Jumping into this conversation, its a little bit of a different kind of conversation that we usually have, but lgbtq life in the Faith Community and Jewish Community, lets just say to start out by talking about what your experience has been in the Jewish Community yourself. Maxine . Well i am going to date myself but i am twice blessed, being a lesbian and being jewish, it was very difficult because i didnt come out until graduate school. Because i didnt think being [null] had anything to being jewish. So i had no role models. I had no one to model myself after, and i didnt think i could be jewish and be [null] , until i met somebody in graduate school at the same seminary that i attended as a communal professional spending nonprofit studying nonprofit management and my first woman lover was there at Hebrew Union College and i thought oh my god, the heavens opened. You mean talk about intersectionality, here were two permanent parts of myself that became integrated. And rabbi zalman . You know, its a very similar and different story for me, being transgender, the Trends Community is one might one might say in Broad Strokes running similar experiences perhaps 30 or 40 years after gay and lesbian people so the kind of stories you were talking about the kinds of stories trans people now are experiencing right in this moment, so i get calls all the time simply because i am a transgender rabbi, i get calls and emails and postcards, people still send those apparently. People that her having the very experience you described that her growing up in a synagogue, thinking they are the only entrance jewish person in the world, they think they are the only jewish person whos ever experienced this and they are reaching out to talk to somebody, or perhaps they are really struggling because they perhaps believe what many people have believed which is that jewish faith has no place for people who are transgender but think god is not true. Between the two of you if we can say theres a generational difference, all kinds of liberation scar struggles change language by experience and by ways in which we all integrated into the wider community. So one of the words is in lgbtq is [null] and for a certain generation of folks that was a word that was degrading and has over the years been reclaimed by the Lgbtq Community as a word that is affirming and im wondering with the between the two of you if you can comment on that transition because in some ways you embody that language. Well i have always reclaimed the dike in being lesbian. I have always been much more comfortable with that word because it meant everything i thought i was, which was funny and smart and powerful and empowered simply to be who i was, so i am comfortable and would love it if it were dgbtq as opposed to l but thats just me. I was admitted to Rabbinical School about 14 years ago and stepped right on the issue that you just brought up because they were all these reporters and things which was calling me which was very depressing for number of reasons and i identified as [null] because i was 24 and everybody was starting to use [null] even though wed all grown up with it as a school yard insult , a horrible word that was hurled at us but it was right at that time when we begin to try to say we actually need a different word. I think the feeling among my generation is we need a different word because gay means a certain thing, lesbian means a certain thing and bisexual but none of them is the same as what [null] now means which is a much more expansive identity which is not just about personal affectional nature necessarily but also about a certain political alliance, about a certain orientation on fluidity and potential and so [null] means to me a very different thing , and it doesnt mean what they used to call me on the school bus. Thank you so much rabbi zalman and mixing. We will take a quick break and return to this wonderful conversation in honor of june as lgbtq pride month. Please join us back in a moment on mosaic. Good morning and welcome back to mosaic, i am honored to be your host. We are in the middle of a wonderful conversation in honor of june as lgbtq pride month so we want to welcome back Maxine Epstein who is the director of institutional advancement at the high school of the bay and rabbi ruben zelman who is the director of music at bethel and berkeley. Welcome back. We were talking about shifts in language and your relative experiences in Jewish Community around lgbtq issues and landscape. I am wondering if you can talk a little bit about the institutional changes that youve seen over the years and even in the places in which you work that cover maybe some of the social shifts, some of the theological liturgical ships, some of the shifts people dont necessarily think of because they or not overtly political or something the news reports on. Rabbi zalman what do you reflect on in that way . Ive worked now in synagogues for about 15 years, and its been an ongoing evolution to figure out how to we not just say sure, lgbtq people are welcome to walk in here. But also, when did you walk in does whats when we do walk in does whats going on in there reflector lives and speak to us and include the things that her most important to us . That i think is where some parts of the Jewish Community have done wonderful work and others havent started that yet. So for example, if we are one of the things thats been very important for lgbtq communities has been gender equality and talking about god and prayer in talking about god and prayer so are hebrew first traditionally talk about god prayers traditionally talk about god as a man. What is gender anyway . Why is that and so perhaps reframing those questions and putting in a genderless prayer book for example. Or were calling somebody to the torah and their hebrew name is either sent or so some of son of someone or daughter of someone, what if somebody says i dont identify as male or female . We need to come up with news way new ways of making hebrew name names so those were the kinds of things weve been doing, really challenging and wonderful work. In jewish tradition when somebody is called to the torah to have the honor of having a bible portion of the week read in their honor, that in that liturgical sequence that somebody is named by their hebrew name and the formula is so and so the sun driver of and then naming one parent or the parents so its interesting that on that simple liturgical experience that we have this very deep conversation that talks about how we in fact relate to god. Is just one example but i think about 10 or 15 years ago none of us had thought of it as a problem, and now we realize it has limitations we need to address. And maxine from your experience people things people needed to highlight . Working at a High School High school teenagers its the age of isms so from 9th to 12th grade here are teenagers grappling with their identities. Its why i love working at this high school and why i have a daughter at this high school. Its not only a rigorous i kept it academic place to study, but it also educates the whole person. It helps every single student to become the best of who they are, and who they will become and it is small because the faculty can give this to every student, so we have a number of students whove come out recently in a very loving and supportive environment. That never wouldve happened when i was in high school. It has transgender students and the logo from the bathroom even to that point and we think wow, we never thought of that. Its all gender local. Its a pluralistic logo. Its a pluralistic place to be. I wish i was here not just from religious observance but just from being we were naturally and accepting that, and more than just tolerant of it, understanding it. Part of the subtext of what youre saying especially in a faithbased framework is that within a jewish contest what were really moving toward is not saying that we welcome you in. Its really saying god approves of you. You reflect god as you are just as much as any other person and the fact that we dont necessarily have the language attached to it doesnt mean youre any less legitimate and in fact maybe something is similar simple as gender with restrooms represents that as that becomes known to us. Its something thats always existed but we are discovering it in that context. Spoke and its making us all walk the walk whether youre a teenager who doesnt believe in god whatsoever. Theres still a place for you at this high school and yes god loves all of us. We are going to say goodbye to you and welcome another guest rabbi so thank you for staying with us. Maxine will stay for the duration of the show. Please stay with us for just another moment. Welcome back to mosaic, i am rabbi eric weiss and were in the middle of the wonderful conversation. In the context of june as lgbtq pride month and lgbtq pride in the Jewish Community. We would like to introduce you to Jean Goldstein placer who is the Community Program for the bay area. Welcome, jean. Gene. Its an organization based in boston but does National Work around the country. We were founded 20 years ago in a very different environment and at the time it was very hard for people who were lgbtq to feel like they could live fully integrated jewish lives and that when they entered jewish spaces they had to leave their queue choir lgbtq identity at the door. So we were found in the mission of trying to attain change that and change the world to the one that become people could be [null] and jewish at the same time so the last 20 years weve been working tweet jewish institutions more accepting to make jewish institutions more accepting. It means rainbow in hebrew and its a reference to the rainbow after the flood which in a jewish perspective is considered to be the first line of covenant. In addition to meaning rainbow it also means boaz in bow and arrow so theres also some idea of action bow, as in bow and arrow so theres an idea of action as well. I am a Second Generation day. My parents or lesbians. I grew up in North Carolina and grew up going to a synagogue that was part of the conservative movement. We for the most part had very few issues. We were fully accepted by are congregation. There were always a few awkward conversations and a few people who were surprised or didnt know how to react but i never felt discrimination or felt unwelcome. But sort of speaking to what rabbi ruben was seen previously, there still are corners where people or less talk tolerant and accepting and able to comprehend. There was an orthodox minion an orthodox prayer gathering that met on the lower level of are synagogue every week and because it was a much smaller community, they would seek out people to join them to create the 10 people you need to have a prayer service. Sometimes they would come recruiting upstairs and one time i joined them. I was brought down there, and they would call me up as the son of two women. They insisted of on calling me up as a son of abraham which is what you do generically when you dont know who somebodys parents are or they are adopted and i remember at that moment feeling wow. This is not something they are i am comfortable pit comfortable with. They arent accepting me as i really am and i felt a distance to judaism like i never had before and i never went back to judaism. Based on this experience where other places that we still need to be better to explore and get better. As a mother of twin daughters who went to a jewish day school, we were the first two mommy family to go to this school in marion, and i will never forget when the kids were in first grade we got a call from a parent who said what do you mean you re two mommy family . And i said yes hi, we are. And he set they said yes we know your son, hes in my daughters class and my son wants to know how comes hes not having to mothers as well. You made it very difficult for me. [ laughter ] and i said well i guess you are unlucky. And that was the conversation. Which it is so nice to hear that what a trailblazing your parents were. So you know theres a lot of work still to do. As much as we accept and try, theres always the nice people who dont Say Something in front of us but they always will behind closed doors. We talk about the intersectionality which is a word that typically comes out of the social justice arena around race, but has been used more globally for other kind of identities. In talking about trial lgbtq its also to compounded by juice of color in are community as well so im wondering in that context, or there ways in which you feel like its not exactly a parallel some places theres more jewish advancement and sometimes theres more lgbtq advancement. They arent always in sync with one another and how do you sort of work with that issue within the context of are Jewish Community either personally or professionally . I will say a big part of the work were doing now in the bay area is letting the Community Know that we exist, that we her here and there were people who share both of these identities, or both jewish and lgbtq and as rabbi ruben said in the last segment some people feel they must be the only one but as we found running Community Programs people can come together and compare their experiences and share identities but there are dozens of people who share these combined backgrounds. They are coming together and seeing they are not alone and there are people who are out there sharing these experiences and you can connect over them. We will take a quick break and come back to continue this conversation here on mosaic. Good morning and welcome back to mosaic. We are about to finish a wonderful conversation in honor of lgbtq month in june here in the bay area and really nationwide so we would like to reintroduce you to Maxine Epstein the director of advancement in the Jewish Community and gene who works with keshet in the bay area. We have a little bit of time left and we were having a conversation about places that still have a little bit of dark this, that need more light shed on them and in the Jewish Community this issue needs to have a little bit more progress and advancement so maxine, what are your reflections on this issue . I think speaking as a woman gay or not gay, jewish or not jewish, i think within are community i am still making . 79 on the dollar and we have such a very straight heterosexual male run organizations across the board. There are always disadvantages of being female as a professional, working in are Jewish Community in nonprofit management and if the system. Its a corporate model where even sore social workers or being replaced with lawyers or business execs because we think or whoever thinks, we think running a nonprofit is the way to go and i dont necessarily agree. It reminds me also that now we have orlando and thats now become a word with tremendous potency attached to it, not just a city on a map. It means a lot on a lot of Different Levels and we are going to end up minding that and parsing that for many years to come. In that context it was not just the largest domestic pair domestic terror shooting in are country. It was predominantly to the Lgbtq Community and to the Latin Community because this particular lgbtq club was having its latin night and the community has responded in with tremendous attention and love on many Different Levels. I wonder how you think of the simple relational level that it seems here in the bay area people can feel alone and alienated even in a place so im wondering in a couple sentences what is your reflection on what is that lack of relationship . What is that alienation and that aloneness . There were moments of white and moment of moments of light and moments of hope and again jchs the place where i worked, i love a lot about it but what i love is one of the most one of the youngest victims keira murray who was only 18 graduated from a small high school, a faithbased tour parochial high school. I think it was west Catholic High School in philadelphia. Hour school sent letters of condolence as faithbased to faithbased. And we have just a couple seconds left but do you have a sentence or two to say . I will say are work with teenagers across the country, we think it is some of the most urgent work across the country because there are still such high rates of bullying and lack of acceptance among teenagers direct that 12 lgbtq teens across the country so the things were doing to bring clear teenagers together is important and its a really important piece of the work of ours. Thank you so much maxine and gene for being here with us on mosaic. Have a wonderful day and happy lgbtq pride month. ,, not anymore. Trolls are known now to post anonymous cruel comments and nasty memes. Welcome to bay sunday everyone. I am your host kenny choi. Trolls used to be cute dolls but now they are known as nasty comments or memes. Anybody can become a troll. Were here to learn more about this from justin chang and michael bernstein. Welcome to bay sunday. Lets define what a troll is. Right. So i think theres really a public conception that a troll is part of this small group of an antisocial minority that is not really that many people but