Cant be to embrace conspiracy theories or to talk about alternative facts. Ill talk to senator jeff flake of arizona who took on his own Republican Party for not sticking to its principles. And the democrats. You have to say leadership has not been clever enough or Strong Enough or perhaps visionary enough. My interview with california governor jerry brown and how the democrats have managed to become a Minority Party in washington, in statehouses, and secret v voted out of the white house. We agree washington is not working. What can we do to fix it . Joining me for insight and analysis are nbc news chief Foreign Affairs correspondent andrea mitchell. Heather mcgee, president of demos and david french, Senior Writer for the National Review. Welcome to sunday and a special edition of meet the press. From nbc news in washington, the longest running show in television history, celebrating its 70th year, this is a special edition of meet the press with chuck todd. Good sunday morning. What was extraordinary about this week was how ordinary it was. The russia investigation heated up again. There was a shakeup in the white house again. Congress couldnt get anything done again. There was talk of reviving the Republican Health care rewrite again. Still two things stood out to us. One was that President Trumps Approval Rating hit 33 in the latest quinnipiac poll, his lowest number yet in that poll. And the rapturous welcome he received in West Virginia when he attacked the investigation and the news media. The russia story is a total fabrication this. Its just an excuse for greatest loss in the history of american politics. It just makes them feel better when they have nothing else to talk about. This is where we are. Our politics is broken. There are a lot of suspects, too much money, gerrymandering, growing cultural divide. But if theres one thing our parties can agree on, they dont agree on much. Today well focus on our broken Political Parties specifically. Consider this republicans have never seen more sentiment. They have more dpgovernors in multiple generations yet cant get anything done. E demographics are moving rel t relentlessly in the democrats way but they cant win elections. Both sides are focused more on the issue of winning the next election, firing up the base, talking to people who already agree with them, than they are about persuading people to eventually agree with them. Senator jeff flake of arizona took after his own Republican Party perhaps to his own peril when he wrote this in Politico Magazine this week. It was we conservatives who upon obamas electioned state stated our number one priority was not advancing a conservative poll i v si agenda but making him a oneterm president. Could senator flakes words describe democrats in the age of trump . Well goat that and to the democrats later in the broadcast. Joining me now to talk about the Republican Party is the author of that Politico Magazine column, senator jeff flake of arizona. Welcome back to meet the pre press. Thanks for having me on. Your book felt like twopronged attack, if you will, on the state of the Republican Party today. First on the character of the president and then more on the issue of whats happened to conservativism. I want to focus on the issue of trump and conservativism here. You wrote the following too often when it comes to trump we observe the unfolding drama with the rest of the country passively, all but saying someone should do something without seeming to realize that someone is us. In defense of the republican field and conservatives in 2016, a lot of conservatives warned the country that donald trump wasnt one. Take a listen. Donald trumps candidacy is a cancer on conservativism and it must be clearly diagnosed, excised, and discarded. Donald trump and lils policy views on issue after issue are virtually indistinguishable. Im not afraid of losing an election. Im afraid of losing our soul. It bothers me that someone comes to hijack that cause. Donald trumps not a conservative. I will go anywhere to speak to anyone before i let a con artist get a hold of the Republican Party and the conservative movement. Senator, why didnt conservatives listen to ted cruz, jeb bush, marco rubio, rick perry, all who laid it out starkly on the issue of donald trump and conservativism . Well, what i do in the book, borrowed from Barry Goldwaters tome in 1960, he thought that the party had kind of given in to the new deal and felt that he ought to put a blueprint forward for conservativism. I think today conservativism has kind of been compromised by populism, and people might say, well, we have the house, we have the senate, we have the white house, republicans do, but not long ago we had that in 2006, and we lost it because i dont think we acted very conservative are with all the spending and Everything Else that went on. So i think that just because we have the house and senate and the white house we cant rest easy and we cant say that populism is a governing philosophy because i dont believe that it is. What i am curious, what motivated you to write this book . Donald trumps character or this issue with conservativism that youre just making the argument and others have made to me before that actuallies go back 20 years . Well, i started writing this book before donald trump became president. But i am concerned at the direction that the partys going. Protectionism in particular, kind of the antiimmigrant fervor. Those kind of things i dont think are going to propel republicans into the future. I think demographics are against us in that regard and i think that weve got to do something different. I guess i go back, if donald trump, you thought he was a man of good ccharacter, but was stil touting the same populism, protectionism, as you just described it, when it comes to trade issues, some things that have been stuff that conservatives have argued against for years, would you have written this book with the same tone . Well, i do think that its not to be a conservative isnt just to follow conservative principles in terms of limited government, the economic freedom, free trade, but it is conservative in terps of comportment and behavior. And i dont think that weve soon that out of the white house. Its not conservative on foreign policy, for example, to keep your allies guessing as to where you are and what you support. A conservative is steady and measured and sober in terms of implementation of diplomacy and use of force. And i think that that is lacking and i think that we of got to change course in that regard. Well, let me ask you this what would you going in hindsight now, what should the conservative movement have done in 2016 that they didnt do . You know, mitt romney spoke out, National Review did a famous never trump endorsement, if you will, endorsing anybody but. None of it seemed to work. In hindsight, is there anything you would have done differently as a conservative leader . Well, im not denying that populism isnt popular. Thats why its called populism. The problem is i think its a first and foremost a duty of conservatives to tell the truth to the constituency. And its easy to point to a shuttered factory and say, hey, if we just negotiated better trade deals, then those jobs would be there when really its automation and productivity gains. Its much more complex. My concern is that if populism is a sugar high and once you come off it, its particularly troublesome for the party. And so i wish that we would have been more truthful with the e lkt r electorate in terps of what we can and cannot do in washington. But you were pretty rough on some conservatives. Look, the movement was split, right . You had some that stuck to their guns on this, and others that you called willing accomplices. In fact, you write this on page 110, we to forgot to affirm in a voice loud and clear, yes, we are proud republicans but we believe in country before party. We forgot to do that. We were afraid to do that. Youre clearly not afraid to d that. Is your party . Is the conservative Movement Still afraid . Well, i do think that we of soon more people ready to stand up, and i wish that we as a party would have stood up, for example, when the birtherism thing was going on. A lotpeople did stand up but not enough. Did you do enough . That was particularly ugly. Just curious, did you . On that i any i did. But on other things as well, i mean, when our party, you know, during rallies when the chants lock her up, you know, we should. The party for jailing your political opponents. And anybody at that rally, anybody at those rallies ought to stand up and say thats inappropriate. We shouldnt be doing that. I wish we as a party and e lkted officials would do more of that or when particularly ugly conspiracy theories come out or simply fake news, stuff that is demonstrably false, we ought to stand up and say thats just not right. What if nor leaders in your party dont . I mean, is there a point you say to yourself because i read this book, and again, i go back, its as much of an indictment on the Republican Leadership of the last 15 years as it is on donald trump. In fact, its more of an indictment on the Republican Leadership. And i am just curious, did you think about leaving the party . No. No. Not at all. Im a proud republican, lifelong republican. And im from arizona. Arizona tends to elect independentminded people and people who stand on principle. So im doing what i think my voters expect of me. But i think, for example, in 2006 when the party in particular had given way to inappropriate spending, earmark spending, couple of our colleagues ended up in jail, if you remember, the mantra drain the swamp was employed very effectively by the democrats in tribing the Republican Party at that time. I think had we stood up at that time when he wouldnt have lost those majorities in the house and the senate and i fear that we might do the same again. You had strong words in this book, and yet we looked at your voting record an at this point you vote more with the president than even some others in the senate who have taken the president on. According to our account, here 93. 5 of the time you have voted with the president. Is there a point where youre now you will vote potentially against your own ideological interests in order to send a message to Republican Leadership, in order to send a message to President Trump . I guess the question is, when does character trump ideology for you . Well, what weve don in the senate so far in the First Six Months of any presidency, were in the personnel business and all were doing really is approving the president s cabinet picks, justices. The president named the Great Supreme Court justice. I was glad to support him in that. Regulatory policy. I think hes on the right track. I think tax reform, he has good instincts there. Ill probably be with him. But on many things like trade i expect to vote against the president and ill stand up just like i did when president bush was there, i voted against no child left behind and the Prescription Drug benefit, but i was with him on most things. I think ill do the same here. Ill vote with the president when i believe hes right and vote against him when i think hes wrong. Okay. The tone youre taking here doesnt sound like the man who wrote this book. The man who wrote this book sounds like you feel as if theres a sense of urgency here. Things are so broke en in the conservative movement we cant stand pat anymore. But you sound like youre figuring out how to tiptoe around this still. Is there a point where youre not tiptoeing . Let me just say that during the voting, we havent voted on much where you could distinguish yourself from the direction the president is going. Having said that, some of the executive orders that hes taken, for example, on the muslim ban, well, it was a muslim ban during the campaign, what became the travel ban, i very much spoke up against that. I dont think thats whats going on around the countrys in our National Security interest. I dont think thats the direction to go. The immigration proposal that was put forward last week, i think its fine to move to a point system. We did that in the bipartisan bill that we did in the senate. But you cant cut immigration, legal immigration, in half and so ill stand up against that. And the behavior in the white house as well. I mean, referring to our colleagues across the aisle as losers or clowns is just not the direction to go if we are going to solve the problems in a conservative way that we nood to. So ill stand up every time to the president when hes doing things that i dont think he should be doing, but in terms of votes, we havent had that many other than personnel to distinguish ourselves either way. How do you fix the senate, though . Its a very leadershipdriven operation. Both parties have accepted this premise that the rank and file are not to decide where legislation goes, only the leadership. Part of your book indicts that leadership. How should Mitch Mcconnell respond to your book . Well, i think that we realize the limits of what we can do, you know, with one party, with just republican votes. And im not faulting Mitch Mcconnell at all. He is a tough job. But i do think that were going the sit down across the aisle with our colleagues and fix these things. If were going the fix the big things that we nood eed to fix particular our debt and deficit, that has to be done with republicans and democrats. Theres no way one party will take the risk. Thats what is so broken about our politics is we just cant get together on the big things and as conservatives we simply cant enact conservative policy if we continue these tactics. Im going to have to leave it there. Well discuss the lost middle in american politics up next when we dptget a chance. Senator jeff flake, thanks for coming on. Appreciate it. Thank you. Up next, were going the look at how the divisions within the gop are handcuffing and frustrating the president right now, especially when it comes to his favorite topic, russia. And later, well look at the troubles the democrats are face with california governor jerry brown. And as we go to break throughout the show, youll see some trends and statistics about how our politics has changed in the last generation. First up, simply how the redblue map has evolved in the last 40 years from 76 to 16. music plays throughout this is not a cloud. This is a car protected from storms by an Insurance Company that knows the weather down to the square block. This is a diamond tracked on a blockchain protected against fraud, theft and trafficking. This is a financial Transaction Secure from hacks and threats others cant see. This is a patients medical history made secure while Still Available to their doctor at their fingertips. This is an asteroid livestreamed to millions of viewers from 220 miles above earth. This is ai trained by experts in 20 industries. Your industry. Hello. This is not the cloud you know. This is the ibm cloud. Built for your business. Designed for your data. Secure to the core. The ibm cloud is the cloud for enterprise. Yours. Yours. When you have a digital notebook to capture investing ideas that instantly gives you stock prices, earnings, and dividends. An equity summary score that consolidates the stock ratings of top analysts into a single score. And 4. 95 online u. S. Equity trades. You realize the smartest investing idea, isnt just what you invest in, but who you invest with. Welcome a back. Panel is here. Dan balz, heather mcghee, andrea mitchell, and david french. David, im going let you take this start here. Youve among the more prominent, you were recruited to run for president did that actually get i know, sometimes youre like um, i am struck by senator flakes, its a twopronged attack on the party, trumps character, conservatism, what should what are you gleaning from this . Well, what im gleaning from this. Lets keep this very real. Okay. We focus an awful lot on politicians and what are politicians doings, but, theres the people. And i live in the middle of trump country. My precinct went for trump by about 72 , what i can tell you, there is a market for what trump is selling. Uhhuh. And we cannot ignore and cant focus complete oi on washington. What we are overrun is negative polarization. This is what the Pew Foundation has measured. People are supporting republicans not because of what they stand for, but because theres so much hostility to democrats. And thats, thats what its about. Its about fighting, fighting we can fighting. Its funny you say that. Listen to Mitch Mcconnell, we have audio, fancy farm pick mic, heres his explanation for the upside of not Getting Health Care done, take a listen. Even on the night we came up one vote short of our grand reveal to replace obamacare. Feel better, Hillary Clinton could be president. Talk about just underscoring davids point right there, dan. And its, you saw that with President Trump this weekend in West Virginia. The same kind of message. Its an antianti message. Theres little that either side frankly has put up positively since trump was elected president and before that. I dont think that we know this didnt start with donald trump, this condition that were in, but that, that is whats driving. If you look at the statistics on how people feel about their own party over the last 25 years, its basically the same. They feel as good about their party as they did 20 or 25 years ago. When you look at how they feel about the opposition party, that line has gone straight down. Wait until you see a marriage stat im going to show people when it comes to marrying of the opposite political party. I guess the question is when the Republicans Party trump or the fact that they, they dont know what the definition of conservative is right now . I think its a combination. Its partly because they have this republican president who is not really a republican and not really a conservative. And, what jeff flake was talking about is that he voted against Prescription Drugs, he voted against the george w. Bush proposals that busted the budget in his view. He views himself as a real conservative. Hes making a distinction between conservatism and populism, and i think thats a good conversation to have for republicans as well as democrats. What youre seeing, david, in your precinct and elsewhere and certainly in West Virginia which is ground zero of trump country, is, anger against elites. People feeling that theyve been passed over, anger, you know, you see the state, the stats on anger against league colleges, even among those collegeeducated. Extraordinary. So its anger against all of us, the media, as well, and trump has just tapped into that. And i really appreciated that jeff flake said the locker up, those cries at the Republican Convention by Michael Flynn no less, the call and response was really a nayier of what i view as the Republican Party. She referenced a stat here i want to put it up here on this issue, antiintellectual streak, 58 of republicans believe colleges and universities have a negative effect on the way things are going in this country. That is a i mean, it was a startling, wait a minute, i thought we all agreed college is good. We can have a debate about openness in ideologies at universities, but when did we go all the way there . Well, i think you really have to sort of follow the threat of this narrative. You know, republican strategist began to really recognize how much more highly educated folks were trending towards being more liberal. And we can talk about why that might be, republicans would say its a nefarious liberal bias on liberal campuses, its the more than you study the history and the world, you understand how weve fallen short and you want to tend to work more veraciously towards those goals, but if you look at rightwing media. A narrative has taken root, its like the liberal outrage campus of the day. And thats why thats coming from. Theres been a spotlight, a distortion of the news of what is coming out of college campuses, its very clear, you start to see it pop breitbart and fox news and then it moves into the republican voter. You were just telling me a story of somebody accusing you of being in your ivory tower and it was a republican with a pen initiation. I was talking about character and politics and ivy league lawsuit conservative student told me a i was an ivory tower thats the right wing talking point now. And youre an iraq war veteran. But i will say this about the college and university piece, and im sure well get to this later. Nobody made up the berkeley riots, nobody made up the attacks on, you know, on Charles Murray at middle berry, the craziness at evergreen state college. These things are actually happening. And they do really cast actually happening, but also young people who are First Generation College students are going to college and having more opportunities than they ever would have had, but the right wing media is focussing on making a National Story out of a speaker coming to campus. And free speech its a distortion. Throughout the ivory league and elsewhere, and the elite schools, there are free speech mandates really to permit these speakers. It is as heather points out, just the sort of outliers who get focus i want to go back to the issue, if this were simply a debate about conservatism versus populism, it would be one thing, but its trumps character, dan, that frankly complicates the debate for the right. Well, it does, although, i think theres two problems with the Pregame Party has, and two different debates that theyre having. Theres the debate that was o during predonald trump which was, in a sense kind of a ted cruz view of the world versus the marco rubio view of the world. Do we need a hard line conservative to carry our banner or do we need to have something that someone who reaches out and expands the coalition . That debate got smothered in 2016 my donald trump who brought in populism. Now you have this multiple clash within the party. And trumps behavior, trumps style, trumps operating style, changes the way a lot of people think about all of those aspects. I think that senator flake has done a great service, actually, to the debate. I think that what hes doing right now is extremely important, you know, he says, we, the Republican Party, created donald trump. I think that his diagnoses are spot on. I think his prescription about what to do about it is cosmetic. I mean, he says, you know, basically that donald trump is now a threat to republican, only the congress can save him. Stop him, and then he just falls a little bit short. David, what should we do . What is it . That was youre still voting with him. Is he a threat or not if your well, everyone sees a conservative, i view you praise him when hes wrong, critique him with hes wrong, but you make the overall larger critique that something is very broken in the political culture and hes a big part of that. And so you can vote for lower tax rates, but dont lose sight of the Bigger Picture which says, donald trump is doing something to american politic that is very, very negative. Im going to have to make that the last thing. Were going to get into this. We have more time for all of you, i promise. Coming up, the man who embodies many of the changes the Democratic Party has gone through over the last four decades. California governor jerry brown. burke at farmers, weve seen almost everything so we know how to cover almost anything. Even a swing set standoff. And we covered it, july first, twentyfifteen. Talk to farmers. We know a thing or two because weve seen a thing or two. We are farmers. Bumpadum, bumbumbumbum her long day as anne. Hair stylist starts with shoulder pain when. Hey joanne, want to trade the all day relief of 2 aleve with 6 tylenol . Give up my 2 aleve for 6 tylenol . No thanks. For me. Its aleve. Whats that . P3 planters nuts, jerky and seeds. I like a variety in my protein. Totally, thats why i have this uh trail mix. Wow minty. P3 snacks. The more interesting way to get your protein. Nbc sports, home of the olympic games, the nhl, the nafb nascar playoffs and super bowl lii only on nbc. Welcome to the us bank nbc sports report. And just a few miles down scotlands north sea coast from the birthplace of golf is kingsbarns, well take you there shortly for final round coverage of the womens british open. And hi again, everyone. Jimmy roberts with you. A full day of sports from around the globe on nbc this weekend. We start across the pond