Street firestorm this week. Author Michael Lewis joins our roundtable to talk about why he thinks the markets are rigged for the benefit of insiders. From nbc news in washington, the worlds longest running television program, this is meet the press with david gregoy. Were going to get the latest on the fort hood tragedy in a minute. First a little news. As time is running out, there are some big developments in the search for the black box from that flight 370. For the latest on the search, heres my colleague ian williams in perth, australia this morning. What have you learneded . Good morning. The search reached a new level of intensity today with ships and aircraft racing to a remote part of the indian ocean where a chinese vessel claims to have detected faint noises which it says are on the same frequency as those emitted by the black box flight recorder of flight 370. It says it heard those noises on friday and then again over a 90second period on saturday. The Australian Agency which is overseeing this search said this it is an important lead, but it also urged caution. They said there may be other leads but it does need to be verified. So its sending more sonar gear into that area. Separately the australians said today the u. S. Locator the device being dragged behind an australian ship also detected faint sounds this morning in an area 300 miles away from where the chinese are. So clearly, they cant be the same thing. This is a new stage of it the search. There is great urgency because the batteries on the black box are fast running out of power. But certainly, they are now chasing every lead they can, david. All right. Ian williams, thank you so much. Again, the battery is a big issue. Time running out there. Thanks. Now to the latest from fort hood. Witnesses say a dispute over a request for a pass to leave the base led specialist ivan lopez to shoot and kill three people and himself wounding 16 others, and hes being evaluated at the same time for post Traumatic Stress disorder all of that happening at the same time. His family says his Mental Health was affected by the recent deaths of his mother and grandfather, all of that happening this week. Im joined from sarasota, florida, by admiral mike mullen, former chairman of the joint chiefs of staff. He served president s bush and obama as their top military advisor overseeing the campaigns in afghanistan and iraq. Admiral, welcome. Always good to have your perspective. Good morning, david. Good to be with you. I want to talk about the Mental Health aspects that are troubling in this case and beyond for our returning veterans. Let me ask the specific security question. Just within the past couple weeks in the independent review after that Navy Yard Shooting here in washington, secretary of defense hagel said there are still troubling gaps when it comes to security on our military bases. And at fort hood, a second shooting spree in five years, different circumstances but two in five years. Somethings not working when it comes to securing our bases. Well, i would certainly agree with you, david, in the sense that weve got challenges that we have to address as a result of this incident. First and foremost, i just my thoughts and prayers go out to the families of those that weve lost and the wounded as well as the family of the shooter. Many, many are suffering, and i think as general millie said the other day, first and foremost we need to reach out to those families and make sure that they are supported. Secondly, with respect to your question, i think we need to certainly take a look at securing our bases for our people. Right now, in our 13th year of war, its a time of great stress for our military. Weve been through a lot. And as we come out of these wars and cop back home, i think just what ive seen in this particular example indicates the mix of characteristics and issues that are associated with that stress. To include anxiety and depression, possible post Traumatic Stress, mild tbi, dealing with financial and personal problems, i think our force because its been away so much, has not had to deal with those as directly as they may have in the past. And now that were going to be home more, i think were going to see actually an increased number of challenges associated with that. We all need to wrap our arms around the force to help them deal with those. Ill follow up on that but i want to stick to the security issue itself because when Something Like this happens, there is in part a debate over guns, over security, over tightening up the internal potential threats within a military installation. Mike mccaul, chairman of the House Homeland Security committee was on fox news this week saying this is an issue of greater arms. We ought to allow our returning soldiers to be armed on these military installations. Not just security. Heres what he said. Ill get your reaction. They are trained in warfare. They can carry weapons in warfare. It seems to me that there is some logic to allowing them to carry weapons on a military base where they can defend themselves. The problem here and with fort hood, the prior nadal hasan case, was that they couldnt defend themselves because they were not allowed to carry weapons. Does this trouble you, that perspective . Or do you think thats part of the answer . Well, i think we need to review the security procedures. Im not one as someone whos been on many, many bases and posts that would argue for arming anybody thats on base. I think that actually invites much more difficult challenges. I think weve got to get at the issues that are singled out in this particular incident with respect to the individuals. Certainly we have to do everything we can to protect everybody thats on base. And im sure this incident will cause secretary hagel to review those procedures, but i would be much more in the camp of fixing it that way and focusing on the individuals than routinely allowing arms on any base, military base in the country. Admiral, you talked about the country putting our arms around our returning veterans. I go to a lot of sports games. A lot of hockey games where you see several breaks during the game to pay tribute to those returning heros. Everybodys on their feet standing ovation. But at the same time, ive seen surveys indicating people dont really the returning veterans dont feel like most americans understand what theyve been through. So what he specifically do you think is not being done enough with regard to dealing with the kind of stress, anxiety, and more severe mental strain that these returning veterans are facing . Well, i dont think this is just a military problem, david. I think this is a national problem. We have been short of military help professionals in the military just as we are dramatically short throughout the country. We have to provide the resources and the research to get at these issues like post Traumatic Stress, mild tbi, we need to develop objective measures so that we can unequivocally state what the problem is. Thats one thing. As we deal with our vets particularly those so many that are transitioning back into communities throughout the country, we need to focus local leadership on their future, which includes their health, their education, as well as employment. We also need to focus and include family members from beginning to end, whether its Mental Health challenges or whether its employment. Our spouses and families our kids have been through a lot and theyve been unbelievably supportive. This is a great military. And i wouldnt want one incident like this to tarnish the reputations of the hundreds of thousands of vets in our country who run businesses, who teach at schools, who Coach Little League teams, and who make a big difference in our community now and will for the future. That said, we do need to deal with the challenges that i specifically suggested we focus on. And when you talk about tbi, youre talking about traumatic brain jury which is a huge issue for a lot of those surviving warfare when in previous generations they may not have. Is this ultimately going to be the veterans administration, eswhere, the government, the pentagon, spending more dollars to be able to put their arms around our returning veterans . Well, im taken back david in the 21st century that we know so little about the brain. So i think the president s initiative with respect to brain mapping is critical. Im involved in a Research Effort at nyu to look at the ability to determine biomarkers, voice patterns, blood measurements that would indicate both post Traumatic Stress and tbi as a problem. So this really is a National Resource issue. One that again, im surprised we know so little about in the 21st century and i think we need to do a lot more to try to understand the brain and how these injuries affect our young people who have done so much for our country and that we really have to take care of in the future. Admiral, when youve been on this Program Numerous times in uniform when you were serving as chairman of the joint chiefs, we would talk about afghanistan. I dont want to let you go without covering this. Its an important weekend with elections in afghanistan. The post hamid karzai era. Theres a striking new book by car lot at that time gall entitled the wrong enemy. I want to read a portion that struck me and a foreboding sense of whats to come. She writes militant islamism is a juggernaut that cannot be turned off or turned away from. Pakistan is still export militant terrorism and will not stop once Foreign Forces leave its borders. The repercussions of the u. S. Pullout are already inspiring islamists who are comparing it to the withdrawal of the soviet union after zits tenyear war in afghanistan. They are the real enemy in this war and have not finished fighting. They fully intend to reclaim afghanistan and set their sights on horizons beyond. A pretty troubling picture. Is that the future once u. S. Forces leave afghanistan and that region in pakistan, as well . I think its very difficult to predict the future. None of us have been very good at it. Certainly i would agree, its an area of great concern and will continue to be because of the islamists, the militants that are there. I this i its going to be the charge for the International Community at large as well as the leadership in many both afghanistan and pakistan to address these issues. But its a very worrisome future with respect to that particular area. Im actually encouraged by the elections in terms of the turnout. That said, im i continue to be concerned about the overall effects of the government of afghanistan on its people because of the lack of addressing supporting them and corruption and those kinds of things. Pakistan certainly also has its challenges. In the end, i actually in longterm, i have hope for the people in that part of the world. I dont think its an area that were going to be able to neglect. Were not going to be able to walk away from it, and there are lots of things in addition to military support which are required in order to address the challenges for those people. All right. To be continued. Admiral, always good to have your perspective. Thanks so much. Thank you, david. Well switch gears now and talk about the issue of money in politics. And the debate over whether american democracy is for sale. In a 54 decision the Supreme Court eliminated limits how much money individuals can donate in any twoyear election cycle, how much can be donated to a single candidate remains in place. To debate, im joined by the man hop won that case, businessman Shaun Mccutcheon and Robert Weissman president of Public Citizen which argues for Additional Campaign finance limits. Welcome to both of you. Certainly a fascinating issue. Heres my thing, mr. Mccutcheon. Heres a new reality, right in the american democracy for sale . How do you have candidates in the future now going to the wealthiest donors in the country and saying i want an unlimited amount of pone . How does that is not at somepoint lead to corruption . Again, i think this is an issue about independent private people exercising free speech and regardless of economic status, all americans are entitled to free speech. So this is a First Amendment guaranteed right under the constitute. All americans are entitled to and the Supreme Court agreed with you in a 54 decision and upheld that. If you sit back as a citizen and say i want to be politically involved. If im a person of great means and ive got all these candidates saying i want an unlimited amount of money, do you not worry that leads to corruption . I am a citizen. Im interested in being involved in the process. Im interested in change for the better. Thats what motivated me to support candidates. And again, its about your right to support as many candidates, committees and pacs you choose. Its a political activity. Its like robert said, its the most fundamental right in this country is our right as the people to select our leaders. So heres what Justice Stephen breyer wrote in a dissenting opinion. In part he writes what has had to do with corruption . Everything to do with corruption where enough money calls the tune the general public will not be heard, Robert Weissman. So shaun mccup offian as an individual may have his free speech being honored but is he going to count as much as the super wealthy in trying to influence elections . What the court decided was that individuals have the right, a First Amendment right to give up to 5. 9 million to candidates, parties and political committees. There are only a few hundred people in this country who have the wherewithal to do that. Theyre going to do it and theyre going to expect Something Back in return. Exactly as Justice Breyer said, what that means is those people have the stranglehold over how the process works and everybody else is left out of the game. All the money in politics is still out there. Theres lots of money in politics. Again, individual people exercising freedom of speech is a good thing. Bringing competition to the process. I mean, how are these candidates, these good managerial type candidates that cant sell fund, the candidate, him or herself can donate infinite money to their own campaign. What about candidates that cant, you know, afford that . You know, they need donors, individual private donors like me and others that can donate directly to their campaigns and we shouldnt be limited to nine candidates or ten candidates. But the issue that im getting to is you as an individual with free speech to be able to give to as many candidates as you want, do you really have the kind of say as the Political Parties will had strengthened here outside groups will be strengthened, those who would come together in a committee fashion, wont they overwhelm the individuals ability . Robert, to have the kind of impact that mr. Mccutcheon says is so important . Well, first of all, he says he wants to support a lot of candidates. He is free to do that and he was free to do that before the decision. Hes not talking about support. Hes not talking about handing out leaflets or a sign in his yard. Hes talking about the ability to the give money to candidates. Thats not the same thing. It doesnt deserve the same kinds of First Amendment protection. The people who have the wherewithal to give multimillion dollar checks to Party Leaders will have a lot of influence but its going to be at the expense of the rest of us. Do you worry theres a quid pro goal . The watergate era brought on the idea of more of these regulations. Is that what you see here . Thats for sure going to happen. The chief justice said thats the only thing we should think about whether theres quid pro quo meaning bribery. Thats going to be a problem with this much money sloshing around. The bigger patron is brought influence and a tilted Playing Field. The chief justice said we dont care about those things. The American People do care about those things and he should. To mr. Mccutcheons point, kind of like when you try to keep water out of the basement. Water always finds a way into the basement. Money is in politics in a huge way. Wouldnt you rather have it be more transparent, not citizens united, the knock against that was it created outside groups that didnt have to disclose. Here you have money coming in at least the Political Parties are strengthened. Perhaps you have more transparency. Theres a problem with the existing system. It was a massively broken system before the decision in mccutcheon. What we really need is a constitutional amendment to sweep away what the Supreme Court is done and make it possible for we the people to exercise some sensible control over how our elections are run. Youd like to see this go further. As i said at the top, as an individual, you still have an individual cap what you can give to a candidate. Justice thomas said that should have been done away with, as well. Would you like to see that happen . We, ive been saying the whole time i thought some base limits made some sense but i think theyre a low number because you cant buy many ads with 5200. Again, this is about freedom of speech and an individual and its funny how he believes its about we the people. Thats what i believe. I believe its about individuals, the same kind of individuals ta came here in search of freedom and opportunity. But youre still not answering why you think as an individual youll have as much power as the megarich who not only can fund a super pac but can also empower committees to get together to influence an issue much more than an individual campaign or an individual can. Well, again, as the a fundamental right of selecting our leaders by the people. We dont need the government to select our leaders. We need the people to select the leaders. Its about political assembly, its a fundamental most important right. We do need we the people to select the leaders. The problem is when a few hundred people are able to spend multimillion dollars over the process, they are the one who have an outside influence over electing our leaders and deciding what those leaders will do once theyre in office. Are you for total transparency . If you give a check, should a campaign immediately put that up on their website so everybody can see its from you. Yes, sir. Doesnt seem to be working through congress yet. Doesnt have the support for it. These donations were talking abouting are transparent donations. Theyre all reported. Well see where Congress Wants to get involved now. Thanks to both of you very much. Thank you. Appreciate it. Well be back here in 90 seconds with our political roundtable to talk about all the weeks politics including this decision. President obama celebrated his hitting the Health Care Enrollment target he was after this week, but is the issue still a liability for democrats . Plus, should members of congress who represent one of the least liked institutions in america actually make more money . One congressman thinks perhaps they should and might get a little sympathy. And the politics of the selfie. What was wrong with this picture according to the white house . Well talk about it. Time now for cnbcs executive edge week ahead. Brought to you by the comcast business. About Business Internet . Ok, how about thirty seconds . At comcast business our internet is fast. Up to 5x faster than dsl from the phone company. And our phones better too. Switch to comcast Business Internet. Then add voice and tv for just 34. 90 more per month. Time to make the call. 8005016000 comcast business. Built for business. Cut [bell rings] this. Is jane. Her long day on set starts with shoulder pain. And a choice take 6 tylenol in a day which is 2 aleve for. All day relief. Hmm. [bell ring] roll sound action but with so much health care noe, i didnt always watch out for myself. With unitedhealthcare, i get personalized information and rewards for addressing my health risks. But shes still gonna give me a heart attack. Thats health in numbers. Unitedhealthcare. We are back. Welcome back. Thats harold ford with a cough. Kathleen parker, former enten congressman, harold ford, former New Hampshire senator and boston globe contributor john sununu who this week wrote a piece entitled obama care misses the target. Also former aol steve case. Hes an entrepreneur with a unique perspective on both the business and tech worlds. Were glad to have you with views on the political week that it was. Heres the cover of the week magazine that got my attention. Alive and kicking, president obama may be a little nicked up after this health care fight, but he seems like he had a fairly good week on this. Senator, do you not think so, hitting 7 million the enrollment figures . You still think it hasnt made the mark. No, its not about the figures. Its about reducing the number of uninsured in this country. We have 50 million uninsured. If you only look at the enrollment figure, you miss the question of how many of them were previously uninsured. So you have to multiapply the by about 80 probably will be the number that be actually pay. Get you down to 5. 6 and how many who were previously uninsured, 25 previously uninsured. Now youre down to 1. 4 million. Thats about 3 . Reducing the number of uninsured in america by 3 for how much money . 2 trillion. But steve case, it sounds like a republican argument to try to deal with the reality that people who didnt have insurance are getting insurance or their kids are now being allowed to stay on their policies or if you had preexisting conditions those are covered now. Republicans are trying it seems their best to say this thing isnt going to work. This is a pretty good sign its here to stay this week be dont you think. It will need to be modified and tweaked over time. But theres twos aspects i think not getting enough attention. In the long run i think it will be helpful particularly in fueling startups and entrepreneurships. One is the mobility. People can leave Big Companies to go to small companies. And the second weve seen in the last couple years, hundreds of new startups funded by Venture Capital lifts in the Health Sector trying to create Better Outcomes at lower cost with more convenience. There will be the debate about the acto you aerial tables but there are some positives embedded in in that ultimately will drive more innovation in health care. Harold, theres pure politics. Do the politics improve or is it still a bad pool for democrats . Its marginally improved. You have to look at the specific senate races. Its unclear if. The priors and hagans of the world will embrace this. I do think cases point is probably the best one in terms of where were headed out and how knew innovation and technologying will making it easier to capture those uninsured. The president promised three things. He would get everybody insurance, number two, pay for it, and three, make it affordable. The main question is affordability. Were going to cover more people. Were going to find ways to pay for it. Will we curtail costs Going Forward . The jury is still out there. Thats the argument the republicans have to show they have an answer to. Well, point Just Announced double digit increases, the biggest provider in california, double digit increases. The government could help defray that. Do premiums go up . Perhaps they will. Perhaps the government pays some of that bill. What harold was talking about wasnt subsidy, it was cost. The overall cost of the system. When premiums are going up double digit, youre not achieving which is why steves point is so important. I love the idea that entrepreneurs will come in and rescue this whole situation. Exactly. We could have solved the mobility problem with one act of legislation without an entire comprehensive program. However, i think the biggest problem, the biggest challenge for the democrats is not whether its 7. 1 million or 30 million, whatever the real numbers are. It is that in the process of this roll out as well as the signups to this point is that since we dont know what those numbers mean and since the rollout has been rather disastrous, the American People at a time when they have such distrust of government in general see quite clearly that the people that passed the bill never did have any idea what they were doing. And that is going to be the biggest obstacle. Say with that. I think thats important which is ultimately what is the impact . Not what theyre doing but what is the ultimate impact of this. Harold mentioned mark pryor running in arkansas and theres an add from americans for prosperity, the koch brothers. Heres a portion of that ad and how theyre trying to target mark pryor. Its like living in a haze. You dont know whether youre going to have insurance or whether youre going to be able to afford your insurance. It was taken away from us. Or it was given back to us. Or it was taken we dont know what its been now. I think the American People are tired of this constant angst, this constant crisis. They want certainty in their lives. So its the idea of whats the impact, the confusion already that thats the attack against it. Exactly. And by the way, i think you could find someone who doesnt have a southern accent who is confused by this act. We always seem to find the character hog seems a little countrified who cant just fathom this. There there are plenty of smart people equally hazy about what is really going on. The most portrait this week, the white house was right to talk about the numbers. But they shouldnt be doing a victory lap right now. Theres still problems with this. Theres confusion around this. Those kind of ads will continue to run across the country. When do the people have the courage to say whats working and not working . To make the case as the president tried to make morel went, more people getting health care, i dont think anyone is opposed. The question is legitimate ones raised that need to be answered. The confusion and cost are the biggest Political Risks. And those are things that arent going to improve dramatically between now and election. Lets talk about the debate whether a democracy is for sale. Steve case, when you follow all of this, my question which is how if campaigns come to you, steve case, and say youre a pan of means. Wed like you to give an unlimited amount of money to the campaign. How do you not raise the specter of corruption at some point down the line . I focus less on politics, frankly and more on policy. But i actually think were fighting last years battle. All this effort is around raising money to fund television ads. I hate to break this to you, but people are watching less television. The campaigns of the future are not going to be fought based on ads on television. Thats why account internet is emerging is a force to spread information, engage with people. I think the next wave of campaigns, it may take five or ten years but people will not be running the campaigns the same way the political Industrial Complex has been running them. The last election proved steve right. Karl rove and his organization spent 100 million and every one of their candidates lost. Its about substance and its about the voters ultimately choose and theyre all equal and all cast one vote. So the suggestion i think you are getting at in the last segment that money is decisive is not only wrong as steve points out, its probably going to be more wrong over time. Its how you reach them. Tuck reach them more economically. My question was more about if Shaun Mccutcheon believes that the individual is is king, my question, kathleen, is whether thats really the case. Is the individual or the individual campaign as strong as a consortium of committees outside groups and so forth who can have a bigger impact even if as steve says, over time maybe the Television Impact is reduced . I agree completely with na. And i had that thought as they were talking which is that social media sort ofinlaw rallizes the whole idea that this greater sum of money that people can allocate is going to be influential in the long run. I think that i agree so much with what Michael Kingsley wrote that you know, speech is money is speech and lots of money is louder speech that reaches more people. People do have the option of not paying attention to that speech. I wonder whether Sheldon Adelson who has this cattle call where he invites potential nominees who are sure to come, whether he at some point says its not worth spending 1 billion if im not going to get my guy in. Maybe i shouldnt be spending so much, harold. He has every right to do what he chooses to do. Far be it from me to try to tell him. Your discussion you had with mccutcheon and wise man about these monies, money is there. All this decision was to try to redirect some of the flow of it. Any chance you have to reempower the Political Parties which are accountable, the is transparent, they foster a coalition kind of thinking is a positive thing. If you take weissmans word and this is a disaster and you take Justice Breyer, perhaps it will invite chaos and collapse of the system that will force us to change all together. This decision doesnt alarm me like it has learned some of democratic friends. I think it will empower individual campaigns. Id much rather have a transparency ta way as opposed to having outside groups come in i have to answer to. Accountability is whats so important. A Candidates Campaign organization, campaigns run bad ads to be sure. But theyre much more accountable and responsive if they miss lead, if they misstate facts. Theyve got to respond and take down an ad. Its the super pacs that have the least amount of accountability in the civility. Im not a fan of disarming the Political Parties. 40 of our countries doesnt align with republicans or democrats and feel like theres something missing in the center. Thats where there is the ability for social media, people engage in their communities and kind of try to rebuild that sense. Part of this is money but part is getting people to engage in policy, engage in politics in a way that allows us to rebuild a sensible center. I think from what im hearing what stands out is right. The power of the individual to be discerning and to make up their own mind is really powerful. I dont know that that excuses the idea we have a political system so awash in money youve got to the work that hard to ignore it and focus on what you want. Something seems out of balance. The question is to what extent Congress Wants to get back into the attempt to try to regulate it. Were going to see you in a few minutes. Were going to take a break. Still to come, our new meeting america feature. As president obama weighs whether to build that ski stone xl pipeline, Kevin Tibbles visits a tiny midwestern town where his decision is going to have a pretty big impact and he hears both sides of the argument. T. Does affect the economy [ male announcer ] when fixed income experts. Work with equity experts. Who work with regional experts. Who work with Portfolio Management experts, thats when expertise happens. Mfs. Because there is no expertise without collaboration. You remembered earlier from Shaun Mccutcheon whose court case made waves this week. I tweeted with president obamas 2012 Campaign Manager jim messina as part of this weeks tweak the press interview series. He called the decision ridiculous. You can see the full interview on our website as part of meet the press 24 7 to bring the conversation to you all week along meethepressnbc. Com. Follow me on twitter for tweet the press and more im david welcome back. This week the u. N. Issued an unprecedented warning about Climate Change. Arguing extreme weather events will become even more common. The president s inability to get significant legislation combating Climate Change through Congress Makes his decision about the controversial keystone xl pipeline all the more politically difficult. So we wanted to get out of washington to meet some people directly affected by all of this. In todays meeting america, Kevin Tibbles visited a small midwestern town whose future will be shaped by the president s decision. A tiny spec of a nebraska town, steele city has some stories to tell. Covered wagons made tracks, headed west. Wild bill hickcock gunned down his first man not far from here, shot him in the back they say. These days, more often than not, things roll on by without a second thought. And in the weatherworn facades and store fronts, steele city shows its age. We used to have two grocery stores, a hardware store, livery barn, lumber yard, creamery, stockyards, basically dwindled away. Bill she willy runs the post office, is the towns maintenance man, and also the mayor. He won with 21 votes. Not bad really. Folksing are few here. 50. Give or take one or two. Sign out front says 84 people live here. But thats an owed sign. No ones ever struck oil in steele city, but an awful lot of it sure passes through. Four pipelines already converge on the outskirts. And a fifth the proposed keystone xl would bring canadian crude south en route to the u. S. Refineries. One since came through and built have been Good Business. Like as far as calling in ahead of time saying i have four days lunches. Can you have them ready at 12 10. Its been a Good Business having them come through. The salty dog is the only place in town to get a bite and really the only place in town. Margot dangelo lovingly serves up the chow. If i blow this one, i did it on purpose. Oh. Oh. Yea. I scratched. I won. And shes all for the pipeline. It does boost the economy for everyone around here. Me, my employees, that might mean difference in an employee getting a new car. Might mean a new air conditioning system for the tavern or i might be able to have a vacation. But there is considerable opposition on the other side. Some maintain abany pipeline spill would deb state nebraskas environment. Others say americans need to wean themselves from fossil fuels. For most nebraskians, the Vice President is a very secondary issue. And theres the question of money. We have 1. Million people in nebraska. We have 50 people in steele city. So you do the math. Dave be is a lawyer fighting keystone on behalf of farmers who want a better compensation package. A Good Neighbor would not say to you, you take this deal or youre out. Youre suggesting a little bit of bullying has gone on. And it has. The ones thats fighting this, i think its more political than anything. Do you ever worry in a couple of years, steele city may be no more. Oh, yeah, i am. Reporter it is the future that fuels the uncertainty in this part of the country. Theres plenty of past to go around. Black smithing was a way of life. We can get that white hot. Reporter so as local men breathe new life into this old stone building, keeping their craft alive, they look ahead. I welcome the future. I have to. If you dont, the countrys going to go backwards but dont forget your past. Reporter for meet the press, Kevin Tibbles. Interesting. Were back with our roundtable now. Kathleen parker, what are we learning as we listen on the ground there and get out of the washington part of the debate . What are we learning when we hear from the communities involved . Clearly people want the economy to grow, jobs 0 come through. I think if i were president obama, i would adopt steele city as the new american city. I would say lets get that pipeline going. Lets make sure we have everything in place to protect the environment as much as we can. And watch that little city blossom like a desert flower. Wouldnt that be fun. It is interesting, steve, that you know, theres different sides to this argument. Theyre in steele city where theres not a lot of people. They certainly depend on this. Theres an economic upside. A lot of the farmers in that area see an economic downside if they dont get a good enough deal to have the pipeline come through and the environmental piece, as well that through the area where the pipeline would cross and the National Resources Defense Council sent us this statement to make sure it was part of the debate. Ill put it on the screen. Keystone xl would significantly add to Carbon Pollution thats driving Climate Change and imperil the health and Drinking Water of millions of americans. Is the Climate Change aspect has to be tough for the president as i mentioned. Hes not getting a significant Climate Change legislation through congress is why this decision is so tricky. Obviously its balancing Environmental Concerns with some of the job concerns. My sense is the president probably will approve it. We shouldnt just focus on the energy we have today. We should focus on the energy we need tomorrow and invests in technologies and things like microgrids, some of the things around the natural gas boom have been driven by new technologies. We need Renewable Solutions and have to bet on the entrepreneurs to create the new technologies that do create the jobs, drives the economy, but do it in a way safe to our environment. Harold, you go outside of this fight in washington, you do learn something from people who are saying you know, we may be concerned about the environment but weve got a real potential upside with the economy. As you know, the state department has conducted study after study after study including one after the president claimed if approving the pipeline would exacerbate Carbon Pollution and he would be against it. The most recent report from the state Department Suggests this would not exacerbate the carbon footprint. Two, the economics of this are clear. In that piece, the only tension you really had was between farmers who thought they should be paid more. They probably should be. One of the things the president ought to think about is asking those up front to set aside money for potential cleanup. The concerns about disaster are real. Theyre thousands of miles of pipelines across this country already transporting crude. So lets understand that. More coming up in just a minute. Were going to hear from more of you as we progress here. Dont forget tonight on nbc, ann curry hosts a special documentary about Climate Change a year of extremes, did Climate Change just hit home. On topic there. Coming up, Michael Lewis the author of money ball on his new book and whether wall street is stacked against the little guy. Its created quite a buzz. Meet the press is brought to you by ge. We imagine a better world. Then make it real. [ girl ] my mom, she makes underwater fans that are powered by the moon. [ birds squawking ] my mom makes airplane engines that can talk. [ birds squawking ] my mom makes hospitals you can hold in your hand. My mom can print Amazing Things right from her computer. [ whirring ] [ train whistle blows ] my mom makes trains that are friends with trees. [ train whistle blows ] my mom works at ge. You stand behind what you say. Theres a saying around here, my mom works at ge. Around here you dont make excuses. You make commitments. And when you cant live up to them, you own up, and make it right. Some people think the kind of accountability that thrives on so many streets in this country has gone missing in the places where its needed most. 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Im with scottrade. announcer ranked highest in Investor Satisfaction with selfdirected services by j. D. Power and associates. Hey kevin. Still eating chalk for hearburn . Yea. Try alka seltzer fruit chews. They work fast on heart burn and taste awesome. These are good. Told ya im feeling better already. Alkaseltzer fruit chews. Enjoy the relief weve all met bill. He shows up once a month asking for money. You cant avoid him, but you can stop him from wasting 150 Million Pounds of paper every year. Ask bill to go online. Green bill is much cooler. The more you know. Were back. Are the stock markets rigged for the benefit of insiders . My next guest Michael Lewis has stirred things up this week. A lot of controversy over revelations hes made about whats called High Frequency trading in his latest book flash boys; a wall street revolt. Michael lewis, welcome back. Thanks for having me. You are so cool, with a tie, you always come 0 play. I can barely get out of bed on sunday morning. Your game face alone wins the awards. Isnt that the commercial . This book has made a lot of headlines. I want to cut to aspect of the controversy of it, who does it affect. Jim cramer on cnbc said if youre the average investor, youre not as concerned about the ups and downs of stock prices. Youre holding something for a long time. Whos most affected by this . Stove two answers to that question. Anybody who is not a High Frequency trader is competing on an unlevel Playing Field in the exchanges with the High Frequency traders. They have information advanced information about what you want to do before you do it. Who, but the price every time is pennies. Youre talking about trivial sums of money for an individual investor if you look at it that way. If you add up the skim or scalp, its billions a year. Thats a tax on investment capital. Thats not i dont think the big problem. The big problem is in order to sort of maximize the collisions between High Frequency traders and regular investors to the detriment of regular investors, the exchanges have been compromised and made way, too. Complicated. Theyre unstable. We have flash crashes. We have outages and ipos that dont work. The bigger problem is the integrity of the stock market and the relationship of wall street to the rest of society. So i think its not a if you are an individual Investor Trading on e trade, youre paying trivial sums of money. Its costing you probably trivial sums of money. Thats not the problem. The problem is what its done to the heart of capitalism. I saw the question where are the regulators. We get into a system that gets more and more sophisticated even the practitioners didnt understand what they were creating and how to manage it. Maybe here its pure manipulation. You write something where you say wall street firms not just the big banks but all of them have grown greatly more concerned than they were in the late 80s with the what some journalists might say about them. They have a lot more to fear. The reporting environment has changed. And its changed in this way. The firms are much more corporate. Theyre much more resistant to any kind of inquiry. But having said that, the people who work in these firms are much less loyal to the firms. Everybodys a free agent on wall street. Its much easier in system ways to get stories because people will go out for a beer with you and spill the beans about their firm because they dont care about the firm. But the firms themselves are opaque. I mean, theyre hard to understand. And the fact is that i mean, since the 1980s, the Financial Sector has gotten so much more complicated. This complexity is a form of opacity. At some point the complexity like with the subprime mortgage crisis, at the bottom of this was the problem that nobody understood what was in a subprime cdo. And at the bottom of this story that i just described, nobody understands the stock market. Its crazy. The stock market has become like a secret. How it works. And thats a question. They may worry less about their firm, but theyre worried as much or more than ever about their own reputation because the regulatory juteny and Political Risk to them is that much higher. Jamie dimon or blankfein, theyre quasi political figures, yeah, theyre corporate figures but feeling a political responsibility or accountability or exposure that theyve never seen before. Theres a bigger problem here. When i was growing up, i guess im getting old, you invest in a company with the idea some day that will company would be more valuable. 10, 20 years ago. Things got short and people were focused on the corner. Now wee focused on milliseconds. We need to get back more to a bit to last, invest in the bit to last, invest in the maybe theres policy changes necessary to incent for longterm buy and hold kind of investment which is whats critical to build our economy is to back these companies, particularly back the startups with longterm money, not the shortterm hot money. Its a question, too. To what extent wall street has changed as well as washingtons ability to prevent the next big thing from happening. I guess one of the questions i would have for michael as you talk about the confidence in the market and exchanges, whats the answer . Is it more regulation or different kind i have regulation or new exchanges . What would you recommend. The main character of this story is interesting. Theyre all starters wall street insiders and pieced together how the market is working from the inside. They come to the conclusion, once they discover what they discover, they go to the fcc. Its paralyzed. Its not that theyre not smart. They cant see the fcc ever taking action in advance of a crisis. But they see that like the problem is, well meaning regulation being gamed by really smart people in the market. You create the new regulation. Some comes along and games it. I think what theyve done, theyre market based solutions. The solution is disruptive entrepreneurship in the Financial Sector. The way you enable that is transparency. The problem here is that investor, im talking about the biggest hedge funds and puj funds all investors have no way of knowing how their stock market orders are handles. The reason they can be fleeced, they dont know what happened. If you can introduce transparency in that environment, then you introduce an incentive in the market for people to create a Fair Exchange and go to a Fair Exchange. Driving that transparent is important. The alternative is to ratchet everyone back and take away important technology. But the fact is that technology has driven spreads down, as made trading faster, has given assurances and some transparent sit to the individual investor and thats been enormously beneficial. You dont want to take that away. You have to distinguish between the computer and computer sacral ping. The technology has been fabulous for the individual investor. Michael, i cant wait to read your book. I feel like the fellow who was in a haze over the Affordable Care act. Still welcome. But thank you so much. What im feeling though is that this feels like the next generation of matches of the universe. Its all hubris and this hot dog attitude some people have on wall street. Im going to let that comment stand. Were continuing to continue it here, the book is flash boys. That is all for our conversation today. Well be back next week. If its sunday, its meet the well be back next week. If its sunday, its meet the press. Captions by vitac www. Vitac. Com america is the first to strike gold in sochi. Sensational. Tiger woods perseveres. Announcer this is nbc sports. Madison street, west of the loop in chicago where 20 years ago they built United Center and the home team built a tremendous following with room for them all. Over 21,000 to be here today for the Chicago Blackhawks and the st. Louis blues. Down to the ice, pierre mcgwire and hawks defenseman, brett seabrook. You have won your last two games but been kind of a roller coaster ride since the olympics have been