Woodruff good evening. Ifill welcome to this pbs newshour special coverage of the firstou debate between the o major Party President ial candidates. Hillary clinton and donald trump. The stage is set at Hofstra University on long island, new york, where the election is 43 days away the race tightening a lot is on the line tonight, judy. Woodruff it is, gwen. We given first time this is the first time they faced each other one on one. Lester holt of nbc news will be moderating joining us are our regular contributors syndicated columnist, mark shields, New York Times columnist, david brooks and from the cook a political report amy walter. We welcome all you have here for the next two hours. Amy, start with you, what are you looking for . Each has enthusiasm gapp problem, they got to get their partisans fired up for Hillary Clinton its youngan people. O for donald trump hes got to get those White College educated voters back to the republican b fold where they have been. Get those voters, both of them who are torn, dont like either choice they have to pick them. Geep what would you surprise you the most of what these candidates might or might not d tonight . Donald trump dare to be boring . Does he come out sedated . president call and can Hillary Clinton who is a superior deliverer of information, make an emotional connection to the american voters. V woodruff david, what are you on the edge of your seat . I wrote emotional connection. This is not philosophy or strategy thats moment ofte intimacy, that one unscripted moment when unconscious reveals that will be played on youtube over and over again and so its just is he commanding or cruel . Is she relatable and is she seem calmly smart. And its whether people get that vibe the first vibe that will determine. Is this what they know or who they some are. I think its mostly about who they are. For voters at this stage of the game, they are looking on the dias who they can spend the nex four years with, who they want to invite into their home. Many say i dont want either one of them. Ifill a lot of voters. This is the one, maybe thatay theyre not going to like but feel comfortable enough. Fo woodruff mark, people are going to be Fact Checking this debate. Theyre going to be raising questions about whether what either one said. S youre right, judy. What they know, it will be a short evening if we ask the republicans whose Knowledge Bank has been over drawn. D and i think its about eachac case, what does he know, is i command of it, comfortable with it. Who she s. And i think that is really the question. This is agenda politics. Ifill were turning to lester holt. Sponsored by the commission c on president ial debates a nonpartisan, nonprofit organization. Commission drafted tonightsofco format and the rules have been agreed to by the campaigns. The 90minute debate is divided into six segments each 15 minutes long. Ng well explore three topic areas tonight, achieving prosperity, americas direction and securing america. G at the start of each segmentm ill ask the same leadoff question to both candidates they will each have up to two minutem to respond. From that point until the end of the segment there will be open discussion. The questions are mine have note been shared with the commission or the campaigns. The audience here in the room has agreed to remain silence so that we can focus on what the candidates are saying. Yi i will invite to you applaud, however, at this moment, as we welcome the candidates. Democratic nominee for president of the United States, Hillary Clinton. Of and republican nominee for president of the United States, donald j. Trump. [ cheering and applause ] good luck to you, thank you. Thank you. I dont expect us to coverus all the issues of this campaign tonight but i remind everyone there are two more president ial debates scheduled. Ba we are going to focus on many on the issues that voters tell us are most important and were going to press for specifics. I am honored to have this role this evening belongs to the candidates, just as important to the American People. Or candidates, we look forward to hearing you articulate your policies and positions as welll as your visions and your values. Lets begin. Were calling this openingpe segment achieving prosperity. And central to that is jobs. There are two economic realitiea in america today, theres been a record six or eight years of job growth and new census numbers show incomes increased atd recovered rate after years of stagnation. However, income inequality remains significant, nearly half of americans are living paychecn to paycheck. Beginning with you, secretary clinton, why are you a betterin choice than your opponent toon create the kinds of jobs that will put more money into the pockets of American Workers . Well, thank you, lester, thanks to hofstra for hosting us. The central question in this election is really what kind of country we want to be and whatbe kind of future well build together. Today is my granddaughters second birthday so iy think abt this a lot. First, we have to build an economy that works for everyone, not just those at the top. That means, we need new jobs, good jobs with rising incomes. I want us to invest in you, i, want us to invest in your future. That means jobs in infrastructure, in advanced manufacturing. Innovation and technology, clean renewallable energy and small business, because most of the new jobs will come from smallco business. We also have to make the economy fairer. That starts with raising the National Minimum wage and also guarantee finally equal way for womens work. Say also want to see morere companies do profit sharing, if you help create the profit you p should be able to share in them not just the executives at theut top. And i want us to do more to support people who are struggling to balance family and work. Ive heard from so many of you about the difficult choices you face and the stresses that youre under. U so lets have paid family leave. Earned sick days, lets be sure we have affordable child care and debtfree college. Re how are we going to do it . By everything the wealthy pay their fair share and close the corporate loopholes. At finally, we, tonight, are on the stage together, donald trump ann i. Donald, its good to be with you. Were going to have a debate where we are talking about the important issuesab facing our country. You have to judge us, who can shoulder the immense, awesome responsibilities of the presidency. Who can put into action the plan that will make your life better. I hope that i will be able to earn your vote on nor 8th. Is. Secretary clinton, thank you. Mr. Trump same question. Q putting more money into thehe pockets of American Workers, you have up to two minutes. Thank you, lester. Our jobs are fleeing the country, theyre going to mexico, theyre going to many other countries. You look what china is doing ton our country in terms of makingak our product. Theyre devaluing their currencc and theres nobody in our i government to fight them. And we have a very good fight and we have a winning fight because they are using our country as a piggy bank to rebuild china and many other countries are doing the same thing. So, were losing our good jobs, so many of them. Th when you look at whats happening in mexico, a friend of mine who builds plants said the 8th wonder of the world, anywhere in the world, some of sophisticated, some of the best plants. La with the United States, as you said, not so much. Ford is leaving. You see small car division leaving. Thousands of jobs leaving michigan, leaving ohio. As far as child compare is concerned hillary and i agree on that we probably disagree a little bit as to numbers and amounts and what were going tot do but perhaps will be talking about that later. But we have to stop our jobs from being stolen from us, we have to stop our companies from leaving the United States and with it, firing all of their people. All you have to do is stay a a look at carrier air conditioning in indianapolis, they left 1400 people, theyre going to mexico. Ill be reducing taxes tremendously from 35 to 15 for companies. Small and big businesses. Thats going to be a job creatoe like we havent seen sincee Ronald Reagan. Its going to be a beautiful thing to watch. Companies will come, they will build, they will expand, new companies will start and i look very, very much forward to doing it we have to renegotiate ourre trade deals and have to stop these countries from stealing our companies and our jobs. Would you like to respond . I that i trade is an important issue, of course we are 5 of the worlds population, we have to trade with the other 95 . And we need to have smart, fairt trade deals. We also, though, need to have a tax system that rewards work and not just financial transaction. And the kind of plan that donald has put forth would be trickle down economics, all over again. N in fact it would be the most extreme version, the biggest tax cuts for the top percent of the people in this country thaty weve ever had. I call it trumped up trickle down, because thats exactly what it would be. That is not how we grow the economy. We just have a different view about whats best for growinggr the economy. How we make investments thatts will actually produce jobs and rising income. I think we come at it from somewhat different perspectivesc i understand that. Donald was very fortunate in his life and thats all to his benefit. He started his business with 14 million borrowed from his father he really believed that the more youhe have help wealthy people,l the better off well be and tha everything will work out from there. I dont buy that. I have a different experience, my father was a small businessman, he worked really hard. Rd he printed drapery fabric onbr long tables where he pulled out those fabrics and went down with a silk screen and dumped the paint in took the squeegee keptu going. So i whate i believe is more we can do for the middle class, the more we can invest in you, your education, your skills, your future. The better we will be off and the better well grow, thatst the kind of economy i want us tt see again. Let me follow up with mr. Trump youve talked about creating 25 million jobs you y promise to bring back millions of jobs for americans. How are we going to bring backac the industries that have left this country for cheaper labor overseas . How specifically are you going to tell american manufacturers that you have to come back . Well, for one thing, before we start on behalf of my father gave me small loan in 1975 i built into a company thatspa worth many billions of dollars with some of the greatest assets in the world and i say that only because thats the kind of o thinking that our country needs our country is in deep trouble, we dont know what were doing when it comes to devaluations and all of these countries allal over the world especially china, theyre the best, the best ever at it. What theyre doing to us is a very, very sad thing. So, we have to do that, we havea to renegotiate our trade deals. They are taking our jobs, giving incentives, theyre doing things thativ frankly we dont do. Let me give you the example of mexico. They have a tax in a different system, we sell in to mexico, theres a tax when they sell automatic, 16 approximately. Au when they sell into us, theres no tax. Its a defective agreement. Its been defective for a long time, many years. But the politician havent done anything about it. I in all fairness to secretary clinton, yes, is that okay, good, i want you to be very happy. Very important to me. But in all fair tons secretary clinton, when she started talking about this it was really very recently, should shes beeh doing this for 30 years. And why hasnt she made the agreements better . After nafta agreement is defective because of the tax and many other reasons but just because let me interrupt secretary clinton and others, politicians should have been doing thispo for years. Not right now. No because of the fact that wevet created a movement. Ea they should have been doing this for years. Whats happened to our jobs and our country and our economy, generally, is, look, we owe 20 trillion. We cannot do it any longer. Cow r how do you bring back manufacturing jobs . First thing do you dont let the jobs leave. I could name, there are thousands of them, theyre leaving. Theyre leaving in bigger numbers than ever. And what you do is you say, fine, you want to go to mexico with some pore country, good luck, we wish you a lot of luck. But if you think youre going tg make your air conditioners oror cars or your cookies or whatever you make and bring them into our country without a tax, youre wrong. And once you say youre going to have to tax them coming in our politicians never do this, t because they have special interests and it is special interests want those companies to leave because in many cases they own it is companies. So, what im saying is, we can stop them from leaving, we have to stop them from leaving and thats a big, big factor. Let me let secretary clintonc in. Lets stop for a second remember where we were. Eight years ago. We had the worst financial crisis, the great recession, worst since the 1930s. That was in large part because of tax policies that slashed tax on the wealthy, failed to invest in the middle class, took their eyes off of wall street. And created a perfect storm. In fact donald was one of the people who rooted for ther housing crisis. He said back in 2006, gee, i hope it does collapse, because then i can go in and buy some and make some money. Well, it did collapse. Thats called business. Nined Million People. Nine Million People lost. And 13 trillion dollars in Family Wealth was wiped out. Now, we have come back from that abyss. And it has not been easy. So, were now on the precipice of having a potentially much better economy, but the lasts thing we need to do is toe go g back to the policies that failed us in the first place. Independent experts have lookedn at what ive proposed, look had donald has proposed, and basically they have said this. That if his tax plan, which w would blow up the debt by over 5 trillion, and would in some instances, disadvantage middle class families compared to the wealthy were to go into effect, we would lose 3. 5 million jobs. And maybe have another recession. They have looked at my plan and they have said, okay, if we can do this, and i intend to get it done, we will have 10 million more new jobs. Because we will be making investments where we can grown the economy. On take clean energy, some country to go be the clean energy superp power of the 21st century s. S. Donald thinks that Climate Change is a t hoax perpetrated y the chinese. Its think its real did i not and i think its important that we grip this and deal with it both at home and abroad. Sheer what we can d. We can deploy half billion more scholar panels, enough clean energy to power every home. En we can build a new modern electric grid. El thats a lot of jobs. F thats a lot of new economic activity. So, ive tried to be very specific about what we can and should do and i am determined that were going to get the economy really moving again. Building on the progress weve made over the last eight year years, but never go back to what got us in trouble. She talks about solar panelsn we invested in the solar compana our country that was a disaster, they lost plenty of money ony that one. Now, look, i am a great believer in all forms of energy, bute were putting lot of people outp of work, our Energy Policies war disaster. Our country is losing so much in terms of energy, in terms of paying off our debt. You cant do what youre looking to do with 20 trillion in debt. The Obama Administration fromat the time they have come in is over 230 years worth of debt and hes topped it. Hes doubled it in course of almost eight years, 7. 5 years ty go semi exact i will tell you this. We have to do a much better job at keeping our jobs. S. And we have to do much better job at giving companies incentive to build new companies or to expand because theyre not doing it. All you have to do look at michigan and look at ohio and look at all of these places where so many of their jobs and their companies are just movingo theyre gone. I ask you this, youve been doing this for 30 years. Why are you just thinking about this solutions right now, for 3r years youve been doing it and now youre just starting to think of solutions . Excuse me, i will bring back jobs. You cant bring back globs well, actually, i have thought about a this quite a bit. A for 30 years. I have not quite that long. I think my husband did a pretty good job in the 1990s i thinkth a lot about what worked how we can make it again. He the single most ever approved income went up for everybody. Manufacturing jobs went up also in thefa 1990s if were actually going to look at the facts. Ts when i was in the senate, i had a number of trade deals thatha came before me. And i held them all to the same test. Will they create jobs in america . Will they raise incomes in america . Are they good for our National Security. Some of them i voted for, the biggest one a multinational one known as cafta i voted againstin because i hold the same standards as i look at all of these trade deals. But lets not assume that trade is the only challenge we have in the economy. I think it is a part of it. And ive said what people going to do. D im going to have a special prosecutor were going toor enforce the trade deals we have. And were going to hold people accountable when i was secretary of state, we actually increased american exports globally 30 . We increased them to china 50 . So, i know how to really work to get new jobs and to get exports that help to create more new jobs. You havent done it in 300 years or 26 years ive been a senator you havent done it. I have been that secretary of state and i have done it. Your husband signed nafta which was one of the worsthe things that ever happened that is your opinion. You go to new england, you go ohio, pennsylvania, you go anywhere you want, secretary clinton, you will see devastation where manufacturers down 30, 40, sometimes 50 . Nafta is the worst trade deal,ea maybe ever signed anywhere but certainly ever signed in this country. Now you want to approve transpacific partnership. You were totally in favor of of it then heard what i was sayingn how bad it is you said i cant win that debate. But you know that if you did win, you would have proved that that will be almost as bad as nafta. Nothing will ever top nafta. That is just not accurate. I was against it once it was finally negotiated. And the terms were laid out, i wrote about that in you called it the Gold Standard. You called it the Gold Standard of strayed deals. Tr you said finest deal youve ever seen. No. Then you heard what i said about it all of a sudden you were against it. Donald i know you live in your own reality but that is not the fact the. The facts are i did say i hoped it would be a good deal. But when it was negotiated what i was not responsible for, i concluded it wasnt. I wrote about that is it president obamas fault . Even announced look secretary is, is it president obamas fault . Hes pushing it. There are different views about whats good for our country, our economy and our leadership in the world. I think its important to look at what we need to do to get the economy going again. Thats why in. Said, new jobs wh rising incomes, investments. V not in more tax cuts that would add 5 trillion to the debt. But you have no plan oh, i do. Secretary, you have no plan a book about it called stronger together you can pick it up tomorrow. Its at a book store or at airport near you. Were going to move to its because, i see this we need to have strong growth, sustained growth. Gr we also have to look at how we help families balance. The responsibilities at home ann the responsibilities at business. We have a very robust set of plans and people have looked at both of our plans, have concluded, that mine would create ten million jobs. Yours would lose us three and a half million jobs and you are going to approve one of the biggest tax cuts you are going to approve one of the biggest tax increases in histo history. You are going to drive business out. Your regulations are a disaster youre going to increase regulations all over the place, by the way,e my tax cut is the biggest since Ronald Reagan, ig very proud of it. It will create tremendous numbers of new jobs. But regulations, you are going tot regulate these businesses t of existence. When i go around, lester i telll you this, ive been all over. When i go around, despite the tax cut the things that businesi that people like the most is tht fact that im cutting regulati regulation. You have regulations on topn of regulations and new companies cannot form and Old Companies are going out f of business and you want to increase the real guy lakes and make them even worse. Im going to cut regulations but im going to cut taxes big b league youre going to raise taxes big league, end of story. F let me get you to matto because were going to thats that cant be left to stand 30 seconds. I assumed that there would bb a lot of these charges and claims. Facts. We have taken the home page of my website, hillaryclinton. Com turned it in to a fact checker. So, if you want to see in realtime what the facts are, please go and take a look. Because take a look at mine also. I not add penny to the debt your plans would add 5 trillion to the debt. T. I would stream lime then for small businesses. What i have proposed would be paid for by raising taxes on the wealthy, because they have made all the gains in the economy and i think its time that the wealthy and corporations paid their fair share. Just opened the next sessionnt. Could i just finish if you to go our website you take the look going to raise taxes 1. 3 trillion mr. Trump look at her website. Eb no different than this. Shes telling us how to fight isis, go to her website she tells how to fight isis on her website. I dont know general douglast mark car this their would like that very much. Ther next segment at least i have a plan toe fight isis. O excuse me. No, youre telling the enemy everything you want to do. Ou , no were not. Youre telling the enemyen everything you want to do no wonder youve been fighting isis your entire adult life. Thats please. T Fact Checkers. You are attacking a lot were still on the issue of achieving prosperity. I want to talk about taxes, fundamental difference betweenen the two of you concerns the wealthy, secretary clintonin youre calling for tax increasei to the wealthy americans, id like you to further defendant that, mr. Trump your calling for tax puts id like to you defend that. This next two minute answer goes to you. Imers really calling for mar jobs, because the wealthy aree going to create tremendous jobs. Theyre going to expand their companies, theyre going to do o tremendous job. Im getting rid of the carried interest position, if you look its not a tax not a great thing for the wealthy its a great thing for middle class. Its a great thing for companies to expand. And when these people are going to put billions and billions of dollars in to companies and when theyre going to bring two 2. 5w trillion back from overseas where they captain bring money back because politicians like secretary clinton wont allow them toe bring money backs because taxes are so onerous and bureaucratic red tape. Its so bad. D what theyre doing theyre leaving our country and theyre believe it or not taxes are too high because some of them have lots of money outside of our country. Instead of bringing it backit putting the money to workwo because they cant work out deal toan everybody agrees it shoh be brought back, instead of that they are leaving our country to get their money. Mo because they cant bring theirir money back into our country. Because of bureaucratic red tape. Because they cant get togetherg because we have a president tha cant sit them around a table and get them to approvero something. The thing, republicans and democrats agree that thishi should be done. 2. 5 trillion. I think its double that probably 5 trillion that we cant bring into our country, lester, with a little leadership, youd get it in here very quickly and it could be put to use on the inner cities, lots of other things. It would be beautiful. We have no leadership. And honestly that starts with secretary clinton. You have two minutes on same question to defend tax increases on wealthiest americans. I have a w feeling by the end of this evening ill be why not. Yeah. Just join the debate by sayingay more crazy things. Now, let me nothing crazy it is about not letting our Companies Bring their moneye back into this is secretary clintons two minutes please. Lets start the clock again,n lester. Weve looked at your tax proposals, i dont see changes in the Corporate Tax rate or the kinds of proposals yourels referring to that would cause the repatriation bringing backac of money that is stranded overseas. I happen to you didnt read it. I happen to support that in way that will actually work toll our benefit. But when i look at what you have freethrow posed, you have proposed, you have what is called now the trump loophole. Because it would so advantaged you and the business you do. Youve proposed who gave us that dash. This is secretary clintons two minutes. Tax benefit for your family. M when you look at how much for my family . As i said, trumped up trickle down. Trickle down did not work, it got us into the mess we were in in 2008 and 20089. Slashing taxes on the wealthy hasnt worked and a lot of really smart, wealthy peopleea know that. And they are saying, hey, we need to do more to make contributions we should be making to rebuild the middle class. I dont think top down works in america. I think building the middle class, investing in the middle class, making College Debt Free for more young people can get g their education. Helping people refinance their debt from college at a lower rate. Those are the kinds of thingsng that were really boost the economy. Broad based, inclusive growth is what we need in america. Not more advantages for peoplent at the very top. Mr. Trump typical politics. All talk, no action. Sounds good. Doesnt work. Never going to happen. Our country is suffering because people like secretary clinton have made such bad decisions in terms of our jobs and in terms of what is going on. Now, look, we have the worst revival of an economy since the Great Depression and, believe me, were in a bubble right now. And the only thing that looksks good is the stock market but if you raise Interest Rates even as little bit thats going to comea crashing down. Ng we are in a big, fat, ugly bubble. We better be awfully careful, we have a fed that is doingng political things, this janet yellen of the fed, they are doing political, keeping Interest Rates at this level,hi the day obama goes off, he leaves, he goes out to the golf course for the rest of his lifes to play golf, when they raise Interest Rates, youre going tot see some very bad things happen. Because the fed is not doingo their job, the fed is being more political than secretaryan clinton. Mr. Trump were talking abou the burden on americans have too pay yet you have not released your tax returns. The reason nominees have released their returns for decades is that voters will know if their potential president owes money to, who he owes it to and any business conflicts. Co dont americans have a right to know if there are any conflicts of interest . I dont mind releasing. R im under routine audit it will be released as soon as youd sit finished it will be released. You will learn more about donald trump is by going down to the federal elections where i filed a 104 page essentially Financial Statement of sorts, forms that they have. Th it shows income, in fact the income i just looked today, the income is filed at 694 million for this past year. 694 million. Would you have told me i wasve going to make that 15 or 20 years ago i would have been very surprised built thats the kindu of thinking that our country needs. When we have a country that isis so badly that is being ripped off by every single country in the world, its the kind of thinking that our country needs. Because everybody, lester, we have a trade deficit with all oo the countries that we do business with, of almost 800 billion a year. You know what that is . That means who is negotiatingeg these trade deals . We have people that are political hacks negotiating ourg trade deals. The i. R. S. Has audit of your taxes perfect ly free to release your taxes during an audit. A so the question, does the public have right to know outweigh your i fold you i will release them as soon as audit look, ive been under audit almost for 15 years. I know a lot of wealthy peopleeo that have never been audited. I said you get audited, i get ought it almost every year. In a way shy be complaining, i not even complaining i dont mind it. I almost become a way of life. I i get todd it by i. R. S. But other people dont. I will say this. We have a situation in this country that has to be taken care of. I will release my tax returns against my lawyers wishes. When she releases her 33,000 emails that have been deleted,l as soon as she releases them i will release i will release my tax returns and thats against my lawyers they say t dont do it. I will tell you this, in fact, watching shows, reading the papers, almost every lawyerst says, you dont release your returns until the audit is complete. When the youd sit complete ill do it. I would go against them if she releases her its negotiable . Its not negotiable. No. Let her. Release emails. Why did she elite 33,000. Ill let let me admonish audience one more time we did ask you to be silent it would be helpful for us, secretaryfo clinton. I think youve just seen another example of bait and a switch here. So 40 years everyone run for president has released their tax return. You can go see nearly i think 39, 40 years of our tax returns. But everyone has done it. We know the i. R. S. Has made clear theres no prohibition on releasing it when youre under audit. You have to ask yourself, why wont he release his tax returns . I think there may be couple of reasons. First, maybe hes not as rich as he says he is. Second, maybe hes not as charitable as he claims to be. Third, we dont know all of his business dealings, but we have been told through investigative reporting that he owes about 650 million to wall street and foreign banks. Or maybe he doesnt want the American People. You watching tonight, to know that hes paid nothing in federal taxes because the only years thatus anybody has ever sn were couple of years when he had to turn them over to state authorities when he was trying get that casino license they showed he didnt pay any federal income tax. So. That makes me smart. That means zero for troops, zero for vets. Zero for schools. O or health. And i think probably hes not all that enthusiastic about is having the rest of our country see what the real reasons ares because it must be something really important. Even tear table hes trying to hide. Ta and the Financial Disclosure statement, they dont give you the tax rate. They dont give you all the details that tax returns would. And it just seems to me that this is something that the American People deserve to see and i have no reason to believe that hes ever going to release his tax returns. Because there is something hes hiding. And well get, well keepl guessing what it might be that hes hiding, but i think the question is, were he ever to get near the white house, what would be those conflicts . Se who does he owe money to . Well, he owes you, the answersrs to that she provide them. He also raised issue of your emails, you want to respond to that . I do. I made a mistake using a private email. And if i had to do it over again i would obviously do it differently. But im not going to make anyan excuses, it was a mistake, i take responsibility for that. Mr. Trump . That was more than a mistake. That was done purposely, okay. , that was not a mistake, that was done purposely. When you have your staff taking the fifth amendment, taking the fifth, so theyre not prosecut prosecuted. When you have man that set up the illegald e server taking te fifth, i think its disgraceful. And believe me, this country thinks its dis really think itshi disgraceful also. O as far as my tax returns, you dont learn that much from tax returns, that i can tell you. You learn a lot from Financial Disclosure. You should go down takem a look at that. The other thing, im extremely under leveraged. They report that said 650, a lot of friends of mine that know mym business thats not a lot of o money, its not a lot of money relative to what i had. Buildings that were in question they said in the samee report, which was actually wasnt even a bad story to be honest with youy but the buildings are wort 3. 9 billion. And the 650 isnt even on that. But its not 650. Its much less than that. T. But i could give you a list of o banks, if that would help you would give you list of banks, these are very fine institutions, very fine banks if could do that very quickly. I am very underleveraged i have a great company, a tremendousou income. The reason i say that, is not any braggadocious way, its because its its about time that this country had somebody running it that has an idea about money. We have 20 trillion in debt and our country is a mess, its oneo thing to have 20 trillion inri debt and our roads are good, our bridges are good and everything is in great shape, our airports are from a third world country. O you land in laguardia, kennedy, lacks, newark, you come in from dubai and qatar she incredible,n come in from china, see incredible airports, you land, weve become a third world country. The worst of all things have happened. We owe 20 trillion and were a mess. We havent even started. Weve spent 6 trillion in the middle east, according to a report that i just saw. T whether its six or five, but it looks likes its six. 6 trillion in the middle eastas we could have rebuilt pour country twice. Its really a shame, its politicss like secretary clinton that have caused this problem. Our country has tremendous problems. Were a debtors nation, were serious debtor nation, we have a country that needs new roads, new tunnels, new bridges, new airports, new schools, new hospitals. We dont have the money becausec its been squandered on so many of your ideas. Maybe because you havent paid any federal income tax for a lot of years. It would be squandered, too. If your main claim to be president of the United Statesid is your business, then i think t we should talk about that. Your Campaign Manager said that you built a lot of businesses on the back of little guys. And indeed, i have met a lot of the people who were stiffed by you and your businesses, donaldl i have met dishwashers, painte painters, architects, glass installers, marble installers, drapery installers, like my dad was. Er who you refused to pay when they finished the work that you asked them to d. We have an architect in the audience who designed one of your club houses at one of your golf courses. Its a beautiful facility. It immediately was put to use. And you wouldnt pay what the man needed to be paid what hed was charging maybe he didnt do a good job i was unsatisfied with his work. Which our country should do, too. For the thousands of people that you have stiffed over the courseve of your business, notin deserve some kind of apology, k from someone who has taken their labor, taken the goods that they produced and then refused to pay them. I can only say that im certainly relieved that my late father never did business with you. He provided a good middle class life for us. But the people he worked for, he expected the bargain to be kept on both sides. And when we talk about your business, youve taken business bankruptcies six times. There are lot of great Business People that have never taken bankruptcy once. Ru you call yourself the king of debt. You talk about leverage, you even at one time suggested that you would try to negotiate down the wrong. Thee National Debt of the United States. Well, sometimes theres not a direct transfer of skills from business to government. But sometimes what happened in business would be really bad fod government. I do think its look, its all words. Al its all sound bites. I built unbelievable company. Some of the greatest assets anywhere in the world, real w estate assets anywhere in the world beyond a the united statee in europe, lots of different places. Unbelievable company. But on occasion, four times, we used certain laws that are there and when secretary clinton talks about people that didnt get paid, first of all, they did ged paid a lot. But taking advantage of the laws of the nation, if you want to change the laws, youve been there along time, change the laws. But i take advantage of the lawt of the nation. Because im running a company, my obligation right now is to do well for myself, my family, my employees. And my companies. I do. What but what she doesnt say is that tens of thousands of people that are unbelievably happy, that love me. Ve ill give you an example. We just opening up on o pennsylvania avenue right nextne to the white house, so if i dont get there one way imt going to get to pennsylvania avenue another. But were opening the old post office. Underbudget, ahead of schedule,l save tremendous money, im a year ahead of schedule thats what this country should be doing. We build roads they cause two and three and four times whatim they are supposed to cost. We buy products for military costs that are so far above what they are supposed to be because we dontre have people that knoa what theyre doing. Oi when we look at the budget, the budge set bad to a large extent because we have people that have no idea as to what to do and how to buy. The Trump International is wayy under budget and way ahead of schedule. And we should be able to do that for our country. Were well behind schedule i want to move to our next segment. We move into our next segment talking about americas direction. Lets start by talking about race. The share of americans who say Race Relations are bad in this country, highest its been in decades. Much of it amplified by shootings of African Americans by police. As weve seen recently in charlotte and actual virginia race has been a big issue, one of you is going to have to bridge a very wide and bitter gap. How do you heal the divide . Secretary clinton you get two minutes on this. Well, youre right. Race remains a significant challenge in our country. Unfortunately race stille determines too much. Often determines where peopleeo live, determines what kind of education in their Public Schools they can get and, yes, it determines how theyre treated in the criminal Justice System s. Te we just seen those o tragic examples in both tulsa and charlotte. And weve got to do several things at s the same time. We have to restore trust betweet communities and the police. We have to work to make sure s that our police are using the best training, the best techniques that theyre well prepared to use force only when necessary. Or everyone should be respected by the law and everyone should e respect the law. Light now thats not the case in a lot of our neighborhoods. So, i have every since the first day of my campaign, called for criminal justice reform. Ive laid out a platform that i think would begin to remedy some of the problems we have in the criminal Justice System. But we also have to recognize ii addition to the challenges that we face with policing, there are so many good, Brave Police Officers who equally want reform. So we have to bring communities together in order to begin working on that as a mutual goal. And weve got to get guns out ot the hands of people who should s not have them. The gun epidemic is the leadinga cause of death of Young African american men. More than the next nine clauses put together. We to restore trust, work withru the police, make sure they t respect the communities and the communities respect them. And we have to tackle the plague of gun violence which is a big contributor to a lot of the problems that were seeing today. Mr. Trump you have twotw minutes, how do you heal the divide . First of all secretary clinton doesnt want to use a couple of words. Thats law and order. We need law and order. If we dont have it, were not going to have a country. And when i look at whats going on in charlotte, a city i love, a city where i have investments when i look at what is going ono throughout various parts of our country, whether its i canhe just keep naming them all day long. We need law and order in our country. And i just got today the, as you know endorsement of the fraternal order of police, whicl just came in. We have endorsements from i think almost every police group, a large percentage in the United States. We have a situation where were have our inner cities African American, hispanics, are living in hell because its so dangerous. You walk down is the, you getis shot. In chicago, they have had thousands of shootings, thousands since january 1st. Thousands of shootings. Where is this . Is this a wartorn country, where are we doing . D we have to stop the violence, we have to bring back law and order in a place like chicago wherer thousands of people have been killed. Thousands, over the last number of years. In fact almost 4,000 have beenen killed since barack obama became president , almost 4,000 peoplelm in chicago have been killed. We have to bring back law and order. Now, whether or not in a place like chicago you do stop and frisk which worked very well, mayor guiliani is here, worked very well in new york, brought the crime rate way down. D you take the gun away from criminals that shouldnt be everything it. We have gangs roaming the streets, in many cases theyre illegally here, Illegal Immigrants they have guns. Un they shoot people. We have to be very strong. And we have to be very vigilant. We have to know what were doing. Right now our police in many cases are afraid to do anything. We have to protect our inner cities, because African American communities are being decimated. Your two minutes expired. I do want to follow up. Stop and frisk was ruled unconstitutional in new york becauseon largely singled outle black and hispanic young men. No, youre wrong. It went before a judge who was a very against police judge. It was taken away from her and our mayor, new mayor, refused t go forward with the case. It would have won our appeal. Throughout the country. Argument is that its a form of racial profiling. Ia argument is that we have to take guns away from these people that have them and that are bad people that shouldnt have them. These are felons people that are bad people that shouldnt be when you have 3,000 shootings in chicago, from january 1st, when you have 4,000 People Killed in chicago by guns from the beginning of the presidency of the barack obama his hometown, you have to have stop and frisk. You need more police. You need a Better Community relations, you dont have Good Community relations in chicago. Its terrible. I have property there, its terrible what is going on in chicago. Chicago is not the only you go to ferguson, so many different places, you need better relationships, i agreeat with secretary clinton on this. You need better relationshipsl between the communities and the police. Because in some cases, its a nt good. But you look at dallas where the relationships were really studied, the relationships were really a beautiful thing and then five Police Officers werepo killed. One night, very violently. So, theres some bad thingss going on. On some really bad things. Secretary clinton we need law and order in the inner cities because the people that are most affected by whats happening are African Americanme and hispanic people. And its very unfair to them t what our politicians are allowing to happen. Secretary clinton. En well, ive heard donald say this at his rallies and its really unfortunate that he paid such a dire, negative picture of black communities in our country. Co the vibrant see of the black church, the black businessesus that employ so many people. The opportunities that so many families are working to provide for their kids, theres a lot that we should be proud of and we should be supporting and lifting up. But we do always have to make sure we keep people safe. There are the right ways of o doing it and then there are ways that are ineffective. Stop and frisk was found to be unconstitutional. And in part because it was ineffective. It did not do what it needed to do. Now, i believe in Community Policing and in fact Violent Crime is one half of what it was in 1991. Property crime is down 40 . We just dont want to see it i creep back up. Weve had 25 years of very good cooperation, but there were some problems. Some unintended consequences. Nc too many Young African americanc and latino men ended up in jail for nonviolent offenses and itn just a fact. St that if youre a Young Africanc american man, and you do the same thing as a young white man, you are more likely to be arrested, charged, convicted and incarcerated. So, weve got to address the systemic racism in our criminal Justice System. We cannot just say, law and order. We have to say, we have to come forward with a plan that is going to divert people from the criminal Justice System, deal with mandatory minimum sentencen which have put too many people away for too long for doing too little. Need to have more Second Chance programs. Im glad that were ending private prisons in the federal system. I want to see themde ended inmet state system. Shouldnt have a profit motivation to fill prison cells with young americans. So, there are some positive ways we can work on this. And i believe strongly that common sense gun Safety Measures would assist us. Right now, this is something donald has supported along withn the gun lobby, right now weve got too many militarystyle weapons on the streets in a lot of places, our police are outgunned. We need comprehensive background checks. And we need to keep guns out of the hands of those who will do harm and we finally need to pass a prohibition on anyone who iso on the terrorist watch list from being able to buy a gun in our country f. Youre too dangerousn to fly, you are too dangerous to buy a gun. There are things we can do and we ought to do it in a bipartisan say. Secretary clintonbi you saido weve got to do everythingve possible to improve policing to go right at implicit bias. Do you believe that police are implicitly biased against black people . Lester, i think implicit biab is problem for everyone not just police. I think unfortunately, too manyn of us in our great country jump to conclusions about each other. And therefore, i think we need all of us to be asking hard questions about, you know, why am i feeling this way. But when it comes to policing, since it can have literally fatal consequences, i have said in my first budget, we would put money into that budget to help us deal with implicit bias by retraining a lot of our Police Officers, i met with a group of very distinguished, experienced Police Chiefs a few beaks ago. They admit its an issue, theyue got a lot of concerns. Mental health is one of the h biggest concerns, because now police are having to handle a lot of really difficult mentalen Health Problems on the streets. They want support, they want more training, they want more assistance. And i think the federal f government could be in a position where we would offerer and provide that. Id like to reglommed please. First of all, i agree and lot of people even within my own party want to give certain rights to people on watch lists and no fly lists. I agree with you. When a person ish on a watch lt or no fly list, have endorsement of the nra which im very proud of these are very, very good people. They are protecting the second amendment. But i think we have to look very strongly at no fly lists and watch lists and when people are on there, well help them legally, help them get off. But i tend to agree with that. T quite strongly. I do want to bring up the factg you were the one that brought up the word super predator about young black youth. And thats a term that i think was its ha horribly met, youve apologized for it. It but i think it was a terribleer thing to say. And when it comes to stop andt frisk you talk about taking guns away, im talking about taking guns away from gangs and people that use them and i dont think i really dont thinknk you disagree with me on this if you want to know the truth. Maybe theres political reason why you cant say it. But i really dont believe. In new york city, stop and frisk, we had 2,200 murders and stop and frisk brought it down to 500 murders. Thats a lot of murders. Hard to believe, 500 is like supposed to be good . But we went from 2,200 to 500 and it was continued on by mayor bloomberg and it was terminated by current mayor. But stop and frisk had a tremendous impact on the safety of new york city. Tremendous beyond belief. En so when you say it has no impact, it really d. It had aa very, very big impact. Well, its also fair to say if were going to talk about mayor, is that under the current mayor, crime is continued to drop including murders. Youre wrong. No, im not. Murders are up. New york has i give credit across the board going back two mayors, two Police Chiefs, becausers it has worked. And other communities need to come together to do what will w work as well. One murder is too many. But it is important that we learn about what has been effective and not go to thingsth that sound good, that really did not have the kind of impact that we would want. Who disagrees with keeping neighborhoods safe . But lets also add, no one should disagree about respecting the right of young men who live in those neighborhoods. And so we need to do a better job of working again with the communities, safe communities, business communities as wellm as the police to try to deal with this problem. This conversation about race, mr. Trump i have to ha id like to just respond if i might. 20 seconds. Then ive got to i will. The African American communityri has been let down by a politicians, they talk good arounds, election time like rigt now. Me after the election they say, sey you later, see you in four years. The African American community the Community Within the inner cities has been sowi badly treated, they have bn abused and used in order to get votes by democrat politicians because thats what it is. They have controlled these communities mr. Trump i disagree. I will tell you, you look ata the inner cities i just left detroit, i just left philadelphia, i just youves seen me ive been all over the place. You decided to stay home. Thats okay. But i will tell you, ive been all over. Ive met some of the greatestes people ill ever meet withint these communities and they are very, very upset with what their politicians have told them what happened their politicians have done. Av mr. Trump i think that donald just criticized me for preparing for this debate. And yes, i did. You know what else i prepared for . I prepared to be president. I think thats a good thing. [ applause ] mr. Trump for five years you perpetuated a false claim that t the president was not a naturalr born citizen, you questioned his legitimacy, in the last couplein of weeks you acknowledge what most americans have accepted fo years that president was born in the United States. Can you tell us what took you so long . I just very simple to say. Sidney blumenthal works for the campaign, very close friend of secretary clinton. And her Campaign Manager, patty doyle went to her campaign against president obama, fought very hard and you can go look it up, you can check it out, if you look at cnn this past week, patty doyle was on wolf blitzer, saying that this happened. Blumenthal sent a highly respected reporter to kenya to find out about it. They were pressing it very hardr she failed to get the birth certificate. When in got involved i didnt fail. Wh i got him to give the birth certificate. So, im satisfied with it. It ill tell you why im satisfied with it that was a because i want to get on to defeating isis, to get on to create jobs, to get on to having strong border. St because i want to get on to things that are very importantry to me and that are very important to the country. To ill let you respond. Its important. S i just want to get the answer here. Birth certificate was producede in 2011 you continued to telll the story and question the president s legitimacy in 2012, 13, 14, 15 as recently as january. The question is, what changed your mind . Nobody wast pressing it. Nobody was tear caring much i figured youd ask the questionn tonight, of course. But nobody was caring much about it. But i was the one that got him to produce the birth certificate. And i think i did a good job. Secretary clinton also fought it, now everybody in mainstream going to say, thats not true. But its true. Sidney blumenthal sent the reporter, you. Jon have to take a look at cnn, the last week, the interview with your former Campaign Manager she was involved. But just like they cant bring back jobs she cant produce. I will let you respond to that because theres a lot a there. Were talking about racial healing in this segment. What do you say to american it. Was very i say nothing. Because i was able to get him to produce it he 1450 have produced it long time before. I say nothing. I let me just tell you. When you talk about healing, i think that ive developed very, very good relationships over the last little while with the African American community. I think you can see that. And i feel that they reallyea wanted me to come to that conclusion. And i think i did a great job and great service, not only for the country but even for the president in getting him to produce his birth certificate. Secretary clinton . Well, just listen to what you heard. Clearly he knew he was going ton stand on this debate stage and lester hold so he tried to put the whole racist birther lie to bed. But it cant be dismissed thatm easily. He has really started his political activity based on this racist lie that our first black president was not an american citizen. There was absolutely no evidence for it. But he persisted, he persistedst year after year, because some of his supporters, people that he was trying to bring into his fold apparently believed it or wanted to believe it. But remember, donald started his career back in 1973 being suedd by the Justice Department fortm racial discrimination. Because he would not rent apartments in one of his developments to African Americans that he made sure that the people who worked for him understood that was the policy. He actually was sued twice by the Justice Department. So, he has a long record of engaging in racist behavior. And the birther lie was a very hurtful one. Barack obama is a man of great dignity, and i could tell how much it bothered him and annoyen him that this was being touted and used against him. I but i like to remember what Michelle Obama said in her amazing speech at our Democratic National convention. When they go low, we go high. And barack obama went high despite Donald Trumps best b efforts to bring him down. Mr. Trump you can respond then well move on. Id love to respond. Es first of all i got to watch in preparing for this debate against barack obama you treated him with terrible disrespect. And i watched the way you talk now about how lovely everything is. How wonderful you are. Ng doesnt work that way. You were after him, you were y trying to even september out sent out pictures of him in a certain garb, very famous pictures i dont think you can deny that. Pi but just last week your Campaign Manager said it was true. So when you tried to act holier than thou it really doesnt work. As far as the lawsuit, yes, when i was very young i went into my fathers company, a company in brooklyn, we along with many, many other companies throughout the country, federal lawsuitws were sued. We settled the suit with zero, with no admission of guilt. It was very easy to do. But they sued many people. You bring that up a lot, i also notice very nasty commercials that you do on me in so many different ways which i dont doo on you. Y maybe im trying to save the money. But frankly, i look at that and i say, isnt that amazing, because i settled that lawsuit with nows admission of guilt. But that was lawsuit brought against many real estate firms and its just one of those things. Ill go one step further. In palm beach, florida, tough community, brilliant community, a wealthy community, probablyab the wealthiest community there is not world, i opened a club and really get great credit for it. No discrimination against African Americans, against muslim, against anybody. And its a tremendously successful club. Im so glad i did it. And i have been given great credit for what i did. D im very, very proud of it. Thats the way i feel. That is the true way i feel. Our next segment is called securing america we wanted to start with that 21st century war happening every day in this country. Ours institutions are under cyberattack, our secrets arecy being stolen, my questions who is behind it and how do we fight it . Secretary clinton, the answer goes to you. Well, i think cybersecurity, subjecter warfare will be one oe the Biggest Challenges facingge the next president because clearly were facing at this point, two different kinds of adversary. Y. They are independent hacking groups that do it mostly for commercial reasons, to try to t steal information that they thet can use to make money. But increasingly, we are seeing cyberattacks coming from states, the most recent and troubling of these has been russia. Theres no doubt now that russia has used cyberattacks againstag all kinds of organizations inti our country, i am deeply concerned about this. I know donald very praise worthr of vladimir putin, but pout is b in playing a tough, long game here. And one of the things hes done is to let loose cyberattackers to, hack in to government filesf to hack in to personal files,so hack into the Democratic National committee. We recently have learned that this is one of their preferred methods of trying to wreak havoc and collect information. T we need to make it very clear, whether its russia, china, iran or anybody else, United States has much greater capacity. C and we are not going to sit idl by and permit state actors to go after our information. Our private city council for information or our Public Sector information. Bl and were going to have to make it clear that we dont want to use the kinds of tools that we have. We dont want to engage in a different kind of warfare. But we will defend the citizens of this country. And the russians need to t understand that. They have been treating it as a probing, how far will we go. How much will we do . Thats why i was so shocked when donald publicly invited pout in to hack into americans. Lian that is just unacceptable. One of u the reasons why 50 National Security officials who served in Republican Administration two minutes expired. Donald is unfit to the commander in chief. Comments like that, that really worry people who understand the threats that we face. Mr. Trump you have twoou minutes in the same question. I do want to say that i was just endorsed and more coming next week, it will be over 200 admirals, many here, admirals and generals endorsed me to leal this country. That just happened. E many more are coming. Im very proud of it. In addition i was just endorsedn by ice, they never endorsedn anybody before on immigration. And the Border Patrol agents when secretary clinton talksli about this ill take the admirals ill take the generals, any day over the political hack, is that i see that have led our country so brilliantly over the last ten years with theirit knowledge. Okay . Because look at the mess that were in. Look at the mess that were in. As far as the cyber, i agree to parts of what secretary clinton said. We should be petter better than anybody else, perhaps were not. I dont think anybody knows it waswedo russia that broke into e dny, she said russia, rusha russia, maybe it was. It could be russia but it couldo also be china or lots of other people. Also could be somebody sitting on their bed that weighs 400 pounds. You dont know who broke in to dnc. But what did we learn with dcc . We learned that Bernie Sanders was taken advantage of by your people. By debby waserman schulz. Bernie sanders was taken advantage of. Whether that was russia, china,h another country, we dont know, because the truth is under president obama we have lost control of things that we used to control over. We came in with internet, we w came up with the internet. I think secretary clinton and myself would agree very much a when you look at what isis is doing with the internet theyre beating us at our own game. N isis. We have to get very, very tough on cyber and cyberwarfare. It is a huge problem. I have a son, hes ten years old. He has computers. He is so good with his computeru its unbelievable. The security aspect much cyber is very, very tough. Ou and maybe its hardly do doable. But i will say, we are not doing the job we should be doing. But thats true throughout our whole government tall society. We have so many things that we have to do better, lester. Certainly cyber is one of them. Secretary clinton . I think there are a number of issues that we should be addre addressing. I have put forth a plan to defeat isis. It does involve going after them online, i think we need to do much more. O with our Tech Companies to prevent isis and their operate tiffs from being able to use the internet radicalize, even direct people in our country and europe and elsewhere. But we also have to intensify our airstrikes against isis. And eventually support our arab and kurdish partners to be able to actually take out isis in their claim of being a calipha caliphate. Were making progress, our military is assisting in iraq and were hoping that within the year well be able to push isis out of iraq then really squeeze them in syria. But we have to be cognizant of the fact that they have had foreign fighters coming to volunteer for foreign money. Foreign weapons. We have to make this the top priority and i would also do Everything Possible to take out their leadership. I was involved in a number of o efforts to take out al qaeda leadership when i was secretary of state including of course, taking out bin laden. We need to go after baghdaddiag make that one of our organizing principles weve got to defeat Anna Nicole Smith isis and disrupt their propaganda efforts online. You mentioned isis we think of isis as over there. But there are american citizens who have been inspired to commit acts of terror on american soil, latest incident of court bombings we spaw in new york and new jersey, the knife attack at a mall in minnesota. The last year attacks in San Bernadino and orlando. Ad ill ask this to both of you tell us specifically how wouldca you prevent home grown attacks by american citizens . First, i have to say one thing, very important. Secretary clinton is talking about taking out isis. We will take out isis. Well, president obama and secretary clinton, created a vacuum the way they got out of iraq. Because they got out what they shouldnt have been in, once i they got in, the way they got out was a disfaster. And isis was formed. Me she talks about taking them out, shes been doing it a long timem trying to take them out a long time. But they wouldnt have even been formed if they left some troops behind like 10,000 or maybe something more than that. Then then you wouldnt have had them. Or as ive been saying for a long time, i think youll agreee because i said it to you once, had we taken the oil, taken the oil, isis would not have been able to form either because the oil was their primary source of income and now they have the oil all over the place, including the oil a lot of the oil in libya which was another one of her disasters. Secretary clinton . Well, i hope the Fact Checkers are turned turning up the t volume really working hard. Donald supported the invasion of iraq. Wrong. That is absolutely wrong. Proved over and over again. Ro wrong. In he actually advocated for f actions we took in libya. B and urged that gadhafi be taken out after actually doing some business with him one time. But the larger point, he says this constantly, is george w. Bush made the agreement about when american troops would leave iran, not barack obama. And the only way that american troops could have stayed in iraq is to get an agreement from thee then Iraqi Government that would have protected our troops. The Iraqi Government would not give that. Butnt lets talk about the question you asked, lester. The question you asked, what doh we do here in the United States thats the most important partan of this. How do we prevent attacks. How do we protect our people. And i think weve got to have an intelligence surge where we are looking for every scrap of information. I was so proud of law enforc enforcemen in new york, in minnesota, in new jersey. Rs they responded so quickly, so professionally to the attackss that occurred by rahami and they brought him down. And we may find out more information because he is still alive, which may prove to be an intelligent benefit. Weve got to do everything we can to vacuum up intelligence from europe, from the middleid east. That means weve got to work with our allies. Thats something that donald ha been very dismissive of. Were working with nato, the Longest Military Alliance in the history of the world to, really turn our attention to terrorism. Were working with our friends in the middle east, many of which as you know are muslim majority nations, donald has consistently insulted muslims abroad, muslims at home. When we need to be cooperating with muslim nations and with the american muslim community. Theyre on the front line. They can provide information tor us so we night not get anywhere else. They need to have close working cooperation with Law Enforcement in these communities. Not be alienated and pushed away as some of donalds rhetoric unfortunate ly has led to. Mr. Trump. May i respond . . The secretary said very strongly about working with weve been working with them for many years. Ea we have the greatest mess anyony has ever seen. S you look at the middle east,st its a mess. Under your direction to a large extent. But you look at the middle east, you started the iran deal, that is another beauty where you have country that was ready to they were doing so badly they were choking on the sanctions now theyre going to be actually a major power at some point,n pretty soon the way they are going. When you look at nato, i waso, asked on a major show, what do you think of you have to idea im a business person. I have common sense. I said, well, ill tell you, i havent given lots of thought l but two things. Number one, the 28 countries of nato many arent paying their fair share. Fa number two, that bothers me, because we should be werer defending them they at least be paying us what theyre supposed to be paying by treaty and contract. And number two, i said very strongly, nato could be op soley because, i was very strong on,n this actually covered very accurately in the New York Times, which sun usual for thes New York Times to be honest. Is but i said, they do not focuf on terror. I was very strong, i said it numerous times, and about four months ago i red on front page of the wall street journal that nato is opening up a major terror division. I think thats great. I think we should get, because we pay approximately 73 of the of the cost of natoa lot of money, to protect other people. But im all for nato. But i set they have to focus on terror also. Te theyre going to do that. That was the believe me, not going to give credit, but that was largely because of what it was saying, and my criticism of nato. I think we have to get nato to go in to the middle east with us in addition to surrounding nations and we have to knock the hell out of isis and we have to do it fast. When isis formed in this vacuum created by barack obama andma secretary clinton, and believe me, you were the ones that took out the troops, not only that you named they couldnt believe it they sat back probably b said wait a minut. Weve covered this ground dasher. Then they formed, this isun something that never should havv happened. It should have never happened. You are talking about taking out isis. But you were there and you were secretary of state when it was a little infant. Now its an over 30 countries. Youre going to stop them . I dont think so. Mr. Trump lot of these are judgment questions, you have uyo had supported the war in iraq before the invasion. What makes your did i not support the war in iraq. In 2002. That is a Mainstream Media nonsense, put out by her becausb she frankly i think best person in her campaign is Mainstream Media. My question is i was against the war wait a minute. I was against the war in iraq. Just so you put it out. The record shows otherwise. O why sit why it does not. The record shows that im right. When did i interview with howard stern, very lightly, first time anyone asked me that, i said, i very lightly, i dont know, maybe. Who knows. I then did an interview witht neil covuto then spoke to sean hannity everybody refuses to call, i had numerous conversations and he said,sa called me the other day, i spoke to him about it. He said, you were totally against he was for the war. H why is your dasher. That was before the war started. Seann said, nobody wants to call him. I was against the war. He said, he was in favor of the war. We used to nights. Midded that side also. Not very much becauseed we shoud have never been there. But nobody called sexan then they did an article in major magazine shortedly after the war started. I think in 04. But they did an article whichn had me totally against the war in iraq. One of your cam pay tree yachtst said, you know, whether it was before or right after, trump is definitely if you read thisea article theres no doubt. This somebody ill ask the press, if somebody call up sean hannity, this is before the war started we used to arguments about the war. Th i said its a terrible and a stupid thing. Its going to destabilize the middle east thats exactly what its done. My reference was to what you said in 2002 my question was, why is your judgment any different than mrs. Clintons . I have much better judgment than she does. Theres no question. I much have much better temperament than she has. H she spent let me tell you, she spent hundreds of millionsli of dollars on an advertising they get madison avenue into a room, temperament, lets go after. I think my strongest asset,on maybe by far is my temperament. I have a winning temperament. Nn i know how to win. She does not secretary clinton . The aflcio the other day behind the blue screen, i dont know who you were talking to, secretary clinton, but you were totally out of control. I said, theres a person with a temperament thats got a problem. Secretary clinton . Whoo, okay lets talk about two important issues that were briefly mentioned by donald. Io first, nato. Nato as a military alliance has something called article five, f basically it says this. An attack on one is an attack on all. The only time its ever been invoked after 9 11 when the 28 nations of nato said that they would go to afghanistan with us. To fight terrorism. Something that they still are a doing by our side. With respect to iran, when i became secretary of state, irani was weeks away from having enough Nuclear Material to formm a bomb. They had mastered the Nuclear Fuel Cycle under the bush administration, they had built covert facilities, they had stocked them with centrifuge, is that were going away. We had sanctioned them, i rode for every sanction against irana when i was in the senate, it wasnt enough so, i spent a year and a half putting together a coalition that included russiu and china, to impose the toughest sanctions on iran. And we did drive them to the negotiating table. And my successor, john kerry and president obama got a deal that put a lid on Irans Nuclear program. Without firing a single shot. Thats diplomacy, thats coalition building, thatsit working with other nations. The other day i saw donald saying that there were some iranian sailors on a ship in the waters off of iran and they were taunting american sailors whosa were on a nearby ship. S he said, you knowf they taunted our sailors id blow them out oo the water. And start another war. Thats is not the right temperament to be commander in chief. Ch to be taunted. Au the worst part t they were taunting us. Y the worst part has been about Nuclear Weapons. He has said repeatedly, that he didnt care if other nations got Nuclear Weapons, japan, south korea, even saudi arabia, it has been the policy of the United States, democrats and republicans, to do everything we could to reduce the proliferation of Nuclear Weapons. Ol he even said, well, you know, if there were nuclear war in east asia, well, you know, thatst fine. Wrong. Have a good time folks. In fact his cavalier attitude about Nuclear Weapons is so deeply troubling. Ro that is the number one threat we face in the world and it becomes particularly threatening if terrorists ever get their hands on any Nuclear Materials. So, a man who can be provoked by a tweet should not have his fingers anywhere near the t Nuclear Codes as far as i think anyone with any sense about this should be concerned. Getting a little bit old, i must say. Its a good one, though. Well described. Its not accurate one at all. Not accurate one at all. I just want to give lot of things just in response. Gs i agree on one thing. Single greatest problem the world has is nuclear armment, Nuclear Weapons. Not Global Warming like you think in your your president thinks. Nuclear is single greatest threat. Just go down the list, we defend japan, we defend germany, we defend south korea, we defend saudiou arabia, we defend countries. They do not pay us but they should be paying us because we area providing tremendous serv service, thats why were losin. I say, who makes these we lose on everything. I say that its very possible that if they dont pay a fair share, because this is in 40 years ago where we could do what were doing. In we cant defend japan, a behemoth selling us cars we need to move glob wait, its very important. All i said was they may have to defend themselves or they haveha to help us out. Country that owes 20 trillionri they have to help us out. Our last as far as nuclear is concerned. I agree, it is the single greatest threat that thisst country has. Which leads my next question west enter our last segment her. Still on the subject of securing america, are Nuclear Weapons, president obama reportedlyep considered changing the nations long standing policy on first use. Do you support the currentnt policy, mr. Trump you have two minutes. Well, i haveru to say that fr what secretary clinton was w saying about nuclear with russia, very cavalier in the way she talks about various countries. But russia has been expanding,pa they have much newer capability than we do. We have not been updating fromfr the new standpoint, i was seeing b52s there old enough that t your father, your grandfather could be flying themment we are not keeping up with other countriess auto i would likeke everybody to end just get rid oo it. Anna nicole smith but i would certainly not for a strike. I think once the nuclear is alternative happens its over. At the same time, we have to be prepared. I cant take anything off the table. I because you look at some of these countries, law can a the north korea, were doing nothing there. China should solve their problem for us. China should go into north korea. China is totally powerful as it relates to north korea. By the way another one power self the worst deal i think ive ever seen negotiated that youha started as iran deal, iran is one of their biggest trading partners. Iran has power over north korea. When they made that horrible deal with iran, they should have included the fact that they do something with respect to north korea. They should have done somethingn with respect to yemen all these other places. S. When asked to secretary kerry why didnt do you that, why didnt you add other things into the deal, one of the great give aways of all time, of all time, including 400 million in cash nobody has ever seen that before. Turned out to be wrong. R it was actual ly 1. 7 billion in cash obviously i guess for the hostages, certainly looks thatly way. You say to t yourself, why didnt they make the right deal. This is one of the worst deals ever made by any country in history. The deal with iran will lead to nuclear problems. Cl all they have to do sit back ten years they dont have to your two minutes is up. I met with netanyahu, believe me, he is not a happy camper. Secretary clinton you haven two minutes. Let me started by saying words matter. Words matter when you run for president and they really matter when you are president. And i want to reassure our allies in japan and south korea and elsewhere, that we have mutual defense treaties and weie will honor them. It is essential that americas word be good. And so i know that this campaign has caused some questioning and some worries on the part of many leaders across the globe, ivebe talked with a number of them. But i want to on behalf of myself and i think on behalf of majority of the American People, say that our word is good. Its also important that we look at the entire global situation. Theres no doubt that we have other problems with iran, but personally id rather deal with the other problems having put that lid on their Nuclear Program thanle still to be facig that. And donald never tells you what he would do, would he have started a war . Would he have bombed iran . If hes going to criticize a deal that has been very successful in giving us access to iranian facilities that we never had before, then he should tell us what his alternative would be, but its like plan to defeat isis. S. He says its a secret plan, but, only secret is that he has no plan. So, we need to be more precise in how we talk about these issues. People around the world follow our president ial campaign so closely, trying to get a hint about what we will do can they rely on us. Are we going to lead the world with strength and in accordancea with our values thats what i intend to do. In i intend to be a leader of our country that people can count on, both here at home and around the world. To make decisions that will further peace and prosperity. But also stand up to bullies,ul whether theyre abroad or at home. Th we cannot let those who would try to destabilize the world, to interfere with americanam interests and security. Your two minutes given any opportunities at all. Is expired. E one thing id like to say. Very quickly. I will tell you that hillary will tell you to go to her website and read all about how to defeat isis which she couldld have defeated by never having ii get going in the first place. Right now its getting tougher and tougher to defeated them because they are more and more places, more and more states, more and more nations. Mr. Trump its a big problem. As far as japan is concerned, i want to help all of our allies. But we are losing billions and billions of dollars. We cannot be the policemen ofol the world. We cannot protect countries all over the world or we have just a theyre not paying us what weha need. We have few final questions. Shes got no business ability. We need heart, lot of things, but you have to have some basic ability. Sadly she doesnt have that. E all of the things that shes talking about could have been taken care of during the last ten years, lets say, while she had great power. But they werent taken care of. O if she ever wins this race, they wont be mr. Trump, secretary clinton became first woman nominated. Earlier you said she doesnt have, quote, a president ial look. Shes standing here right now, n what do you mean by that . She doesnt have the look. She doesnt have the stamina. She doesnt have the stamina. I dont believe she does have the stamina. E to be president of this countryo you need tremendous stamina. The quote was she doesnt hatch the president ial look. Did you ask me a question . You have to m be able to negotie on trade deals, you have to beto able to negotiate thats right. With japan, with saudi arabia, can you imagine were defending saudi arabia and with all of the money they have, were defendine them theyre not paying. T all you have to do so s speak to them. You have so many Different Things you have to be able toff do. And i dont believe that hillary has the stamina. Lets let her respond . Well, as soon as he travels to 112 countries and negotiateso a peace deal, a cease fire, a release of dissidents and opening of new opportunities and nations around the world, or even spends 11 hours testifying in front of a Congressional Committee he can talk to me about stamina. [ cheering and applause ]. Let me tell you. Let me tell you. Hillary has experience built its bad experience. We have made so many bad deals during the last shes got experience that i but its bad experience. Whether its the iran deal that youre so in love with where we gave them 150 billion back. Whether its the iran deal, whether its anything you almost cant name a good deal. De i agree. Shes got experience. Ie but its bad experience. And this country cant afford tr have another four years of thatt kind of experience. We are at the [ cheering and applause ] are at the final one thing very quickly. He tried to switch from some looks to stamina. But this is a man who has called women pigs, slobs and dogs. And someone who has said proceeding nancy is an inconvenience to employers proceeding nancy an that women dont deserve equal pay enless they do as good a job as men. And one of the worst things he said was about a woman in a beauty contest, he loves beauty contests, supporting them and hanging around them. And he called this woman misss piggy. Then he called her miss housekeeping because she was latina. Donald she had a name. Where did you find this . Her name is when she has become s a u. S. Citizen and youy can bet shes going to vote thit november. Okay, good. Let me just tell you. Mr. Trump, fen seconds then final question. Hillary isn hitting me with tremendous commercials. Some of it in entertainment, somebody who has been very vicious to me, rosie odonnell,o i said very tough things to her everybody would agree that shet deserves it and nobody feels sorry for her. Rr but you want to know the truth . I was going to Say Something please very quickly. Something extremely rough. To hillary to, her family and i said to myself, i cant do it. I just cant do it. I its inappropriate. Its not nice. But she spent hundreds of millions of dollars on negative ads on me, many of which are absolutely untrue. They are untrue, theyre misrepresentations, and i willio tell you this, lester. Its not nice and i dont deserve that. But its certainly not a nice thing that shes done. E. Its hundreds of millions of ads only gratifying thing is i saw the polls come in today. And with all of that money we that have to move on to o the final the dollars spent im either winning or tied. One of you will not win this election. So my final question to you tonight, are you willing to accept the outcome as the will of the voters . He secretary clinton 1234. I support our democracy. Sometimes you win, some times t you lose. But i certainly will support the outcome of this election. And i know donald trying veryal hard to plant doubts about it. I but i hope the people out there understand this election is really up to you. Its not about us. A so much as it is about you and your families and the kind of country and future you want. So i sure hope you will get out and vote as though your future depended on it, because i think it does. Mr. Trump very quickly, same question, will you accept thet outcome . I want to make America Greata again. We are a nation that is seriously troubled. Were losing our jobs, people are pouring in to our country, the other day we were deporting 800 people. And perhaps they passed thee wrong button or pressed the wrong button worse than that corruption. These people that we are going to deport for good reason ended up becoming citizens. Ended up becoming citizens. It was 800 now it turns out it might be 1800. They dont even know. E will you accept the outcome of the election. Want to make America Great again. Im going to be able to do it. I dont believe hillary will. The answer is, if she wins, i will absolutely support her. T that is going to do it for us. That concludes our debate for this evening, a spirited one, we covered a lot of ground. Not everything as i suspected we would. Next president ial debate scheduled for october 9th in Washington University in st. Louis. And october 19th at university of nevada, las vegas, the conversation will continue. Reminder the Vice President ial debate scheduled for october 4th at Longwood University in farmville, virginia. Our thanks to Hillary Clinton and donald trump. And to Hofstra University for hosting us tonight. Good night everyone. [ applause ] that concludes the first debate between Hillary Clinton and donald trump. De we watched them there on the stage joining gwen eiffel and me for some analysis. Mark shields, New York Times columnist david brooks and amy walter of the cook political report. Mark shields they did cover a lot of ground jobs to taxes, from isis and just now women. What did you make of it all . I think first of all, donald trump made it about him. Rather than about the American People. I think that was missing in his message. I really think that he is remarkable political figure inli that if you think about americae president whether its Ronald Reagan or john kennedy or barack obama, or franklin roosevelt, always optimism to them. It is very dark and dreary message. Were surrounded by people who are note simply incompetent but who are cutting deals, who have conflicts of interest, if Hillary Clinton, i thought was Hillary Clinton, she was well organized in her thinking, not particularly to come across about herself that anecdote about her dad again and the grandchild in the opening. I thought trump failed his test. Ifill you watch the families come on stage sass typical of these debates, former president bill clinton and Hillary Clintonid of course. Chelsea clinton. The other head melan i cant and donald trump and his daughters. We counseled it up. Hillary clinton referred toon donald trump by his first name donald. Most people call him mr. Trump. She clearly had it in her h mind she wanted to plug him, did it work . Hes on the defensive much m more on offense than in this debate whether it was on question of birther, his taxes, his support for the iraq war, debate about women. And his things he said about women, about stamina. This was debate which she was able, i think that mark completely right. Trump made it about himself but she helped him to make it about himself. Hi she did not provide the vision i think that there are a lot of folks even on democratic side looking for that concept, whatce is the bigger message of Hillary Clinton. Shes very smart. She has all of the facts outlined. She has all the policy papers up on her website. But the bigger sort of cohesive vision of where we take america, i dont know that we still saw that in this debate. Th woodruff either one do who they needed to do tonight . Well, if what they needed to do make me feel better about the country, it failed. It was opposite of elevating. I felt for first half hour thatt donald was winning, he may be obnoxious but he is a changes agent. The first half hour was on his turf. And her answers was on policies cant just be three things ha has to be 16 things. Then she started attacking him s she had two devastatingly goodst answer on birther issue and tax return issue. Tu which were really good assaults onod him. Shes not good as policy shesic good at going after him. Then debate got on, donald trump became donald trump with everyp answer was digging deeper. His birther answer was abysmal. Bunch of bad answer all in a row, race issue was terrible. Looks issue, bad. So he just his lack of preparation, lot of his policiee and character got worse and worse and worse. You have to say this was clinton win. Ifill john yang is at Hofstra University at the site of thehe debate. Im wondering what the scene ise like there, john, how its going over . I tell you the people are just coming out im in front of the Donald Trump Holding room youna can see them coming by he. The the senator came by shes obviously supporter of secretary clinton. She was telling me that she felt, this is sort of the line coming out of their clinton room tonight that donald trump onceal again, they say, showed that he wasnt prepared to be president. They say that this was they say came right from the top, secretary was able to give what they theyre saying wass coherent policy about providingr jobs in america. But he wasnt. Governor christie went by, wouldnt stop. Wo im trying to see if i can get g someone from the Trump Campaign to get their reaction, so far thats whaten so far. Ifill well let you keep searching for people in the room to talk. Well get back to you. Woodruff mark, i want to come to you, was there any david was saying that donald trump did better in the first half hour when they talked about jobs, he talked about jobs leaving the countryd Hillary Clinton ever have an answer . She was defensive, no question about it. She was defensive. But her answer, there were more manufacturing jobs, in defense of her husbands economic work. There was a defense to be made for bill clintons eight years of 22 million jobs and lowest unemployment rates for African Americans in the country, balancing the budget. She said more manufacturing jobs than the 90s. I want to say in defense of trump, not to be totally i have never heard president stall candidate, ive heard plenty say im under leveraged. That was another remarkable statement. Not paying taxes, he said, it would be vaughn doored, thats why he didnt pay any taxes. I thought those were explanation, one that would be most memorable was that, who hacked the dnc it wasnt russia, could have been china, could have been some other country or could have been someone sitting in the bed that weighs 400 pounds. Ifill that is your definition of Fact Checking. Im under leveraged myself. Talk about the line of questioning on race, i never heard president ial candidate in the debate call person that he or she is running against, use the word racist, three times. Also when he was asked about race, donald trump talked about law and order. Maybe they werent even dog whistles everybody could hear them. Donald trumps answer whenever theres an issue whether its on race, whether its on policing, whether its on terrorism, he ails comes back to its all about law and order you get the police, were going to get stuff done because thats how things work. We also know that that is an answer that is not a comfortable answer for many people in African American community. And among nonwhite voters, about who gets profiled when we have stop and frisk programs. Have law and order, what that actually means. These were questions that were not the kind of questions that donald trump answers particularly well. But thats not who hes playing to. We talked about this a lot during the convention, throughout this throughout the convention, throughout this debate, donald trump talked to the same people hes been talking to, this entire campaign. They are group of voters out there who are white, who are working class, who hes done very, very well with. Those are voters he expects to take him all the way throughout this election. Hes not interested in reaching out and getting beyond that base. David, picking up what amy says, much of this debate was on territory. Where donald trump is uncomfortable the whole birther question, lester holt raised that he pushed donald trump on that, he pushed him on his tax returns which weve been talking about. These were areas where donald trump was back against the ropes. Maybe theres more to work with there. He certainly exposed vulnerabilities, the country club in palm beach which allows in minorities thats not good defense. Apparently already tweeted they werent good questions about emails and clinton foundation. And here is way think its going to happen. He looked bad on some of the racial stuff. On the gender stuff, a lot of stuff. So i think we can expect his posts to drop after the convention, as amy said, its not his audience, two, he is thematic ly so consistent. We are under assault, were under assault, were under assault. It would not surprise me if he then his numbers begin to go up as they have in the last couple weeks with all the stuff. Hes said all this before. Ifill i might add weve been keeping track of the things that were true and false that were sewed tonight on our website, pbs. Org newshour find what all of our experts including our own Margaret Warner are answering these questions. Facts seem to be an important issue here tonight. That was also Hillary Clintons turf. Thats where she s. She cant give a short answer. That is real problem, there is a little bit of let me tell you how much i know. I not know the capital of sweden but the principle products of sweden and how long i think that again, there are moments in the debate which i think we cant ignore, that is, dont learn a lot from the tax return. That i can tell you. Explaining why he hasnt submitted them. Pay no federal taxes makes me smart. Im sorry, the cops and marine corps and school teachers, who pay taxes every year, i dont know if not paying taxes, the two years that he has on record is a recommendation. I would agree with you if republican debates hadnt happened. Maybe the audience was difference. The rules are a little different, lot of things where he says im smart, i got away with this. I do think this has resonance with social distrust. I do think some of the rules are a little different applying to him. Do you think those respectable people will come to him in the last few weeks, overlook it . Thats the question. Did he pass the judgment test . Did the point of which i dont know that he was able to pass judgment temperament test. I dont think that that was gets high marks on. That but on the question about where the country feels that were going, pretty evenly divided between whether this is wall street journal pole our country losing ground or is our country making progress . 48 say losing ground. So when you see these candidates literally talking past each other as you pointed out on race issues, on so many other issues. Literally country that seeing the direction that were going in completely it. I think all three of you were saying before the debate that Hillary Clinton tonight needed to be more likable. She needed to mark what was your term, she needed to not a bad egg. Woodruff did she did she do that . Did that happen . No. I dont think i dont think she wasnt unlikable but she certainly what . Any point peek into her who she is, what makes her tick. I never heard ask if donald trump is likable. Sure we do. Hes thoroughly unlikable. Not really an open question. I see. The wall street journal nbc poll comes back to what amy was talking about, favorable, unfavorable now at 29. Were going quickly back to Hofstra University in new york, john i cant think is there maybe found a trump person . Return to some of the Trump Supporters here now. They think, one point that they have been repeating over and over again is the point that actually that he repeated over and over again when debate was hitting at clinton as career politician, that reinforcing this idea that career politicians like Hillary Clinton are the reason for the problems were seeing now. Thats been a significant is mature line of his campaign. In many ways one reason for lot of the support of the campaign. Thats what were hearing over and over again from the Trump Supporters here tonight g. M. That was one of the big lines which is that she has experience. But its bad experience. Right . So, they are picking up on that. Woodruff going to bring it back here and say to david, is that effective . Is that something that he keeps repeating . I think it does, actually. If you look at her come out of the debate she looks like career politics, she doesnt quite make Human Connection and in year thats very unusual, shes not that you can usual. But i thought she did fine. With some devastatingly good assault, but again as mark said he was the subject. And he did negative. Woodruff thats been the threepoint, where wherever the spotlight goes, if its placed on you, the candidate. You were likely to drop in the polls. When the spot plight gets to the other this race just been referendum on who the worst candidate s. If it goes to the spot plight donald trump and how much he was on defense, its not going to be how well clinton did. If it goes over to Hillary Clinton then she becomes the focus, her numbers suffered. At the end of the day, the candidate who wins is the candidate who doesnt get in that spotlight for the last couple of weeks. Ifill let me ask a question about this one big policy issue that he seemed to land few blows on on trade. Basically made the point that she changed her mind. He drove that point home. The question i had as he was doing that, his interruptions a sign of strengths or obnoxiousness. Theres no question, he dominated that she was very much playing defense in the first part there. Woodruff david said first half hour seemed to be that he was getting the better of a couple of points. But then as we moved into the debate, seemed that Hillary Clinton felt more comfortable coming after him. And sticking with she baited him no. Question. The donald was baited. Did he not in that sense go after her the way i thought he would. I thought his own defense of his positions was really faulty. Time to ask quick answers. Expectations in advance meet your expectations afterwards . Yes. They did. Ifill mark . No. I had expectations better than that. We may ask you this question again tomorrow, david . Not a come cozy night for him. Not a career night for him. All right. That gave you like one word i can say, yes. Agree that it was better night for Hillary Clinton but not feel like it was the defining end all, be all of the this campai campaign. Woodruff only have six weeks to g. Ifill well have to come back do it again right here at this table. Maybe october 4th for Vice President ial debate. That concludes our coverage of the first president ial debate but theres whole lot more online. You can watch highlights plus see how Margaret Warner as you were saying more put who the candidates said in context. Thats all at pbs. Org newshour. Im judy woodruff. Join us right here for the newshour tomorrow night. For all of us at the pbs newshour. Thank you. Good night. Captioning sponsored by newshour productions, llc captioned by Media Access Group at wgbh Media Access Group at wgbh access. Wgbh. Org in election years, politicians become collectors. Of votes. Heres our collection of appraisals celebrating american politics. Young man we took it in for showandtell. Heres my mom and the teacher in a big argument of how its real or not. Your teacher didnt believe this was real . No, she didnt believe it. Appraiser i did a lot of polling from a number of people here, and we all just were shaking about this piece. No appraiser yes stay tuned for these moments and more in our special edition, antiques roadshow politically collect. Now, the people who make antiques roadshowpossible. Ancestrydna, a Family History dna test that can help you travel up to a thousand years into the past and uncover your ethnic origins
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