Its doing great. Center for theology and natural sciences, 30 years anniversary this year. In the beginning i was raised in the church, ph. D in physics and found that the two werent talking. I thought this was my calling. We began the center to have a worldwide impact through major grants from john temple ton foundation. So 30 years ago you sit down and get a bunch of religious types around the table. Some are theologians and some are scientists. How does this again . The questions are pretty straightforward. In an age when science and religion or seen as separate or in conflict, was an alternative . The new way is the dialogue through Mutual Respect and the sense that there is value added to each side, scientists can benefit as well as theologians and pastors like yourself. How can god act if a world governed by law and nature . What is it about . How did we come here . What makes us unique in gods image . Whats our role in the world with the environment . How much are we shaped by inheritance genetically and through evolution how much is left for human freedom and moral responsibility . How do we understand the future . What is the purpose of this whole thing . In the theological perspective we have a tradition with the resurrection of christ but how do we understand with science, cosmology, open universe, a lot of challenging questions. Yeah. So 30 years you have been at that. You remember at the start, how did the people begin to talk with one another at the table . It was awkward. It was very hard. You use the word cause in physics and theology but it means a different thing. If you say god caused this event, do you mean like a force . Of course not. In physics you have forces. So its really mistermed to use the same word on both sides. It took a long time to build a common language where you could talk about theology, talk about science and bring them together. That was a struggle. But once you get people with good will together and they begin on the interdisciplinary questions, exciting results arise. Who was in the initial conversation . Ian barber really from Carlton College is the genius, the pioneer who began this field in the 50s and 60s. I had gone and talked there, worked with him, was ordained to work in the chapel. I used his work as a bridge. He was able to make the connections. He was able to say here is what theological language means in a wider context and here is how it connects with science. His work has been a bridge Building Work for the center. In fact now we have a chair named after him to thank him and to honor his work. There are a number of others, students and lots of great people and events. It takes a lot of work. I believe that. We are talking with dr. Bob russell, founding director of the center for theology and National Sciences in berkeley. When he comes back well talk more about science and religion and questions that may interest you. One of the great resources in San Francisco bay area is the center for theology and natural sciences. Lots of places in the country people think of religion and science as knocking heads. Not so by dr. Bob russell of ctns leading in the discussions in the interaction between science and religion and how they can be compatible and how they can think together 30 years. You have a celebration coming up. We do. On the 14th we will have a book launch for my new book time and eternity. A modest title. Well get back to that. It took a long time to write too. The 30 years, kicking off the celebrations. There is a picture of the Golden Gate Bridge on the cover signifying the metaphor of bridging two worlds. Keeping them separate but finding whats common. Super. Your website is ctns. Org. Thats it. Celebration is this coming friday. Right. The 14th, 2 30 to 4 30, come on by. We are an affiliate of the graduate Theological Union. I created it because of its intellectual spiritual environment. Graduate Theological Union is a bunch of seminaries put together. Thats right. A great resource. And programs in jewish studies and muslim and buddhist studies. It is a great environment for conversations that are huge. Have you been able to involve and invite muslims and buddhists and Jewish Community into the dialogue . Absolutely. We will do more of it. Towards the future, the role of science is becoming more and more important. We have already done quite a bit of it. Talk about that. If you get someone who is jewish and someone who is muslim and buddhist, someone who is like yourself and you sit down together. Lets throw a jesuit in there. What the heck . Whats happening . Whats the state of that dialogue . Well, to what extent our jews, christians, muslims are concerned or excited about the idea that the big bang universe began 13. 7 billion years ago with a moment which you cant go behind, is that thee logically significant . Is it spiritually significant . Does it increase your wonder and awe of a god who would make the universe out of nothing . Or is that just not really important to you . I think people differ on that but its a good conversation because all three faiths believe in the same god. Its interesting to see differences in a protestant and Roman Catholic and jewish orthodox, liberal jewish perspectives on questions like beginning of time, what do you think of that . Is it the shear existence of the universe, the fact that there is anything, is that the basis for a profound spirituality, profound sense of the mystery of nature and its need be and therefore there must be a source of it whose meaning is necessary. Thats what christians, jews, muslims have always thought philosophically about god. God is necessary cause. I will be interested to see how they get involved in this if its all illusion anyway but i would think involving Southern Baptists and evangelical christians would be a challenge. It would be. The dividing line isnt the religion. Its whether or not you are a fundamentalist in your religion or about science. Its really how you read scripture. Its normative for us but is it literal . If you take it literally, you have problems. If you take it in the Historic Context then you see the original meaning. You can see that the genesis one story is rediscovery in the faith of god. Of course we can talk about the universe in six days and seven days. One of the first things, if someone is watching and wants to be involved with these dialogues is to realize that if i understand what you are saying, you go back to your sacred text and you begin to read them in a different way. You are lifting up genesis as compatible, even a theological description thats not out of line with science. Exactly. Augustin said that the bible doesnt teach how the heavens go. It teaches you how to go to heaven. The critique of the structure of the genesis account is structured by babylonian cosmology. Those of us who arent up on babylonian cosmology, give us a pencil sketch. The days of creation, same kinds created in the same ways by gods divine word, you take that view out of the context and put it into big bang cosmology and evolution and say evolution is how god creates life and complexity. Big bang could point to the beginning of all things and therefore a god who in the beginning created heaven and earth. In fact, you are retrieving and celebrating the faith we have had for 2 or 3000 years but using contemporary culture to express it. Thats always the call for christians. Christians have reformulated their faith since peter and paul discussed. We are talking about how we think about science and religion coming together and having dialogue. Fascinating stuff. Lets go back to your book for a moment. You said it took a long time. How long did it take . That one was 12 years, but i have had a day job. The title . Time in eternity. Publisher . Notre dame press. What do you say in the preface of the book or introduction . Read it. Walk us into the book. Its basically the question of when we have our own experience of time. You remember the past, think about the future, have regrets or hopes about the past and future. How does that relate to gods eternity . Is it a separate domain and is god timeless or not . According to many contemporary theologians, our experience of being temporal, memory of the past, participation in the future, we are involved with gods thanks to gods gift. Eternity is god taking our life, redeeming it and giving eternal meaning so it is time in eternity. So the future is now . Well the future is the future but for god all moments are now. There we go. Bob russell, we will be right back. St. Augustin, love and do as you please. Well be right back. Welcome back on this september morning. We are talking with dr. Bob russell. Basically, we are trying to say in the world that bob is bringing us into thiazines and religion sometimes run parallel and there is a lot of room to be involved in the dialogue with them each. In my experience most recently and americans southwest with evangelicals science doesnt have anything to say with religion and scientists in berkeley dont want to talk to presbyterian clergy. Its sort of parallel tracks. Again, whats the dialogue . How do you get people talking together . All of that approach. What are you hopeful about . Thats a great question, hugh. We got a grant, if you can imagine, from National Institutes of health about human genome project to look at the theological implications refer human genome project is what. Its now over to math and sequence human genome in an attempt to find cures for diseases that are gene based. How many genes do we have . 300,000. Okay. In any case, this project was to look at the theological implications of the genome project. Its an example of saying it isnt just ethical questions but when people say god created me, this is my body, and yet my own cells and genes are producing a disease that could kill me. Where is god in all that . Does god love and work with me and through those diseases . How do i understand that intimacy of the divine imprint in my life, divine caring for me . Those are important theological spiritual questions which go beyond ethical questions of do you inform the family and employer. Those are important but different issues. Then the feedback to scientists i am using a model of a bridge with traffic going both ways between theology and science. Maybe there are interesting questions that biologists and physicists could ask if theology makes sense about god being eternal and present to us and time being really important to the divine life. In this book of mine time in eternity i actually have suggestions for the kinds of questions in Physics Research that could come out of the more complex view of time that christians like you and i share, that there is coming from the new creation into the world now through the resurrection of christ that time is more complicated than simply linear. A lot does suggest that time branches, processes can go back to time. There are lots of interesting hints that in fact there are things that would be of interest to the scientists from theological conversations if they want to. Its no mandate but it might be of interest especially for scientists like myself who have a foot on both sides and who are thinking about the questions. Cosmetology is a word you use for understanding whats going on in the universe. From the christian standpoint, all these ideas in physics and discoveries of time change our nature of god . Change our understanding of the nature of god . Well they can change it. They might enhance it. All of our understanding is straw. Its all written human language experience. Its all viable up for grabs in a certain sense although our phase convictions arent up for grabs. The way we talk about them might be. They sort of are. Sort of. But there is a balance between what we think is central and how we explore the way we talk about it. Theology is the second order study of the language you use in church and face. Thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. What does that mean . If you think science portrays the world as a closed order its hard to see how god can act without breaking the order. But god created it so why would god want to do that . You and i really are free agents, morally responsible agents and god may act in some ways through openness of nature without having to break the natural laws. I call this noninterventionist divine action. This is really new stuff. Its the point that this dialogue which you have been one of the leaders in, as you look at the center now, a couple more questions excite you and excite your colleagues and people who participate. Sure. There are some rubber meets the road questions around stem cell issues, around human nature being predetermined by genetics. How do you handle that . Should you alter human genes . Should you in some ways recognize limitations on freedom and Human Experience that come because we are embodied . The discussion of if you have a gene and you can look at it and there is an unborn child and know that that is predisposed to some sort of disease. Right. So part of the discussion is do you have ethically can you go in and change something in that . I think the broader question is how does science inform the ethical landscape and theological landscape under it . We cant think about human nature and Human Experience without bringing into the account the discoveries of the human genome project and all the work in genetics and all the work being done in the biological fields. At the same time christians, jews, muslims, buddhists have their ethical systems and use those to determine what you can do and not do ethically as a responsible person. Our center doesnt take a position ethically on the issues. It tries to bring the conversation into dialogue with the sciences in ways that otherwise wouldnt have been done. When i went to seminary 30 or 40 years ago these conversations werent happening. Science wasnt a part of the picture. When you read you couldnt find science in systematic theology. Now you do. So you have Doctoral Students coming up. What are some of the passionate questions or questions that bring out the passion for them . Not the ones you started with but the ones that they have. In fact one very impassioned question is what does it mean to be created in the image of god . You first have to ask is that about some characteristics that we humans share or is a purely a divine gift . Is it about our capacity for rationality and reason . Is it about our capacity of morality and empathy . Is it about our capacity to vision the future, art, culture . Of the four, five, six species that were around 100,000 years ago, they all had them, not just us. Reasoning, inelect. Yes. So why are we here . Why are they here . You can debate how long ago they were here and what the impact was but the point is when we say homosapien and sapien, us in the image of god, why werent they or were they . A tiger and an elephant. How far back do you want to push it . Exactly. I have a doctoral student who is a catholic and biologist working on the question. If he uses mirror Image Resolution as a test for the capacity for revelation or communication, you have to have a sense of self to be able to receive gods love and revelation. Gotta know its me in the mirror. Exactly. If thats key capacity needed and if dolphins and whales share that and dogs dont should we be radical and say there is something about those species and their relation to god. Once you say that, there are profound ethical questions about how you treat them. Well go from that. He left out image of god looking like us. Bob Russell Center for theology and natural sciences, 30th anniversary. Stay with us. Well be back to wrap up. Did you know kids who play outdoors have healthier lungs . Totally. I did. Did you know that boys that play with dolls make better husbands . My son has lots of dolls. But did you know terry cloth diapers breathe better . I did. Oh, yeah, yeah. Did you know that strollers have the right of way on a sidewalk . Yes. Yup, i did. Did you guys know did you know that kids who eat breakfast have higher gpas . Yeah, i know. Yeah. Thats actually what i was going to say. Did you know babies should never touch silver . Its really bad for them. I knew that. Did you guys know that statistically friendly kids have more friends . Mmhmm. Thats obvious. Did you know most people think theyre using the right car seat for their kid, but theyre not . Announcer parents who really know it all know for sure that their child is in the right seat at the right age and size. Visit safercar. Gov therightseat to make sure your child is protected. Im putting that on my blog. I just put it in mine. Center for theology and natural sciences, we have been talking this half hour about human genes, big bang, and the image of god in creatures. Ctns. Org. Ctns is celebrating its 30th year in the bay area, dialogue of science and religion. Bob russell, where did you grow up . In l. A. I came to stanford, went to seminary, met my wife charlotte. Charlotte is in the studio with us. She is. Shes a pastor in berkeley. I worked in the chapel with students and came back here in 81 or 82 and began teaching students. What do you like to do when you are not teaching, reading, or writing . When is that . Thats what i thought. Play piano. The new book, the name again . Time in eternity. You have a journal. Tell us about the journal. We do. This is a membership organization. You can go online to ctns. Org and sign up as a member. We have members worldwide. You get our referee journal online and in print called theology and science, not surprising, picture of Golden Gate Bridge on the cover. We have Public Forums during the fall and spring. Anyone is welcome to come. We have annual fellowship conference people can sign up for. We have a lot of stuff going on especially in the fall. A great resource for the bay area, center for theology and natural sciences. Thanks to dr. Robert russell and for charlotte being in the studio with us. Well be back next month. If you think that science and religion are anethetical, not really true, find a way to be involved. Well see you again for mosaic next month. Authors. A big walk for charity in san fr we are good morning everyone. I am frank mallicoat. Welcome to bay sunday. We have a great show with two authors and a big walk for charity in San Francisco. First we will take you to the movies. The San Francisco latino Film Festival is celebrating its 7 7th anniversary featuring films from u. S. And latin america. We are excited to have the founder with us. John martinez is featured in one of the films. How are you . Doing well. You have been doing this for a number of years. How excited are you and what can we expect in 2015 . We are really excited. Its the 7th season. Its harold to ev