Transcripts For KNTV Dateline NBC 20151129

He did a lot of things that werent appropriate. It doesnt make him a murderer. You have a wolf in sheeps clothing. The sinister minister. Reporter the man of the cloth, inspiring from the pulpit. You went away feeling that youve learned something. Reporter marrying the faithful. He officiated over my son and my daughterinlaws wedding. Reporter counseling the troubled. He is so good at understanding how to comfort other people. Reporter but what if the minister is suspected to be not a man of god at all . I believe it was all a fraud. Reporter the minister role . The minister role. I think he was just hiding behind that hat. Reporter but, rather, a stranger in clerical robes carrying out the devils business. I believe he preys on vulnerable people. Reporter laying on hands where he shouldnt. Ministering to more than the soul. He would basically counsel his way right into their bedrooms. Reporter just who was the reverend Arthur Burton schirmer . God wants to hear you for his many admirers, he was the eloquent pastor making a joyful noise unto the lord with his christian quartet. A. B. To his friends, a smalltown methodist preacher in eastern pennsylvania. He was our friend, our confidante, just an allaround good guy. Reporter darryl cox sang alongside a. B. For 20 years. Hed seen the freshfaced young pastor grow into an accomplished and devoted preacher. All of the things that he helped my family with over the years, he was always there. Reporter hed watched his friend the pastor raise his musicloving family. A. B. And his wife jewel even performed together. They sang together many, many times. They were quite the duo as far as duets were concerned in the church. Just seemed like the allamerican couple. Reporter the couples daughters julie and amy. My mom and dad were people who loved each other, took care of each other. Were just a very close family. Reporter but a deep sadness fell over the schirmers in 1999 when a. B. s wife of 30 years suddenly died. His daughter recalls their father being overcome with grief. He was very lonely. It was a hard year after. Reporter he was a sad guy, huh . Uhhuh. Very lonely. Reporter but life goes on and their father did, in time, meet someone who would become their stepmother a recently divorced woman named betty who shared his love for running and the outdoors. They just seemed like they were best friends. I mean uhhuh. Best friends. It really seemed they had this this closeness. I loved betty. Reporter and betty was loved by everyone. Her sister tina remembers how she made even strangers feel instantly comfortable. No matter who you were, it was always, hello. And you got a hug. Everybody got a hug. Reporter and out of everything in her life, betty was enormously proud of her grown son, nate novack. So if First Impressions count, what were your First Impression of a. B. Schirmer . I knew he was a pastor. So i had respect for him right away. I thought he was a decent guy for my mom. Reporter and, in fact, it was the reverend, his stepfather, who officiated at nates wedding at a beach a couple of years later. A. B. Had embraced his new wifes big family and they him. They were thrilled to see their sister find such happiness after coming out of a long marriage that had soured. Bettys mother, jean, was just delighted that her daughter had found such a fine, upstanding man. He was so nice. You know, we just didnt think there was anybody better than him. Reporter with this fresh chapter in his life opening up, a. B. Took a new church posting as the pastor of Reeders United Methodist Church in the rural poconos of northeastern pennsylvania, about two hours away from his old church in lebanon. Nate said his mother was homesick at first. She was upset, i think, initially just being so far away from not only myself but also the rest of her family, as well. Reporter but, he says, betty found comfort in a. B. s congregation. The parishioners were happy to welcome her, the always fun and friendly pastors wife. Very lively, very full of energy. Always doing something. Reporter samantha musante had attended sunday school at the church from the time she was kneehigh. And she remembers how close the pastor and his wife seemed to be. The Church Members always said, oh, betty and a. B. Never do anything apart. Theyre always together. Reporter and thats how life passed for seven years a. B. , betty and their new expanded family of yours and mine. But death was stalking the pastor yet again. We came down the road and spotted a vehicle. Reporter it was a warm july night sometime close to 2 00 a. M. Stanley dickerson and his girlfriend were driving down a deserted country road when they noticed a pt cruiser down off the shoulder, jammed against the guardrail. There was some smoke coming out from under the hood. We slowed up next to the vehicle, but being so dark and with the windows being up on the car, we couldnt really tell what was going on inside. Reporter dickerson got out of his car and knocked on the drivers side to see if he could help. The man rolled down the window. It was a. B. Schirmer. He said, im fine, but i dont think my wife is. I think my wife is hurt. Reporter dickerson asked the pastor to turn on the cars interior light. When he turned it on, there was just blood everywhere in the car. Reporter betty was lying in the passenger seat, shivering and covered in blood. The pastor appeared to be in shock, staring blankly straight ahead. I said, what were you doing out here . And he said his wife had some sort of a problem with her mouth, maybe a toothache, and he had to bring her to the hospital and thats what he was doing out on that road, you know, that early in the morning. Reporter dickerson called 911. They needed an ambulance fast. The car didnt flip over or anything. They just hit a guardrail. But she seems to be hurt pretty bad here. Reporter emts arrived within minutes and betty was taken to the regional trauma center. Her son nate, away from home on a business trip, rushed to her bedside, totally unprepared for what he would find. Reporter it was shocking, huh . She was in very bad shape. Yes. I wasnt expecting wasnt expecting her to look as bad as she did. Reporter could you even recognize her, nate . No, i couldnt. Reporter that bad . That bad. Yes. Reporter Betty Schirmer was on life support, and her family was being summoned. Why had betty been so badly hurt in that car crash but not the pastor . There was Something Else that struck people as strange. At bettys bedside everyone was in tears. But according to her son, everyone except her husband. No crying. No praying or anything like that. Are you sure tyeah, why wouldnt it . Ive just never seen anyone pay with their phone here. I think those only work at like, fancy grocery stores. 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Now bettys mom and most of her eight brothers and sisters had gathered at her bedside. She looked all tubes, bandages and swollen bruising. We were all in shock. It was just horrible. Reporter bettys youngest sister, tina, was at her bedside in intensive care. Just two weeks before, theyd celebrated the birthday they share. They said their goodbyes after a nice lunch. Do you remember what the last words were . That we have to make sure that we keep doing this every year on our birthday. And that she loves us. Reporter bettys only son, nate, got to the hospital as fast as he could, bringing with him a holiday photo of his mom in happier times. Mother, son, and the grandson she doted on. She looked so happy with all of us together there on the couch. And i had placed that in her hand to hold. Reporter as you touched her hand, her fingers, were you getting anything back . No. And as i put the picture in her hand, i whispered in her ear that i loved her and hoped she can hear me. Reporter a solemn vigil began, a life ebbing away amid intensive care machinery. How are you comforting one another there . Hugging and, you know, crying together and holding onto each other, saying some prayers. Reporter at the hospital bettys husband of seven years, pastor a. B. Schirmer, seemed to the family at times oddly distant, at others overly genial. But perhaps, they thought, he was still in shock. After all, hed walked away virtually unscathed from the car crash that had left his wife on life support. No crying, no praying or anything like that. Reporter but a. B. s daughter from his first marriage remembers her father was beside himself with grief. He was upset. He was crying. I saw him at her bedside sobbing, sobbing with one of bettys sisters. Sobbing, holding on to her, not my betts. Reporter according to official reports, the pastor said he had been doing about 50 in his pt cruiser when the accident happened. A deer, he said, had darted out into the road. And he swerved into the guardrail. Betty slammed into the windshield. An arriving officer noted the airbags had deployed. But a. B. Told his sisterinlaw tina betty wasnt wearing her seatbelt. I questioned a. B. What do you mean she didnt have her seatbelt on . She always wears her seatbelt. She would never be without a seatbelt. Reporter but betty, moments before the crash, had made the fateful decision to unbuckle her belt, the pastor told arriving officers. Less than 24 hours after shed been rushed to the hospital, she died. Nates mother was gone. The woman whod built sandcastles with him, whod taught him how to ride his bike. Nate had loved her so much. I was overwhelmed with grief, crying. And i was putting my head on her chest, just hoping to hear something. But there was nothing there. Reporter given the pastors account of a relatively highspeed crash and the arriving officers writeup of the wreck, the coroner ruled bettys death an accident caused by severe head injuries. There would be no autopsy. And a. B. Told nate that his mother had wanted to be cremated. She was actually cremated the next day. Very quick. Reporter a decision that surprised her family, but the decision was properly the spouses. At the funeral directors, a. B. Selected a container for her ashes that caught his eye. He had picked out an urn with a deer on it. Reporter a deer . A deer. Reporter the deer that sent them into the guardrail and your mother supposedly caused the car accident, yes. Reporter odd choice maybe, but nate reminded himself his mother had loved nature. She and a. B. Had jogged together at local parks. A. B. Said she always enjoyed seeing the deer. His Administrative Assistant of the past two years, cindy musante, helped him take care of the funeral arrangements. Her daughter, samantha, who was 16 at the time, remembers it well. That morning of the service, i actually went over early and was helping her with the lastminute details. Reporter the church was packed as people rose to eulogize the beloved betty, but nothing was heard that day from the pastor a. B. Schirmer. He sat in the pews and listened. Hed presided over so many funerals but told friends that this was one he couldnt bear to speak at. In the receiving line the preacher stood next to his stepson nate as the funeral goers each paused briefly to offer their condolences. One of them was cindy. He said, nate, id like to introduce you to my church secretary. This is cindy. And he said to me, we have a little inside joke between us at the church here. And he said, i go by a. B. , and she is known as c. D. And then he said, a, b, c, d. And they kind of chuckled together about it. Reporter did you think that was kind of a cozy, jokey thing . I just thought that was kind of odd at the time. Reporter while nate wondered about the relationship between the pastor and his assistant, cindys daughter had some questions of her own. She had noticed her parents drifting apart in the months before the accident. Did your mom seem different, samantha . Yes, definitely. She seemed much more distant from my dad. Reporter her father, joe, who struggled with alcohol, had steadied himself on the foundation of the church. A skilled cabinetmaker, hed even made a desk for the pastors office. Was it fancy . Very, very beautiful. It was cherry. Had Three Crosses on the front. Reporter but now he was back hitting the bottle. So his demons were after him again . Yeah. Reporter was the growing distance between cindy and her husband, joe, the reason why she and her boss, the reverend a. B. Schirmer, seemed to spend so much more time together . She needed somebody to talk to, you know. What better than your pastor . Reporter but samantha would soon wonder whether the pastors ministering was not so much godly as up close and personal. Samantha plays teenage detective and is surprised by what she finds. 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What in the world was going on . I was being a nosy teenager, and i was looking through my moms phone and i found text messages. Reporter things like . I love you. I cant wait to see you. You looked really nice today. And im sorry, that isnt normal. Reporter even at 16, samantha knew it wasnt right for her mother to be trading flirtatious texts with the recently widowed pastor. Samantha became little miss fixit. She decided to set things aright in her family by confronting her pastor in a kind of roundabout way. Using a fake email address, she wrote one of those i know who you are and know what youre doing kind of messages. Basically i just said that someone knew about what was going on and he should stop or i was going to take it to the church. At that point i didnt want to expose anybody. I didnt want to cause an uproar. I just i wanted my family back. Reporter it didnt take the pastor long to figure out that his assistants cindys daughter was behind the threat. Samantha was summoned to a meeting in the pastors office her, the reverend, and her mother. How tough was that session . Very, very difficult because as the child i had to just keep my mouth shut and say yes, maam. No, maam. Reporter two Great Authority figures in your life telling you youre out of line . Yeah. Reporter were they saying that you misinterpreted what that was all about . Yes. Yes. We are just friends. How dare you . Reporter samantha didnt believe a word of what she was being told, but she didnt know where to turn with her suspicions of the affair between her mother and her pastor. And your dads in the dark and you know and he doesnt. Yeah. At that point i didnt have any other choice. I wasnt going to tell my dad. I couldnt at that point. Didnt have the nerve to break his heart. Reporter but she could only protect her dad for so long. When cindy and a. B. Went on a day trip together, joe musante got wind of it. He called me and he said, whats going on . Whats going on with a. B. And your mother . Its very, you know what do i say . And at that time, you know, he is like, he said, is she in love with him . I said, i think so. Reporter joe waited in the parsonage driveway for them to return and confronted both his wife and a. B. Samanthas mother came clean, telling her husband while she felt an emotional attachment to the pastor, the relationship had not yet turned physical. She said, all right. Yeah, ill end the affair. And, you know, ill try and work on things. My dad was trying his hardest, you know, to work on things and get the marriage back on track. Reporter but joe no longer trusted his wife of 18 years. His sister, rose, found out later that he was monitoring cindys every move. He was tracking cindys telephone messages. How long she was talking and what numbers she was talking to. Reporter and joe didnt like what he saw. Even though she told him and you that she was going to put an end to this. Mmhmm. Reporter there she was calling him. Yeah. Reporter joe drove his daughter out to the horse barn for a talk. He was having panic attacks, you know. He said, i just dont know what to do. And i was young. I didnt know what to tell him. At that point he knew that i think he knew that things just werent going to work out. Reporter for a man who had struggled with depression all his life, the world was becoming an even darker place. I think at that point for my dad, family was very important. And my belief is that he thought my mom was going to leave him. His kids were going to get taken away. And i think without his family he wouldnt have had any reason to live. Reporter the next afternoon samantha says her mother called her in a panic. The pastor reportedly told cindy joe had called him, threatening to kill not only himself but maybe samantha and her brother, too. She told me that my dad had taken his gun out of his dresser and taken it to work. Reporter samantha says cindy instructed her not to go home that night, that she may be in mortal danger. The 16yearold didnt know what to think. She had always been a daddys girl. Loved him beyond measure. But she was frightened. And so she obeyed her mom and took refuge at an aunts house. Joe gets home that night and the kids are gone and cindys gone. So he keeps calling cindy and begging her. You know i would never hurt you or the kids. You know that, cindy. Reporter we can only imagine the storms that were thrashing joes mind on the night of october 28, 2008. Alone. Brooding. He drove to Reeders United Methodist Church. He smashed a rock into a glass panel of the rear door of the church. Then he sat down in the reverends chair and took out his gun. Sat right at that desk that he had made. That he had made. Yeah. Reporter is it possible, rose, that he was going to kill the pastor . Yes. Or at least threaten him. Reporter but the pastor wasnt coming. Cindy had reportedly phoned a. B. To warn him that joe was armed and on the move. A. B. Left town. And so then he went to a motel. Reporter because he thought the angry husband was coming looking for him with a loaded gun. Right. Reporter who knows how long joe musante sat in the pastors chair before he pulled the trigger . But they found him the next morning slumped. The bullet had gone through his skull and deflected off the upper part of a window frame. Joes sister knew something terrible had happened when her husband walked into her office that morning. He said, joe killed himself. What . How could that happen . It was like someone just put a hole right through your heart and youre just like, oh. I just couldnt believe that anything like that could happen. Reporter cindy broke the news to samantha and her brother. She said, your dad decided that he didnt want to be here anymore. And my brother said, well, whered he go . It didnt sink in. And then i said, wait, what . And she said, your father took his life. Reporter at the office in the church . Yes. In the pastors office. Reporter what a dramatic statement that is. Yeah, definitely the biggest statement he could have made. Reporter samantha would learn later her father in his last hours was on the verge of submitting a formal complaint with the church that could get a. B. Schirmer fired. Joe musante didnt leave behind a suicide note, but there was something he wanted people to know. Especially his daughter. He put his briefcase with all the cell phone records, the contact for the bishop of the church and his cell phone, his camera, under my bed. Reporter so kind of his case he was building against the pastor . Yeah. I definitely took it as a sign. You know, figure this out. Reporter rose didnt need to see inside joes briefcase to understand what had happened. She says cindy shamelessly told her about the love triangle the night before joes funeral. I watched her face, and i felt like she was a woman that was awakened in some way that had not felt that ever before in her life. She evidently loved this guy. Reporter rose could not believe it. This is a pastor. He cant step back and let the two of them work it out . He cant help himself . I mean, how could he do this . I mean, whats wrong with this guy . Reporter the pastor was about to face more than a crime of the heart. I was afraid for other parishioners. They should investigate him to find out if hes done this to other people. Reporter rose was about to take up her brothers dying wishes and set in motion an investigation that could not only get a. B. Bounced from the parsonage but could also potentially put the hymnsinging preacher away for a very long time. Had he broken not only the seventh commandment, the one about adultery, but the sixth commandment, as well . The one forbidding murder. Rose starts digging into the pastors past and istunned by what she discovers. 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Cindy musante seemed to be moving on very quickly after the suicide of her husband joe in late october of 2008. Her family said it wasnt two weeks before shed packed up his belongings and taken them to the salvation army. She must have in her mind left him long ago. I mean, you know, it was over for her. Reporter the pastors assistant was now free to be with the man she loved, her boss, the reverend a. B. Schirmer. Hed been a widower since losing his wife in a car wreck that summer. Cindys daughter samantha says her mom and a. B. Picked up together just days after her dads suicide. My mom went away the next weekend to go see him, so its very difficult to be hurting and have just lost your father and have your mom go off visiting her lover, i guess. Reporter thats healing the wounds pretty quickly. Yeah. Very. Reporter joes sister rose, a onetime counselor, tried not to judge her sisterinlaw, but she was obviously headoverheels for the pastor. Still, she thought the pastor had a lot of explaining to do. Basic things like, why hadnt he called the police when joe musante had threatened to kill himself and possibly even his family . Anytime you threaten somebodys life or you threaten your own, youre supposed to call the authorities. Reporter youve been a counselor. Youve been there. Mmhmm. So i picked up on that and i said, geez, being a pastor, you know, he didnt even do that. Reporter instead, rose says, hed left the desperate husband to spiral out of control. Rose was haunted by thoughts of her brothers final hours. He folded. He couldnt stand the pressure. And i felt really bad that he sat in that room by himself, you know, because i knew how much his guts were turned inside out. Reporter rose was determined to give her dead brother a voice. Seven days after joes suicide she drafted a letter of complaint to the bishop. He has violated his pledge to be a man of god, she wrote, and asked that the reverend be held accountable for his negligence. It wasnt a witch hunt. It was never, you know, were out to get you. My aunt simply wanted it investigated, you know. Theres something fishy. When a pastor of a church has an affair with one of the parishioners, theres something wrong. Reporter a week later, a. B. Was summoned for a meeting with the bishop. Rose says he didnt even try to defend himself. He resigned from the church. The bishop said he hung his head and he was a broken man when he left her office. Reporter and he was done with the church. That was it. He had to surrender his license and he had to get out of the parsonage within a certain length of time, and he wasnt supposed to talk to any of the parishioners. He wasnt supposed to make contact with them or anything. He was just supposed to leave and that was it. Reporter but there was one churchgoer he couldnt stay away from samanthas mother. Months after withdrawing from the pulpit, the onetime reverend schirmer was dropping by cindys house for dinner. She said, oh, a. B. Is going to come over for a dinner. And i said, i think i have to work that night. Reporter you didnt like schirmer . I had a lot of hostile feelings. I felt as if, you know, my family was invaded. Reporter and before samantha knew it, dinners were turning into overnight stays. He started bringing overnight bags and the overnight bags didnt leave, you know. Thats when panic really set in for me. Reporter samanthas aunt rose would later view a. B. With disgust for spending more and more time with her dead brothers family, seemingly without a thought of the man who had committed suicide at his desk. I just think he has no conscience, you know. He has no doesnt care about anything but his own self. Reporter but what a. B. Didnt know was that rose hadnt just ratted him out to the church. A few days after shed mailed that letter to the bishop, shed made a call to the police. She had a hunch, she told investigators, not about her brother joes suicide, but about that car accident that killed the pastors wife, betty. People had sort of filed that away, hadnt they . Yeah. Reporter that the reverend had lost his wife in a car wreck. Yeah. Reporter rose says it was cindy who had originally told her about the accident that killed betty, the pastors wife. He was taking her to the hospital early in the morning and a deer ran out and, you know, he swerved and i said, did the deer hit the car . And she said, no. And i said, oh. Reporter the story of the car accident that killed betty struck her as odd, and the more she uncovered, the more suspicious she became. There were these things that were really disturbing, you know, and make the hair on the back of your neck stand up. Reporter one of the cops to receive roses call was detective james wagner of the Pocono Township Police department who was assigned to investigate. I immediately thought that i needed to look at this to see if theres any signs of foul play. Reporter the patrolmans report seemed cut and dried. Betty had died after hitting her head during the car wreck. But the key witness had been bettys husband, reverend a. B. Schirmer, the man the detective was told to take a look at. At the hospital, the pastor had given a vivid account of the crash to a deputy coroner. He made it sound to this coroner that that vehicle spun out of control and betty went flying because she was an unrestrained passenger. Reporter well, everybody that drives rural roads can see that as a very plausible story. That is correct. Reporter all of a sudden theres a deer. You try and swerve. And you lose it and a god awful thing happens. For a coroner whos located 45 minutes away who doesnt know anything about the accident scene itself, that would seem normal. Reporter and hes taking down the account of a methodist minister. Thats correct. Reporter wagner kept digging and discovered in the departments archives a cache of photos from the crash site. When he punched them up on his computer, the detective immediately noticed they didnt match the story told by the pastor. The car was only minimally banged up. The airbags hadnt even deployed. It turned out the officer whod written up the original accident report got that important detail wrong. And the detective wondered why he saw no tire marks on the road. There were no signs or evidence of evasive maneuvers at all. Reporter should have been and there werent. There were not. Reporter to his eyes there was zero evidence in the photos indicating a highspeed collision had ever occurred. And yet, bettys injuries had been simply horrific. Shed suffered multiple skull fractures and two huge gashes on her head. It just didnt fit for the detective. Theres no way a conscious person sitting in that passenger seat would sustain the kind of head trauma that she did. Reporter did you say this thing stinks . Yes. I did. Reporter investigators noticed Something Else odd about the quarters in the cars change holder. The impact was so minor that they didnt go flying out all over the place. So they were just where theyd been. Correct. The keys to this home belong to mark and alissa anderson. They bought the place four months ago on what was arguably the scariest day of their lives. Neither has any idea what the future holds for them. But they bought into a 30year mortgage anyway. That was bold. They must really believe in themselves. Buy in. Quickenloans home buy. Refi. Power. Millions of instant win prizes, and tickets to super bowl 50. And now with all day breakfast, you can play anytime with a delicious egg mcmuffin. 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It was hard to believe that this Modest Church in the poconos had become the setting for a murder investigation. Detective james wagner was delving into the schirmers latenight car accident, wondering why pictures of the supposedly highspeed crash didnt seem to match the account of the driver, reverend a. B. Schirmer, whose wife betty had died. He tracked down the passerby whod called 911 the night of the accident to see if he had any further information that might help explain the discrepancies. Just by looking at the car from when we walked up on it, there didnt seem to be any real damage. Reporter the Good Samaritan motorists impressions confirmed what the detective had concluded from the photos. Bettys injuries seemed way out of proportion to the minor fenderbender shed experienced. She was shivering. She wasnt really conscious. Reporter even at the time, he remembered thinking it strange that the pastor was staring out the windshield, making no effort to help his wife. He made no attempt to get out of the car or really even to speak to her or comfort her. Which isnt something youd expect from somebody whos with their wife whos potentially dying. Reporter and even more unusual, detective wagner realized, the pastor relied on the motorist to call for help when he could have dialed 911 himself. Mr. Schirmer had a functional cell phone and never made a 911 call. Reporter wagner kept looking at the photos, the stains. I got to a photograph of the blood in the seat and i immediately noticed that this blood doesnt make sense. I had one of those moments where its oh, my god, this this is it. Reporter bettys car seat was spattered with blood. But, the detective thought, it shouldnt have been if she was initially injured while sitting in the passenger seat. How did it get under her . If betty did sustain a bleeding wound from that particular crash, she would of been bleeding on herself. There would be a void from her body, her legs and her butt in that seat. Reporter the only logical way to explain the blood on the passenger seat, the detective thought, was if betty had been injured and bleeding before she got into the car. What i saw is that evidence that told me immediately that she was bleeding prior to that crash. Reporter that had nothing to do with the deer and slamming into the windshield . Absolutely not. Reporter could a. B. Have done something so monstrous as to stage a car accident as a coverup for murder . It was shocking to contemplate. As the investigation was ramping up, members of bettys family were wrestling with the past, reliving bettys final days. Things just werent adding up. Bettys son nate was bothered by one of the last phone calls he had with his mother. I could tell there was something wrong. I just couldnt put my finger on it. Reporter but when he sifted through a box of mementos his stepfather had given him well after the funeral, he found a birthday card a. B. Had written to betty only a couple of weeks before she died. Tucked inside was a postit note. The postit note said for all the pain i have caused you i am sorry. Someday i hope you will be free to laugh again, free to soar, truly free. And the word free was underlined. Reporter some sort of apology. Whats going on . How do you read this . Obviously there was something going on behind the scenes or behind closed doors that no one else was aware of. Reporter and bettys family had been taken aback by what they saw as a. B. s lack of emotion at the hospital. Did you see any tears in him that night . Never. No. Reporter they thought at times hed acted more like a party host than a grieving husband. Just out of the blue, just like this he goes, hey billy come on in. See your sister. You know, like like they just had a newborn baby or something. Reporter and when two months after the accident tina took a. B. Out to lunch, she was surprised to find her newly widowed brotherinlaw so happy. The whole time lunch was going on he was texting. He called cindy. He said her names c. D. And my names a. B. And having a good time with that. Reporter so did you wonder who this c. D. , cindy woman really was . Yeah. It was he just was having too much fun. Reporter two other things stood out for bettys family. Things that seemed out of character for their sister. A. B. s story about betty not wearing her seatbelt just didnt ring true. My mom would always say to me, seatbelts save lives. If i wasnt wearing a seatbelt, she would always make sure that i put it on before wed go. Reporter so did it make sense to you when he said that she was not buckled up . I didnt know what to think. Because that wasnt like my mom. Reporter and then there was a. B. s decision to have betty cremated. Did that surprise you . It did. My mother chose to be cremated. My sister betts did not agree with it. Reporter back in the poconos, the state police had been pulled in to help detective wagner with the case. The team took a second look at the pt cruisers speed that night. The pastor had told the responding officer he was traveling between 50 and 55 Miles Per Hour when the crash occurred. But in one of the accident photos, investigators noticed something odd. When they looked at the change holder, they saw that almost all the quarters remained neatly in place. The impact was so minor that they didnt go flying out all over the place. Reporter so they were just where theyd been . Correct. Reporter and an expert in crash reconstruction who looked at the case concluded that the pt cruisers speed at the point of impact was maybe half of what schirmer had claimed. At the time he collided with that guardrail, it was less than 25 miles an hour. Reporter this was a lowish speed accident. Correct. Reporter investigators now believed the pastor had staged the accident to cover up the killing of his wife. So five months after bettys death one set of investigators asked the pastor to come down to the State Police Barracks for a talk while a separate team of officers and crime scene techs headed for the parsonage to have a look around at the place where a. B. Had lived with betty. You wanted to hear what he had to say for sure, but as important was putting him under a roof and knowing where he was. Correct. We didnt want to compromise anything by him finding out that we were there and searching the parsonage. Reporter the cops were about to blow the case wide open. Who do you think he is . A very sick, sick man. Do you think hes a killer . I do. Yes, i do. Reporter turns out theres one person who doesnt think the pastor is a killer. His opinion may count for a lot. The forensic pathologist said that bettys injuries are what he would expect to see in a Motor Vehicle collision. Y. 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Its hard to believe that somebody in that position would commit a Violent Crime such as this. Reporter in december 2008, about a month after investigators began reviewing bettys death, they asked the husband, a. B. Schirmer, to meet with them at the State Police Barracks. He thought he was going to answer questions about the suicide in his Church Office just two months before. Investigators had other ideas. Youve got two operations going on. Youre bringing schirmer in for a sitdown. Correct. Reporter meanwhile, youre going to go in a crime tech kind of way to look and see whats happened at the parsonage. Yes. Reporter while a. B. Was in an interrogation room, detective james wagner and a team of crime scene technicians swept into the parsonage at Reeders United Methodist Church, video cameras rolling. They were looking for any evidence that betty had been attacked before she got into the car. A. B. Had moved out about a month before, but they were concerned that he could still get access to the parsonage. They cased the kitchen, the bedrooms, scoured every inch of the parsonage basement, and found nothing incriminating. But what they discovered in the garage they say was jawdropping. I walked in the back door of that garage. It was unlocked. And i immediately noticed blood drops near the posts, right above the stairwell, and i was shocked. I could not believe it. Reporter and not just one or two blood drops. Wagner could see clusters of blood. Visible to the naked eye. And it looked to him as though someone had been trying to clean it up. I could see evidence of washed blood. Reporter how did it show itself . It looked diluted. It looked, you know, faded from water or cleanup efforts. Reporter when investigators sprayed the garage with luminol, a chemical that glows when it interacts with blood, they said a ghostly trail of blood appeared leading from the back door to where the car would have been parked. Detective wagner could almost see the crime happening in front of him. You could see betty already injured being brought in through that garage door . Being brought in that garage door and physically loaded and put into that passenger seat. Reporter but just because there was blood on the garage floor didnt mean it was necessarily bettys. State trooper Phil Barletto was also at the scene. Of course, now you have to find out whose blood it is youre seeing. Yes. And the blood is documented and then collected for dna testing. Reporter and it comes back from the lab as . Betty schirmers. Its all her blood. Reporter but even before they had that lab confirmation, the investigators at the parsonage called the troopers interviewing schirmer, the pastor, to tell them of their breakthrough discovery. As hes sitting across from detectives, youre phoning in and saying we got blood out here . Yes. He first denies that betty ever bled in the garage, that betty ever bled anywhere in the parsonage. But when confronted about this blood in the garage, he comes up with a story about how she cut herself moving wood. Reporter schirmer told police betty had helped him move a pile of firewood out of the garage. He said the stack collapsed and theyd both scraped themselves betty so badly that shed needed a bandage. And sure enough, the investigators did, in fact, find a pile of wood outside on church grounds. Forensic troopers are meticulously going through it looking for potential blood evidence. What they find at the bottom of this pile is a stack of newspapers, and the newspapers were dated september 2008. Reporter so help me on that. Why is the newspaper important . Because betty died on july 15th, 2008. And its impossible for betty to have helped him move this firewood. Betty was dead at the time that that wood was deposited in that location. Reporter investigators believed they had caught the pastor in an outright lie. And there was one more incriminating statement a. B. Made during the interrogation, according to the detective. Something so small schirmer possibly didnt even notice it. He subconsciously threw out the statement of putting her in the car. He used that term, i put her in the car, which is what i believe he did. He put her bleeding body into that car. Reporter investigators told schirmer he was free to go. They were done with him. For now. After seven hours of interrogation the by then former pastor was apparently rattled. Next message, sent reporter he tried to get bettys sisters, tina and sandy, on the phone to alert them that the police would be calling. The call to sandy went to voice mail. Hi, sandy, its a. B. Please give me a call. Its very important. Its very important. Could you call me, please . Thank you. Bye. We called him back and we said, a. B. , you cant leave a message like this, for heavens sakes. I said, youve got to meet us. Reporter they met with a. B. The same day. Did you ask him then, did you kill our sister . As soon as we sat down, he asked if we wanted coffee or anything. And he said, sandy, i did not kill your sister. Reporter detective wagner called bettys sisters the day after the interrogation and was surprised to find out that a. B. Had already contacted them. And i just thought that was very interesting, that he was already playing that manipulation game and beating us to the punch, so to speak. Reporter a. B. , thought the detective, was certainly acting as though he had something to hide. But as convinced as investigators were that a. B. Had staged the car accident to cover up the real cause of bettys death, there were still huge holes in the their case. So now you have a theory that betty was killed here on the grounds of the church. Did you have a weapon . Did you know where . We did not. I had no idea where it took place or what instrument may have been utilized to cause those injuries. Reporter and there was a huge setback when investigators brought bettys hospital records to a medical examiner for review. The forensic pathologist said that bettys injuries are what he would expect to see in a Motor Vehicle collision. Reporter a Motor Vehicle accident, just as the pastor said, an investigative stumbling block. But there was another lead for the detectives still to explore. And to do that theyd have to go back in time, back to another woman in another parsonage. Another wife of a. B. Schirmer. It was eerie, what they would find. Another wife in another suspicious accident . There were rumors, all kinds of rumors, about her death. 28. Tick, tock. 25 years old and youre still playing in the mud. 15 feet in the air, thats where you feel most alive. 10 meter maids waiting to wallpaper your truck. Better get out of town. 5, 4, 3. The allnew tacoma. Toyota. Lets go places. Batman so why do they call it black friday, anyway . Pony i dont know, but i think they should call it pink friday. Batman oh boy. Pony and we could have glitter continues under vo anncblack friday continues now through saturday with tons of awesome deals. Anncr toysrus. A whole store of awwwesome. Anncget 50 off Barbie Rock N Royals limo this holiday, i can count on my going off list. Again, and knowing right when my packages arrive. So thats two things. Introducing real time delivery notifications. Sign up at myusps. Com only once a year get 15 kohls cash for every 50 spent earn it on everything including our biggest brands right now online and in store plus take an extra 20 off with your savings pass this saturday when you shop kohls and kohls. Com. Investigators were digging into a. B. Schirmers past, looking for that breakthrough detail to help them build a murder case against the disgraced pastor. Of course, betty wasnt the only wife a. B. Had lost. His first wife of 30 years, jewel, had also died. There were rumors all kinds of rumors about her death. Reporter the pastor had told some of bettys family that his first wife had died after an illness. He had told me that she had passed away from cancer. His first wife died of cancer . Yes. Reporter but other family members heard it differently. They believed jewel had died after tumbling down a flight of basement stairs. I didnt know what had happened down there. And i needed to find out whether jewels death was suspicious in any way. Reporter Kathy Siegrist knew the story better than most. A good friend of jewels, she was in the pews for most of a. B. s tenure at the bethany United Methodist church in lebanon, pennsylvania. How did the congregation receive him . Great. Great. They loved him. They loved him. And he was reinstated over and over again. Reporter and a. B. And jewels daughters remember their parents being devoted not only to the church but to each other. Did you see little affections . Holding a hand . Yes. Soft voice, a caress here and there . Uhhuh. Yes. Definitely. Reporter and their dad adored them. Julie and amy remember how he was the one who got them off to school in the morning. He would come in and hed say, amy, youre soon going to get up. And id be like, okay. He wouldnt do that for you. Yeah, hed touch me and run. Reporter and yet, beyond their devoted dad, maybe there was a side to a. B. That his daughters and even most of the Church Members didnt see. Kathy siegrists husband and a. B. Were bowling buddies. He often would come home and say what a horrible temper he had. Really . The reverend a. B. Schirmer . He said he would kick the aisle where the balls come back if he bowled badly. Reporter and it wasnt just the reverends supposed flashes of temper at the Bowling Alley that caught the eyes of a. B. s buddies. Kathy says his constant flirting with women slowed the game down. When it was his turn to bowl, he wasnt there, and theyd have to wait around. That would make the guys upset because it made them later to go home. So the men had a different perspective on a. B. . Yes. Well, my father too was there, and he would say, things are fishy. Something doesnt feel right. Referring to what, as you look back, kathy . With a. B. And theyd see him with more than one woman there. That was fishy. Reporter and even at church kathy noticed a. B. Seemed overly attentive to female members of the congregation. In the months leading up to jewels death, she said there was one woman in particular parishioners were whispering about. At that point one female in the church that you would see him with in the corner, talking, while jewel was taking care of Everything Else in the church. Reporter meanwhile, as kathy saw it, her best friend jewel was frozen out of the pastors affection. I never saw anything affectionate from him to jewel. I dont think i ever saw them kiss. He never hugged her. I dont know if i ever saw him hold her hand, actually. Reporter one disappointment towered over the others. For months, kathy says, jewel had been looking forward to a big 30th wedding anniversary treat, a trip to new york city to see the phantom of the opera. Shed bought tickets to surprise a. B. But when the time came, he announced that he wasnt going. A. B. Had a wedding to officiate. Did that break her heart a little bit, when he said im not going . I think, pretty much. She called me up and she said, i can kick and scream all i want. And hes not going to care. And hes not going to come. So will you come with me . Sure, i will. Reporter during jewels Favorite Song in the broadway show, kathy remembers jewel calling a. B. So he could listen in. But she couldnt reach him. She tried to call him to see where he was and to tell him, this is the song and this is you know, i wanted you to be here. He didnt answer. And it was later in the evening and she asked me, do you think that if he did have a wedding and was invited to the dinner afterwards that he would be home by now . And i just agreed with her, yes, i would think he would be. Reporter was the mouse playing while the cat was away . Kathy had her suspicions. Did you ever talk to jewel about the things that you were starting to think yourself were going on with a. B. . I did not. I did not. I i didnt want to hurt her. Reporter but the whole issue of a. B. s suspected cheating soon became moot. Not long after that trip to new york city jewel was found sprawled at the bottom of the basement steps in the parsonage, a vacuum cleaner cord wrapped around her leg. A. B. Told the emts he discovered her when he came back from running. Jewel was taken to the e. R. With multiple factures to her skull. Kathy immediately went to the hospital. How did she look . Terrible. Her head was huge and it was all wrapped up with gauze. You really couldnt have known it was her. Reporter her daughters kept vigil at their mothers bedside. It was horrific. It was terribly shocking. And i guess you knew there wasnt going to be a good outcome . Yes, i pretty much got that feeling. I still prayed for miracles and but yeah, i got that feeling. Reporter there would be no miraculous recovery for the 51yearold wife and mother. Jewels injuries were insurmountable. Julie and amy remember their father falling apart as the decision was made to turn off the life support machines. He and i walked outside and i remember it was a sunny day, and he said it was a Beautiful Day but it was not a Beautiful Day. And he wanted his wife back. For some reason that just really sticks out in my mind because of the way it was said. He was just so sad. Reporter jewel was buried and mourned by the congregation. Sundays at the church were never quite the same for kathy without jewel behind the organ. She and her sister told a. B. A few weeks on how much they missed her. We talked about how sad it is that shes not there, and we miss all the music and everything that she did. And his statement to us was, well, youre just going to have to get over it. Reporter and the reverend apparently took his own advice. Two years later he decided it was time to move on. A new chapter of his life with a new parish in the poconos and a new wife, betty. Kathy met her just one time. She was jogging with him. And i was thinking, wow, maybe shes good for him because jewel didnt like to jog. And he found someone that has his likes. But as i walked away, i thought, wow, already . Reporter yet the rumors about a. B. s first marriage, the freak fall down the stairs, didnt mean much to detective wagner until he called his counterparts down in lebanon with a question. Had anyone there ever inquired about Jewel Schirmers death . What i found out was very shocking. They told me that the case was left still pending and undetermined with no outcome. Reporter and the closer he looked, the more he started to see some chilling parallels with bettys death. What do you think youve got here . This was very surprising for a minister. Reporter what would the story of the autopsy reveal about how Jewel Schirmer died . They didnt rule it an accident. They didnt rule it homicide. They ruled it as we dont know. Reporter but perhaps there was one person who did know. The way i see it, you have two choices; the easy way or the hard way. 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One step at a time, nice and slow. And then shed not only fall but suffer 14 different impacts to the head on her way down. Reporter according to the authorities two hours away in lebanon, pennsylvania, where jewel died, an autopsy had been performed a decade before after she was said to have tumbled down a set of basement stairs. The forensic pathologist was dr. Wayne ross. You did the original autopsy. I did. What was your opinion about what had happened to her . Traumatic brain injury. Reporter dr. Rosss report told the prosecutor that even back then there had been doubts that jewels injuries, the massive trauma to her head, were consistent with the story of a fall. Jewels manner of death had been listed as undetermined. They didnt rule it an accident. They didnt rule it homicide. They ruled it as we dont know. Reporter in fact, the pathologist had been so concerned about his findings that he had suggested authorities take a closer look but that never happened. A local coroner mistakenly, as it turned out told police that jewel had fallen down the stairs after suffering a heart attack. It was a heart attack. They decide to close the investigation. Reporter a decade later that old case was suddenly very relevant. And later in the investigation the prosecutor would make an interesting move. Hed ask dr. Ross, the pathologist whod performed jewels autopsy, to analyze both jewel and Betty Schirmers records. There wasnt much for dr. Ross to work with. Unlike jewel, betty hadnt been autopsied. But cat scan images of her brain had been taken at the hospital. The pathologist would be definitive in his conclusions. The injuries noted to Betty Schirmer are wholly inconsistent with this lowspeed Traffic Accident in which no airbags deploy and in which ms. Schirmer had absolutely no injuries at all. Reporter dr. Ross said there were two wounds on the right side of bettys head that could not have been caused in that car accident. An opinion that became Even Stronger when he examined these computerized 3d models of bettys skull. These two images here are huge. Reporter dr. Ross was convinced betty had been murdered. And brutally so. Shes got fractures on the right side of her skull. And directly underneath that she has swelling and bleeding to her brain. Thats a lot of force going through there. Reporter and what kind of murder weapon would the killer have used . Dr. Ross had an idea. It was my opinion that she had been struck multiple times on her head with a long, cylindrical object with a lot of weight to it, a crowbar or something, and he was swinging for the fences essentially and hit her hard at least twice in this area and caused that damage. Reporter and the real stunner for the pathologist, the injury was eerily reminiscent of that other schirmer case hed seen so long ago. I mean, selfevident. Theres two lacerations here. Oh, my goodness. It looks exactly like Jewel Schirmer. Reporter dr. Ross compared the two wives injuries side by side. When you compare the two of them, the similarities are striking. The similarities are to the right side of the head on both jewel and betty. In terms of the lacerations its all happening right here . Its all happening in both women . Its all happening right side of the head in both women. Reporter in death, the doctor thought, they could have been twins. And investigators also found what they believed were other similarities between the two cases, signs they thought of a cleanup. Scrubbed blood stains in the parsonage garage in the poconos and a story of scrubbed blood stains at the foot of the basement stairs in jewels case. Back in 1999, detectives learned, jewels brother had been so alarmed by the sight of his sister in the icu that he went over to the parsonage to see just what had happened. He thought the blood had been cleaned up. He confronts schirmer, what happened to all the blood . And schirmer says the emts stayed behind and cleaned it up. And he said, thats bull. I ran ambulance. I know that that didnt happen. And schirmer doesnt respond. Reporter investigators thought the other big similarity in the two deaths were the rumors in both about a. B. s behavior with other women. Your opinion is that jewel, the wife, was aware of his infidelities . Painfully aware. Reporter and the prosecutor thought divorce could have been a problem for the pastor. I think it would have been maybe a stain on his reputation. You know, and he was very conscious of his how he appeared to others. Because, remember, hes up on high. Hes counseling you. Hes everybodys person that is looked up to. So he certainly wouldnt have wanted that. Reporter and when detectives looked at the pastors computer, they saw that he had a secret life. Was it part of a motive for murder . A reason to get rid of not one, but two wives . A strange pastime for a pastor. He was addicted to pornography. 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He stood before his congregation as a man of the cloth and bettys devoted husband. But behind closed parsonage doors, authorities believed a. B. Schirmer had been keeping some dark and tawdry secrets. You have a wolf in sheeps clothing. Reporter for more than a year, a team of investigators had been working to build a case against the former pastor a. B. Schirmer. Darryl cox was still singing with the reverend out on the gospel circuit and said his friend didnt understand why he was being targeted by investigators. A. B. Would tell me theyre investigating bettys death. He told me he didnt know why. He said, theres nothing there. They wont find anything. Theres nothing to find. Reporter but investigators thought they were finding plenty. By now they were trying to connect the dots between the death of his second wife, betty, and his first wife, jewel. And zeroing in on a motive for murder after they examined the hard drive on the reverends computer. Obsessed with sex. Obsessed with it. Thousands of porn sites. More than playmate nudie pictures . It ran the gamut on all kinds of other perverse behavior. Reporter and seasoned investigator trooper Phil Barletto says the sheer volume of a. B. s searches was telling. He was addicted to pornography, as evident by his computers. Addicted to the chase of sexuality. Reporter and as they dug deeper, they found emails indicating to them that a. B. s sexual targets were not virtual but sometimes very real female Church Members. Kathy siegrist would tell investigators about a. B. s suspected affairs during his first marriage to jewel, and detective wagner says there was proof a. B. Had run around on betty, too. He was counseling women who were very vulnerable for many different reasons. Maybe troubled marriage, alcohol abuse, something of that nature. And he would basically counsel his way right into their bedrooms. Reporter investigator Wendy Serfass says she could see the trail of women extending back for decades. Theres never a period in this mans life where hes not got some woman on the hook. We look back, you know, into the 70s and into the 80s. And its a constant. You know, you can see the pattern repeating itself over and over again. Reporter but even if the pastor was a chronic philanderer as investigators thought, why was that a reason for killing his wives . It seemed to them hed been cheating on them for years. Why resort to murder . Investigators speculated something must have changed. Whatever it was, there was a sense betty was a troubled woman just before the car accident. A month or two before her death there was a noticeable lack of outgoingness with the church that they took note of. Reporter and remember this postit note the pastor had attached to bettys last birthday card, the one her son nate had come upon as he looked through a box of keepsakes. The one that said he was sorry for all the pain he had caused her but soon she could soar free. How do you read that . It can only mean in the context that there was an understanding that the marriage was at an end. That was datable to her last birthday, which was the end of june 2008. And she was ashes by july 17th. Reporter but still, they had to wonder. If they believed the pastor had staged a car crash on a dark, rural road and by now they did then why . Maybe, they theorized, the timing had to do with cindy. Was betty on to her husbands interest in his assistant . What if she asked the pastor for a potentially careercrushing divorce . Hes wrapped up in the aura of the pulpit. Hes a man of the cloth. He doesnt want to jeopardize it. And the breakup of his marriage, a divorce, anything nasty affairwise, he didnt want to tolerate that. Reporter and the prosecutor thought cindys affections for the pastor were becoming maybe dangerously apparent. She was infatuated with the reverend. Just mentioning his name, a big smile would come across her face. Reporter and two days after bettys car accident in the summer of 2008 cindy sent her condolences to the pastor, signing her email, love you. The mushy cd. A. B. Replied, love you too. Reporter prosecutor mancuso was also struck by this photo of schirmer he says was taken the weekend of bettys memorial service. You dont see a man whos distraught and devastated, lost and alone. Hes smiling. Theres one photo in particular where he was cooking up a load of scrapple and he has a very selfassured look on his face. Relaxed. At ease. Reporter but a few months later, things would get more complicated on that october night when cindys husband joe shot himself at the pastors desk, heartbroken that his wife was involved with the reverend. His suicide allowed cindy and the pastor to finally be free together. By going through the pastors records, investigator serfass tracked what she saw as the couples increasingly steamy relationship following joes death. It just it seemed to me too sudden. I dont understand how you where did you grieve . Like where was your grieving time . Reporter she said their credit card receipts revealed rendezvous in local hotels. Theyre having an intimate relationship. We also see then theres hotel stays, overnight hotel stays, you know, things like that. Reporter there were also smoldering emails to each other. Cindy wrote, unimaginable is the only word that even comes close to describing last night. I have occupied this body for 40 something years and trust me, this is not normal for me and a. B. Wrote, am very hungry for you your body is fantastic. And schirmer even confided in cindy how happy he was now with her. He said his relationship with betty had been missing something. For the last two years we did not have sex, he wrote. Betty is menopausal, not interested in sex. They were not intimate. He was tired of her. She was no good anymore. So goodbye betty, hello cynthia . That would be the timing, yes. Reporter and it was not only hello cindy, but hello samantha and her little brother. The children came, too. More than a year after joes suicide, samantha remembers the pastor being there almost all the time. What was he like around the house . Very moody. Very kept to himself. Didnt want to, you know, really be bothered with my brother or i. Reporter rose, samanthas aunt, watching from afar, was distressed by the thought of the pastor living with her dead brothers wife and children. He has my brothers house and he can be with his son. And he can sleep in his bed. The decisions hes making and his behaviors dont add up because you just dont do that. Reporter but the new couple was making big plans. Later that summer, in august 2010, cindy and a. B. Announced their engagement. Daughter samantha was terrified. She called the police, frantic that her mother would become the third late mrs. A. B. Schirmer. Investigators agreed and decided they couldnt wait any longer to arrest the former pastor. With what they saw as another potential woman at risk, they decided to make their move. On september 13th, 2010, detective wagner knocked on the front door of cindys house. Cindy musantes son came to the door. And i asked him where mr. Schirmer was and he said he was in the kitchen. And as i started to approach into the kitchen area, he went out the back door and ran right into trooper maynard. Reporter a. B. Schirmer did not resist. He was cuffed and read his rights, charged with the murder of his second wife, betty. The deepest secrets of the reverend schirmer were about to be revealed to all. He would stand trial in a case that would leave a small pennsylvania town abuzz with its ungodly charges. Prosecutors seemed to have a strong case. But dont underestimate the defense. He did a lot of things that werent appropriate in the case. That doesnt make him a murderer. Pc does whaaat . Helicopter Engine roars music begins. The song, danger zone by Kenny Loggins plays from the pc pc does what . hey, guy pc does what . shhhh pc does what no pc has done before. Does yours . [eerie music] i am the ghost of cookies past. Residue. Oh. So gross. Well, you didnt use pam. So it looks like youre stuwith me bargain brand cooking spray leaves annoying residue. Thats why theres pam. The prosecutor had no doubt the pastor a. B. Schirmer was a dangerous character. I believe hes a sociopathic type of guy who will do whatever he wants to do, and he has. And that included murder. Reporter in this turn of the century courthouse in the pocono mountains, a. B. Schirmer would stand trial for killing his wife betty. He pleaded not guilty to firstdegree murder. And sitting behind him in the courtroom would be his daughters. They had no doubt that their dad was innocent. Youre foursquare behind your dad. People shouldnt miss that. Is that right . That is correct. Youve never had a whisper of a doubt . Never. No. Reporter it had been more than four years since amy and julies stepmom, Betty Schirmer, had been found bleeding and unconscious in their dads car. Now it was time for a jury to hear the evidence against a. B. Schirmer and decide whether he was a murderer. A lot of the prosecutors case was circumstantial. There was no murder weapon. No eyewitness. No confession to the crime. But even though the case had its challenges, the prosecutor had won a key victory before the trial had even started. Now, the former pastor wasnt on trial for jewels death, but a judge ruled that the prosecutor could still tell the jury about it and point out the similarities between how she and betty died. Blunt force trauma to the head, brain damage, brain dead. Injury patterns remarkably similar. It was from the same type of object, a long cylindrical object. This is the deck of cards being turned over again and just replayed out . Right. Reporter while the prosecutor would describe for the jury the crushing blows he believed killed both wives hed been charged in both cases this trial would focus mostly on betty. All in all, it was tough testimony for bettys family to listen to without going to pieces. I just couldnt stop crying. How how long did she sit and suffer in pain . Reporter the prosecutor asked the jurors to use their common sense about a. B. s version of events. He played them these computer animations of the car crash as reconstructed by experts. Remember, a. B. Had told police hed been traveling at around 50 miles an hour when the accident happened. At 35 miles an hour the car would completely travel right through the guardrail. Reporter sail through the guardrail into the woods. Correct. Reporter the prosecutor said the accident reconstruction proved the pastor was driving slowly when the car struck the guardrail. Too slowly for betty to have been fatally injured. More proof, he argued, that the socalled accident had been staged by the pastor, whod attacked his wife somewhere else. A bogus wreck would also explain his strange behavior in the car. No call to 911. No attempt to aid his injured wife. And there was his inappropriate behavior at the hospital, the prosecutor said, like this remark to a nurse. The defendant says, what a pretty woman betts was. And then he makes the bizarre statement, and she had a nice ass, too. Reporter the prosecutor declared that the reverend met anyones test of a sinner on a frequent basis. His computer was weighted down with searches for porn, according to a prosecution witness. One person testified that shed had an ongoing affair of many years with him. It was just a shock to me. One of them he actually was still sleeping with two weeks after he murdered my sister. Reporter the womanizing. The emotional entanglement with his church assistant. It all added up to a crumbling marriage, the prosecutor told the jury. And a. B. , he said, responded the only way he knew how. Theres an underlying violence within him thats well masked that comes out. Reporter violence that had been mapped out in blood on the floor of the parsonage garage, according to the prosecutor. He had a theory about how the crime occurred. She was beaten in the house, beaten to the point of brain death, unconsciousness. He takes her, he dresses her, he carries her shes only about 100 pounds out the back door, along the cemetery line, and into the back door of the garage. Reporter and what happened next, the Prosecutor Says, became increasingly clear when investigators pulled a pt cruiser, the type of car the reverend had been driving, into the garage. They parked the car in place, and marked pink dots where blood had been found. Later, investigators created this diagram. It shows a trail of blood leading right from the garage door to the cars passenger side. He walks her around the side of the car on the passengers side, sets her down, opens the door, puts her in the car, then he backs out, he goes off and he concocts this little crash. Reporter but after seven days of testimony, it was finally the pastors Defense Attorneys turn to present his case. Hes innocent. You think he didnt do it . Right. Reporter Brandon Reish told the jury that sometimes accidents just happen. And he argued that some of the prosecutions forensic analysis wasnt based on sound science. The blood evidence in the car, he said, didnt even match the prosecutions version of events. If there was so much bleeding that Betty Schirmer was loaded into this car after being bludgeoned with a crowbar, there should have been blood sprayed across the entire windshield. Reporter the defenses own pathologist told the jury that bettys head injuries were inconsistent with a blow from Something Like a crowbar and that betty had suffered internal injuries unique to a car wreck. Theres this deep injury to the right lung that can only be caused in a car accident. This is from a chest, the right side of the chest, hitting a dashboard. Theres no explanation for that by the commonwealth. Reporter as for the blood on bettys passenger seat, the defense maintained that it wasnt blood from a beating that occurred before she got in the car, as the prosecution charged. When you hear the testimony from the emts who extricated betty, there was a point in time when her head was clearly over that seat and there was a point in time when there was active bleeding. Reporter and the defense attorney assailed the prosecutions analysis of the blood in the garage. If a. B. Schirmer had, in fact, cleaned up after killing betty, he argued, the pastor would have done a much better job. Would he really have left blood drops in the garage for the world to see . You could have really cleaned these up if you wanted to clean these up. They werent cleaned up. Reporter whats more, he said, the prosecutions experts had exaggerated the amount of bettys blood found on the garage floor. They took luminol photos that were out of focus. Misrepresented to the jury what they had . Yes. Reporter and the defense attorney argued that investigators had been too quick to discount a. B. s explanation about betty getting a scratch from the woodpile. And he said it didnt matter that the woodpile examined by investigators was sitting on a newspaper dated after bettys death. They were simply looking at the wrong stack of wood. Mr. Schirmer told them to look in the wood line for the wood. They didnt do that. One of the troopers said that he did that, but if you look in the background of his own photo you can see a wood pile in the tree line. Reporter whats more, the defense attorney maintained that everyone was misconstruing a. B. s behavior at bettys bedside. A. B. s own daughters told the jury how it was their fathers work as a reverend that accounted for his demeanor that day. Hed been a pastor to many people whod gone through tragedy. He is so good at understanding how to comfort other people. Reporter they said their father was overcome. We walked with him through the grief. We walked with him through it. We saw him. Reporter and remember that photo of a. B. Smiling while he cooked scrapple just days after betty was gone . It was far from being evidence, the lawyer argued, of his indifference to bettys death. Thats a snapshot. Thats not a total picture of the whole time. No. Its taken out of context. Reporter in fact, betty and a. B. s marriage was strong, argued the defense. The relationship seemed good. And we were able to establish that there wasnt a problem. There were no allegations of violence in that marriage . No. Reporter but remember that postit note that a. B. Had written to betty, apologizing for pain he caused her, and hoping she could soon soar free . While the prosecutor said the postit showed that the marriage was on the brink, the defense attorney said they were rather the words of a caring husband. One who knew that his job was preventing his wife from seeing her family as much as shed like. A. B. Schirmers description of why he put that in there is simply, i wanted to express to her that i i had caused her hardship and and pain by having this job in reeders. Youre so far away from your children, your grandchildren. Reporter bottom line, argued the defense attorney, a. B. Loved his wife and had no reason to want her dead. I argue that there was no motive. Made no sense. We talking about a ton of money from insurance or something . Theres no life insurance. Reporter and the only thing a. B. Was guilty of, his lawyer said, were some all too human mistakes. But that, in his opinion, was not a motive for murder. He did a lot of things that werent appropriate in the case. It doesnt make him a murderer. Youll do the walk of shame. But it doesnt make him a killer. Is that the argument . Right. Reporter and perhaps the best person to convince the jury of that was none other than a. B. Schirmer himself. He did what defendants dont often do in criminal cases, took the stand in his own defense. The pastor turned his chair to face the jury, perhaps the last opportunity hed have to preach. He admitted to being a sinner, having an affair, but he denied killing his wife. His daughters watched. How do you think he told his story . I think he did well. He was sincere. He was truthful. Reporter bettys son, nate novack, was less convinced. I was full of anger. I i knew he wasnt telling the truth. Reporter truth, the finding of facts, that was the jurys job. The time was at hand to see what it thought. The verdict. But first the prosecution offers one final clue to prove the pastor was a killer. 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Make the holidays a treat with kelloggs Rice Krispies. Two words it heals. E different . How . With heat. Unlike creams and rubs that mask the pain, thermacare has patented heat cells that penetrate deep to increase circulation and accelerate healing. Lets review heat, plus relief, plus healing, equals thermacare. The proof that it heals is you. Reverend a. B. Schirmer stood accused of a brutal crime. Bludgeoning to death his second wife and staging a car accident to cover his tracks. In his closing argument, the prosecutor asked the jury to expose schirmer, the sinister minister. Hes kind of like a predator. And hell look at peoples vulnerabilities and hell manipulate them and hell get in their good graces and hell play with their heads. Reporter and the prosecutor offered the jurors one final clue he said was a death blow to the pastors story. Its something that mr. Schirmer forgot, being the typical male. Reporter look closely at the photos of the accident scene, the prosecutor said. His investigator Wendy Serfass had noticed something was missing, something betty would have had with her. Shes going to the hospital. What would she do . She gets dressed, grabs her purse. And then i stopped and i said, wait a minute. Theres no purse. Reporter it was a crucial prop, the prosecutor argued, that a. B. Had forgotten to throw in the car when he staged the car accident. But the defense attorney in his final statement told the jurors this was no fake scene. He urged the jurors not to punish the reverend because of his selfconfessed sins. Murder, he said, was not on that list. They needed to focus if they were willing on the forensics and not be brought into the idea that hes a bad person and therefore he did a bad thing. Reporter now it would be up to a panel of strangers to decide the pastors fate. While the jury deliberated, betty and jewels children waited. A. B. s stepson was convinced of his guilt. The evidence is just there. Its overwhelming. Reporter but a. B. s daughters were adamantly convinced of his innocence. They had lost their mother, jewel. Would they now lose their father, too . Whats happened to your family . Do you say why us . Do you have selfpity . No, i dont have selfpity. Gods good. Hes walked beside us through everything, regardless of what happened. Reporter a. B. s fiance cindy waited anxiously, too. So did the prosecutor. I never know what a jurys going to do. You always worry when a jurys out, right . Your line of work. Yes. Anything could happen. Absolutely. Reporter after an hour and a half of deliberation the jurors had reached a verdict. Bettys family took their seats in the courtroom. All huddled together in the seats. And we all had our heads down. Reporter then the verdict. Guilty of firstdegree murder. We immediately hugged. A few of us shouted out. And started crying. Reporter for bettys family the moment was bittersweet. Fresh waves of grief for bettys loss and their brotherinlaw a. B. s betrayal. He was a stranger to all of you. This was deceit from the beginning you think now. Yeah, i do. Sitting at your thanksgiving tables and stopping by and seeing the grandchildren. Mmhmm. Was all a front. I think it was. Sandy, what did a. B. Schirmer do to your family . I think he physically broke our hearts. And poor mom, you know, without a daughter. She really cared for that guy. And it had to turn out to be like this. Reporter on the other side of the courtroom a. B. s daughters could not believe it. It was another tragedy. To hear that. I just im still i was just so sad. Just cried. Devastated. I still hear it in my head replaying. The verdict. The verdict. And i dont agree with the decision. Regardless of what any jury says, he never hurt betty. How are you feeling right now . Reporter the pastors fiance cindy had no comment for reporters after the verdict. No reaction at all . Reporter she was Still Standing by her man. She still loved him, gave him 600 a month while hes been incarcerated. Reporter samantha musante says her relationship with her mother is strained. Samantha, how do you conjure up a new motherdaughter relationship . I love her. Its plain and simple. Shes family. You know, she could wrong me in every way possible but at the end of the day shes still my mother. You love her. Yeah. Reporter but the parent samantha is really living for these days is her late father. She says she dedicates every day to make him proud. Everything i do is for him now. You know. I hope hes proud of me. In the sense of getting justice . Yeah. Everything. Going to school. Being successful. Anything i wanted to do. He believed i could do it. Reporter samantha said she has found forgiveness for the man who could have become her new stepdad. But bettys son nate wasnt there yet. I dont think ill be able to say those words. Who is this guy, nate . The sinister minister. Presented himself as a pastor, pillar of the community. But we all know now there were skeletons in the closet and things going on behind the scenes. A. B. Schirmer was sentenced to life in prison without parole. His defense attorney appealed the verdict, arguing among other things that the death of a. B. s first wife, jewel, should never have been allowed to be a part of bettys trial. I think the admission of the first wife, circumstances surrounding the death of Jewel Schirmer, really did prejudice the case. Reporter the Pennsylvania Supreme Court denied his appeal. But as the former pastor was being taken off to jail, the Prosecutor Says he told deputies he felt strangely calm. And he couldnt understand why he felt so relaxed. And i mean, i know why he felt so relaxed. You know, hes been carrying this thing with him for many years. You know the old bromide the truth will set you free . Terrible secrets, and he felt that relief. Reporter forgiveness is the providence of the church. Justice is the duty of the state. In 2014, a. B. Schirmer, the disgraced pastor, received an additional 20 years to 40 years in prison for the murder of his first wife, jewel. He pleaded no contest but still insists he is innocent, saying he took the plea to spare his family the pain of a second trial. The following program contains material that originally aired at a later hour. Viewer discretion advised. Ten seconds five seconds [ laughter ] hello and welcome to the Rachel Maddow show. [ cheers and applause ] im Rachel Maddow, and in a crosspromotion with the new harry potter movie, my haircut will look like this forever. Joining us today, new republican speaker of the house, john boehner. Thank you for pronouncing it right. You can imagine people have a lot of fun with it