Insect season and for many of us it's a reminder of what pests they can be but my guest is here to remind us of how essential insects are to our survival buzz sting bite why we need insects is the name of a new book by ants for drip by guests and a professor of conservation biology at the Norwegian University of Life Sciences She's also a scientific advisor at the Norwegian Institute for Nature Research She studies the role of insects in trees and forests but in her book she writes about all kinds of things pertaining to insects from their varied shapes sizes and sex lives to their unusual powers that designers are trying to mimic in various forms of architecture and technology for example dragonflies provided the inspiration for drones and fagots and welcome to Fresh Air I want to start by talking about one of the most detested of all insects and that is the cockroach I have never heard a defense of the cockroach that made me grateful for its existence but you write about a potential life saving with by way of harnessing one of the cockroaches greatest gifts although I thought let's start there. What might. Help us in the future. The thing with cockroaches is that they are incredibly good at moving around they can move at high speed and they can get through different sort of hindrances crawl over things come through things and researchers have been trying to make use of that so that cockroaches can actually come to your rescue if you're trapped inside a collapsed building or a building with a lot of pollution of some kind like radioactive pollution I what they do then is to look back pack on the cockroaches and they attach it to the antennas onto the back of the cockroach by using tiny electrical triggers think can remotely control several cockroaches and send them into a building and in that way they can map the remains of the building and they can also have a microphone there in this little backpack so that if people are trapped in there and they are you know crying for help this can be recorded and the people that are trying to rescue they can come to the rescue right to the spot where people are trapped that's the idea that's pretty remarkable has it been done no it's on the research. It's being researched in the u.s. Actually and what might happen then is that you know the robotics to get Knology might catch up with the true and real cockroaches before this is really put to use because they are also being used as models for small robots that can you know use the same technique of running quickly coming through collapsed spaces so maybe they will be like a big group of robotic cockroaches that you'll see instead of the great suggested scientists have found a good use for cockroaches they're going to be replaced by robots and just become pets Ok. Well they still have inspired the robots though with so we can give them a bit of credit for that you know right all right you make a convincing argument that in. Sex are a healthy and sustainable food that might make a good alternative to beef in fact you call insects mini livestock. What are their selling point yes as a nutritious sustainable food. They are really high in protein like a certain type of insects can constrain almost 70 percent protein which is extremely high your normal beef would be in the 20 percent something and this means that if good security perspective they can be really important so the United Nations have spent quite a lot of time researching insects fast food especially for for children and also for pregnant women that contineu that far from their home they can be really important as a source of protein in certain communities and countries around the world and even in the West of course we could eat insects if we wanted to as sort of in the alternative to meat and they also produce very little dung or methane there are other sort of remains that we don't want to deal with. Like real life stock who produce a lot of down Yeah exactly so when you talk about eating insects you're not talking just about like you know fried grasshopper or something you see it more as insects being for instance ground into flower. Yes definitely I mean you wouldn't either sheep with us so of course also with insects they become much nicer to eat if you actually turn them into some food stuff that doesn't look like a complete insect with legs and wings taking out and I think that's the way to go you can make protein bars for instance or biscuits or something and I think that that is interesting too to farm insects us on the alternative to meat as a source of protein I guess especially in the era of climate change where we're really conscious about methane gas is being released into the atmosphere since insects don't release that much methane Oh it's not there and also the fact that the life stock that we eat they take up a lot of the freshwater resources of the world I mean the grazing areas are enormous the could partly be used for producing plant food for humans instead drawing down on our meat consumption is it's one thing that would help the climate issue so and maybe insects is one sort of a step towards a more vegetarian diet when you talk about eating insects there's also the yuck factor of the people think it's you know really disgusting to think about eating insects have you actually eaten food that has ingredients from insects. Yes several times but usually you don't even taste it if it's mixed into you know like cookies or cake or bread or whatever it is you want to even notice it's there but of course if you taste them I mean someone checks would use ants for instance with this sort of. Like citric taste that really adds a flavor to the food I've eaten that too. And I think that's completely fine it's at least. It's a bit comparable to eating sushi in a way I think because when sushi came along most of us thought it was a bit strange to eat raw fish it's not something that we were that used to in the West. But then it just took a few years and then it has switched completely I mean now everybody is eating fish you know no one thinks that's strange anymore so maybe insects can be the new sushi and if you years. There is a vast number of insects on our planet you read that there's quadrillions so I had to look up what is a quadrillion. I thought quadrillion was similar to good Julian there was basically like a made up word to mean like more than. But it's actually one with 15 zeroes afterwards which is a lot of zeros there's more than one could really an insect on the planet like right now maybe as much as 10 quadrillion. Yeah it's an enormous number I think it makes more sense to count that Perth human if we say that for for you and for me and for everybody who's listening there is 200000000 individual insects for each of us and that's the way it is for all people on this planet when the least you can sort of grasp the number. It is a lot and they come in so many different shapes. You know race of living. And that's what what I think is so fascinating and that's why I think people should know a bit more about them. Insects existed long before dinosaurs Is that why they look like they're from another world hey yeah maybe that is true they've been a lot around for a very long time more than 450000000 years and 450000000 years they were the only type of organism that could fly. Because I mean this was so of course before we had birds before we had bats before we had any sort of flying dinosaurs so they were a sort of ruling in the air the really only flying organism for the 650000000 years and this is one of the reasons why we have so many varieties they have had a very long time to evolve into all these incredible fascinating creatures that we see today well let's take a short break here and then we'll talk some more if you're just joining us my guest is and Sverdrup thugs and she's the author of the new book buzz sting bite why we need insects We'll be right back this is Fresh Air the death penalty is a controversial political issue especially during presidential elections we'll look at how capital punishment has played out in past campaigns this afternoon on All Things Considered from n.p.r. News. An 89.3. K. P.c.c. Supporters include the Conrad n. Hilton Foundation working to improve the lives of disadvantaged and vulnerable people throughout the world learn more at Hilton Foundation dot org This is Fresh Air and if you're just joining us my guest is an Sverdrup fagots and she's the author of the new book buzz sting bite why we need insects She's a professor of conservation biology at the Norwegian University of Life Sciences in spite of the fact that there are quadrillions of insects on our planet right now there are warnings of a coming insect apocalypse are we killing off insects in large numbers. Most likely we are thing is that nobody has really cared that much about looking or counting or keeping track of the insects what we do have today. Is a number of local studies from very different environments from that agricultural landscape of Germany from a tropical forest in proto Rico in the Caribbean for instance showing really dramatic decline in insect numbers declines in 3040 years down to only 25 percent of the numbers that was 30 years ago in Germany and even worse in proto Rico and these numbers are really really scary but we don't have enough data or enough information to to know or to say what the global status is for insects. But it does make a lot of sense I mean we have changed the places where they used to live we have removed a lot of flower minnows dead trees in forests which is actually sounds strange maybe but it is a very important place for insects to live many insects are like janitors out there in nature they clean up dead things like the cockroaches do nature like a lot of beetles do and also other insects and many of those will live inside dead trees that are down then lying on the ground they re circulate these these nutrients and turn them into for time so again so they're doing a really important job although we don't think much about that. Is climate change affecting the insect populations. One of the things that is really scary with climate change is this risk of ecological mismatch which means for instance if you think of insects pollinating flowers you will need the flowers to be flowering at the same point of time as the insects are swarming as the insects are out flying right and if one of these processes are governed by temperature like say that insects will swarm when there's a certain temperature why maybe the flowering of the plants are more governed by daylight. And then you can imagine when without climate change now we are changing to temperatures but we are not changing they like ours and this means that these processes can move apart each and what happens them if the flowers are flowering at a stage where the insects are not flying yet or the birds have chicks. Needing insects for for food at its point of time when the insects are not flying and these things I think it's it's really scary and this can be one of the reasons why like in this study from proto Rico they also found. Quite substantial decline in the number of insect eating birds in these 40 or 3040 years that they have been in between these 2 studies which makes a lot of sense because. I mean insects eating birds would depend on insects in order to survive and then we understand that if insects are declining birds will decline freshwater fish will decline bats will decline some mammals will decline and if this. Ripple effects that is one of the things that we might see happening if this insect the Cline is continuing and if it's like a global trend you know I can easily see how insects are an essential part of the natural world and the natural environment how they break down wastes in decaying things in forests and wooded areas how they pollinate flowers and give us honey and all that great stuff but what about the cities in cities it's hard to think of insects as anything but pass you know cockroaches bed bugs the mozzie your clothing in your closet. What are the ants that invade your kitchen they're in our food in our kitchens they're in our food in restaurants so they're just seen as a source of like spreading filth into into food. Yes of course I mean the fly can definitely bring germs from from other places if it lands on your food I mean it is a fact that there are a few insights there are brother some to us there are a few insects that can you know harm us like a mosquito transmitting malaria but I think still it is important to remember that these problems some insects they make up such a tiny tiny tiny proportion of all the insects that are out there. All the others they are doing good stuff for us they are actually saving your life a little every single day doing all these pollination cleaning up things being food for others and they also in many ways can inspire us think about the fruit fly which is sort of considered both are some I guess in in your kitchen but they are actually one of the most important animals in research because it's easy to keep. The lab they multiply very readily and we've known and it's general all the d.n.a. We have a good knowledge of the d.n.a. And. We've had that since 2000 and that means there is a lot of research that can be done on fruit flies that is highly relevant to humans and to human health we've learned a lot about the way the traits are inherited for instance about development early development. About chromosomes. Also completely different things like insomnia and alcoholism is things that has been studied in proof life that is relevant for humans because whether you like it or not you actually do share quite a lot of your genes with 1st vice and that's why it's relevant to use fruit flies to learn more about humans so human d.n.a. And fly d.n.a. Have a lot of similarities. Yes it's this one study on the looking into deceased triggering genes finding that about 70 percent of them we actually share so. There is that frankly more common ground than with him I think. That's just one example of how insects can can inspire us or. Give us knowledge or products or ideas that we can can use and. In medicine or in architecture and lots of different parts of life we are inspired by insects and the way they live there's another insect I want you to tell us about and I found this one kind of bizarre It's a parasitic wasp that makes its home in a cockroach and then takes over control of the cockroach. And what's the Aspen How does it manage this feat. Yeah this is sort of this is a very fascinating example. Let's call it a cockroach wasp and when the female cockroach wasp finds a cockroach he will actually staining its 1st one time to just make it not run away just for a short while and then she will think it again this time in the brain and she will use her Avi Pazner to her to see things the cockroach emplaced tiny brain and she will inject. A neurotoxin exactly 2 very very specific points in the brain of the cockroach and that is not a very big thing mind you and what she does then is to sort of take away their free will of the cockroach and that is important because the cockroach is much bigger than the wasp and the post needs the cockroach to walk on its own 6 legs to these grave that she has prepared underneath the ground a little little hollow a little opening underneath the ground she can grab the cockroach by the antenna. And then she can walk it like you will walk a dog on the leash and she will just walk it along the round into this grave chambre beneath the ground and the cockroach will just have a sort of no will of its own so it will just follow it will walk straight into its own death because them. The wasp will lay a little egg on its leg. The egg turns into a larva but chooses way into the cockroach and sort of eats it from the inside and out saving the vital organs and to the end the so that it will have fresh meat as long as it needs but then in the end the Wasp has eaten its fill it will puke right and the cockroach will die and then from this that cockroach is sort of a strange you know Bird of Phoenix way you will have a new cockroach wasp coming out instead ready to start this all over again. Crazy. Yes it is quite crazy. Thank you so much for talking with us thank you. And is the author of buzz sting bite why we need insects She's a professor of conservation biology at the Norwegian University of Life Sciences she spoke to us from. After we take a short break we'll hear from Lisa Hannah Walt She's the creative designer of the Netflix series Bo Jack horseman which is nominated for an Emmy for Outstanding animated program she's also the creator of the Netflix animated series toucan and Bertie This is Fresh Air. The new of our Family Foundation supports w.h.y. Was fresh air and its commitment to sharing ideas and encouraging meaningful conversation support for n.p.r. Comes from this station and from Cape in support of the David Gilkey and Sabila tomato memorial fund established to strengthen N.P.R.'s commitment to training and protecting journalists in high risk environments. And from the estate of Joan De Kruk whose bequest serves as an enduring investment in the future of public radio and seeks to help n.p.r. Produce programming that meets the highest standards of public service in journalism and cultural expression. This is 89.3 news authorities are still searching for why a 19 year old opened fire on a Gilroy Garlic Festival yesterday the shooting killed a 6 year old boy a 13 year old girl and a man in his twenty's 12 others were injured officials say but they believe many more people would have died if the officers hadn't stopped the gunman so quickly at a press conference this morning Mayor Rowland Velasco thanked local law enforcement who in the middle. Of a chaotic situation acted quickly and professionally. To engage the shooter and to end the threat before. People could be and. Officers responded in less than a minute the police chief says when the 19 year old gunman turned his a k $47.00 type gun on them 3 officers fired back and killed the shooter police say the gun was purchased legally in Nevada on July 9th in a tweet governor Newsome called the bloodshed nothing short of horrific and said he was grateful for the quick police response a manhunt is underway for the killer of l.a.p.d. Officer Juan dÃaz the 24 year old was off duty with his girlfriend and 2 of her brothers Saturday when he reportedly confronted someone writing graffiti on a wall in Lincoln Heights Police say a group of men opened fire at Dia's killing him and wounding another person who is listed in stable condition the l.a.p.d. Says Dia's had been with the department for 2 years and was last assigned to the professional standards bureau more than 100 people gathered for a vigil Saturday night in front of l.a.p.d. Headquarters It's week 2 of the 2nd summer heat wave in the Southland highs will remain in the ninety's in the valleys by the weekend temps are expected to hit 100 again in Woodland Hills Meanwhile highs today 96 in Woodland Hills and Saugus 89 in Burbank I'm happy. News. This is Fresh Air I'm Terry Gross the Netflix animated series Tuka and Bertie has a look that's similar to another Netflix animated series Bo Jack horseman That's because Lisa Hanna Walt the creator of toucan and Bertie is also the creative designer of Bo Jack but took and Bertie is very much its own show and reflects Hannah waltz more absurd style there are strange plant headed people subways are either snakes or caterpillars depending on whether they're express or local trains buildings have breasts the main characters are 230 year old birds who are best friends living in bird town the show follows them as they negotiate jobs and love interests the onset of adulthood and some surprisingly serious issues like sexual harassment and abuse comedian Allie Wong voices the character of Birdie an anxious song thrush with an office job who's just moved in with her boyfriend speckle played by Steven yon Tiffany had issues the voice of to cut an irrepressible 2 can who's not interested in holding down a job settling down or really doing anything that even has a whiff of adulthood about it Lisa 1st started drawing Tuka and Bertie in her comics she has 2 collections of her work called my dirty dumb and hot dog taste test as well as a standalone comic called Coyote dog girl Hannah waltz spoke with fresh air producer Sam Briger they started with a clip from Tuka and Bertie Duca has just gone on her 1st date since becoming sober and it did not go well. I wasn't ready for tonight I've never not been drunk on a date before this your 1st date since you've been sober Yeah and it was so much easier when I drank glug glug glug sushi bar a bar berthing. But now now off feel so exposed. I mean I was cool with some like deli flirting but then but then I pressured you I thought you were in love with him in love with him I don't even know I was up to calling him deli guy on that I kept trying to text you how I felt and I completely misinterpreted all of your texts I'm sorry I pushed you so hard I've been so caught up in my own issues for years me. And so the sex book didn't help Nope but it's not just sex or speckle it's just I can't quite put my finger on it I mean I love speckle I have a big job I'm alone I'm missing pay at least this is nice though yeah it is. Who 2 has. And that's a scene from the Netflix anime the show 2 can birdie starring Tiffany had an ally Wong and my guest is Lisa Hanna Walt who's the creator and showrunner for the show Lisa and of all welcome to Fresh Air thank you for having me so there's a little visual gag at the end of that where to go flashes the street and Birdie and such is about to flash the street but because of her personality she she gets it actually doesn't. So I like you to describe the world that Touga and Bertie live in before the show you were the production designer for the Netflix Jack horseman and so like there are some similarities in how the shows look but the worlds are completely different your the world of bird town which is the world of 2 can birdie is more absurd and surreal. Yeah Byrd town is like a cross between New York l.a. Mum by and my own dreams and nightmares. So it's a lot more surreal than Bo Jack like there's buildings with boobs on them there's trains that look like snakes and slugs depending on how fast they are which makes sense to me and objects can come to life and talk if it makes sense for them to do so there's a lot more surrealism in this world young people's words can become concrete if you know it's interesting because a lot of animated shows like they seem to have a logic to them about like how they're willing to bend the rules of the physical world you know like they'll be shows like only animals can talk but plants can't talk but your world seems much looser than the. Yeah there's walking talking plant people in my world because why not that's just like fun to me whereas Jack has much stricter rules about how the universe works so you won't see like a dog man walking a dog but in my world you will that's right and so you are you just willing to I guess there's no rules to break we're just willing to do whatever it takes to tell the story is that how it works kind of it really comes down to a gut feel about whether in that moment it makes sense for the story and also sometimes it's just whether it made me laugh really hard so like there is a character called ultra Sam the ultrasound machine and that character it's it really is an ultrasound machine but it comes to life in a way that just made me laugh so hard that I had to keep it in there watch I have that clip ready go this is a scene where to go has this cramp in her side and she's afraid of going to the doctors for various reasons but she's finally in so much pain and she has a sort of thing hanging out of her side that she goes to the doctor and she's there in the emergency room when a doctor comes in so let's hear that clip Hello I'm Dr Sherman I'm here to exam are you going to cut me up because so much do you have someone else tell me tell me why . You're nervous. I'm. Ultra Sam the ultrasound machine I've been programmed to comfort you we try to teach doctors empathy but it didn't take don't worry everything's going to be Ok that's what birdie would have said she's program the comfort me at least she was now as she talks about as Irish butter the cultured cream enhances the flavor as to get good news the doctor is almost done looking inside you nothing to worry about she's just going to confer with some colleagues and try to help you let's cut the needle plug in my wife she's right over there she's a laugh she's so much more you're not seeing her in the best good light. Oh she would. Cherish those you love to cry you never know when they become disconnected from your life so please click there. So that weird turns out to be cancer sometimes life gives you cancer and you make you can circle and say Ok we need to get some x. Rays are you going to be a big girl or do you need a robot. So talk about writing that scene where that come from originally came from a photo I took at a hospital when I went for a doctor's exam and it was of 2 x. Ray machines side by side and they just looked like brothers to me. And one of the exact producers Steve Cohen kept bringing it up to me like it's so weird that you took this photo like it almost seems like that should be a part of the show so I brought it up in the room and we just started joking about what you know a talking machine would would sound like and I also really like joking about doctors who lack empathy because I think that's a real problem and it kind of explains partly why I had to because character is so afraid of doctors and didn't want to go to the hospital in the 1st place like a lot of women have trouble being taken seriously by doctors when they have pain so it kind of it's a joke that ties back to a serious issue I care about do you see faces in adamant objects a lot like do you go around and Person of the objects in your life only when I'm really bored or anxious like maybe it's a defense mechanism like especially when I'm at the dentist I see faces everywhere . Maybe some. So you say that oftentimes women feel like they're not taken seriously by their doctors do you have that experience Yeah I have like I went to a doctor for like stomach pain and he just wanted to put me on antidepressants and like I'm sure that would help in some ways but that isn't actually like tackling the source of the problem. So that's just kind and I just station of the pain in some ways that it doesn't help yeah and i like I'm sure that that's connected like the got in mind are very intricately connected but I'm like I don't want to just take a pill like I want to lake actually figure out what I should be eating and stuff and he just kind of like dismissed it like oh you know you have i.b.s. Or whatever and like just kind of one of those like diagnosis it just kind of covers like well we don't really quite know what's going on with you but here well let's talk about a scene that actually your and this is episode 2 I believe and Bertie's felt that a male coworker who's up with actually a rooster coworker named Dirk has said some inappropriate things to her and Bertie hasn't been able to get any help from the Human Resources goos who you play who seems to equate sexual harassment with flirtation she in to take it on themselves to organize a sexual harassment Sandeman are at the office so I just wanted to play the scene and you're the 1st one as we hear and the your character doesn't seem to have much of a grasp on sexual harassment Wow I wasn't super prepared for that spawn I'll start with the band sax I hear hear can tell me which parts of the stall it's Ok to whistle at. What's the plan now I don't know I thought I would feel so guilty during this meeting he confessed deception harassing me oh you pure hard to dump me now if we kissed without consent maybe with a little bit of tongue Do we really need to use the word assault seems harsh. Ok hi i feel like we have a problem with sexual harassment in this office and I want to talk about it yeah yeah the storytelling part comes after I do my condom down Jack what you said to me yesterday made me uncomfortable. I was just kidding around. No way I'm sorry if my joke hurt your feelings he's been here to meet you. Want. I mean I am a goose when I play ball guy made me think about my own. Bodies are terrible oh let's not get into a mob mentality here I think you should pack your things and leave the office for the day 6. So you can you talk about creating that scene I mean one of the things I really love about the show is that you get to some serious issues you're dealing with it on multiple levels this one particularly is mostly comedic but you can hear you're using like old school animated sound effects so just talk about how you decided to write that scene that way please. You know this was an issue that I wanted to explore but I didn't want to do it in like a preachy like manner bad sexual harassment is bad way like I think it's funny to have the character of the h.r. Lady who's just a bad feminist I think it's fun to make fun of women who get it wrong or even good feminists who have like you know like I make fun of them in that kind of wouldst meeting women taking up space meetings like it's sort of a form of feminism that seems good on the surface but maybe isn't actually helping in the real world I just think it's fun to take these really serious topics and kind of poke fun at them a little bit yeah and I think the show acknowledges the messiness of life like there's not a lot of body positivity in that crypt of of women you know they're saying like bodies or discuss thing or there's even that character who at one point says some women are body positive but not me. Because a lot of us promote body positivity but then we hate ourselves so that's just seems realistic to me right and you know it Bertie you know she conquers Dirk and the scene like she brings attention to his behavior but then he just gets sent home for one day so he doesn't really get punished for that and. A lot of consequence for his action no and then you know not to spoil it but she gets this promotion and then she kind of sits down at her desk and has to stay late at work and she's unhappy still she didn't quite It isn't really what she wanted actually in the end she thought it would make her happier and it doesn't that's seen references a earlier scene where. Bertie's left breast is so upset by Dirk's comments that it just gets up and and why. Yeah it is like the side needs a drink and I just like leave her body and brain is left with like a big hole on the side of her child and you have Aquafina that voice in the boob it's so I mean where did you come up with that idea I really like the idea of boobs that can pop off and leave your body Yeah I thought it would just be such a funny response to sexual harassment where you know sometimes people say something to you about your body that makes you wish you could just kind of take your body apart and hide it away so it really kind of came out of that feeling of shame and embarrassment. We're listening to the interview fresh air producer Sam Briger recorded with Lisa Hanna Walt creator of the Netflix animated series Tuka and Bertie She's also the creative designer of the animated Netflix series by Jack horseman We'll hear more of the interview after a break this is Fresh Air. As from downtown to Santa Monica from Riverside Ottawa will tell you what's happening here what matters to you and why it's important it's take 2 afternoons of 2.3 k.p.c. . News programming on k b c c s made possible by the Mon family foundation supporting quality reporting on critical issues for southern California. Support for n.p.r. Comes from this station and from Tire Rack family owned and operated for 40 years since 1979 tire Rock has been committed to helping people find the right tires for their vehicles more at Tire Rack dot com and from the Pew Charitable Trusts working with states to develop data driven nonpartisan solutions for complex issues more information is available at Pew Trust's dot org. This is Fresh Air Let's get back to the interview fresh air producer Sam Briger recorded with Lisa Hanna Walt creator of the Netflix animated series Tuka and Birdie and creative designer of the Netflix animated series below Jack horseman. You've talked about how you have anxiety that you've dealt with since you were a kid and it sounds like drawing was a coping mechanism for dealing with that and some of that was social anxiety did that crop up during meetings for both Jack horsemen. I mean in meetings I tend to sit in the back of the room and stay quiet and just draw the whole time you know I mean especially working on to go to Bertie I had to learn to like sit at the front of the room and actually speak up because everyone's looking to me for my opinion. You know they can just have your head down dry in those meetings I do sometimes but I can't get away with it all the time it's hard it's definitely not natural for me it's very uncomfortable for me to speak up the more people the more difficult it is I've learned to cope. How did you channel your anxiety into your art. I think it just helped me to busy my hands with something sort of calms my my mind down I now thinking like maybe I had a touch of a.d.d. Or something and that was just my way of expressing it you know I I had trouble in school paying attention to anything anyone was saying unless I was drawing or doing something with my hands at the same time and I've always been that way like I just need to fidget where you like drawing pictures of your teachers while they were trying to keep your attention but not until not until high school when I had a bit of a naughty or streak. In elementary school I was just drawing animals was there a time when like a teacher like caught you drawing and then they looked at what you were doing there was like a picture of them like a pig or a elephant or something. Not that I can remember there was definitely a college teacher I had a crush on and I would draw him all the time and he was like I can see one drawing me. I'm just going to continue. In hindsight if I go I am a little bit but I think you probably enjoy the attention you know in your book Hot Dog taste test you have the story where you are numerate your anxieties and they include agoraphobia claustrophobia and Emetophobia which I didn't know I had and it's that's one of my worst ones at the diety around vomiting and you know when I read that it was really interesting to me because it explains how it's a theme but imagery that I have seen in your art a lot where there's like a lot of things either flying out of someone's mouth or their eyes like the flying in like the cover of one of your books there's all these aircraft flying out of a dog's eyes and then even into can birdie There's a scene where Dirk the rooster like all these baby snakes come out of his mouth so I guess yeah I was wondering about the relationship between having these thoughts and then drawing them out drawing these things help you address the anxiety about those thoughts or do you just draw these images because you're thinking about them all the time it's both I think drawing can be a way of exercising those fears and for me it's a way of controlling them and you know if I make a joke about someone barfing snakes then that idea is less scary to me. Maybe it's propagates the fear even more I don't know I'm not sure that's a good question Ok I mean sometimes when I'm drawing like kind of creepy things like I draw a lot of snakes and I am afraid of snakes but I think something about drawing them in like kind of humanizing them kind of helps me you know sit with them a little longer. You clearly love horses a lot you actually have your own horse you've drawn horses for a long time you said at one point that when you grew up you were going to be famous for drawing horses. And you actually even pretended to be a horse when you were in school what years was that I stopped. When I got to middle school because my brother sat my older brother sat me down and said listen you're going into middle school now other kids are going to make fun of you if you pretend to be a horsey you're going to have to stop so I kind of I stopped doing it at school during recess but I kind of kept doing it at home on the sly for a little bit but I basically stopped around age 12 I think and would you just sort of prance around the school grounds or yeah I would gallop around on the grass like I crawled around on all fours so much that I actually had calluses like on my knees and on the tops of my feet yeah I had a cousin who loved horses when she was young and. In her backyard her parents it up like this miniature horse jumping set and then she would all day long just jump through like pretending to be a horse so I Love Her parents were doing that here but it sounds like a kind of a common thing that people who like to do so yeah it's a strange thing about horse girls is that you love horses so much that you kind of feel the need to be one Yeah I can't really explain it it's like something about our d.n.a. And you still enjoy writing yeah I do oh yeah I got my own horse like 6 months ago and I was worried that I would get sick of it I'm like well now that I'm going to the barn like 5 times a week like am I going to ruin my favorite thing by doing it too much and no that hasn't been the case at all. I'm still obsessed. Well Lisa had a lot thanks so much for coming on fresh air today thank you so much and so great to be here. Lisa Hanna Walt is the creator of the animated series Tuka and Birdie all 10 episodes are streaming on Netflix She's also the creative designer of the Netflix animated series Bo Jack horseman which is nominated for an Emmy for Outstanding animated program coming up rock critic Ken Tucker reviews the new album by Titus Andronicus This is Fresh Air. Boris Johnson is Britain's new prime minister replacing to reason may who could not deliver bricks at now in a seaside district of England so called brights the tears are cheering that one of their own is now in charge but will they forgive their new leader if he fails to make a deal to leave the e.u. It's what we have to do for democracy democracy the principle of democracy most comes on the next Morning Edition from n.p.r. News weekday mornings on 89.3 k. P.c.c. . This is Fresh Air Our rock critic Ken Tucker has a review of a new album by Titus Andronicus a band that formed in New Jersey more than a decade ago the album is called a novel ask one of their previous albums was a collection based on the history of the Civil War last year's album a productive cough was built around a series of ballads Ken says the new album has allowed or more aggressive style. Patrick Stickles lead singer and songwriter of Titus Andronicus presenting narrator who is an angry frustrated man throughout the band's new album an obvious stickle sings and writes in the voice of an impatient impetuous man who blames his own unhappiness on outward targets government religion and a pop culture devoted to satisfying immediate gratification. Here's our hero or antihero blaming a vaguely defined society. As Leg length you can hear Titus Andronicus is exploring its punk rock side these days and clocks in at a very tidy 38 minutes and has been produced by Bob Mold of who's going to frame mold knows how to frame Stickles voice within a dense thicket of guitar and drums noise on a song such as my body and me. Lead to. The. Lead. Leg. Length. Petry Stickles is coming up with novel ways to promote this new album Most impressively he's put together the pilot for a make believe sitcom called Stax you can watch it on You Tube and other places in stacks he plays a caricature of himself as a rock musician who is pained by the failure of his band to break into the big time there are some very funny moments including a super awkward interview with a music website that only leaves Patrick more convinced that he may already be a has been the music however tells a different tale the fake sitcom includes this fine song also on the new album called Trouble Man unlimited. That the music on this album sounds simple wrong well it took a lot of skill to make it seem so and the ideas behind the music aren't simple at all the troubled man Stickles in bodies is angry at the world when he ought to be looking within himself for the true source of his problems and Stickles himself seems to wonder whether anyone can truly change one's basic nature the result is a quandary that Titus Andronicus leaves unsettled even as the band's music makes its decisive impact. The new album. Tomorrow. By becoming. The death of a young African-American woman whose body. During the period. Homophobia at a time when the cultural. Towards a better. More information is available. With the federal government. We look at the issue of capital punishment. It's. And k.p.c. See you hear in-depth analysis and civil discussion about news that matters what you won't hear is political punditry and hype that's because listeners like you are k.p.c. Sees largest and most reliable source of funding and you demand high quality journalism in real discussions about the issues important to all of us your donation in any amount is tax deductible and help sustain the quality of programming you come to expect contribute now a k p c c dot org. This is $89.00 k. P.c.c. Pasadena Los Angeles it's a community service of Pasadena City College offering the p.c.c. Promise program for students who can't afford to we should learn more at Pasadena to edu. Welcome to News from the b.b.c. World Service on a jury. Today the u.n. Lawyer investigating war crimes in Iraq tells us members of Islamic state should face the same justices Nazi leaders did it. Was the 1st time in history national tried Google was to deal with atrocity crimes we'll get reaction from the last surviving prosecutors now age 99 and the Nuremberg trials. Senior member of Hong Kong's administration what it would take to ask China to send in troops to end the armrest and gun violence in Cape Town we have a report from the South African city which averages 8 murders a day that's on that say it's. Not even saving the. State it's the. Voice That's all coming up after the news. Live from n.p.r. News in Washington I'm Lakshmi saying the grounds of Northern California's popular Gilroy Garlic Festival are now a corn dog crime scene littered with personal belongings left behind by people who fled when a gunman opened fire there yesterday today police are confirming that the man responsible for killing 3 people and injuring at least 12 others is a 19 year old who snuck past security armed with an s k s assault type rifle that he legally purchase apparently in Nevada earlier this month police chief Scott Smith he says the community is trying to come to terms with the lives the gunman took before he was killed by police the victims include a 6 year old boy a 13 year old girl and a man in his twenty's I think anytime a life is lost it's it's a tragedy. When it's young people it's even worse. It seems that this was a random that but again we've got a long way to go before we come to a determination the f.b.i. Is assisting in the investigation civil rights leader Reverend Al Sharpton is responding to a disparaging tweet from President Trump on Twitter today the president called Sharpton a con man and accused him of hating whites and cops N.P.R.'s Winsor Johnson reports the feud was ignited by series of tweets from shop over the weekend that targeted the city of Baltimore and its representative in Congress in a tweet on Saturday Trump called House Oversight Committee Chair Cummings a brutal bully and called his district a disgusting rat and rodent infested mess Al Sharpton says Trump is attacking Cummings and the people of Baltimore in the most quote bigoted and racist way he has a put to kill the venom for blacks and people of color who don't refer to any of his opponents or critics as infested Trump's comments on Twitter come just weeks after a series of tweets in which he told 4 House Democrats all women of. To go back to the crime infested places they came from Windsor Johnston n.p.r. News Washington at least 52 people are dead after violence erupted inside a prison in Brazil N.P.R.'s Philip Reeves says the authorities blame war and criminal gangs the trouble began at around breakfast time and lost it all morning it happened inside a prison and ultimately a city amid the Amazon Rain Forest in northern Brazil officials say at least 16 of the dead were decapitated inmates set fires making it difficult for the authorities to get into parts of the complex 2 prison officers were reportedly taken hostage but were eventually released after negotiations deadly battles between powerful rival narcotics gangs are not uncommon within Brazil's huge prison system and some penitentiaries criminal gangs have to factor control and can easily access weapons in this case the number of dead is unusually high officials fear the death toll may yet increase but it briefs n.p.r. News this is n.p.r. And you're listening on $89.00 k. P.c.c. And now more on the Gilroy shootings the mayor says the community will come back stronger and closer after yesterday's shootings Francisco Cruz who attended the festival describes seeing the gunman I saw the. Sheriff and I thought he hit the trigger by x. Right when I saw him and everybody. Knew. He was in the police that sound courtesy of t.v. Investigators say 3 officers shot and killed the gunman after he pointed his weapon at them the police chief says investigators are still looking for a motive they're also looking into witness reports that there may have been a 2nd suspect the owner of a San Fernando Valley trucking school pleaded guilty today to siphoning more than $4000000.00 from Department of Veterans Affairs in g.i. Bill funds for classes that veteran. Never attended and that marshal of Woodland Hills and codefendant Robert Waggoner of canyon country allegedly told the veterans they wouldn't have to go to class but could still collect housing and book fees supplied by the v.a. While tuition went directly to the school the judge set Marshall sentencing for November 18th while Robert Waggoner faces trial in February sunny afternoons once the low clouds burn off temperatures through the week ranging from the seventy's the beach to the eighty's and ninety's in the valleys could get back into triple digits next weekend I'm headland heard he's k.p.c. News support for n.p.r. Comes from n.p.r. Stations other contributors include the ne ek c. Foundation developing solutions to ensure that families and communities have opportunities to create a brighter future for America's youth more information is available at 8 e.c.f. Dot org. Hello and welcome to News from the b.b.c. World Service coming to you live from London I'm Julian Marshall today the u.n. Lawyer investigating war crimes in Iraq says Islamic state members should face justice in the same way as prominent Nazis of to the 2nd world war that saw top story today also after 8 weeks the Chinese authorities comment on the arm rest in Hong Kong we speak to a senior member of the Hong Kong administration to central government's policy towards Hong Kong is talk of changed.