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In Fresno and online to keep if a dot o.-r. GZ 5 pm of next is flashpoints Stay tuned. Today on Flashpoints we feature a discussion with the jumbo Baracoa about American exceptionalism and the failure of the left to challenge us foreign policy and we're joined by Uncle Bob You see this Johnson for an update on the love not blood campaign on behalf of the victims and survivors of police violence next activists journalists kill you Nasha joins us to honor the memory of George Jackson was assassinated at San Quentin Prison 46 years ago today finally poet essay as a novelist you smile read pays tribute to the legacy of Dick Gregory who passed away this weekend at the age of 84 I'm Kevin Pina filling in for Denis Bernstein all the straight ahead on Flashpoints Stay tuned. And you're listening to Flashpoints on Pacifica Radio Well I always like to go to folks whose opinions I respect to talk about what's going on in the world and certainly we have a lot to talk about everything from what went down in Charlottesville to the moves to try to intervene in Venezuela we're seeing the ramping up of yet another regime change project and it's not being supported just by the right and by the Trump administration we're also seeing some of the same folks who call themselves progressive who supported that awful awful events that happened in Libya we know how that turned out well to join us now to talk about that in more is a General Barak is a political analyst but also you might remember he ran for vice president. For the Green Party during the last election cycle Jemma Barack Obama back to flashpoints obstacle radio sir I don't really yet but if you if you're going to take it well you know I want to start with the big question which is Connect the dots for us between this issue of white supremacy which is I guess getting some people are discovering it I guess but 1st. I'm sure you're not and I'm sure many others aren't as well but some people acting like they just discovered that this white supremacy in the United States but what's the connection between that and u.s. Foreign policy is there a connection between that and what some folks are into as big I imperialism. I mean you know it is it's really the same I mean if you you it we remind ourselves that. Very establishment of the United States of America was a white supremacist. It was an epic of that. Violence and rage. And we understand at the evolution of that history. Including once. Colonists shot and made it their way across the territory we know now after United States of America colonizing they were instilling Indigenous land once they. Started to expand beyond the continental territory in a changing 9896 if United gate. We know that basically you bet travel white supremacy and expansionist mentality and maturity or maybe continue. Up until today so you know there's a structural element of white supremacy that we don't always talk about we tend to tend to get reduced to issues of consciousness. Until people have a real confusion around issues equation racism and what many of us refer to as white. Idiology and the structure white supremacy so Imperial. Structure of white supremacy. Supremacy European white supremacy. Back to the center of analysis center about their lives then we will find ourselves confused and actually. History and it's right. Now still with us imperialism and it's like white supremacy. And you listen to Flashpoints on Pacifica Radio That's the voice of my guess a general Baracoa Jumma Brock well known political analyst commentator former vice presidential candidate this last election cycle with the Green Party he ran with Jill Stein and John there are other folks I think who are picking up and making that connection I heard that just in Baltimore yesterday they attacked with sledgehammers a statue of Christopher Columbus very famous statue there and this comes on the heels of the city of Baltimore making moves to take down all of the Confederate monuments in that town let's talk a little bit about these symbols. You know there are folks who are also saying well how far is this going to go you know we got statements that Abraham Lincoln didn't believe that black people were equal intellectually to white people take his statues down you know great figure us history you know the great liberate or mancipation proclamation How far is this going to go George Washington Thomas Jefferson and I hear those voices on the other side making the point that this is going too far that these are still icons that need to be respected as the founders as the fabric of u.s. Culture and history where you know. This is. The question that. In many levels race or gravity how far. This might go was an interesting comment and one of them if I was true he said you know if you are attacking the Confederacy and confederate. Symbols wind that extend that to Thomas Jefferson and George Washington pointed out correctly that these also were slave owners. And that in fact is really the only logical and at m.r.o. a Route that has to has to be a pursuit if you're going to the target is supposed to be the stumbles the life of her mythic or that. Make up and reflect the core of the u.s. Experience and then you have to address. But you know I don't really think. For that because that's a little bit too difficult it challenges the very notion. Of the identity of of what it is to be so-called American or us citizens and liberals in the tickler of NAFTA pay a $2.00 to embrace that kind of comprehensive we rejection of us history and the colonial settler narrative they're all busy watching reruns of The West Wing now. Yeah I mean it's an interesting conversation you know and it's interesting that that is getting kind of an eye hand for from people but it's a necessary conversation but at the same time the company could be distracting in the sense that if the limit if we keep the limitation we keep the focus just on the Confederacy. Then we end up playing right into the talking point of above Little doesn't. So you know this conversation of good why it needs to continue but you know we don't want to get distracted. Compensation though it be addressed to the simple white supremacy in fact addressed to white supremacy no doubt the focus on the structure of the white supremacist Also we've got to go past 12 instructors of. Attention I focused on because tradition of Neil little bit and a very. Mission reality of this nation state that talked about transforming the society completely We're not talking about dismantling this current state. Basically we have kind of so and politics I think just kind of happening a little bit and that's a voice of my guess a general Baracoa We're discussing the connection between white supremacy and u.s. Foreign policy historically in this country as well as other things it's a huge topic but let's get back to these folks who supported the u.s. Intervention in Libya and who are now supporting u.s. Intervention and then this way La I use the term liberal to describe them because it's that combination of the sort of exceptionalism that somehow in my mind there's a connection between American exceptionalism and this support for us intervention somehow being that we're in a better position to judge what's right and what's wrong what's your feeling about that but you're absolutely right and it is a very dangerous position and it is just like a kind of mentality better than mentality to believe that European Euro Americans have a God given right to determine things like who should be the leader of a nation mentality that justifies intervention. Even if that intervention international law and international mobility they believe they have the right as privilege this responsibility to and engage in this kind of behavior. And what was troubling to that point that those kind of attempted actions and I kind of perspective what I've been challenged from the left but today you find that people would define until a lot of to brace that kind of behavior and that kind of pushback that it well justified this notion. That you have some kind of responsibility to protect of the people one of the slickest propaganda of division has developed over the last 20 years is really a troubling and backward there from the point of view of the state you should take weapon and deploy well and it does to go to the heart of the role of the Democratic Party in some ways I mean the symbolism of the of this country's 1st black president covered a lot of you know a lot of things that were going on that weren't right like assassination by drones torture that was going on what's your view of that symbolism because of a lot of this how is it as I think you rightly point out is about propaganda iconography and symbols and the Democratic Party has played a role as a symbol as you said sort of delivering the left to an accommodation with those policies you know Barack Obama was really one of the most effective weapons ever deployed against progress and and against African-Americans particularly in the sense of African-Americans we have always and suspicious of u.s. Publication critical u.s. Foreign policy Well we've been the most consistently anti war and entering terrible with the deployment of the article by Moby you know a shift and you added to that to the ship of African-Americans we have shifted to the right. These last 8 years in fact given cover to the right wing trajectory of us on a ticket and Barack Obama gave his you know. Black face. To face on the milk of issues and perilously which is why I can't imagine you did not stop the wars in fact and the wars into places like Libya and Syria expanded drone warfare be introduced that repression of legislation from the anti a 2012 to expanding surveillance that was not in the real. Repressive policy after another well if no opposition because of fringe Democrat Party and so-called liberal credentials so. Even though it's been difficult to Donald Trump you know and shown wait at least people want to be in your Jewish state again it's a little more than a stamping it's more honest what you I mean and so the politics right now becoming more honest but it is interesting to people who are tempted to try to pretend like it's right up the the right we're going to need the drama and shovels grow to something new but they've also tried to point out the administration is playing footsies what's right for quite some time including when they recruited train and finance. The right wing and the Ukraine to carry out u.s. Foreign policy an issue to be a. Country and including you know the. Me right it element economic world well let me let me just let me just give this a little bit of a drama because I just want to I just want to make this clear that your point is that there are right wing nationalists white wing nationalist white men in the Ukraine that when u.s. Foreign policy can work with them it will if it's certain it serves. Their purpose is so it's not really a question of the us having this pure line about racism and about neo nazis and about white nationalism because it will accommodate it and it will work with those forces when it serves them. And now only one of the worst white nationalists and Europe it will work with right is elements of the Islamic faith of the whole jihad right wing Jihad as well that. Right wing obvious idiology the Us have not had any real concern with working with all the elements elements what I do they control and advancing their particular interests. To write is something that just may have propaganda did you know. We talked about the fact that the f.b.i. And Homeland Security had done a 5 back in 2000 not. Biggest threat to domestic security with a new way of. National but I learned quite nationalistic to take what the so-called lone wolf but yet the ministration. Report under pressure from the right wing and the Republican right it was a pool report line and did not disseminate it so it's clear that you know we've had an issue for quite sometime but it's Bender's not just collaboration and medication but. When it comes through the right wing and this country and if you're just joining us that's the voice of my guest a jumble Baraka former vice presidential candidate on the Green Party take it but you got to get online you got to see some of the stuff that John has been writing recently about u.s. Foreign policy and about Charlottesville what occurred there and Charlottesville Virginia and making the connection just amazing stuff you've been publishing I want to also address your views about this clamor now to support. Democracy in Venezuela against the evil dictator much Doro What's your view of that . Division from on the left and you way I'm going to be shameful it is a game we have situation where a nation if attempting to protect the integrity of its project its revolutionary project despite issues and even contradictions do that then is when people have the right to determine their own future right that's a question of their right and what and when they find themselves in a crowd of us imperialism duty and responsibility and. We'll radicals and Leftist the revolutionaries to support that project we find opposite today ever and I don't I don't really understand how people can look to sell to the American public photograph of and find a slave on the same side would you have think that all of them I mean if the government if. They reach adoption or right people who suffer the most out people who are working class people in that country how do you square that and that's a that's the reality is that whatever this u.s. Backed opposition in Venezuela is screaming about repression it is nothing compared to the human rights disaster been a swale will become if they come to power I've seen that Haiti I've seen that 1st in and other places Honduras you know in Libya there's no question that if those folks come to power it will be a bloodbath right now we are going to. Do In the course of the full quote this with . Literally many people to their industry. Right when they get us support it would not find in the same kind of critical response from liberals and left of us to dig up at the Obama government and not a chunk of it as sure as you support it why did element and if it was well. It makes no sense it is not only a politically incorrect but can you blame them of John McMunn that m.s.m. Machine is so powerful right we've seen that propaganda machine in Syria we saw to ground Libya you know we're seeing it now and then as well we saw in Haiti we saw $100.00 doors that that machine is relentless in its messaging when it comes to manipulating public opinion towards the State Department line whatever it might be particular when it comes to regime change and also you know let's face it those folks will call in the NGO clowns in the human rights acrobats to back up their side of the story that this is an embattled opposition this fighting for democracy against a dictatorship right so how can you blame how do we explain to anybody. Conscious or not to sort of how do we explain that kind of vision being a very. Loved who should know better will be going back and just there's this conversation around. A little bit of conscious white supremacy you know that's will be you have to begin to pinpoint some of those influences and so forth some of those contradictions because if you don't know we really misplaying some of this and do that READY looking and looking critically at the cycle pathology of white. People are you going to view the world and there in Florence up a little bit where they believe that there is in fact a white man to bring about some kind of suppositional transition practice because the net we're going to see the manipulation of left Washington us and their support of us and riches you have imperialism around the world. Caribbean of being another another example just remind us that last article you wrote addressing this what was it in that article work with find. And it was an m.r.i. Belief wasn't very sure what an embargo was going to say but right. By all accounts I don't like it in the report titled your article works but sure it was written and a lot of the Ukraine what we talk about the connection between. The right. And its national right and the world what do you want to. Make sure of that because distinguish between a little you know fascism and it we cannot defeat your faction let's also see the connection and the state. All right we're going to leave it there always a pleasure to talk with a general Baracoa he is a political analyst commentator He's written several very key articles recently being critical of the left in the United States and how they have accommodated u.s. Foreign policy when it comes to so-called humanitarian interventions which quite frankly I got to shake my head a group with you 100 percent it's a big bill need to draw a distinction between trying to help people and supporting our government when it has a project of regime change that ends up and it always ends up as something worse doesn't really. All right thank you so much Adama Baraka also former vice presidential candidate ran during the last election cycle as the vice president candidate with just time for the Green Party thanks again for joining us today on Flashpoints on Pacifica Radio. And now let's go ahead and take a look music when we get back when to talk with Uncle Bobby see if as I get an update on the love not blood campaign Stay tuned for that and more here on Flashpoints on Pacifica Radio. Please. Him. And. You. Can. Hear and welcome back to Flashpoints on Pacifica Radio I'm Kevin Pena filling in for Dennis Bernstein and now it's an honor to introduce our next guest it is Uncle Bobby Seafish Johnson he's the uncle of Oscar Grant he's also one of the founders of the love not blood campaign Uncle Bob welcome back to fashion some Pacifica Radio. 7 Yes thank you for having me back here on the radio station Ok our pleasure always well I wanted to sort of touch base with you and find out where is the love not blood campaign but before we do that let you just describe for our audience real quick and maybe those who aren't familiar with it what is the love not black campaign. Well enough not black campaign came into existence of course and the murder of my nephew after Grant. Went nonprofit organization and specifically works with families that have experienced that same type of crime and specifically but also include both that are more common time the communal violence senseless mass incarceration So basically we definitely go where we can you know financially based on what we can do and very close family support those families and. Invite them to some holistic. Help you know provide minimal mental help holistic help on you know on giving them space for them to express themselves to you know to better equip them so they move forward in getting the justice that they want you know who are the loss of their loved ones and that's a voice of the safest Johnson he is the uncle of Oscar Grant he's also want to found the love not blood campaign. Well so it's really victims' rights but it's also more than that you guys have been taking on the police officers associations you've been addressing the issue of the police officers bill of rights when you talk a little bit about that and let our audience know what is a police officer's Bill of Rights and why is it important that we understand it in the context they killing and shooting of use but you know use of color by police officers. Well of course you know 1st understanding what the Bill of Rights is it's a. Bill that has been put in place for state police to govern how they actually perform their their work and of course you know it's not actually a fraud or all the legislation that's bunk only the same for every state every state 20 sort of quarterly. Here in the state of California of course ours is one of the most rigid when it comes to the policeman bill of rights meaning that they are behind a shield that makes them almost impossible to ever hold an office or countable for any criminal act that he commits expression of the murder of a young black or brown or disadvantaged white person here in the state of California other states you have some rights to be able to look into their official folder see the history of the officer and better identify those officers then maybe walk around in the community or driving around in a community that are more apt to create the harm that we see on a regular consistent basis here in a state of California of course you can't do that so we don't know what kind of characters we have and then who are hired here in the state of California whether it be an Oakland summer so school taken Stockton Sacramento where they come from the kind of history they have behind them before they get here and saw what we see on a regular consistent basis and office has been repeat shouldn't you know we're not indict non-police officers but we are making it clear that there are police officers that are known to have a an extreme group of history and yet be protected because of the Valar rank here in the state of California that allows them to continue to do the work in the harm that they do in our community. And you're listening to Flashpoints on Pacifica Radio and that's when the co-founders of love not blood campaign about the secrecy . The uncle of Oscar Grant they work with victims rights for those families survivors their loved ones who have been killed unjustly by police officers let's talk about that now you know the pushback of course is that these guys have a tough job you know they feel like they're outgunned in the streets you know so so how can you blame them right because their job is so tough and the streets are violent of how do you how do you address people who who who have that position. Well you know I'll point them to a oh I can get her position in Regional Police Department and she I believe it. Not the captain of the forces were right next to get a position title came and gave a talk to the Barclay's Department concerning this particular training that they would like to incorporate within the culture of the bar police and it really applies to any police agency that's going to get this training and what their discovery was with that. They can get the streets off of this training what it creates is the officer learned how to create space and time before he returned x. And they engage with an alleged. Victim that has been allegedly involved in some crime before that before they pull their gun right so that's what I'm getting ready to say so what happens the most of the time when a police officer engage with expressed if he has that aptitude to be more aggressive. Because of what he perceived what there's a look the other side of the allow why or been a pastor this officer make sure and then articulate that he thought he was in danger because you took that particular stance or your pair divulge a 5th look like you didn't ready to attack. You know I thought we have many officers out there in the streets that are are well trained with muscle memory and otherwise they don't have to think of a situation and trigger that thought that this is a put the threat automatically going to the State of the Bible and next thing you know we have another dead man on the street you know our young man could be a 14 year old as we see it happening on a regular consistent basis and that's because example sort of hasn't developed understanding of how to create time and space. Over 50 percent of these shootings as when they are mentally ill people. And yet you've got all 90 pow a male that may appear to have some mental issues and. What was her name there was over time so it's gold pregnant woman 90 pounds praying the drone to the ground. And of course. Never was charged and they settled the case out of court really quickly but in the process or Sadly she lost her baby what will make a police Barclays officer or police officer roll a 90 pound. Might be acting erratic and I think that she was at that time because of an example. To the ground and arrest and beat up in a process of arresting you know. What happened to you know been able to talk a person down or even when it comes to a millennial person Leyton until you get a crisis they're going to teach invention team they're an officer there to actually work with that in the vision by deescalating the crowd deescalating the situation as opposed to reaching for a gun are resorting to violence immediately exactly you know and so we have a culture that things they want to push back the escalation 1st. You know that right to you that excessive force of the right to use for what they use the word is reasonable force but no reasonable force always appear to be excessive force because then the visual. Will get a really bad in the process and it doesn't mean that that person actually has grown any kind of a blow at the office or you know if you was my nephew I ask the ground one example are already pinned on the ground and yet offers to perceive that after had a gun stood up shot him in the back. You know and other than ours to think that I have those and all to get away with that of course the piece of or the Bill of Rights then tell them all they have to do is beg articulate why they give that they did and of course the standard is lack of see that my life was right and so because he proceeded after I had again even though he didn't have learned they've allowed to shoot him in the back and I almost really get away basically the big get away with it because they only did 11 months. And you're listening to flash point so Pacifica Radio and we're having a discussion on going to Scotia that we need I believe you'd agree to continue that there is still a disproportionate number of use of color who are being brutalized were still being shot by police officers predominantly white police officers is the way that it's gone down and it's pretty much the preponderance of what's what's happened doesn't . That is absolutely correct you know these officers these white officer you know state bought it and they bought as well this from a black of the sort of white officer down Leigh when we see a young man of color killed is you get a white officer so I mean why is that you know I mean the same black officer gauge the same community the same people and the young men they walk away without being harmed but yet if a white officer engaged a young man he may end up dead you know and so there is a real problem when it comes to how white people perceive. Young black male black males period anything they'll versus a black officer will perceive us when they engage us you know so they're always said that I believe that black officers will make better training instructors for white officers possibly. White officers and wanted to our communities and not only that if they were required to live in our communities and have to interact and deal . Communities of color right there would have a better understanding you know and yet they are allowed to live in a different part of the state travel 200 miles 100 miles to Oakland. On their gear and then I wanted to come back and hope that they get home well we're going to have to leave it there and I just want to comment your website is looking absolutely beautiful now and that is love not blood campaign dot com Is that right that's correct yes well I heard everybody take a look at that the love not blood campaign dot com Uncle Bob You see 1st the uncle of Oscar Grant fighting for victims rights sticking with it thank you so much for joining us today here on Flashpoints on Pacifica Radio Oh you're welcome Kevin thank you for having me and stay tuned we'll be right back with another tribute we're going to give a tribute this time to George Jackson today is the $46.00 anniversary of his slaying in San Quentin prison of course this is Black August that month again stay to be right back with that and more here on Flashpoints opposite the radio. And you are still listening to Flashpoints on Pacifica Radio and I'm still Kevin Pina filling in for Denis Bernstein I was reminded today by a good friend. That today is not just the eclipse of the Sun which I think far too much was made of because there's the eclipse then there's the eclipse. Of a lot in this country that we see going down but she reminded me Keeler reminded me and reminded many of her fans who are on her mailing list that today is also August 21st the anniversary of the assassination of George Jackson please join me in welcoming and Yasha always a pleasure to hear from you welcome to flashpoints opposite of a radio Well thank you. So much for having me Kevin It's a pleasure it's been a while since we've connected it has been been too long but I'm glad to have you now it's good fantastic let's just talk about the legacy of George Jackson and about the importance of today well it's the 46th anniversary of his assassination and it's still so alive in so powerful because I mean is looks are still banned I mean in prisoners get thrown in a hole for reading a book so I'm heat he's still very much alive and well in the in the in the spiritual world because you know is this legacy is just so powerful that he's a he's a symbol of black resistance to white supremacy in many ways is an absolutely because the. George DACs in Howard toll ropey now. And that we will Nolan and many of the brothers William Christmas and James McClain so many brothers behind the walls in the sixty's. Were involved in what they called the black movement and it morphed into some some of the brothers morphed into the Black Panther Party on the inside and George became Field-Marshal on the prison movement on inside Field-Marshal the Black Panther Party on the inside but basically it began as a black movement because of the really no notoriously overt racism and then the collusion between the prison guards and the Ripper practically all white at the time and very racist. Kook likes plan types and. The. The brothers were under constant attack and. George Jackson caught up in the case. That became famously known as the soul of the brothers days when. In the wake of the guard killing a 3 of the black prisoners w.-l. Nolan being one of them 3 jugs Milliron and Cleve Edwards on a yard of of. Solid out present. 19 January 970 and they the brothers you know demanded that the Guard be tried that he be prosecuted in court they came back with their infant miss. Kangaroo Court number you know justifiable homicide which was a very common phrase at the time that they used and so the brothers were incensed and the next thing you know our guard was thrown off a tear and killed in retaliation. John to safely to drum go and George stacks and caught the case. Actually they were all acquitted both George post to mislead but eventually they were all acquitted. And you know George was assassinated before they went to trial but the pretrial hearings was where I 1st saw George and I'm I got managed to get a press card to go visit him during the hearings and you know I had begun a correspondence with him connecting with him through the lawyers I worked for the pan for lawyers and. In New Haven and so I we had started a card correspondence and. Prior to my even leaving the haven and when I got out of here he told me to get a press card so I did and got got to see visit with him for an hour in a holding cell in the bank when. And I was just absolutely devastated that his death I mean was this. It was a milestone in my life. It. It actually pursue pertain to my total commitment to the movement to the struggle very shortly thereafter I I left Sun reporter I was a news editor at the time and I walked out when they cut up my article on Attica and I decided I was going to work for any more black cat. Capitalist black or white or purple you know so. Your exam impacted my life tremendously and he impacted Oh many. As well and he still impacting people fly with so my dad brother in prison letters from George and book published post to mislead but my own. Right you know he said things like fascism is temporarily exceeded under the guise of before and that holds true today and we're seeing that unfold even now when I remind our listeners if you're just tuning in that's a voice of my guest Keven Yasha a long time activist works around prison reform keeping folks alive imprisoned in prison rights movement also has her own show called Freedom is a constant struggle I encourage you to look that up and she's got she's doing video now as well that show right freedom is a constant struggle we can you know you can find it on You Tube But you know just punch in my name Q Ok I tell you last name and it's a Nancy why like and Sam ha and why they try and it will come up with You Tube and all my previous episodes and their most recent one was done on Black August and has . Some commentary by George himself you know taken from an interview care and Wall did in 71 and lots of other footage and commentary about black on this and also an interview with keep Watley who was. Now their lawyer. And just so folks know we are discussing the 46 I believe he said anniversary. Of the coming it's not we can't commemorated it's interesting that the English language anniversary of the assassination of George Jackson is not something that we can really commemorate or or or look to as as a joyful thing but on the other hand we can see we can take that date and we can memorialize the life of Georgia. Jackson right we can we can i want to his memory and what he stood for absolutely he was our I'm a martyr for our you know liberation struggle for our movement for our cause and he made the ultimate sacrifice. And he knew that he was under attack I mean. They had tried many times to kill him in fact there was one. Dude who literally testified that he was. Solicited by guards to kill George so its name won't come to me right now but yeah they were made definitely had it in for George they didn't want to get rid of him anyway by any means necessary and ultimately they did and I can only imagine what he'd be thinking about was going down today with yeah you know I mean on the other hand you have to give him credit I mean he was a wire and he said maybe to 5 with the 3 guys into it may turn coats were killed on August 21st we can't forget that and of course the case of the San Quentin 6 turned into the longest trial in California history that culminated in 1976 all 5 of the prisoners got out within a reasonable period of time but. Even even Spain was the only one convicted of murder got out in the late eighty's but. You know was kept in solitary confinement for nearly 46 years and altered willing murdered himself on the yard of Folsom like George if they wanted to eliminate him and they did Homelink Ulick you know I'm wondering I've got to ask you we're talking about George Jackson forge a kind of or 3 of his murder in San Quentin but I want to I want to in his legacy of course I want to ask you I got to ask you before I let you go what do you think about what's going on now since Charlottesville and what do you think about this move now to take away g iconography to confess. Federal see and certainly you know for as much as I disagree with trumpet a lot of ways he's honest he honestly you know his statement is sort of double leg he said well how far is going to go you know Abraham Lincoln you know May races Camas George Washington Thomas Jefferson owned slaves they were slavers are we going to go after them too well what do you think about what's going on right now and I'm curious Well what I think is is that well I mean it's a stretch given I have to correct you are going to call Trump on it but I understand what you're saying you're saying that he's right about Jefferson and Washington state's right Labor so and yeah every now and then he had to nail on the head except that he doesn't give a damn about whether they were slaves or not we should actually see if he's happy that we're all slaves any building up the prison movement as we speak the private prison movement to lock more of us up there are more black and slave prison now than there were in chattel slavery but back to your point and then that was under the Midwest Bianna So that was also under Barack Obama. Oh yeah it doesn't make any difference what color the fascist is in the White House fascism is the marriage of corporate. Corporations big business and government and you know characterized by the militant militarization and capitalism and racism and amid this same fascism I don't know what is so yeah it's been fast is it's just a truck I don't like to call it's a brand name I call them fastest 45. Or the creep or the idiot because he's he's just much more blatant and much more ignorant then then then the rest of them have been I mean he's practically an idiot. I love him yeah but I love it though because it like you'd like rip away the illusion right there's yet more illusion about what that hour is you know that because it was always it was always that it was always masked by something else but now it's all right ask exactly it's on mask and look at how quickly the whole Congress came together when one of them got shot oh yeah if you notice that Ok so we have to you know stick by sells them the illusion that this Congress this White House is anything but what it is it's a fascist bastion of exploitation and just. Doing Tauriel domination is supposed to talk received so far from from a democracy it's not even funny about standards it's hypocrisy you better you didn't say that to Barbara Lee Oh I don't know and Barbara Lee and the rest of them all of them are all misleaders. They're capitalists. They have foundations and they're all very very wealthy they are not adding can slow the poor I'm to meet George and the black liberation movement and comrades the Panthers and all of us you know the Young Lords he worked to. Peace and Freedom and we were all fighting for revolutionary. You know for a revolution I mean to really transform this government you know to to to not just to replace one percent with another one percent but to replace the one percent with the 99 percent I got to be facetious or you know I love you but how that works out for you where there's a you know trying to trying to change that trying to push that rock up a hill and then now oh well we're still you know what I'm more hopeful now than I ever was because people are awake Ok people are wide awake as a says young people say they're woke and more and more people are taking to the streets of every description and Kevin you must admit Have you ever seen this many people of different ethnicities coming together in the way and they are today well it's definitely interesting but you know I also see that veneer of the Democratic Party trying to Bonnie and you know it's like you know there's all those those elements in those voices just swirling in the Move On crowd once well man running around directly right and that's where our job comes in. Job comes in to read the drop a leave. This one party left and so-called left and right of the same fascist party really it's really one party state because the Democrats and Repub What's the difference between them you know really they're both warmongers you know they both sat behind all these imperial wars and that number 17000000 plus growing children in this country living below the poverty level they just don't seem to want to do anything about it it is not already right yeah homelessness How do you not tackle homeless that it takes rose in expense San Francisco nobody can live it teaches can't live in San Francisco and. And teach at the schools that they they work at because they they can afford to live there it's insane homelessness this is outrageous it's millions of people homeless all across this country now wait and I know that just wait a minute now that's just a little bit too negative about this good USA Now come on now don't you talk about my American dream like that baby come on. That's the that is the laugh in the voice of my guess the wonderful q. And yeah sure we're talking we started this conversation now paying tribute to George Jackson today August 21st is the 46th anniversary of his murder in San Quentin we were talking about his legacy and we sort of segue into the current state of affairs but it's a pleasure as always killer to hear your views we agree on a lot of fundamental issues well just remember to keep faith in the people because the people have the power we just have to unite keep going yeah sure thanks so much for being my guest today on Flashpoints. Thank you Kevin and Keith and I keep up your good work and let's go ahead and take another break when we get back we're going to talk with Ishmael Reed the famous essayist author a novelist about the legacy of Dick Gregory Stay tuned we'll be right back. You're listening to Flashpoints on Pacifica Radio Well the world lost a great man recently Dick Gregory dead at the age of 84 an incredible satirist an amazing civil rights warrior Now joining me is a man of equal stature political satirist essayist novelist the distinguished and renowned Ishmael Reed welcome to flashpoints or well thank you let's talk a little bit about what Dick Gregory represents who is Dick Gregory for you and what have we lost with the passing of this gentleman Well I think of Dick Gregory as somebody who made a lot of money decided to become a social activist and somebody who was going to be traditional African-American Hispanic of use we kind of money to make serious points and I thank you so much you might call it comic aggression I think that the appeals prior to that black writers spokespersons have been couched in a very lofty right which And I think that Dick Gregory was blunt but his use of humor made audiences are relaxed I presented you name in New Orleans 978 and he were promoting one of his products so that Manali couldn't answer stands or go abilities and so he gave a commonality about it from an ice cream he said he attributed the defeat of Leon 6 years opponent to that formula and so you go off into you know health improvement products from things like that but basically he was someone who said what was on a lot of people's minds like no Connex people were great either that's was my guess is we'll read very well known author and poet honored to have you on. Here again let me say that again sir just an honor to have you but this talk a little bit about his legacy with the civil rights movement was a such a connection between Dick Gregory in the civil rights movement Well he was informed sometimes he was a little bent toward conspiracy theories you know he would show up and he believed that having discipline to train his body for insurance like fasting and other exercises not think that gave him longevity but doesn't mean he was a voice and who was someone who could cut through all the b.s. So here's somebody who gave up a fortune in order to be a spokesperson and sort of like advocate for the masses of people I think that degrees legacy is that he changed the way blacks address to the main address to Main Street of course there was a tradition of the blacks communicating with each other you see him as a pioneer that Oh absolutely they're great they're great black comedians before Dick Gregory but many of them were in the circle chitlin circuit or they performed at clubs in Harlem you know I grit box of people came out of the select a black circuit but he was someone who mainstream black comedy and he did a very sophisticated very intelligent very informed manner I think he's probably more informed than some of the other comics of that period but we're all plus 5 by means of the 1950 s. And sixty's because like Lenny Bruce and people like that because they were much more sophisticated the address that social issues I were just like the Milton Berle types you know they all book vaudevillian types so I think a Dick Gregory was an at that tradition where Cher missing his voice now around all this this mess that went down in Charlottesville and this whole discussion Rafer Patel I would happen if he did Oh absolutely I mean he was able to go through a lot of stuff I remember Jack Kemp you know these. Be a moderate wing. Republican Party but now days looks like now they're voting party looks like in some subsidiary of the not too funny at the Jack Kemp was made making a speech and being all goody good black people and I remember Dick Gregory after he left it got to put it down. You know so he was able to cut through a lot as not that like you 78 when I covered the stakes the fight role in annoyance and radio there was the Gregory identified the assassin of j.f.k. Who lived in New Orleans but he did if I just guy lived in New Orleans and got confessed in prison that he was in on it but to Gregory was bold enough to identify him and so the test comes the next day there was always standing Marion to Greg and I asked us government our government fight the Village Voice. To Gregory really go into that and should we go out and arrest this guy and to Gregory sort of backed off but he was he was trying to. Be very daring and very courageous and that was an example of it so I mean I know about Lee Harvey Oswald and I know about Jack Ruby and I've heard about the assertions of the connection between the mob and the assassination of j.f.k. But you're saying that degrade re actually pursue death he had done a 5 he had done of by one of the somebody who was in on it in on a conspiracy and the guy was alive at the time and he was living in New Orleans and I t. 78 and later this same guy confessed in prison that he was in on it you know to you know you had to get some receiver guns and they couldn't fight if a person but he was definitely that that bold and and was not afraid to express himself well I will happily admit my ignorance and that I will I will definitely dig into that deeper but I think that's a great story that sort of points to the fact that degrade gree In addition as you said to reach. Being wider audience is he received he could talk and I think right audience as well as a black audience but he also was courageous courageous man I think and I was kind of Marcellus Marcellus who was a dagger and trigger in the bone so that's but that's really just to point out how courageous Dick Gregory was right I'm literally absolutely he just took him on and he didn't care I'm afraid I'm afraid to express it and let the chips fall where they may and you can use you know he didn't use any of this well Gary I don't even call it dog hair so base that you know comedians I'm not a prude but I think sometimes. You know it's if you were to Brisket salads. While you guys are you never. Were you would it was not it was a certain degree of imaginative enough you have to resort to that he did he could be clean and he could still be funny absolutely absolutely all right we're going to leave it there again that's the voice of my guest Ishmael read the renowned poet S.A.'s author novelist we are giving a tribute today to the passing of a great figure in American culture in this in this is Sidey for me and I'm sure for millions of other Americans that's a passing of the dear departed Dick Gregory died at 84 years old this past weekend Ishmael Reed thank you so much for joining us today on Flashpoints opposite the greater sir Ok thank you. And that wraps it up for another edition of flashpoints our executive producer is Dennis Bernstein our roving producer and producer of flashpoints in Espanol is Miguel govern long enough our technical director is Mike fix our guest host and senior producer is Kevin Pina for more information about the show to listen to or download archived episodes log on to flashpoints dot net for questions or comments about flashpoints you can contact Dennis at Dennis Shay Burstein at g. Mail dot com Thank you for listening. Jay p.f.a. Invites you to our tribute to the Life and Work of Margaret Randall writer poet feminist photographer and international activist Margaret participated in the Mexican student movement of 1000. $68.00 lived in row prodigious Li in Cuba during the 2nd decade of that country's revolution then resided in Nicaragua during the 1st 4 years of the Sandinista revolution she has published more than $100.00 books or read and discuss her life on Wednesday evening September 20th 730 at the hillside club and Berkeley 2286 leaders street. Benefit wheelchair accessible will be hosted by San Francisco poet laureate. Tickets.

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