Angelos a community service in Pasadena City College offering over 50 free noncredit courses with flexible schedule. Do learn more at Pasadena dot edu. And. Today. With a teacher from. New York this is on the media. And I'm Bob Garfield the parallels between the impeachment of Andrew Johnson 150 years ago and today. They even had coverage. And d.c. To. The press was part of but you had some really wonderful journalists and the most surprising one was Mark Twain also to understand how the illiberal conservative movement. To its roots back to you for 40 years what did it get us gay people can get married abortion is still legal and the causes dear to religious conservatives there's no progress on that front it's all coming up after that. From n.p.r. News in Washington. The f.b.i. Says it's investigating Friday's fatal shooting at a u.s. Navy Base in Florida as an act of terrorism Meanwhile the Defense Department is reviewing its screening procedures for foreign nationals who come to the u.s. For military training N.P.R.'s Bobby Allen reports federal investigators are trying to determine what motivated the military student to carry out the rampage inside of a Pensacola Naval Base classroom on Friday defense secretary Mark Asper said on Fox News Sunday that the incident is also prompting a review of how foreign nationals are vetted before coming to the u.s. For military training my understanding is currently of course a review by department state there reviewed by Department Homeland Security and they are reviewed by us and I want to make sure that those those procedures are full and sufficient The Pentagon has long allowed military officers from other countries to train in the u.s. Defense officials have defended the exchanges as investigators examine how the program screens for officers the Navy has identified the 3 victims who were killed trying to stop the gunman Bobby Allen n.p.r. News Washington. North Korea says it's carried out a very important test at a long range rocket launch site the us had earlier said had been partially dismantled. Providing details Michael Sullivan reports the latest. Appears to be another attempt by North Korea's leader Kim Jong un to pressure the u.s. For more concessions before December 31st deadline imposed by Kim after which he's hinted the North might seek a different path denuclearization talks between the 2 sides essentially stalled in February North Korea has conducted a series of mostly short range missile tests since then and North Korea has signaled recently that it will negotiations with the u.s. 2 prominent American business leaders have been denied entry into the Chinese territory of Macau. Phang reports the address the rejection comes amid growing tensions between the u.s. And China over Beijing's handling of protests in Hong Kong Tara. The president and chairman of the American Chamber of Commerce or. Were briefly detained by immigration officials while trying to enter Macau. Both eventually returned to Hong Kong they told me that they were not given a reason for their refusal and jam has expressed support for China's efforts to develop commercial ties between Hong Kong and the mainland but spoke out against the now withdrawn Hong Kong extradition bill that sparked the current protests. The former Portuguese colony of Macao is only about an hour's fire ride from Hong Kong this month the 20th anniversary of its handover to China. N.p.r. News. This is n.p.r. And from. Some of the stories we're following. The latest. Forecast predicts the growth of California's economy. Slow in 2020 will continue to outpace the nation's growth Jerry Nichols bergs director of the closely watched report he says with California near full employment the state simply can't grow as fast we have an unemployment rate just 3.9 percent and historically low unemployment rate and that news is really a lack of workers and the sectors to be hired which would spur faster growth where they you know where they available he says the nation's recent job gains and new housing starts show the economy remains healthy even as the pace of growth decreases the holidays in full swing for many families that means taking the kids to see Santa Claus but among Southern California as many shopping centers most mall saddos are white spirit McAfee traveled from Long Beach to the Baldwin Hills Crenshaw Plaza so her 2 young children could visit an African-American Santa this is a magical person it's a special They bring gifts they celebrate so it's nice for them to see something I'm positive that looks like them when they look in the mirror everything doesn't have to be a different color it just shows you know that 1st that audio courtesy of our media partner n.b.c. For Baldwin Hills Crenshaw says it's one of the few malls in the country to feature a Black Sabbath although there's no official count the staffing company schools for Sat has estimates only 5 percent of professional satis are of color the feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe began about 500 years ago in Mexico but today the Catholic holidays widely celebrated by Latino's around the world on December 12th the tale Gomez with Forest Lawn Glendale says festival years are coming a few days early in an annual family celebration today featuring face painting mariachi music and ballet folkloric all Farman says we have got the closest to the holidays it's time to celebrate our seats to follow the police. He says Forest Lawn Glendale is also hosting a bilingual religious ceremony led by local priest Mario Juarez admission and parking free it's going on today from to tell 5 rain or shine it's 10 o 6 support for n.p.r. Comes from Jane in general kat. Supporting the children's movements of Florida dedicated to helping all children enter school with the social emotional and intellectual skills needed to succeed more information is available at Children's Movement Florida dot org And Americans for the Arts. Of me when my see in New York is on the media I'm for a class down and up Garfield instead of being Crosby's Christmas album we're going to have impeachment at the end yes as former acting attorney general Matt Whitaker observed Thursday on Fox It's beginning to look a lot like impeachment perhaps just in time for the holidays tree tops glisten and children listen to hear accusations of bribery obstruction and abuse of presidential power with confidence and humanity with allegiance to our founders and factional of lots. Today I'm asking a chairman to besiege with articles of impeachment in finally giving her green light House Speaker Nancy Pelosi rejected Republican accusations of political vendetta and couched the decision as constitutional duty this setting the stage for what for exactly the absurd spectacle we've experienced literally from day one of Trump's presidency documented facts against a vaudeville of denial so here we are again after 3 years facing one of the more memorable Yuletide ever and we have in all that time advanced the story impeachment or no impeachment not one Christmas fake. Professor Carlin of Stanford a witness handpicked by Democrats to debunk Republican accusations of unfairness lack of due process sham and coup d'etat was no nonsense about this what has happened in the case today is something that I do not think we have ever seen before a president who has doubled down on violating his oath to feed fully execute the laws and to protect and defend the Constitution but not so fast it may seem like Trump's flouting of Congress is singular that his governing by executive is unprecedented but nope been Lare impeached that in 868 the House of Representatives voted for articles of impeachment against President Andrew Johnson as a us senator and vice president under Abraham Lincoln Johnson had fought hard against the session and revered the Constitution but installed in the presidency after Lincoln's assassination he thwarted congressional plans for reconstruction is reason Congress had declined to immediately offer the 11 former Confederate States their former seats without concessions such as the right of suffrage for free blacks thus Johnson concluded the legislative branch was illegitimate the incomplete Congress could pass no laws and he proceeded to do whatever he could to return freed slaves in the South to an existence of other degradation Brenda wine Apple as the author of The impeach or the trial of Andrew Johnson and the dream of a just nation she says that after Lincoln died Congress was out of session Johnson refused to call a special session and instead began acting on his own he started putting into place executive actions in the south that would reconstruct the government's along thought the white supremacist lines. Prevented the formerly enslaved people from making contracts from moving from marrying from any kind of due process when Congress got back into session 1st they passed a civil rights law Johnson vetoed it Congress passed the legislation over his vetoes and then they started the reconstruction laws to put the formerly seceded States back into Congress by getting them to redo their constitutions to make sure that black men had the vote and also to ratify the 14th Amendment because by this time Congress had decided due process should be enshrined in the Constitution they also passed the tenure of office Act the tenure of office Act said that cabinet members who have been approved by the Senate cannot be fired unless the Senate approves that too the reason they pass that particular law was to protect a specific cabinet member Edwin Stanton who was the secretary of war the military had been kept in the South to make sure that black men and white loyalists were able to get to the polls there were generals who were appointed essentially as viceroys who had fought to protect the union and now they see people slaughtered on the streets so they were there to prevent this kind of violence Johnson fired Edwin Stanton. And because Johnson had violated a specific law the House of Representatives felt it had no choice but to vote overwhelmingly to impeach Andrew Johnson that happened in February of 1968 I want to ask you about Johnson's motives and his authoritarianism One is that he wanted to rebuild the union as quickly as possible the other is that he was just a naked white supremacist which of those do you think best describes his motives he did want the union reconstructed this quickly as possible but he said this is a white man's country and by God it will be a white man's government Johnson who was born in North Carolina as poor white as you could possibly be his mother sent him and his brother out as indentured servants and when he ran away from the tailor shop where he was indentured the owner of the shop put out Wanted sign as if Johnson were a fugitive slave he's not a planter his not part of the Southern our stock or say that it does not mean that he doesn't really at some level want to be part of them so when he gets into the White House he begins pardoning those aristocrats who served in the Confederate army or in the Confederate government almost 100 a day he becomes quite authoritarian he loves the union but he also loves the power of white people over everyone else. It's not just some political squabble that we're discussing here right there were black Americans shot in the street for the crime of being black right in both Memphis in this spring of 866 and then in New Orleans that summer black men and women were slaughtered on the streets women were raped beatings and whippings in both cases concerted mob violence that began to be understood as the formation of the Ku Klux Klan which people in the Democratic press or the white supremacists press dismissed as propaganda there were a constant reports of this by journalists who traveled south by the military and actually Congress convened a committee that took testimony under 44 people testified about what was going on in the south and it was dismissed by Johnson thanks to The Telegraph Yeah there was a lively daily press already developed in 868 but almost every paper was affiliated with a party or a faction of a part as absolutely right was it like every outlet was Fox News spending the narrative to suit its own constituents with m s n b c 2. But yes all the press was partisan but you had some really wonderful journalists in the most surprising one was Mark Twain and early on in the impeachment trial was actually covering it caustic and is insightful is anyone that you wanted to meet or read. Metal joke about Fox News but were any of the major papers at the time so partisan as to utterly distort the actual straight dope in order to support its audience's worldview you had a lot of speculation you had a lot of propaganda in New York World gave me the chills because it was so incredibly racist but that doesn't mean they were making up things the scary thing to me is that this kind of propaganda sometimes hardens and it calcifies into history Yes And in fact the calcification of history and give you a good example John Kennedy's Profiles in Courage which got a Pulitzer Prize one of the chapters claims that a man named Edwin Ross junior senator from Kansas was in self courageous heroic for casting the vote that kept Andrew Johnson in office Andrew Johnson it said should never have been impeached it was the radical fanatic maniacal Republicans who wanted him out of office and you can still sort of hear some of that point of view today Kennedy writes There was no real reason for Johnson to be impeached the issues were not national issues you look back you say how can you say that well if you read Ross is memoir that's what he's going to say because he's justifying his vote the deciding vote rather than being a profile in courage may have been a profile in bribery Sturgill evidence Well there's quite a bit of historical evidence and Ross the junior senator from Kansas he kept going to Johnson and there are letters where he says for my vote would you please take care of say my father in law my brother and myself. Yes Johnson would do whatever he asked and then Ross would come back for another favor sorry to have to come back but for my vote this holy. Yeah the nation was only 79 years into the life boats to do anything but even then they had to deal with the murky language of the framers as in What the hell are high rise and misdemeanor rights so for guidance they turned to Alexander and we do the same thing today in Federalist $65.00 Hamilton said that a civil officer particularly a president could be impeached for something called maladministration an abuse of the public trust now that doesn't make things very clear but it was actually a pretty smart not to be so specific because the kinds of maladministration or misbehavior or abuse is going to change over time unfortunately what's elastic is also kind of murky at the same time so how did the house determine that Johnson crossed the line into political crime people were so offended by his bigotry but I think Congress was illegitimate and couldn't pass any laws because those 11 states weren't seated in it there were some who were so horrified by that that they wanted to impeach Johnson is there really is 867 the issues went to the Judiciary Committee we've heard of them but they were waiting for a specific violation of law because of these very murky issues about what abuse of power by the time that they actually voted overwhelmingly as I said to impeach Andrew Johnson they voted because of the trip wire Violet. Of the tenure of office Act So firing Stanton was the hey would you do me a favor perfect phone call exactly it was the straw that broke the camel's back it was the perfect phone call you know it was considered so egregious that it didn't take very long for the house to drop those articles of impeachment there were 119 of which dealt with the violation of the tenure of office all right now spoiler alert intra Johnson was acquitted in his Senate trial by one very questionable vote it was it mostly along partisan lines mostly but not entirely there were 7 Republicans who voted along with the Democrats to keep Johnson in office what happened was each were very close to an election the Republicans had Ulysses s. Grant the popular war hero waiting in the wings they wanted to nominate him and they were afraid that if Benjamin weight considered a radical Republican were to take Johnson's office even for a short amount of time that would somehow undermine Ulysses s. Grant and Grant might even have to put Wade on the ticket with him but there were other reasons to do something that we would call dark money today was floating around that was a House investigation of what was going on favors being passed back and forth and promises made by and large however of the and Pietschmann was a partisan process this all played out familiarly enough as Johnson was writing himself for reelection campaign was there consideration in the House about just letting electoral politics take their natural course no the House felt it had no choice but to call for with impeachment I mean it had been dragging its feet but when Johnson by. Islet at the law they just said that's enough the Senate is a different story it's a higher bar for removal from office it's not a simple majority it's 2 thirds Now I happen to know of a president facing impeachment who responds by refusing to cooperate with congressional subpoenas adverts vicious ad hominum attacks on all of his perceived enemies including members of his own administration how do you do Johnson respond to the process he wanted to take his case to the people he was a demagogue stirring up crowds and actually calling believe it or not for the execution of his perceived enemies particularly men in Congress so he was is epithets drooling as anyone you might think of in the present Oh and I might add he didn't need his secretary of energy to compare him to Jesus Christ he just took care of that himself what he told black people that he was going to be there Moses . As he thought of himself as deeply persecuted to Johnson was acquitted and then came the election but it's not as though he lost in a general election to Ulysses s. Grant he never got to a general election no the Democrats felt that he was toxic they had had enough of intrigue Johnson looked quite enough and know his political crew did not I don't know he was not a broken man he was an angry man and in the $870.00 s. Andrew Johnson is sent back by the Tennessee legislature to the United States Senate and what does he do he stands up and he goes on a rant against Ulysses s. Grant during congressional recess enter Johnson goes home and passes away before he can do any more damage in the Senate throughout this conversation I've been pointing out parallels so. All of them actually quite eerie 250 years ago and today. What lessons should we take from the Johnson impeachment. Having 9 Articles of Impeachment focused on the violation of the law and only to on abuse of power and obstruction of justice means that people forgot that the real issues at stake were not the question of this particular law maybe even this particular phone call if you want to make that kind of analogy but actually the direction that the country should and would go in today what's at stake too is the direction of the country that really what's behind the abuse of power is the destruction of a whole democratic structure in the independence of a sovereign country and the fact in both cases that no one not even a chief executive is above the law. Brenda thank you very much thank you. Historian Brenda Weiner is the author of computers. Coming up a map for navigating the nation's political. Song the media. And the media is supported by Progressive Insurance offering snapshot a device designed to reward safe drivers learn more at progressive dot com or 100 progressive Now that's progressive and indeed with indeed employers can post a job in minutes set up screening questions and 0 in on a shortlist of qualified candidates using and. Learn more and indeed. This is coming up at noon it's fresh air today Terry Gross talks with Edward Norton about his new movie Motherless Brooklyn about a detective with Tourette's and David Harbor star of stranger things talked about how having bipolar disorder has affected his life in acting That's coming up at noon. A taser is a weapon designed to stun a suspect it's the most complicated thing a cop has on his or her belt but in police departments across America tasers aren't always living up to their promise so this sort of guy. In. The next revealed Sunday evenings is 689.38 p.c.c. . 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This is on the media Bob Garfield and I'm Brooke lad stone after Speaker Nancy Pelosi announced that the house would be drawing up articles of impeachment a reporter asked her if she hated the president I think the president is a coward when it comes to helping kids who are afraid of gun violence I think he is when he doesn't deal with helping our dreamers I think he's in denial about the current crisis however that's about the election this is about the Constitution of the United States and the facts that lead to the president's violation of office and as a Catholic I resent your using the word hate in a sentence that expresses. The Constitution invoked repeatedly by Democrats served as a rebuke to Republicans who oppose putting the president on trial undemocratic. You're talking about overturning 63000000 votes. Elected who is doing his job every day never mind that more than 73000000 people voted against Trump for better or worse our elections are determined by the Electoral College and if this really were about warding the will of the electorate that would be a cause for concern but the G.O.P.'s appeal to respect the people's will is hollow or even then it sounds because its leadership no longer is interested in majority rule to explain how and why let's start in March and the publication in the conservative journal 1st things of a manifesto signed by 15 conservative intellectuals it was called against consensus and it plotted a new course for the conservative movement its stated principles were adamant if. We oppose the soulless society of individual affluence we resisted to radical liberalism. We want a country that works for workers we stand with the American citizen and family and nationalism but what is the dead consensus it stands against That's the question that's why things seem so different now according to Matthew sickman associate editor common weale Naga Zene and co-host of the no your enemy podcast the dead consensus is the strain of conservatism which in the fifty's flowered in the pages of William Buckley s National Review right up until term the mix of social conservatism and religious values with more libertarian economics and then during the Cold War a kind of strong anti-communism and then after the Cold War something like George w. Bush's kind of muscular aggressive foreign policy this manifesto was a coming out party say that especially after trumps when that form of conservatism was over what was their beef with the Ronald Reagan style of conservatism Well for one they are recognizing as Trump did at least rhetorically that the economy was no longer working for a lot of working class Americans so they were responding to some of that economic anxiety and populous discontent but it was even driven more by the rise of l g b t rights the acceptance of trans people one way of reading the manifesto is to say in that mix of social conservatism libertarianism and foreign policy views social conservatism got the raw deal we cut taxes again and again we started wars abroad those factions got what they wanted but we backed you for 40 years what did it get us date people can get married abortion is still legal transfer are increasingly being accommodated whether it's in public restrooms and public schools and they think are causes the causes dear to religious conservatives. There's no progress on that front there was a kind of existential urgency I think because birth rates were plummeting and marriage rates were down it was also politically opportune because of Trump Yes Trump was a kind of wrecking ball the language used around economics about American workers being ripped off at almost every point Trump pushed against the consensus what's happening with China what's happening with Japan what's happening with Mexico they're just absolutely eating our lunch it's a shame it's terrible so I have to stay true to my principles also and I'm a conservative but don't forget this is called the Republican Party it's not called the Conservative Party you know there are conservative parties as well the Republican Party once you have all the conservative magazines and funders and intellectuals and policy people lining up with the nationalist idea that's basically the trump of the cation of the conservative intellectual movement the nationalism might be the most important and broadly supported of the illiberal ideas percolating on the right you mentioned declining birth rates they actually use the language of display seen American citizens the displacement of white people and the plummeting birth rates of white people that's right Trump put immigration at the center of what the Republican Party and conservative intellectuals are thinking about right now this past summer in July at the Ritz Carlton if people could come in and take their seats there was meeting of national conservatives I'd like to introduce our keynote speaker here embrace in the term nationalism that was the new brand no one saw it coming that the next big thing of the 21st century would be the nation state the case for American nationalism is self evident nationalism is going to ask hard questions it's going to ask how does our country stack up against other countries how does it compare everyone was there conservative intellectuals like rest. Who edits 1st things where against that consensus was published a sitting senator like Josh Ali the leadership class have attempted to build a new state in their own image one that exists cut off from our history separate from our shared beliefs beyond borders and beyond belong or that project has failed Tucker Carlson the Fox News host There's nothing inherently wrong with nationalism in fact it should be the default setting for a nation right I mean by definition. But what was interesting was the way they were uncomfortable invoking race specifically they use more euphemistic language there has to be a return to national tradition Anglo American traditions of constitutionalism the common law the English language and the Christian religion but at one point Amy wax a University of Pennsylvania law professor let the mask slip and she said you know in the immigration policy I want it will mean more white people she offered a decoder ring for all this that all the language you can use about cultural heritage about Anglo American traditions Judeo Christian values really you're talking about race. So this piece that ran in 1st things about the dead consensus it both Did I really have to roster of co-authors this was one flag that was planted where a rejection of the old ideas and an embrace of something closer to trump ism was made explicit but if you take a step back one of the most interesting ways to understand how conservative intellectuals are relating to trump can be seen in the figure of rusty Reno who's the 1st things editor when Trump was running in the Republican primaries and it wasn't quite certain whether he would win or not National Review published and against Trump issue Reno contributed an article why he was against Trump he eventually endorsed him for president but a bit grudgingly and then after Trump was inaugurated he kind of was a little more keen on Trump but he said you know if Trump implements the policies he's spoken about a more restrictive immigration policy Reno would stand up and speak out against Trump if any of this was implemented in a cruel or unjust way that was an January 2017 now fast forward to last summer July 21000 Reno was speaking openly about nationalism the nation is a political community and is shared way of life it is not a clan bonded together by family ties as a consequence patriotic love is a great cure for our self-love a-Q. Or indeed that is more powerful and clan and family ties Reno did not utter a word about any of what we're seeing at the border kids in cages family separation the deeply into made conditions people are being kept in and so you see the movement from opposition to lukewarm acceptance to now openly embracing nationalism turning a blind eye toward the injustices he once said he would speak out against and that is emblematic I think of a lot of conservative intellectuals. You used to be a conservative yourself yes now you have a podcast called Know Your Enemy right what happened well that's a long story but I was especially in college and graduate school very involved in the conservative intellectual movement the magazines and personalities and ideas I'm describing here where once I was immersed in you know there's that famous line attributed to Winston Churchill that if you're not a liberal when you're young you have no heart and if you are conservative when you're older you have no brain something like that my experience was the opposite I started out a young conservative and then as I saw and experienced more I realize that people suffered and struggled for reasons that had nothing to do with their own virtue or hard work that a lot of the conservative tropes about why people were poor why people might need government assistance or the general idea that you could pull yourself up by your bootstraps and make it that just in map on to the people I knew and what they were going through I dug into the history more and I realized how central race and racism was to the rise of the right economically I just did not believe anything conservatives were selling anymore and in general too you know I grew up in a very working class conservative home connected to traditional religious values and I'm still religious my views on a lot of those hot button social issues have changed to I'm writing about institutions and ideas and people programs that I have familiarity with and so I both try to understand them but also level the critiques they feel like I'm well positioned to make because I have experienced this. So for the record give me a definition of illiberal is a well one feature of liberalism is I think it's a Morpheus quality right now. And there are different strains there's the nationalism there's the Catholic integral ism more almost the a Craddick the temporal power subordinate to the spiritual power which say the Catholic Church and you have a political theory critique of liberalism that you find in the work of someone like Patrick to mean wrote a book called Why liberalism failed which is on President Obama's reading list a summer or 2 ago. So it's a mansion with many rooms in it it sounds like all the rooms are shaped a little empty democratically Well the connection between liberalism democracy is a complicated one but what I would say is that liberalism is a political philosophy not the partisan contemporary political me but Liberalism is a political philosophy grounded in individual rights human equality certain features of the political order like the rule of law due process constitutional governments those features of liberal politics are what they're rejecting especially the individual ism and the equality of it you raise the issue of how this liberalism relates the term undemocratic that's it when you take aim at human equality that we're all equal individuals who possess certain rights that's also the basis not just of say a liberal judicial order but the foundation of democracy one person one vote that's rooted in individual equality that is what they're rejecting they're saying that actually they know better that the key is to implement the highest good the order they think is true and just we were talking about how abstract a lot of the illiberal formulation Zar and how they play out in the real world can you connect some of those dots sure I can try connecting the dots is difficult sometimes because we're talking about abstract. Ideas it's not always fair to take something written in an essay and 1st things and point immediately to something on the ground but it's worth asking how ideas and arguments at a fairly high intellectual level condition us to accept certain things that language of acceptance in permission is how I would connect the arguments to the on the ground realities you're not going to hear a lot from these people about the kids in cages the elections in Kentucky won by a Democrat when the Republican legislature said well we might actually install the Republican candidate is the governor you're not going to hear the kinds of intellectuals we've discussed point to that and say that's not good you're not going to hear them say maybe it's a problem that a presidential candidate can win millions fewer votes and still take the office so the undemocratic moves we're seeing on the ground it's not that they always explicitly affirm them it's that they create the conditions in which they're tolerated that they're talking in ways that downplay democracy and the rights we all have and when they reject something like liberal procedural ism you used air quotes then right what does that mean that if you are from the wrong group you don't get your day in court you don't have certain protections you can be arrested or deported at the whims of a president what does it actually mean of course there are problems with liberalism someone on the left I have my own critique of mainstream liberal politics. 2 but the total rejection of it trying to go behind is extremely were behind it what do you mean. The valorization of older more traditional forms of community before women were treated as fully realized human beings before people had any kind of rights at all. Toxic mess. Is a kind of missed out. The blueprint for democracies democracies this is on the media. And the media is the ported by Progressive insurance providing tools designed to help customers consider options for multiple insurers comparisons available at progressive dot com or 1800 progressive Now that's progressive and by Qatar in productions presenting who will write our history a documentary about a secret band of journalists in the worst ghetto risked everything so the truth would survive even if they did not more and who will write our history. And this is 89.3 p.c.c. I'm Tammy California's March 3rd presidential primary is coming up fast and write it 5 was the filing deadline for candidates who want to run for state assembly state Senate or Congress over the next few weeks county election officials and the secretary of state's office will verify signatures an approved ballot designations as usual the occupation candidates list next to their names on the ballot Sam Hurd with the secretary of state's office says they'll also hold a random alphabet drawing to determine the candidates order on the ballot and so then on December 26th we will release the final certified list of candidates and that will include all the candidates their parties and their approved designations as they will appear on the March 3rd 2020 primary if an incumbent decides not to run for reelection the filing deadline extends to December the 11th It's $1043.00 some of the panelists are Wait Wait Don't Tell me our flight ready to get on the Mir people to judge bandwagon he's the person at the high school party talking to your parents. I'm back and Peter Sagal we're inviting all of you over to our place this weekend it should be a Ranger join us for a wait wait don't tell me the news quiz from n.p.r. This morning at 1189.3 k.p.c. See. They say is on the media I'm Bob Garfield and I'm Brooke lads down with Matthew Sigman an editor at common weale co-host of the Know Your Enemy podcast a couple months after 1st thing is published against the dead consensus it followed up with a piece by New York Post op ed editor Saul Robb a moderate one of the 15 behind the original manifesto this one was titled against David French's and David French as in editor at the dispatch constitutional lawyer noted never Trumper and according to him Ari an ideological dinosaur David French stands in for the old consensus in a way that did embrace classical liberalism in the broadest sense of what that term means it at least recognize that people of individual rights and that the procedures and institutions of the American political system were supporting because even if you didn't get your way all the time you could fight in the court system for your rights it's notable that French is a long time litigator on behalf of religious liberty causes religious liberty if I can boil it down I think I don't have a right to say who you can marry but you don't have a right to force me to bake a cake for your wedding I think David French is still against same sex marriage but in general it is a more a live and let live philosophy you let me practice my religious faith the way I want I don't have to bake that cake my religious institution gets to hire who it wants and so on but the flip side of that is a recognition that other people have rights the article that you mentioned that sort of Marty wrote against David French ism he was taking aim both that that substantive view and the kind of civility and niceness of David French that article was occasioned by a drag reading at a public library in California that m r e saw an ad for on social media either Twitter Facebook. So people in drag were reading to children at a public library and it was kind of oh the horror they often drop a 100 and some children and it isn't right and it is them on it because by the description of the organizers themselves it aims to quote from a glamorous unabashedly clear role model for kids this caused it to snap and was the immediate cause of the article you just referenced because I'm our existence no that's wrong and it shouldn't happen and David French says well you can't ban certain groups of people from using public libraries in this way you cannot take these things on a case by case basis and establish rules it's a free speech for me and not for the because then you better be sure that the meat is always in charge and in this country the meek will not always be in charge but Amare says if you let people have those rights you are normalizing things that are profoundly wrong right I loved that he was worried about normalizing things it ends up being a again a very good way into this approach that the new post from conservatives are taking because I'm Ari described politics there as defeating the enemy reordering the public square to the common good and ultimately the highest good capital h. Capital g. Now I'm Ari is a convert to Catholicism so what he means by that is that our public political life should point us toward our final spiritual and as for the descriptors so began the enduring Mari French debate I would define David French ism as a program for negotiating Christian retrieve from the public square into as save private sphere that over. Eating at rest of the bullets would have us retreat into and I'm not prepared to retreat and so I was they've been. You know my approach from the beginning has been to aggressively off incidentally but not offensively often simply use the interests of little Islam to expand the place of Christians and places that do not want Christians there and so the idea that I am in any way shape or form an agent of retreat or surrender is completely false it's a product of this weird Trump era this is that I'm an agent of surrender unless I get on board with him no I just have a new in the me in him also and. New York Times op ed writer Ross Douthat said that it was actually a full employment bill for conservative pundits I think it caught on the way it did because it condense the debates happening on the right immigration economics foreign policy there's a lot of pieces to it but this very helpfully reduced it to 2 symbols a Mari standing in for one view and French standing in for another and this was a debate that everyone wrote about yet it or a 1st things are Rino he said that the animating spirit of this pro Trump branch of conservative intellectuals is that something else is needed besides just classical liberal limited government commitments but they don't have any certainty about what that something ought to be they don't know really what they want right that's been one of the most notable features of these debates and arguments roiling on the right is what do those who are against that consensus actually want for example after a Mari published his piece against David French ism I believe it was Jane cosin a. Or for vox who asked him what do you want and one of the examples he gave was longer paid maternity leave now I'm sorry when I read you saying that politics is about enmity and war and reordering our politics to the highest good I don't think that means longer paid maternity leave he wants more women to stay at home in writing and he does what they're paid to turn a delete but those small bore minor policy fixes are not matching the rhetorical force of the way they're writing so I think they had been about cool about what they want they believe home matters they want a country that works for workers they reject attempts to compromise on human dignity but it is awfully Carol you're right say when it comes to American workers and the note of economic populism they hit at least rhetorically what you don't see is them talking about a certain health care system about a living wage or a higher minimum wage this is where I do become more cynical for instance Marco Rubio gave a speech at the Catholic University of America in Vail laying his new economic vision on the political right where I come from we've become defenders of the right of businesses to make a profit from the right of shareholders to receive a return on their investment and the obligation that people have to work all these things are true. But we have neglected the rights of workers to share in the benefits they create for the employer. And we've neglected the obligation of businesses to act also in the best interest of the workers and ultimately of the country that have made that success possible. You know this happens every few years compassionate conservatism Sam's Club Republicanism when Paul Ryan a few years ago was trying to talk about poverty a lot they're always trying to rebrand and they're particularly ghoulish version of right wing economics now you. I think in a speech where you're trying to tap into some of the discontent out there they know that homeownership is nowhere in sight and then Already they want to move out of home but rents going to be about 55 to 60 percent of whatever you're going to maybe . They're angry at a system that has rate has been rigged against them and rigged against them. By the very people who created every single one of these problems may cause a catastrophic financial crisis and left us with this disorder the economy. But he didn't mention unions at all he didn't talk about a higher minimum wage so what are they actually doing from a. My sense is that a lot of the economic populism really is a way of doing the culture wars in a different area so the focus would be on immigration and keeping out those who might so-called take jobs from American workers rather than actually implementing the policies that would force corporations to behave differently that would take more money from the extremely rich to fund social services and programs that help working middle class families I've been calling them you know the dead consensus guys but really I should call them advocates of illiberal ism right yes and I think they would embrace that term they are critics of liberalism when we talk about the illiberal right they believe increasingly and especially under the Trump presidency that the ends justify the means it's what you give yourself permission to abide by it's what you're willing to overlook or in the case of immigration what you're willing to just not talk about says simply the higher good becomes the justification for the kinds of behavior you would have been obligated to reject kind of justify the creation of an authoritarian state. I would hope not if you are a believing Christian who believes in the highest good that should determine not just the ends but the means but I think in practical politics that gets lost when you look back to recent conservative history even a magazine like 1st things under its former editor Richard John Newhouse who was a conservative Catholic priest they ran a symposium in the 1990 s. About the judiciary and Democratic political life they were extremely concerned that the judiciary was imposing liberal values what was interesting about it was not the conservatives disagreed with liberal judges that's to be expected but what they did was say these liberal judges are thwarting to mock Recy the majority really does believe what we do there is a moral majority they use the language of democracy against liberal elites today they are no longer speaking the language of a democratic majority of the people being with them they're saying we must crush our enemies they've moved from that Defense of Democracy to saying we want to get our way because we are right we know what the highest good is that move from democracy to simply saying we're right is the essential thing because nowhere in so about Marreese piece does he say I really think most people are with me he says no we must recount here the public square in order to the highest good you don't see any of these intellectuals really appealing to democracy in the way a majority was and vote in the symposium I referenced in the 1990 s. They think they're entitled to power but they also are not grappling with the fact that they might not really have a majority behind them there hasn't been a poll taken that suggests that they do right so we know Trump won 3000000 fewer votes than Hillary Clinton we know that due to gerrymandering and assaults on voting rights Republicans have more representation in Congress the. They should based on the amount of support they have we know that our political institutions are fairly undemocratic especially the Senate and the Electoral College you can see a situation arising in which Republicans keep trying to hold on to power despite not being a majority and my concern is that these conservative intellectuals are creating the conditions or giving themselves permission to go along with what amounts to authoritarianism by a political party that doesn't have anywhere close to the support of a majority of Americans in your podcast you quoted from Damon Linker who's a former editor at 1st things yes well and now a moderate Yes he wrote. When social conservatives thought that they were the moral majority it made sense for them to dream of exercising real political power when they recognized that they were a minority it made sense for them to resign themselves to adopting a defensive posture and preparing to live out their days in a country as dissenters from the reigning liberal consensus what makes no sense is for social conservatives to think that they can be both weak and strong at the same time a minority that wields the power of a majority unless of course social conservatives no longer care about democracy. He put it very well and that's a apps summary of my concerns that I'm expressing. That the key is to implement the highest good to implement the order they think is true and just look good and the ways you get there matter less. Matthew thank you very much thank you very much for having me I really had fun talking with you not to use it man is an associate editor of common wheel and co-host of Know Your Enemy a podcast about the American right and we will link to the relevant episode on our website on the Media dot. That's it for this week's show on the media is produced by Casanova Burgess Micah Lowe injured player fettered John had a right hand and us the child of Betty we had more help from Charlotte Gartenberg add our show was edited by our technical director is Jennifer Munson our engineers this week were samphire and. Had to Rogers is our executive producer on the media is a production of n.y.c. Studios on for plants and. On the Media is supported by the Ford Foundation the John s. And James l. Knight Foundation and the listeners of w n y c radio and this is 89.3. Coming up after the news at 11 is Wait Wait Don't Tell me a comedian alley Wong plays not my job that's just ahead of the umbrella handy about a 70 percent chance of showers throughout most of the southland to the rest of the day to day highs in the low to mid sixty's storm expected to break up overnight with sunny skies tomorrow 2019 is almost over and the news won't slow down. Give the gift of journalism to your community by making a tax deductible donation to. Give now. 89.3 p.c. See. News. This is a 9.3 p.c.c. Pasadena Los Angeles a community service of Pasadena City College you can claim your place in the workforce of the future with over 100 specialized certificate programs learn more at Pasadena dot edu. It is hard to live in interesting times but as we found out this week sometimes interesting to. Talk about the lectures we got instead of the action we crave plus comic and actor alley one allows us to be maybe plus Bill Kurtis remembers the 1st time hosting the show you just watched his teen drug drop to the floor who really bombed. Right after this hour's news. From n.p.r. News in Washington. The f.b.i. Says it's still trying to determine what motivated a 21 year old Saudi Air Force trainee at the naval base in Pensacola Florida to open for fire Friday he killed 3 people before he was shot and killed Special Agent Rachel Rojas says the f.b.i. Is investigating the incident as an act of terrorism we are as we most active shooter investigations work with the presumption that this was an act of terrorism . Take advantage of an investigative technique that can help us more quickly identify and then eliminate. Any additional potential threat. She also says the shooter legally purchased the gun he used. Massive pro-democracy demonstration was held in Hong Kong today this time it was authorized organizers put the number 880-0000 the police estimate is far lower but either way it was a huge turnout and Annamarie evidence reports it sent a clear and mostly peaceful message to the Beijing backed government in 2 incidents in the early evening both the high court and the court a final appeal had fires set at that entrances there was also some vandalism of shops but overall the protest was peaceful The turnout was a clear signal to chief executive Cameron that the protesters want an independent investigation into alleged police brutality and steps to universal suffrage among other demands during the evening they were escalating tensions between launch groups of riot police facing off against mosques and anti-government protest as and police cordoned off several.