contributor to the Global Economy. And they want to do that. Now you know, but in every large country, in any country, there are forces pushing. There are undoubtedly people there who want to be more powerful relative to the United States. And not everybodys focused on the economy. Rose weve got all kinds of problems, Edward Snowden sort of magnified that kind of thing. Kaiferns said keynes said its much better that people should laud lord it over their checkbooks than over their fellow human beings. Rose i can agree with that. So we want them to be interested in the economy and interested in continuing to contribute to it. Rose and on a hopeful note too, back to israelipalestinian negotiations taking place as we speak in jerusalem under the sort of helpful guidance of john kerry, that there is, seems to be this time a real economic component. Yeah. Rose that can very much well make a difference. Yeah, i mean the details of the plan, he wants to accompany this by significant Financial Aid to the palestinians. And that was implicit before but hes made it in the previous discussions, he made a very central part. Rose and hes got back challenge going on, i think. Its absolutely clear that there is a lot going on that were not seeing because until the day they announced they were actually going to meet everybody in israel said kerry is getting absolutely nowhere. Hes wasting his time. Rose and today . Today theyre a little more respectful. Rose and they released some prisoners. And they released some prisoners. And you know, he nine months sounds incredibly optimistic to close this. Rose thats what i cant imagine. To close this process off. Well, he has to challenge these people. The tendency to keep talks going forever and doing nothing is also damaging. Rose thats a finity time, forces people to make decisions. But at least getting something going, just and you know, it will be good for both countries. I think that the palestinians will benefit as much from having the various restrictions that are lifted on their economy, that are, in effect, in place for security reasons. Those get lifted over the course of time it wont happen the first day after some agreement is made. Their economy will benefit a great deal. Its not just aid that matters. Its letting them run the economy of the region that will become the palestinian state, if thats what happens. And in the israeli case, everyone talks about trade with the arab world and all that. I think that the critical part is if there is a Peace Agreement with the palestinians, israelies will feel far more confident about the future of the country and the Economic Future of the country. And there will be more rapid growth in israel, not primarily because israel can sell goods to dubai but because is raems are more willing to invest in their economy. They do a lot of that now. They also invest abroad. And i think increasing confidence in the israeli economy will bring Foreign Investors there, and keep israeli money at home. And israel has done very well. Its grown four or five percent in the last eight years. Could grow six or seven for a decade. It will make a real difference in the area and it would also help the neighbors rdz and you would hope, you would hope that the recognition that a strong and growing and confident palestinian state would make everybody realize that theyve got too much to lose by allowing them to be overcome by fear rather than hope. Well, thats, of course, the ultimate prize. And the palestinians have to get over the hamas fatah divide which is not going to be simple. Israelies have to get over the issue of what to do with those settlers who wont want to continue to live in a palestinian state. Thats to the going to be simple. So this is not an easy process. And it is fairly late in the day it has to be settled fairly soon. But im very happy that they got these talks started. And that the skepticism about secretary of states involvement has so far not been justified. Rose thank you for coming. Its a pleasure to have you hoo you here. Thank you very much. Rose Stanley Fischer, back in a moment, stay with us. Kevin spacey is here. He is an oscar and Tony Awardwinning actor. Hes also the artistic director of the old v, c these never london. This year he has is the star of netflix first original series, house of cards. He plays a scheming politician named Frank Underwood as he navigates his way through washington. He is nominated for an emmy for best lead actor for his performance. Im pleased to have him back at this table. Welcome back, sir. Thank you. Glad to be here. Rose i want to talk about two things. One, the phenomenon of that, and netflix, and then the actual series itself. How did you get involved . What is your role . Im both the leading actor and an executive producer. And it really began when David Fincher got wind, wile we were shooting social network, not shabby as a director at all, while we were shooting social network which you know i produced. David got wind that the rights to this original bbc series house of cards were available. And mrc had them. And so we began a discussion david and i about did we want to Work Together again as ago are and director. We hadnt worked together since we did seven. And we both wanted to very much. And so the idea of this series came. We both went off and watched it again. Because hi remembered watching it. My mother used to love the original house of cards. And he watched it. He hadnt seen it before. He watched it, i watched it. We really thought it could be adapted for the United States. If we had bow williman to write it for us who is our show runner and head writer. And i think one of the things thats been interesting about the Creative Experience ask that by partnering with netflix, which was we went out to all the other networks and all the cable channels. And we pitched the idea of the series. And every Single Network loved the idea. But want to us do a pilot. And david and bo and i didnt want to do a pilot. We wanted to start telling a story. Because part of the thing about, and well talk maybe a little bit about pilot season and the cost of that versus the cost of doing these two seasons of house of cards, part of the problem is that you are then obligated to spend about 45 minutes establishing all the characters, come up with arbitrary cliffhangers and sort of generally prove that what you are setting up to do is going to work. Netflix was the only network that said well, we believe in in you. We have run our algorithms and asked our audience and members would you watch a series that fincher and spacey are doing. And they said we dont need a pilot. How many do you want to do . And we were like, um, two seasons. Now. Rose you said two seasons. Two seasons, so it iss 26 hours. Now a lot of people would say well, that was crazy. It was a big deal am but when you actually break down the craziness of the pilot season, last year, for example, they made 113 pilots. Something like 323 of them 32 went to air, 14 were renewed and most of those arent left. At a cost of 300 to 400 million dollars. So i think that makes our 100 million house of cards deal look costeffective. Rose it certainly does. And i always felt that one of these companies that you saw making huge amounts of money doing an incredible business as a porthole for content was going to step up and say well, if we want to compete we have to get in the business of doing our own original content so it made sense to me that netflix stood forward and took the risk. And the fact that its been a successful as its been, that now these nine emmy nominations have happened, which is the first time that a show thats being streamed has ever been nominated. Although its been available for years, they changed the thing years okay. Rose it marks the coming of age of streaming, doesnt it. Yeah. Its been an extraordinary could lab raise. David and bo and myself and the cast, netflix has been a great partner, mrc has been a great partner. Its been so extraordinary to work on something artistically that is has challenging as this. I think what the audience is saying ask we want complicated stories. We want stories that ask of us an Attention Span that i think for many, many Years Television executives didnt think people had. But its proof. And look, the fact that people are binge on house of cards, that didnt start with house of cards, that started with box sets. You know, you talk to anybody what did you do this weekend. I stayed in and watched two seasons of breaking bad, dexter, i watched mad men. They are he shall did there seems to be this, the audience is telling us that they want the control. And maybe in some ways, by putting out the entire season at once, we are showing that we have learned the lesson the Music Industry didnt learn. Give people what they want, when they want it, in the form they want it in, at a reasonable price and theyll buy it and they wont necessarily steal it. Not meaning that some people wont steal it. But i think you can take a bite out of piracy. Rose exactly. You can and why is game of thrones the most pirated show in the history of television, because people cant get it fast enough so there is this thing that audiences are telling us. Which is they want the control that maybe the days, doesnt mean its over. But the days of leading an audience to a specified time, 8 00 on monday night, maybe those days are not as much in the future as they are in the past. Rose if you put a little of this in your little speech you will be okay. Im putting a lot of this in my speech. I might even quote you, charlie. Rose why not. As charlie rose says. Rose gives a of quality right there, didnt it. Of course. Rose so lets talk about Francis Underwood, please. So you are going to be the actor. You know house of cards. And you know what the theme of house of cards, the original was. It was awhiley practitioner politics who had no morality. I wouldnt necessarily say that. I know you wouldnt that is why i said it. Michael dobs who wrote the original book that the british series was made from, he was margaret thatchers press secretary. When he left the government i think out of revenge he wrote this book. Right. And he based the character in that series called although he changed the name to underwood so the initials are still fu. laughter he based francis on richard iii. And a little bit of viago. That is why in the show the direct address where francis talks directly to the audience is absolutely from shakespeare. And luckily, i had the chance to do richard iii, with sam mendes just before we began shooting house of cards at the old vuc and around the world and we did it here. And what was really valuable about that experience was it taught me how to do it down the barrel of a lens. Because im not looking it in peoples eyes. But i had the experience of 198 performances around the world of looking directly into audiences eyes. And watching the glee of being included, and being made a cocon spirs ter. And so that memory for me is so strong, that now i am sort of treating it, i dont think i would have known how to play it if i hadnt had that experience. But now i treat it as if it is your best friend that youre saying things too, that you wouldnt necessarily share with your wife. Yeah, and i want to share with you my unvarnished observations of what i just heard and saw. Exactly. Whatever was said this is the reality of what just happened. Yes. And i think to some degree its also an interesting thing how in richard 3rd, for example, richard is always turning to the audience and saying okay, im going to try to sing here. Now watch. And then he goes and he does it and he succeeds. And he goes you can believe i got a which with that . And i think that emboldens him as a character. And i think that its also true in the series, that there he is a kind of how far can i push it. And its been very interesting to exist now in the last year, you know, we shoot in baltimore, so we spent some time in washington d. C. We did the White House Correspondent video which we were very grateful to be a part of. I was very happy about that. But its very interesting how people in real politics are responding to the show. Rose what are they saying . Well, i think privately theyre saying its closer than that. Than anyone has ever filmed before. Publicly theyre probably not saying that. But i think there is there, it must be very interesting for the American Public to be watching a congress that is stuck in gridlock and that doesnt move forward. You know, i think boehner the other day as a badge of honor said its not about how many bills we pass, its how many bills we repeal. And to be watching a fictional majority whip in a fictional congress that yes, hes diabolical but hes extremely effective. Rose back to my original question in terms of how machiavellian he was, is your interruption of Francis Underwood that he believes he has to be the way he is because he believes the means justify the end, and his end is okay . Well, we dont know where his end is yet. But i will say this, that. Rose i can tell where you it is, more and more power. I will say this, that i think that he, look, there are a lot of politicians that people would have called or still call ruthless and yet they were remarkably effective. Linda john son was certainly called ruthless by a lot of people. But i also think now there is because of the series of bocks that came out about liss life, a kind of reexamination that well yes, he was this and yes he was that but the fast three civil rights bills in a shorbted presidency. What i liked about the film lincoln, for example s that it showed abraham lincoln, perhaps the most sainted of all president s in terms of the way people view him, they showed him as a real politician, making deals in order to get something passed, that was more important than those little positions that he was giving a whole bunch of people in order to get the votes he needed. What i think people might enjoy about francis as a character is that he has no allegiance. He has no allegiance to party. Its not about democrats or republicans or ideology or passion. Its about opportunity to move forward. That is what he sees. And thats what he does. I think thats a very interesting thing because we have a congress, obviously that is just gridlocked in ideology. Wont move because of, i believe in this and im not willing, and look, we all know the greatest acts that have happened in this country in terms of progress have been because people learned how to compromise. Ive been very impressed with john mccain the last couple of months. Rose hes coming back. He is showing extraordinary ability to be a sane and reasonable voice. Rose so do we say wake up, america this is the way politics works. With some literary licence this is how politics work, you know, and as they famously said about there are two thefernings you dont want to say made, sausage and legislation. Unless its legislation about sausage, and then its okay. Rose but and the point is, is that are you saying that this is the way democracy works, folks. We can go back and i think look through history at great leadership. And leadership that was strong and powerful and willing to do whatever they had to do in order to get something moving forward that actually benefitted peoples lives. Thats, i think, what we all want to see is that things move forward. And i think that we have been in a kind of status quo. That isnt to say that there hasnt been some progress but its a very interesting question that i find the series poses thats all about that morality. I think its fascinating for an audience. So tell me this, you who had a very fine career here and an oscar career here decide that you want to go to the old vick. Literally turning your back on hollywood. You now produce things, this included. The question is, what does kevin want. You know, would you think if you look at it from the outside that i would be satisfied, you know, but im not. I want to do better work. I want to do better stories. I want to be a better actor. That is the within thing i will say about going to the old vick. That i absolutely know that the ten years that i have spent there working with trevor nunn, working with matthew, working on the plays. I have done a play every year for the past ten years. Its made me a better act. Actor. Im a better acker now than when i left. And thank god for that. I didnt stay, and i would simply argue with you that i wasnt turning my back on holly wood. I was walking toward something, not away from something. But i also know that quite often when you get to a place that i got to after march beauty, which was incredible. Rose yeah. That its very easy to then start doing lots and lots of movies you shouldnt do, because theyre paying you lots of money. And because youre trying to keep on those lists and be that guy. And i just went, i did it. I dont have to top myself. I dont have to spend another ten years, you know, cruising that proving that, i did it, i want to make a left turn and go towards something that is not about my career, not about my ambition, is about a company. And ive recently, you dont know this, but when we did richard iii around the world, hi a documentary film crew following us. And i have just now, we cut this documentary about what its like to be a company member. First of all, tours rarely happen in 12 cities around the world any more, number one. But number two, there is something about the act of doing a play every night. What you learn about yourself. What you learn about the play, what you learn about audiences. That i think sets you up and puts you in a position where you are better equipped to understand how you can tell a story on film or in television. Because you understand that relationship with an audience. That is just inherent and unique in the process of doing theatre. So i mr. Going to be very happy to be able to share that documentary. Because it is one of the first intimate looks at what its like to be in a company of actors for the period of time that we did it. Rose and well appreciate all the things you said. I think you really do get to know them as people. And these are many of them. Rose when is the documentary out. Next year. It will be out. Rose does it have a title . Not quite yet. You know, sam and kevins big shakespeare adventure, around the world with im not sure. Rose how are you different as an acker . What is it you know you didnt know if you can put that in words. I can only compare it to sports. Why is it that watching andy murray over the past ten years get better and better and better, and learn how to work in front of a crowd. Rose and fail and fail and fail. Fail and fail an fail and get to a point, when he won wimbledon this year, is one of the greatest sporting events to happen, not, for him, of course, personally, for great britain, for lots and lots of reasons. But when you watch, i use the analogy of sports because thats kind of how we feel, you know, youre getting up every night. Youre playing a game, but its a new game every time are you doing. You are working on part of your game that you werent working on before. The other actors are working with, your partners are changing and shifting and moving and growing. And it is different audiences. And you come every night to learn and get better. And the thing about only working in the film is that you learn to work in two minute segments. And you learn quite often to work in more isolation. You work with one actor 1 week and you dont see him again for near three weeks and then dow another scene together it is about working together with a company of actors every single night. And what that does in terms of creating a family. I put it to this way. In the theatre, its a full meal. And when you make a movie its a lot of appetizers. Rose some people that act in theatre is that actors medium, fill some a directors medium. I would agree with that. Because ultimately, you know, its their paint approximating. Its not my painting unless im producing and i have some say in the final cut. Its their painting and so my job is to heres a great story. I love this story. Jack lemon once told me this story. He said billy wilder once said, he said jack, jack, youre like a locket and jack said what dow mean. He said youre like a supermarket, theres aisles and aisles and aisles of items and choices. And i said i want one of those, and two of those, and one of those and you bring them to the check out and they are on the thing and take them in the bags, they are there, are you like a supermarket. And in i sense, i like that analogy. Youre like a supermarket. You have to be willing to give a director all the choices they might want. And then theyre going shape the performance. Theyre going to decide whether that one line you did, theyre going to use the ironic way you did it or the really harsh way you did it, theyre going to use the quiet way you did it, theyre the one in editing that is shaping that performance. And this in the theatre are you shaping it. No one is shaping it for you. Rose what happened to the directors gene in you . I still have it. And i will without question, i think, ive directed at the old vick, you know, theatre. And i think i will once im done at the old vic which is coming up in the next year, done. Rose why have you marked this time to go . Well, i made a ten year commitment, number one. I will have fulfilled that commitment and done one more year after that, because i look at the first year as a startup year. So i will go 11 years but my sess, with the old vic has been going on 17 years after i leave. Rose and what is life after that. Well, what has begun incredible is that house of cards sort of has begun and we may have a life beyond the first two seasons. So well see if that continues. I am certainly up for it. And then i dont know. I think there will be a whole new chapter im not sure what it will be yet. But its very exciting to sort of have these sort of periods of my life where i specifically focused on a certain thing for a while and shift approximated my focus and did another thichblingt i suspect i will probably do another shift and direct at some point. Dow find yourself pretty good at the business end of all this . I have. The deals and trans, transactions and building something that can can be sustainable . I hope i have proved that ive been pretty good at business with respect to both how my film company is run, with dana and how the old v, c is run. We have to remember we have successfully proved that you can run a major British Institution for ten year was any public subsidy. We get no public subsidy. Rose you raise most of it. I sing and dance all the time for a fundraising. Up andowment now for the set old vic for the future so that the next artistic director didnt have to spend nearly as much time fundraising as i have. Rose lets talk more about house of cards, an this in terms of what it means. Because it seems to me that it means a lot to you. Ill tell you why. Because for a long Time Television was not taken seriously as an art form. And i think in the last 15 years it finally has. Rose all the reasons we said. And it is very exciting to be a part of something that at the same Time Television is finally being seen as a genuine art form, technology has rushed forward at the same time. So the ways in which people are discover t the ways in which people are viewing it, the demands the audience is telling us, theres a tremendous and exciting future about what we can do. And all of the tall sent that out there, this is going to be a big part of my lecture, is about talent and about supporting talent. There is, there have been figures who have believed in supporting emerging talents. You can go back to the days of the studio system. You can look at Grenada Television in london, at the royal court theatre, at the work we did at the old vic and old vic new voices, lock at what the did in keeping that flame alive of the most extraordinary trailblazing storytellers. So it feels like were kind of in a wild west. But we know what works. And weve always known what works. And thats about emboldening and empowering artists and giving that autonomy that fits that the instrument shown they deserve. Rose let talent be talent. Yeah. Rose there is what you told npr. Im better at my job when im directed. What do you want from a director. Because youve got in david well, what i love working with fincher, and i said this about when he works with ive seen him work with younger talent. And will do take after take after take after take. And he doesnt do a lot of set ups but will do a lot of takes. Someone said why does he do all those takes. I said sometimes hes just trying to beat the acting out of you of you. And even for someone like me. You mean move beyond the acting. Move beyond the handles and the ways in and the gestures. Got you. And the props and the stuff you add on. When when david is eibl to dispel distill a performance to the words and what a character is experiencing feeling and wanting and its very clean, you can see that kind of incredible precision with the way he directs actor. I love it because it is like working with someone with an exacto blade. He just saves this or will suggest something, what if we do this, will give me an idea about how to approach a line, a scene, in a way i hadnt thought of. And then he thank god he cuts all the bad stuff out. And all of my swearing when i screw up. How off sen that. Allots. I will suspect there will be a blooper real that could be as long as 13 hours. Well really . Yeah, so in terms of learning politics there is lyndon johnson, you went down and talked to kevin. And steny huher, obviously i know president clinton and ive been around politicians. Rose what does president clinton say about all this. Oh, i love that show, its so good. We watched it over three days t was good. Rose sees that eat thing but. I mean coy v name a list of characters who would respond to the film, like johnny carson. Yeah. Well johnny would say wourx i watch you but its on a thursday, i dont work on thursday. Rose and on and on. Is that still part of your repertoire. I love doing impressions. Its so much fun to a, learn them, sometimes when im doing a hosting thing or a speech or stuff i will try to sneak some in. I dont know, just ive always loved it. You know, it goes right back to i know what it goes back to. It goes back to the fact that i could make my mother laugh. An when i made my mother laugh that was the greatest thing this the record. Is there a certain skill about that and mimicry. I think its really, i mean to me, i dont know if it is true with other people without do imitations but to me its always just about how it sounds to me. I have an ear for how it sounds. And so i am able to watch someone, watch johnny carson, for example, and just know that he had a he had one of those voices that was in the back of his tloet because he was from the midwest. From nebraska. And you know, and of course the gestures and all the stuff he used to do. Great fun. Rose Martin Scorsese had an article, arguing that he with need to stress visual literacy today. Yeah, and hes also done some of in terms of film preservation and trying to introduce the great films to a younger generation. Its funny when you talk to people who are younger and they dont really know anything, you know, before 1980. You really got to go bark and look at some of the great films. Because we are where we are because in large measure that the people have been hugely influenced by the greats that came before. Rose have you ever done a lecture, mctagert will be part of that, but about the Creative Process for an actor . Yes, i have talked about it, and i do a lot of workshops through my foundation as well. And one of the things i do talk about is the process of what its like to be an acker. What it is like to try to create a role. And some of it is you know you have to air your dirty laundry through the course of rehearsal. You have to be bad, fall on your ass and on your face and it didnt work. Its only when you really start to get in front of an audience and you start to feel something and you start to, oh this is not work and this is taking too long, this isnt as funny as i thought it was going to be. You know, its that, its like a breath between an audience. And you know when we are doing a film or television, the crew becomes your audience, in large measure. You know, when you are rehearsing something you sort of Pay Attention to does this seem to be working. An i trust my instincts and i trust cot lab raters that i work with. So you can never just only trust your own voice. Youve got to trust the people around you because they will help you be better. And together we can, you know, distill something to a point where we think it really works. Rose last yes, as you leave the old vic will you come back to america to live. I think ill always end up being both places. Its been such a huge part of my life. Its been such an incredible place to live in. I really love great britain, i really do. I mean theyve made me feel so welcome. And i am just. Rose well, you are a hero over there. But, i will, absolutely. Im here now, obviously six months out of the year while i do house of cards. Rose the series is nominated for nine emmies including best lead acker for kevin spacey. Season two begins sometime in early 2014. Thank you for coming. Thank you. Pleasure to you have. Great to see you again. Kevin spacey, thank you for joining us. See you next time. Funding for charlry rose has been provided by the Cocacola Company supporting this Program Since 20023. And american express. Additiona funding provided by these funders this is nightly Business Report with Tyler Matheson and suzy gering. Brought to you sailing through the heart of historic cities and landscapes on a river. You get close to iconic landmarks, to local life, to cultural treasures. Viking river cruises. Exploring the world in comfort. Behind closed doors. 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