Transcripts For KQED Charlie Rose 20130313

And some temporary solution will be found. Rose like what . Like some sort of as we call it, government of the president that say the government who have the majority evaluating case by case, or you know, with some temporary agreement. One of these solution will be found, another to let the situation calm down. Rose so here you have, look at this. You have, mr. Berlusconi getting 25 of the vote. Yes. Rose a comedy mr. Grilo had 20 percent poster of the vote. Mr. Berlusconi is a comedian and the other person is a comedian. Thats 50 of the vote. Im the person that should not talk twice and hes always lost in the elections. But you know, he made the campaign. Its the same man. Not only telling you i shared the but i skhul give back the tax you have paid last year. Its unbelievable. But in the moment of Economic Crises quite a few but look, he lost a big percent of the vote because he had a very Strong Majority that passed. And then he lost a lot of votes but he was able to give the illusion that it could be the savior in such a difficulty economic condition. Rose who will, whats going to happen to mr. Monti with the vote. Its with but it still in politics. I dont know what he will choose. He will take time in order to reorganize the party. It will be almost impossible that he will be Prime Minister again unless he prolonged it for a limited time. Rose he does not have enough votes to make a it. But the two chambers had the same power. Theyre identical so you need the confidence vote in both of them. This is why you read some sort of compromise lets saying organize by the public. Rose what did you want. I want personally . I was i a happy for the result of the elections but i am not active in the italian politics so i look hoping for a resolution very soon, you know. Rose you really believe there will be a solution soon . Yes. It will be a temporary solution say not for five years but there will be a solution. Rose turning to the euro, whats going to happen to the euro zone. The euro zone its at the end of july but when the two three counties italy is lucky were still a strong industry and experts know that very well consumptions are going down. This is not a certainty because we export well, competition is not bad but because of our the internal demand is collapsing. And this is absolutely out of any lets say rose so how do you increase internal demand . Well, one bit we can do because we are safe from the European Regulation on deficit, you know. And so we cant give but even more i hope i do push that germany and other European Countries they give it is difficult to understand foreign economies. The germans has a big sur plus in trade balance. Enormous, not big. They have zero growth. And they have no inflation. Why dont they stimulate the economy. Because of political problems. Actually they hesitate but i think that in some way its german interest and european interest and we need it even more rose how do you see the u. S. Economic recovery. Better than i was afraid. The last two weeks it was good news. I do hope we go on because when they employ the statistics in the United States, i, you know, i tend to think that weve gone. Rose do you think, do europeans admire president obama . Yes. Rose because . Well, because it shows a symbol of change and novelty. Of course they love, they were more in love with the first election than with the second. But still because its always happening politics. But still more of them another case, you know. Theres some sort of familiarity, you know. Despite we cannot say were the most lets say american president the most interested in europe because it was no, it was far away from europe you know. But he didnt studied in europe, he was not rose he spent his time in asia. But hes left. Rose youre an economist and you come from that issue rather than foreign policy. But you were at the european commission. What does the world do about syria and a war that seems to be becoming almost like lebanon. Well, now theres agreement between russia and Security Council, chinese and so i dont think that can be made. I am testing this thinking that let us consider war now. We go on still for a while. Rose for a while. Yes. I dont see a solution. This is what. Even if some progress was done last week here in rome was working on trying to move the situation. There is not yet everything that is needed. Rose i assume you know john kerry. Yes. I met the first time in europe and i was happy. I was happy because he was flexible. And he you know generally cut through tapes only answer to questions, you know. He was asking, he was arguing, he was very open to the discussion. And intelligent, of course, yes. I would hope that with this human touch he will help the solution. Rose when you look at africa, the same economist magazine has a big story in here about africa, aspiring africa. Yes. Rose youre the envoy. What is your goal . My goal is from say look sahel is a big area. Its a strip 3,500 miles long from senegal to 700 miles large. But is very more genuous in terms of poverty, in term of drug area, in term of lets say all the malnutrition, in terms of child mortality. Its an area of africa that is not moving, you know. And so say let us type at a glance, not counted by counties in the area and link them in order to push the development. This is the long think are. Of course when you have a case like mali, there is some obligation to try to help the process of lets say peace and new governments in order to have, in order to have rose with respect to mali do you believe that the french intervention is achieving the success that it hoped to. To now, yes. And i honestly, im genuinely not to the war but i was in mali at that moment. And you know, the intervention was absolutely unavoidable. Terrorists coming invited 2509 capitol. There was no choice. Now the goals of the war in terms of occupying the north but the terrorists for the most part is them disappearing. And our fear is that will go to libya. Rose theyre coming from libya too. Well theyre coming but libya, you know. Because it was always not evaluated enough because you have such a big area without borders and the terrorists have the best place to grow because you know theres a lot of illegal economy. Because before the wars a lot of money coming from libya. Then after the end of qaddafi, now you increase the trafficking, kidnapping and ransoms. Other activity and so now you have all the society that must change in this poverty. And so the United Nations job is to create some sort of environment. And our idea is to involve local universities, local societies. And so we have the meeting in the first meeting in dakar for putting in order priorities. Say agriculture, decentralizing electrical energy. That must have in africa the portable telephone is a big revolution because of the telephone. And then school, hospitals. But we have to start immediately there, you know. In order to bring sahel, link it to all africa. Because remember that the new event in the world is that Africa Global speaking, not sahel is moving. If you think statistics of china, but after that theres africa. Rose yes. Low base. Low base, of course. Please dont misunderstand me. They are in terrible poverty. Horrible. But when you ten years ago i should have told to you look i am desperate. Now i am beginning to hope, let us say beginning to hope and so the aim of the secretarygeneral is to help sahel link it to other Africa Infrastructure and so on. On the other side we have to collect money to do it. And you have to remember this, that different from syria, afghanistan. Here, you have all the Security Council together because everybody is frightened by the new terrorists. So you have not lets say one day russia you have china, russia, United States going in the same direction. And i want to explore this is high goal and to connect then and adopt procedural very quick in order to make intervention as rapid as we can. Rose its very good to see you in italy. Thank you for letting me visit with you. Its very cold out here. This is beautiful. This is a tuesday and they are now in the Sistine Chapel and theyre probably going to be voting this evening for the first time on this and well have a new pope this week. Well have two weeks whether it will be black or white smoke. Rose there will be one vote this evening and then tomorrow theyll have more. More. Rose its an exciting time to be in rome. I thank you for taking time. Thank you. And i hope you coming back. Rose i hope so too. Romano prodi in italy. Back in a moment. Rose jay bilas is here a College Basketball alice for espn. During is 1980s he was a four year starter at Duke University where he scored more than 1points. He wrote a column that sought to define toughness in College Basketball. That piece drew wide attention. It is now the basis for a book he calls toughness developing true strength on and off the court. I am pleased to have him here at this table for the first time. Hes been on this program many times. Welcome. Why this book and what was it that resonated with people before we define toughness . Well first my teammates will find it wildly ironic that im writing about toughness. Rose why. They might not have associated that with me as a player. When i wrote that for espn. Com, i heard commentators, many people like me pointing out somebody who i think maybe acted like a bully saying well that guys a tough guy. I didnt think thats what it meant. When i wrote the article i couldnt believe the response i got. People literally from all over the world whether they were coaches, soldiers in some instances, edge indicators reached out. Rose because they know how tough it is. Yes. And it length been defined before like that. At least in their judgment. And i started thinking about it that who taught you to be tough and to persevere and to be prepared and to be a great teammate. For me it was coach kay. I had examples from my life growing up but there wasnt anybody that said all right heres what toughness means. When i say we want you to be tougher and we want this team to be collectively tougher, heres what it means. Rose what did he say it meant. Coach kay . Dont know if he really defined it. It became suggest learned by osmosis from being there when a ball was on the floor you didnt bend over at the waste to pick it up. You dove on it. I learned that the hard way. Rose my sense is more than most he understands how to get inside of you and find what will motivate you to be the best that you can possibly be. And find the toughness, find the motivation, find the drive, find you know find the spirit for victory. I think thats true. I think hes one of those coaches and there are others. Hes not alone in that but i think hes at the top of the heap that are able to get you to do willingly what you might not want to do individually. Skip rosser a former coach at lake force such a good friend of mine used to quote emerson is a friend is someone who will make you do what you can. And i think rose a friend is someone who will make you do what you can. Make you do what you can. I may have paraphrased that a little bit but skip said that a lot. He said it to his team. I heard him say it a million times. Coach kay is like that. He has, holds you in accountable. Youre responsible to your job. Youre accountable to the whole. Youre accountable to the mission as the nasa engineer said in the book responsibility to the element accountable to the mission. Thats the way coach kay was. Youre responsible for your job but your mix was to keep the other team from scoring. For us to be in a position to win, thats your ultimate objective. Rose youve got ten chapters in this book to talk about particular chapters, well talk about those and move on to basketball. Trust is number one. Give me a quick definition. I think you have to be tough enough to hear tough things 23r your colleagues teammates and coaches. Thats your test of toughness playing for coach kay. You were held accountable for what you were supposed to do and then if you didnt do it,. Rose you knew. You knew right away. If you were corrected you were expected to act upon it in a positive way. Grant hill was really influential on me in this book whenner talked about teammates have to be able to trust each other so that if the two of us are playing together and i make a mistake and you say come on jay, youve got to do what youre supposedded to do. How am i going to take that. Am i going to take that that charlies getting on me. Well you do your job. Are we going to get into an argument or am i saying all right, youre telling me the truth i need to get this done and we move on. Rose trust youll do that. Yes. Its also a competition thing weve gough to be able to trust each other. Well compete going for the same job. Well compete our tails off every day in practice. If you win the job and youre a starter am i going to sit on the bench and hope you screw up so youre going to win. Thats not what tough competitors do. Tough competitors wont win. Were on the same teach were going to fight every day and when its time to play you go on the floor together were going to unite and play our tails off together and im going to be rooting for you. I hope i go in too. Ill do my job when i get in there though im not going to root for you to fail so that i get a chance. Thats not what competitors do. Rose grant hill you say is a model for overcoming adversity. I think so. Rose thats injury or what . Everything. I mean grants career has been remarkable in so many ways. Hes an incredibly nice person. So nice and tough are not mutually exclusive but when he got the first six inquiries in the mba his numbers were such that only two other players could match them in the first six years across the board but only three bound assists alike. Oscar robertson and lebron james. His first six years and larry bird. Three players excuse me. Rose courage is another. This kind of courage doesnt measure up to those who are in the military and face real threats, but when you step to the freethrow line and you have to hit a big freethrow. That takes some courage. And you have to be confident when you step up. How are you confident. You have to concentrate intensely and steve curt told me he. He concentrated on his routine. Steve told me this story, hes a great shooter but a guy that wasnt always confident and failed at different times during his carrier. He shot a freethrow against the Houston Rockets one game and he thought it was perfect. Form, follow through, the ball went right through the basket it was absolute perfect. And so from then on, in his routine, he had a routine that he stuck to because that was where his confidence came from before he would shoot the ball. He would say to himself houston to put himself in that situation. He had the courage to step up there and accept the consequences of the result, that i may miss, im going up there to make it but i may miss and i dont care. Ill accept it because ive got the guts to go up there. Im tough enough to go up there and accept the consequences for missing. Rose give me the ball. Yes. Listen, steve talked about guys like duane wade or lebron james. He seeing them struggle at times with their confidence. Thats something you have to be tough enough to overcome. You cant do it by yourself. Thats where your teammates and coaches come in that give you that help you with that confidence of belief. You earn the confidence so when you step to the line you know youve put the work in youve done it a million times. Thats when your intense concentration and your routine allows you to be relaxed. Rose ill read the rest of them. Communication, persistence, next play, commitment accept shungs and self evaluation. All of things give you toughness. You said recently about ncaa basketball. It is in a crises state. I believe that. I believe were in a lot of trouble and i believe that for a period of years and ive said it before but now with whats going on in the game i think people can really see it even the most casual observers can see it. Rose whats going on. Our product is not very good. The quality of play has deteriorated. Theres nobody in charge. We dont have, if you have an idea for College Basketball on whose door do you knock. Theres nobody. Theres nobody in charge. Usa basketball is jerry delang low. He is in charge. Decisions are made to keep up with the changing landscape of the game. Usa basketball used to be run by Committee Like the ncaa is. Now its run by injury delang owe and look at the results. Its magnificent. Rose do they need a tzar in College Basketball. I think they do, every different sport needs a commissioner and needs to be valid individually governed. Weve got a game now where its a foul compose are teaching fouling because the referees cant call them on. Theres no hammer over the officials to have the freedom of movement that they have, initially theyve gone through at nba. They have the same problem and they fixed it. We need to fix ours. Rose is that through the referees. I think the referees do by and large a great job. Theyre terrific, great people and terrific professionals. But i think theres a feeling that they cant call all the fouls. Charlie whats happening to basketball right now. The College Basketball coaches are teaching their players to foul because they know that the referees cant call them on it. And now with everybody doing it, youre in a competitive disadvantage if you dont. And if you watch, what players are doing now and coaches are teaching is hands up, keep your hands up and attack them with your chest and your lower body. So guys going up for a shot near the basket and hes being ridden off of his ability to make that shot by being hit. Rose by hitting his chest. Yes. Theyre bumping cutters so a guy cuts through the lane and being wrapped up and timing is being taken out of the game. So we dont have freedom of movement. What the referees refer to is anything that, any illegal conduct, contact that impedes your rhythm speed balance and quickness is a foul. Weve got a bunch of fouls that are going uncalled in these games and its hurting the game. Scoring is down to historic lows. Scoring is down to areas well before the shot clock. Shooting percentages are way down. Theres a lot of contributing narcotics to that. Players leaving early. Its part of it. The fact that the game is a little bit overcoached right now and guys are touching and holding on to balls too. The way i look at it, you can hold the ball. You can look at the clock but you cant hold your opponent thats foul. The referees are the last line of defenses. Thats the thing we can fix. We cant stop players from going pro. We cant stop coaches from holding the ball and shortening games with fewer possessions. What we can do is call the fouls. If we call the fouls the players will stop fouling. If we dont call the fouls theyll foul more. Thats whats going on but who enforces that. All the officials are independent contractors. So if a supervisor or officials in one league says were suspending you because youre not calling the foul theyll just go to another league. What do we do. Rose in the nba, you have they are employees. They are salaried benefit employees. So they can be suspended, they can be fined. Theyre going to foe the line and i think that helps the official. Having a mandate protks them. In a coach gets on an official he can shrug his shoulders. I have to, i dont have a choice. You can argue all you want to but im accountable to my boss. Right now, and this is not the officials fault. This is the administrator. This is our fault. This is sort of the guardians of the game. And we can fix it. Now, it may entail all the big conferences having to pony up in a multibillion dollar business and we need to employ these officials. Rose bring me back to the idea of a commission or tzar for College Basketball. Is anybody behind that idea. I think a lot of people are behind it. Does it have legs is the issue. Who do you go see about that. You can just say who do you go see we need a commissioner. Weve got a president of the ncaa who was overseen by a group of president s. Listen we need to take basketball, basketball provides 95 , i think it might be more than 95 of all revenue through the ncaa basketball tournament. A 68 game tournament. It is gigantic property. For us not to manage it as the valuable business that it is, is almost criminal. Its just wrong. We could do so much more. Rose that sounds like a job for you. I dont think so. My views on amateurs would not be popular with the powers that be. Rose what are your views on amateurism. I look at sort of the amateur restrictions as the athlete is the only person in the universal community that is restricting that we say you are allowed only a scholarship and thats it. No other persons told that. And i think if you put that kind of restriction on you got to have good reason. An at will you tell is not a better athlete, better student better person or teammate by his or her amateurism. I dont think the entire system peters on destruction fft at lots got more scholarship. The free market works pretty well for the rest of us and very orderly would work just fine for athletes too. If we want to restrict them we need a better reason than this is the way its always been thats not good enough. Rose ive got a thousand questions. This book is called toughness developing constraint on and off the court. Jay bilas espn basketball analyst, man who loves the game so much that hes criticizing where he thinks needs criticism. Great to see you. As always. Rose back in a moment, stay with us. Rose ma test is one of the most important described as a self assured artist who can help northern painting well than breathing. Yet painting came easily for matisse. He reworked and repainted his canvas in an effort to as he said push further and deeper into true painting. A new exhibition at the metropolitan museum of art at new york explores matisses new process it is called matisse in search of true painting and it is on view until march 17th. Rebecca rabinow is curator of the Museum Department of modern and contemporary art and shes here to help us understand the exhibition and matisse. Welcome. Thank you for having me. Rose nice to see you again. So tell me about this idea that painting did not come easily. Well, when you think about matisse is one of the most Famous Artists of our tomb. When i give a lecture and say raise your hand if you can picture in head a painting by matisse almost everyone can and yet people think he painted spontaneously and in fact thats not true. This exhibition looks at one aspect of matisses painting process his use of repeated image a where he would paint the same seen maybe two, three, four times and compare and contrast the facts. What worked, what didnt. Was this a better way of adding light to a composition are these colors more successful and its something that he used throughout his career. Rose did he finally get to a point where he said thats it, ive got it, its that one. I think each time each moment he did but he always pushed himself. You never get a sense in his career that he said enough and im done. He was constantly trying out new things. Rose interesting thing about painters for me is painters who will work all day into the night, wake up the next morning and paint over everything theyve done and theyre done, gone forever, gone. Matisse certainly did that. Some of his paintings are like archaeological digs. You can see the breast strokes under the breast strokes and he would scrape out paint and then repaint. But in the 1930s, he hired a photographer to document the conversation of certain paintings and certain charcoal drawings. And he would use these graphs as you werent comparing them to the canvas, had he gotten closer to what he was aiming for, was he further away. In this exhibition they include some of these photographs because its really an exhibition about process, about state of process. Rose thats the point here the exhibition. Help you understand the process an artist uses to get. Absolutely. Rose his own sense of truth. His own sense of truth and whats been so nice for me is the response weve gotten from artists from choreographers, from writers who really respond to the way in which they zimaities pushing himself knowing when to keep pushing himself and knowing when to stop which is i think even harder. Rose was he different than say picasso. Well of course he was different from picasso. They certainly got a lot out of each other. Rose no i mean in process. In process he was different. I think matisse is harder on himself than picasso said. Matisse said when someone praised him he expected no less from himself but when someone criticized him it wounded him to the core. He always pushed him sf. He was never entirely convinced that he had found it. Thats really what the show is about. Rose whenner said, the quote i think was push further and deeper as you said into true painting. What did he mean by true painting. So that is a quote from a letter he wrote to his wife. And i think its about this process, at that moment he was searching for something in his painting and i think his definition of true instant aing evolved and changed throughout his career. What true painting meant to him in 1905 was not when it meant to him in 1948. So the exhibition is organized chronologically and people i try to let the paintings speak to one another so that they can see. Rose 49 canvas. 49 canvas not so big. Rose no, not big at all. Its they manage knowledge. My thinking of this show grew out of an exhibition called the stein collect which is Gertrude Stein and her siblings, americans who went to paris during the first years of the 20th century. Matisse and me cast owe before they were household names. Sarah stein which was richard steins sist in law owned a number so theres one painting in the show called young sailor which was owned by sarah stein. And we know that when matisse painted it he also painted another version of it. He brought them both back to paris and showed them to Gertrude Steins slightly older brother and showed him. And they talked about it. So this idea of pairss one is in owned by the statin museum. There are partners on this exhibition and that was really and that was really another genesis. Its not an exhibition about pairs though its an exhibition about progression. He painted in pairs since the mission of world war i. Its less this idea of comparison but about process and repeated images. Rose what does this exhibition show about his evolution as a painter. It was clear from the first paintings 17899 the year he turned 30 and was considering quitting his career as an artist because he needed to support his family to the very last pictures that he was interested in color and light. And how do you combine those two things in a painting. Rose review in the New York Times Roberto Smith described ma feast in these words audaciously original. Talk about the use of color. Matisse was a great colorist. He used color in very interesting ways. He was aware how his contemporaries used color. In 1905 he and his peers exhibited works that used brilliant naturalistic colors a state might be green a tree pink and magenta. These were shocking to people he would use colors in such a radically different way. Throughout his career he pushed the envelope on color after especially after world war ii when color became as he felt a fad. He said the world is obsessed with color. There were new color refrigerators for housewives. Colors were everywhere. People had to be careful. I had taken him a lifetime to understand how to use color for emotional needs. Rose he said another time he wanted to strip painting of all ine sells and capture the true magic of things. Early in his career he became friendly with a group of philosophers and musicians who were interested in getting down to the essence of their subject. And this is also the same time that theyre seeing african sculpt sculpture for the first time. It combined to the idea not representing an individual person and their personality but the essence. What does it mean to be an 18yearold sailor, what does it mean to be a woman standing on the beach trying to get to that universality. Rose and he also as i remember was criticized because it said he was too influenced by other artists. Early on, early on he was very influenced. He was accused of being a chameleon. Would the true personal tear of mr. Matisse please stand up. In 1905 that happened. In 1905 for the next five years or so he was acknowledged as the leader of the musical painting until of course piccaso decided he would rather have that title himself. Rose as he was want to do. All right. Lets take a look at some of these and begin with young sailor. In 1906, matisse went to collyer which is a tiny fishing villaraigosa through the south of france in the spanish border. There was a teenage boy who lived near him and asked the boy model for just one day and we know matisse took a pencil, literally scechtd figure on his can values and said thats the picture you see on the left. Young sailor painted in whats known as his vogue style, very dark outline, very brushly painted brightly colored strokes. And then he painted another canvas. He took a canvas the same dimensions, the same subject but instead of using the teenage boy as his model his model was actually the first canvas. And its painted in a very different way. Here is a perfect example hes trying to capture the essence of his subject. He brought both of these paintings back to paris with him when he returned in the fall and he showed them to leo stein. And leo remembers that matisse told everyone that the local mostman had painted the second version. He wasnt ready to own it. I think he wasnt so sure because you have to remember back then painting will work like young sailor one was really audacious. It was only the people who were interested in the motion avantgarde paintings, could appreciate Something Like that. So to do something so very different confused people. But it was a moment of transition for matisse. Rose did he exhibit them together. The pairs that we showed was never exhibited together. This was his own very private way of working and he did not intend for the public to see them in this way. Rose when did this sort of when did he stop doing this. Matisse used engines throughout his career. There was no top. You saw him working this way in medium sculpture paper. I wanted to show the paintings. Who was the italian model he painted, law rent. He painted a woman named low rent. She was italian descent and she was the first professional model worked with him for a prolonged period of time. His sons were amaze by her. His youngest son remembered her taking her breaks standing buck naked in the window smoking her cigarettes knowing all the men at the Police Headquarters across the river were staring at her. His older son fell madly in love with her and they had to get him to live town. He created more than 50 paintings of her. In the show we have three. Lorette in a green ground, a moroccan gown. Times hes panning in and zooms out. These are paintings during the war, it was a very cold winter and in the work in the collection in which you see her on a pink armchair in a black background shes seen showing her sheep skin slippers. Rose whats this. In the summer of 1907. This is leluex one and two. Matisse returned to collyer and painted a very large painting of three women at the beach. The subject matter goes back to antiquity the idea of three graces. These an aimed exhibition. There are many possible sources. He painted the first version in oil, and then he made a second version in distemper which is a wirebased medium that is very quick drying and very matt surface like a fresco. If you look at them, you can see he made a number of changes from one to another. He takes out if you look at the negative space between the legs of the woman with the bouquet he changes her position. He said that what he wanted to do in repeating an image was to preserve the essence and yet move further with it. And you can really see that in this pair of paintings. Rose the next is matisse with gold fish. Matisse had his studio overlooking the sun. To the right he had a clear view of Notre Dame Cathedral and to the left the them the police station. The work on the left you see matisses eye. There was the moment of transition between interior and exterior space. If you follow the ridge the curve of the top of the letter, there are pauses and then it repeats itself and youre already under the bridge. Or if you look at the top rim of that jar for the gold fish, its repeated, that curve is repeated by the plant just as they are to take in so what matisse has done so elegantly is moved your eye from the hushed interior to the twilight being outside. The image which is shown just to the right of it shows that same studio interior the same cable same geld fish jar. A few months have passed the plant has grown. This is a picture matisse began all about an interior space and a sketch he sent to a friend he included himself. So if you go to the show and you see this painting, its going to impriest your friends and family by asking them where is matisse. If you look theres a parallelogram to the right. Thats matisses pallet and his thumb is sticking through it. Those are his bent legs right underneath. In you stand slightly to the right of the painting, you can actually see where he originally painted his face in the top right corner. Rose interior matisse. Take a look at that. Again a within dough. He went and checked into a modern hotel and a few days later he wrote his wife. He said it was a gorgeous kay and he was inspired to throw up the window and paint. He painted the Mediterranean Sea but the perspective all the way back into the hotel room right to where hes standing so you see this green chair and yellow base board. He was inspired to make other versions of the painting. One of them is what you see on the right a picture in the collection what you see in copenhagen. But he wasnt pleased with it. What he did when in doubt he would use black. He began to paint over in black. You can see the same olive green chair. The white developy he starts to close the window he added the shutters that you see and he realized how important this painting was. He said with this painting, he happened come to realize that he could create light with black. Rose this is a photograph, documenting his process of painting the large blue dress. This is about 1937. What does this represent. So what youre seeing is on the far right a painting by the Philadelphia Museum of art called the large blue dress. It was during the 30s that maities hired a photographer to come and take pictures of his paintings and progress when he thought he had reached a stage he wanted preserved. So what youre seek on the far left its a photograph of one of the earliest states of this canvas. These arent studies for the painting, these are photographs of the canvas itself. So you can see initially hes showing his model lydia posing in his studio. Theres a mantle piece behind her. That state was in february. A month later in march youre seeing the picture in the middle. Thats how the canvas had evolved. Hes already taken out the mantle piece, he wanted to center her head in front those flowers but he wanted to keep her arm so he could double the size of her hand. And he took out the mantle piece and added this gridlike design in the background. Rose at some point in the 30s he hired a photographer. Early 30s when he was working on the barns collection. A huge mural for dance and they kept moving them around but he wanted records of ideas he had. He used the photograph as he worked to compare them to the finished, to the actual in this case painting to see if he was moving closer or further away from wherever it was he was trying to go. And i think having this photograph also gave him the freedom to scrape down his paintings. Because we know that lydia after she would pose for him she would take benzene and she would literally scrape off the paint and say you really got a sense of his process by looking at these photographs. Which he himself used. Rose but he said at one point he knew where he wanted to end up with a painting. He probably did sometimes i we can see for a fact that other times he may not have, he may have had a more abstract sense of where he wanted to end up. Rose theres also this question that he agreed to use and include photographs at the exhibition, at the gallery magee. Ait in 1945. So after the war there was a large fall exhibition devoted to matisse as france tried to reestablish a cultural hedge moany and matisse was a great artist still there. A month after that exhibition closed six of those paintings that had just been on view were moved to the gallery met. And he had written to matisse about this show and matisse said people know who i am. You dont need to tell them who i am. The only purpose of this exbasic is its didactic quality that people see my process. And so weve recreated three from that exhibition. Rose when you look at all of this and did, what does it say to it, what does it say to you about his place in art . In the 20th century. Well, i think matisse is one of the really great artists. Rose thats why i said one of the great. Is he the greatest for you. I dont think there is a greatest. I think that that is a title that i would argue does not exist. For different people, different artists are important. I think he was incredibly influential, even during his lifetime. That was one of the reasons he agreed to have his photographs go on view. He saw his Young Artists making matisses and he wanted people to understand it had taken him a lifetime to achieve that. That he didnt paint spontaneously. Rose thats what you see is a central theme of the exhibition. That was not easy. He was not a painter. Not at all. Rose there was a struggle to find true painting. You talked about greenberg in his quote that matisse could no more easily help painting than breathing actually that wasnt at all the case. He just made it look that way. Rose what influence did he have on picasso and what influence did picasso on him. Theres a large matisse maa caste try to take the leader he were to use a very current term i would say frenimies. They admired each other at times and competed at times but i think ultimately there was respect. Rose what was his influential period. Matisses . I think his very late period, 1948 these late late paintings has influenced a number of artists like aleck cats who came to view the showed. He talked to me about it i think he paint spontaneously. I wish i had known how much work went into it. It would have made me calmer about my own creation. Like this pressure. You create something so fresh spontaneously, its rarely like that. Rose thats a lesson for all of us. Its a lesson for all of us whether were artists or doing anything else. Rose this is interior with an egyptian curtain. In 1948 and an interior with a black fern. Tell me about this. In the 40s as the allied trains to regain france from the nice. His brother lived in nice and lived in the house of dreams. There was a studio on the something floor overlooking the garden. He painted his last, he created his last painted series from that house and so what youre seeing on the screen are two of those paintings. On the left is the egyptian curtain which he painted in february of 1948. And we talked about color and light. Rose oh wow. To me thats what this pictures about. You get this amazing sense of light outside its winter, its coming in from the window, its actually dematerializing. If you stand in front of the painting you can see the canvas is left bear in certain places and it casts that very black shadow. Its an amazing picture. Next year a painting same month you see the window with the palm tree now in the upper right but its a completely different painting. Still about color and light. I happen to know a lot about his biography. I know that his daughter marguerite was involved in the french distant. She had been captured and tortured by the gestapo. He found out after the war. After i see this painting i see emaciated face menace by this fern and yet i see the color and light and i see the fact i happen to know a friend bought him a leopard skin rug which he stretched to the scale wall to wall compartment. Rose matisse in search of true painting, Rebecca Rabinow do you know either of modern and contemporary art. This is grouped in themes, the government of is an tro pay, the academic tradition revised the use of notre dame and using black to payment painted life. A remarkable collection. Thank you very much. Rose thank you. Thanks for joining and well see you next time. Captioning sponsored by Rose Communications captioned by Media Access Group at wgbh access. Wgbh. Org what if those health foods that youre eating every day are actually hurting you . The cereal with skim milk for breakfast, the decaf soy latte midmorning, that yogurt you had for an afternoon snack. 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