In the law for 10 is the biggest concentration of asto fish producers in the world and it's because we have the climate you need both cold weather and dry weather and you need sand and we have everything here we are gifted from God Jamie victory along with and over the next half hour here on the b.b.c. As they explore Nigeria's love affair with Norway's stock fish that's stock fish in the documentary coming up in 5 minutes time. Hello this is David Alston with the b.b.c. News president trumps national security advisor has said the u.s. And its allies are in a race to tackle the problem with North Korea before the reclusive state of cheese its nuclear ambitions h r McMaster was speaking at a defense forum in California where he warned that the potential for war with North Korea was increasing every day the greatest immediate threat to the United States and to the world is the threat posed by the rogue regime in North Korea and his continued efforts to develop a long range nuclear capability there are ways to to address this problem short of armed conflict but it is a race because he's getting closer and closer and there's not much time left Mr MacMASTER called on China to enforce a total oil embargo on North Korea to make it difficult beyond yang to fuel missile launches North Korea has accused the United States of being a war monger Donald Trump has suggested his former national security advisor Michael Flynn is the victim of a rigged system he tweeted that Mr Finn's life has been destroyed by the investigation into alleged Russian interference in last year's presidential election earlier Mr Trump courted controversy by indicating that he fired Mr Flynn in February in part because he'd lied to the f.b.i. From Washington his Laura pika this is a problem because the former head of the f.b.i. James Comey has testified under oath that the president asked him to drop an investigation into Michael Flynn legal analysts are no wondering if the president was trying to stop an inquiry into his former adviser knowing he was guilty in other words was he trying to obstruct justice the South Korean coast guard says 13 people on a fishing trip have been killed in a collision between their boat and a fuel tank or more from our correspondent in Seoul pulled out of. The accident occurred an hour or so before sunrise in the waters near Incheon west of the capital Seoul the fishing boat carrying 2 crew and 20 passengers on a fishing tour collided with a much larger 336 ton fuel tanker it's not clear why the search operation has been going on all day including dozens of ships t.v. Pictures show the upturned hull of the fishing boat floating on the surface and specially trained Coast Guard divers searching inside the passengers were all reported to be wearing life jackets but the currents are strong and the water at this time of year extremely cold aid agencies are warning that the number of deaths and injuries from anti-personnel landmines or similar devices is on the rise 20 years after they use was banned by an international convention many countries such as Bosnia Cambodia and Zimbabwe as to littered with landmines and armed groups like Islamic state and making their own world news from the b.b.c. One of the world's most prestigious opera houses the Met in New York is investigating allegations that its former music director sexually abused a teenage boy in the mid 1980 s. The Met said it was deeply disturbed by reports about James divine no charges have been brought against him he denies wrongdoing. The Cambodian prime minister who in Cern has taken part in a special prayer session at the ankle watch temple complex along with $5000.00 porters monks it was the 2nd day of the ceremony which the authorities say celebrates peace and stability in Cambodia who in send received blessings from monks and joined in the chanting of prayers and mantras the Afghan president Ashraf Ghani has apologized to women for apparently offensive remarks about the traditional headscarf his move came after widespread criticism on social media chill McGiver in reports on Saturday at a border police event president Danny criticized those who have said some government officials have links with the militant group Islamic State people making such claim should provide evidence he said or where a woman's headscarf his remarks provoke criticism on social media from those who said he insulted women supporters were quick to defend his government's record on women's rights in his statement the president apologized to women who felt offended and said his comments had been misinterpreted the United States has withdrawn from a global deal designed to help migrants and refugees the u.s. Ambassador to the u.n. Said her country was proud of its immigrant heritage but she said decisions on immigration policy must always be made by Americans alone thousands of Israelis are joining to protest in Tel Aviv against government corruption and a draft law which critics say is intended to protect the Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu Mr Netanyahu is suspected of involvement in 2 cases he denies wrongdoing those are the latest stories from b.b.c. News. We can cook with those folks here every day said they we can live what. We used to play sport fishing beings he is pretty and even jello fries he spoke French this ingredient it's transformed the identity and what is traditional in Nigeria the Norwegian and the Nigerian economy are both grown because of stock the share in there is the biggest concentration of stock fish producers in the road and it's because we have the climate you need both the cold weather and drive weather and you need sound we have everything here we are gifted from got stock fish is on salted Cod mosque today as we know we just call it it's dried and huge wooden frames outside in the crisp gifted from God of Norway tried until it looks like the box from a tree but it doesn't taste like it and several 1000 miles away in Nigeria stock fish is massively popular in fact it is now on an essential ingredient in so many cooking pots every Blaise said day over the next half hour come with me Victoria or Honda as I follow for the b.b.c. This intriguing journey of a fish from Scray to stock fish from Norway to Nigeria. In the spectacular fjord in the far north of me and mantis went out onto the deck of a boat out for as this can a limb listening brownish goldish speckled beauties get hot all need is the fish. Yeah I say these securities all of the most famous called jokes in the world every Yeah that's gray or dead they're called from the bar if you come in here like last year I could have 2500 kilo in just 10 that. Day was a special by local. And then the card found here you have the right temperature it's perfect to beat. When they call every year in calls himself yes it must be perfect what it's called and. That's another factor. If they are over 2.5 can. It be in the price if it's all the 2.5 It's much better quality to get the old dead meat in the fish just slice Yeah and I got. Some good one person to take a knife there how do you like that. Oh my God this is conscious swing the knife like this. Now I'm bloody I've got blood all over my trousers and my gloves. And this is the hot meat and I have a tradition in my bowl like in tradition where you do crew have to eat. Again I'm not falling for the owl and there is no way I'm falling for this I have to pass no thank you. Back on dry land in the port of swell with the snow still think underfoot I made one of the biggest exporters of stock fish I mean far I'm born here in Florida so this is the main city of the fishery in Norway you have a family business saga face how did this I mean the 6th generation is starting the beginning of the 18th century as they bought fish and the they dried the outside and the rest still doing in the same way in this area in is did biggest concentration of stock fish producers in the world and it's because we have the climate you need both cold weather and dry weather and you need sand and we have everything here we are gifted from God. Sure enough Miss. Just go and see where you drive fish. You can see here we have been the rocks 10 meters high 140 meter long and it can carry about 300 tons. So 140 me tell you a long wooden structure that's just slightly bigger than a football pitch 10 metres high How do you get all this fish on the rocks the tractor can lift 7 metre high but still it's hard work and the reason for the rocks are so high it's because then we have more air so it will dry faster and drive better this has been here for maybe one month and it takes 2 more months and then it will be ready. And you can hear how Dr they already when the heads of bang in together. We're looking at so many fish heads and so many fish tales and so many fish bodies and you say $300.00 tons in tons of money how much is that approximately $500000.00. Everything here is for the giraffe Machiavel because it's a lot of fish. What is your best market in Nigeria we also produce sound for it to the Us London market which sound 200 or 250 containers to Nigeria it's about 4000 tonnes and if you convert it into dinner say it's about 202030 1000000 Then there's so and if you compare it to Italy Nigeria by 10 times more fish than Italy or 2nd market it's huge and also last year's in Nigeria it has increased so it's getting more and more important for us to crease but when tunnel region asked for thousands of years ever since the Vikings created the ideal stock fish in more recent days as. Temperature as and where the patterns fluctuate saga Fiske has invested in indoor drying racks they used if heavy rain arrives when it shouldn't fall takes me inside the noisy and extremely smelly factory on a new market in something what is that small part of the fillers. You're just doing right it's not just doesn't just like fish though we use we see it as just that I like a distribution over here in north No it we teach the young people I know everybody is 7 time your protein is the best fruit. I am Victoria from that because it will service Ok my name and you didn't get tell you why in charge of the grid to find do you decide which fish goes to which country it depends on the quality we have a lot of birds here they can make damage for fish as that comes from the coral song this fish is be 1st class and I can see that they're physically damaged then yeah and I can see class number 2 so which country gets class number one 1st why of course they tell you one best quality and we can see how damage and then we can send not so best quality form negated am what does Nigeria get in the north great quality because of money they want also cheap and fish but also they can take a good quality but he want more mix would you really send fish that has got bacteria to Nigeria no know if it's really a bad thing not send it can be 20 percent 10 percent just on the neck it's not so good program but of course if it's very bad quality it's a lot of work there will be cancer and just dangerous for a healthy and do you ever get used to the smell of the fish Yes Yes For me it's no problem it's money smells. This mail of money's bunda and that it clings to the back of your throat and it is serious catch fish is Norway's 2nd highest and the stock fish that goes to Nigeria is a hugely important money spinner a recent slump in the price of Nigeria's men export oil meant that the government restricted access to the foreign currency needed to import goods on the scrap coal thrown course vite from Norway's seafood Council explained to me how that affected exports to Nigeria they drew up a list of 41 products that were not considered to be really necessary products and unfortunately fish was put on this list and we saw that the people that wanted to import fish they were not able anymore to get our currency at the official rate and they had to go out and buy hard currency at the parallel rate and that meant the products that were imported became too going to have to treat times more expensive since the price went up so much that people could not afford to buy so much anymore from $20.00 to $14.00 the value of the stock fish exported 'd from Norway went down by approximately 25 percent and from 2015 to 2016 almost another 50 percent but things have bounced back these year after the Nigerian Central Bank injected dollars into the economy prices have lowered and noways stock fish producers are now confident enough to try not just to increase the Nigerian trade but also to expand into other parts of West Africa the main import is in the south and in the south east stuff which is being consumed by all the people in Nigeria but not since large volume so there is a potential to incur. Further then we know that there is a potential in the neighboring countries to Nigerians living in these countries and there is a small export of stock which from Nigeria to these countries like. To talk we have also noticed that the Nationals in these countries there the people in Cameroon they have also started to like it and we hope to see some direct import of Stop wishing to come ruin in the near future from Norway the Nigerians love of stock fish and that propensity to travel in trade are starting to create more ports unities for growth within the West African region but how on earth did that my dearie end to start eating Norwegian stock fish in the 1st place under the brilliant winter sunshine in the shadow of a few award I found out from historian and author. We don't think they will never have been and in order. Curing 5600 years 18 percent only know we had came from quote stock official So how did the trade with Nigeria come about it started with slave trading to treat a 100 years ago and then they use it as food for the poor people from Africa who was sent over to America because of its top official you can store it for 10 years or so from slave trade to Morden day is still very popular in Nigeria when I came to the food and 40 years ago it was not that important and it forces who only dried heads north to made very good very that then you got a war in Nigeria and people in Biafra were starving and I don't know which in government used a lot of money to send stock official it was 50 years ago. In 1967 that the Civil War The Frankie Hansen talks about broke out in Nigeria when the Republic of be Afro was declared in the east of the country. In the course of 3 years more than a 1000000 people died mostly from hunger it was a humanitarian crisis of an unprecedented scale and it was the 1st time that churches and relief agencies from all over the world including Norway joined together to fly in emergency supplies among them no we just stock fish Edwin my faith grace and Eman will take us back to those days I was 5 and of course by the time the war ended I was 17 there was a refugee camp or primary school where there were hundreds of families that's got my mom to take food to help feed the children and you look in their eyes and you just say like I seen help me feed me I remember the bhajan eyes I just I mean I can't even describe it this man was most harrowing was the children that I was growing up with who died because they didn't get enough to eat there was a huge shortage of protein So those ones who couldn't get protein literally developed protein deficiency disease called question 1st the hair would change color. Or become distended protruding and I didn't have question even though many of the other kids had a shock or. I shall call is a very debilitating mound attrition it was a feature of the war mainly because of a daily parade war policy. To blockade got food from agencies like Korea ties like Red Cross and the flu that to us and one of those for 2 meals that came with dried stock fish that was what I actually checked them on interest shown because stock fish they once. Gave us protein get was right and mince right to me and did and it was used to prepare this soup you find that this you're right it just blossomed You see I shall have it for truth is this some of you got to go in you see the flesh the flesh and just as soon as that was introduced it was like a magic it was handy it was it to start they didn't require a few generation each time it comes it was jarring so I do remember the salt that stocks. The egg yolk. The. The green beings personally like all those didn't like the. The green peas the stock fish the single weapon against Russia was stuck fish it is now a staple in my and everybody eats it and it's no longer seen as a medicine for years I didn't eat stock fish I've only just started it in starfish It's actually almost impossible these days to exist soup. If it was a soup with fish. To be the primary protein goes with. Some kind of melon seat full of flavor full of vegetables full of different sources and it is really really really refreshing to eat existing Friday end of the day's work and I have to say that the a goose is soup Edwin my face talking about is truly delicious and it's clearly a relief for him to be able to eat it simply for pleasure and not because it's a matter of life and death in Nigeria today the stock fish arrives not by an emergency but by contain a ship as an everyday I tend. To. Come to market in the lead cause it's the port where the stock fish is brought in. Around me I can see all types of stalkers their heads their tails times and of course. The whole body. And the prices can run from anything from $7.00 a head to $50.00 for a whole fish so what is it about stock fish that people love I just wanted to ask you with so many fish and choices how do you know which one. To choose one you pick the fish bowl not the counting wits. I study which would look good and how did beautiful you could because it's all of them is not the same how much wood can you get out of one k.g. And the bear I would like to manage some people but I will dislike to quote but if people want me but I know you did but I'm not their money well you know one you've got the sounds my. Journey to good to you have stopped fish every day yes every day have me do I have a pretty well in my. Life. For Yourself Now do you eat stock fish it's a lot it's a lot given my children we can cook with outspokenness every day every day said they we can live with this yes we can make them up a little bit when. We used to push the fishing beings in it pretty and even jello fries he would have spoke fish because of the nutrients. The smell of the bundles of stock fish stacked high on the market stalls is the same as when I 1st encountered this age old delicacy it's powerful clinging and sometimes overwhelming but this scene in Basking Lagos it's he in California is and loud couldn't be more different to the cold and white and fast space of Norway and it's amazing to see and hear just how important stock fish is to many Nigerians stock fish is one of those ingredients that I believe has been a great part of our identity in cuisine and food in one juror Michael a leg but there is a young chef a rising star in the Cullen reward his recently returned to Nigeria and his signature dishes. All revolve around stock fish so they were going to be making a for. Your Bud delicacy it's a stew you made with spend in which you can use different types of leafy greens that we have here and I'm sure you can use a fork that they can use shall call one of the most important ingredients that we My grandma used to use in this dish of stock. When we got home and we smell you know the boiling stock fish when you get that Graham ice cook and you know when I smell starfish that now stile Jack my grandmother immediately kicks into my head. And now we have our stuff is such that I've been so can usually I love this just so for 2 days changing the water every 8 hours this is how we typically prepare it and get the best. It's very soft and delicate so it doesn't need to be cooked for too long. You can already smell. The richness as a kid I I was never told that this stuff this was something from the whole way it was so common that I couldn't imagine it not being. The kind. It was it was quite a shock I was in New York my roommate it was a Norwegian chef and I'm going to show you good for you and I'm going to I'm going to have. These of course no manager is just better and I said I'm going to cook you know enter in food and I got home I was getting ready to cook and it looked just like oh yeah this is nice you're going to make it more familiar to me by use in the region stock fish like what do you mean. It was a wonder realisation that something that I thought of as very in one Geria a surprising realisation how the Norwegian economy and the one German economy after both grow because of this ingredient people will ask what is it about these fish from the cold land app in the north of us that is so so so good that it makes it so popular in this country in 1000 where a culture that appreciates very strong flavors fish has different categories but the ones that we get. The very very dry ones that are very strong in our amount and for. And that is something goes with other ingredients that we use in cooking so for instance the fermented locust spin is a very strong pungent and flavorful ingredients so as to stock fish when you say that the stock fish is so entrenched into the $93.00 and dishes and food that people just have to have it no matter the cost yes in certain parts of the country this stock fish is so ingrained in the way that they perceive their tradition and culture of food that not have in stock fish would be something that I don't think they would have sacked. And so we are. Right. Do you. Know this. Have created enough money to buy this thing the taste of salt fish is the producer in Lagos Christina t.n. No not such a fun is the editor penny Dale something. And I am Victoria and like so many Nigerians I have fallen in love with Norway's stock fish thank you for joining me for the story of stock fish on the b.b.c. Documentary. Distribution of the b.b.c. 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McMaster was speaking at a defense forum in California where he warned for the potential for war with North Korea was increasing every day he called on China to enforce a total oil embargo on North Korea to make it difficult for Pyongyang to fuel missile launches President Trump has suggested his former national security advisor Michael Flynn is the victim of a rigged system he tweeted that Mr Flynn's life has been destroyed by the investigation into alleged Russian interference in last year's presidential election earlier Mr Trump indicated that he fired Mr Flynn in part because he'd lied to the f.b.i. The remark provoked accusations that the president might have obstructed justice when he later asked the f.b.i. To drop its inquiry into Mr Flynn. A collision between a fuel tanker and a boat carrying passengers on a fishing trip in South Korea has left at least 13 people dead the accident happened off the western port of Incheon aid agencies are warning that the number of deaths and injuries from anti personnel the landmines or similar devices is on the rise 20 years after the use was banned by an international convention they say some militant groups including Islamic state and the Taliban have made their own improvised land mines one of the world's most prestigious opera houses the Mets in New York is investigating allegations that its former music director James Le Vine sexually abused a teenage boy in the mid 19 $180.00 s. Mr Irvine is reported to have denied wrongdoing and the Cambodian prime minister who sent his joint $5000.00 Buddhist monks for a special prayer session at the ankle What temple complex b.b.c. News. Hello I'm Derek Mitchell and welcome to our technology program click certainly something of a safety and preservation theme today as we preserve our digital lives safeguard refugees the mapping and social media apps improve security in election campaigns and save lives by mapping the proteins involved in diseases like cancer and we'll have comment as we go along from the technology journalist and general expert Bill Thompson Hello. There is a very very general expert just trying to be expert and I'm sure you will be because we're going to need your expertise on this 1st story definitely Bill we're going to be talking about endangered species but of a digital kind I'm talking about photos teletext services legal records and a host of other media on servers hard drives memory sticks or even cassettes or floppy disks many of them on the critically endangered list some of them on the verge of extinction Yes just as we discussed black rhinos or mountain gorillas as endangered species the nonprofit organization the digital preservation coalition wants us to care about conservation of data and storage technologies this Thursday the 30th of November they're declaring international digital preservation day and to go with it they've just released the bit list Executive Director William Kilbride joins me live 1st of all what is this list that you put together then will you thank you very much for having me saw the belt last comes from the digital preservation caution for whom no walking in digital preservation typically makes bleak eating Everyone has stories of data loss or drop or fail for much the star obsolete and other sort of narrative our own. Prospects of digital data which can have lends itself to our I suppose we call it the digital dark age or not it of which for someone like me is quite attempting it out of because it gets attention one has to ask whether that narrative. As realistic it falls into that their. Rating for you know coming soon the apocalypse. For me it's important to to to thank you not so much about the data loss but also a bit actually the 2 or 3 decades of really good which are small but quite committed by and of people have been doing in the preservation of digital content so so so and so what about this bit because I've got it here in front of me and it lists for instance classes of data that might be endangered or that actually have been quite well preserved so what's on the exactly so we're trying to draw attention to the place where we think attention is needed and trying to get a more subtle discussion about the problems and of course over tame we can move things up and don't allow us to celebrate those successes you know you put a good context there I don't got I think it's more that I had less that fight which is the list of endangered species we have 5 or 6 cats a good east of definite rescues we believe that it'll content faeces it presents a mix of successes and challenges for the future it presents actions that we think need to happen to please our certain content take yes a fence you have lower risk vulnerable endangered critically endangered tragically extinct and exactly so in the same way that you would classify in danger of species in the natural world in ecosystems Let's go to some of these examples of fascinating digital photos that we all care about those photos that we might have on that now obsolete digital camera is not the kind of thing we're talking about that's exactly the kind of thing we're talking about so we've presented information about. Images twice over officially you get photos stored on what you would call portable media or potentially obsolete portable media which you know you've got to think if if you've got your family photo album No basically on a couple of C.D.'s knocking around in the bottom of the sock drawer that's going to require some action because you're not going to be able to get in t. Finding a cd reader. Even if the data itself as well presented and of course underlying that are issues to do with documentation who then these photos when really taken who are the faces of my time in Capture Yes I lacking metadata is absolutely absolutely right acquired Yeah and while i also the issue to do with proprietary format Sorcha you may faint things which aren't readily readable form peg or for whatever as I midges but who's to say where will be 101520 it's enough of a pickle already and we still seem fairly early on in this hell that will tell which it'll information revolutionary really seem to be disregarded what's actually going on in most of us don't take very good care of our own personal data collections I lead the organizations with more data so we take care of their data so that pointed out the bit least to to raise that awareness yes it will it also takes us to that bigger area which is it's not just about the actual final is really looted today it's about the capability of reading those files I read we had formally invented the t.c.p. IP protocols creator of the internet talk about digital vellum and how you have the whole environment which we will so this is a really good way of highlighting a much bigger issue we have to hope people do take notice and yeah and that's what let me ask you about teletext because you have some expertise here the b.b.c. Had a service called Sea fax for instance other countries like France had many Tell which I know isn't quite teletext But what I'm saying is that this was an information medium that lasted for what 20 or 30 years and is culturally really important there is anybody archiving as far as you know things like There you see there and back there are various organizations that do are kind of some of it a lot of it is preserved old videotape by an organization with the British obesity because they recorded a lot of television off air using a video format called s.p.h. S. Which actually does preserve the sea facts signal so it is in principle retrievable but it has. Its money and now now there's there's a project and let me ask experiment much time left really. I want to know about international digital preservation day so it's this Thursday so just go preserving as much as they can for 24 hours what's going to happen on something like that So 1st up we are known to the less will use this to drive attention our own about less than trite it is a realist but the other feature of the digital preservation community is that so many a large fast growing community want to put people together help the growing community to connect and talk to each other and reason be honest to their own bosses to the line managers to their communities about the work that they're doing and yet there is a substantial number of people saying up around the world starting Wellington New Zealand nameer in the morning continuing through till I vote in San Francisco I believe these events to mark the work that people always always like the Millennium couldn't I mean I totally have on some old v.h.s. Tapes the broadcast of the millennium but they get most times out of that. Yeah yeah in the archive I would love to see this interview for. Being wonderful So thank you very much indeed for that bank you Kilbride of the digital preservation coalition Ok now what happens when social media and the apps on your phone are a bit more than just finding your way to a great night out or maybe even sharing the pictures afterwards what if the device in your hand is a lifeline your refugee faced with a long perilous journey so your principal guide will quite possibly that little blue dot on your mapping app British Somali journalist ish mile in ash a has been following the story off Refugees and Migration for many years and recently he's been looking at mobile phones halls and apps for migrants travelling from Africa and the Middle East. And his piece begins with the words of one migrant describing his experience there is shooting on the border. And I get called by the borders guards. I get beaten but. I did some negotiating with them. And then they let me go for Mohammed a 25 year old Syrian from Aleppo now living in Vienna having access to a smartphone with g.p.s. And Google Maps was essential when he made a 15 day journey out of the rubble of the Syrian civil war via Turkey to Greece when we arrived on the Greek island the only way to move in that island is to get like a birth from the authorities but the problem was we were like 70 kilometers away from there. We had to walk the Who 70 kilometers which is in 2 there is walking. The 1st useful platform was or a vacation was for me google maps because in a lot of cases you are between fields and sometimes you don't even know where is the borders like for example. Between Macedonia and Syria like it was tricky between the field so sometimes you need that location to know in which country you are but even before those who survive the journeys reach Europe simple to knowledge is a vital starting point for any would be migrant after I left his mother behind in Asia and his brother died on a boat from Libya to Italy he lost the means to contact. But again being friend with a phone and Whatsapp unable to make a call to his mother in Italy during the journey 650 people in said board and I lost my brother they are 500 people have passed away after I live in Italy without a full night I don't know where's my mom to have the possibility to use phones watch up I start calling my mom to watch stuff to talk with her and my mom was not believing that I'm the one who was stuck in so I always call her and start singing a music that she sing the damn I was more. Sort of sick and believe that I'm the one who is talking with her can you sing me a little bit of that music so I can hear it I know you have a beautiful voice that I'd be shy out to. Any. Man on. Our own room and. I mean that. Allie's on and. You know not worried oh no this was the most. Wow that's beautiful What does the lyrics mean what does the song mean yes she was talking about me that make it never never give up nor that the left is or this real difficulties but don't worry about not in you wonder what you are you will make it Laura Hammond immigration expert at the School of Oriental and African studies involved and says one of the most treasured possessions a microbe has on his journey is a mobile phone but social media also place a darker role in a migrants journey west Facebook and other social media platforms are really important at feeding the imagination of those who are planning to move so they receive factual and informative information about. Condition life in a tree that they're hoping to go to they're also receiving all sorts of information that may not be as accurate in the way. A lot of people have friends and family members who also made that journey or through some other matter means have found themselves in in this case European countries and are sending images back of themselves living you know in quite luxurious conditions which may or may not actually reflect the reality in which those relatives and friends and they think but it it feeds their imagination and it it fuels their desire to want something like that for themselves it's not to say that the only reason people are going is because of these images of what they see on on social media but that's one of the factors together with a whole range of other factors some of which are related to persecution and human rights violations and other things but the role of social media is one factor that needs to be looked at more closely and it's one that hasn't really been considered so far Laura Hammond ending that report from Ismail and ass a Thompson listening to that and then lowered. This is initially that does bear but a further discussion say let's discuss that fact I suppose it is important isn't it increasingly important I think the 1st thing is both aspects of the story from. Point out to you but all phones are really really important that connectivity that people have been forced by circumstance to abandon their homes need that connection to their home to their family to the people around them and then the potential risks of social media what they tell us together is that we're all connected by the network and it has lots of it was but we can't now disentangle people's lives from the connectivity that comes through advanced technology used in a variety of different ways and therefore we need to think about how this technology affects everyone far too much of the discussion about the influence of say social media sites like Facebook what whatever is around how they're being used by a relatively privileged minority you know what's he to the children actually know what to do to the children in western countries who actually do have enough to eat and little attention is being paid here it's a bit like the the drug companies wanting to treat conditions of affluence rather than conditions of poverty because the money is where the affluence is and I think there's a real danger that we don't take these issues seriously we don't have to seriously it's fake news intrudes on elections and things like yeah and dating as I've said mentioning it in the introduction really we might think of the social media as and you know the mapping function of hey you know this Blue Dot will take us to this great bar we're all going to meet having and then we'll take these great photos we can share them we'll have a great time which is probably part of what the technology companies had in mind when they designed these products you know not being hard on them here necessarily They probably I wouldn't have thought necessarily as one of the people working in these companies that maybe one day a refugee would be following that blue dot across them dangerous territory fleeing some kind of persecution and you've highlighted what is the Met issue the big issue here which is and it's increasingly discussed the lack of die. Versity in particularly Silicon Valley where people are designing services that meet the needs of their lawyers in the lives of the people they hang out with and not necessarily encouraged to or even able to reflect on the broader perspective and this one of the biggest goal he would ensuring that the boards of those companies the engineers reflect the genuine diversity of life in the world of humanity so at the choices I made in these products and services can be made in the light of those possibilities of the you're right they're not considered they're just not see that being possibly conceded that really does change Ok Well thank you this is click from the b.b.c. In London I'm Karen Michel with Bill Thompson and now is the link that John Podesta Hillary Clinton's campaign manager must have really regretted clicking on a link in a malicious e-mail that led hackers thoughts to be sponsored by Russia to break into his g. Mail account so supposing you are a campaign team now make the running and election how do you avoid doing a protest you know that was how do you safeguard you your candidates and well yes the fair execution of the entire democratic process but now you have some help security experts at Harvard Kennedy School Belfer Center have just released a cyber security campaign playbook with advice about risks authentication devices and what to do if you are unfortunate enough to be hacked one of the contributors is Deborah Plunkett he's actually formerly of the u.s. National Security Agency but the most important piece of advice is to recognize that there is risk and that you are a target everyone is a target and that you have to assume that there would be those who might want to co-opt your data or gain access to the network infrastructure and so teaching the human to operate with that knowledge and to then be very conscious of it in the actions they take or network campaign information and data. Really important and is acknowledging the human factors and instruction I mentioned John Podesta I mean could that be a better example somebody just quite innocently clicking on a link and then having his e-mails hacked right quite innocently but really the number one cause of many many intrusions both large and small is human error and it's really tough because you have campaigns that are only up and running for you know 18 to 24 months and the have people coming in and out and so it's hard to instill a culture like that in something that's so transient but that's what we're trying to communicate in the playbook Yes because I'm going to ascii well how this advice is specific to campaigning because that could be general cyber security advice for all of us but you also have some advice about you know what if things do you get a role if you do get hacked and things go wrong how to have a some contingency plan and I think your main advice is to make sure you've got a contingency plan in place that's right have a plan and know who it is you're supposed to call know what your legal obligations are you know if law enforcement has to be involved you know who the technical assistance is that you might want to call and just have them poised just in case something happens you've been in the National Security Agency say you know how governments work incredibly well I guess you can't be too specific but what kinds of cybersecurity crazy areas have you seen and how you had you just saying you guys are idiots What do you there is certainly in my private sector life over the past 2 years I've seen all kinds of things that really range from largely companies and you know entities who are working hard to enable employees to operate in a way that they're comfortable with by having their devices on one site bringing their own devices into the workplace but not doing it with civic guidance given so that pretty much you're introducing all kinds of all abilities unintentionally into the workplace for obvious reasons. Political campaigns are targets and anybody involved in campaigns should know that and have a plan ready and that's what this guide is all about. The whole point is this is democracy we're talking about here this is where cybersecurity really matter is it really is and I'll tell you it's what attracted me to the project because I personally want to protect my ability my right to vote and my right for my vote to count at all costs and I think you know many most Americans are pretty indignant about and outraged that anyone would or any entity would attempt to corrupt that and so we want to protect that you know we want the outcome to be that which the American people desire and not corrupted by some other bad intent that's Deborah Plunkett's a she's one of those he's contributed to the cybersecurity campaign playbook Well now not playbooks but playing games play a game in fact and do your bit to tackle the likes of pancreatic cancer understanding cancers and many other diseases involves understanding the underlying genes and that means unraveling the proteins that the genes code for gamers have been helping in a project is to identify all the proteins and how body it's Kilian task in separating millions of images of these microscopic structures that look like blue and red blobs with green things growing out of them but with some training even non-scientists can make sense of all those blobs in fact they can become expert protein spotters so you make it into a game and you have a free workforce of thousands of volunteer protein spotters and that's the idea behind projects discovery within the online gaming environment Eve Online and it's recently won an award for the 2 scientists behind the quest Byrne art reverence and Atilla Santa here are co-founders of the mass of massively multiplayer online science which is a platform that connects scientific research and video games Well I spoke to 2 of them earlier on soon in fact after they had received that Lovie award for being greater with data whatever you do inside this word for word that we've is basically writing a single epic story. C.c.p. The company behind Eve Online created a very complex set of rules but the real content of the game is created by players all the player interaction all the social interactions that make special this game so within this science fiction online virtual world or even virtual universe people can interact they can complete tasks and in your case your idea was to within this world create a task where members of the online community could help to identify proteins of all things wedded to that idea come from the initial idea was to leverage this huge processing power if I may say of all of these intelligence that you may have in a video game 500000 gayness play one hour a day around the world and the initial idea was to tap into this fantastic brain power to put this contribution for solving science research problem and the original idea was to use existing video games and not to create one so even one was a very good target for this very good objective to integrate this 1st research game the idea was to integrate it in a organic way gamers are not taken out of the entertainment environment of the video game this is a continuous part an organic part of their activities within the game how is it that you're able to make it possible for just ordinary nonscientists to go into the online environment and help identify these proteins we distribute some part of they generally says project of course we distribute problems where outsiders after really short training are capable of contributing to the problems in this case they have about a quarter 1000000 images and what was the task for the player is to localize the green colored patterns in this image showing the location of one specific protein on that microscope image so the might. Image that users are presented with consists of what look likes patterns and within are these slightly lumpy bumpy spheres with green backgrounds as you can tell from the Web describe that I have no idea what I'm looking at here but with some training I'd be able to say right that's a particular protein or a structure within the protein and that's the idea how were people able to tell one protein or one cell type aside from another what we present to the player with this was one image that needed to be analyzed and on the other side of the user interface you could see 27 reference images which were 27 different locations in the cell and so you could see some reference images there was a tutorial So you slowly learned how to classify properly these images right Casey have this complex shape with all these different colors and structures within it and you have some reference there just saying if you see this kind of thing within this object this scan from the microscope then label it in this way Absolutely and classifying images is something we humans are especially skilled at and we still compete under certain conditions with computers having said that is this work partly using human beings to train artificial intelligence systems to give them the training data or this always only ever could be a human task for the time being anyway this is actually how we see this activity is long term strategic position is that we can introduce data sets in games players are very active they make a good job of classifying these images and then these could be used as training set for artificial intelligence there is no competition between the humans and the computer it's more a collaborative work between computers and humans although at one point in any project the software and a machine will outperform humans there will always be an early phase in the project where data exploration where humans will be extremely efficient. To do that and also something very interesting is that we may ask ourselves what the science is actually the ultimate game and this is something that was kind of behind the lines when we talk with game designers when they understood that they had real science puzzles into the video game they were fascinated by discontinuity that you may have between a Human League design of your game a massively multiplayer online game where the actual intensity of the game is designed by digging and then south and then science that's at Shands and you also heard there from. Bill Thompson I love this idea of solving scientific problems in the gaming environment I know because it's it's 18 years since. We could just process radius it was on a computer in the back and got some visualizations we've covered Galaxy Zoo where people are encouraged within the setting to look for galaxies and now we've got this and I think it really does make it much more engaging for the players and crucially you have a very easy way to access a community of people who are interested in these sorts of puzzles and that's one of the gamers that's why the evil Lauren and you can give the rewards within the game as well they don't have to be financial rewards so it's a perfect way of doing it and what's nice also is they did it last year about proteins they're now doing it with except it's this year so each year they can pick up a new challenge and hope to help parents to the sum total of scientific knowledge so it's lovely What a great note on which to end Bill Thompson thank you very much indeed for that I'm Karen Michel the producer is calling Grant and we'll see you next time take half Ikes good bye. 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