Borders the talks have been candid and firm but productive both sides continue to bring good will to the table there are a lot of complicated issues that we need to get through very very quickly. And we'll be coming back quite soon Freeland met with her u.s. Counterparts 4 times in all Thursday she in light hisor held the longest negotiating sessions century arrived in Washington Tuesday on Monday the United States and Mexico reached an agreement to replace NAFTA 24 year old pact involving those 2 countries and Canada but the New Deal excluded Canada Freeland hurried to Washington to try to repair the damage she's seeking to forge a 3 country deal by today starting a 90 day countdown that would let Mexican President Enrique Pena Nieto sign the pact before leaving office December 1st. A Los Angeles man is free on bond after being charged with making a series of phone calls threatening to kill journalists at The Boston Globe for what he allegedly called treasonous attacks on President Trump 68 year old Robert chain was arrested Thursday morning at his home in the Encino neighborhood k.b. Of K.'s Laura Cantore reports the globe led an effort for news media to use their opinion pages in support of the 1st Amendment and the paper urged a rejection of the trumpet administration anti news media rhetoric 60 year old Robert Cheney allegedly echoed President Trump's words calling news workers the enemy of the people in over a dozen threatening phone calls to the globe this month he also allegedly told employees of the globe that he'd shoot them in the head he's expected to be transferred to Massachusetts for an arraignment in federal court in Boston in Los Angeles I'm more canter Pacifica Radio k p f k the state legislature is expected to vote on a bill today that would allow publicly deliveries to start wildfire to start wildfires to pass on the cost of resulting litigation to their customers critics say the bill amounts to a corporate bailout Christopher Martinez reports the stated purpose of Senate Bill Nye no one is to prevent and defend against wildfires and to stabilize electricity corporations from liability for costs of fire sparked by their equipment it's that last part stabilizing electricity corporations that has triggered opposition from advocates who call it a bailout for p.t.s.d. . Is with Utility Reform to work or turn you to me See it's an opportunity to get permission to build car skimmers for every mistake they made as to be No one has a complicated bill of dealing with things like forest management and funding for the state Office of Emergency Services but in the middle of the bill is a provision about I have belittled for the deadly 2017 wildfires and that's what affects p.t. And. He did not respond to requests for comment s.p. No one was likely come up for votes in the Senate and Assembly Friday night just hours before a midnight deadline foothills to pass in this legislative year on the state capital beat of Christopher Martinez Ocala Florida Assembly has voted to when trying to net neutrality into state law it's a major victory for advocates looking to require an equal playing field on the Internet the bill returns to the Senate which passed an earlier version and is expected to sign off on changes from the Assembly before the bill adjourned the legislature that is adjourns today the bill is the latest effort by California lawmakers to drive national policy and rebuff President Trump It seeks to revive regulations repealed last year by the Federal Communications Commission that prevented Internet companies from exercising more control over what people watch and see online State fire officials said Thursday that the massive car fire is fully contained the wildfire destroyed more than 1000 homes and killed 8 people however officials say firefighters will continue to patrol the area for several days and crews are still working on repairing broken fences and other damage caused by firefighters the blaze charred nearly 360 square miles in and around reading making it the 7th largest in state history partly cloudy today in the San Francisco Bay Area highs in the seventy's the night in the fifty's in the central San Joaquin Valley partly cloudy today highs around 90 Imax Primeau news we're turns at $730.00 on k p f a. Good morning at 7 o 8 and you're listening to up front I'm Janine etter. Protest I began in Nicaragua in April of this year over the government's lack of response to the forest fire at the Indio my natural reserve have escalated into a massive uprising to end impunity human rights violations and general corruption under President Daniel Ortega according to protesters next week the caravan for solidarity with the garage comes to the Bay Area we speak with protester who Leo Martinez member of articulacy on the group organizing the caravan about what's happening on the ground in Nicaragua the caravan and its demands So Julio Martinez thank you for speaking with me today. So what's happening in Nicaragua right now. At this very moment. As you know were at about $120.00 days after the protests initially started the 1st 3 months of the protests included. Very heavy attacks from the government to the protesters that were heavily armed and which resulted many deaths and at this moment right now the repression is focused more through the wide variety of institutions which include the judicial system. A lot of people are being tried for terrorism for having supported the roadblocks and for having marched against the government against the government. Teachers are being fired for having even when there is a suspicion that they were part of the protests in any way doctors are being fired 200 have been fired up enough from the from the health system. And when it's not. And there is harassment say harassment in many ways whether it's to social media or the phone calls I mean anyone that has been linked to the protests of the now that has any kind of leadership at the local level is being targeted and is being repressed constantly and what led up to the protests. Wider array of things kind of the things that started about 10 days before was that for instance in an able 11 there was a protest against a the government's response to a forest fire and one of the Nathan main reserves called the new mice the soil was mainly environmental environmentalists many students who were protesting and they were repressed by the police they were pushed back they were they were very violently kind of repressed during their March. Several days later the there was a Social Security reform that was announced in a kind of surprise and it said that people who would receive people would normally receive so scary receive 5 percent less and anyone that contributes whether it's individuals or the private sector would have to pay more that was received by much I would say from specially the elderly who marched the next day with many people with the students primarily in March during the day. And in those markets especially in Leone and when I was. Those were brutally repressed as well to the point that about 40 of these paramilitaries that's when we started seeing them most recently. At that point beat up the protesters who were only starting to organize around the protests for the Social Security reforms. Those videos that were taken from every angle in broad daylight of them being beaten up became viral and made it so that many hundreds more took the streets on a full line and I was unable 18th unable 90 of many hundreds more to the streets when those people took the street. The level of violence against them was something that no one expected the police and other groups. Linked to the police were working together to repress those those protests and and started shooting at the protesters there were 3 dead the 1st day. That and so and so wasn't just the deaths but the level of kind of brutal repression physically even with rubber bullets were a lot of kids you know university students 18 years old lost their eyes and everyone could see how these guys were shooting at at the crowds that outraged the entire population and by April 20th that crowd multiplied even more mainly young people. But just in general nickel Nicaragua's society who saw young people being shot at and wanted to help any way they could whether was taking them food or water or transportation but just doing or just joining them there was just an overwhelming sense of solidarity with these people that we were seeing on social media the attack on social media on April 20th they were about 20 dead and by that point it was a much more serious crisis by that point people were asking for it for there to be ouster of the head of the police of some sort of justice throughout the state to to make up for these deaths and some people already calling for to get to resign for that many people having died this continue and the government didn't back down at all and actually continued to attack. On the one side they were they also started at the same time this campaign of defaming the the protesters saying that these were hooligans and. Who just wanted to steal and of the police are trying to keep law and order but since everyone knew somebody that was involved in one way or another and was seeing was seeing. Footage from every angle from these friends anybody that was there was filming on Facebook live nobody was buying it. The government continued the attack the students the students tried to kind of set up at one of the universities they were they were kicked out then they went to the cathedral and they were allowed in the cathedral and they went to a different versity and. And Captain university so that was the kind of your immediate start of these protests but this is just an accumulation of many years of repression from the Nicaraguan government and the people have just decided they're completely fed up and on that 1st day when you were saying that 3 people were killed one of them was a police officer and so that helped with the narrative that the police were being targeted by the protesters what's your response to that right that is for sharing all the details about that police officer by. The thing is that during that entire day everyone was glued to to our social media to the new news we were all glued to seeing how the police was attacking the protesters there was no footage from anywhere of of a group of armed protesters shooting at the police so clearly something happened there that should have happened but overwhelmingly the activity going on that day was police shooting at the students and that's what made people go out the next day in much larger numbers so absolutely that definition of never happened and I don't know exactly what the circumstances around that were but that's not that's not. That was not of the reason why the police should continue shooting at the students and it was different of the reasons of the Nicaraguan population went out and there was never been a call from any of these groups to form any kind of armed resistance against the government if you can see any of the communications from any of these groups always focusing on nonviolence and you can see that from all the marches the these these record breaking marches that we've had since April 500000 being the largest on Mother's Day in which the protestors were shot up with snipers and so I understand that you know maybe people from the government going back to what happened on the 1st day and talk about that one person dead but the numbers or the evidence don't show that this was in any way a some sort of armed insurrection from the police. At all that's why one of the 1st things I was called on was for there to be international observations throughout which they finally agreed on because they saw that the opposition would not accept dialogue without there being international human rights groups present who could who could go to the site interviewing everybody around and find out what was actually happening Fortunately that was the only thing that the government actually has given up in terms of their demands they did allow for the in American Commission on Human Rights to come in for an international for Human Rights Watch for the High Commissioner for Human Rights all of them come have come in and have all seen the exact same thing so despite the Nicaraguan government focused on trying to say that this is some sort of armed insurrection in some sort of coup . Any neutral party inside of the country doesn't see that and how many civilian deaths have happened since the protests started over 300. The lowest number is 317 which is the immigration here right the highest numbers 448 which is from one of the local human rights groups which is by the way now in exile because of the amount of directing received so from the start of the protest till now have they continued with the same intensity that they started with. The protests have continued and not stopped in the least there's a lot of people who are extremely afraid but the protests have never stopped one thing that's kind of one of the many things that all of the groups because there are many groups protesting that all agree on is the need to stay on the streets until that there is an end to the repression and some sort of justice for what's happening for what's happening to now so the protests have been stopped and the government's reaction to the protest has not either it has just changed when there were these massive March towards the beginning they were shooting at them when there were roadblocks from the farmers movement wants to support the students there were 7 of about 150 points. The the government set up these these huge group of paramilitaries to destroy all of those roadblocks who would work jointly with the police and now that the roadblocks are gone and and so many people have died or been or been injured the the main focus is to. Is to put people in jail. So there are about 200 people in jail right now and that many of them are being tried for terrorism today and it's harassment and it's making sure that you don't have any a livelihood by kicking out anybody who. Who may have been for the protest so that's much of the reaction but the protests have never ended because you know idea over the weekend protests were set up in Granada in Leone and in several other cities asking for the release of the political prisoners in response the government started arresting arbitrarily people all over the place one of the cases was of Closest what 20 students that were arrested as the were on the way to a protest they were arrested over to early and after the after there was national international outcry they were released like 8 hours later but a different group was arrested in their own part of that same student movement and they have not been released yet and they are being accused of terrorism as well. And that's the mechanism that they're using to shut the opposite opposition up eventually it's make everyone fearful enough that they won't go to the streets anymore but that hasn't worked. And can you give us a little bit of history about the Nicaraguan revolution and who the Sandinistas and the Contras were. Sure thing. So between 137-1989 there was a so most of the papers there was brutal dictatorship started by such a small sign then one of the sons and then a 2nd one of the sons of those also named to the families the. Liberation Front started in the early sixty's a group of students that were organizing against the tyranny of the state they lasted. Took about 17 years to organize. And allow for the state to tell you to get worse and then kind of for there to be a gain real popular support to the point that by 178 there were insurrection there were armed insurrection in many cities. And I can 79 the inspections continue and finally in July of 179 the Sundanese revolution one. Hit one with a broad coalition of of Clearly the the revolutionary fighters but also support from people from from the middle say the many Christian groups that were part of this some from the private sector there was a general consensus that the dictator had to go. After 79 especially several years let's say that was about one year of really solid peace and then shortly after the the Reagan administration was they came into power saw them as a real threat in the region and started financing the Contras which was a group of former started by former National Guard and then and then kind of grouping many other kind of people that were. Not happy with with some of these being power and essentially this was part of this entire Iran Contra deal where the Reagan assertion. Found funs through. This deal that they had selling weapons in Iran and then financing the conference and that lasted pretty much and so now. 9 maybe even 90 with the elections. In which the. In which the party lost to a coalition to an opposition coalition the something the party considered is considered a progressive left wing It was seen by many an international left as a real kind of example well President your current President Daniel Ortega is or was a former Sandinista sure so we're taking Ortega was one of many kind of leaders within the revolution there was a there was a special group of 9 commandant is from 3 different groups so he was one of 9 and when it was time to think about who would be and when they would start in $179.00. They came to kind of a consensus on who would represent them. So between kind of the intellectual funnies the leaders on one side and then the other and the main military leaders who are much more han Hendry's they kind of decided to go not for any of them but go for Danielle whom they thought was somebody that could get along with all groups and represent them so he was so he was part of the whole into the lasted for several years he was then elected president in 1904. So. So yes when he was president during that time. And. And then his presidency started again in 2006 By the time it started in 2006 most of the old Sonny told God it already left him they left him for many reasons mainly his are critics style within the party the vision agree with later because of a pact that he signed with the extreme right wing including I know what a man who is often considered one of the most corrupt presidents in Latin America history by transparent Transparency International He signed a pact where they essentially cornered the Negro in politics made it so that many other parties couldn't run and started dividing up the towers between the 2 of them and so when that happened many of the last Sunday stuff from the 1000 acres are was still with them abandoned him. And so that didn't represent him any more so by trying to guess 2006. His support with and left he had it was it was kind of very small out of the people that were there during the 1997 days so talk about the caravan for solidarity with Nicaragua the the group that I'm part of which is the platform for social movements and civil side of information which is one of the main kind of umbrella groups in the grog we. Have been organizing since we started different caravans they started in Europe. About 3 months ago started in . Later in South America they're in Uruguay right now and will be going elsewhere and the idea is that Nicaraguan activists can speak directly to the population to speak directly to the to the population about the human rights abuses and also speak to anyone that's been receiving these messages from the government. Because we know that a lot of reasonable people a lot of good people especially people that supported the Nicaraguan struggle when we needed them most in the 170 s. And eighty's. Are have been average see these messages from the government about this being some sort of CIA sponsored coup and so there's plenty of empathy with those people but I do think we need to talk because there is no way that they can continue to believe this given the overwhelming amount of evidence so we want to talk to them we want to have you know very basic. Very basic kind of conversations about this and and and really be able to come to agreements about how they can be supportive and how to be supportive of human rights in general and human rights in the gravel and a transition to a fair a fair democracy in the drug war. So this will be starting in the u.s. Next week in the Bay Area being organized by a group of a group called the Bay Area out a couple cows which is people that are expressing solidarity with Nicaragua many people who were specified area in the Seventies and Eighties but also many Nicaraguans that are working from the outside given that the Nicaraguan diaspora has been key to placing the pressure from every corner that they can so so those are the people that have been organizing this and will receive a group of activists next week and one of them are happening in the Bay Area specifically. There will be a there will be activities at. U.c. Berkeley on. September 5th. And also at San Francisco State University on September 6th those are the main ones and then several other events going on at night and he wanted interested in the situation to grovel and helping out is welcome to come even if they currently don't agree with what's going on they could be be supportive and one of the requests that the caravan is making. One is that the international community pay attention that they do the paid attention to what's going on across one of the main things that the growing government is trying to convince people from the outside is that everything was over it was a right wing coup but now it's over so everything can go back to normal make the tourist come back and all this we're told and don't allow this to happen in pushes and allow. You know focus on your groups your local groups and focus as much as possible on supporting the cause that happening whether it's you know ask if your local church has a link to the local churches in a grovel that have been. Essential for private priding sanctuary and help those people that have been. Have been have been persecuted by the government. You know ask your her your representatives in your local and state governments to to. Ask our level people to put pressure through any international body such as the way asked in the u.n. . And just as you know just asking you to pay attention of and help in any which way that you can and what stance as the u.s. Taken on this conflict. At different levels there have been different aspects such as. Such as in the Senate there was a bipartisan bill to. To sort of say individual I think sions against people responsible for human rights abuses and for corruption. And so they will be pushing that to the day they will be presented to the Senate. And would have a support of Patrick Leahy and Tim Kaine and a few and other prominent Democrats. As well as some Republicans. They see their stance at the way as has been firmly against the Nicaraguan government along with almost all of the Latin American countries putting pressure asking the government to cease the repression and to allow for the human rights groups in the country to do their work so they've been calling that consistently. And so. And so in terms of the executive. They've also supported kind of a the. Motions within though yes on the u.n. To put pressure on the Nicaraguan government. So who will Martinez thank you so much for speaking with me today thank you so much thank you. That was organizer Julio Martinez member of the platform for social movements and civil society called articulate. The group organizing the caravan for solidarity with the which comes to the Bay Area next week and up next we speak were purchased to Evans author of the verbally abusive relationship and controlling people about verbal abuse and its impacts That's all next after the news Imax Purnell with these headlines and Senator John McCain will lie in state today at the u.s. Capitol in Washington d.c. For a public visitation and ceremony he died Saturday of brain cancer at $81.00 tomorrow McCain's procession pauses by the Vietnam Memorial and heads for the Washington National Cathedral for a formal funeral service and McCain's request to former presidents and rivals Democrat Barack Obama and Republican George w. Bush are expected to speak to people close to the White House and McCain's families said President Trump was mocked McCain for getting captured during the Vietnam War has been asked to stay away from all of vents and the funeral of soul music legend Aretha Franklin will be held today in Detroit it boasts a star studded lineup of speakers and entertainers among those offering words will be former President Bill Clinton the Reverend Jesse Jackson and long time friend Smokey Robinson singers Stevie Wonder area on a growing day and Faith Hill are among those who will perform at the ceremony a Los Angeles man is free on bond after being charged with making a series of phone calls threatening to kill journalists at The Boston Globe for what he allegedly called treasonous attacks on President Trump k.-p. Of K.'s Laura Cantore has more globe led an effort for news media to use their opinion pages in support of the 1st Amendment and the paper urged a rejection of the Trump administration and tight news media rhetoric. 60 year old Robert Cheney allegedly echoed President Trump's words calling news workers the enemy of the people in over a dozen threatening phone calls to the globe this month he also allegedly told employees of the globe that he'd shoot them in the head he's expected to be transferred to Massachusetts for an arraignment in federal court in Boston in Los Angeles I'm Laura canter Pacifica Radio k p f k New Mexico authorities said today that a semi truck collided head on with a passenger bus along Highway 40 near the Arizona border killing at least 7 people and injuring many others authorities a blown tire on the truck may be to blame New Mexico state police spokesman Ray Wilson told c.b.s. The semi was headed east on the freeway Thursday afternoon when one of its tires blew sending the rig across the median and into oncoming traffic or slammed into the Greyhound bus headed from Phoenix from Albuquerque. The National Transportation Safety Board and the New Mexico State Police will be investigating. State fire officials said Thursday that the massive car fire is fully contained a wildfire destroyed more than $1000.00 homes and claimed 8 lives however officials say firefighters will continue to patrol the area for several days and crews are still working on repairing broken fences and other damage caused by firefighters the blaze charred 360 square miles in and around reading making at the 7th largest and California history what we cloudy today in the San Francisco Bay area in the seventy's Los tonight in the fifty's in the central San Joaquin Valley partly cloudy today with highs around 90 Imax Pringle News returns at 8 on Cape p.f.a. . Good morning at 734 and you're listening to up front. With the growing awareness of trolling in cyberspace and the daily litany of insults being hurled at opponents or critics of the Trump administration we turn our attention to the subject of verbal abuse what it is and its impacts on the human psyche speaking with Patricia Evans author of the verbal abuse a relationship and controlling people. So Patricia Evans thank you so much for speaking with me today thank you real pleasure to be here to talk with you about all this stuff. So what is the definition of verbal abuse. Verbal abuse. I would say is the are the words and phrases that you find another person or other people or you and it's basically a lot I told to you or to others about you verbal abuse is not you know can no one can tell you what you think like you think you're so smart you know you might hear that in a class or someone might say oh you just want to argue without ever asking you what you want so it's it's a lie told to you without you. And what is the impact of a verbal abuse Yeah well actually the impact is really much more than one would really realize if they hear this kind of thing they begin to feel confused they begin to sometimes doubt themselves some people will think maybe I am too sensitive maybe I sound critical or something they're accused of it's like a brainwashing if you hear it a lot a long time if it's in a relationship and you're always being frequently told you know you just want to are you trying to start a fight you know you blow everything out of proportion you don't even know what you're talking about that never happened that kind of talk you know it can get to be real confusing if you're basing this relationship on the idea that this person is conscious and cares about you and loves you or cares about you and is actually conscious and actually speaking what they believe to be the truth and it's. So if it's difficult it's it precedes all domestic violence you just don't have someone come up and hit you if they've never defined you in any way you know told you you know years you're too sensitive or you're stupid or you're just too fat or you don't know how to get no telling what you might hear in an abusive relationship would you say the verbal abuse or is mentally ill suffering from mental illness Well you know I can't say for sure you can call it a mental illness. Because it's like a mental illness if you wanted to call a disorder say a real real severe narcissistic disorder mental illness than one might say so often it's just a. It's like being semi conscious it's like not having developed emotional intelligence that you have and not being able to look within because maybe was raised in a very difficult childhood where he never knew when somebody be yelling at him so he's sure not going to be still and look within and get in touch with himself and his intuition so a couple of his functions can be disabled and if he wasn't nurtured then he doesn't have the quality of nurturance and receptivity because how can he be receptive when you never know you're going to be in trouble for no reason at all from say an alcoholic father Ok just to make a scenario so could you say he's mentally ill or he's just lacking awareness or he semiconscious whatever you want to call it in that case he can be abusive because all of a sudden his partner doesn't want what he wants or think what he thinks because there's no room in her psyche for his projection she shows up as a totally separate unique person so her individuality triggers him. Verbal abuse and here's something I wrote about 10 years ago I never published it and. Here's a little little paragraph to show you what it's like like a viral invasion covert verbal abuse insidiously infiltrates the minds of millions and like a heat seeking missile overt verbal abuse and airing the assaults its target it can hide out in relationships families schools cultures and cyberspace it can bring tyrants to her and destroy relationships. That's it and I think that understanding. What verbal abuse is that we can't define another human being we don't know what they are think feel a need want and so forth I don't honestly ask. And if we don't ask them they can say oh they want to learn good jobs or whatever they want to do this and that and so it's just amazing that there are people in the world who do try to control other people it's a very controlling behavior and it's good that you mention control because you have another book called controlling people which basically is saying that verbal abuse in its intention consciously or unconsciously is to control another person Exactly and it definitely is. You know just somebody here and you just want to argue you're too sensitive Just start of your blood out of proportion it's all silent this other person to take away her ability to even talk or his ability to talk is to silence after control you know this here we are. Our whole country revolves around our values of freedom of speech and yet a controller will not think of himself as controlling and he will try to take away a person's freedom of speech and control their right. To explain things to talk to savage Binion's to suggest things to ask questions all of those things can be assaulted by a controller so verbal abuse is controlling definitely. And the person is pretty much trying to do this to get a sense of security where they feel they've been dislodged Ajax didn't just watch tell you a really extreme type of situation because it involves physical glad. But a man called me out of the blue and he said hi are you the author in controlling people and I said yeah and he said oh this helped me so much now I know why I threw my wife to the ground. Ok and you tell me what happened he said well I got home from work early and learn to cook I was cooking up a storm and all the burners going then my wife walked in she said and I said and then she goes down in the mail and I went in a rage and threw to the floor now I know the whole huge part of him was obviously projected into her and he knew she was just going to walk over and say can I help you with a good game and have this nice cut together instead she's standing there looking down at the mail and it's like half of him was gone he felt split in half almost killed so he threw it at the ground and of course he got kicked out and then he looked for what was wrong with him and the whole thing is people who do this don't know why they get enraged they don't know what's wrong with them they don't know anything much because so many times we have in the whole field of psychology which was founded following like a lot of medical understanding of things there is cause and effect if you twist your arm your elbow might hurt right so it would be like well if he's angry at you then what did you do it's $5050.00 there's a cause and effect but you didn't do anything and so for a long time people have been really confused when they try to understand what's happening because they've been told that they're part of it but actually in a way they're not they're just you know object has been assaulted same thing with hate groups and so forth in. The World Today they are looking for someone to blame for whatever's not working in their life and they always look for someone who's different you can stand out and there's another important thing about this and that is that people who cannot connect to other people through empathy that's the normal way we can it was sort of an understanding on the other person you know empathy a feeling of just recognizing the other person as another human being here on planet Earth and they don't connect with empathy to people so they connect with a partner or others in their realm through a projection so if they connect to their partner through a projection and they're still feeling not really connected to other people they might want to connect by bonding with other people against someone that can be a primary motive for bonding together to form these hate groups somebody says well I could hate those people too I'll join that group and then they feel that they're connected somehow even though they're connected through paid instead of love you know through just destruction instead of love It doesn't matter we have a need to feel we're part of the people around us you know we're part of the world we're part of humanity but if they don't they can very easily join groups to feel connected to bond against someone and against someone and that's how they target people it's just like a lack of consciousness so verbal abuse attempts to cast a spell over consciousness people just don't have an awareness and verbal abuse avidly pursues the destruction of consciousness because it's always told to you or about you it's out of the standard. If you want this and you think this or those people think they have to have those people want to do this to you or you're doing that you know if it's all a lie and people tell somebody what they want like you want to argue they don't feel crazy if they think about it and they find out you know I can't know what she wants unless I ask for so I've told people who get told you want are you you don't care I said you can say you aren't me and you're see you don't know what I want or how I feel or whatever was just. When you think of it people who consider themselves rational really rational people they consider themselves logical and rational will say there's 400 samples in the appendix of another book you know they can he change books and they're all irrational because they're all telling somebody what they want think feel need no don't know should do as if they were that other person. And there was another person that I had like what is the person response what should the person respond when being verbally attacked just say you're not me and you're not God You know what I want you know what I think and walk away and if you're being interrogated because that can happen you know it's a terrible one question after the other you're still trying to answer the 1st one like where were you when you go there what are you doing when you're back and you're still trying to say I went to the store and I went to that store to answer the 1st hearing the next hearing the next or it could be Who were you talking to was it a guy or something you know but whatever when you're facing a moment when you realize you're still trying to answer this question and keep track of the next one just say is. Please write down your questions and I'll get back to you later I gotta go and walk out whatever you're doing just don't try to answer the chair again because it's horrible and you don't have to nobody has the right to interrogate you. Part of my understanding is that like with interrogation and all of the ways in which you are saying that people verbal abuse others is that it's really to create a sense of psychological dominance is that your sense that it's that it's a way of establishing like a false sense of superiority I believe that that fits into the motivations that. Are being dominant in control because you know they may have an underlying fear of not being in charge or not being in control or not being important and for there are a lot of factors that can motivate a person to want to dominate another person and to have control to be more important to you know just be the one in what many people think of violence usually they think of. Does it go violence and if they were to think of verbal abuse it seems like it would be minimized as less impactful than than physical violence do you consider verbal abuse to be more or less or equal to says ical violence I'd say more I've heard from so many women like a woman called me she was on her cell phone she was getting driven home from the hospital she said I'm just calling you if I was in the hospital my job was broken in a physical violent thing in my relationship and I want you to know the verbal abuse was worse. And I said I know it is yeah it is many many people tell me that and she went on to say you can heal from a bruise but you can't heal from those things that get planted in your mind and she also had an abusive mother so she you know definitely needs a lot of trauma therapy which I recommended to her to get trauma therapy and abusers need their own kind of trauma therapy to to get into touch with when they lost themselves in childhood it's really. A huge thing in in the world today is this control dominance verbal abuse it's a huge thing and now it's gotten into. The you know cyber space we might say in social media and people will make comments and they have lines so. You know we've got to be very aware of what's real and what's not what's true and what's not. You say that this person is disconnected from themselves is partly why they're acting yeah yeah. Yeah there is a real disconnect from the true self Yeah and they don't feel crazy to or irrational. You know it's insane it's insane verbal abuse is not only an online tool to you about you it's. You know kind of insane to say these things you know can't tell to people what they think and want to steal there's just no way you can do that because you don't know you have an affair you know. So it's a form of playing God Yeah it's a form of playing the verbal abuse is not about is not about a conflict it's about control that's one of my bottom lines and it precedes domestic violence it's the unseen face of to Mr. And what about bystanders because oftentimes if there was someone being assaulted in front of you if there was a man. Attempting to assault a woman you might step in or try to help but when it comes to verbal abuse people may not. I think that's what you feel or or know what to do what would you were bystanders who are witnessing will be is this is something this is the greatest question you just asked you know it's so important because if a woman goes through a part of her life nobody usually sees that she doesn't do this to her when the neighbors are over but and then people see this somewhere and don't act don't say anything then it's like if I could she feels crazy or nobody sees it everybody thinks she's got with most wonderful boyfriend or whatever on earth and all that so when no one sees it now a woman told me that she'd go along just being candid on everything and certain you know you're too sensitive and certain verbally abusive comments so. She but nobody had ever seen it she didn't really she just had trouble getting a grip on what is going on here and then she was at a restaurant and some gentleman with the next table a lot of little tables around and and he and her her husband it was she said he started yelling at her sort of like you know one of these kind of prove you right arguments you know prove you wrong and this is what I'm doing this is what you know just sort of yelling raising his voice and the gentleman at the next table turned towards her she said they said you don't have to go home with him in other words this guy is bad news and that was the 1st time in her life anybody ever notice the way he was and it's course she went home because she was married and they lived together but she knew what was going on and so I think that that's a life saving kind of thing you can do is you can say something like. As we always talk to you that way or was he talking to me What are you talking or like that for some kind of a common. It is so important because it's like she's living in this world with e.t. Used to terrestrial and nobody in the world sees it so she begins to think she's crazy but then suddenly somebody sees it and it's such a validation during life that it's it's wonderfully valuable pre-buy standards to think that you know something that will make him realize that he is really really over the line you know really gone too far we now have an administration where we are getting this all of the time the president tweets lies about people and constantly and is overt in terms of defining other people and I think the way that he seems to question himself from reality for lack of a better word is kind of just to stay tuned to Fox News and to call anyone else who's trying to call him out on the on fact checking or that this is a lie to exact to define them so now they're fake news and they're you know what is going on beneath the surface of the attacks that we see from the president of the United States and it's reflected it's bordering sociopathic behavior I think it's definitely it's definitely. You know I think he captured the minds of people who were struggling maybe economically or or whatever after he was going to make everything wonderful and great for them and and so everybody believed that believed him he's leaving him sort of like a cult leader you know they take over their minds and that's what he's done and you have some examples of the mind or the cult of personality maybe also in your book controlling people can talk about that yeah. Yeah a cult is basically a person. Can find it very comfortable to let someone make some decisions for them you know especially if they admire them in their older more mature more educated or anything that they can trust and and all that they can get hooked into. Following this person and believing in them and their cult they will a cult leader will take away all their privacy will fight check on every little thing they are doing and just kind of take control and isolate them also from the outside world and people who just. Watch one news channel like Fox and just listen to their president can be brainwashed and completely out of touch with reality just completely out of touch with what's really going on so it's very . It's kind of dangerous you know that's why I was saying in that little thing I read it in high verbal abuse can hide out in relationships family schools cultures and cyberspace it can bring tyrants to power and just joy relationships. Patricia Evans thank you so much for speaking with me today. Thank you very much as pleasure to talk with you and really glad I had an opportunity to present this thank you so much. That was purchased the Evans author of the verbal abusive relationship and controlling people talking about what verbal abuse is its impacts and what could be done to resist and combat it. And coming up on Saturday September 22nd the new Parkway theatre continues its community partnership with k. P.f.a. With the classic yet timely movie that predicted reality t.v. In America with the screening of network so please come out to support k p f A's movie matinee on Saturday September 22nd at 3 pm for ticket information visit the new Parkway dot com. That does it for today's show up front cares weekday mornings at 7 am we post information about our topics and our guests on line a k p f a dot org Or you can also dig through our archives subscribe to the shows a podcast and connect to us and social media if you'd like to give us feedback about something you heard or suggest something for us to cover send an e-mail to upfront at k p f a dot org a big thanks to everyone who makes the show happen producers Corinne Smith with the help of mirror noble see engineers Kirsten Thomas in turn is Justin gold hosts are Brian over stickered and Tony and you hoss Gina Madrid and meet Janine at are. Also Michelle's rich and Eileen now from Derry a big shout out to the brothers and sisters on the other side of the walls were listening to our program Stay tuned for rising up with Sonali Eddie. Again the prophet Chris is coming to Berkeley this time with America the farewell tour a blistering new book that should disturb anger and shame many of us he portrays a land of rampant drug addiction moral collapse. In which the super rich exploit the poor and the vulnerable a corporate land whose rulers ignored global warming will be hosted by Norman Solomon co-founder of Roots Action dot org September 12th 7 30 pm at the 1st Congregational Church 2345. Is wheelchair accessible tickets available at brown paper tickets dot com as well as our wonderful supportive bookstores be there September 12th as hedges and Solomon discuss the cultural moral and spiritual resistance we must undertake. 50 in Berkeley 88 point one in Fresno and on line.