Former National Security advisor tom donlon and c. E. O. Deputy director is key member of the group that advised the president how to reform the nsa. All that plus our own panel of analysts. 60 years of news, because this is face the nation. Good morning again, the House Intelligence Committee chairman mike rogers has been out front from the beginning defending the nsa programs since they first came under fire, mr. Chairman, welcome. Thank you. Schieffer i want to ask you about the president s speech, but the first thing i want to get to is that you suggested that perhaps Edward Snowden had some help from the russians. He of course the man who dumped all of this information out on us from the web and from the american files. What do you say to that . Couple of things, i said that there hes likely to have had help, i think there are some interesting questions we have to answer that certainly would lend one to believe that the russians had at least in some part something to do with a, either helping his capabilities. We notice that a guy that was worried about privacy issues spent a lot of time as recent dia report revealed stealing information of vast majority of which had nothing to do with the nsa program and everything to do with our military capabilities, army, navy, air force, marines. Number one. You have to go and look for that information. Theres some security things that he did get around that were clearly above his capabilities. The way he departed how he ended up in moscow, we still have some questions there, but i can guarantee hes in the loving arms of fsb agent rightened its not good for the United States or good for hinders will cost us billions of dollars, by the way, bob, to try to rectify the problems hes caused the military operations. Schieffer you said that some of the things that took place after he left adds to your suspicion. Tell us what you can about that. Sure, theres a couple of things that we worry about. One is there were some, at least some events and some small reflections on everything from how he prepared to leave, his root of departure and how he quickly ended up in moscow. All of those things raise questions and theres some of that still under investigation. Theres some clear evidence there ha Something Else was going on. This wasnt a random smash and grab run down the road end up in china, bastion of Internet Freedom and russia the same. Something more was going on there. And because of the nature of the information that was stolen, again, nothing to do with americans privacy a lot to do our operations overseas. Some of those operations, by the way from, military perspective are being turned off today. Thats a significant problem. It gives indications that this is not what it appears to be. And when you look at the totality of the information, you look at the vast majority of it had to do with military tactical and operational events happening around the world, one particular agency alone estimated from conversations ive had up to several billion dollars to try to fix the one military institution. Schieffer the fact that youre making these that you are revealing this just as our olympic athletes are getting ready to go to russia, are they safe . Well, i have real concerns about the safety. The russians have not been fully cooperative on a security front with sharing information that might be helpful in securing the bulk of our athletes and participants, people who are there to view the games. Im concerned. We have got to have better cooperation as we move forward. If we can ensure the absolute safety, not only of our athletes but people who are there to watch the games. I think they think this is a political embarrassing situation for them theyre not going to share, thats really the wrong attitude when youre talking about an International Event in a place where weve seen successful and targeted events. Remember this wasnt like atlanta where some guy stumbles in the park, hes a one off kind of guy, pull off an event. This is an organization that is dedicated to violence for its political gain. They have publicly stated they want to target the games, they have already targeted sturt in the region. This is a whole different animal. We need full and absolute cooperation from the russians on that front if we can make sure that our schieffer when you say theyre not cooperating, not sharing, what do you mean . Theyre cooperating to a small degree but there is information that we think is valuable about organizational activities that we are fairly confident that the russians track theyre not sharing with our Security Forces. This has been a targeted, people are pushing and pulling. This shouldnt be this difficult. It is in everyones interest including the russians to share that information with our Security Forces so that we can make sure that our activities our athletes and participants are safe. Schieffer are we doing what we should be doing here . Are we taking precautions, extra precautions . Were doing everything thats possible, our Security Services are doing everything they can to try to make sure that were safe. There is again some cooperation with the russians. We do know that it has an ending point, in this particular case shouldnt do it. We need to continue to put pressure on the russians to fully cooperate so that we can get some of these questions answered. Schieffer let me shift to ask you here to talk about this morning, the president s big speech. The changes that he outlined, did he go too far, did he get it just right, did he not go far enough . Two things, first the speech was good in the sense that it said, listen, no abuses, legal program, not a domestic spying operation that rhetoric occurred over the last year, i think he put that to bed. This was a program that was overseen by the judicial branch, congressional legislative branch and the white house. Lots of oversight, not illegal, no abuses, thats important. Secondly, disappointing part of the speech was only in washington, d. C. Can you announce the review of the review of the review in 70 days, that be a Decisive Action taken. It interjected some uncertainty in to the Business Records program that we really do need ant count on to keep us safe. Some of the other issues i think are workable. This one had an Immediate Impact on that program, especially calling for a warrant before access to the phone records. Thats concerning. Schieffer legal me ask you about this phone records business. One of the things he said needs to be addressed but he said i dont have an answer for you yet is what do we do with this vast trove of telephone numbers that the National Security agency is collecting and has under its control, some are saying that ought to be put in to private hands rather than government hands. Where do you see that going . Well, this is that uncertainty that i talked about. The president outlined, i thought well done, articulated why he thought the program was important. It closed the gap that we found after 9 11, it provided the closing of the gap of something we missed that could have helped us stop 9 11, got it. Then he said, well, i have some concerns about moving it to the private sector, outlined that very well. Then he said, but i dont think the government can do it so im going were going to conduct another 70 day review basically then review it again. Thats the uncertainty that was not helpful. Schieffer do you think private sector can do this better than the government . I look what happened here at target, whats happened at neimanmarcus, would you rather keep it under government control or move it to private . Any about what youre interesting the private sector to change some systems that they have or accommodate a government mandate. I dont think thats the right answer. Think about what weve been able to do, you lock this system away, there has been no disclosure of any of the information, no names and addresses. Imagine if you are in a Police Station you have evidence vault, it is locked and very certainly controlled about what as access thats what they have done here. They have taken what could potential leap be evidence of a crime and warrants often collect things even a warrant that has nothing to do with the crime but you need to compare it, lock it away in a vault. No names, no addresses. Then they take an overseas number that they know has been associated with a terrorist and dip in to it. Now, through that there is a court review of that, there is an ig review, internal nsa review, doj review, senate Intelligence Committee review and House Intelligence Committee review. If you move all of that to the private sector, you lose all of the review. That goes away. And you open it up to privacy concerns i dont think we talked about divorce lawyers are going to have a heyday. Private detectives on any civil matter anywhere in the country are going to have a heyday. The Companies Tell Us they believe they will be deluged with warrants on these telephone records that the companies cant sustain. And they are there to provide service to their customers not work for the government. Schieffer mr. Chairman, i want to thank you nor being with us this morning. You really brought the information that we had about this and also i think underlines just how complex this is. Thank you very much. We want to go now to colorados democratic senator mark udall hes in denver this morning, he has been one of those who has said that we need to rein in the National Security agency and i guess i would ask you, senator, how did you come down on what the president said on friday . Do you think he did the right thing . Did he go too far, not far enough . Bobf youll indulge me for a minute we got a big Football Game here in denver today. I just want the country to know that 364 days of the were were patriots but today were broncos fans. And i anticipate at the end of the day the other patriots, the new England Patriots will go home to boston and broncos will going to the super bowl. Well hope for a great game and thanks for indulging me. I think the president reached a milestone on friday, he announced the end of the bulk collection of americans phone records. He showed he was listening to those of us across the political spectrum, i feel like ive been a voice in the wilderness all these years. And were now in a position to keep faith with the constitution, to also rep americans privacy. Took the recommendation of his own panel with all due respect to my good friend chairman rogers, there have been some abuses, not intentional but there have been some abuses. Schieffer let me just interrupt you there, senator, what abuses . What were they . There was in 2009 the court ruled that there were a lot of unintentional abuses that they there for shut down the program and demanded that individual warrants be generated or individual court orders be generated to query the database. The point i want to make is that the phone companies right now are collecting all this data, were mandating that they provide it to us. Its their Business Model to collect this data theyre not going to use that data in ways that will break faith with their customers. I found chairman rogers about divorce attorneys and stuff a little bit of a reach. But the point here is that we can protect americans privacy as the panel pointed out our quality of life also keeping our country safe. The president did the right thing on the bulk Data Collection program. Well keep those authorities in place under the socalled 215 provision of the law but we wont collect every americans phone records almost every day in this massive database. Schieffer what is the difference, senator, in collecting peoples financial information, we all have to tell the government our financial status so we can pay our income tax to make sure everybody gets their taxes paid. Whats the difference in that and having somebodys phone number on record . Well, theres the important distinction here, that is the consent of the citizenry. And, bob, the law that created 215 under the leadership of jim sensenbrenner. Over time, the law has been secretly interpreted to be broader and broader and the case ive been trying to make is that we ought to limit it. We can be effective in protecting our country but we dont need to collect every single phone record of every single american on every single date. You think about it, although these are just phone numbers and times. After awhile they become a form of content. You can read, if you will, what people are doing by analyzing those numbers. When you combine that with the fact that this program has not provided uniquely valuable intelligence, theres no example of where the 215, bulk Data Collection program is uniquely valuable intelligence we dont need it. In so doing we keep faith with the constitution, we lessen the costs involved we rebuild trust in the intelligence. Thats my mission, i want to join chairman rogers and thank all the men and women who keep our country safe. I want to rebuild support for and trust in the Intelligence Committee, that trust has fall the learn its now time to rebuild it and the president took a big step forward on friday. Weve got a Mission Still front of us that to implement all the changes that he proposed. Schieffer what do you think the situation on capitol hill is for that, because what im hearing is, in the house votes may not even be there to continue the programs that we have. Here is what it means, bob. Next year these authorities expire. And i believe without real reform, not reform that the president s panel proposed in many ways the president proposed on fly day these laws will expire. So we have real motivation to get it right and to work together. Im hardened by the fact the concerns have been right, left and center. This has not divided on partisan lines. Americans privacy is at the heart of our freedom. You think about freedom. The freedom to be left alone which is what privacy is, is what really characterizes much of what we as americans think is important. Schieffer all right. Senator, thank you so much for giving your side of this very important discussion that is now going on. And we will be back in one minute. [ male announcer ] if we could see energy. What would we see . The billions of gallons of fuel that get us to work. Wed see all the electricity flowing through the devices that connect us and teach us. Wed see that almost 100 of medical plastics are made from oil and natural gas. 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Weve had lot of discussion here about the program and about disclosures that hes made it is a fair point to say we need thorough investigation as to exactly how snowden came to schieffer wouldnt that be almost obvious . Wouldnt you want wouldnt there be a thorough investigation. There is an investigation underway. It needs to be thorough and look in to all the angles. Schieffer do you think we are pursuing snowden aggressively enough . We did. I do. Schieffer do you agree with those who say maybe we should offer him some sort of maam necessity in order to get him back here . Absolutely not. I dont see any reason. Strongly against that. Snowden has done great damage to the United States across a range of dimensions, he had a lot of options here to raise issues that he might have had about these programs and in no way be for amnesty. Schieffer would you call him a traitor . Yes. Schieffer lets talk about what the president proposed and didnt propose in his speech friday about reforming the nsa. Do you think they should be reined in . I think id argue with the premises the way you phrase the question. The backdrop is important. The programs have been disclosed and discussed friday were fully authorized by congress, overseen by the court and tightly overseen within the executive branch. This street not an example that we might remember from the 1970s, where you had illegal and rogue programs that were discovered by the Church Committee and real reform. Thats not this case. These programs are fully visible. Schieffer let me just ask you this. Do you agree with senator udall who says there have been abuses, people like mike rogers say, there have been no abuses. I think what this discussion is about is emphatically not about abuses. President s review Commission Found no evidence of abuses of these programs. What this is about is the technology, the power of the technology and the future. How to ensure that these programs operate consistent with our values and in ways to give competence to both people in the United States and around the world that theyre being operated in an appropriate way. Thats important context here, we dont have evidence of abuses. What here talking about here is dealing with the capabilities the potential of these technologies ensuring things get done consistent with our values. Schieffer ask you about the report the senate Intelligence Committee put out last week, it really excoriated the state department for its role in not providing enough security for the benghazi consulate. Concluded the attack that left four americans dead, could have actually been preventable. You were the National Security advisor at the time. Do you agree with their conclusion . The report is a good report. I think its done a real service frankly. Because its a bipartisan report, signed off by all the members of the committee. They had additional things, but the core of the report is bipartisan report that reviews in a thorough way the events of benghazi. Provides a number of important recommendations which i think are quite sound. Really importantly in addition to looking forward it also looks backward i think really dealt with a number of the concerns and conspiracy theories frankly that were out there about what happened that night in benghazi. Particularly as to whether or not the government did everything it could to try to save our colleagues there. Schieffer let me ask you about this new book a former defense secretary robert gates has written. He came down pretty hard on you in various places. He also reveal many private conversations with the president. What is your overall reaction . My reaction to the book is that basically, a lot of the press reports have been not consistent with the thorough reading of the book, number one. Number two, i would remark that secretary gates and i spent hundreds of hours together. And the important thing i think that comes out of the book is the substance and decisions the president made. So, for example, secretary gates talks about the difficult process we had in working through afghan policy. In the end agrees with every decision the president made. Schieffer he suggested at this point the president when he really didnt believe in the mission thats a tough charge. Thats not true. The president came to office, reviewed afghan policy, narrowed our goal, stated them clearly, tripled the number of forces in afghanistan now on way to completing the mission. I dont think thats fair. I think fair reading. Book doesnt come to that. If you are to spend time in these discussions its not unusual for policy makers to ask hard questions. To raise concerns, indeed you as citizen should want your president in the most senior person to ask hard questions and raise he needs space for that. Schieffer he accused you of being particularly disrespectful to military leaders, citing your quote, suspicious sometimes condescending and insulting questioning of our military leaders. Let me ill say three things in response to that. One is i have the deepest respect for the military and work with the military very closely over four and a half year period, as you know. Number two, gates says, again, important to read the whole book, says during the course of his relationship with me it became very strong and very solid working relationship. He was talking about one instance at the outset. Want to repeat, i think that you and citizens around the country indeed fair reading of history you want to have your most senior National Security officials asking the hardest questions indeed if you read recent books on president bushs administration, peter bakers fine book, if you read study of the vietnam era, you would want to have the tough questions asked. Schieffer tom donilon thank you so much. Well be back with personal thoughts in a second. Of the little roomis the sy over the pizza place on Chestnut Street the modest first floor bedroom in tallinn, estonia and the southbound bus barreling down i95. This magic moment it is the story of where every great idea begins. And of those who believed they had the power to do more. Dell is honored to be part of some of the worlds great stories. That began much the same way ours did. In a little dorm room 2713. This magic moment this magic moment voseeker of the sublime. Ro. You can separate runway ridiculousness. 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Thousands of americans were sent in to harms way because the intelligence on which decisions were made was simply wrong. We should not forget that. If warp speed advances in technology have given us the ability to do better, we should embrace that not diminish it. The president gave an excellent outline of the new challenges but left the hard capacity for later, for one deciding where the vast trove of data the government is now able to collect should be stored. To me a little delay is just as well, these questions are so complex they must be based on more than emotional reaction to revelations suddenly thrust upon us. Lets take the time to think this through. In the meantime here is my tip to german chancellor merkel the way to keep others from picking up Sensitive Information on your cell phone is to stop talking on it. As the said there street a reason why blackberries and iphones are not allowed in the white house situation room. Back in a minute. 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