I history of negative balance having savings and transacting responsible Sally Taylor is scores vice president at FICA she says you have to volunteer this information willingly It's not automatic there are 53000000 people in the u.s. Who don't have a credit score students or immigrants for example this quarter what happened to another 10 to 15000000 we estimate of that 53000000 that's of course millions more people for lenders to lend to and for if I go to score Taylor also says this will raise the credit scores for some people Jack Gillis is executive director of the Consumer Federation of America the folks that will benefit the most from this of those folks who have marginal credit scores or who don't really have much credit better scores can save people money they affect your insurance your car loan your mortgage now the question for any new type of credit score though is is it accurate Jonathan Glowinski is a principal a consulting firm Milliman So it's very easy to create credit scores when the economy is going well and defaults are very low where the rubber is going to hit the road is really when we hit the next rough patch the next recession is when you find out which loans should not have been made in New York I'm sorry Ben a short for Marketplace and it always the way on Wall Street today the name is volatility We'll have the details when we do the numbers. There are in case you somehow haven't been keeping track 15 days until the midterm elections and while acknowledging that past performance is no guarantee of future results at the next 2 weeks or anything like the past couple of months who boy is a lot of political money going to be spent the Center for. Responsive Politics figures $5000000000.00 from all sources is going to wind up being spent on the 2018 congressional elections a lot of it coming from shall we say the upper end of the income distribution marketplace just An Hoa has that $11.00 of the reasons there's so much money flowing into these midterm elections is because billionaires alleging more of their cash on politicians this is something that sort of arose out of normal fortunes being made over the last few decades that Stanford political scientist Adam by nikka he found that the total wealth of the Forbes $400.00 jumped 11 fold since 1902 and the amount wealthy people spend on politics has gone up in proportion historically he says pretty clear that there is a lot more money coming from very wealthy conservatives like a senile mogul Sheldon Adelson he's worth $34000000000.00 and he's a staunch supporter of Republicans and pro Israel issues after giving Donald Trump 25000000 for his election it doesn't wash from the front row as the president celebrated the opening of an embassy in Jerusalem this year a little sin and his wife have ponied up $87000000.00 to conservative groups and candidates but lately Baucus says many billionaires are leaning another way and over time it's been trending pretty clearly towards more money going to the Democrats conservative candidates have earned more billionaire donations but data from the Center for Responsive Politics showed Democrats are catching up Baucus says that's because a lot of newer billionaires come from more liberal places like Silicon Valley Dustin Moskovitz the billionaire co-founder of Facebook gave over 5000000 to groups like Move On dot org In a group dedicated to winning Senate races others say the polarized political climate over the last 2 years has led more people in general to contribute they feel this is an emotional need for people to engage That's General Next-Gen America that's the political action committee run by one of the biggest Democratic donors Tom Steyer the hedge fund billionaire from San Francisco you might know Stier from his controversial ad campaign to impeach the president which hasn't been uniformly popular with Democrats a Republican Congress once in peace. The president drew far. Today Stiers political groups are spending $110000000.00 on liberal causes and east coast billionaires are spending a lot to Boston based hedge fund manager Seth Klarman recently announced he donate $20000000.00 to help elect Democrats after years of supporting the g.o.p. Former New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg pledged 100000000 to help elect Democrats that could prove useful as Bloomberg eyes a Democratic presidential bid in 2020 contributions like Bloomberg are pretty easy to track but then there's what's known as dark money so we're seeing the spending side but we don't necessarily know who is actually behind it in a lot of the cases anima Soliah research is dark money at the Center for Responsive Politics a huge chunk of the spending goes to advertising and depending on what the ads say she says there funders don't always have to be disclosed so it makes it hard to tell whether it's a billionaire spending or corporation or anyone else she says Democrats are collecting more dark money from donors in recent years perhaps to avoid the stigma associated with big money in politics. But she says high profile billionaires tend to operate in the open as they get Mark name recognition their groups at least get more disclosure whether that be the puzzles or their reaction to that being that they do start disclosing a bit more after all it doesn't hurt if the politicians you helped elect know that you back during the campaign in New York I'm just a no from our friends. And. One of the lessons of the financial crisis is that timing can be everything we've been doing a series this year about what the economic near collapse of a decade ago in the recession that followed it did to this economy and to the people who live and work in it it's called How We changed our series isn't today Carlos free us now the food editor at The Miami Herald but as you'll hear 10 years ago also an author in the summer of 2006 Fidel Castro got sick he disappeared from power for that stretch where he was supposed to have surgery and everybody wanted to get into Cuba. This time I was a sportswriter for the Palm Beach Post and they needed somebody on staff who spoke Spanish you know Cuban which was kind of like a bonus because you kind of understood the context and they needed it right away. It wanted me to to go to Cuba to report about Castro's handing over power and what the island looked like and while I was there I had an editor who I call kind of like the father of my writing life he said tell us the story of your family so that was it that was the opportunity to start doing. I came back and I wrote a 5 day series for the post. That was really well received and it caught the attention of a publisher at Simon Schuster and it kind of took off from there. In November of 2008 is when the book drops the other thing that drops in 2008 is all of publishing all of a sudden it became paralysed to be a writer. Unfortunately the book kind of died on the vine there was a book tour it was a Spanish version of the book neither of those things happened and it was heartbreaking to not be able to see it really find its way. Because of the economy that voice was muted if not silenced. 10 years later is a lot for an economy to change and a kind of out of the blue you know penguin gets a copy of the book in English and says we really like this and they buy the Spanish rights like I didn't see a penny from it. Which is unfortunate but the beauty of the is it opened it up to a whole new audience and like as a writer really at the end of the day all you want is for people to really write that to me was the end of that story. They got a picture of Carlos various on our Instagram work at market place and then check out his book by the way it is called Take me with you but while you're at our Instagram put it back up for a 2nd as comment let us know how the financial crisis changed you with the hash tag which are. Coming up yet as you can see it's very normal there's a lot of people around no one really bats and eyelash. Just another day delivery in Pa But 1st let's do the numbers. Well it makes on Wall Street today down dossers off about a half percent 126 points $25317.00 the s. And p. $500.00 off or 10 percent that's 11 points 24755 the Nasdaq 0 added 4 percent 1000 points up the day at 74 and 60 a big drop in financials was one reason for the mixed results Bank of America withdrew 3.3 percent Goldman Sachs and Wells Fargo which lost about 2.3 percent j.p. Morgan j.p. M. Down 1.4 percent in energy stocks were another draggers of oilfield services company Halliburton dribble down 3 percent Exxon Mobil lost about one percent or so on the plus side because you got to have some good news techs Archer's of Amazon power of 1.4 percent Twitter tripped up $1.00 and $2.00 tenths of one percent bond prices rose yield on the 10 year Treasury note fell to 3.19 or percent you're listening to more of this marketplace is supported by Western Digital everywhere data lives from personal devices to global organizations Western Digital fuels the innovation necessary for a brighter smarter future learn more at data makes possible dot com Western Digital creating environments for data to thrive and buy the financial services firm of Raymond James offering personalized wealth management advice and banking and capital markets expertise all with a commitment to putting clients' financial wellbeing 1st learn more at Raymond James dot com And by Magoo on line test prep for the a c t s a t g r e n g magic that's designed to improve scores students can get video lessons practiced questions an expert support online prep smart go far in enjoy the ride at Magoo's dot com. It's Marketplace son 89.3 k.p.c. See I'm Nick Roman coming up at 330 on the frame one t.v. Show that never mentions our current political reality but still feels right for this time he's N.B.C.'s The good place it's. As Kristen Bell and Ted Danson John Horne talked with show creator Mike sure and writer and producer Jen stats about how they weave ethics and comedy together that's coming up in 30 minutes on the Frank. Program on arts entertainment culture. Sometimes it seems like the news cycle is one big runaway train headed way to Shasta destination unknown I'm Mary Louise Kelly at all things considered we plan our daily voyage carefully and take the time to see the important sights along the way don't worry it will still get you where you need to go All Things Considered from n.p.r. News with a journey. Weekdays at 489.3 k.p.c. See. This is Marketplace I'm Cod Ryssdal You have heard perhaps of the Sinclair Broadcast Group a behemoth of a local television conglomerate the Gets attention every now and then for its top down and very conservative political agenda that winds up on the air in dozens of local markets across the country there is though a business model story that goes along with Sinclair how it got so big and so influential Chillicothe hot car one of our front regulars I should say she wrote about it for The New Yorker magazine where she is a staff writer Sheila good to talk to you great to be here Kai So maybe the place to start actually is just with a little primer on who or what Sinclair is because it's been a little while couple months anyway since this company's been in the news Sinclair is the largest owner of broadcast television stations in the u.s. And a lot of people are not terribly familiar with them the way they hear about c.n.n. And n.b.c. And other big networks Sinclair 192 stations in 89 markets so they're enormously influential they are seen by a lot of people but they're there largely outside of the coastal media bubble back up to that size thing because that is relevant in a lot of ways for the context of this article because there are regulations and and considerations about who can own what media was right right well regulation of television has changed over time and it has loosened over time by in general there are a lot of restrictions around media ownership for reasons of preserving competition in local markets and also because diverse points of view and diverse sources of news are considered to be sort of fundamental to maintaining a free and open democracy so dig down into this a little bit and give me I guess maybe the for the 1st one of these that Sinclair did back in the day was in Baltimore and explain how they got around the rules I suppose is the question I'm looking for so so what they did was they would acquire . Competitor station the f.c.c. Would say well you need to divest you need to sell one of these stations in order to comply with the regulations and the laws but then they came up with a very clever trick of the help of their lawyers and they would just simply divest the 2nd station to a shell company run by sort of a business associate or a member of the Smith family which is the family that controls in Clare you know so they would be able to say to the f.c.c. That they sold the station but in fact the station was still not really independent and then they would sign an agreement that would give them the right to supply all of the programming to the station Let's get the Sinclair response and here us them you know how did you guys get away with this in essence and they say their line has been for many years we have met all legal requirements right yes they I mean incredibly they did manage to stay within the strict interpretation of the law although they they violated the spirit of the law one could say but yes what they did was strictly legal but it was it was brazen it was pushing the line for sure so to the to the other half of that question then why did the Federal Communications Commission let Sinclair do this so many times there's no simple answer to that I mean the f.c.c. Comes under a lot of criticism for allowing too much consolidation has been a problem under both Democratic and Republican administrations they have allowed a number of enormous monopolies to form now I should say that in the late ninety's the f.c.c. Did investigate Sinclair for this sort of fraudulent divestiture strategy they ended up finding that Sinclair had violated some of these rules and they were not making good faith truly independent divestitures and they find the company racer sell for $40000.00 which is really not a lot of money to a large corporation like Sinclair a word here in defense of the Federal Communications Commission Sinclair has wanted to buy Tribune Media for a while they had a deal and just recent Well a number of months ago but recently. In relative terms the chairman the f.c.c. I did try said in essence I'm not going to let that happen the Tribune merger was sort of a fascinating little window into the business and regulatory environment that has sprung up under President Trump there was this real sense that the merger would just get waved through because Trump is a big supporter of Mr Smith and of Sinclair and he was tweeting positive statements about the company and several weeks ago i.g. Pyar now it's 12 we're not going to approve this deal we have major concerns and effectively killed the deal referred it to a legal hearing within the f.c.c. Which sort of dooms it but what we've learned since and as Sinclair was basically behaving in such a way that it was a foregone conclusion they did not even make minimal effort to appease their regulators and get their deal approved and they had had such success for such a long period of time that they figured the odds were in their favor the trick had worked in the past and a number of regulatory experts I spoke with said well it's sort of one thing to try and pull off that trick with the sham divestitures when you're a much smaller company but once you're the largest company in the country and you're about to become even larger the government's going to take a closer look and even in this incredibly friendly environment what they were trying to do was so brazen that the f.c.c. Had to put a stop to it Chillicothe staff writer for The New Yorker writing most recently about Sinclair Broadcasting Company also hearing on that front I want to. Thank you . On the theory that no one industry no matter how new or how potentially big it is is immune from disruption cast a glance now toward recreational marijuana if you would it's legal in 9 states including here in California home to what is widely expected to be the. The biggest legal recreational pot industry in the country and and this is not unrelated also home to much of the technological innovation in this economy right now David Weinberg reports on but for pot it's after dark on a Friday night a woman who goes by the name geisha is circling a luxury hotel in downtown Los Angeles she's looking for a middle aged woman with long gray hair capri pants and a pink and white checkered top player and I'm pulling up in front of the Westin where you standing she stops in from the hotel and ignores the bellhops who's trying to get her to pull forward the woman she's looking for walks up to the car and hands geisha $100.00 bill higher total is 80. Maybe a freaking hands the woman a white paper bag full of marijuana and the woman tells her to keep the change marijuana is still illegal at the federal level so transactions like this are usually cash only and these days no big deal yet as you can see it's pretty normal there's a lot of people around no one really bats an eyelash. Just another day in sunny California now a month later geisha whose real name is Mary and Co 10 is out of a job the dispensary she works for the downtown patient group suddenly stopped its delivery service they would not comment for the story but the margins for pot delivery are tight drivers are not good workers but they offer lift and state law requires them to be w. 2 employees making at least minimum wage and getting benefits and digital disruption is also changing the industry one of the state's biggest players in the delivery space is a Silicon Valley startup called E.'s we are it eases a Los Angeles headquarters in Venice Beach David Mack is the senior vice president of Public Affairs for the company raised more than $50000000.00 from investors which helps pay for this office space and a luxurious home once owned by Angelica Houston he points out employees sitting behind a wall of giant computer model. There's so the orders come through the east platform the orders are then routed to a local licensed dispensary partner once that business receives an order e's software dispatches a driver who is an employee of the dispensary not east last count I asked her earlier today there are approximately 1200 drivers with the Spencer is there on these platform one thing you'll never see at ease as marijuana the company does not have a state pot license and never touches the product to stay clear of federal law enforcement that says ease makes money by charging dispensaries a fee and taking a percentage of every sale for dispensaries the don't have a lot of foot traffic delivery can be crucial but dispensary owner Jared Carlo isn't sold he met with ease and was alarmed by the business agreement they offered so it kind of look like we're going to take every part of your business and take no risks because they don't currently hold a license so it looked like a Trojan Horse says e's only wanted to sell products it endorses and limited his access to customer data but other dispensaries see ease as an engine for growth you know back in the early days it was you know really just so we had 2 people in morning 2 people in the evening sky Siegel is a manager for perennial which now has about 170 part time drivers on its payroll since contracting with ease on the average day we service anywhere from $300.00 to $400.00 orders in Los Angeles right now and the number is growing every day now iis is lobbying for a new law that would allow drivers to sell products directly from their vehicles in Los Angeles I'm David Weinberg the marketplace. This followed on the way out today a summary from the president this morning with lots of helicopter noise in the background we should say so we apologize for that but anyway a summary of part of his most recent stump speech the part where he says he's going to get another tax cut done before the elections in 2 weeks how is he going to do that we're putting in a resolution sometime next week are we going to have to wait not for nothing but the Internal Revenue Code doesn't get changed by resolution anyway the president went on with giving a middle income tax reduction about 10 percent were doing it for middle income people this is not for business this is for middle that's on top of the tax decrease that we've already got Congress by the way which would have to pass any new tax cut is in recess until after the election which the president did finally kind of seem to get out on the top going to Congress will be cement we won't have time to do the vote of the public will do the vote after the election. Just a big yes some only come on you thought of the same thing right. Marketplace is supported by a meal prep service delivering fresh dinner kids that are table ready in 15 minutes does the prep work so you spend less time chopping and more time with family. Marketplace and by personal capital you can download the personal capital app to help you plan for retirement and see all your financial accounts in one place and I think you're providing a streamlined digital platform for home equity loans you can learn how to use the equity in your home for home improvement major purchases or tech consolidation at Figure dot com Love me some Schoolhouse Rock right we got to go down to us was off about a half percent today 126 points Nasdaq added a quarter percent 1907 p. 500 what the. Other way down for 10 percent 11 points on that particular index or deliberate action team includes Bridget bottom area Hollenhorst Sean McHenry Daisy and Phoebe undermine a special project yes. Is the producer on our Wealth and Poverty Desk result we will see tomorrow but. This is a pia. From the Mon broadcast center at k.p. This is the frame I'm John Horn on today's show transgender writers talk about getting the trans experience right on t.v. And the harm of inaccurate portrayals it perpetuates this notion that underneath our Transnet is you know something that can be taken off every visit with Mike sure and Jen stats from the good place where every episode of the sitcom has an ethics lesson I want to do a show about practically speaking how do you learn how to become a better person the response I've gotten like thank you for making a show about being good in a time where it feels like a lot of things are bad all that coming up on the frame. From k p c c news on Nick Roman with the stories we're covering at 330 assuming he's true to his word you'll be able to ride for free on Iran must new high speed tunnel transit system in exactly 7 weeks and one day that's what the boss of space x. Tesla and the boring company says on Twitter that last one the boring company has dug a test tunnel into the streets of ha Thornwood space x. Is based inside is an electric wet railway of sorts that can whiz you along at about 155 miles an hour one animated version from mosques shows what looks like subway cars that carry. Dozen or more people and one has a platform that carries your car with you inside whatever it is must says it'll be ready on December 10th for a gala grand opening that's a Monday and then Musk says he'll let you ride for free on his tunnel the next day Tuesday says he's got plans for a tunnel through West l.a. In a dug out loop tunnel that would run from the Hollywood area metro line at Red Line station up to Dodger Stadium it all depends on government and environmental approvals and money to dig the tunnels that some baseball news way but it's not about the Dodgers in the World Series the angels have named their next manager form of the Troy Tiger skipper Brad lost most 4 seasons with the Tigers that included the 2014 American League Central Division title lead go after 2017 he's been working as a special assistant to angels general manager Billy Epler since More news at 4 o'clock with all things considered it's 331 I'm Suzanne quietly all this week we're exploring the impact of Prop 13 on the next morning edition to neighbors with similar homes and very different tax bills Morning Edition weekdays till $989.00 p.c.c. . Supporters include acuity I croup with a reminder that 95 percent of blindness from diabetes is preventable when caught early at an annual eye exam more at acuity eye group dot com acuity our vision is your vision Welcome to the fray mom John Horn protesters rallied outside the White House yesterday in support of transgender rights the protest was a response to an unreleased memo by the Department of Health and Human Services to find gender based on a person's genitalia at birth essentially endangered federal recognition and civil rights protections for roughly 1400000 transgender Americans the hash tag won't be a raised has been trending on Twitter since yesterday and we decided to revisit our interview from last year with the Fosters co-creator Peter page transparent writer . Producers Zachary Drucker an actor Brian Michael Smith who plays twice on a trans cop on the series Queen sugar in the round table discussion we asked how Hollywood can use trans characters to teach people about what it means to be trans we'll start with Zachary Drucker our community I think with good reason has been galvanized because when you think about the long trajectory of trans characters in television and film we've pretty much always been relegated to the roles of victims and villains and plot twists and slapstick reveals For example there's been a lot of criticism for roles like Ray on and Dallas Buyers Club played by Jared Leto's that says male actor playing a trans woman it perpetuates this notion that underneath our transmitter is you know something that can be taken off. I should mention also that I'm a trans woman myself and I think that the lived experience that I bring to my job and transparent and all of that and our team and projects is crucial you can't just make it up and have this kind of. You know created notion of what a trans experience this life I think that the only way that our stories can be told accurately is by us Brian we live in an era where thanks to the Internet thanks to popular culture people can see people like themselves in many different places they can find resources but when you're growing up and thinking about popular culture was it frustrating that you didn't see any or any positive depictions of the person that you saw yourself ass and becoming you know at 1st it wasn't frustrating it was sad you know like what you know but it made me feel like Ok well this is something that I'm going to have to you know to write and produce and do and you know. I started to learn about my transition in early early 2000 learn that there even was a thing about transitioning out that there was transgender that exist and you know I had to act Jeeves I mean that's how far back it was like you know by now I think there was no Google there was no You Tube with all you know it was it was really nowhere to be found so I wasn't particularly looking to see this in mainstream media but you know Time passed and the Internet grew and the access to resources grew and more people started to advocate for you know more transmissibility in the work and better representation in the roles you know the work that Nick Adams had been doing and glad in the Laverne Cox bringing real stories that's when I really started to feel you know just like deeply encouraged that Ok we're moving in the right direction and this level of visibility is the kind of thing that will really change lives and maybe make people remember that trans people are people Peter Brian brought up the fact that some narratives about trans characters like any other characters are sensationalized So how do you make sure on the fosters that you don't go there how do you cast your writers room and where the checks and balances that you put in place to make sure that you're not doing something that some people might consider sensational when he mentioned God I'm so glad in every script we have that even mentions one of our trans characters go straight to Nick and who gives us really direct really clear feedback we don't actually have a trans writer in the room but we try to build our narratives out of authentic voices we try to build our narratives out of things that the stories that the trans people are actually telling us or telling the world through through print we try to be as absolutely thoughtful as we can and then the the main thing is we check ourselves and we listen and is it now more possible that you can cast trans actors in leading roles that there are more people from whom you can choose Dockery Yeah absolutely as far as casting is a minute I think that actors access you know all of the casting databases that we use are beginning to denote trans actors so there's actually easier ways to assert . I mean we do a lot of like specialty castings we look for very specific things like for example the protagonist of transparent we're trying to cast a young more a child actor and we want to transactor and finding a young trans girl to play more was you know really challenging Can I ask about my decision the idea to do that so we met more as assist male who wanted to transition that's how we came into the show so in my mind as a smell I'm thinking oh if you're casting younger more back when he was morally you would cast a spoiler but the idea being that you thought that because of Moore's transmits that the emotional authenticity would be more honored if young Morrie was trans Yeah absolutely I mean it was really a creative decision on behalf of the writers and I think our lady j. Who's also a trans woman was the writer of that episode and I think that was important for her to situate more as an adolescent as a trans person because we are virtually in our in our adolescence I mean we identify. I say that all the time oh yeah we're adults did not start out we all started out as queer kids I think I think there's been this big notion that we had a huge pushback on the Fosters when we did the youngest same sex kiss and I was like we have got to stop pretending that gay adults didn't start out as gay kids we have to stop that that's a damaging damaging lens that we're putting on the world and I absolutely understand that not only did I find it really thoughtful really fascinating I know you guys are always very thoughtful which which I so respect Well yeah I mean I think that we're also really restricted him or Proust by respectability politics right now just to kind of add on to what you're saying at the pressure something that we're kind of like harnessed by specially with trans representation because we're really starting from. New point whereas before the representations were so destructive so accurate record Peter Paige Brian Michael Smith thank you all for . Coming and talking about this incredibly important issue and giving us your time and thoughts such a pleasure to be here thank you so much for having us yes thank you. Coming up the good places the rare networks that common that can make you laugh and think. Sometimes it seems like the news cycle is one big runaway train headed away to Shasta destination unknown I Mary Louise Kelly at all things considered we plan our daily voyage carefully and take the time to see the important sites along the way don't worry it will still get you where you need to go All Things Considered from n.p.r. News to the journal. Weekdays at 4 on 89.3 k. P.c.c. . P.c.c. Supporters include triple beam pizza a Roman style pizza Ria in Highland Park from James Beard Award winning chefs Nancy Silverton and Matt Molina open daily more at triple beam pizza dot com The James Irvine foundation expanding economic and political opportunity for Californians who are working but struggling with poverty more at Irvine dot org. Welcome back to the frame I'm John Horan thanks for joining us there's one show on television that never mentions the name Donald Trump or for that matter anything related to our current political reality and yet it feels like a series that is utterly made for this time in American history the n.b.c. Show the good plays which launched in the fall of 2016 unfolds each week as a moral philosophy laws and wrapped in a t.v. Sitcom anchored by the costars Kristen Bell and Ted Danson there's actually a character named Chidi played by William Jackson Harper who is a moral philosophy professor and gives tutorials on ethics to the others and whether you realize it or not as you watch your learn. Something to we recently visited with the creator and showrunner of the good plays Mike sure and with Jen stats who is a writer and producer on the show sure created the good place after his previous series Parks and Recreation ended stats he also worked with him on that series before we began talking about how they weave ethics and comedy sure told us about a recent invitation that he'd gotten I was invited because of the philosophical discussions that take place on the good place I was invited to attend the annual conference of the National Association of Sartre scholars it is this is not a joke the highest honor I have ever received my life I could not be more excited it's it's in Fredericksburg Virginia and Iowa and Mary Washington University I'm flying there in 2 weeks with Todd May who is a professor comes in who's an advisor for the show who is actually a starter scholar so he I I when I was invited I said it's very flattering you should ideally invite one person who knows what he's talking about to this and so I've recommended Todd which it worked out perfectly because he works on the show and he knows the subject matter so the 2 of us are going to attend this annual convention and it's going to be amazing I think it's fair to say that philosophy is more than a Trojan horse in this series that in many ways if you know about philosophy and care about philosophy and care about moral arguments that you can really engage with this show unlike probably any other prime time show has that been something that you always intended has it been more at that response been greater than you initially expected I don't know what I expected frankly it was just always the way the show was was that it was baked into the premise it wasn't like a thing that we were going to kind of dabbled in or that was like like on the surface that was the idea here was always these. This show is about people trying to be better in whatever way that meant to them to be better people and the way they're sort of lens we were looking through his ethics you know I did a lot of research about the afterlife when I was 1st developing the show conceptions of the afterlife in different religions and they were all very interesting but that doesn't help you be a better person right at some level the concept of heaven or sort of celestial reward was just it's just like if you're a good person you get this awesome thing and it didn't it wasn't prescriptive it wasn't like if you because it was like your life is over and now you just get to hang out in heaven more or less in every religion that's what it promises you so I want to do a show about what how do you what's practically speaking how do you learn how to become a better person and the proper kind of set of books to read or books about ethics because it's like hey if you're in the situation here's where you should think about and here's how you should act so it became that was just that was the show that's how the show sort of developed Jen I want to ask you as a writer let's just say hypothetically but maybe actually in truth there's going to be an episode that's going to talk about utilitarianism the idea of like the best thing to do is what benefits the greatest number of people and you are saying to yourself or the other writers but we have to make something that's entertaining that's fun right how do you negotiate that territory share Yeah I think any time you're crafting an episode of t.v. There's so many different parts of it we talk a lot about like what's the comedy engine of this episode like what is the funny situation this person is put in and then you're talking on a broader level of a theme and so for example in the trolley problem episode this is thought experiment 1st introduced by British philosopher Philip afoot in 1967 that is something where you're able to tackle head on this utilitarian idea you are driving a truck really when the brakes fail and on. Track head of you are 5 workmen that you loop run over now you can steer you to another track but on that track is one person you would kill instead of the 5 What do you do situational ethics yes like is one of them an ex-boyfriend or that snooty girl from Rite Aid who is always silently judging my purchases like yet chickie a Baby Ruth and birth control I see the irony keep a swipe at you don't know any of the workers Ok well then that's easy I switch tracks kill one person instead of 5 but what we've always tried to do is like be creative about what are the ways that we can put these themes in these ideas in these broader ideas into the episode but present it in a funny way for the Gen Could you tell me a little bit about what it means to be kind of schooled in philosophy to actually have instructions or books or articles that writers on this show write are expected to look at and consider and how that changes your approach to writing on the series as a person who mostly is interested grew up watching pro wrestling and now watches keeping up with the current actions a lot it's incredibly overwhelming. But it's been super exciting honestly like getting to work on a t.v. Show is a huge privilege in its own right and then we've had one of the coolest parts of this show is that like Mike mentioned like we have philosophers come in and give us lectures on these topics on the trolley problem on utilitarianism and it's amazing like that I've worked in a bunch of writers germs Now I've never had an experience that's like not only do I get to write a great show I love it's like being in college again and I didn't pay attention in college so it's amazing to get to do it over so it's been great We're talking with Mike sure engine stats about their show the good place we're visiting with them on the lot of n.b.c. Universal Mike I want to ask you about Pamela. Rami who is a philosophy professor at u.c.l.a. How did you reach out to her How did she come to work on the show what was that 1st contact like so I felt very strongly that I was in over my head after doing a bunch of my own reading while developing the show and I thought well it would be really helpful if there were a professor or 2 who could on whom I could rely for information and for clarity and so I just poked around on the u.c.l.a. Website and I found this woman Pamela ironic me and she had written a number of papers that I thought sounded like they might be relevant to what we were discussing and I just wrote her an email out of the blue and said Hi I'm a t.v. Producer I'm local Would you ever could you ever possibly meet with me and just I can ask you a bunch of questions and see if she said sure and so we made a date to meet for coffee on the west side and Santa Monica at a certain time and I had a Starbucks and I went to the Starbucks and she didn't show up and I was like oh no did I get this wrong and I and I looked and kept checking like now this is right and finally sent an e-mail is like I'm sorry did I get the date wrong I'm so sorry and then like after like I don't know an hour and a half she texted me or wrote me back was like oh my God I'm totally forgot about our meeting I'm sorry I'll be right there and. She came and she was incredibly apologetic she had been like working or writing or doing something that a philosophy professor does and we ended up talking for a long time I asked her a 1000000 questions she gave me a 1000000 answers it was incredibly helpful and she then later she's been a sort of like. Check in person like like Professor Mae has as well where when we don't understand something we will email her she came in and gave us she teaches an intro class at u.c.l.a. And her 1st class is about the Charlie problem and so she when we were going to write an episode about it she came in and essentially gave us her day one intro to philosophy or problem class and she led us through the entire thing and even though we kind of knew what was coming it was still super fun and it became that episode and we're forever grateful to her one of the. Misses of the show is that if you want to do something good you sometimes need help doing it that there's strength in numbers and that community can be really important in changing how you behave Was that something that you settled on as an idea early Was it something you took away from your own readings about philosophy because it does seem to be a central tenet of the show it's something I personally believed. So I think I was looking for the philosophical ideas that supported my belief which is a pretty that's a pretty classic move in the history of thought right but in this case Pamela ironic Mees thesis advisor is a famous philosopher named Tim Scanlon who taught at Harvard where she was a graduate student and he had this book called What We Owe to each other and it takes the position that the sort of way to formulate a society is by sitting down with everyone around you assuming that you are all appropriately motivated and reasonable people and figuring out what rules you can agree to that would not be objected to by of the other people around you it's a pretty simple idea but it really kind of struck a chord with me because in Pamela's words she calls it they can't we all just get along philosophy and it's like we all need to survive and the only way we can survive is if we can come up with rules that other people who are reasonably motivated and decent people won't object to that sort of crystallized for me what I had been feeling about this in a in a really strong then seeped into the show where like there is for human beings who are all unwittingly sort of linked together by a evil demon who's trying to torture them and I thought boy it would be cool if we could say well that's how they came to know each other and the way that they're going to survive is by flipping that on its ear and saying like the only way we get through this is with each other's help that seems like a pretty good sort of arc for 4 people on a t.v. Show and that's what the show has become. After a short. The frame will be back and so will my Sure and. From the good place. On top of breaking news it's practically a full time job actually it's my full time job and I'm here to help you keep up on Jonathan Capehart host of America on the line a national news and call in show about the midterm elections from radio every Monday through Thursday we have all the latest developments analysis and updates on Cheney races America on the line national conversation. Monday through Thursday at 7 pm on 89.3. Years include the l.a. Phil presenting a special. Kosky his conductor Daniel Barenboim makes his Concert Hall debut. In orchestra on November 11th this orchestras distinctive in bringing together musicians from Middle Eastern and European countries to transcend conflict and create hope for a better future tickets at l.a. Phil dot com. Welcome back to the frame I'm John Horn and today we're visiting with Mike shore and Gen stats on the universal walk where they produce the n.b.c. Comedy series The Good Place the show recently launched its 3rd season and what began as a show in which 4 people find themselves in a bizarre afterlife that 1st seem like heaven but was actually a kind of hell by now has proven to be a show about people grappling with what we're all grappling with on some level and that is how to be a better human Here's John I think that the response I've gotten from people who are fans of the show has overwhelmingly in a very flattering way and I think might get to like thank you for making a show. Being good in a time where it feels like a lot of things are bad and people are not treating each other well like it's easy to write off and say hey it's just a t.v. Show who cares but the truth of the matter is is what an incredible privilege to be able to make things that get blast into people's homes and these ideas that you put out into the world are things that they hear and internalize and think about and so the fact that this show has resulted in people saying like it's actually made me think about how I treat people and being a good person and ethics like that to me is is the most rewarding thing that can come out of it and Mike what about you in terms of like the workplace because there's been a lot of stories over the last couple of years but you could written these stories for decades about the way that people are treated in Hollywood and it could be people of color it could be women it could be people with disabilities it could be pay equity there are any number of issues that this town has not been really good about so when you're thinking about how you're going to apply ethical behavior to the running of your own show the way you're going to talk to other people the kinds of people you want to work with the kinds of people you're going to fire because you don't like the way they behave do you feel that you are different producer having thought about these issues in making the series. I think I'm a different person and I suppose being a different producer would be part of that I've become more interested about more aspects of human life and ethics because of the show I think that would be accurate to say I would also say that you know you said that Hollywood has not treated certain people so well let's be clear Hollywood has treated almost everyone terribly Hollywood as a shameful and miserable past and frankly present about all people of color all women especially its own. Only in the last couple years that most of the misery that Hollywood as a machine has created has even begin to come to light and it's disgusting it's horrible it makes me feel ashamed to be a part of the industry I'm thrilled that it's changing which it is it's finally being exposed and it's finally sort of like coming out of how deep in systemic the problems really are there's a thing that happens in Hollywood because creativity is elusive and it's gossamer and it's sort of it floats in the air and no one can quite define it or recreate it sometimes you know it's what does it mean to be a movie star Why is this person a movie star Why is that person not a movie star how is this you know writer capable of writing this amazing thing and then one year later this terrible thing it's it all feels very slippery and as a result when people sort of show for whatever reason that they have the ability to be consistently good at what they do in the past they've been allowed to get away with anything and that is how monsters are made it it's when their system of basic human checks and balances breaks down people get away with anything they want if they're making enough people enough money and if they are Rico if they're sort of like just driving forward in this kind of crazy big power machine and as a result one of the one of the bad side effects of that is that people have begun to say for years and decades have said well this part of the creative process right this treating people terribly is just like that's you just have to accept that as part of the creative process that's insane No you don't it's no one should ever treat people terribly for any reason and certainly it doesn't there's certainly no moral calculation where you'd say it's Ok to treat people terribly in whatever way that means if you create something good I mean that's absurd what kind of world are we living in if it's Ok to be deeply cruel to some people in order to get something like a. A good like a screenplay or something that's an insane calculation that people made and have stuck to for decades and decades it's finally changing your few finally begun to see companies and individuals and people in Hollywood say we are not going to tolerate terrible behavior in exchange for either successful product or just creatively interesting product and thank goodness Mike let me ask you this last question and I think what's interesting in this is totally anecdotal is that the show was watched by families how unusual is that for you to have a show where families watch a show that's hitting people at very different levels based on their age their education and where they are like that anecdote of like I watch it with my family has been said to me about Parks and Recreation It's been said about Brooklyn 99 it was said about the office which I did not create or adapt that was great Daniels but I wrote on that show and I think the if there's a sort of unifying idea behind all those shows it's that 1st of all they're on n.b.c. And so there's less you know cursing and nudity and stuff and parents feel like it's a little bit safer even if some of the humor is a little bit more adult but it's not so adult that you have to worry but I think that those shows are on sambal shows they have a large number of characters who represent a large number of viewpoints on the world and there is some kind of unifying theme there that I learned from Greg which is that your life is your relationships with other people at some fundamental level that is what makes your days past it is your sort of bonds with other people that matters in the world and so I would guess in this I'm not a psychologist but I would guess that if there's a reason that families gather to watch those shows that has something to do with it Michael Janda thanks so much for but it's come visit Thanks for having us thanks for having us Michel sure is the creator of the comedy the good plays Jen's dads he is a writer and producer on the show. It airs Thursday nights on n.b.c. And that is it for today you can find the frame podcast where if you'd like to listen to keep up with us on Twitter and Facebook as well you'll find us at the frame I'm John Horn Thanks for listening and I'll see you back here tomorrow. On the legal side of a state planning it's important to our audience to protect their homes brokerage accounts and medical decisions Richard group of people who are looking for your services become a corporate sponsor of k.p.c. See more at k b c c dot org slash sponsor. Supporters include Amazon Prime video presenting a very English scandal starring Hugh Grant as British m.p. Jeremy Thorpe arrested on charges of conspiring to murder a male ex lover episodes are available and consider Amazon dot com live or local where Belize n.p.r. Leader 89.3 p.c.c. Coming up next it's All Things Considered from n.p.r. Donald Trump claims Tarot sister traveling with a large group of Central American migrants headed north for the u.s. Border but there's no proof of that all the people I've spoken to here said we are just fleeing We have nowhere to go in our country we'll bring you a report from the caravan itself we'll also update you on a new law that might finally stop the airlines from shrinking seats and leg room it's coming up next on All Things Considered a Dodger fans we've got World Series tickets we're out of reach Be sure to listen to k p c c tomorrow we will unveil a World Series ticket sweepstakes to send you want to friend to Game 3 a Dodger stadium Friday night these are great seats we'll have all the details tomorrow here on 89.3 k.p.c. See all things considered for a Monday comes up after headlines it is 4 o'clock. That broken down old car may be trash to you but it's treasure to us we can take it off your hands do all the paperwork and turn that old car inequality in. Dependent news on the c.c. Critic a b c c dot org slash cars. K.p.c. Supporters include l.a. Opera grand presenting from Pier at the theater it is hotel an annual Halloween mash up of opera and cinema returns with drier surreal and spooky 1932 master work that Hitchcock called The only film was seen twice an all new score by composer Joe b. Talbott is performed live by members of the l.a. Opera orchestra bumpier downtown at the theater days hotel October 27th and 31st tickets include exclusive after parties details and to consider l.a. Opera dot org This is 89.3 k. P.c.c. Pasadena Los Angeles a community service of Pasadena City College were over 200 programs offer students the ability to dream come do learn more at Pasadena that you do you. Live from n.p.r. News in Washington I'm Jack Speer President Trump says the u.s. Intends to begin cutting or reducing aid to 3 Central American countries for failing to stop thousands of migrants who are heading towards the u.s. Speaking ahead of a trip to Texas as support Senate Republican Ted Cruz from said those countries have received millions in usa dollars over the past fiscal year blah blah blah Salvador made a lot of money every year we give a party and they did nothing nothing they did nothing. Knowing. Amend this amounts of money you know what it is you covered all the hundreds of millions of dollars they like a lot of money nothing for our country with thousands of migrants now traveling through Mexico trying to reach the u.s. Trump says alerted both the Border Patrol and the military as he looks to make the migrants a midterm election issue the u.s. Military in Afghanistan is acknowledging that an American general was wounded during a deadly attack in the southern city of Kandahar last week initially the command described in only as an American. Service Member more from N.P.R.'s Tom Bowman on Thursday Brigadier General Geoffrey Smiley was meeting with senior American and Afghan officials just before the meeting broke up an Afghan guards suddenly turned his weapon on those present the guard killed Kandahar's police chief before spring the room with bullets Smiley was hit twice in his limbs at a Pentagon source and is being treated at a military hospital in Afghanistan an American military spokesman in Kabul confirmed to n.p.r. That general Smiley was shot the general commanded a training unit news of general Smiley was wounded was 1st reported by The Washington Post the American command said it did not release the general's name for privacy reasons Tom Bowman n.p.r. News Washington the Trump administration is changing Affordable Care Act rules so middle income healthy people will find it easier to buy less expensive health insurance but N.P.R.'s Allison Kojak reports the new guidance also allows states to subsidize low quality insurance plans that don't cover preexisting conditions the new guidance says the administration may allow states to opt out of traditional Affordable Care Act markets States instead could encourage a.