salesforce yet maybe answers my next question because we are talking about 15 years in business and you are just a serial entrepreneur and a serial startup entrepreneur. but my calculation, it would be time to start the next company, wouldn't it? but you are not going to do that. >> know. i think i started multiple companies because the first company became quite successful pretty fast. and i thought it may have been a fluke. so i wanted to prove that startups can be done. it seemed all right after that. but having done them successfully, i know that i can do one more startup and i want to do something big, something lasting. 40% of -- for their secure transformation. in today's world, especially when cyber attacks are a big issue. >> i want to get back to security in just a minute but i want to finish up our discussion on success and how big it got. you are very humble about your wealth. and i'm not going to concentrate on it here. but i do want to back, fact checks of the. i read somewhere that you are the righteous richest indian american in the states. have you read that? >> i certainly don't pay attention to it. i look at how many customers are we helping and how happy our customers are. i like at the nps goal. as compared to an average nps of --. that's the kind of data that gets me excited. >> i will tell you, if i was the richest irish-american in the united states, i would also look at the nps goal but occasionally i would look at the rich part, too. but on a serious note, i do want to get some advice, how you may be preparing to use it for recessionary times. i also caution our viewers, let's not talk ourselves into a recession. but that doesn't mean we are not going to prepare. what sort of things are you doing to prepare for tighter times, to make sure that the building's foundation is secure? >> you know, when you start a company with your own money, you generally are more prudent in spending that if you take a bunch of third-party money. so we have all built it in a responsible and prudent way, but we do need to be mindful how the next stage of budgets and expansion goes. it so happens that every business is trying to be more agile and more competitive and to do so, they are trying to do the big transformation. as part of transforming application, they want to transfer the network and security which is what we do. so, why we do that. we are actually reducing cost because a lot of old technology, fireball firewalls, vpns, they have to be removed. they are cost-saving, that's one cyber protection. a number two, we make businesses more agile. we think we'll have far less impact on any recession that a lot of other companies. >> i think you are right. and i'm going to ask about that. let me ask about work from home. has things like that helps the company save money or is that sort of irrelevant to the bottom line? >> it has helped a little bit on the travel expense side of things. but the buildings and office, all the stuff we have is still in place today. we are, we have a policy that employees can work from home or work from the office. but what we have done over the past 2 1/2 years helped so many businesses to have employees work from anywhere because that's a dream with which i started it. applications are, users are anywhere. you don't have to do the traditional firewalls. >> you been in business to various, we are talking about some of the orioles earlier startups, for a while. you have been through recessions, 2001 and the big one in 2009. what have you taken away from being a business leader in those times that you are using today? >> companies who are responsible, who have a good financial position, you actually double down and invest in areas during that time. just remind the audience, it was started during the recession of 2008 and 2009 timeframe. so let's go, double down, built a great product and bring to market. i think the mistake many don't prioritize their expenses too well. you double down, some of the other areas, you are a little bit more disciplined, so to speak. >> lastly, you just got back from india and i know you made that trip fairly often. but this time you're meeting with government officials, ncos, what were you trying to accomplish? >> my trip had two things to do. one, this is my first international trip since covid happens. we have about 2000 employees and india, good number of them were hired during covid and they've never seen each other. so for me to get close to my employees, engage with them, was very important. number two, just like the u.s. government, the indian government can do a lot more about cyber and protect its national defense. we are exploring ideas to see how we can help them in the cyber journey thereon. those of the big two drivers. >> i also saw some photographs of you planting trees or some executive planting trees. i'm not sure how big of a hole you doug. >> it was a small hole. we are very much into the environment, keeping it green, so we are 100% carbon neutral. it's an important topic, actually helps reduce the carbon footprint because the norm no longer have to buy and to play lots of security appliances, security boxes. i was born and raised in--. nature entries and all is very special for my heart. so planting trees, i could do it all day long. >> is the founder and ceo. thank you for being with us this morning and congratulations on 15 years. that's fantastic. i mentioned that jay and i spoke on our podcast. on the podcast we talk more about jay's humble beginnings, how he got his start in silicon dollars later, he still mows his own lawn. you can find it anywhere you find podcasts including apple d podcasts and google play. scott mcgrew , "press: here" will be right back. t, he more d. could they end up in you, your bodies, their prey? new studies indicate possible links to mutations in dna. an evil lie with a future's worth of harm. to the world, now you know. so sound the alarm. you are looking at videos from the u.s. department of justice as american agents working alongside spanish law enforcement sees the yacht, tango in mallorca, spain. welcome back to "press: here". that yacht is or was owned by a russian oligarch named victor. here's the attorney general. >> at the request of the united states department of justice, spanish authorities seized a super yacht longing to a sanctioned russian oligarch. pursuant to a warrant filed for the district of columbia, will now seek to have the vessel forfeited as a proceeds of the crime. >> we cannot take credit for the seizure of the tango, but perhaps you'll be behind the next one. they greeted a mobile app called signal my oligarch, they could identify assets owned by russian oligarchs available on the web and android phone. let me ask you first, how is your family? is everything safe? >> yes, thank you for asking. my family is totally safe. it's safe. >> what you trying to accomplish with the app? i assume it's to help the good guys and been give the bad guys, trip them up a bit. >> so basically, we are trying to help in this war in any possible way. we decided we decided to use our skills to help two more. so we are trying to connect and leverage persons who wants to help ukraine in this war, with the government who are responsible for freezing assets. so, the idea was, it's really easy for any oligarch to hide their assets by registering them on their family members and so on. my partner has tons of success in the financial industry and during the discussion, we decided that we can actually help governments to blockade those assets. and the solution that we came up with was the app because everyone has a phone and can follow the app and we make it really easy to use. so the boat crew can easily just put the location where it is both located and the description and report to us anonymously so nobody will know. >> i was going to ask you, let me ask you by your own personal safety first. but that the users as well. i would imagine the russians are rather displeased with this. >> well, somebody is taking place in this war on the front line, somebody like me trying to help in a different way, so iheare shooting guns, i am using my brains. >> as for the users, if i see or i know that the house or yacht or something belongs to a russian oligarch and i take that picture and say hey, i think this is something you should track down, then my identity is protected as well? >> yeah. we are not asking for any personal information and we are honestly saying to every user, consider our app. as a hack. so they are not using their personal email address, there offering another solution to replace your personal email address with encrypted and free to use email. they're asking for using, first name, last name, anything, we do not track anything or geo locations. >> just on the broader subject of technology, ukraine has become a real tech hub. there are a lot of silicon valley hubs that have locations temporarily suspended but ukraine locations in ukraine or work with the contractors in ukraine. why ukraine? what made ukraine such a tech hub at a time when tech is booming so much? >> i'm a freelancer and i also have my own agency in the business. and they are tons of customers for the united states and all over the world. they obviously were giving me feedback a lot of times. and the main feedback for the ukrainians itself was a very, very focused people. and very responsible people. a lot of time and is working on the project, they're asking me to find somebody for developments or from ukraine because they think ukrainians will produce the results. >> do you think we will return to that, god willing ukraine wins the war? what do you feel is ahead? you are on the ground there, you are in the tech industry. >> i think that, and i hope that ukraine have a huge potential to become a much, take a much bigger place and a lot of industries when we will win this war. i'm not just talking about i.t., but you know, a lot of i.t. guys, some of them most of them stayed here. but i'm definitely sure that most of them would return back, and yeah. >> lastly, just speaking generally to the american audience, what would you like people to know here from you as a ukrainian or from your family or anything like that? >> i would say, don't think that this is somewhere that, you know, on the other side of the planet. this war will hit everybody on this planet. and just do not forget, because i know that people start getting bored about the poor in general. so this is what i would love to what i would like to have us not forget. keep your support and all of my friends and family, i want to give a big thank you for everyone in the united states, the citizen supporting us. huge thank you. >> ride, stay safe and thank you ever so much for joining us this morning. and "press: here" will be right back. cheese two ways... any more questions? try my $5.99 double bacon cheesy jack combo. - [announcer] the more we learn about covid-19, the more questions we have. the biggest question now, what's next? what will covid bring in six months, a year? if you're feeling anxious about the future, you're not alone. calhope offers free covid-19 emotional support. call 833-317-4673, or live chat at calhope.org today. my 100% beef burgers are seasoned as they grill. like my new double bacon cheesy jack, with double the bacon and double the cheese. it's so good, i put my name on it! the double bacon cheesy jack combo starting at $5.99. order on the jack app today. welcome back. normally if i got an email promising $50 billion in free money, i would probably just got it. but this one the irs has $50 billion in tax credits available to small businesses which invest in research and development. a small business might not as much as a quarter million dollars tax credit. now joshua lee is the ceo of a company that helps small businesses get those tax credits. we are talking about tax policy on a sunday morning, and this is why we never get invited to any of those cool, boozy sunday brunch is. you know that right? >> absolutely. >> so those who are still sticking around to listen, i know there small businesses and startups that don't know about this at all. let's start with the most basic question. that is, what is a tax credit compared to attacks deduction? >> a question. the first thing is, if covid is going against their tax liability, so you have a dollar in credit, you can get that out. whereas it simply brings down your revenue or your income. so this is actually a bottom line figure when we talk about credit as opposed to a deduction which is above the line. >> so comparison might be the child tax credit that many people saw last year. parents were actually getting a check in the mail. this is positive money. >> that's right. regardless of your income, whether you earn money or, you can basically get the check back as a refund. dollar for dollar, cannot that offer liability, or it is a refund check. >> okay. so who qualifies for this? is that small veopment, they think they've got a b developing . is further from thdefinition broader. >> you are a very honest man, some of this sounds, i am so surprised by this loosey-goosey definition. we are using different ingredients. we are changing the packaging. that there are, we have that friend that runs a business out of his/her home, the business doesn't really do anything but it has a desk in the door and that qualifies. they have have a door to the outside and that's why i get to drive the fancy car because the company car. this is not, the definition may be somewhat vague, but this is still completely aboveboard and completely legal. right? >> absolutely. so this has been around for a very long time. this started actually in the light 9080s. so the credit itself has been around, definitely aboveboardth years, been more refined. one point, the rules of the regulations --. >> give me a hypothetical. we mentioned a small makeup company, give me another sort of hypothetical company that i wouldn't think of as being r&d. but this might be an example of a small business i'm familiar with that actually would qualify for an r&d tax credit. >> in my backyard, we literally had a company that was manufacturing cement. and you think something as old as time, but the very fats, looking at --, the process in which they make it, and then looking at the different variables. in what city are they making that cement, the humidity, and that actually was a very, very positive, just activity where you have to factor in a rich, geographic location. so even something like -- would qualify. so for example, company that was simply developing, like user, product, so we are just making it day in and day out and developers are always going to give us all the time and the money in the world, we could do anything. but looking at the process is, you are actually taking a look at the new way of doing it or more improved way of doing it. it doesn't even have to be successful. >> you don't have to be present. >> that was a game changer in 2050, most companies didn't realize this where you had to be profitable, you had to be used against liability, then 2014, 2015, they flip the script. >> you know how i asked that for a hypothetical example and you give me a concrete example so to speak. we can go with my dad joke for a while. that would be fine. i think it's going to surprise a lot of people. >> i mean, last year was a breakout year in terms of what they did. they did something like the paycheck protection program, and that was actually something that was unprecedented. and actually solidified it. there actually is non-diluted capital that exists. so it's a great example. and in that very same thread, we had over 5 million new businesses start last year because of the pandemic and people going out and starting businesses. surprise as people are doing business, trying to survive g a during hard times. it's their job of running the business and not understanding tax code are trying to find tax code. and that's what we do with artists and utilize software, we can automate and simplify that. >> joshua lee is the head of rds. i appreciate you being with us to talk about tax credits. just in case you are still not convinced that accountants and tax policy people are cool, we will leave you with josh rapping about tax. >> josef newgarden has done it at road america! >> awesome job out there. >> the level of competition is so high, the