Doing our interview for the magazine and it's actually during the January eclipse. So here we are in a July eclipse is talking about then and I think we actually conducted our interview right around April Fool's Day. Right yes and again being a Libran dilly dallying person you were wonderfully persistent right and so you got in touch with me in January like whoa Ok because we've all had our Plutonian underworld adventures and it was at that time also that you told me that was going in for his surgery and that it wasn't as. Desirable an outcome as everyone had wished so the so it's been a long and short you know connective dynamic and then. Well I love everybody everybody's tried but but to honor Mercury because for all of us now in this collective field stationing retrograde it does seem I ve gotten so many quirky messages and doors opening and closing and hearing about other people who have died and other people it just I mean so that's why it seemed great that some trickster some mercury is scheduled ing all of us and and are. Today because it's like that's really great it's kind of like where's the field opening and you know again it is so fluid I when I say it's a fluctuating field and may all beings feel relaxed and Jonty and we can have a great ally David Grimes reminds us that in the most turbulent of rapids there's always a silver tongue of. And want to feel our way to that. But you pointed out let me let me let me toss it to you that now Mercury stationing Retrograde is right on time talked or is your nose where your nose was when he was born rising and anyway you want to tease us into this and then I want to bring in your innocent or some Democrat again a Muslim but you pointed that out to me. And. It's really interesting one of my teachers is Maurice Fernandez and he kind of talks about the 12th house as more of a career house necessarily than the 10th or the 6th and so I find as a needle placement for time having that you're honest in the 12th house and how much he has been such a huge influence in our community and particularly about allowing a publication to honor all the vote different voices and the different ways that astrology can be spoken and practiced and sorry feel like he's just been such a beautiful tribute to that and so for us to be talking with you know Mercury Retrograde stationing on his ear honest it's even more of that opportunity for us to be able to communicate his life's work and celebrate all of us that practice this language and share this language. Beautiful great and I love I love the Sabian symbols again where we're in a metaphoric realm of storytelling you know and see if it resonates in all of us but we're more curious now where are you and this was when Ted was born rising in the east its image as a deer with folded horns and a and formally dressed man it's an animistic totem it relates to the part of all of us that is sort of disco ised as human in some form and and then I'll say this because it's cool for the astrologers but then will dance with it so Mercury's on is your Innes and your Innes 1st time in 84 years is stationing at 6 degrees Taurus which is Thames Midheaven the point pretty much overhead when he was born that astrologers call work right many many complex parts of the language and it is work but it but I think it's really even bigger it's our intent into the collective you know what we're calibrated to send and receive and I'm. Wild About as in country as the previous show we like many voices many voices but about your newest natures evolutionary genius trickster liberating all liberating arts and all I think of the 12 houses everything that has been dissed exiled forgotten but is said to be where our cultures soul is right so it's work in that sense and so you have time and it resonate within all of us you know you're honest astrology as Rick Tarnas says it's become the gold standard of contempt for people who aspire to be intellectuals. But who don't know anything about it because it's in fact this exquisite language of our interior psyche and its connection to the whole larger thing but but I love and to honor you know the dedication of town and on way out but going in oh he and I want you to bring up the nature camps and all and how we and how we want to evolve how we gather and then to say this beautiful thing and the power of gathering and the image for his son in Leo It's Mardi Gras and you know honest the animism that has been exiled just but which we need most now and then you're in this on his mid haven't sensual participatory animism wheel and deal next 7 years you know as the only. Way to go really so. Yes And and I forgot where I was going to hand that to you but but feel free to converse or to invoke I was I was reading the interview you did with me bless your wonderful kind incredibly indefatigable and persistent heart and I realize I did go ahead and then you asked a succinct question and I was like What about it so however however you want to you know jump in but but. You know it and then we can bring your charge into play too because it's all it's all prudent There we go. Again you're going to talk about your own son Neptune and Neptune in quality of you know I had to be persistent to make sure that this energy you happened with you and I and honestly my main motivator was Tim and I was like Ok I can't let him down I've got to make sure I don't interview halfpence So again I find it very secretive state I feel his push right now for us to be doing this interview and I love that you talked about the baby and symbol for his Iran as you said it was a. It's about your withholding horns in a formally dressed man it's the world of humans part of. And again one of the things I had noticed when I looked at his chart when I 1st came onboard to t.m.a. Was that he and I as Mars are conjunct his is 23 degrees Pisces and minus 25. And in my studies you know Mars in Pisces is very affiliated with animals they tend to feel more at home in nature and more connected to animals sometimes than they do humans so I feel like that symbol is so perfect for him and you were talking about the nature cam still so what he did was he planned to plan it camps and part of that was he didn't like necessarily the stuff the aspect of the way a lot of astrological conferences are you know we go to like a Doubletree Hotel and we certainly have air conditioning buildings and he wanted a place where we could all gather in nature I say we I wasn't there I was a child. Where astrologers could gather in nature and also you know kind of do the impromptu like what do you want to talk about get on stage and you don't have to be a big name or. Somebody special it's let's all get together and talk about this language and celebrate our love of the planets and so again this kind of bringing in both of those aspects of this human element and the being in nature and being connected to animals and talking to everything and for me I think one of the ways astrology is so beautiful is it does give us more words more language to understand ourselves and how to talk to everything you know talk to the plants talk to the animals build books talk to you. That's beautiful know that's great that's really great. And. What it also is how shall we gather and I. I didn't go to those planet camps it sounds just exactly what I would wanted some way maybe I did back in prehistory But yeah the stuffy aspects of the conferences you know we want to honor. Discrepancy as an incentive to experiment because it is it is trippy being in corporate hotel talking about liberating ideas the corporate hotels are designed so that liberating ideas can barely escape. Right and it's a question for all of us how shall we gather and you know I've been you know and see it and participated in many music festivals all of which are great gatherings great gatherings you know but it is you know how can we gather in the way that you suggest and many I have a have a category now of prison masquerading as freedom and it's nuance but a lot of the festivals are like. At 5 a and I go one of the birds think about that. So manners manners you know and I think you're innocent Tauruses me our species have collaborative manners again and we know that in the nature you know even predator prey has manners right that it is it is this this dance there's much to say about that but but yeah so the gathering is is is wonderful and. Addressing the contrast and then let's bring up the power of symbolism you know that is so strong in for everybody right for everybody and so when Tam was born he has. You know he's a fire water guy you know steam you know with little earth only one air but the air is Neptune that's a good one and the image for his Neptune is a person in deep gone unnoticed a glowing circle of angels arounds them well. And he's had a sun quintile Neptune so if you're only going to have one heir which means you're really working hard to put that magazine out it's not flibbertigibbet. But you have irresistible eloquence to be an agent for the power of metaphor and the liberating imagination in the world we go off that. And so so are all or all kind of Neptune in here because this beautiful language really does want to guide us back into thinking feeling symbolically that the world is speaking to us all the time. In symbolic form we start with astrological chart is stylized actual factual map and we go real maps symbolic map. So just one last thing before I toss it back to you 2 which I think is so important what you what you just said which is. Leo Leo Leo Leo Leo part of a celebratory. Thames chart Mardi Gras sun rising. Volunteer church choir Leo ascendant Pluto moon. In Leo with a 100 part of the Yoda at 150 degree angle to Mars in Pisces Mars in Pisces back to Neptune up in Sept I would like meaning I think it's so important for all of us that our creativity and that performance thing be all was in service to Mars in Pisces. The dedicated magic collective well being right. And and that's. But well does that resonate with you part of what what Tim was caring for us all yes absolutely and again you know you're talking about his son and it was Leo still any you know triple Leo Sun Moon ascendant Plus you're honest and Pluto. And there's this element you know when you have sun and Leo in the 12th house that you know fame can kind of naturally find you and what I really loved about his spirit was while he was able to really grace this t.m.a. Stage and create you know beautiful work through these magazines he was also so humble and you know wasn't somebody who was hungry for the stage and he really wanted to share it. And I think that that was you know and integrity part of who he was. Yeah and we might say you know with the Politico the mysteries of. Life you know that we can't live through the dead but we can invite what we admire in the dead to live through us and that's why I think we've sort of been convened and convening with you know with yourself and a digital when I was like oh well but this one by original guest on Wolves will be future in the hubbub about doing radio now Ray and you're like oh great it's like I think you've combing through the good we want that to be true and it does those fuel like it you know and. You know Fareed and I especially love that within our interview we actually kind of talked about the wolf model of leadership so for you to say that your guest today was going to be speaking on wolves and couldn't come. And again you know to kind of bring in an element of the transits went past him and he was having a venous return of the innocent cancer in the 11th house and one of the ways I see that is you know he was very much a goddess worship her and in the leavened house it being Astra which is I think he had a particular affiliation and affection for. And so right now kind of in the wake of him leaving is there is there's actually 7 women here who are carrying the team carrying the magazine one of those being his wife and I feel like he would have wanted that just empower us and the fact that he has the last magazine being the August September issue which is his birth month and it being a celebration of women you know women of consequence in the interview with you it just felt very. Symbolic very in tune. Yeah and again it is we're all we're all we're all in this dance together you know everybody's got a you know a Saturn Pluto a culture of death rebirth into which you know throwing and collectively the micro macro again which is such a crucial part of this language that Thames really honored with the authors that he had you know contribute to the mountain astrologer for years really smart interesting collective teasing of strategy and pattern tracking and just just what it should be again mountain astrologer dot com team. You know it's a it's a very smart guy and maybe even more. Now when we receive Gratefully the baton and I love that your honest which has always been a struggle with astrology that which has been dissed but which is in fact liberating in that we need more than ever before it's right on is Mitt haven't you and I love you no esoteric writer Dion Fortune saying the purpose of ritual magic is to spiral into group mind expanded wisdom and tolerance we go that's great and. And then. Toss to the Jupiter transits I find it so heartening Jupiter the intelligence of curiosity blessing and journeys often long journeys is is very often the signature of departure of death but as great astrologer Evangeline Adams said in the 40s she goes we all come under death aspect 2 or 3 times a year it's a question of when we go it's a wrap or go to Jupiter was exactly trying times rising sign when he died and we I mean I don't presume to know at all about these mysteries of death and what it really isn't everything but according to his language we go we would wish that from the challenging ordeal of illness that's so hard to friends you know who died that way and then may it be the relief. And and then you yourself you know are having a Jupiter transit right this 2nd Right right the 2nd which I excuse me while I reach for a book briefly. Because I just wanted to read the same b.s. Because they are it's uplifting So when temp dies Jupiter in the sky is retrograde in Word the outward journey is inward and deep at 16 degrees subject areas his right. Since I'm 16 Leo and we do find solace in meaningful patterns going it's not a random thing it's a living breathing thing and we are pattern tracking beings and we're all in the stream together so the image. You know as you put or danced with him in May May be so May His Spirit be bright and liberated the images a gloriously changing ring of golden light circles the horizon drawing people from their houses in reverent admiration the unfolding glory of the cosmos devotional worship of the divine blossoming of cosmic consciousness the kinship of the spiritual He dedicated dedicated to promoting a new age you know and as he time could say that without it being choosy desire for group experience of a spiritual nature of just what you were saying go well done lad. And then way back it's very beautiful it's the Steve version of the Sabian symbols but he's a scholar he's allowed to mess around with them and I like that one and then for yourself just for the fun of it as you kindly sent me your choice because we're all in this dance together and we're all parts of each other and there we go but I thought look at you and and and the fact that you are a 2nd generation astrologer which is great and your Saturn is 15 such a terrace rising in the east keeper of a teaching tradition that has been dissed but once to come alive. And as Jupiter has changed degrees and is right on that right now expanding what you've been dedicated to it's images equitorial explored drift down a jungle stream in a sailboat life is a grand adventure determination to see through one's life ideals come hell or high water you know we go is that. Does that resonate with yourself as a you know it's your Saturn but it's like it's coming alive yes absolutely and again Michael and let me and pushed. Today I hear you go right take the stage with Caroline honor me honor the magazine carry the torch of the magazine return one of the things he placed in my hands bravely and. Talking about the Jupiter Trying to his ascendant and his son as he passed chairs definitely a release and I was talking to Kate his wife just before this and you know one of the things that needs to be said was just how bravely he faced all of this Lake Hughes just I mean honestly want to be kind of men but just you know not hardly a peep of you know complaining you know he just took it all in stride and really kind of trusted this path trusted what was the following him and it was. An inspiration and a lot of ways to all of us of how to honorably and with dignity face our. Disappearing our going to the other side of the veil. Yes And I remember you an analyst saying some years ago going you know it's even tougher for modern wizards I don't. And I was thinking of all the wizard the men that I know right and many are hanging in there and we wish along with. But you know himself noticed all the young lived a very long time but he said that many of his magical equal men friends all died young the last you know and so it is it is it is it is challenging to be a wizard and then maybe are I like thinking really of all men underneath everything as wizards and maybe we speak about the initiation of the gentle man and because we might say the world is being run by a uninitiated Mars sociopathic 14 year old with no Venus in every round of toxicity and minor annoyance you know the full spectrum of like an annoying kid you know. And or that's a dangerous toxic kid right and so that idea of you know wizardry initiation and men coming into gentleness. Mars and Pisces Thames Mars and Pisces which is you know strong enough to be gentle It's what I tell my giant muscular dog Captain moon strong enough to be gentle and he's like Oh Ok And there was a there was a kind of biker guy in and he's like oh I'm looking for another tattoo What should I have and I go how about strong enough to be gentle he's like That's cool and I have. 0 but but I mean just that also is that a quality of times medicine strong enough to be gentle Yeah. That's the it's the best you know and what you say about you know facing an arduous Nyssa mean we all you know often given a couple of bitter wine or or the little transits which is always something we drag or not you know and it's. You know and then again we let's go back to Neptune for all of us right how shall we metaphorically cooperate with our customized circumstance personal and collective. And I love my longtime astrological buddy Sylvia Handley it was Sylvia. That I've known for 40 or more years. But she said quintiles they are irresistible eloquence and as we've kind of come to understand they're really democratic and just to speak of something is to make it available to everyone listening. Is the capacity to hold a true perception and be like a tuning fork meaning we don't have to convince or believe you are could call anybody they go oh tell him so and so I read that article or since you guided my gaze that way Orson I see that now right so it's guiding everyone to their own autonomy which is a long lasting influence and what Sylvia said yes it is all those things but it's also the capacity to open doors to open portals you know and to open portals and let the imaginative pour in you know and and the rich history of astrology it's like Arnold said to be cultured is to be acquainted with the highest possibilities of the human spirit timing with Oh it's a good start. But I think also the astrological you know all the Ask a lot you know and how and what do we want to visualize even if it's if we if we just wanted to be true that the entire ancestral astrological community really welcoming Temin going good work lead you know there's more Sileo for Chino astrologer of the Mideast She's my buddy back in the Renaissance you know stepping forward going to work good because you did not invoke superstition. And what you were saying about the nature of games I love that mostly if it you know was always be raiding the the astrologers of Florence for turning into a priesthood right May I buy real estate or marry this person oh yeah they were just nonsense you know no you may not and so mostly if it's you know it's going now it's not meant to be a priesthood it's meant to. Be a guide to choreography that resonates within our hearts and and Tim was you know there's not a priesthood guy right now and have it all and again I think that's part of why he was able to. You know hold space for all these different types of astrology and all the different ways that it shows up in all the different ways that we use it is you know he really wanted to celebrate it as an art a map a language I hated like all the different ways that people could come together with it and in particular when everything that I've always admired about him and the magazine and I think that this really kind of ties and to have a margin Pisces you know quincunx but Neptune the ability to bring humor to it. And sometimes they feel like we can get so serious and. Being able to laugh about things it's important and in particular it lacks our self and we laugh at ourselves of astrologers and when we do get too stuffy. Yeah right no that's really really important because we're going to take a very very short musical break in some seconds but we will be right back after that I'll hold this thought what we'll do our short behold break I wonderful guest today is Ray Sapp we are honoring Tom Tara Tara who was a great contributing dedicated luminary to the astrological community which is a community it's huge it's smart it's interesting and we will be right back after this very short break. I don't know. Maybe you know you slow. Down. Welcome back Elyse the visionary activist show on your Weaver of context and fellow called navigator in this swirling mysterious field Caroline Casey we are gathering to honor the life of temporary star who was a great member of the astrological community publisher of the mountain astrologer mountain astrologer dot com a really smart good and I guess we have a very diverse listenership bellowed everybody in prison Hello everybody is a scientist a lot everybody was master mythologised Yes many many nuances all welcome but a really smart representation a great voice for authentic astrology who died on July 8th and we are honoring we are welcoming his his colleague a writer and contributor on the magazine Ray Sapp who interviewed me for the current issue of the wood and well you just said an important thing right before the break there and I was like Ok let me hold the start here about the importance of humor and not being stuffy because people who practice in distant eccentric fields sometimes over Saturn compensate and they really want daddy to approve and it's like not going to work you know. And so they can become even more kind of stuffy and suited and virgins like you're never going to go daddy's approval just give it up but also reminded me let's let's invite all the ancestors of mercury to get everybody wants to speak everybody coming in who brought what medicine and my great Aries body vying to Loria one of the great Native American leaders who. Was a wonderful body and and a great. Disruptor let's honor Eris right there we go a great disruptor of pretense and you guys I need so many people have invented themselves you know and you know fold mythologized there's a real mythology but I think part of what Tim embodies too is we can use this astrology but we don't want to use our Miss ology but we don't want to use mythology for inflation or a status right it's like no you're not Venus you're an agent of Venus anyway but by the last time I saw with also great ancestor hood there's the ancestral community that only gets bigger. Absolutely look at the Library of Congress and Bob said you know it was all the great Native American in leaders and everything and Bob said it's only vines presence here that keeps fistfights from breaking out of there and vines said in closing he said today I meet many many young activists who are very very serious about themselves and he said we were always serious about the issues but all was playful and then ourselves now we go back to Wolves That's right which I mentioned in the interview and you know I hadn't read the interview but I got a wonderful review from from. A person in the Bay Area thank you thank you and I go it must of been pretty good that he's right. But it is a lot of the wolf thing and then we will have the the wolf connection authored tale in some perfect on for a wing things but what wolves playful playful. I mean like I said when I think they really appreciated about humor his playfulness and I think that that really came out in the magazine and. Kind of emerging really you know I'll let me briefly and articles from I did on the. In types of astrology and just from different astrologers while also being playful having Like I said the cartoons in the magazine and being funny and. Just really great blend of those 2 things of not ever. Of great caliber but also like I said not taking itself too seriously right nor being too easy because look those the covers to the magazine are pretty great I mean they're this you know well done you know and we love we love standards and I just want to also bring up you does everything right. That you're in this is fun times you know that haven't but also training has Mercury Jupiter conjunction how beautiful. Mercury's image is a guardian angel watching over a couple in the wilderness and and so yeah and who has his beloved wife right we want to send all follows right yes absolutely and actually it and you act last year the mountain astrologer magazine won most professional image award and you go again kind of a ode to his humility when he got here it's like this is really Ferdinand who is our senior editor and again went to the great Astro which is here who helps keep the quality of our magazine and she has been on staff for 20 years and so again just his ability to. Like I said share the spotlight share the stage you know he never was hungry for it to be about him he really wanted it to be about all the people he worked with and the language itself. And you know Mercury Jupiter in Virgo the medicine man the wizard interested in many many many things deeply sextile Venus is going to full you know the beautiful and useful and that's all coming alive and it is a mystery that people's charts continue to respond to transits even after they've died and I'll get right to influence the influence keeps going and going to exactly trying his Jupiter now again liberating complexity and wisdom and I love you know as we convened you know the chart of our our coding everybody here are gathering you know is mercurial overhead retrograde going for everybody who would you like to be in touch with in history myth fairy tale whatever re reconnecting right next to Mars and Mars is Sabian is the constellations of the night sky a globe lazing only in the desert the endless unfolding wonder of the universe and we go that's right so that's presiding over us and that's good. And I was sort of watching as we were. Backstage preparing going on the moon just trying not to and was it in 1000 Scorpio which as Sylvia told me years ago the Ministry elders of the Middle Ages didn't like they called it the a curse degree of the a curse that sign because its image its power is a woman draws back to the dark curtains leading to a sacred pathway who no priesthood there right to begin guiding people to their own autonomy and I go yes yes but that's part of the cauldron of the moon sextile Saturn Pluto you know. Everything into the cauldron all teachings all everything all certainties all whatever with the criterion does it is it equal Mars and Venus equal men and women equal Schumann's and the rest of our kin on this planet does it guide people to their own autonomy Yes we laid it out no we throw it back in for another round of bubbling. Let's. You know is there anything. Would you like to throw anything into the cauldron or have your own your own standards in that room or. The game as far as the theme of throwing things in the cauldron and I really feel like right now with the Saturn Pluto south node conjunction in Capricorn I think we're all going things into the cauldron and it's just what structures do we want to release. What do we want to make room for for new structures and you know as far as us talking about how we gather and you know kind of bringing in Thames planet camps and how we use astrologers who tend to be nature based not all of us but a lot of us. Is this idea of how we're going to gather into the future as I really feel like there is this shift between the generations particularly you know the Pluto in Leo generation versus my millennial generation of Pluto and Scorpio and there's this tension of the square and there's idea of how are we going to dismantle these old structures and create ones that work better for us and all life on earth but you know part of my generation is they're really into astrology and you see articles all the time about the rise in interest of astrology among millennial and I feel like we as a community particularly all of you who I consider you know elders the elder witches and wizards who preside over this language and they're going to move into even We're going to move on. Really. Honored this language honored this art and how do we bridge these 2 worlds how to you know part of this my generation is there can be this feeling like you don't have the elders that you're searching for and you want some kind of structure to guide you and yet you know you mention what I would consider a famous astrologers name and they look at you I go I never heard of. It sir I feel like there's this element of how do we bridge these 2 generations how do we all come together in honor of this language and present ourselves to the rest of the world in a way of you know kind of taking the sacred art out of the exiled club and being like no we are this is a great tool for living and I find that it really is kind of an emotional weather forecast and you know the reason I like the term Astro man fair is you know it's this idea of astrology is magic but also being able to channel these transit was like How do you use them rather than being fearful of oh you know I've got Saturn on my moon or you know all these other transits that we know as practitioners can be very difficult to untie one of the drugs. But using it and rather than fearing it. Right and we have a great example of that right exactly of liberating ourselves from superstitious or old or young nonsense you know so so I am I am I'm a big fan of Megan. Rapinoe That's right almost a big event in our last name by the way just just going well in that upwards one dies and I was going to guess her chart going on there's got to be a strong Mars there I don't know that I would have guessed cancer but so many cancers so Megan Rapinoe Elizabeth Warren Marianne Williamson are all cancer women you know cancer is just a Scorpio and housecoat so did shakeups with Jupiter Aquarius You know to tease Wolf Enos into public thing but but as she won right as she won championship with her team with her team Saturn was exactly opposite her Mars at 17 cancer and say I love Again Sylvia my teammate saying Saturn transits of my get something done right there we go and and it is that model that she embodies which is the antidote to fear or depression or external tyranny or Trump is the deeper dedication and training. And the liberating confidence that comes from that and it's like because because again you know how astrology has been taught and you know all these things and anything that's liberating can also be imprisoning their ego it can be a beacon of light that illumines or sale or the thing in the world kind of gathering and in this way to go to limit somebody's sense of what's possible is spiritual harassment really you know and I've got the right throwing that into the cauldron. But I love you know what you say I'm in Jupiter is also on your rising sign $1000.00 plus a Sagittarius which many maven astrologers of called the global crisis whether climate crisis degree because its image is humans cutting ice in winter force. For summer use long term cyclical Forsyte So that's a really important degree and there's Here you are nice and then there's your fabulous Capricorn self so we want you know reciprocal blessing that the path opening and inclusive and I just want to also honor your Pluto are you said the Pluto and Scorpio generation. Which is a more fun term really than Millennial but from my old fogie self but your Pluto is 9 plus Corp e.o. And c I love I learned this it's almost some damn astrology conference which they're worth even in their corporate form you know the magic because somehow it's worthy but we still want to evolve. But if we look at the back of a $100.00 bill there's a clock tower there and if we do use that as a time it gives 9 Scorpio rising to America whose image is a fellowship supper reunites old comrades and we go that's what this country is supposed to be and there's your Pluto in the 9th which is just the dead the ancestral the thing the original dedication really great. You know a fellowship supper reunites old comrades. Yeah and we do run everything through cultural conditioning because that's where the 11th I was used of the wimpy title house of hopes and wishes right because it's about true gala Tarion all inclusive. Oval table you know who wrote what kind of thing you know it's the old the young the animal the wise the thing the convening all that and there's you with your moon and steam Aquarius one of the 4 gates of power that are so wonderful and so are you you're you're continuing to work at the mountain astrologer Yes Like I said . To him and I have been doing some prepping and his last couple months of like Ok what do I need to know or keep the ship going I said to him in an email one day you know my Capricorn son in the 1st house like strategy and I need a game plan and walk me through this so again. There's really a team of us and where all I said there are 7 of us women and we're taking on the gauntlet of keeping his baby his life's work alive I said I think that this magazine is such an important part of our community and the fact that it has spanned 32 years just kind of speaks to its. Relevance and it's the way it can reach people and we want to make sure that that continues to go on. Right and we love the you part of us are you part of all of us in a sense you know they are mercury same degree conjunction with Neptune they go you a pragmatic mystic my favorite thing in the world and the image for that is also in my favorite degrees for your Mercury Neptune is 10 logs lie in front of an archway leading to deeper darker woods and we go. You know a transition guide strategy transition strategy you know. And you honest is trying that which is almost always you know freedom gained through loss or the next adventure and here you go so that's powerful strong. Yeah so you so you are it's well that's in the and that's also you know again when you were persistent in wanting to interview me as well as the 10000 things you were doing in talking to attempt to prepared and the baton but and so that's right because I couldn't I can barely remember all of that myself but but but I'm so honored what he really wanted you to interview me you said you had to you had to keep on my labor and self to make sure it happened right well part of it was even men you know with him facing. Surgery and stuff Blake what can I take off of your plate you know how can we help you so that you can do my homework and Ok fine you in your house and part of it was you know in the next coming issue you know I had already announced that we were doing our interview because we had agreed to it but it hadn't actually happened and felt like oh man like if the president this is got to have. A very long term planning I mean it was a again you know it's like well you plan 34 months out that's so impressive. Long term cyclical foresight was didn't micro amounts that's really great so I mean it's this magazine I miss him they have such an amazing rhythm and again in his whole career I believe he didn't miss a single deadline and all right which is impressive and like I said me coming on I am a. Mercury Neptune fun caring so I like you sometimes I'm not great at. Getting deadline am for info like learning the rhythm of the publication and and the like Ok we're preparing for this issue but if you know 34 months ahead of time and kind of straddle ing these 2 time space continuum really interesting to learn. Yeah not all of it but it's all I mean we're all who wrote what way everybody's got it you know there are these these wonderful language of qualities of intelligence you know residing within us to connect us and to that in the world you know and everybody is comprised of us but in a completely unique and emic assignments so yeah you know but you know we love you as an incarnation of Saturn and there's Saturn rising inside Terri is and and and I think you know the pragmatic mystic the long term vision I like also will Solomon guest on the show. The clean money revolution about you know we can do this but I like one of the things that his Saturn says it was we have a a 50 year plan and a 500 your vision go. That's a great aspiration so in a way you know it's as well you don't have to have a 50 year plan a 500 your vision but kind of in that way you know it's like you know that and you know what we're all good at of course the Neptunian who is wondering where we're going on the fuel of wonder I wonder what the vision would be I wonder what this wants to change and wonder Yeah but it but I think it's a great thing to be able to spiral out to all who find it resonant you know the that the mountain astrologer may be even more known going No look about and because when you mention you act the United astrology Congress which is a hoot and again it's I think I think everything should have an episode of South Park I mean everything we're ready should be satirized in some form because it's it's an act of respect so you act as a hoot it's a 1000 plus astrologers from all over the world and you know like this trial just from Russia pretty gloomy right very predictive you know and but but it is it is it is a science fiction kind of Hoot in which we asked logical community and to realize how rich it is and there's scholars you know and Robert translating from Greek and Hebrew and thing I mean these are people who know stuff you know and you know it deeply etched cultivated kind of beings and it is it is quirky because when I read in your adorable don't many bio at the end of the thing you know that. From early on Ray's been a big fan of Carolyn case he's going I guess I am old. Because it is it is the interesting journey and you know when I went to London to study with Mary Greer Mary Greer born the same day different year there were only 2 there were only 2 young American a kind of news knocking on the door of the astrological lodge and in London and we just got in there separately out of. Guided whimsey or something and it was the old guard you know London thing Liz Green was was was the star been even then in the seventy's going because she's not only astrologers he's a union analyst right and then there were really old guard. Amazing people John addy who was sort of like. Just a you know I a disabled genius. Those amazing people you know and then I studied with Isabelle Hickey who again we have the blue haired cranks who carried the torch through the dark ages you know and and our astrology classes she would always have people study patterns by studying plane crashes and stuff and it's like oh you have the same thing as an employee anyway so it's all adorable he before he bowled right and then it flows into now and now maybe at its most. Powerfully contributing you know I kind of cultural choreography of how humans are rogue species can can rejoin the the choreography of creation and you under out of that you have many. Many Adventures that you're brewing Yes. And again you kind of talking about the cold or an aspect of Pluto Saturn on the South Node in Capricorn right now I really feel that this is a time when we are preparing for Pluto and Saturn and Jupiter moving into Aquarius and what you know as a resonance of the ruler of astrology you're honest Aquarius 11th house type things is that you know how are we going to prepare I'm unique in the fact that you know my mom started I started studying astrology when I was 6 months old and I took. Great interest at it very early on you know I would sit there and stare at the symbols with her chart seems like I'm never going to learn how to read this like she does and she'd give me books and she's like here go read everything about Aries and report back and so you know I've admired your work and been exposed to so many great astrologers of your generation from an early age and it's truly a gift but like I said what I like about being part of t.s.a. And what I would like to see is this kind of bridging of the generations because well I know who all of you are and love you and Mary definitely those around me who know you too there's still this this gap this like oh I'm interested in astrology but who are the elders you know we don't have a over branching certification and that is part of our beauty but there's also this element of will we create more of a structure growing forward what will the revival or renaissance of our art look like in the coming era. Right and you know and then going to that crucial wondering and all of us you know it's like well let the dedication Saturn grow the form Saturn as opposed to trying to stuff it into a preexisting thing and I think that it's like already then let it grow its own form because there's the there are these conversations very because every now and then that you act and through the decades people go we're going to make a sort of occasion of what it takes to be an astrologer and they'll be an exam and I go. I'm never going to take that exam but I could but I could create you know my standards of what I think it means to be an educated astrologer and you wouldn't pass Oh right so let's not do it was not to do that let's you know guidelines it's like going to Kyoto you know no no blocking just guidelines going over there or there we go but I think lively discourse is great. And integrated on Hogwarts for astrology and again if they weigh heavily this type of sect of astrology and here's this one which one do you want to major and which one do you want to study like that rather than having to put one certification of this is what it takes to be an astrologer because again the diversity of our practice is part of it drink right well and white and yeah. That's why I love the word maven you know information resource and it's Demitra George keeping you know the Greek and the thing alive in their trips to Delphi 100 meter and asteroids and well there's you know there are people who are dedicated to each part of them if ology as well as the whole broad overview but where were or on our way d. Convening is there. A well wishing you would like to send out or to receive you know for yourself or 10 for the not an astrologer for his beloved Kate yes a big night out to the entire team. You may take your lead to him the founder and publisher but anyone who's been a part of this like there is an element of the magazine that I feel like belongs to the community of astrology because it has been this platform for so many voices and you know letting people know check out the mountain astrologer that come and get the magazine. And be able to like I said take this into the future. Not letting this 32 years what he's created. Become part of the past kind of making sure that we continue to rally as individuals and have a place where astrology can be celebrated Yeah and spiral forth into you know no longer in the ghetto That's right well it isn't really but that's wonderful as a guideline for how humans can humbly cooperate with the guiding genius of nature and more like that anyway so thank you so much Ray for your dedication for your persistence in doing the interview for your receiving the baton from time to our car you know and and to the whole community that you honor and the 7 which you women and all of that you know we're we're all in the stream and much much blessing and solace and and all you know at this huge mystery time when any part of our team goes back stage mysterious and I thank you very much Ray Thank you Caroline. That's great this is Caroline Casey we will reconvene next week of course thanks always to Erica Bridgeman the Bard up there we go and coyote Network News dot com You can find out more and follow me on Twitter if you feel like it stand up coyote and all those things and they will all be available to whatever we need to hear and to be heard we heard to play our role in Destiny will fulfill 50. Do you. Owe. I. Owe. I do you owe. The case against free speech is a new book that exposes the ominous forces and creepy political machinations increasingly defining free speech our investment in the 1st Amendment has long obscured a dark truth actual free speech is impossible in any society in which corporations and the ultra rich can easily bankroll their own views b e Moscowitz author of the case against free speech the 1st amendment fascism and the future of dissent will appear Wednesday August 28th 7 30 pm at 1st Congregational Church of Berkeley 2345 Channing way to skate you have a benefit wheelchair accessible will be hosted by Philip Mount Airy get tickets at brown paper tickets dot com or indie bookshops in the East Bay As for p. E. Moscow It's August 28th. You're listening to 94 point one k. P.f.a. In 89.3 k. P.f.b. In Berkeley 88 point one k f c f in Fresno 97.5 k 248 p.r. In Santa Cruz in online worldwide a key p.f.a. Dot o r g. Welcome to book wave some ritual and my guest is Barry Lopez whose latest book is horizon a Barry Lopez was written several books there are 10 novels or works of fiction 7 nonfiction books including horizon there's also a couple of books you've edited primarily a travel writer but I think of yourself more as a traveler than a travel writer well things change for every writer from the beginning are you writing all the time is it your desire to become a writer or be a writer so if I look back over 52 years of published work. I guess what I see is some. He was always a writer and had a deep concern for language and the effect of language on people and I kept retreating to the metaphors of my childhood in southern California which was all outdoors and so I was drawn to those scenes in my efforts write about something bigger if you would the big questions so the simple thing for me I guess is the noun without the adjective I am just a writer what I recall from our previous interviews which happened several years ago is that I would always walk away with a sense of optimism that I didn't have going in and I'm not sure what that was about but I always felt that optimism Well I feel that up to Ms somewhere don't hear it.